[mtrue77]

I think I've overcome my worries about checking the oil.  Thank you, all of you, for the guidance and advice.  Also, I've been avoiding the electric start.  I think I've got the hang of all the cold engine, pre-start routine.

I thought I'd roll through bike night this evening for a few minutes to show off to all the Harley riders parked there.  Maybe even shut down, and then kick-start before leaving.

So, I thought I'd start up, and check the oil.  Went through the routine, and then one serious kick, and it fired up.  After a minute I eased off on the choke, gave a little light throttle, and everything was good.  Idled for 3 or 4 minutes, shut down, and then checked the oil.  All good.

I took 10 or 15 minutes to do some minor yard work, and then tried to restart.  Nothing.  Not even one sputter.  Kept at it.  After a while, I got a towel to wipe the sweat splatter off the tank.

So, I tried the electric start just to see what would happen.  All I got was a weaker version of that sound you get when your car battery is just about dead.  No click-click-click, but a weak hum.   By the way, it's always on the Battery Tender when its in the shed.  I thought I'd remove the spark plug for sniff, and found that it was only finger tight.  Fixed that.

I opened the battery cover not really knowing what to look for.  It's been  long time.  I got a pair of pliers, and pulled off the six little plugs.  Couldn't really see anything, but lacking any better ideas, I thought, "maybe i should add water."  I have a tiny funnel from HF, so I poured in some water from my bottle.  It was then that I realized the front of the battery is somewhat translucent.  So, I brought the water level up from near the bottom in all the cells, closed every thing back up, reattached the Battery Tender, and came inside.  I'll let it sit for a while, or maybe until tomorrow, and then try again.

If I need a new battery, do I have to go through Hitchcock, or will something from any old motorcycle shop do?  Or Amazon?  And do people just use maintenance-free batteries, now?

[axman88]

I'm old fashioned I guess, I prefer the old fashioned wet battery, but I always buy Yuasa, which I feel is good quality at good value.

I buy them online, shipped dry, add my own acid from a box of sulfuric I bought decades ago.

And I would never "leave it on the tender all the time" like some guys do, that's just asking for a battery boiled dry, in my opinion.  Tenders are good but not perfect.  I check the voltage every few weeks, when it gets down to around 12.3, I put it on the trickle for a couple rainy days, till it comes up to full charge, then take it off the charger for a few weeks.  They like the attention.

Each battery has it's own voltage profile, depending on age, construction and various factors.  I get to know each one, and give it a little attention, now and then.

[AzCal Retred]

Yuasa makes a great product. Walmart has good deals on batteries too, it just needs to fit the hole and have adequate amperage. There are some great trickle chargers out now with smart voodoo electronics to prevent overcharging. But as Axman88 says, maybe not the best idea to have it hooked up continuously. My ES350 came with a Yuasa YB14L-A2 that was at the end of its span, but still works OK for kick starting. If I was planning on using the ES much, I'd likely invest in the biggest lithium battery I could find to keep the cranking amps up, but you are talking maybe +$200 vs. $50 for a functional Walmart lead-acid unit. My starter draws about 35 amps when being used, so the biggest CCA you can stuff in there the better. One thing to be aware of is proper shielding for the (+) terminal. Make or buy a stout non-conductive cover. My best find so far was a 1/2" PVC slip type pipe cap. A notch for the cables, a bit of silicone glue to keep it in place and any worries about wayward keys, change or tools was a thing of the past.

Check the charging voltage. Both of my IB Bullets Reg/Rec units seem to like to charge at 16V, which will use up battery water, so you need to be aware of that. My solution on my kick-start machines was to use an 18V lithium tool battery that doesn't care about a 16V charge rate. Not a workable fix for an ES machine though.

[mtrue77]

Being somewhat impatient, I just went out to the shed.  After five or six vigorous kicks, I got the engine running.  Here's a picture of the battery I have.  It was installed by the guys I bought the motorcycle from.  Looks like it's still available at one of my local stores. 

I think Battery Tender may have become generic, like Kleenex.  What I have (Battery Tender), is supposed to sophisticated enough to prevent over charging.  Not sure if it can prevent water from bubbling away.  Anyway, I'll take your advice and keep a closer watch.

[AzCal Retred]

Walmart carries this one, $40:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/YB14L-A2-12V-12Ah-Battery-for-Moto-Guzzi-750-V7-Classic-2009-2012/194608124?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1082&&adid=22222222227051459160&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=390737317561&wl4=aud-1308651922056:pla-827911289936&wl5=1013562&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112561763&wl11=online&wl12=194608124&veh=sem&gclid=CjwKCAjwmK6IBhBqEiwAocMc8tfNeWxHjCJMEMW-mkiwmgM_qORMI15qBtjex6rmlTyHjhBrTY7OVRoCTJsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Here's a lithium for under $120:
https://www.bigtimebattery.com/store/Lithium-Motorcycle-Battery-for-YTX14-BS.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwmK6IBhBqEiwAocMc8oFXvgjUZWd6FkXzE8B8JuSjzGhg6GOWJw-l1miEEsSz_KGAsH68nBoCBYQQAvD_BwE

Battery Tender is a good brand, just check from time to time. I'd likely disconnect the (+) pole for long term. Battery water losses can also be at least partially from evaporation, but most will be from electrolysis. Lithium skips that whole dog & pony show. Let it rot all winter, pump it up in the spring. No drama. Not a real issue for me, as "winter" generally has 50F days, so riding never really stops, at least below 2,500'...

[Paul W]

I’ve had bad experiences with these so called smart chargers over the years. The first one I bought resulted in a completely dry battery. The second one was far worse. Last winter I had it connected to my Honda 750, which was behind my Bullet in the garage. The mains extension cable was draped over my Bullet and the charger sitting on the Honda seat. The Honda was under a heavy cotton cover with the charger leads going to the quick connect plug on its battery. I wanted to ride the Honda and needed to disconnect the mains lead, which I did. I then wheeled the Bullet outside the garage. I turned back to the Honda to see smoke and flames rising!

The charger wiring was on fire all the way back to the battery and it was just taking a hold of the cotton cover over the bike! I was able to knock away the wiring, which was glowing red hot, using a large screwdriver and thankfully having broken the circuit the flames went out very quickly.

Another few seconds and I might have lost the bike and the entire contents of my garage, including my Liege sports/trials car.

Lesson learned. I can only assume that having looked at the remains of the charger that reverse current protection had failed and the battery did what batteries do. I bought a far more sophisticated charger and remove the battery from the Honda when it’s not being used and charge it on the bench.

[Adrian II]

My old Electra-X traditional lead acid batteries would also deteriorate over time to the point where kickstarting was still possible but the electric start wouldn't.

Swapped to a sealed AGM lead acid MotoBatt MBTX14AU, much better.

A.

[tooseevee]

I think I've overcome my worries about checking the oil.  Thank you, all of you, for the guidance and advice.  Also, I've been avoiding the electric start.  I think I've got the hang of all the cold engine, pre-start routine.

I thought I'd roll through bike night this evening for a few minutes to show off to all the Harley riders parked there.  Maybe even shut down, and then kick-start before leaving.

So, I thought I'd start up, and check the oil.  Went through the routine, and then one serious kick, and it fired up.  After a minute I eased off on the choke, gave a little light throttle, and everything was good.  Idled for 3 or 4 minutes, shut down, and then checked the oil.  All good.

I took 10 or 15 minutes to do some minor yard work, and then tried to restart.  Nothing.  Not even one sputter.  Kept at it.  After a while, I got a towel to wipe the sweat splatter off the tank.

So, I tried the electric start just to see what would happen.  All I got was a weaker version of that sound you get when your car battery is just about dead.  No click-click-click, but a weak hum.   By the way, it's always on the Battery Tender when its in the shed.  I thought I'd remove the spark plug for sniff, and found that it was only finger tight.  Fixed that.

I opened the battery cover not really knowing what to look for.  It's been  long time.  I got a pair of pliers, and pulled off the six little plugs.  Couldn't really see anything, but lacking any better ideas, I thought, "maybe i should add water."  I have a tiny funnel from HF, so I poured in some water from my bottle.  It was then that I realized the front of the battery is somewhat translucent.  So, I brought the water level up from near the bottom in all the cells, closed every thing back up, reattached the Battery Tender, and came inside.  I'll let it sit for a while, or maybe until tomorrow, and then try again.

If I need a new battery, do I have to go through Hitchcock, or will something from any old motorcycle shop do?  Or Amazon?  And do people just use maintenance-free batteries, now?

           If you've just now discovered that that wet cell battery has been bone dry the whole time you've had it then it's been NFG and on the way out for a long time. My opinion would be that the next one you get should be a sealed, no maintenance, AGM. I've had excellent luck with Motobatts since around 2000 when I got away from UASA wet cells which I've used since the late '70s I think. Interstate was also a really good battery back in the day. Don't know about  now. 

         Why anybody would still want to use wet cell, lead acid batteries is beyond me (and I'm a dinosaur ). You can order a way better AGM online with exactly the same dimensions as the one you've got. Just do some homework. The information is all there about classes of batteries, power ratings, dimensions etc., etc., etc.. And the new style terminals are way better also.

             As far as tenders go, I've had perfect luck with NOCO Genius since around 2004. Just ordered my 3rd or 4th one a few weeks ago for "something I picked up". Tenders are not "battery chargers" as we old dinosaurs were used to. They won't boil your battery dry and they shut off when the battery is at 100%. I've never had one "heat up" or catch on fire. If something catches on fire something was basically wrong. They also sense whether it's 6 or 12 and what type internals the battery has and will tell you by blinking light codes if there is "something wrong". Of course, there are probably crap ones out there like in everything else nowadays. NOCO is a well established company and has tenders (and other stuff) in all price ranges from $30 to 100s of dollars. 

         BTW I also never really trusted "smart chargers", but tenders aren't like the old "smart chargers". They're tenders. Different animal.

        Your tender had no chance of ever bringing that bone dry battery back to life. (especially right after you had to fill it with fresh water). It had only so many startups left in it and you used the last ones to check your oil. It could easily have gone dead when you tried your show off start at the diner. Luckily for you it happened at home.  OR you might have used the ES and that bone-dry battery might have grenaded your sprag.

         If you get a new, maintenance free battery and check out your charging system (all you need is a cheap multi-meter) you should have no problem kicking it to life anywhere you go. Just put a really good tender on it when you park it because if you only take short trips, with a lot of stops and starts, the battery will go down over time.

         And don't use the electric start without a 100% good battery. Low voltage cranking is the worst thing & WILL sooner or later be what frags your sprag. 

           

[tooseevee]

Being somewhat impatient, I just went out to the shed.  After five or six vigorous kicks, I got the engine running.  Here's a picture of the battery I have.  It was installed by the guys I bought the motorcycle from.  Looks like it's still available at one of my local stores. 

I think Battery Tender may have become generic, like Kleenex.  What I have (Battery Tender), is supposed to sophisticated enough to prevent over charging.  Not sure if it can prevent water from bubbling away.  Anyway, I'll take your advice and keep a closer watch.

            A good tender won't boil your battery,

[axman88]

         Why anybody would still want to use wet cell, lead acid batteries is beyond me

             As far as tenders go, I've had perfect luck with NOCO Genius since around 2004. Just ordered my 3rd or 4th one a few weeks ago for "something I picked up". Tenders are not "battery chargers" as we old dinosaurs were used to. They won't boil your battery dry and they shut off when the battery is at 100%. I've never had one "heat up" or catch on fire. If something catches on fire something was basically wrong. They also sense whether it's 6 or 12 and what type internals the battery has and will tell you by blinking light codes if there is "something wrong". Of course, there are probably crap ones out there like in everything else nowadays. NOCO is a well established company and has tenders (and other stuff) in all price ranges from $30 to 100s of dollars. 

I prefer wet cells because when they start to go bad, there's still a few tricks (that seldom but sometimes work), one can do to bring them back.  With a sealed battery, there's nothing that can be done.  A neglected wet cell still has a chance, while a neglected AGM is a brick.

I have a few issues with tenders, besides the fact that there is huge variation offered under that generic term.
     -  The worst of them are trickle chargers and will continue to cook a battery.  There's no industry restriction or standardization of the marketing names that are given to devices.
     -  Very few indeed have user settable thresholds and are usually set for compromise thresholds.  An AGM and a wet cell have different characteristic voltage / charge curves and different battery models within a type are also different.  Fully charged for an AGM may mean overcharged for a wet cell, and the smart charger set up for wet will not fully charge an AGM.  If I could set the thresholds, I'd be much happier, but generally these gadgets only have blinky idiot lights.  My dumb charger shows me both voltage and current.
     -  The difference between a good smart charger and a bad one, is the failure of some 29 cent component on a dense PC board.  I've repaired and added features to several dumb chargers over the years.  Smart chargers are not repairable, they work great until they don't.  Will the idiot lights let you know that they stopped working correctly?
     -  The smart chargers, by design, can't be used for brute force battery recovery tactics.  You need a dumb charger to recover neglected batteries, including lithium.
     -   The cost.  Dumb chargers are cheap at flea markets and garage sales.  Knowledge is free at the library.

I won't argue with your success in using smart chargers, but others have certainly had bad experiences.  Because often those folks relied on their charger to be smart for them, they may not know what really happened, only that their battery went bad.  Battery condition and life will depend on lots of factors including charging system characteristics, and how and where a person rides.  No two situations may be identical.

Certainly each have their place, but I personally prefer smart user / dumb charger.   Regardless of what one uses for auxiliary charging, I think it's "smart" to learn one's battery.  There's a huge difference in the state of charge between seeing 12.8 and seeing 12.2 on the voltmeter that plugs into my car's cigarette lighter.   https://www.ebay.com/itm/384244085618   I know what each means and respond accordingly.

[mtrue77]

Thank you, everyone, for your input.  I wouldn't want you to think I'm in love with you, but I have to say that the advice on this forum, regardless of subject, is priceless. 

[mtrue77]

Pictures

[Nitrowing]

I use a timer to supply the charger and have it set to turn on for 1 hour a day

[mtrue77]

I followed AzCal's link to Bigtime Battery having decided to go with the lithium battery.  After speaking to a couple people there, it seemed like the dimensions weren't right.  So, I bought an AGM battery from them that seems like a better fit.  A couple hours later, I had an email confirming shipment.  $55.

By the way, I went out to the shed for a couple more photos.  The Battery Tender is on the Bullet.  The Duracell is on the Janus.  The Duracell senses 6v or 12v battery, and also has a selector for the Lithium ion battery.

[AzCal Retred]

Charger electronics are pretty amazing anymore. Glad a new battery is winging it's way towards you - it'll save a lot of cursing...