[Fahnone]

Hey mates, here we go again.

After all the work (with your help of course!) the Bullet is running.

Thanks a lot for all your advices an explanations!

Now i changed the left and right switches on the handlebar, for some more "vintage" looking ones.

Was a mess, i had to change the whole conectors an try every single cable, because not the same colors.

Now everything works fine, but the Bullet with the ignition on, without running, if i put the lights on the ampmeter deflect on the negative side, but not just a little, it is completly on the negative side...

Somebody has an explanation for that?

Pictures below...

[Adrian II]

Have you got both headlamp filaments coming on at the same time?

Did your Bullet originally have an AC headlight?

A.

[Fahnone]

Hay Adrian II, that's a good question about AC or not? I dont know..

For the filaments every cable is apart, maybe i switched some cables to the wrong place in the conector?

First theres the pilot lamps going on (ampeter deflects totally to negative) and the tiny lamp in front, second position the headlamp itself where the ampmeter deflects a bit less but still too much....

[Fahnone]

Do somebody has pictures of the headlight and pilot lights wiring of a bike close to mine 2007 Iron Bullet ES?

If i unplug the orange wire connected to the headlight the ampmeter stops to deflect negative! But then the headlight isn't working.

Still when i only use the parking light the ampmeter deflects total negative. (without engine running)

I dont know if i misswired somethind on the pilot lamps ord the main headlight....

[Adrian II]

2007 Bullets will have AC headlighting - the supply runs straight from the alternator to the headlamp dip switch via its own AC regulator and is supposed to be electrically isolated from the rest of the electrical system.

Your alternator should have four wires - two purple to supply the reg/rectifier for 12V DC for the battery, this supplies the ignition, horn, stop/tail light, pilot lights and the electric start solenoid. The E/S starter motor gets its supply from the battery via the two much thicker wires. The yellow and amber or orange wire are the AC feed for the headlight. Yellow is feed, amber/orange is return (not earth).

The vintage style switch gear was designed when all old British bikes had DC lights, so I don't know if you CAN use all DC switchgear without converting the whole system to DC. This can be done, of course, you can either wire-up the entire alternator supply to go through the reg/rectifier (see the Pete Snidal manual regarding how to do this) or fit a single-phase two wire Lucas alternator stator for a RM21 alternator, they are a straight swap mechanically for the Indian stator.

A.

[Raymond]

. . . DC switchgear without converting the whole system to DC . . . or fit a single-phase two wire Lucas alternator stator for a RM21 alternator, they are a straight swap mechanically for the Indian stator.

That's what I did - converted to all DC and fitted the Lucas RM21 stator. Used very similar switches too. Going all DC leaves the wiring system a lot simpler, the alternator can cope with demands, and more to the point on a good day I can understand what's going on with the electrics.


I can show my wiring diagram if it would be helpful?

[Adrian II]

I had your bike in mind, Raymond, I was just too lazy to post the link to your thread!

A.

[Fahnone]

Raymond hello, that would be absolutely nice to show me your wiring!

And a little explanation how i can change everything to DC.

The thing is everythings works fine ( lights, turnsignals, brakelight etc...)
Its just that the ampmeter is below negative, wich wasnt before?

[Fahnone]

Pictures nelow, the orange one has also a black cable going to the little pilot lamp in the headlight....

Are the wires connected correctly?
Also the orange/amber cable goes in a bullet connector to a red cable, going into the harness....

[stinkwheel]

First off. That much deflection of the ammeter means there is a crazy high current going through it. To the extent I'd say there is probably a short circuit somewhere.

Two common places you get a short like that (and somehow without causing the wiring the melt) are on the pilot light or the speedo back light bulb holder. If you've got them wired in back to front, the outside of the bulb holder is live and it shorts onto the hole you poke it through. So as a first quick and easy step, I'd pull those holders out of their holes so they aren't touching anything metal and see if the problem goes away.

Second. Running AC/DC lighting through switchgear designed for DC. It IS do-able but it's not simple or pretty. Probably the easiest way to wire up lighting switchgear would be to use one of the lucas style rotary headlamp switches in place of the ignition switch and relocate the ignition elsewhere.

I'm running AC/DC lighting on my trials bike through honda C90 switchgear. I made up a relay pack so the switches are all running DC and the switch output is sending the AC through to the headlight via the relays (and hooking in the AC regulator. There's method in the madness because it retains the functionality of the AC lighting but isn't loading all that current through the switches.

I made up the following circuit then epoxy-potted the whole lot in a little plastic container with the 7 wires coming out if it, I cable tied that to the fork stanchion inside the headlamp. I warned you it wasn't pretty!

[Fahnone]

Hello Stinkwheel again,

Thanks for explanation, but speedo and pilots are alright, even when pulling these cables out it changes nothing....

But instead, if i pull out the orange cable going to the headlamp so the the headlamp doesnt work anymore my ampmeter is normal!
But only in full light position, if i go to parking light it deflechts total negative... So now i dont know if it is related to the parking light or to the main light....

[richard211]

Unplug this wire from the park light bulb which I have circled in the photo and see wheter the headlight works and the short circuit is gone.

[AzCal Retred]

This is making me crazy(er). How & why are you even doing this without referring to a wiring diagram? There's one in the downloadable Hitchcock's manual. Didn't you look thru the schematic first? What's the wiring diagram of the new switches like? How does it compare to what was there? Electricity doesn't respond well to "cut'n try"; you can easily get into zorching the Bullets PlaySkool wiring loom and starting from scratch. Get the WD/Schematic out, peruse it, grasp it and/or ask questions, then get the VOM out and see what's what. Color codes are "approximate", sometimes good, sometimes not. Circuit logic always works but you need to have a firm grasp of it first. Flailing away just using the color codes on a used bike is a recipe for a long walk home.

You can't assume or guess here. You need to understand the OEM circuit logic, then make a plan, then test what's there to see if the new bits will function as desired, then test & retest as you go. Don't assume anything on RE wiring, you need to methodically prove it out.

Start here:
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/core/media/media.nl?id=238185&c=1062795&h=cNYx2wrhLhAKvjDFCYzk7OBqjBtKiD1JLE4tvmZjY40Rn1aO&_xt=.pdf

[Fahnone]

@richard211 thanks mate for the help, but it changes nothing.

AzCal Retred, hello again, no use to get crazy mate, im not an electrician but still it is not the first i went trough a wiring, and of course never without a diagram, actually i have 3 of them, i have my book, wich is almost the same as the one of Hitchcock, the one of Hitchcock, and the one of Pete Snidal!

My problem here is that these new switches wich you can see in one of my previous posts, they dont have any wiring or color diagram! So hell yeah i was kind of forced to try them step by step, on at the time comparing with my Minda switches, until everything worked... I even had to add a cable and solder it to the switch to get an electric start, and like i said everything works, now im trying to figure out what take this amount of "juice" when i turn on Parking lights or headlight.

Dont want to offend you mate, im trying, im learning, espacially with you guys.

Theres also a connector i cant find in my manual who was ther "unconnected" since i got the bike and there is no other connecror to fit this one.

Picture below.

The black connector with two cables, red/white and brown

[AzCal Retred]

Switch internals can be deciphered using the VOM and creating a "truth table" on paper. Mostly but not always you can eyeball them, but the VOM tells the real story.

Once you have the truth table constructed you know their internal logic. It's just a matter of correlating the new switch leads with the desired functions. If all of the leads were the same color, mark them yourself with tape flags, assign a letter, associate that to the diagram you make. Simple stuff.

When you get inside the RE Casquette it gets real busy. AFAIK RE uses jobbers for the electrical subassemblies, and even on the assembly line they apparently sometimes just "use up what they got" to get the bike out the door. You need to "trust but verify" as you take stuff apart. Additionally on a used bike it can be a voyage of discovery, you just never know what the PO did.

Since you have the schematics, you can see that the headlight is AC and has an AC voltage regulator. It must be kept separate from the DC side. How did that requirement correlate to the new switch layout?

The Schematic also shows how the ammeter is connected in the system. Basically it is telling you when the REG/REC is charging the battery. With the engine off, key ON, all of mine deflect a bit left from the tail light being always on. When the points close and the coil charges it'll go maybe 2/3 over left, about 3-4 amps to the coil. As soon as the points open this load drops off. If yours is pegged left, as Stinkwheel says there is a high resistance short or mis-connected load present. You have to find it and correct it. To do that you'll need to methodically open up connections one at a time until you figure out which one it is.

The ignition coil has its normal (+) power source interrupted by the "kill switch". On a stock machine, if the ammeter is telling you that the points are closed, operating the kill switch removes power to the coil. The ignition key switch when OFF puts a ground parallel to the contact points and disconnects the battery. As the points effectively "never open", no spark is made, the engine stops. The battery is disconnected and the Reg/Rec can't provide power because the engine isn't able to run.

What kind of electrical troubleshooting tools do you have to work with? A VOM? A fused continuity light?

Tell me how many wires ( and colors?) are coming out of the new switch assembly, list the push buttons, switch levers and their positions, and I'll help you puzzle out the guts accurately.