[Warwick]

Its a thumper. I will be trading in my 650 twin
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/motorcycles/2022-bsa-gold-star-650-revealed-ahead-of-motorcycle-live-debut/ar-AARrl90?ocid=BingNewsSearch

[Karl Childers]

Gotta say I like the looks of that!

[AzCal Retred]

More links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDFZAp4bR_4
New BSA Gold Star - Director Of BSA Motorcycles Tells More

https://www.rideapart.com/news/552336/bsa-gold-star-650-revealed/

https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/bsa-motorcycles-reveals-new-gold-star-650-2022-preview-event

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/two-wheelers/2022-bsa-gold-star-is-here-challenging-royal-enfield-650-twins-41638524406085.html

https://www.indiatoday.in/auto/latest-auto-news/story/2022-bsa-gold-star-650-motorcycle-revealed-ahead-of-global-debut-1883880-2021-12-03

[Keef Sparrow]

Not too sure about the downpipe, but apart from that it looks great!

[Arschloch]

Not too sure about the downpipe, but apart from that it looks great!

Maybe a double wall to avoid bueing? ...looks very thick. Personally i like the discoloration on the header, particularly on stainless.

[Richard230]

More information and specifications in this short video;  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3jBQuwes8

[AzCal Retred]

Looks like a wet sump design, didn't read about a counterbalancer.

https://www.autocarindia.com/bike-news/bsa-is-back-gold-star-650-specifications-revealed-422828
BSA Gold Star 650 specifications revealed ; Published On Dec 04, 2021

Classic Legends was set up around five years ago, with the aim of reviving defunct, but once iconic motorcycle brands. The company brought Jawa back from the dead and is now doing the same with BSA and Yezdi. BSA Motorcycles has showcased its first offering, the Gold Star.
Gold Star has a kerb weight of 213kg (470 Lbs.)
To be assembled in the United Kingdom
Expected to rival bikes from Kawasaki and Triumph
BSA Gold Star 650: engine and gearbox
As we exclusively revealed back in June 2021, Classic Legends has prepared a big single-cylinder motor for this reborn machine. The 652cc engine is a liquid-cooled, DOHC, four-valve unit that makes 45hp at 6,000rpm and 55Nm of torque at 4,000rpm. BSA has said the engine “Torque starts building up from as low as 1,800rpm, delivering a healthy flow throughout the rev range and resulting in effortless cruising and bursts of acceleration when needed.” As we previously revealed, this new engine comes paired to a 5-speed gearbox.
BSA Gold Star 650: chassis
The Gold Star uses a tubular steel, dual-cradle frame and a 41mm telescopic fork and twin shock absorbers for suspension. Braking, meanwhile, is handled by a single 320m disc up front and a 255mm disc at the rear. The bike also uses Brembo callipers at both ends. The wheels on the Gold Star are 18 inches up front and 17 inches at the rear, shod with Pirelli Phantom Sportscomp tyres. The bike has a fuel tank capacity of 12 litres and a kerb weight of 213kg.
BSA Gold Star 650: expected price
The company has made it clear that it intends to start assembling BSA motorcycles in England by mid-2021. While it is easy to expect that the BSAs are going to be aimed at the Royal Enfield 650s, it’s worth remembering that throughout history, BSA has always placed itself above Royal Enfield.
Similarly, the new BSA motorcycle is expected to be priced higher than the Enfield 650s and closer to bikes like the Kawasaki W800 and Triumph Street Twin.

[Karl Childers]

I'm guessing the 45 HP is measured at the crank not the rear wheel.

[Karl Childers]

double post please delete.

[Nitrowing]

Pretty but under-powered and over-weight 

[Arschloch]

Pretty but under-powered and over-weight 

Who would leave his bike stock anyway. If you remove the elephant trunk of an header the pounds will go down considerably.

[AzCal Retred]

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/kawasaki_klr650%2006.htm
The KLR650 motor is a 650cc, 100mm x 83mm, liquid cooled 5 speed unit.
These folks list the KLR "Max Power" at 48 @ 6500 RPM, RW HP at 41.7, about 6 HP drive train losses, fairly normal.
KLR all-up Wet Weight is listed at roughly 420, which seems low. The KLR weight is carried higher up than the BSA's weight will be as it is a dual purpose machine.

The BSA 650 specs by Rush Lane say 45HP @ 6000 RPM, wet weight of 213Kg/ 470 pounds. 45/48=about 94%, so within 6% of the KLR power spinning at 92% or the KLR's crankshaft speed.

As Derottone clearly pointed out, the stock exhaust is likely made of lead/depleted uranium just like all quiet modern systems, which this forums participants routinely replace anyway at the drop of a hat. It's not unusual to see a 20-30 pound savings with an exhaust swap out. Quite possibly the BSA would end up within 20 pounds of the KLR's weight, with a lower CG, and possibly a bit better midrange. The KLR's are routinely lowered anyway by folks that either spend more time on the street or have short inseams. The BSA offers more "traditional" styling than the clean-sheet KLR. The old Yamaha SRX6 was a nod in the BSA's (Clubman) direction, as were the GB 500 Hondas, but never had an "Old School" appearing, purpose built powerplant.

According to AutoCarIndia the BSA will retail for about the same as the W800 & Triumph Street Twin, so around $9000 USD (7,000 Pounds). That puts it $2500-$3500 more than the 650 Royal Enfield. I'm guessing that the retail will drop a bit after the "me first" crowd thins out.

https://www.rushlane.com/bsa-gold-star-650-specs-officially-revealed-12410304.html

[cyrusb]

Is there one detail from an actual Gold Star anywhere on this machine?
 Nine grand for an Indian pretender, really?
 I am getting a little tired of what our Indian friends determine what cool is.
How about you? (Seen the Jawa?)

[Karl Childers]

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/kawasaki_klr650%2006.htm
The KLR650 motor is a 650cc, 100mm x 83mm, liquid cooled 5 speed unit.
These folks list the KLR "Max Power" at 48 @ 6500 RPM, RW HP at 41.7, about 6 HP drive train losses, fairly normal.
KLR all-up Wet Weight is listed at roughly 420, which seems low. The KLR weight is carried higher up than the BSA's weight will be as it is a dual purpose machine.

The BSA 650 specs by Rush Lane say 45HP @ 6000 RPM, wet weight of 213Kg/ 470 pounds. 45/48=about 94%, so within 6% of the KLR power spinning at 92% or the KLR's crankshaft speed.

As Derottone clearly pointed out, the stock exhaust is likely made of lead/depleted uranium just like all quiet modern systems, which this forums participants routinely replace anyway at the drop of a hat. It's not unusual to see a 20-30 pound savings with an exhaust swap out. Quite possibly the BSA would end up within 20 pounds of the KLR's weight, with a lower CG, and possibly a bit better midrange. The KLR's are routinely lowered anyway by folks that either spend more time on the street or have short inseams. The BSA offers more "traditional" styling than the clean-sheet KLR. The old Yamaha SRX6 was a nod in the BSA's (Clubman) direction, as were the GB 500 Hondas, but never had an "Old School" appearing, purpose built powerplant.

According to AutoCarIndia the BSA will retail for about the same as the W800 & Triumph Street Twin, so around $9000 USD (7,000 Pounds). That puts it $2500-$3500 more than the 650 Royal Enfield. I'm guessing that the retail will drop a bit after the "me first" crowd thins out.

https://www.rushlane.com/bsa-gold-star-650-specs-officially-revealed-12410304.html

About the same horse power figures of my old DR650 it could hit an indicated 100 mph in stock trim

[AzCal Retred]

@ #12: Camaro? Mustang? Triumph? Norton? Lots of new clean sheet vehicles sold with implied old school "contact magic". It's all about available disposable income & mechanical aptitude. A REAL Goldstar has to be bid away from professional monied collectors and requires a lot of shop time, hand machined parts, love & money to be ridable on a regular basis. A clean sheet design with EFI & electric leg are godsends to us aged wards, "decal engineering" may be the best answer to an affordable, pretty daily driver. Like the 350 Meteor, 535 GT & 650 Interceptor, clean sheet but still good, fun bikes. Indians can run the potential sales numbers/brand appeal pretty well, hopefully they didn't drop the ball designing the new BSA.

[cyrusb]

@ #12: Camaro? Mustang? Triumph? Norton? Lots of new clean sheet vehicles sold with implied old school "contact magic". It's all about available disposable income & mechanical aptitude. A REAL Goldstar has to be bid away from professional monied collectors and requires a lot of shop time, hand machined parts, love & money to be ridable on a regular basis. A clean sheet design with EFI & electric leg are godsends to us aged wards, "decal engineering" may be the best answer to an affordable, pretty daily driver. Like the 350 Meteor, 535 GT & 650 Interceptor, clean sheet but still good, fun bikes. Indians can run the potential sales numbers/brand appeal pretty well, hopefully they didn't drop the ball designing the new BSA.

They don't even come close. Mustang, Camaro, Made by the original manufacturers of course they can evolve. But these Indian manufacturers are using historical greatness to peddle their cookie cutter crap. That I cant abide.

[AzCal Retred]

Another link -
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2022-bsa-gold-star/
" Available in your choice of five colours, the A2-compliant machine is powered by a 652cc single-cylinder DOHC engine, producing a claimed 45bhp at 6000rpm and 41ftlb of torque at 4000rpm. Service intervals come every 6200 miles.
Sporting fins reminiscent of the original air-cooled Gold Star, which ceased production in the 1960s, BSA say the new Euro5 motor starts to pull from as little as 1800rpm – making life that bit easier when chugging along the back lanes. There’s also an assist and slipper clutch, too.
Holding that motor in place is a tubular steel dual cradle chassis, with suspension provided by a set of 41mm non-adjustable forks, plus five-stage preload adjustable twin shocks.
There’s also a set of Pirelli Phantom Sportscomp tyres, which wrap around the 18in front and 17in rear 36-spoke rims – with braking power provided by a single 320mm front and 255mm rear disc with Brembo calipers and two channel ABS.
But it’s not all about engine stats and chassis components. Bikes like this need to look as good as they ride, and we reckon BSA have nailed the brief.
Sat on top of the rumbling engine is a 12-litre fuel tank, said to be inspired by the M24 and DB34 Gold Star models. You get the trademark BSA logo on either side, with pin striping and an offset fuel filler cap.
Moving back, there’s a typically Brit bike flat seat with a height of 780mm, which works with the gentle pegs and bars for a comfortably relaxed riding position.
Moving forward, there’s also twin analogue clocks, complete with internal LCD display and a USB charger mounted on the handlebars.
There’s no word on pricing yet, but we’d expect something in the region of £5000 and £6000 ($6500-$7800) – making it a direct competitor to Royal Enfield’s uber popular 650 twin range.

" Made by the original manufacturers of course they can evolve. "
Didn't the Mustang "evolve" into a Pinto for awhile? Just selling a name didn't work out, so they revisited it with a clean sheet of paper, just like BSA did.

Sounds pretty "home grown" from these - Much like RE's Meteor. Since BSA evaporated 50 years ago, the British design team would have had to "What If" a lot of things. Building a 1940's repli-bike wasn't an option - things have changed over time. Looks like they took what tech was currently available that worked better than the original 1950's tech, then followed the styling clues left behind. No need for sodium-filled valves in 2021. The machine has to stand on its own merits, the market will decide. If there is a place for an $8000 Janus 250, there is certainly a place for a new, nicely finished, user friendly, retro-looking $7000 650 thumper.

https://www.rideapart.com/news/552336/bsa-gold-star-650-revealed/
Where will the Gold Star be built? According to Classic Legends co-founder Anupam Thareja, it’s entirely a U.K. affair, from design to the build process.


https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/bsa-motorcycles-reveals-new-gold-star-650-2022-preview-event
Designed in the UK and built in India

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/two-wheelers/2022-bsa-gold-star-is-here-challenging-royal-enfield-650-twins-41638524406085.html
As the brand claims, this motorcycle will be designed, developed and manufactured in the UK.

[gizzo]

Is there one detail from an actual Gold Star anywhere on this machine?
 Nine grand for an Indian pretender, really?
 I am getting a little tired of what our Indian friends determine what cool is.
How about you? (Seen the Jawa?)

They don't determine what's cool, they look around the world to see what's in fashion and copy that, but a day late and a dollar short.

[AzCal Retred]

Actual BSA website: https://www.bsacompany.co.uk/

Another article:
https://paultan.org/2021/12/03/bsa-motorcycles-returns-with-the-bsa-gold-star-as-part-of-the-mahindra-group-official-launch-dec-4/
There are also plans to produce the Gold Star in its original home city of Birmingham

[Warwick]

Woohoo! One of the videos shows that horse power will go up too! Fancy RE fans critical of Indian built motorcycles.

[AzCal Retred]

60 HP doesn't seem an outrageous number to expect with some "race" tuning from a modern 4 valve, liquid cooled, EFI, DOHC, probably "square" bore/stroke design. The original 500cc DB34 Gold Star made about 42 HP and weighed about 420 pounds wet, so the new version isn't too far off that mark, and with electric start, EFI & brakes that work, and most likely "appliance-like reliability" to boot. It's all good sport. If we were actually trying to save money getting from place to place we'd either get a bus pass or a cheap used Kia Rio or Mitsubishi Mirage. Can't wait for a road test/review!

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/BSA/BSA%20DBD34%20GS.htm

[Arschloch]

60 HP doesn't seem an outrageous number to expect with some "race" tuning from a modern 4 valve, liquid cooled, EFI, DOHC, probably "square" bore/stroke design. The original 500cc DB34 Gold Star made about 42 HP and weighed about 420 pounds wet, so the new version isn't too far off that mark, and with electric start, EFI & brakes that work, and most likely "appliance-like reliability" to boot. It's all good sport. If we were actually trying to save money getting from place to place we'd either get a bus pass or a cheap used Kia Rio or Mitsubishi Mirage. Can't wait for a road test/review!

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/BSA/BSA%20DBD34%20GS.htm

All the gimmicks are meaningless if it's a 90ish stroke and won't  be good to rev much further than 6000 revs. You want 60hp, make it rev. 9000. Good luck.

Technically efi, electronic ignition is about all i would want. ABS?  You want a safe ride? Get a car.

The fake cooling ribs don't make the bike look any cooler, the huge water tank infront is about as beautiful as the elephant trunk of an header with the added benefit that it can't be removed. Too big and fat, the original was a nimble bike back than with a class leading performance.

It's like comparing Muhammad Ali with an steroid filled junkie such as Arnold Schwazenegger, both look good on the picture. The outcome in the ring would tell a different story.

I just love this kind of f***tards to come out and preach blood sweat and tears.

[Bilgemaster]

Look, I know it's no more a REAL BSA than I am King Mswati III of Swaziland, but I'm still curious to see and hear one in the wild or at least watch a review or three by most anyone other than that Yammie Boob creature. Frankly though, I'd have been just as curious if it were badged as a Mahindra. And I not only remember BSA, but owned one, and according to my tax returns at least, appear to still be more or less a going concern here in The Land of the Living.

"I want to see the new Mahindra!"

[Arschloch]

The new BSA is definitely a lot more user friendly than the old one. If it would sell at all without the BSA badge? Probably not so much. I still would get one, it would need adjustments.

[Keef Sparrow]

Maybe a double wall to avoid bueing? ...looks very thick. Personally i like the discoloration on the header, particularly on stainless.

Royal Enfield Bullets/Classics have double walled header pipes, but not as massively thick as this drainpipe!

[Keef Sparrow]

I'm guessing the 45 HP is measured at the crank not the rear wheel.

BHP measured at the crank is the standard all manufacturers have used for as long as I can remember.

[Keef Sparrow]

Pretty but under-powered and over-weight 

Agreed. A modern four valve 650 water cooled single should be able to produce at least 70BHP. That BSA is very heavy for a single!

[cyrusb]

Look, I know it's no more a REAL BSA than I am King Mswati III of Swaziland, but I'm still curious to see and hear one in the wild or at least watch a review or three by most anyone other than that Yammie Boob creature. Frankly though, I'd have been just as curious if it were badged as a Mahindra. And I not only remember BSA, but owned one, and according to my tax returns at least, appear to still be more or less a going concern here in The Land of the Living.

"I want to see the new Mahindra!"

Bilgemaster, you hit the nail on the head. That bike is an insult to anyone who has been in the presence of an actual BSA Goldie. Why not name these machines proudly Indian?

[Arschloch]

From an utilitarian perspective i would take the RE twin though. Think about how much money you could save on the rear tire wear only. 

[Karl Childers]

While still in the rumor stage I expected something "Transformer" cartoon like  that so many bikes are styled as  with a nod to the old Gold Star. This one comes much closer in looks than the new Triumph twins do to a 69 Bonneville IMHO so I give them points for that. I say more power to you if you want to own one, same with the R.E. Interceptors. My ownership of an Iron barrel Bullet is my first foray into ownership of a quasi British classic that was manufactured away from the country of origin, all the rest of my Brit bikes have been true classics. I'm enjoying my Bullet but when I am around real classic bikes I feel like the guy who took the fat girl to the prom. I suppose it all comes down to what each of us finds acceptable and how we define classic, I draw the line at Iron Barrels and for others a later UCE is acceptable. While I admire the looks of the new Gold Star I don't have a burning desire to own one, just a passing interest.
My apologies to those of you who did take a portly date to the school dance.

[Karl Childers]

BHP measured at the crank is the standard all manufacturers have used for as long as I can remember.

I seem to remember a few manufacturers that didn't (Harley maybe?) and the crank figures became standard when Japan began to dominate the market. At the moment I can't find anything doing a search to substantiate that. Once tested by the press and put on a dyno the real numbers come out anyway. I've always seen figures measured at the crankshaft to be a deceiving practice to benefit sales.

[AzCal Retred]

The DB34 numbers & the new Gold Star model power to weight numbers are within 5%. The new GS has room for improvement & still remain streetable & user friendly, just like the KLR650. The KLR bone stock makes 48 HP with room to grow to near 60, no reason to assume another similar modern engine won't make similar numbers. I don't understand why everyone's hair is on fire, it's a new clean sheet design from a company that hasn't made a new machine in over 50 years, rather like the Royal Enfield Interceptor was. Let the new Gold Star live or die on it's own merit. Nobody sane is going to whittle out from the solid a carbon copy of a DB34 in AD 2022 and sell it for $7000. That user base doesn't exist any more, new riders are unwilling to make that kind of effort. It's essentially an improved GB500, we'll see how the market responds.

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/BSA/BSA%20DBD34%20GS.htm
DB34 Bore & Stroke = 85 x 88 ; HP = 42 @ 7000 RPM ;
Wet Weight: DB34 - 420 pounds, New GS - 470
Power to weight, stock:
DB34 = 42/420=0.100 HP/pound
New GS = 45/470 0.095 HP/pound
Estimated new GS weight after removal of lead exhaust, ES, support battery = 440 pounds
Estimated HP new GS after EFI re-tune = 50
50/440 = 0.113 HP/pound

[AzCal Retred]

@ #21: " All the gimmicks are meaningless if it's a 90ish stroke and won't  be good to rev much further than 6000 revs. "
That's likely news to Ace & BW. The DB34 stroke was 88mm, within about 2% of the Bullet's 90mm stroke. Specs show 42 HP @ 7000 RPM. RPM is a function of crank/rod/piston inertial loading and valve train stiffness. Do you seriously want to argue that a DOHC 4 valve motor won't rev higher that a 2 valve pushrod motor?

Kawasaki set the KLR650 bore/stroke at 100mm x 83mm, dyno testing yields stock max power to the rear wheel (41.7) at 7100 RPM. Those numbers look familiar? At 100x83, it's likely the counterbalanced KLR could reliably run to 8500-9000, fragging speeds for the DB34 to live at.  Modern clean-sheet motors have 100 years of history to benefit from, better metallurgy, better design for extracting max power for a given displacement. Stock retail hardware always has some slack built in. Look at the basic 650 Enfield twin now being bumped to 850cc; they don't turn into grenades. Likely the new BSA has some wiggle room for modding too. There are members of the 650 forum spending amazing amounts to increase the performance of their 650's, it's all good fun - cheaper than going to the bar. Some folks here even mod their GT535's...To paraphrase a long time contributor "I just love these f***tards that come out and say it can't be done".

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/kawasaki_klr650%2006.htm

[Arschloch]

@ #21: " All the gimmicks are meaningless if it's a 90ish stroke and won't  be good to rev much further than 6000 revs. "
That's likely news to Ace & BW. The DB34 stroke was 88mm, within about 2% of the Bullet's 90mm stroke. Specs show 42 HP @ 7000 RPM. RPM is a function of crank/rod/piston inertial loading and valve train stiffness. Do you seriously want to argue that a DOHC 4 valve motor won't rev higher that a 2 valve pushrod motor?

Kawasaki set the KLR650 bore/stroke at 100mm x 83mm, dyno testing yields stock max power to the rear wheel (41.7) at 7100 RPM. Those numbers look familiar? At 100x83, it's likely the counterbalanced KLR could reliably run to 8500-9000, fragging speeds for the DB34 to live at.  Modern clean-sheet motors have 100 years of history to benefit from, better metallurgy, better design for extracting max power for a given displacement. Stock retail hardware always has some slack built in. Look at the basic 650 Enfield twin now being bumped to 850cc; they don't turn into grenades. Likely the new BSA has some wiggle room for modding too. There are members of the 650 forum spending amazing amounts to increase the performance of their 650's. it's all good fun - cheaper than going to the bar. Some folks here even mod their GT535's...To paraphrase a long time contributor "I just love these f***tards that come out and say it can't be done".

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/kawasaki_klr650%2006.htm

It can be done, you just need to find someone willing to pay for it. No it's not going to be cheaper than going to the bar, unless they charge you 3000$ fine at the bar for not being vaxxed as they plan to do in Austria. However i doubt the Austrian government is going to send that cash to anyone who is interested in tuning their bikes. And it's going to be exponentially more expensive than tuning an air cooled pushrod single.

[AzCal Retred]

" And it's going to be exponentially more expensive than tuning an air cooled pushrod single. "

Viczena would likely have something to say on that. His point that tuning an EFI system for greater than stock performance is easily done by those that know is indisputable. For a design that started as pure EFI, like the new Gold Star, it's probably going to be a cakewalk for those that educate themselves and have proper interface 'ware. That will be the future.

It you insist on adapting a carb & puzzling out the ignition kinks things likely will get dicey real fast, but that would definitely be a self-imposed obstacle. Hitchcock's has kindly removed the obstacles for those carb-obsessed Luddites amongst us for The UCE & Himalayan, but unless they dip their toes into BSA's wading pool, it's "cut-'n-try" time for future Gold Star owners that want to "retrofy" the new 'Star.

[Richard230]

I assume that the new Gold Star will not suffer from "megaphoneitis" and used racing carbs that had no idle circuit as did many highly-tuned British singles of the 1950's and 1960's. 

[AzCal Retred]

It's a mildly tuned, modern engine design machine the average rider can deal with. They specifically state that it's set up for greater midrange, likely why it's just shy of the KLR numbers. The EFI lets it start with the electric leg every time, regardless of if you are at the beach or at the Pike's Peak Burger Hut. They also state up front that more ponies are available, and that there will be two initial versions, about $2K different. Likely the $9K version has 8-12 HP more. We're in Viczena's world now with the BSA, and all the other wonder-boys that have figured out EFI tuning arcania. EFI is wonderful stuff, but to be able to play in the sandbox you'll need tools & training.

[Arschloch]

How exactly do you expect the efi to increase the power output in any meaningful way? The only real world advantages to efi is that it saves a meaningless amount of fuel and is more precise to keep tha stoichiometric ratio under all conditions which is a prerequisite for the cataclist to do a somewhat meaninful job.

You want more power, you have to dig into the engine layout, unless they placed some orifice in the intake to detune the engine that can be easily removed (tuning for the vaxxinated) it's going to be a mechanical adventure to tune it.

[Richard230]

How exactly do you expect the efi to increase the power output in any meaningful way? The only real world advantages to efi is that it saves a meaningless amount of fuel and is more precise to keep tha stoichiometric ratio under all conditions which is a prerequisite for the cataclist to do a somewhat meaninful job.

You want more power, you have to dig into the engine layout, unless they placed some orifice in the intake to detune the engine that can be easily removed (tuning for the vaxxinated) it's going to be a mechanical adventure to tune it.

What most owners of the Gold Star will likely do to increase HP will probably be to replace the (likely one piece) Euro 5-approved exhaust system with a megaphone system, followed by a K&N fabric filter, or if they are really old school, just replace the entire air filtering system with a piece of open drain pipe. Then it will really sound like it is making power. 

Which brings up my morning rant: During breakfast yesterday morning at Alice's Restaurant, there were some really loud sport cars. I saw one that looked to be a 5-year old BMW and some others that I could not identify. You could literally hear these things coming from over a mile away and when they arrived everyone in the restaurant had to stop talking because they couldn't hear themselves think.  How they get these cars to pass the state's every other year emission system inspection is beyond me. Once they arrived at the parking lot one of the drivers sat there and revved his engine for a couple of minutes before driving off in a cloud of noise.

During the three hours that I was at the restaurant I didn't hear one motorcycle that made enough noise to be noticeable. 

[Arschloch]

 ...

https://youtu.be/Z6qnRS36EgE

...maybe with so much masking up, they've got to release some smoke somewhere.

[Richard230]

TheMissendenFlyer takes a look at the new BSA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfMS-S4_G6c

[johnakay]

I wonder if BSA will bring out a 350 fury

[zimmemr]

I wonder if BSA will bring out a 350 fury

Good question, I wanted one badly back in the day. Fortunately the local BSA dealer was a pretty straight shooter and wouldn't take a deposit until BSA would confirm that they were ready to be shipped, which obviously they never were. FWIW he eventually became a Yamaha dealer and did fairly well. 

[Richard230]

I wonder if BSA will bring out a 350 fury

I hope not. I had put a $500 deposit down on one of those 350 Furys at my local BSA dealer (located only 3 miles away) after reading a glowing road test of the bike in the Cycle Guide magazine, and seeing the bike in the attached 1971 BSA brochure. Well, you know how that motorcycle purchase plan ended. 

[zimmemr]

I hope not. I had put a $500 deposit down on one of those 350 Furys at my local BSA dealer (located only 3 miles away) after reading a glowing road test of the bike in the Cycle Guide magazine, and seeing the bike in the attached 1971 BSA brochure. Well, you know how that motorcycle purchase plan ended. 

I hope you at least got your deposit back. 

[Arschloch]

Bilgemaster, you hit the nail on the head. That bike is an insult to anyone who has been in the presence of an actual BSA Goldie. Why not name these machines proudly Indian?

That's a good question. In the meanwhile we have to endure a pride parade almost every weekend demonstrating for animal rights. God was that an outcry VW testing diesel fumes on monkeys in mexico. They should have tested on humans no one would bother. Preferably on the god fearing Brazilians that crucify themselves voluntarily.

[AzCal Retred]

@ #37: How exactly do you expect the efi to increase the power output in any meaningful way? The only real world advantages to efi is that it saves a meaningless amount of fuel and is more precise to keep tha stoichiometric ratio under all conditions which is a prerequisite for the cataclist to do a somewhat meaninful job.

Well, you could start with the 650 & UCE section where folks are using the tuners to increase both drivability & power. EFI allows accurate metering under a highly variable set of real world conditions, like altitude/air density, air temperature, etc. Viczena has lectured long & hard on this. Many members here have dyno time verifying it. Personally my 24mm carb on my 2002 ES350 works adequately for my needs, but 16-18 HP isn't hard to come by.
"Bee not the first by whom the new is tried, nor the last to cast the olds aside" B. Franklin

[Warwick]

duplicate

[AzCal Retred]

Can you imagine a salesman trying to sell one of these to a modern customer? Likely a serious buyer would have to start it for the salesman. EFI & electric start are a requirement now - imagine trying to retrofit that to a DB34.

350cc BSA Gold Star start up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtdOr0M3mRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWNV-2UFquE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r_iwSPXuks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVDdLf39g3w

[Richard230]

I hope you at least got your deposit back. 

I did, but it took a year before my dealer finally heard the official word that the bike would not be coming to the U.S. and refunded my deposit.

[Karl Childers]

 I wanted one of these, they did make it to the US but not into my garage. A friend has a nice restored one in his cellar, sadly it never gets ridden

[Richard230]

Here are the rest of the pages from the 1971 BSA brochure.

[Richard230]

And the last one.

[AzCal Retred]

R230 - thanks for posting, what a trip down memory lane. Amazing how in the wayback that merely by adding different bars, front fender, and maybe an exhaust pipe the factory could convert a road burner to a trail bike. Shades of Hodaka! 

[Karl Childers]

BSA and Triumph in the late 60's had a very nice twin leading shoe brake , BSA's next front brake offering seen on the bikes in the pictures was the conical hub brake. It quickly earned the nickname "comical hub brake" it performed so poorly compared to the previous TLS.  By that point the handwriting was already on the wall for BSA. The Rocket Three was the last hurrah but even that was a sales flop at least in the States due to it's styling.

[Richard230]

Here are a couple of photos of the dealership that used to sell BSAs in Pacifica located near the beach. I think these photos were probably taken during the late 1970's, about the time that I bought a 1977 Yamaha SR500 from the shop. The building is now occupied by a surf shop and a couple of other businesses.

[GlennF]

Probably the most famous BSA of all time among non-motorcyclists is Michael Lang's Shooting Star (Victor) that featured in the original Woodstock movie ....

[Karl Childers]

Groovy bike for a groovy time!

[gizzo]

Anyone remember this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SmM5ygFOso

[Karl Childers]

Anyone remember this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SmM5ygFOso

Put that against a sound track of bongo drums and staccato delivery you have Beat poetry of the 1950's, think Kerouac and Ginsberg. Take away the synthesized music and amp up the delivery  some more and you have contemporary Slam poetry. I like all three. The Punk era had its moments!

[AzCal Retred]

Something for the Luddites!!   

https://ventura.craigslist.org/mpo/d/ventura-1967-bsa-b44ea-victor-special/7411037225.html
1967 BSA B44EA Victor Special - $1,200 (Ventura)
Classic British Dirt Machine suit rebuild/racing.
Engine Turns, not running, parked for years. Has a C15 or similar front end on at present. Sold with Bill of Sale.


https://ventura.craigslist.org/mpo/d/simi-valley-yamaha-xt500/7408243432.html
Yamaha xt500 - $800 (Simi Valley)77 Yamaha xt500. registered non-operational. . Headlight and tail light intact no turn signals. Has extra parts like spare tire and rim and miscellaneous parts to go with bike. Priced to sell title on hand

[AzCal Retred]

Engine doesn't seem to have had a vibration issue as the "Funduro", likely the GS will be similar...?

https://www.autocarindia.com/bike-news/bsa-gold-star-engine-india-launch-details-revealed-422907

Engine based on Rotax 650 single
Project development handled by Ricardo
India launch a possibility in the distant future

BSA Gold Star engine 
The large capacity single-cylinder is all but dead in the modern era, especially in markets with strict emission norms. However, with its 652cc capacity, a 4-valve, dual overhead camshaft (DOHC), liquid-cooled design and the drive chain on the right side, the Gold Star’s engine looked very similar to an engine we have experienced in India in the distant past – the one used on the BMW F650 Funduro from well over two decades ago. This engine was built by Austrian engineering firm Rotax, and the new BSA motor is also licensed from them.
Understandably, the BSA motor is a heavily reworked, modernised version with fuel-injection and Euro 5 compliance. The enormous task of meeting modern emissions and refinement standards was handled in conjunction with the highly respected Technical University of Graz, in Austria. TU Graz also handled the visual design of the engine, which is completely different from the base Rotax engine, and made to look as similar to the original Gold Star singles as possible.
This motor makes 45hp and 55Nm, which is a little lower on power, but has more torque when compared to the Royal Enfield Interceptor 650. Top speed is 166kph and future variants of this engine could make more power.
Classic Legends plans to have the Gold Star on sale in the UK by the start of the riding season, which is generally around the end of March. The motorcycles will be manufactured in India for now, but Classic Legends says that it is working on opening a new assembly facility in the UK, and that, eventually, manufacturing will be split between India and the UK. This facility will be different to the government grant-issued EV facility that is being used to develop the EV BSA. That project is being managed by the Warrick University and is still some time away from commercial launch.
Classic Legends currently has no dealer network in the UK because the Jawa licence allows for motorcycles to only be sold in India and a few Asian markets. Thareja states that while there will be some flagship stores, a majority of the BSA sales will be through existing multi-brand dealers in the UK.
As for whether these bikes will be sold in India, Thareja doesn’t rule it out, but adds that it won’t be any time soon. The immediate priority is to first sell in the UK, then expand to neighbouring Europe, followed by the US market. India will be considered only after that. He added that there is particular interest in the US and South American market as well.
More significantly, there is also the concern of the BSA trademark being owned by the TI Murugappa Group in India. Thareja states that they have not yet sorted this out because it was not a priority and that he couldn’t comment further on it. This is also why he also couldn’t comment on the India launch. However, he went on to state that he doesn’t think it should be an issue, ‘because there is no animosity there’.
If and when the BSA Gold Star eventually comes to India, do you think Classic Legends will be able to price it competitively against the Royal Enfield 650s? And if so, would you be interested in a large single over a parallel twin? Let us know in the comments section below.
Copyright (c) Autocar India. All rights reserved

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ag1nxd2tHk
BMW F650 Review (1997)
Funduro riding review

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/bmw/f650/1993/
BMW F650 (1993 - 2007) Review

https://www.motorcycle.com/features/church-of-mo-first-impression-1997-bmw-f650.html
While engine vibration makes some dual-sport singles a chore to ride at freeway speeds, the F650 is as smooth as many multis. Cruising at 75 mph is comfortable, and vibration isn’t more than a mild buzzing. Only at 80 mph and beyond does the buzz increase to the point of annoyance. However, buffeting at these speeds is tiresome due to the tall windscreen. Here the street-only F650ST’s lower screen would be preferable. Seat comfort is good, allowing several hundred miles to pass without complaint. Fuel mileage was excellent with a combination of fast freeway and city riding yielding 50 miles per gallon. With its generous 4.6 gallon tank, a cruising range of 230 miles is possible.

[Richard230]

I owned a 1997 BMW Funduro for 10 years and I was the 260th person to join the on-line Chain Gang forum the following year. I agree with the comments above. The engine was very durable (pretty much bomb-proof) and smooth below 80 mph. Plus, fuel mileage was typically between 60 and 70 mpg. The engine was built and designed by Rotax in Austria, while the rest of the bike was assembled in Italy for BMW in an Aprilia factory, I believe. On my bike the only weak area were the electrics, which started to give me starting troubles after 10 years, so I traded it in on a new 2009 (built in June 2008) BMW (800cc) F650GS twin and have been very happy with that decision as the twin is even stronger and more refined than was the single. The 650cc engine was also used in BMW's F650CS, belt-drive single, which had the fuel tank at the right rear of the bike, while the area normally used as a gas tank contained a large depression with a fabric cover that could be used to carry small items. I think BMW called it a "funk". 

I might add that around 2005-6 BMW shifted the building of the Funduro engine to a Chinese factory and then changed the bike's name to F650GS (single), which has caused some confusion with the twin when ordering parts, resulting in BMW then calling the F650GS 800cc twin the F700GS - but still having the same 800cc engine. Several other models were called F800S,ST,GS and GT, depending upon the chassis design. The GT was belt driven. All of the 800cc twins, as well as the 650 single have now been discontinued by BMW, which is likely why the 650cc single design is now available to other builders.

Anyway, if the new BSA Gold Star actually uses the old Funduro engine, that is a very good choice and anyone owning that bike should be very happy with its performance and durability - assuming that it is being built to the same standards as it was previously.

[AzCal Retred]

Newer article...

BSA Gold Star 650 Detailed In First Official TVC – On The Road PEARL DANIELS DECEMBER 13, 2021

https://www.rushlane.com/bsa-gold-star-650-tvc-on-the-road-official-12420172.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQSuDymZd2U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH-SdsVManM

2022 BSA Gold Star First Look
Another British brand from the past returns thanks to Indian money.
By Ben Purvis  December 16, 2021
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/2022-bsa-gold-star-first-look-preview/
Like Royal Enfield and Norton, BSA also uses British expertise, with R&D facilities in the UK, and plans to set up a manufacturing base near Birmingham in the UK Midlands. It’s a kind of homecoming for the firm, since BSA started life as a gun-maker, Birmingham Small Arms, before branching out into bicycles in the late 19th century and then motorcycles in 1910. Originally, Classic Legends and Mahindra planned to have the UK manufacturing and development facilities up and running by now, but delays due to the COVID-19 pandemic mean the initial bikes are set to be made at the firm’s Indian facilities.

[Carl Fenn]

I think we must not be confused this is a BSA in bought name only although it’s  made to look similar, of course not forgetting it will be euro 5 or even 6 so any tuning will be very limited indeed, but will it be reliable, well judging by the money they have sunk into the new brand they can’t afford it not to be, l doubt it will be like my old rides in the 70s in fact l remain sure it won’t but still a nice looking bike.

[GlennF]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd_hfg9RqDQ

[AzCal Retred]

Here's another plan - I found a running Funduro for sale on Craigslist for $1200 USD, several more at sub-$3K prices. That leaves approximately $5K to add exhaust, tank, fenders & a gaudy BSA badge...make your own "Pinchbeck's Star"? Pinche Star? Pyrite Star? In any event, you can DIY a "Gold Star" and experience the wonderfulness of that old 650 Beemer hammer for quite a bit less than $7K-$9K USD. Unblock your creativity! 

https://finemetalworking.com/metals-that-look-like-gold#3-pinchbeck
Pinchbeck, named after its inventor, Christopher Pinchbeck, is an alloy of 83% copper and 17% zinc, used to imitate gold. It’s far cheaper than gold and is famously used in stage jewelry.

https://tinyrituals.co/blogs/tiny-rituals/pyrite-meaning-healing-properties-everyday-uses#:~:text=Pyrite%20is%20an%20iron%20sulfide,by%20the%20name%20Fools%20Gold.&text=Pyrite's%20meaning%20is%20purity%20and%20unblocks%20creativity.
Pyrite is an iron sulfide mineral with a metallic luster. It has and a brassy coloring that is similar to gold, because of this resemblance it is also known by the name Fools Gold. It comes from the cubic crystal system and has an opaque transparency and a brittle texture. Pyrite's meaning is purity and unblocks creativity.

[Carl Fenn]

Well l think when you discuss the Funduro you discuss a real motorbike one they knew how to build l still have my German built gs 650.

[AzCal Retred]

It's the same engine as the new Gold Star. It should run the same, yes? So far all I've read about the Funduro powerplant is that it's a nice torquey hammer, not a grenade. Bore & stroke are the same as the 650 KLR Kawasaki, another proven hammer. I'm not seeing how the new BSA will be anything other that stone reliable, barring any electronical weirdness.

[AzCal Retred]

Ride the Gold Star: Reborn BSA reveal plans for Goldie test rides: 26 April 2022

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2022-bsa-gold-star/
BSA caused a stir towards the end of 2021 when a gleaming new Gold Star stole the show at the NEC in Birmingham – and you should soon be able to sling a leg over one.
India’s Mahindra Group, one of the world’s largest automotive and engineering conglomerates, bought the BSA brand in 2016. The firm are still working on plans to build a factory in Birmingham with more than 200 jobs promised and are also developing a robust dealer network. They now say that the Gold Star, a 650cc single, will be hitting those dealers in June with test rides available shortly after.
The looks are inspired by the original Gold Star, but underneath the retro looks is a modern, liquid-cooled, four-valve single. Claimed power output is a steady, but A2 licence and Euro5 compatible, 45bhp which should give a top speed of fractionally over 100mph.
Two models are planned: the base version a higher spec Legacy Edition with chrome mudguards and engine highlights, plus silver paint like the Clubman’s Goldies of the late 1950s.
You can register an interest and be contacted about a demo ride by applying online now.


https://www.webbikeworld.com/bsa-gold-star-everything-we-know/
Motorcycle News·February 11, 2022·12
A CALL TO ARMS: Everything We Know about the New BSA Gold Star
From all reports, the other tech specs will be pretty much on par with the 650 Twin, too. The engine, designed by Rotax, will have a 652cc single with twin overhead cams and four valves. Torque and horsepower specs are almost identical to that of the Enfield’s; 40.6 pound-feet and 4,000 rpm, compared to 38.6 pound-feet at 5,150 rpm for the Royal Enfield engine. Weight will also be similar at around 215 kilos (470 lbs).
The BSA Gold Star is scheduled to go on sale in the first half of 2022, COVID and computer chip shortages notwithstanding. Reports put the retail price in the UK at around £5000.  (nominally $6,500 USD -ACR-)

[GlennF]

Ironically the bike that has the most genuine BSA heritage is the Kawasaki W800 that can trace it's lineage all the way back to the BSA A7 twin of the 1950's.

After the Kawasaki takeover of Meguro motorcycles in the 1960's they ended up in possession of a licensing agreement with BSA to make a version of the A7. They then revamped the design in typical Japanese fashion and the result was the W1 Kawasaki the first of a long series of "W" series bikes all the way down to the current W800.

Here is a W1 ...



.. and here is a 1956 A7

[AzCal Retred]

So which reworked, resurrected liquid cooled parallel twin engine is BSA going to use for their new Golden Flash? The old "Funduro" is holding down the fort quite well here. KTM 950 twin? Triumph Thruxton 1200? Yamaha FZ07? BMW F-series? There's no harm in using a proven design, and HP really isn't the issue.

China is making lots of hardware for Benelli, maybe BSA as well with some custom side covers?
https://www.kiratas.com/900-series-twin-from-china-possible-two-cylinder-for-benelli/

[AzCal Retred]

https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/bsa-give-update-release-gold-star-650

BSA GIVE UPDATE ON THE RELEASE OF THE GOLD STAR 650
The Gold Star 650 was supposed to be in dealers already from this month.
By Alex WhitworthMon, 28 Mar 2022

BSA announced in December 2021 that their new Gold Star 650 will be available in dealers from March 2022.
It is now March 2022, and the bikes remain absent. So what is going on?
Now it has become clear, through official information from BSA, that the Gold Star 650 will be available in dealers from June 2022, with a possibility of them arriving a month earlier, in May 2022
BSA have also said that, “We are currently building our dealer network and hope to share more details on the network as well as the price by May.”
Finally, BSA says that press reviews are expected to begin in April or May, so we could be as little as a few weeks away from our first proper look at the BSA Gold Star 650.

[Richard230]

Which April or May would that be?   

[AzCal Retred]

Sounds like a nice "Mom 'n Pop" 'Bidness Opportunity for some astute 'Frisco dweller...

[AzCal Retred]

There's still time to get that 'Frisco BSA Dealership up and running...
"How to make a Small Fortune: First, start with a LARGE fortune..."

https://www.rideapart.com/news/577410/bsa-gold-star-650-delay/
Mahindra Delays BSA Gold Star 650 Launch Until May, 2022
Building out the dealer network before the rollout: Published Apr 01, 2022
With Brembo brakes, a 469.5-pound curb weight, and period-correct paint options, the BSA Gold Star 650 looks poised for a showdown with Royal Enfield’s 650 Twins. Unfortunately, BSA’s U.K. and E.U. dealerships aren’t similarly prepared to roll out the new throwback standard just yet. The brand initially pegged the Gold Star to hit showrooms in March, 2022. Well, March has come and gone, but the BSAs are still nowhere to be found.
As a result of the setback, the revived nameplate will continue to develop its European dealer network and aim to officially launch its maiden model in May, 2022, with units reaching dealership floors in June, 2022. BSA will introduce the Gold Star 650 to key European markets first before expanding to the U.S. and South America.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2022-bsa-gold-star/
Ride the Gold Star: Reborn BSA reveal plans for Goldie test rides ; Published: 26 April 2022
India’s Mahindra Group, one of the world’s largest automotive and engineering conglomerates, bought the BSA brand in 2016. The firm are still working on plans to build a factory in Birmingham with more than 200 jobs promised and are also developing a robust dealer network. They now say that the Gold Star, a 650cc single, will be hitting those dealers in June with test rides available shortly after.
The looks are inspired by the original Gold Star, but underneath the retro looks is a modern, liquid-cooled, four-valve single. Claimed power output is a steady, but A2 licence and Euro5 compatible, 45bhp which should give a top speed of fractionally over 100mph.
Two models are planned: the base version a higher spec Legacy Edition with chrome mudguards and engine highlights, plus silver paint like the Clubman’s Goldies of the late 1950s.
You can register an interest and be contacted about a demo ride by applying online now.

[AzCal Retred]

Good pics of a show, appears to be maybe 10 "complete" New Gold Stars of various trims dotted around a large show set. It took some cash to assemble all this. So the bike isn't vaporware, and with a known quantity engine IDK what the big hold up would be, it shouldn't be emissions. Maybe "supply chain"?  Anyhow, I'm looking forward to visiting R230's new 'Frisco dealership about 100 miles north of me...

BSA to launch the 2022 650cc Gold Star in May 2022 ; Vivek Sharma, April 2, 2022
https://livingwithgravity.com/bsa-to-launch-the-2022-650cc-gold-star-in-may-2022/#:~:text=Mahindra%20%26%20Mahindra%20has%20set%20a,date%20but%20delayed%20the%20project.
Mahindra & Mahindra has set a new launch date for its 2022 BSA Gold Star as May 2022. The Indian manufacturer acquired the rights to the historic brand name in 2016 and was initially scheduled to launch the bike at an earlier date but delayed the project.

[Richard230]

Good pics of a show, appears to be maybe 10 "complete" New Gold Stars of various trims dotted around a large show set. It took some cash to assemble all this. So the bike isn't vaporware, and with a known quantity engine IDK what the big hold up would be, it shouldn't be emissions. Maybe "supply chain"?  Anyhow, I'm looking forward to visiting R230's new 'Frisco dealership about 100 miles north of me...

BSA to launch the 2022 650cc Gold Star in May 2022 ; Vivek Sharma, April 2, 2022
https://livingwithgravity.com/bsa-to-launch-the-2022-650cc-gold-star-in-may-2022/#:~:text=Mahindra%20%26%20Mahindra%20has%20set%20a,date%20but%20delayed%20the%20project.
Mahindra & Mahindra has set a new launch date for its 2022 BSA Gold Star as May 2022. The Indian manufacturer acquired the rights to the historic brand name in 2016 and was initially scheduled to launch the bike at an earlier date but delayed the project.

If you visit Scuderia West in San Francisco to buy anything, be sure to hang on tight to your wallet as they will try to clean it out for you, especially when it come to buying a motorcycle. If the BSA models ever hit that shop they will really find some way to jack up the MSRP before you get it out the door. 

And speaking of new motorcycle sales: I have a friend that told me this weekend that he was looking at a new Triumph model that listed for around $9K USD and the dealer wanted an additional $3000 over the MSRP for transportation, plus another $750 for uncrating, assembly and setup.  He also told me that new Japanese motorcycles were almost impossible to find at dealerships in the SF Bay Area. Everyone is completely out of stock. It is a tough time for both dealerships and their customers, even auto dealers. A few days ago the radio news mentioned that Subaru only had a 3-day supply of vehicles in the U.S. right now.   

[Carl Fenn]

I think BSA have run into serious problems, one there are delays with the bikes, and to they have no sales or network dealerships it’s not such an easy thing to launch a brand new brand of bike as they are finding out.

[Richard230]

There are several new YouTube clips floating around that are saying that H-D is stopping production of motorcycles at their York plant due to possible supply issues and/or critical component problems. If H-D is having issues building bikes, maybe BSA is also. 

[Carl Fenn]

Well it’s difficult to put your finger on so many rumours flying around, but one thing is certain there will be no June launch l don’t think problems in New York would have a direct link to what is occurring in lndia l read there were network issues.

[Yinzer]

Looks like an anaconda crawling out of a shithouse.
I'll bet they sell 10

Still better than this flying bug zapper thing Norton came up with.

[Karl Childers]

Looks like an anaconda crawling out of a shithouse.

Best descriptive I've heard in a long time! 

[GlennF]

Reasonable bet, after Topgun2 comes out, the bike that sells like hotcakes is going to be a Ninja H2 not a reinvented BSA.

[Carl Fenn]

Ho the reinvented bike with a BSA badge on the tank.

[AzCal Retred]

The Amurrikan auto industry has been selling cars that way for 100 years. PT Barnum was really on to something, eh?

[Arschloch]

The Amurrikan auto industry has been selling cars that way for 100 years. PT Barnum was really on to something, eh?

This time it looks like there may not be enough topgun2 consumers with deep enough pockets.

[GlennF]

A lot of online click bait talks about a HR2 in the movie but it is definitely just a H2 .

[Richard230]

This time it looks like there may not be enough topgun2 consumers with deep enough pockets.

Speaking of Top Gun 2 I just heard on the news that those are real FA-18 planes being flown in the film. The movie producers paid the Navy $11,500 an hour to rent them. Needless to say that the actors were not actually flying the planes, however they did get to sit in the back seat of the jet and had to become qualified on how to use the injection seat in an emergency. I bet it would be cheaper to make a film with a gaggle of BSAs as a prop in the movie. 

[GlennF]

Speaking of Top Gun 2 I just heard on the news that those are real FA-18 planes being flown in the film. The movie producers paid the Navy $11,500 an hour to rent them. Needless to say that the actors were not actually flying the planes, however they did get to sit in the back seat of the jet and had to become qualified on how to use the injection seat in an emergency. I bet it would be cheaper to make a film with a gaggle of BSAs as a prop in the movie. 

Not every shot is real. The combat manoeuvres in the film, aside from being unrealistic almost certainly exceed every operational "prohibited manoeuvre" rule the Navy has and would not be permitted with real F18's.

As for the actors, Cruise himself is a very experienced pilot, even owns a restored P51,  but almost certainly will not be F18 endorsed.

Cost-wise, $11500 is approximately the cost of fuel for an hour in an F18 in cruise. So the navy is basically charging for fuel used.  That fuel cost can go up radically, an F18 using after burner could use 72000 lbs of fuel an hour though you are never on afterburner for sustained periods and the F18 typically only holds 14000 lbs max fuel anyway.

A good review by a couple of real world fighter pilots with time in Tomcats and Hornets  (take away best quote "even if the plot is stupid, if I like nothing else abut this movie ... it's jet porn " :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMkHUzGI_P8

[gizzo]

A good review by a couple of real world fighter pilots with time in Tomcats and Hornets  (take away best quote "even if the plot is stupid, if I like nothing else abut this movie ... it's jet porn " :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMkHUzGI_P8

Another is Les Chevaliers du ciel. It's a lame and badly acted film but the flying scenes are pure sky porn.

[GlennF]

Another is Les Chevaliers du ciel. It's a lame and badly acted film but the flying scenes are pure sky porn.

My favourite aircraft movie is the Czech made Tmavomodrý svět  (Dark Blue World) ...  one of the better done scenes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgYILJ1-x-Q

[GlennF]

Another video of the new 2022 BSA, sounds quite agricultural  ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6cqmoaRR6k

[richard211]

Another video of the new 2022 BSA, sounds quite agricultural  ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6cqmoaRR6k

 Not surprising since Mahindra that owns BSA also makes tractors. Sounds horrible.

[Carl Fenn]

Nine grand just a little bit expensive for me it’s not the gold star totally not.

[AzCal Retred]

I'll sell you my 1999 500 Deluxe for $7000, $2000 less than the new BSA Gold Star, and you can enjoy the same "mechanical immersion experience" at a good discount! 

Honestly, I dunno why guys here would complain about a niche-market one-lunger Brit-Bike Replica machine making actual machine noises.
Honda/Yamaha/Kawasaki/Suzuki has the quiet bike arena well in hand. The Kamikaze W800 is at least $9200 OTD. Next you'll be complaining about the Gold Wing vibrating too much...

[Arschloch]

Well because it´s true, doesn´t sound exactly anything near like a manx or even the original bsa goldstar. I don´t know why anyone would want a bike with a briggs & stratton engine in it to be honest.

Than it comes with an huge water cooler. WTF?

[Warwick]

Sounds great! Just like a big single. Would sound even better with a different exhaust!

[AzCal Retred]

@ #97: +1!!  That muffler is definitely designed to NOT offend the publics ears. A megaphone would be a whole 'nuther werld...

As a modern design water pumper you could make it faster, if there was some point to it. That old "Funduro" motor has likely been well sorted by BMW already. Others here have said that their Funduros were veritable hammers, probably more so than the vintage Goldstars ever were.

If it was an actual 1960 Goldstar reproduction, firstly it'd never see the public road unless you lived in Texas, and secondly the numbers of paying customers that could actually start & ride away on one would be microscopic. Sales wise that's death.

I have no idea why a repro-rebadged-Funduro is being (reputedly) marketed for $9K, but there's always "that guy" that has to have the new thing. $5500 would be a better neighborhood, at least there'd be maybe $1000 cushion between it a new RE 650 Interceptor.

[gizzo]

My favourite aircraft movie is the Czech made Tmavomodrý svět  (Dark Blue World) ...  one of the better done scenes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgYILJ1-x-Q

Oh man. getting away with being shot at, having fuel pour over you, crashing your plane and getting out before it catches fire, then have the fire follow your dribbles of fuel: that'd give you the shits.

[Richard230]

@ #97: +1!!  That muffler is definitely designed to NOT offend the publics ears. A megaphone would be a whole 'nuther werld...

As a modern design water pumper you could make it faster, if there was some point to it. That old "Funduro" motor has likely been well sorted by BMW already. Others here have said that their Funduros were veritable hammers, probably more so than the vintage Goldstars ever were.

If it was an actual 1960 Goldstar reproduction, firstly it'd never see the public road unless you lived in Texas, and secondly the numbers of paying customers that could actually start & ride away on one would be microscopic. Sales wise that's death.

I have no idea why a repro-rebadged-Funduro is being (reputedly) marketed for $9K, but there's always "that guy" that has to have the new thing. $5500 would be a better neighborhood, at least there'd be maybe $1000 cushion between it a new RE 650 Interceptor.

When I bought my Funduro in 1997, I paid $7,500 for the bike.

[Carl Fenn]

Oh 1997 l remember those days of fun, the funduro was expensive but what a bike to die for.

[AzCal Retred]

Isn't the BSA motor India sourced? If RE can sell their India built twin for under $6500, certainly the BSA can hit similar numbers. The lower the retail, the larger their potential sales group. IF you could buy the same Funduro in 2022 as you did in 1997 for less money, that would be a real deal, right? You could always get a new Husqvarna Svartpilen 701 for a cool $9,500, maybe $3k more. The Funduro motor was a proven hammer, as long as that essence remains, the BSA should be a solid effort.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2022-bsa-gold-star/
"Expect pricing to be between £5000 and £6000" ($6,500 to $7,800 USD)

[axman88]

Isn't the BSA motor India sourced? If RE can sell their India built twin for under $6500, certainly the BSA can hit similar numbers. The lower the retail, the larger their potential sales group. IF you could buy the same Funduro in 2022 as you did in 1997 for less money, that would be a real deal, right? You could always get a new Husqvarna Svartpilen 701 for a cool $9,500, maybe $3k more. The Funduro motor was a proven hammer, as long as that essence remains, the BSA should be a solid effort.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2022-bsa-gold-star/
"Expect pricing to be between £5000 and £6000" ($6,500 to $7,800 USD)

Today's article in Bikewale pushes the price bar a bit higher, GBP 6,800 to 7,000 is more like $8200 USD.  https://www.bikewale.com/news/royal-enfield-interceptor-650-rivalling-bsa-gold-star-prices-revealed/

If, as the article says, the comparable price of an RE Interceptor is $6200, it seems like British buyers are being asked to pay at least a few hundred more for their RE 650s than we here in the USA are.  Perhaps higher import duties?

But will these new Gold Stars be brought to the US, and if so will they be offered for sale alongside shiny red Mahindra tractors?  I've seen several articles that have said "new BSA's will be available from dealers" on such and such a date, but no elaboration of who those dealers will be.  Are there existing BSA dealers in the UK?  Is Classic Legends selling the Jawa motobikes there?

[Richard230]

Speaking of prices: the Euro is now at parity with the U.S. dollar. Meanwhile the GBP continues to drop and is around $1.18 USD. But that does make it less expensive when a U.S. customer is ordering something from Hitchcock. I don't know about the UK, but anyone in the EU and using the Euro is going to get shafted for whatever they buy this summer and likely winter, too - like gas and oil. 

[AzCal Retred]

(12 July 2022)  2022 BSA Gold Star - price, distribution, warranty, servicing & delivery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czSHA9zi59U

Going for a Gold Star: BSA’s new owners aim for refinement and authenticity with all-new model
Published: 12 July 2022
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2022-bsa-gold-star/
Where is the Gold Star made?
Back when it was announced, the plan was to build the Gold Star here in the Midlands but is this still the case? Well, for now at least, the answer is no. BSA have produced the first models in India where all the tooling has been made but the hope is still to move to a plant the Midlands in the future.

https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/bsa-announces-new-uk-and-ireland-distributor-ahead-gold-star-launch

[Warwick]

I got into RE bullets as it was a long stroke single and now the 500 is discontinued. I watch this bike with great interest 
cheers and beers
Warwick

[AzCal Retred]

I saw a BMW "Funduro" on Craigslist today for $1500, same engine as the new $8500 USD Goldstar...so DIY? Some good tires, a nice exhaust and a bit of fettling and you'd be there. Loads of Bullet & other make tinware available. Of get a Suzuki 5-speed S40 650 single and start with that, or a KLR 650 Kawasaki, or....

The venerable Pre-Unit Bullet 350/500 has a 50 year production history and its parts are still plentiful. Even the newer UCE machine bits are easy to source. Elsewhere here R211 shows how to create a crank mounted ignition, and once you have spark without an ECU then a carb is no trouble at all to segue into. Nothing wrong with a long stroke, hydraulic valved, carbureted pushrod single. Don't forget to replace the OEM primary chain with an upgraded part and de-fang the tensioner.

The new OHC 350 Meteor is virtually the same stroke as the old machines, and the upcoming (450cc?) Big Bore kit from H's will allow it to meet or exceed the pushrod motors performance levels, and do all that with a smooth, counterbalanced engine.

Lots of options here.

[pedro__]

It looks amazing the new goldstar. Nice color schemes too.

[AzCal Retred]

The $64,000 question remains; why is the new India-built, faux Goldstar rebadge of the Funduro one lunger apparently slated to be maybe $2000 more than an R.E. twin? Just early days pricing to skim max-profit off the first-in, must-have adopters? This has to be a $5,000ish machine to compete and gain sales against the "traditionally styled" Interceptor. Being manufactured in India, I'm not seeing why the retail price would need to be in the suggested $8,500 range with the R.E. Interceptor retailing around $5,500 - $6,500.

BSA/Triumph went the 2/3/4 cylinder route to follow the actual market. There's still no Triumph dual purpose single. The new BSA looks like a very nice stand alone effort, I just can't see how they'll get new buyers to justify an additional $2000.

Here's some new info. The reviewer compares & contrasts it to the R.E. Interceptor.
15 July 2022:  2022 BSA Gold Star - first ride review & old vs new
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AQWhJG14Qg

[axman88]

The $64,000 question remains; why is the new India-built, faux Goldstar rebadge of the Funduro one lunger apparently slated to be maybe $2000 more than an R.E. twin? Just early days pricing to skim max-profit off the first-in, must-have adopters? This has to be a $5,000ish machine to compete and gain sales against the "traditionally styled" Interceptor. Being manufactured in India, I'm not seeing why the retail price would need to be in the suggested $8,500 range with the R.E. Interceptor retailing around $5,500 - $6,500.

BSA/Triumph went the 2/3/4 cylinder route to follow the actual market. There's still no Triumph dual purpose single. The new BSA looks like a very nice stand alone effort, I just can't see how they'll get new buyers to justify an additional $2000.

Here's some new info. The reviewer compares & contrasts it to the R.E. Interceptor.
15 July 2022:  2022 BSA Gold Star - first ride review & old vs new
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AQWhJG14Qg

In my previous post I used a $ where I should have used a GBP £ symbol.

This article places relative UK pricing between the new Gold Star and the RE Int. much closer: 

https://www.autocarindia.com/bike-news/bsa-gold-star-650-uk-prices-leaked-placed-above-re-interceptor-650-425100

The article doesn't include USA pricing, which hasn't been announced for the BSA.  The $ numbers are my conversions at current conversion rates.  USA price is per your estimate avg.

                                    India                                 UK                     USA
650 Interceptor      ~3.0 lahk rupee ($3760)    ~£6,200  ($7360)      ~$6500
BSA Gold Star 650     Not announced               ~£6,800  ($8070)    not announced

UK will pay just a £690 premium.  Presumably, US buyers would pay proportionately ~$830, if we get access to the machine at all.

If Classic Legends is intending to only sell this to the UK, they must not be planning to make very many, total UK motorcycle sales for 2021 was ~108,000 units.
https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/uk-motorcycle-sales-2021-exceed-totals-2020-and-2019-month-go#:~:text=It%20means%20sales%20for%20the,a%20month%20still%20to%20go.

Projecting the single model selling the most units in Nov. '21 over 12 months, ( Congratulations Royal Enfield Meteor with 284 units) and assuming this new BSA narrowly takes top slot, that would still only be something like 3500 units over a year.   I'd assume Classic Legends intends to expand their market.

[pedro__]

Brakes on the video are really brembo ! Quite surprised by that.

And they are using rotax engine right ? So they arent making engines just buying them.

They must have good margins on these.... its strange to price them above interceptor.


Im not sure if i would get it though, id rather have 2 cilinder.

[pedro__]

Bennets released a new video about bsa, i like this guy, very shill free, seems really a good person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvoBMh6G-no&t=4s

So the BSA director says their future is electric....so this seems to be just a side gig to fund that electric bike maybe ?

In honesty even japonese are doing same, refreshing same motorcycles with same engine every year to fund EV production.

[GlennF]

So the BSA director says their future is electric....so this seems to be just a side gig to fund that electric bike maybe ?

In honesty even japonese are doing same, refreshing same motorcycles with same engine every year to fund EV production.

To be honest the big issue in 10 years time will not be finding petrol motorcycles, there will be truckloads of second hand ones going for a dime. it will be finding somewhere that still sells gas.

[Richard230]

To be honest the big issue in 10 years time will not be finding petrol motorcycles, there will be truckloads of second hand ones going for a dime. it will be finding somewhere that still sells gas.

I can buy stabilized non-ethanol gasoline designed for powering gas-powered lawn equipment in a really nice metal can for only $30 a gallon at my local hardware store. Just like in the good old days before roadside gas stations (and their attached "convenience" stores) were a thing.   

[tooseevee]

I can buy stabilized non-ethanol gasoline designed for powering gas-powered lawn equipment in a really nice metal can for only $30 a gallon at my local hardware store. Just like in the good old days before roadside gas stations (and their attached "convenience" stores) were a thing.   

            I started buying canned pure gasoline from my local Ace Hardware a few years when it was around $16 a gallon. I think it was $26 when I was in there a few days ago.

[axman88]

I can buy stabilized non-ethanol gasoline designed for powering gas-powered lawn equipment in a really nice metal can for only $30 a gallon at my local hardware store.

And this future scenario is exactly why what GlennF is saying will come to pass.  Driving the old gas buggy will become a once a year event where, at considerable expense, you can ride in parade with the model Ts, muscle cars and land yachts.  I've never been a "new car" guy, but it really seems like the handwriting is on the wall.  If there's a collector car you've always wanted, wait a while longer until the lower 3/4 of the market is decimated.

I wonder if our IB Bullet engines can run on naptha?  It has an octane rating in the low 60s.  It's not cheap, but, cheaper than california canned gas.  https://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-Butane-and-Propane-1-Gallon-Camping-Stove-Replacement-Fuel/20703040

The off brand stuff might be almost competitive with pump gas:  https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crown-White-Gas-Camp-Fuel-for-Use-in-Gasoline-Stoves-and-Lanterns-1-Gallon/51741744

Mixed 65/35 with 150 octane Acetone, you could probably formulate something that any gasoline engine would burn, for $11.75 / gallon.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Klean-Strip-Acetone-1-Gallon/17208794

How the plastic and rubber parts in the fuel system will survive, is another question.

[AzCal Retred]

All the I.C. hardware will just go to across the border to Mexico where they do what's reasonable. The idiocy of not just adopting synthetic fuels instead of entirely rebuilding our transport infrastructure based on non-existant battery tech is incredible. If the intent is to limit new carbon into the biosphere, synthetic fuels are a good tool.

[AzCal Retred]

Visor Down - New Goldie doing a burnout!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFeGNH1gkTg

[axman88]

The 11.5 : 1 compression ratio suggests that premium fuel will be required, despite the dual spark ignition.  Has this been discussed?   Another thing I haven't seen is specs on the fuel system.  One assumes it must be EFI, but have any details been revealed?  They are claiming 70.6 mpg on the website, https://www.bsacompany.co.uk/bsa-gold-star/   which is very close to what is claimed for the RE Int.   The fact that BSA doesn't use KPL, but goes straight to MPG shows how committed they are to UK focused marketing.

To me, the idea of Indian companies employing British workers, to produce products that will extract money from their own country, to the benefit of India, is quite interesting.  I wonder how Indian nationalists view recent economic developments?

Too bad about that huge radiator.  All that liquid holds a lot of heat, one can really feel it at the stoplights in the summertime.   On the other hand, hydronic heating is the most comfortable kind of heating you can have, .... in your house.

[Richard230]

BTW, my recollection is that my BMW (break my wallet) Funduro was a dry sump engine and had its oil stored in the frame, like my 1971 Triumph Bonneville did.

[AzCal Retred]

@ #119: Spoken like a guy that doesn't buy the "Arthritis-Size Aspirin" tubs for his knees! 

It's a Dry Heat...

[AzCal Retred]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_F_series_single-cylinder
The BMW F650St Strada was introduced to Europe in 1993, a variant F650 (dubbed the 'Funduro') in 1994 and then to the United States in 1997.[3] The BMW F650 models were jointly designed by BMW and Aprilia, who also launched their own very similar model called the Aprilia Pegaso 650 (a 654cc single cylinder, 5 valve motorcycle).[4] The BMW version was assembled in Italy by Aprilia and these were powered by the Austrian 652cc single-cylinder, 4 valve Rotax engine.[3] It was the first BMW motorcycle with chain drive since the 1960s.[3][4] The two variant models of the F650 motorcycle had some subtle differences which determined their utility bias: the F650 'Funduro' was the more dual/multi purpose with more off-road capability due to the longer wheel base, more ground clearance and taller seat height, a higher front fairing and a larger 19inch front wheel, the F650St Strada had slightly smaller dimensions and an 18 inch front wheel. Both models used two 33 mm Mikuni carburetors.[4]

Engine   652 cc Rotax single
Top speed   F650 - 185Kmh (max rpm 8000)
F650ST Strada - 165Kmh (max rpm 7000)
Power   48hp (35kW) @ 6500rpm
Torque   39.2 lb⋅ft (53.1 N⋅m)
Transmission   5-speed, chain drive
Weight   173Kg (unladen) (dry)
191Kg (wet)

Design and technology
The F650GS had several advanced technology features for its time, with computer-controlled fuel injection,[when?] catalytic converter, a Nikasil-lined cylinder, optional ABS and an airbox designed to exploit the airflow pattern of the bike when in motion. Combined with the bike's high compression ratio and twin spark plugs (from 2004 onwards), excellent fuel economy and low emissions existed alongside high power output. The original F650 single-engine was manufactured for BMW by Austrian company Rotax while the bike was assembled by Aprilia. When the F650GS was launched,[when?] the full process was brought back in-house.

In 2000, the German motorcycle magazine Motorrad reported about a defeat device delivered within the BMW F 650 GS. BMW responded in issuing an improved injection as of 2001 and calling back the models from the previous year.[6][7]

Amongst the changes from the original F650, the engine was upgraded to a 43 mm throttle body. The fuel is stored in an under seat fuel tank,[8] and the false tank (where a conventional fuel tank would be) housed the remote oil reservoir (for the dry sump), airbox and battery. This contributed to a lower centre of gravity for improved handling.[2] The bodywork was redesigned by head BMW designer David Robb.[2]

Due to the high numbers sold, the F650GS developed a large aftermarket accessories range and a sizeable owner community. BMW also developed a large range of factory original hard luggage for the bike.

[richard211]

Been going through the different F650 models and it looks like the Flywheel / Rotor for the 1995 F650 is a carburettor model. So it should be straight forward converting the EFI to carburettor.

 Ebay link of the Flywheel / Rotor

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265094050140

[Richard230]

The BMW Funduro engine was also used by MV for a short time installed in one of their sport bike chassis around 1999 or 2000. I remember seeing one for sale in the shed next to the Alice's Restaurant gas station. I seem to recall that the tachometer was redlined at 9K rpm, which caught my attention. Somewhere in my many disorganized photo albums I have a couple of pictures of the bike.

[AzCal Retred]

48ish BHP and maybe 180 Kg dry were the numbers to shoot for, I'm amazed Mahindra couldn't replicate that in 2022. Seems to me a 2nd hand $2k Funduro/Strada would give you at least a $5k modding budget. No reason to not have a DIY Goldstar, you are mostly a tank, muffler & fenders away.

We live in a carbon fiber, 3D printer future, I'm not seeing why the "Faux-star" is slower & heavier than previous efforts with this engine. At India labor rates, even hand laid up CF parts painted to look like steel would "add lightness". Lighter = more HP, better brakes for the same components.

[gizzo]

We live in a carbon fiber, 3D printer future, I'm not seeing why the "Faux-star" is slower & heavier than previous efforts with this engine. At India labor rates, even hand laid up CF parts painted to look like steel would "add lightness". Lighter = more HP, better brakes for the same components.

This ^. You have it arse about face. India are more interested in cheapness than performance. They'd do the exact opposite and make a cheap heavy steel component and paint it to look like expensive carbon fibre.

[AzCal Retred]

So is there a near $4000 "contact name magic" markup going on here? If we Statesiders can get the Interceptor for about $6K, the faux Goldstar should be less, that's one of the advantages of singles, less parts, cheaper to build. The 250-350 street motorcycles that used to be twins are mostly singles now. Selling a new "nice bike" at extra-premium rates competes with the used market, awash with "nice bikes" for 1/3 to 1/5th the price. The enthusiasm for the original Goldstar was about it's superior performance for its time. It would be reasonable to expect a similar "spirited" performance level today. Using clever engineering and low-cost labor would be a reasonable way to achieve this, if that was your intent. SInce it's not happening, maybe we can expect a $4500 Fauxstar in 18 months or so to move unsold inventory.

[gizzo]

I'd have a SR400 any day.

[AzCal Retred]

Hmmm...27 HP, 174 Kg/384 lb. wet, 5-speed, what's not to like? Available on Craigslist from $3500, Cycle Trader From $4500 & up. They are holding value, obviously people like them. 

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_sr400%2014.htm

[GlennF]

SR400 ...

[GlennF]

Another review - comparing the new Goldstar with a 1956 BSA Gold Star DBD34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AQWhJG14Qg

[Keef Sparrow]

Another review - comparing the new Goldstar with a 1956 BSA Gold Star DBD34

My late father was once offered that model of Gold Star for £50. He turned it down. I think it would be worth rather more now....

[GlennF]

My late father was once offered that model of Gold Star for £50. He turned it down. I think it would be worth rather more now....

Indeed, but not the insane prices people pay for a Vincent Black Shadow ...

https://motorcycles-for-sale.biz/sale.php?id=51481

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21135/lot/284/

https://motorcycles-for-sale.biz/sale.php?id=49708

[AzCal Retred]

Recieved this ad in my e-mail:

https://www.bsacompany.co.uk/bsa-gold-star/

Gold Star: A design icon of its era, redefined to reclaim its glory in the current times, the new BSA Gold Star’s design is a befitting evolution of our most successful motorcycle. From only £6,800...($8,500 USD?)

Gold Star Legacy Edition: A design icon of its era, redefined to reclaim its glory in the current times, the new BSA Gold Star’s design is a befitting evolution of our most successful motorcycle. From only £7,000...($8,750 USD?)

SPECIFICATION
ENGINE
Engine Type – Liquid-cooled, single- cylinder, DOHC, 4 valves, twin spark plugs
Engine Capacity – 652cc
Compression Ratio – 11.5:1
Max Torque – 55Nm@4000rpm
Max Power – 45hp@6500rpm
Transmission – 5-speed
Cooling System – Liquid

SUSPENSION
Front – 41mm telescopic forks
Rear – Twin shock absorbers with 5-step adjustable preload

WEIGHT
Dry/Wet – 198kg/213kg

WHEELS & TYRES
Front Tyre – 100/90-18 Pirelli
Phantom Sportscomp
Front Wheel – 36 wire spoke alloy rims 18 x 2.5”
Rear Tyre – 150/70-R17 Pirelli
Phantom Sportscomp
Rear Wheel – 36 wire spoke alloy rims 17 x 4.25”

BRAKES
Front – Single 320mm floating disc, Brembo twin-piston floating calliper, ABS
Back – Single 255mm disc, Brembo single-piston floating calliper, ABS

FUEL TANK
Total Capacity – 12 litres
Fuel Consumption – 70.6 mpg (WMTC)

DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase – 1,425mm
Seat Height – 780mm
Rake – 26.5 degrees


FYI:
https://www.royalenfield.com/us/en/motorcycles/int650/
Interceptor MSRP prices $5999 to $6699.
Weight 455 to 466 pounds (207 Kg. to 212 Kg.) ; 47 HP

[AzCal Retred]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UsnMyC0R1Y

2022 BSA Gold Star - classic biker gives us her first ride impression
In this video we catch up Maria Hull and she gives us her first ride impression on the 2022 BSA Gold Star 650.

Location for this video is Millbrook Proving Ground in Bedfordshire, UK.

// ABOUT THE CLASSIC MOTORCYCLE CHANNEL
The Classic Motorcycle Channel is for people who love classic, vintage and antique motorcycles. We are passionate about classic motorcycles and produce high quality motorcycle profile videos, restoration videos, restorer profile videos and also anything that takes our interest.

[gizzo]

Jeezus it's a heavy thing, innit?

[AzCal Retred]

I thought so too, but dry weight specs put the Gold Star at 198 Kg. vs. the Interceptor at 207 Kg. dry. It's the +$1,500 differential I can't get past. As it's a single, it seems like the CG would have to be higher than for a very similar twin. Anyway - if the prices were closer, I'm sure BSA would pick up some incipient RE riders. It does look to be a very nice bike, but so is the 6-speed, 47 HP  Interceptor...

[axman88]

I thought so too, but dry weight specs put the Gold Star at 198 Kg. vs. the Interceptor at 207 Kg. dry. It's the +$1,500 differential I can't get past.

We are seeing UK prices of ~£6000 - £6500 for the Interceptor, against announced pricing of £6500 - £7000 for the BSAs.

That's only roughly a £500 difference, $615 US dollars at todays exchange rates.

It's not fair to compare currency converted UK pricing to USA pricing.  Our British brothers have to pay more for everything, ... except maybe health care?

Classic Legends has yet to announce any concrete plans to enter any market except Great Britain.  If they only plan on making 3000 machines a year, (which should be plenty to meet demand in that market), they should darn right be pricing them high.

I think it would be pretty difficult to achieve much market penetration in the USA going to market with as few dealers as Lukas Distribution has right now.   https://www.lukasdistribution.co.uk/store-locator   Seven doesn't seem like enough even for a place the size of England.  I understand that RENA now has 90 dealers in the US and Canada.  I wonder how, and IF Classic Legends will "deal"  with distribution in North America?  Mahindra does have almost 800 tractor dealers in the USA.  That idea worked for Sooraj, back in the day, and before RE decided to muscle in on the diesel bike action.  https://www.bikes4sale.in/details/vintage-bike/sooraj-diesel/

[StefArmstg]

I love classic bikes, retro bikes, and big singles.  But a water-cooled Goldie is Wrong.  I think the age of the classic road single may have officially ended.  The future belongs to the Dual Sports and "bug" bikes (KTM and Husky).

RE managed to build a nice mid-sized, air-cooled twin.  But as has been pointed out, many 650 owners find it inadequate in it's stock form.  Governmental regulations and modern expectations are relegating elemental motorcycling to the tiddler class.  That's a shame.

[AzCal Retred]

@ #138: What makes Brit-sold RE 650's almost $2K USD more than over here? VAT?  That's around 30% more, yowza!

I agree, if the differential is a mere $600 or so USD, then the BSA Gold Star has a chance at eroding some RE sales.

[Richard230]

My thought is that the new BSA is priced at what the manufacturer and/or importer feels that the market will bear.

[AzCal Retred]

What's the driver for the US/UK 30% price diff on new bikes?

[GlennF]

What's the driver for the US/UK 30% price diff on new bikes?

VAT is 20% but you cannot just deduct 20% it does not work that way. The ex-VAT price is going to be the VAT Price over 1.2 and if you do the math you end up with the pre-VAT difference being just 8% which is easily accounted for by higher freight or the distribution chain having higher costs or maybe just blame Brexit.

[axman88]

What's the driver for the US/UK 30% price diff on new bikes?

I don't know.  I started looking for reasons but haven't found much yet.

For a true comparison, we should be comparing out the door pricing.  US dealers charge substantial fees and taxes, an extra $1000 or more on a $6k bike isn't uncommon.   Perhaps some of that is rolled into list price in the UK?

Another factor is probably transportation.  Anything coming from Asia by sea, has a closer, easier journey over the Pacific to CA, vs around Cape Hope to European ports.  Insurance rates are probably lower for the pacific journey.

I also think that the UK market is more regulated than the US, there are more riders using their machines as transportation, vs recreation, and the 2nd hand market is less populous.  All these factors support higher pricing, as does the existence of fewer dealers.

[Arschloch]

The price hike should be about 500% in both countries if you ask me, there is no reason for anyone with an IQ of 70 (like me) to slave for imbeciles. 

[AzCal Retred]

An actual Franklin quote - well done sir!
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-06-02-0107#:~:text=Those%20who%20would%20give%20up,deserve%20neither%20Liberty%20nor%20Safety.

https://mn.gov/mnddc/parallels2/pdf/70s/74/74-NNS-PCR_Chapter_3.pdf
With the introduction of the intelligence test, developed by Binet in France, and brought to this country by Goddard, it became an accepted practice to relate these three terms to specific I.Q. scores *—idiot for those scoring below 25, imbecile 25 to 50, and moron 50-70/75. 

I'm not following the "500% price hike" stratagem; Mahindra BSA Gold Star sales affect you how, exactly...? 

[Arschloch]

Actually the Mahindra Gold Star sales leave me totally unimpressed. I strongly suspect should I see some of them regularly on the road anywhere near that would mean some nukes must have been dropped on a few of our neighboring countries. 

[GlennF]

An actual Franklin quote - well done sir!
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-06-02-0107#:~:text=Those%20who%20would%20give%20up,deserve%20neither%20Liberty%20nor%20Safety.

https://mn.gov/mnddc/parallels2/pdf/70s/74/74-NNS-PCR_Chapter_3.pdf
With the introduction of the intelligence test, developed by Binet in France, and brought to this country by Goddard, it became an accepted practice to relate these three terms to specific I.Q. scores *—idiot for those scoring below 25, imbecile 25 to 50, and moron 50-70/75. 

I'm not following the "500% price hike" stratagem; Mahindra BSA Gold Star sales affect you how, exactly...? 

IQ tests pretty much measure ones ability to do IQ tests.

There is some correlation with academic success, though other personality traits like the ability to stay focussed on long term goals feature strongly.

There is minimal correlation with real world success.  The biggest factor in real success appears to be related to what the popular press have called EQ.  Your ability to relate with other people and understand them is more important than high intelligence. In terms of management the biggest factor that assists people getting to upper management is a degree of ruthlessness that can approach sociopathetic.

[AzCal Retred]

"In terms of management the biggest factor that assists people getting to upper management is a degree of ruthlessness that can approach sociopathic."

A hearty +1 there, GlennF. Sounds like we've worked for similar organizations. "Rules are for losers."

[Keef Sparrow]

I saw one 'in the flesh' for the first time yesterday at a dealer's in Watford (UK) and I thought it looked better than expected. The exhaust system didn't look as bad as in some pictures although it was still spoilt by having a heatshield. The radiator is still obtrusive though and Triumph make a much better job of trying to conceal what must be a larger one if it's capable of cooling a 1200cc twin. It's at Lloyd Coopers in Watford if anyone living locally want's to pop over and take a look - apparently a lot of interest has been shown by potential customers. I didn't ask the price.

[McElsen]

Such a shame they made it a liquid cooled engine. That massive radiator at the front completely spoils it for me.

[AzCal Retred]

A nice UCE or Pre-Unit might make an affordable air-cooled, pushrod-operated-2 valve substitute; H's has ALL the necessary hardware.

I continue to be amazed that with serviceable examples of the Funduro available for $1,500 - $3,500 they'd even try to market these Faux Stars for +$7,000. A set of street tires on your Funduro and you are 90% of the way to replicating the Mahindra BSA performance. Or a KLR650, or a Honda/Suzuki 650 enduro or a nice used V-Strom or SRX600 or Honda GB500...? I'm not seeing the appeal of a Faux Star, if you want modern...just get modern. Why not a 650 Interceptor for $1,500 less? Get a 450 kit for your Meteor in a few months? Make a 612 R.E. G.T.?

[Keef Sparrow]

Such a shame they made it a liquid cooled engine. That massive radiator at the front completely spoils it for me.

I agree about the radiator, but I think water cooling is the only way the can meet the latest noise and emissions regulations.

[GlennF]

I agree about the radiator, but I think water cooling is the only way the can meet the latest noise and emissions regulations.

Not the only, they are lots of new air cooled bikes around. Probably the easiest way though.

[Arschloch]

Not the only, they are lots of new air cooled bikes around. Probably the easiest way though.

Maybe if you design a bike in India you may have to make it the "only" way otherwise they would never agree on anything? 

[axman88]

I agree about the radiator, but I think water cooling is the only way the can meet the latest noise and emissions regulations.

How are these guys doing it?    https://www.harley-davidson.com/gb/en/motorcycles/road-king.html

From what I understand HD has been able to get many of their big twins to meet Euro 5 and BS 6 with Air/Oil cooling.  There sure isn't a "big radiator" in the pictures of that Road King with its 114 cubic inch ( 1868 cc) v-twin.   Just under 3 times the size of the BSA engine.

There are some Big Twins that have water cooled heads, but HD manages to pretty effectively conceal the radiators.  To me this seems about as silly as Honda costuming many of its Shadow series water cooled engines with cheap, cosmetic, screwed-on fins.

Then there are the HD Revolution family engines, which embrace their liquid cooled nature. 

[AzCal Retred]

Are these guys ever going to make a 350 poundish, 25ish HP "UJM" for normal folks? Was the Aermacchi Ala Alazzurra the last real small bike they ever "made"? A couple years back there was a nice small 300cc V-twin floating around - what happened? Everything in their lineup is $13K and way, way up. Is HD just a status symbol?

[GlennF]

Are these guys ever going to make a 350 poundish, 25ish HP "UJM" for normal folks? Was the Aermacchi Ala Alazzurra the last real small bike they ever "made"? A couple years back there was a nice small 300cc V-twin floating around - what happened? Everything in their lineup is $13K and way, way up. Is HD just a status symbol?

They have managed to both paint themselves in a corner and shoot themselves in the foot at the same time. 

They capitalised on the Harley "mystique" back in the '80s and '90s and gathered a massive dedicated following that kept the company afloat for 30 years buying big loud air cooled retro twins, but those same Harley Devotees got really angry any time the company tried to move away from the classic retro big twins and torpedoed any efforts to bring out a more modern big twin, or a smaller capacity bike, or anything off-road, neverlone going electric.

Problem is that big group of "Harley Devotees"  is shrinking every year as they move onto Mobility Scooters or have a cardiac arrest trying to get that 900 lb Road Glide off the kick stand and not that many younger riders want a big loud, badly handling air cooled twin.

[Arschloch]

They seem to increasing the sales in Germany I think, I haven't seen as many 20 years ago. Might be due to the aged middle-class, the other factor might be the last minute effect in order to buy what they always wanted but couldn't get into due to most likely lack of cash or herd mentality at younger age. The typical stereotype in the 90ies would be that you have to have a beer belly so that you if lucky can see your willie in the mirror, and a beard to your knees at least.

[axman88]

Are these guys ever going to make a 350 poundish, 25ish HP "UJM" for normal folks? Was the Aermacchi Ala Alazzurra the last real small bike they ever "made"? A couple years back there was a nice small 300cc V-twin floating around - what happened?

If by "normal" you mean folks in China, then it is still on!

At least, media report were still talking about the 338R, as of last March but it was now going to be a 353cc.  I don't recall this ever being discussed as being a V-Twin?     https://www.motorbeam.com/harley-davidson-338r-engine-to-displace-353cc-roadster-to-debut-soon/

But since then,

this happened:   https://canadamotoguide.com/2022/07/04/chinese-manufacturer-clones-the-sportster-engine-or-so-it-appears/

and this was published:  https://www.motorbeam.com/harley-davidson-500-spotted-in-china-could-arrive-before-338r/

It's hard to know what in all this is "real" and what is smoke and mirrors.  Some questions that spring to mind are:
    Why would somebody spend presumably quite a bit of extra money to have HD stickers on their Benelli Leoncino 500?
    How will Shineray get their EVO clone to meet emissions requirements when HD supposedly couldn't?
    Why does it take so long to develop a machine that is basically a restyled and rebadged version of an existing bike?

Maybe HD's heart isn't it it?  If I was CEO, I'd be very leery of moving forward with Chinese partners at this point in time.

But I do respect HD's engineering.  Apparently HD can get an air/oil cooled 1800cc motorcycle to meet emissions requirements that certain other manufacturers were unable to get their 500 cc machine to meet.

[AzCal Retred]

Hyosung had a 300cc machine ready to go.
https://www.rideapart.com/news/547793/hyosung-unveiled-new-300cc-bobber/
Hyosung Unveiled A New V-Twin 300cc Bobber; Tentatively named the GV300SA for now; Nov 14, 2021

And there was this Qingjiang SRV300 ; Mar 17, 2021:
https://shifting-gears.com/300cc-harley-davidson-twin-cylinder-motorcycle-design-leaks-will-rival-royal-enfield/

It's certainly NOT for lack of hardware. It looks like GlennF may be on point here:
" Problem is that big group of "Harley Devotees"  is shrinking every year as they move onto Mobility Scooters or have a cardiac arrest trying to get that 900 lb Road Glide off the kick stand and not that many younger riders want a big loud, badly handling air cooled twin. " (Or a big, PRICEY, awkward twin)
H.D. better build a market before the undertaker gets all its clientele. I've seen more than one factory HD trike on sale on CraigsList for under $2K, about 10% of new. If all your 2nd hand hardware is showing up at estate sales...

[Richard230]

As I recall H-D marketed an Indian-manufactured, U.S. assembled, 500 and 750 water-cooled V-twins and tried selling them in the U.S. a few years ago without much success. I saw a 750 once, but that was about it. I would be surprised if the H-D board tries that again. H-D are not ones to make the same mistake again once a product flops. But they might try selling a 300 in China and Asia just to see if it floats instead of sinks.   

[GlennF]

    How will Shineray get their EVO clone to meet emissions requirements when HD supposedly couldn't?
   

True story ...

A good friend's daughter worked in purchasing for a large company that made curtains and upholstery. They would get standard patterns from a company in Shenzen and enlarge or shrink them and modify colors. She would then fly to Shenzen in China once a month and negotiate the following months orders.

Part of the Australian import regulations is the fabric for each order needed to be tested for chemicals and contaminants.  This was done. Every month the company went to a filing cabinet retrieved their test sample and sent it off for testing.   Only thing is, they sent the SAME bit of fabric every month that they had been testing for years.

[axman88]

As I recall H-D marketed an Indian-manufactured, U.S. assembled, 500 and 750 water-cooled V-twins and tried selling them in the U.S. a few years ago without much success. I saw a 750 once, but that was about it. I would be surprised if the H-D board tries that again. H-D are not ones to make the same mistake again once a product flops. But they might try selling a 300 in China and Asia just to see if it floats instead of sinks.   

The Street 750 and 500's were not small motorcycles, 494 lbs dry, both the same bike except for cylinder bore, and fitted with a single OHC variant of the Revolution engine.   Bikes for the NA market were assembled in Kansas City, and bikes for Asia and Europe in Bawal, India, but I believe all the engines came out of India.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/2020/street-750.html

The machines were reviewed favorably by media, I read reviews that said they were the best handling HDs of all time, but they never captured the "youth / new customer" market HD claimed they were intended for.  The 750 sold poorly in the US, and the 500 sold worse.  The Streets were, however, HD's best selling machine in India and Asia, where they were also the lowest priced.  Since they were produced in India, by an HD of India affiliate, they were not burdened with the high import vehicle tariff.

Even though the HD Streets had already been approved for BS 6 compliance, when the factory at Bawal was closed in 9/20, they were discontinued worldwide.  Just in time for the upturn in demand that resulting from pandemic desire for personal transportation, HD had killed off their base model.  I noticed that, ironically, the 3 or 4 year old, HD Street 500s that had been sitting on Cycle Trader, for sale from various dealers who had them as brand new, but leftover stock, finally found buyers.

But this Qianjiang 350 cc partnership is not going to be the same mistake.  HD never said that this machine would be brought to NA or Euro markets.  There was no talk of "youth / new customers".  It was intended only for Asia, where HD never achieved much penetration.  Riders there wouldn't have generations of machines and biker culture to base expectations on.

Perhaps HD's mythos is as easy to install in a new product as it is to affix a label.   They certainly work some marketing magic with their apparel and brand licensing products.   

[Arschloch]

https://youtu.be/1gxlszRDIlM

BSA scrambler. Very pretty...

[gizzo]

Still a Mahindra....

[AzCal Retred]

...but they certainly do know how to build tough hardware...

https://www.mahindrausa.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA-JacBhC0ARIsAIxybyObOiTevEqX0GsDcfRNctvJLvn97ermoM57LZyWTbO3q3LVI5IbnkQaAv2UEALw_wcB
HORSEPOWER; 120 HP
WEIGHT; 9535 lbs
3- POINT HITCH LIFT CAPACITY; 7480 - 9460 lbs
TRANSMISSION; Full synchromesh with Forward/Reverse Power Shuttle and Constant Mesh Range

[GlennF]

yeah, but Aston Martin are built by John Deer but that does not make them suitable as a farm vehicle.

[Arschloch]

Still a Mahindra....

At least the mother "ship" is far far away, preferable to Volvo or anything similar that comes from Greats homeland at any time.

[GlennF]

At least the mother "ship" is far far away, preferable to Volvo or anything similar that comes from Greats homeland at any time.

...   promoted to "Great" now ?

[axman88]

This article from a few months ago, "sorta" answers the question I was asking in this thread a few pages ago about USA distribution of this Mahindra / Classic Legends BSA.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/bsa-plans-to-bring-gold-star-650-to-the-united-states-next-year

"Some time in 2023" is the statement, which I assume this should be attributed to Ashish Singh Joshi, Director of BSA, who also apparently said “For us, the new BSA Gold Star is not just a motorcycle, but an emotion, and we pursued the journey of bringing BSA back with the utmost passion.”

Feeling like punching somebody, who says stuff like this, in the mouth is also an emotion, but not one I want to go on record as having.

Anyway, the article suggests the possibility of Mahindra / Classic Legends / BSA selling these machines through existing Mahindra dealers that  already deal in powersports equipment.  I wonder how many of Mahindra's 800 or so US-based distributors also deal powersports?  I wonder why Mahindra didn't already offer these folks the Classic Legends Jawa or Yezdi?

It will be interesting to find out how well the BSAs sold in the UK during the past riding season.  As far as I can tell, the machine hasn't yet been offered to any markets outside the UK, and by my calculation, it doesn't take more than a few thousand bikes yearly to be the top selling single model in the UK.        https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/uk-motorcycle-sales-strong-start-sees-2022-sales-surge-clear-2021 

[Hoiho]

yeah, but Aston Martin are built by John Deer but that does not make them suitable as a farm vehicle.

Are they? David Brown, famous for his tractors, used to own AM (hence the DB models), but I didn't know JD owned them..

[NVDucati]

Lots of owner entities over the years.
This article pretty much lays it out ...
https://www.tuko.co.ke/319709-who-owns-aston-martin.html

[GlennF]

Are they? David Brown, famous for his tractors, used to own AM (hence the DB models), but I didn't know JD owned them..

Yeah my bad.

I thought John Deere was the one that bought out David Brown back in the day but when I looked it up it was actually Case Tractors not John Deere.

[AzCal Retred]

That's a shame - Having "Runs like a Deere" might've made a great ad campaign for a sports car...

[Arschloch]

Feeling like punching somebody, who says stuff like this, in the mouth is also an emotion, but not one I want to go on record as having.

Well the original Swedish idea was "Just do it, and don't talk about it". Well the place is not anymore what it used to be....

[GlennF]

Well the original Swedish idea was "Just do it, and don't talk about it". Well the place is not anymore what it used to be....

The Aussie version, is "She'll be right, we will get to it eventually."

[axman88]

A little about distribution of the new BSA Gold Star 650s.

It appears to me that Classic Legends / BSA motorcycles, has ONLY been selling their Gold Star 650 in the UK, through Lukas distribution.
     https://www.lukasdistribution.co.uk/store-locator
 I seem to recall, when I looked at this map shortly after the distribution announcement was made,
https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/bsa-announces-new-uk-and-ireland-distributor-ahead-gold-star-launch
 there were only about a half dozen Lukas dealerships at that time, now I'm seeing 22, rapid expansion, and not bad coverage for the UK, in my opinion.

Just under a month ago, Classic Legends announced a plan to distribute the machine to Europe through Peugeot Motocycles, which is already part of the Mahindra Group.   Peugot has an impressive number of dealers, but none in the USA, nor in India.   https://peugeot-motocycles.com/en/sites/

Plans to bring the model to the USA remain loose, ... perhaps "sometime in 2023", but there's been nothing definite on how or who will sell the BSAs.   https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/bsa-plans-to-bring-gold-star-650-to-the-united-states-next-year   Mahindra does have quite a wide US distribution for their tractors, and some of these also deal in powersports.   https://www.mahindrausa.com/map-hours-directions-tractors-utvs-farming-equipment--dealership--locate-a-dealer.

In India, just speculation about when and how the bike might be brought to market.
https://news.maxabout.com/bikes/bsa/650cc-bsa-gold-star-to-launch-in-india-or-not-heres-what-we-know/   I have seen nothing concrete announced.

Australia has Peugot scooter dealers, so perhaps our members down under will have the opportunity to get a leg over the new BSAs sooner than those of us here in the US.