Author Topic: Tubeless 17inch...anyone rolling these?  (Read 1256 times)

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NVDucati

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Reply #15 on: November 23, 2022, 05:44:58 pm
Here is a "Universal" re-calibration unit. The plug connections won't match but they are 3 wire units so that will be a minor problem. It has two buttons to click it faster or slower. I have not personally used one.
https://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=1011/category_id=519/mode=prod/prd1011.htm
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lucky phil

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Reply #16 on: November 23, 2022, 10:08:13 pm
Hi Folks!

My name is Subbu and i am from Bangalore, India. I have had my Interceptor 650 for around 3 and half years now and have put 33k kms on the odo so far. I recently (3 days ago) got the 17" Tubeless spoke wheels (front & rear) shod with 110/60-17 and 150/60-17 f/r. My two biggest reasons for this big mod were a) My luck with punctures and b) We have very few options for Good tyres in 18" here in India.

Now, i thought i knew what i was getting myself into by going with 17" wheels/tyres. However, only after installation did i learn about the Odo error  :(....i thought only the Speedo will be impacted. I like how the bike looks now and i do not care much about the speed error. But, i would certainly like to get the odo error rectified.
Is this possible? I really need some help here. Will the speed sensor off of the Royal Enfield Hunter fix the Odo error since it also runs on 17" wheels?

Other observations from the short stint with the new setup:
a) The Handling seems to be very different and i think will take some getting used to
b) The reduction in GC is not as big an issue on highways, but i suspect cornering will be hard (especially left handed ones)
c) The dreaded front end wobble with both hands off the bars, has totally disappeared
 

Why would you ever ride with both hands off the bars? Especially on Indian roads. I've never in 50 years of riding taken more than one hand off the bars. You can't expect manufacturers of motorcycles and tyres to design their product to take "no hands on the bars riding".

Phil
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gizzo

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Reply #17 on: November 23, 2022, 10:47:03 pm
Hi, I looked it up and unfortunately, i think it is not compatible with the Interceptors? It is not on the list of matching parts by Bike  :(. Getting it sent over to India may be another issue.
I will take a wild guess and say that if you can make the Hunter speedo drive work with the Interceptor forks, the speedo and odo problem will resolve itself.

Why not give it a try? A speedo drive over your way should be as cheap as dirt, so no risk there.
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Hoiho

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Reply #18 on: November 23, 2022, 10:54:27 pm
Why would you ever ride with both hands off the bars? Especially on Indian roads. I've never in 50 years of riding taken more than one hand off the bars. You can't expect manufacturers of motorcycles and tyres to design their product to take "no hands on the bars riding".

Phil

Many bikes are perfectly stable without a hand damper... some are not. My GT is one of the former and I've got no issue riding like that at low-moderate speed, but I've grown up on pushbikes where it's common to put a jacket on/take off a layer, forage in a pack etc...  we used to have races from the top of a winding hill road where the object was to get to the bottom without touching the bar.


NVDucati

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Reply #19 on: November 23, 2022, 11:47:34 pm
If your bike's chassis and running gear are tuned correctly ... you are perfectly able to ride without, as gizzo points out, the "hand dampener" engaged.
In fact, after a tire change or other work ... testing it with hands off is one of the first thing I do. And that especially includes decelerating. If you can't make a sweeper turn at the posted speed limit without holding on to the bars, the bike is not right.
      That was SOP with every bike that went through our shop when any sort of work was done involving the chassis elements.
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lucky phil

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Reply #20 on: November 24, 2022, 07:09:11 am
If your bike's chassis and running gear are tuned correctly ... you are perfectly able to ride without, as gizzo points out, the "hand dampener" engaged.
In fact, after a tire change or other work ... testing it with hands off is one of the first thing I do. And that especially includes decelerating. If you can't make a sweeper turn at the posted speed limit without holding on to the bars, the bike is not right.
      That was SOP with every bike that went through our shop when any sort of work was done involving the chassis elements.

Christ. Yea that's why manufacturers have instructions in the owners manual on riding without your hands off the bars and insurance companies pay out faster for "hands off the bars crashes". Do you understand the silliness of a post with this type of ill considered recommendation?
I'd love to ask an A grade racer here to accelerate down the straight and then take both hands off the bars so I can ascertain how the bike is set up and see his response.
Personally I think you should delete your post for safety reasons.

Phil   
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NVDucati

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Reply #21 on: November 24, 2022, 11:23:01 am
Christ. Yea that's why manufacturers have instructions in the owners manual on riding without your hands off the bars and insurance companies pay out faster for "hands off the bars crashes". Do you understand the silliness of a post with this type of ill considered recommendation?
I'd love to ask an A grade racer here to accelerate down the straight and then take both hands off the bars so I can ascertain how the bike is set up and see his response.
Personally I think you should delete your post for safety reasons.

Phil
Phil, Phil, Phil ... calm down and get out of your own way.
_ Nobody is suggesting that one puts their hands in their pockets while riding. No one is suggesting to sit backwards on the seat. With an open mind anyone can envision testing a bike for a tendency to wobble with their hands open and millimeters away from re-gripping the bar.
_ I respect that you, as a man with a degree in engineering, a master machinist and a Grade A racer have been very helpful, in many ways to the readers of this and other forums. Still ... sometimes you stake out the strangest positions such that it becomes confusing.
_ Anyway, I stand by the fact that one can and should safely test the state of a motorcycle's stability. And in the meantime I'll go back to watching TV coverage of Grade A racers, around the world,  crossing the finish line, double fist bumping the sky in victory only to crash and tumble.  ;)

   
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JessHerbst

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Reply #22 on: November 24, 2022, 01:10:04 pm
Christ. Yea that's why manufacturers have instructions in the owners manual on riding without your hands off the bars and insurance companies pay out faster for "hands off the bars crashes". Do you understand the silliness of a post with this type of ill considered recommendation?
I'd love to ask an A grade racer here to accelerate down the straight and then take both hands off the bars so I can ascertain how the bike is set up and see his response.
Personally I think you should delete your post for safety reasons.

Phil
Love you Phil, but watch the end on any professional bicycle race and you will see those professionals riding with their hands thrown high in the sky as they celebrate.
 You will also see them put on & take off jackets, food sacks etc. without hands on the bars during the race.
 A well designed two wheel machine will track just fine by balance alone.
 Of course this is not optimal, you can hit a rock, crack in the road etc. but the point is the bike should not need your hands to keep it from shaking.
 
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Hoiho

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Reply #23 on: November 24, 2022, 07:21:49 pm
Love you Phil, but watch the end on any professional bicycle race and you will see those professionals riding with their hands thrown high in the sky as they celebrate.
 You will also see them put on & take off jackets, food sacks etc. without hands on the bars during the race.
 A well designed two wheel machine will track just fine by balance alone.
 Of course this is not optimal, you can hit a rock, crack in the road etc. but the point is the bike should not need your hands to keep it from shaking.

My rigid commuter ebike is a real head shaker - old school geometry, steep head angle, short reach, longish stem. Can't trust that bike, esp with a pannier on.  My 160/170mm MTB, on the other hand, is completely stable.


lucky phil

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Reply #24 on: November 24, 2022, 09:23:45 pm
Love you Phil, but watch the end on any professional bicycle race and you will see those professionals riding with their hands thrown high in the sky as they celebrate.
 You will also see them put on & take off jackets, food sacks etc. without hands on the bars during the race.
 A well designed two wheel machine will track just fine by balance alone.
 Of course this is not optimal, you can hit a rock, crack in the road etc. but the point is the bike should not need your hands to keep it from shaking.

It's not about that jess, professional bike and cycle racers do all sorts of stuff. The main thrust of my comment if you re read the post is about whether or not releasing the bars (and covering them even, if you like) is a stupid way to asses the way a motorcycle chassis is performing/set up or if it has any issues. It tells you nothing you can't already feel in a proper assessment ride. The silly part is there are less experienced people here that may think it's some sort of realistic test of something and try doing it. Best not to do stuff like this. It is of no utility at all in assessing a motorcycles chassis and only adds a risk not worth taking. Along with a gazillion images of road racers riding hands off at the finish line are the same amount of videos of public road stunt riding fools crashing doing hands off stunts after the bike gets unstable. People also seem to think that because the bike is stable at a certain speed and road condition hands off then it's the same at 5 or 10kph more or it will handle any road irregularity that comes along unexpectantly.   

Phil
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CPJS

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Reply #25 on: November 25, 2022, 10:11:29 am
It's not about that jess, professional bike and cycle racers do all sorts of stuff. The main thrust of my comment if you re read the post is about whether or not releasing the bars (and covering them even, if you like) is a stupid way to asses the way a motorcycle chassis is performing/set up or if it has any issues. It tells you nothing you can't already feel in a proper assessment ride. The silly part is there are less experienced people here that may think it's some sort of realistic test of something and try doing it. Best not to do stuff like this. It is of no utility at all in assessing a motorcycles chassis and only adds a risk not worth taking. Along with a gazillion images of road racers riding hands off at the finish line are the same amount of videos of public road stunt riding fools crashing doing hands off stunts after the bike gets unstable. People also seem to think that because the bike is stable at a certain speed and road condition hands off then it's the same at 5 or 10kph more or it will handle any road irregularity that comes along unexpectantly.   

Phil

Add to this, different tyres, tyre profiles, tyre wear and tyre pressures. Changing the end cans makes a big change to the weight on each axle. Adding a fairing to the front of your bike will have a different effect at different speeds. The list goes on.
Your once stable bike maybe no so much anymore, not enough to be dangerous or even noticable, letting go of the bars will often allow this to become apparent.
Race machines tend to be built for a specific narrow band of use, outside of that they are often unstable.


« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 10:42:43 am by CPJS »
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Hog Head

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Reply #26 on: November 26, 2022, 09:38:40 am
Metezler Z8 has tires to fit the stock rims on both ends.

But not here.................
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Subbu-500

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Reply #27 on: November 30, 2022, 02:30:04 pm
Quote
Why would you ever ride with both hands off the bars? Especially on Indian roads

Hi Phil, i appreciate your concern  :). I mentioned that point just to report that the wobble was gone post the wheel/tyre mod. Trust me i am no fan of riding with hands off the bars or performing any other stunts on two wheels  ;D. I first noticed the wobble accidentally when i had forgotten to secure my Helmet strap and let go of the bars on the move to quickly strap on. I was probably one of the first RE twin owners to report this issue and soon several riders in my group came back stating they had it on their bikes too. So ever since, people here have tried almost everything (forks, fork oil, tyres, wheel alignment, truing, steering cone bearing replacement etc.) to try and rectify it. I for one, just learnt to live it as i taught myself to remember to strap down my helmet before taking off rather than let go of the bars.

Cheers
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Subbu-500

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Reply #28 on: November 30, 2022, 03:11:25 pm

Other observations from the short stint with the new setup:
a) The Handling seems to be very different and i think will take some getting used to
b) The reduction in GC is not as big an issue on highways, but i suspect cornering will be hard (especially left handed ones)

I had been on a short 600kms ride over the weekend and i came back with a mixed bag.
Pros: The bike is totally stable on stable on straight lines even at top speed, it feels more nimble in lane changes (this could be because of the smaller wheels?), and the biggest plus is the way it handled the twisties  ;D. I can now pick a much tighter line and stick to it compared to earlier where i did not have the same level of confidence. I am very happy with the Mod as far as the looks and handling are concerned.

Cons: Well, apart from the obvious Speedo and Odo errors, i think the fuel mileage has taken a hit due to the wider tyres :(. I might have been a bit more aggressive on this ride but still, a drop of 3 to 4 kmpl was observed over 3 tank fulls.

Just a couple of pics to sign off...
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Hoiho

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Reply #29 on: November 30, 2022, 07:58:34 pm
Better tyres eliminate the wobble and tram-lining tendencies of the stock rubber. Slightly wider rubber gives you a bit more lean capacity.

On the subject of stability - I've always enjoyed Zach's Daily Rider reviews; and lately he's taken to doing a passenger comfort assessment, on bikes with cruise control. https://youtu.be/Z33K6PdAewE?t=852