Author Topic: Harley Davidson  (Read 1196 times)

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AzCal Retred

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on: November 09, 2022, 10:15:08 pm
The Leoncino Trail is about $7K, HD would need to knock that down maybe $1K more to pull folks away from a RE 650 Interceptor.

https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/mid-size-500cc-harley-davidson-based-benelli-leoncino-spotted
MID-SIZE 500CC HARLEY-DAVIDSON BASED ON BENELLI LEONCINO SPOTTED; Ollie Barstow, Sun, 27 Mar 2022
A brand-new 500cc cruiser-style motorcycle wearing Harley-Davidson branding is spotted in what appears to be its latest project with Chinese firm QJ Motor
The twin-cylinder engine is thought to be that which started life in the Benelli Leoncino 500, the Italian marque being QJ Motors’ western arm. Assuming similar specifications, the Benelli at least offers 47.6hp at 8,500rpm, a tubular steel frame and a USD fork, while you’d need to play ‘spot the difference’ to differentiate from many of the Leoncino 500’s mechanicals.
Images purporting to show an unknown Harley-Davidson branded motorcycle with a 500cc engine have emerged after it was spotted popping up in a video posted by Chinese firm QJ Motor undergoing dyno testing.
The shots come as something of a surprise given Harley-Davidson’s other project in association with QJ Motor (Qianjiang) - the 338R roadster - has gone noticeably quiet since a pre-production model was spied in 2020, shortly before the Milwaukee firm underwent a major boardroom shuffle with former CEO Matt Levatich being ousted for Jochen Zeitz.
However, Harley-Davidson’s desire to establish a more affordable, low-capacity range of motorcycles appears to have been reignited after Harley-Davidson branding was spotted on documents linked to the 338R’s donor model - the QJ SRK 350 / Benelli 350S - which were submitted to the US NHTSA.
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Morgan65

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Reply #1 on: November 27, 2022, 09:58:45 am
It will never sell to the Harley Davidson customers. Why?
1) It is not made by H-D.
2) It’s made in China.
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Karl Childers

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Reply #2 on: November 27, 2022, 03:44:22 pm
Harley keeps trying to lure young riders in with little success, this being the latest attempt? One plus I see is it would be a Chinese bike that actually had a nationwide service network to back it up........that's all I got.

 Harley's have always had a certain mystique real or perceived that drew in buyers, putting their badge on a Chinese bike will not make that happen, this will be another attempt that will most likely languish on the show room floor.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #3 on: November 27, 2022, 05:39:09 pm
Well...as your customer base ages out & dies off, you need to do something to attract new customers. The local Craigslist is FULL of $15K - $25K Hogly-Dawgs for sale. That rather implies that existing ownership is trying to recoup some losses.

Maybe HD could sell wall-size pictures of their bikes and time-share certificates...at least the 70-90 year old crowd could pick those up if they fell off the wall. Looks like to me HD will run out of participants at the next big economic downturn. When times get hard, status-symbol ownership sags way off.
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


viczena

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Reply #4 on: November 27, 2022, 06:21:37 pm
There was a viable path for HD into the future: Electric bikes. But not that overpriced Livewire thing they built. They should resume to their beginning: Sturdy Offroad bikes. But they prefered to destroy Alta bikes, instead of really buying them and building the best offroad bikes in the world.
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #5 on: November 27, 2022, 07:20:56 pm
Well spoken. There is a trend in companies, when the core group is largely replaced by finance & marketing folks with no heart for the original business the company crashes. The existing fiscal wizzerdz on the payroll will likely be very willing to help sell it off/break it up.

As you imply, the company needs to change with the market to survive. Affordable electric bikes is certainly one way to get there & build back market share. They are rapidly running out of affluent Boomers reliving their imaginary "Wild Ones" youth, there had better be a "Plan B" in the works. $20K - $30K electric bikes and 120 HP, 500 pound "collectable adventure bikes" sure ain't it.
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Karl Childers

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Reply #6 on: November 27, 2022, 11:12:18 pm
I think Harley unintentionally painted themselves into a corner with their marketing in the 90's and early 2,000's. Boomer couldn't get enough of their big twins.  Az Cal is right the boomers are now aging out and the millennia's care more about phones then motorcycles. Harley may well go the way of the dodo in the next decade unless some unseen trend saves them. Their Pan Am adventure bike has been a break away from tradition and successful but probably not enough to reverse the trend. 100 + years was a good run.


Richard230

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Reply #7 on: November 28, 2022, 01:41:57 am
Perhaps it is time for H-D to market a cell phone with their brand with a skull and crossbones on it.  ;)
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #8 on: November 28, 2022, 06:35:55 am
Available Ring tones:
kapook-kapook-kapook-sumbitch won't start-kapook-kapook...
potato-potato-potato-potato-potato-potato-potato
BaLapBaLapBaLapBaLapBaLapBaLapBaLap
And the ever popular Steppenwolf "Born to be Wild"...
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Warwick

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Reply #9 on: November 28, 2022, 08:23:30 am
Harley just needs to make a lightweight 750 retro looking scrambler/flat tracker with a really competitive pricing only just above the interceptor. They also just discontinued their real retro bike: the air-cooled sportster. 
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Karl Childers

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Reply #10 on: November 28, 2022, 11:38:39 am
They also just discontinued their real retro bike: the air-cooled sportster.

Bad mistake in my opinion. My fearless prediction the new Sportster S won't sell half as well but for Harley it will be easier to meet ever tightening emission standards, another caught between a rock and a hard place situation for them.


Richard230

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Reply #11 on: November 28, 2022, 02:34:58 pm
Harley just needs to make a lightweight 750 retro looking scrambler/flat tracker with a really competitive pricing only just above the interceptor. They also just discontinued their real retro bike: the air-cooled sportster.

I thought H-D tried selling 750cc (and also a 500) water cooled V-twins that were assembled in the U.S. from Indian-made parts a few years ago.  ??? They seemed like well-designed models with a lot of potential. But apparently they flopped in the U.S. market, although I think they might still be sold in India.  ??? It seems as if H-D just can't seem to sell anything that isn't a large, heavy and expensive big twin cruiser, no matter what they do - even going back to the mid-1960's and early 1970's when they carried a line of H-D brand Italian 50cc-350cc singles and a few 2-stroke twins. But after a while they just couldn't stand up to the Japanese competition and eventually they faded away.  :(
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Warwick

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Reply #12 on: December 01, 2022, 08:35:38 pm
the water cooled vtwins that flopped in the US looked horrible and did not have any semblance to the flattrackers of the 70's.
See video for the SWM sportster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFwBKn_Ut6Q




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AzCal Retred

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Reply #13 on: December 02, 2022, 05:07:14 am
What's the boggle with selling something people want and can afford? Are HD committed to corporate suicide? The whole "HD lifestyle" schtick eludes me. You want real speed? Get a Hayabusa or ZX14. What's wrong with the Goldwing or Rocket 3 if you want to tour effortlessly? Why anyone in 2022 would spend real money, $25K-$45K, on faux 1930's tech is a puzzler. The target audience is aging out, play money is harder to come by, there's certainly no objective performance reason to own one, you are just buying into a pricy, machismo infused boys club.

HD needs to develop new clientele if they expect to stay in business. That means a new product line and new marketing engagement. The current dealers won't work as they are fully committed to the existing  lifestyle schlock. Maybe they need to break away "HD" from the new hardware, like Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura. There's no disgrace in selling solid transportation or decent light & middleweight machines, but it would take a much different attitude.
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Karl Childers

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Reply #14 on: December 02, 2022, 07:20:31 am
The old Harley rationalization, " If I have to explain it you wouldn't understand" always bugged me a little bit but the fact of the matter is like some other makes they speak to you on an emotional level. They aren't the best handling or the fastest but they excel at moving the soul, something that other appliance like bikes or tiddlers just aren't able to do. They are a touchstone to the past and for those that like their motorcycles in classic flavors find all the boxes ticked by them. The baby boomers seemed to long for an idyllic past that never really existed but manifested itself in music, guitars, and cultural niches, from the sublime to the ridiculous. The younger ones now don't look back but are looking forward and for most, motorcycles don't fit that vision.

Harley owners have always fallen into three camps, the RUB's (rich urban bikers) the dirt bag 1 %'s (I say that with some affection) and the third group is a bit harder to label but distill down to your general motorcycle enthusiast who sees / hears / feels something in these bikes and gets something from them that other motorcycles just don't provide (there's that emotional level thing again). Harley doesn't have the market cornered on this, you'll see the same with British and Italian bike owners and more so with the classic enthusiasts of those brands I don't enjoy the prospect of Harley Davidson fading away or for that matter motorcycle culture as I have known it in my life time, but change is inevitable and time marches on. In the meantime I look forward to that day next Spring when I can get my Harley down to the highway for the first ride of the season and the world and all it's problems melt away as I'm in the the wind once more with my anachronistic big twin motorcycle.

A younger Karl (by 15 years) on another one of my bikes I shouldn't have sold, it too possessed the magic to move the soul!