Author Topic: New Ariel Ace Motorcycles  (Read 707 times)

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AzCal Retred

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on: October 18, 2021, 03:53:32 am
If you thought the new BSA was going to be pricey...egads.   "Coming to a Jay Leno near you..."

The Ariel Ace Motorcycle is now in the Philippines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQJJlPlw8rw

The Ariel Atom & Nomad
https://www.arielna.com/
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Karl Childers

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Reply #1 on: October 18, 2021, 04:53:15 am
172 hp is pretty impressive, I like the one front end that they offer as it is reminiscent of the forks on a 40's Indian Chief,  the rest of the styling worked for me as well. They lost me at shaft drive but it wouldn't be a deal breaker if someone were to gift me with one.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 05:37:39 am by Karl Childers »


derottone

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Reply #2 on: October 18, 2021, 09:27:24 am
If you thought the new BSA was going to be pricey...egads.   "Coming to a Jay Leno near you..."

The Ariel Ace Motorcycle is now in the Philippines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQJJlPlw8rw

The Ariel Atom & Nomad
https://www.arielna.com/

Probably just a one off or a limited handcrafted series. The BSA's would be probably built in larger quantities on an assembly line once they developed the bike. Small difference, that delivers under normal circumstances bikes at lower cost and higher quality at the same time.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 09:30:01 am by derottone »
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #3 on: October 18, 2021, 10:20:06 am
And the New BSA's aren't going to be shaft drive or have 172 HP, or have a frame that takes 80 hours to hand-weld together & polish. Likely $50K of hand-rubbed motorcycle buys a lot of bragging rights. That Ariel is certainly a way to display your surplus cash. Speed costs money, how fast do you really want to go?

I'm finding that the 18-22 HP of my 350cc - 500cc Pre-Units is generally enough for me. There are plenty of long mountain downhill grades around here. If a guy felt lucky and thought the deer were all in their day beds, he could coax his Bullet up to "terminal velocity"; you'd probably be OK...  ::)
I suppose I could always pick up a lightly used Hayabusa if I felt the need for real speed, but I've read that it's hard to get that PO induced pucker mark out of the seat... :o ;D

There's a lot of really nice 500cc - 700cc machines out there for reasonable money already, like the Leoncino, CB500X, RE Interceptor, the V-Stroms, the Versys, etc.  Like you were saying earlier, what exactly will BSA be selling to the current buyers? Certainly not nostalgia, because to the young crowd BSA might as well existed in Civil War times. Us Geezers apparently want a period correct Gold Star replica, but with electric start, no vibration, no leaks, and no regular owner maintenance regimen. To sell performance BSA would have to go racing and win, nothing cheap about that at the factory level. That could take years and tens of millions of dollars.

I'm starting to think Axman88's right on the money - Mahindra's had second thoughts and is trying to peddle the name to a new owner. In over a year nobody's seen any actual hardware or heard anything from BSA-Mahindra. Maybe Mahindra needs to take a page out of the 3-wheel car "maker" Elio's playbook and get cash up front from prospective buyers. Mahindra already has "artists concept" drawings and maybe even a test mule, which is about what Elio has done in 10 years to justify those cash deposits.
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derottone

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Reply #4 on: October 18, 2021, 04:48:58 pm
Ah, 172 hp, shaftdrive, whatever you wish, cost nothing if you have some volumes to sell. Anything below 100hp can be considered a joke those days anyway.

The real issue is folks who believe to be entitled to tell everyone what to do, what to sell and most importantly cash in on any human activity. It's the cowboys who exterminated the Indians, who to hell gave those f@#ing morrons guns. The money man.
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axman88

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Reply #5 on: October 18, 2021, 05:21:36 pm

There's a lot of really nice 500cc - 700cc machines out there for reasonable money already, like the Leoncino, CB500X, RE Interceptor, the V-Stroms, the Versys, etc.  Like you were saying earlier, what exactly will BSA be selling to the current buyers? Certainly not nostalgia, because to the young crowd BSA might as well existed in Civil War times. Us Geezers apparently want a period correct Gold Star replica, but with electric start, no vibration, no leaks, and no regular owner maintenance regimen.
Is there supposed to be a some connection between this trellis framed monster and the products of the company that made the Square Four?

Speaking of period half liter machines, did you notice this product from QJ motors?  https://motor.qjmotor.com/ProDetail/QJ500-8A

Zhejiang Qianjiang Motorcycle Co., Ltd. is the company that Harley Davidson supposedly partnered with for development of the proposed new 300cc Harley for the asian market. 

This QJ500-8A looks kinda familiar, an air cooled EFI long stroke single, 86 x 90 cc, TCI ignition, F & R disks, 450 lbs.  25 HP at 5500 rpm looks about right, I wonder what that "60 kw @ 11,000 rpm maximum power" spec. is about.  Similarly, why put a tachometer with a red 10 on this machine?  They must have been leftovers from another model.


cyrusb

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Reply #6 on: October 18, 2021, 06:38:13 pm
Is there supposed to be a some connection between this trellis framed monster and the products of the company that made the Square Four?

Speaking of period half liter machines, did you notice this product from QJ motors?  https://motor.qjmotor.com/ProDetail/QJ500-8A

Zhejiang Qianjiang Motorcycle Co., Ltd. is the company that Harley Davidson supposedly partnered with for development of the proposed new 300cc Harley for the asian market. 

This QJ500-8A looks kinda familiar, an air cooled EFI long stroke single, 86 x 90 cc, TCI ignition, F & R disks, 450 lbs.  25 HP at 5500 rpm looks about right, I wonder what that "60 kw @ 11,000 rpm maximum power" spec. is about.  Similarly, why put a tachometer with a red 10 on this machine?  They must have been leftovers from another model.
The product description for the QJ500-8A is hysterical! Classic China  ;D
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derottone

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Reply #7 on: October 18, 2021, 06:58:11 pm
The product description for the QJ500-8A is hysterical! Classic China  ;D

The 60kW come from the Panigale lookalike it seems.

https://motor.qjmotor.com/ProDetail/QJ600GS-3B
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #8 on: October 18, 2021, 07:58:23 pm
Axman88 @ #5: 6 speed gearbox? A 10,000 RPM redline? Maybe Qianjiang has a source for boron fiber con rods?  :o 8)

What a machine - the UCE that should have been. I wonder if it'll make it to India? There'll be tears in Madras if it does.
Probably you have to buy one in Hongkong, Macao or Hainan & ship it home in pieces. I'd have one if it came here.
It kinda looks like a "Big Boy" Meteor competitor. If it really has a 6-speed transmission, that's awesome. I haven't found a price yet.  - ACR -

https://bikespeci.blogspot.com/2021/04/qjmotor-qj500-8a-price-photos-millage.html

QJ500-8A - CLASSIC RETRO
500cc Single Cylinder Air-Cooled Engine(19.0kW/55000rpm, 40.0N·m/4000rpm)" Classic Retro Timeless Design- 90-degree Upright Engine, Round Headlight, Round Meter, Double Seat, and Vintage Fuel Tank.
Efficient Braking System: Front - Ø 300mm Disc with 2-Pot Caliper / Rear - Ø 240mm Disc with single pot Caliper.
Displacement ; 530CC
Fuel tank capacity ; 15.5L
TECHNICAL DATA
DIMENSIONS
L x W x H (mm)   2170 x 820 x 1120
Wheel Base (mm)   1440
Seat Height (mm)   800
Ground Clearance(mm)   155
Curb Weight(kg)   205
FRAME
Type   Cradle/Steel
Front Suspension / Travel (mm)   Telescopic 120
Rear Suspension / Travel ( mm)   Unit Swing 60
Front Tyre / Type   100/90-19 Tubeless
Rear Tyre / Type   130/80-18 Tubeless
Front Brake (mm)   Hydraulic Disk Ø 300
Rear Brake (mm)   Hydraulic Disk Ø 240
Fuel Capacity (L)   15.5
ENGINE
Type   4-Stroke
Cooling System   Air-Cooled
Cylinder Arrangement   Single Cylinder
Valve Train   SOHC 2V
Bore x Stroke (mm)   86.0 x 90.0
Displacement (cc)   530
Compression Ratio   8.5 : 1
Maximum Horsepower (kW/rpm)   19.0/ 5500
Maximum Torque (Nm/rpm)   40.0/ 4000
Fuel System   EFI
Lubrication System   Forced and Splash
DRIVE & ELECTRICAL
Clutch   Manual,Multiplate Wet Cluch
Transmission   Chain
Gear Shift Pattern   1-N-2-3-4-5-6
Ignition System   TCI
Starting System   Electric
A trifecta of Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


derottone

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Reply #9 on: October 18, 2021, 08:19:11 pm
...
To sell performance BSA would have to go racing and win, nothing cheap about that at the factory level. That could take years and tens of millions of dollars.
....

Every racing is subject of regs and rules so that fair play can exist and is fun to watch...

RE 650 racing class apparently already exists...

https://youtu.be/gb80Ad8hkkQ

Who says there could not be a 500cc singles class with regs like - aircooled, no electronic driver aids. Might be affordable too...
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 08:21:22 pm by derottone »
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cyrusb

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Reply #10 on: October 18, 2021, 09:52:07 pm
Every racing is subject of regs and rules so that fair play can exist and is fun to watch...

RE 650 racing class apparently already exists...

https://youtu.be/gb80Ad8hkkQ

Who says there could not be a 500cc singles class with regs like - aircooled, no electronic driver aids. Might be affordable too...
I just watched the whole race. Very nice. The bikes didn't appear to be a single spec. I thought they would be. They all had a chin spoiler that kinda looked like a catch pan however. Anyway, I will watch that whole series. I think anything that shows the merit of weightloss to a woman is stellar. ;D
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axman88

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Reply #11 on: October 18, 2021, 10:30:26 pm
Axman88 @ #5: 6 speed gearbox? A 10,000 RPM redline? Maybe Qianjiang has a source for boron fiber con rods?  :o 8)

What a machine - the UCE that should have been. I wonder if it'll make it to India? There'll be tears in Madras if it does.
Probably you have to buy one in Hongkong, Macao or Hainan & ship it home in pieces. I'd have one if it came here.
It kinda looks like a "Big Boy" Meteor competitor. If it really has a 6-speed transmission, that's awesome. I haven't found a price yet.  - ACR -

On further investigation it looks like this is going to be the big brother of the Benelli Imperiale 400.  Qianjang stole their thunder.

https://indianautosblog.com/2021-benelli-imperiale-530-design-leaked-via-patent-images-p320278

That means it should be very much available in India, and in the UK also.  Since we do have Benelli dealerships here in the USA, although we were never offered the Imperiale 400, perhaps one could persuade a dealer to special order one of these for him.  Unfortunately, since the 400 was UK priced at the equivalent of around $5100, and allowing a conservative 20% premium for the bigger machine, this suggests that US pricing would be upwards of $6100.  UCE 500s didn't do very well at pricing lower than this when they were plentiful.

I, for one, like a tall saddle, something this machine, at 800mm (31.5"), definitely has.  I think Cyrus is correct in identifying the copy/paste mistake origin of the 60kw spec.  Likely the tach. is a preliminary fitment, one would think that the ECU has a built in rev limiter. 

I think this Benelli / QJ news does bode well for the re-introduction of the Classic 500 with the blown-out "J" OHC engine though.  If I attend the upcoming November Motorcycle Monday event, and I see my mystery contact on his oft-borrowed Conti. 650, I'll rub his nose on the Benelli BJ500 and see what his response is.


GlennF

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Reply #12 on: October 19, 2021, 12:55:04 am
For some reason vintage Ariels - at least in Australia - are very affordable.

Personally I would go for something like this one over a modern remake any day ...
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/1949-ariel-red-hunter-vh500/SSE-AD-6847413/?Cr=0





cyrusb

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Reply #13 on: October 19, 2021, 01:30:02 am
For some reason vintage Ariels - at least in Australia - are very affordable.

Personally I would go for something like this one over a modern remake any day ...
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/1949-ariel-red-hunter-vh500/SSE-AD-6847413/?Cr=0
Worth every Penney. Beautiful.
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #14 on: October 19, 2021, 06:12:22 am
Here's the comment from that affordable $12K Ariel ad:
Comment
This bike was my fathers.  It has not been started in over ten years but was in running order.
My father knew everything about vintage bikes but unfortunately I know comparatively little.
It is a wonderful keepsake but I cannot keep it forever.  It should be brought back to life and enjoyed by someone again.
I do not know anything about the history of this bike only that my father was careful when he selected a bike to own and restore.  As you can tell from the photos this bike is only partly restored.
There are a few spare bits and pieces that go with the bike as well.
I inserted the numbers on the odometer but of course have no idea how far it has travelled. Whatever work my father did to the motor it would only have a few miles on it as he never took it out of the street.


So "Show me the MONEY!", at least $12K's worth...although I know nothing about it...

The moral of the story is to sell on all your "treasures" before you shuffle off as the offspring generally neither want nor care about them. If you want to see your labor appreciated, you'll have to find that guy yourself. 

A trifecta of Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.