[Mistgreen63]

Im changing front and rear sprockets and rear chain. There has been some rtv on chaincase gasket and no sealant on clutch oil gasket. Original gaskets are rubber and new ones are green (dont know the material)from hitchcocks My bike is bullet 500 5-speed es 2007. Should i put sealant on both of the gaskets or will they seal without. Thank you in advance.

[Bilgemaster]

Still nothing but crickets, Huh? Well, below I've transcribed the relevant section from Pete Snidal's Bullet Service Manual  until other folks show up with their own suggestions from personal experience.

I've only ever had my 5-speed gearbox's outer cover off and simply reused the green gasket, which had stayed in place on the inner, with a very light smear of whatever high temp RTV gasket sealant was handy (probably this stuff: https://www.harborfreight.com/3-oz-rtv-silicone-black-90024.html, which I also use on my later style primary drive outer cover in addition to its big rubber O ring seal).

Personally, I'd like to get my hands on a tube of that Stag WellSeal Jointing Compound stuff to try that I often see first rate British restorer blokes using, but it's kinda hard to find for anything less than "stupid money", especially after shipping, here in the States.

Anyhow, here's what Snidal says. Note especially his penultimate paragraph, wherein he makes it clear how it's largely a matter of personal choice, like my decision to sometimes tear around wearing 6 inch gold lamé Cuban stilletto heels (which I believe I can pull off without looking "trashy")...


GASKETS AND SEALING

British Motorcycles have long been maligned as being sure-fire "stakers of their territories," and "road oilers." This is not necessarily true, there are many vintage British motorcycles on the road which leak minimal oil. Personally, I think how they got the reputation revolves around the fact that maintenance appeared simple enough that too many unskilled and semi-skilled "mechanics" had at them, and with their limited skills, put them together badly.

If you have puddles underneath your parking spot, or oil weeping along parts of your motorcycle in the windstream, you have a correctable problem. Careful cleaning, followed by monitoring the situation during operation, will reveal the source of the problem. Once found, you will likely find that tightening isn't enough - overtightening will never correct bad gaskets. Leaky seals, no matter how hard to get at, must be replaced to stop leakage. (If the seal is around a bearing, be sure to check the bearing for excess play at the same time - a loose bearing or bushing can allow the shaft to chew up the seal in short order - and in such cases is actually a "warning shot" that the bearing needs replacement.) There are a number of basic oil sealing methods on Enfields, depending on location.

    Lip-and-spring oil seals - seal around rotating shafts, such as the gearbox countershaft (drive) sprocket, clutch mainshaft, and ignition unit drive shaft,

    O-Rings - neoprene rings which fit into recesses on such shafts as the rocker shafts and such places as the carburetor flange(s) and pushrod tubes.

    Composition Gaskets - heavy-duty gaskets, for such places as the rocker boxes, primary cover, and inner gearbox cover. In such places as the gearbox cover, certain machining clearances may have allowed for the thickness of such gaskets, and thus they should always be used in re-assemly.

    Paper Gaskets - such places as the gearbox outer cover, timing cover.

Spring-And-Lip Seals, O-Rings
Gasket sealer is not necessary for O-Rings or Spring-And-Lip Seals - they should be assembled lubricated with fresh engine oil to facilitate their slipping into place properly, but no sealer is required around them.
Sealing Paper and Composition Gaskets
Over the years, there have been a number of approaches to gaskets and gasket sealing. In places where paper or composition gaskets are used, these may be aided in their sealing by various compounds being wiped on both sides of the gasket before installation. Such compounds as:

    Grease or Engine Oil

    Stay-Soft Gasket Compounds - such as:
        - (Aviation) Permatex III (TM)

        - Copperkote (TM) - Spray or Brush

        - Anti-Seize Compound (Copper type)


    Hardening Gasket Compounds
        - Permatex II(TM)

        - Hylomar (TM)

        - Yamabond(TM)

    RTV "Gasket Makers" - eg. Permatex Form-A-Gasket (TM)

In some cases, you can use the newer "Gasket Maker" gasket compounds, notably the RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanizing) Silicone - or even hardware-store "Bathtub Sealer" RTV silicone - this is good in high-heat applications, such as sealing push-in pipes into cylinder heads. These are sometimes used to seal gaskets, and sometimes used as substitutes for gaskets - ie, the assembly is done with no other gasket in place.

    CAUTION NOTE: RTV silicone must be used sparingly - even moreso than the others. Strings of RTV have been found plugging filter screens, oil pump check valves, rocker feeds, and other critical spots in engines. If using RTV, always anticipate the "squeeze" spreading it about the gasket face. Use sparingly, and leave some space on the inside face of the gasket surface - it's OK to have some squeeze outwards where you can wipe it off, but you have no way of knowing if it got inside, where it can break off and do some serious damage. Only experience mechanics should use RTV gasket-maker in engine spots - such as rocker covers and timing case.

First question is whether to use gaskets at all. In some spots, RTV Gasket Maker will be found to be completely adequate - with the reservations mentioned above. In others, you'll find you need to use the composition gasket, with or without an auxiliary sealer, such as one of the ones mentioned above. I've had good luck with copper-based gasket sealer in these cases - it has an added advantage that gaskets can be re-used, in most cases, many times.

Clean-Up And Subsequent Disassembly
A consideration is how difficult it will be to get it apart the next time. You could use JB-Weld(TM) as gasket sealer - but ONLY if you NEVER intend to take it apart again! (Obviously not a good choice; example only; don't try this at home!) And once it's apart, how much difficulty can be expected in removing the old gasket, and cleaning the parts up for reassembly?

With the older "cement" type gasket sealers, such as Permatex II (TM), you have to get it right the first time, since the gaskets can seldom if ever be reused - and often have to be scraped off the gasket surfaces when the system is next torn down. Similarly, many of the "perma-soft" sealers, such as "Aviation" Permatex (TM), also present a lot of cleanup problems. RTV and the copper-based sealers clean up easily. In all cases, gasket sealer wants to be used sparingly - you have to find the ideal level - too much can get in places and (often expensively) gum up the works; too little can be worse than none at all. If in doubt, be really sparing on the inside edge, concentrate what sealer you do use on the outside edge, and watch how much squishes out when you tighten it up. If it appears excessive, pull it back off and make sure you haven't left a mess inside where it can do damage. Experience will soon tell you what you need to know.

If, of course, you're assembling with engine oil - which doesn't really provide extra sealing, but aids the gasket in slipping into its proper place in the joint, there need be no consideration of polluting the internals.

What I Use
As stated earlier, there are as many convictions about what to use for gasket sealer as there will be "mechanics" at the bench-racing session. For the record, here's what has proven successful for your author over the years in the various places.

Element / Type of Gasket / Compound
   
Rocker Covers / Composition / Copper Anti-Seize Compound
Rocker Arm Shafts / Generic O-Rings / Engine Oil
Pushrod Tubes / Generic O-Rings / Engine Oil
Cylinder Head / Copper Gasket / Engine Oil
Primary Cover / None / RTV Gasket Maker
Timing Cover / None / RTV Gasket Maker
Gearbox Cover - Outer / None / RTV Gasket Maker
Gearbox Cover - Inner / Composition / Aviation Permatex
Fuel Taps - (If Leaky) / Teflon Plumber's Tape / Teflon Plumber's Tape
Fork Maintube Cap Screws / Composition / RTV Silicone

In most cases, these choices are completely arbitrary - I always take special care with gearbox inner covers, since I don't want to be doing them twice. There are other combinations that others use, which work equally well for them, but these are the choices I've narrowed down to over the years. Your mileage may vary.

These are the considerations in deciding how to seal your gaskets in the various assembly procedures. It takes a little experimentation and experience to decide what's best for you - but soon you'll have "your way," and you'll be able to take your place among the bench-racers as they get into arguments about which are "the only thing that works."

[Mistgreen63]

Thanks for the advice.

[AzCal Retred]

I tend to use grease on paper & composite gaskets. Grease generally precludes the gasket from vulcanizing to the soft aluminum, an issue when you have to scrape it off. My cylinder base gasket went back with grease and is fine. The head gasket goes on dry, but I did take the liberty of using anti-seize around the outside of the "spigot" entering the head casting. I'm hoping the anti-seize blocks the hard carbon build up there that made the head hard to remove last time.

I pulled my primary recently and went back with new gaskets. My primary doesn't leak, but the sealing surfaces were clean & smooth. One thing to remember is that these bikes aren't Hondas, so a bit of seepage isn't a panic situation. Silicone has a habit of making oil passage clogging BB's, so avoid it on the timing side gaskets & cylinder base gaskets. Permatex Motoseal & Yamabond are recommended there if plain grease isn't working for you. Don't risk plugging oil passages to "cure" a minor weep.

[Paul W]

My preferred method for gaskets is to stick them to the removable component with something like blue Hylomar, or even clear adhesive and grease the side in contact with the engine. This means that the next time the component is removed, the gasket should come cleanly away with it and may often be re-used. If the gasket needs changing, it’s usually easier to clean it off the removable component away from the engine, so nothing gets contaminated, especially something like a rocker cover, where scraping a gasket off the surface of the engine or where the fixing studs remain in place is a real chore. My own 350 Bullet Electra has the green composite chain case gasket rather than a rubber ring and the method works well. I’ve managed to re-use a gasket, especially useful seeing that those ones are large and quite expensive to replace.

[ddavidv]

This will probably wind up being like an oil thread, with everyone having a different opinion.

I generally apply things like transmission housing and timing cover gaskets dry. That's how the factory did it. If they are pesky to keep in place or there is an oil passage I often will apply a THIN bit of sealant to help the gasket stay in place and/or quell probable seepage. By thin I mean just the barest of coating possible.

I see these chaps using WellSeal on the videos I watch but we don't have it here. It looks very similar to a product called "Indian Head Shellac" which is sold by Permatex and is very inexpensive. It's quite useful to hold gaskets in place, is very thin and when I've had to remove gaskets it seems to release easily.

They key with any sealant is 'less is more'. If it squeezes out with anything more than a faint line visible when clamped you've used too much.

[tooseevee]

   All good advice there from Replies # 4, 5 & 6.

   The less the better. Never use RTV where you don't want to create "blobs" 

    Never use "stick forever unto the Ends of Time" stuff.

    I'll never forget carefully doing battle with the gasket remains on the '08's head & cylinder in 2014 and thinking, through my really sore hands, "What the Fu*k IS this stuff"!? They meant it to NEVER give up.

     I use mostly Quaker State Wheel Bearing Grease from a tub of it I bought (I'm pretty sure of this) back some time in the '70s. It's good for a LOT of things other than water pumps and wheel bearings. It's the Bag Balm of mechanical and house maintenance.