Author Topic: 2005 ES 5 speed Surging/missing at higher speeds  (Read 2176 times)

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hortoncode3

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on: May 24, 2020, 08:26:42 pm
A new development: see above. Runs great bee bopping town. At speeds above 50 mph it begins to surge or just plain poop out. Doesn’t have any problems with RPMs on the higher end with no load.  I haven’t disassembled the Mikcarb 28 yet. Guessing that’s an option to see if bits o crap are in there. The chain case might be overfilled a bit but I can’t imagine that would make the clutch slip and even if it did why wouldn’t it do it lowe spears pulling hard? Opinions?


cyrusb

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Reply #1 on: May 24, 2020, 08:49:02 pm
Last gear is when there is the most load on everything. so the clutch suffers the most then. Im not sure if too much oil would cause it to slip, but who knows? And maybe you could give the carb a cursory cleaning. B.T.W my 05 ran the best with the Micarb in the dustbin. ;)
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ace.cafe

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Reply #2 on: May 24, 2020, 09:23:51 pm
What is your jetting?
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hortoncode3

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Reply #3 on: May 24, 2020, 09:50:57 pm
I couldn’t say about the jetting I really haven’t had it apart. I took off the fuel bowl when I bought it it was clean as a whistle so I don’t know if anyone’s fooled with it or not. I know once it had an adequate flow of gasoline to the carburetor it started on the first kick. Someone had put an in-line filter on it which was restricting flow. I pulled the petcock and cleaned what little there was in the filter and I suppose it could be fouled with a little rust I’ll take it out tomorrow and have a look. Up until now has run without any problems. My finger is going to point towards the carburetor and till I know that I’m not having a spark availability problem. I have had zero problems with the clutch but I didn’t drive it very much before I changed the fluid. I was advised to add a little extra and perhaps a little extra is too much. I do know in lower gears with a full throttle it does not slip.


cyrusb

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Reply #4 on: May 24, 2020, 10:08:11 pm
If it is missing ignition style, check the bullet connector from you point plate. Mine was awash with solder that was corroded and causing a miss.Follow the wire from your point plate. You still have points right?
2005E Fixed and or Replaced: ignition, fenders,chainguard,wires,carb,headlight,seat,tailight,sprockets,chain,shock springs,fork springs, exhaust system, horn,shifter,clutch arm, trafficators,crankcase vent.


blasphemous

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Reply #5 on: May 24, 2020, 10:24:18 pm
If it is missing ignition style, check the bullet connector from you point plate. Mine was awash with solder that was corroded and causing a miss.Follow the wire from your point plate. You still have points right?

second, cyrusb, a similar thing happened with me where it would jerk in higher gear, just had to adjust the plate


ddavidv

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Reply #6 on: May 24, 2020, 11:24:43 pm
If the clutch is slipping the revs will increase relative to your speed.
If the thing is bee-bopping along and stumbles like it may be getting low on fuel that is likely a fuel delivery problem. I had this same circumstance happen to me. Started for no real reason but while cruising along giving it a good amount of throttle it would lose a bit of power...but never stop running. Came and went.

I suspected a particulate of dirt got into the carb as I'm not running a fuel filter. Dropped the bowl off the bottom, cleaned it, blew some cleaner through the jets and orifices and put it back together. Has run fine since.
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cyrusb

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Reply #7 on: May 24, 2020, 11:55:20 pm
just as an aside , if you have a slipping clutch make sure you have some free play in the mechanism. That is, you should have some movement before you feel the clutch disengage . You new guys have the Snidal manual?
2005E Fixed and or Replaced: ignition, fenders,chainguard,wires,carb,headlight,seat,tailight,sprockets,chain,shock springs,fork springs, exhaust system, horn,shifter,clutch arm, trafficators,crankcase vent.


Bilgemaster

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Reply #8 on: May 25, 2020, 01:24:43 am
After such a long coma you just gotta expect some post-resurrection issues...possibly a combination of things, some of which may just sort themselves out with more and gentle use. You describe "surging and plain pooping out" in top gear. A few more details are needed:

  • By "surging", do you mean the engine speeds up, but with no increase in road speed? That could be clutch slippage, as mentioned earlier. If that seems to be the case, precisely which lube and roughly how much of it is now in the primary case? The level at that fluid level screw hole, located low and a bit to the left on the outer case, is said to be about 420ml when on the center stand, but in keeping with a service advisory sent out long ago by Enfield to dealerships to better bathe that troublesome starter sprag stuff, 800ml was recommended instead. My sprag's long gone, but I still use about 600ml or so of that Type F ATF in there with no complaints. (I also use it in my forks--200ml in each). I believe conventional 15W-40 was recommended in the User Manual, but stay away from ANY synthetic. They're just TOO slippery, as is the 15W-50 recommended for motor oil elsewhere in the engine. If there is what you think may be clutch slippage, it couldn't hurt to pull off that outer primary case, give the innards a good swabbing, and also check the primary drive chain tension while you're in there. Or, unless you've got the wrong lube in there, you could try just pulling the level plug, let it settle down to 420ml, and see if that improves matters. YouTuber Hoohoohoblin has a couple of nice little videos about tending to the primary drive if you're interested. His is a '90s model, but the principle's the same.
     
  • As for "pooping out", with such a fresh resurrection as yours, before anything else I would most highly suspect some fuel system or carb cloggery is afoot. A proper removal, tear down and a VERY thorough cleaning of the carb is probably advised...maybe even a couple, since that often seems to be what it takes. I believe you mentioned an inline filter. That, or its filter element if yours one of those fancy old school screw-together glass ones, should be replaced. A clogged inline filter doesn't always necessarily LOOK clogged. Your fuel tank could have lots of sediment...mostly rust. If you have not already done so, pulling it off and giving it a good rinse couldn't hurt...If it's really grungy in there, such cloggery might be a chronic though treatable condition. You can do the whole strip and seal thing to the tank with a variety of potions, or instead maybe just get away with slapping a little magnet onto the bottom of the tank underneath the logo. This will tend to capture any rustlets swimming by for easy rinsing out from time to time later when the magnet's removed, keeping them well out of your fuel line and carb to begin with so they can do no mischief. I'd also recommend regular dashes of Marvel Mystery Oil, an ounce or two with each tankful, to help gently ease the other cruds out. SeaFoam's another option that's tad more aggressive, Techron and Berryman's Chemtool B-12 even more so. Mine's on a steady diet of a dash of MMO in its non-ethanol fuel, with a dash of SeaFoam every now and then, but all these are available at Walmart.

Anyhow, such little teething issues are to be expected with your bike in the coming months as you blow out the cobwebs. The more you get her out there, very gently at first, the happier and sweeter-running she'll become.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 01:54:45 am by Bilgemaster »
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Seipgam

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Reply #9 on: May 25, 2020, 10:21:11 am
Sounds like fuel starvation.
Is the fuel cap breathing ok? that could give surging issues.
Kinked fuel lines?
As Ace suggest check what jetting you have, and give the carb a good clean.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #10 on: May 25, 2020, 12:23:54 pm
You should know what jets are in there.
Unknown jetting could be a recipe for disaster.
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hortoncode3

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Reply #11 on: May 25, 2020, 12:53:43 pm
After such a long coma you just gotta expect some post-resurrection issues...possibly a combination of things, some of which may just sort themselves out with more and gentle use. You describe "surging and plain pooping out" in top gear. A few more details are needed:

  • By "surging", do you mean the engine speeds up, but with no increase in road speed? That could be clutch slippage, as mentioned earlier. If that seems to be the case, precisely which lube and roughly how much of it is now in the primary case? The level at that fluid level screw hole, located low and a bit to the left on the outer case, is said to be about 420ml when on the center stand, but in keeping with a service advisory sent out long ago by Enfield to dealerships to better bathe that troublesome starter sprag stuff, 800ml was recommended instead. My sprag's long gone, but I still use about 600ml or so of that Type F ATF in there with no complaints. (I also use it in my forks--200ml in each). I believe conventional 15W-40 was recommended in the User Manual, but stay away from ANY synthetic. They're just TOO slippery, as is the 15W-50 recommended for motor oil elsewhere in the engine. If there is what you think may be clutch slippage, it couldn't hurt to pull off that outer primary case, give the innards a good swabbing, and also check the primary drive chain tension while you're in there. Or, unless you've got the wrong lube in there, you could try just pulling the level plug, let it settle down to 420ml, and see if that improves matters. YouTuber Hoohoohoblin has a couple of nice little videos about tending to the primary drive if you're interested. His is a '90s model, but the principle's the same.
     
  • As for "pooping out", with such a fresh resurrection as yours, before anything else I would most highly suspect some fuel system or carb cloggery is afoot. A proper removal, tear down and a VERY thorough cleaning of the carb is probably advised...maybe even a couple, since that often seems to be what it takes. I believe you mentioned an inline filter. That, or its filter element if yours one of those fancy old school screw-together glass ones, should be replaced. A clogged inline filter doesn't always necessarily LOOK clogged. Your fuel tank could have lots of sediment...mostly rust. If you have not already done so, pulling it off and giving it a good rinse couldn't hurt...If it's really grungy in there, such cloggery might be a chronic though treatable condition. You can do the whole strip and seal thing to the tank with a variety of potions, or instead maybe just get away with slapping a little magnet onto the bottom of the tank underneath the logo. This will tend to capture any rustlets swimming by for easy rinsing out from time to time later when the magnet's removed, keeping them well out of your fuel line and carb to begin with so they can do no mischief. I'd also recommend regular dashes of Marvel Mystery Oil, an ounce or two with each tankful, to help gently ease the other cruds out. SeaFoam's another option that's tad more aggressive, Techron and Berryman's Chemtool B-12 even more so. Mine's on a steady diet of a dash of MMO in its non-ethanol fuel, with a dash of SeaFoam every now and then, but all these are available at Walmart.

Anyhow, such little teething issues are to be expected with your bike in the coming months as you blow out the cobwebs. The more you get her out there, very gently at first, the happier and sweeter-running she'll become.
Well it has been running just fine although I am questioning whether I’m getting all the power that I could. I’m just trying to run out some of the more obvious problems before I start getting specific. What’s happening is it seems to be like you’re snapping the switch on and off while you were going uphill while lugging. At lower speeds it plugs along just fine. I noticed it was starting to do it a little bit last week but obviously it’s gotten more pronounced . I suspect it’s probably a carburetor issue and that’s the simplest thing to tackle so far and then I’ll run it a bit and see if we’ve got it. Incidentally I added what you recommended to the chain case and I get a little leakage out the top I suspect around where the starter mounts. The starters Sprag has long since disintegrated and in any case the motor doesn’t work anyway. I feel no need to investigate.


hortoncode3

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Reply #12 on: May 25, 2020, 06:58:58 pm
You should know what jets are in there.
Unknown jetting could be a recipe for disaster.

The main jet is a 160. (the bike came to me that way) I realize the largest SHOULD only be 130. However this bike has NO airbox, just a K&W slip on filter. Up until now, and currently, the plug is nice and lightly toasted.  Only recently has high-speed performance been crap. I'm going to take a look at the point set and I've already pulled the carb and shot cleaner through it but honestly, there was nothing to clean. It's pristine. The high and low-speed jets look great and no crud anywhere. It still runs exactly the same.  BAH! lol


Adrian II

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Reply #13 on: May 25, 2020, 08:41:31 pm
NGK sparkplug?

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hortoncode3

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Reply #14 on: May 26, 2020, 12:58:13 pm
NGK plug, yup! Br6es. I have a pair of 8’s (new) that came with the bike But the six was doing fine. Nice and brown just the way I like it. I’m afraid to stick the eight in there, afraid it might be too hot.


ace.cafe

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Reply #15 on: May 26, 2020, 01:08:02 pm
NGK plug, yup! Br6es. I have a pair of 8’s (new) that came with the bike But the six was doing fine. Nice and brown just the way I like it. I’m afraid to stick the eight in there, afraid it might be too hot.
The 8 is a colder plug.
NGK gets colder as numbers go up.
The 8 is the correct plug for the bike.
You don't need the resister(r) type plug. There is already a suppression resister in the plug wire.
B8ES is fine.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 01:13:29 pm by ace.cafe »
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hortoncode3

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Reply #16 on: May 26, 2020, 02:53:18 pm
I'll give one a try. maybe I'll get the correct jetting too . I can't imagine why someone would stick a 160 in there


ace.cafe

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Reply #17 on: May 26, 2020, 04:58:37 pm
We have seen it all!
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