Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => 535 Continental GT => Topic started by: Adrian II on August 15, 2022, 07:34:10 pm
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Finally!
Hitchcocks' listing is for the 500 EFI version but presumably the CGT 535 version to fit the wider crankcase mouth will be up for the same money. I have asked for clarification.
The engine kit comes in at 2750 GBP not including any import duties or domestic VAT, that's all the engine stuff, though it is a twin port exhaust, so a set of pipes and mufflers will be needed too. A pair of pipes come in at 219 GBP and the mufflers at 292 GBP the pair, again that's net of any import duties or domestic VAT. 3261 GBP the lot or $3941 plus shipping and taxes.
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/35385
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Keen to see the dyno results.
A little on the expensive side. But definitely unique.
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Yes, apparently those few privileged souls who have ridden a bike thus fitted have been quite impressed, but as with all of Hitchcocks' more expensive kit, I fear it may be for something of a limited market. The thought of buying one to play with will probably be dismissed fairly quickly. But just to give you an idea, this was spotted by a French friend at the Founders' day Rally in the UK in 2019 which celebrated the (post-war) Bullet's 70th anniversary. It might have had the 612 crank fitted too.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/28cmv35H/GB-2019-CGT-535-4-soupapes.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Photo: Marco
http://www.royalenfieldlesite.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=24097
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Maybe it is a bit too late as buying a BSA 650 and installing clipons would be a lot more simple and less expensive to build a classic single cylinder cafe racer with some performance...
Nice kit though !
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A nice kit. I wonder how much just the head + valves etc alone would be. As some of us have done the upgrades with bore, piston and cams. Different push rods maybe?
What I'd LOVE to see is the head adapted on to a IRON barrel engine.
Would possibly be a dream build for me. Alloy 535 Barrel, Big head, twin pipes. Drool.
Adrian I'm pretty sure you've shown me it's been done by Mr Price.
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There are/were twin port I.B. heads out there already. They show up on ebay from time to time. You are pretty talented, I'm guessing you could fab one from an existing single port head with some grinder/mill time and a tig welder. The ebay ones I've seen look pretty home made. You could probably improve the exhaust sealing arrangement whilst you are about it.
H's could likely steer you to someone with an original twin port head, send them an e-mail.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313&_nkw=royal+enfield+twin+port&_sacat=0
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You're missing the point though, this is NOT about 2-valve twin exhaust port heads. They were quite common pre-war. Royal Enfield did have some proper 4-valve head models before WW2, so there's perhaps a bit of a nod to the heritage as well as a new toy for performance-obsessed EFI500 and CGT535 owners.
Just so we know what we're talking about...
(https://i.postimg.cc/85XwVhPj/Screenshot-2021-02-02-Hitchcocks-Motorcycles-hitchcocksmotorcycles-Instagram-photos-and-videos-1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/502pGPJh/Screenshot-2021-02-02-Hitchcocks-Motorcycles-hitchcocksmotorcycles-Instagram-photos-and-videos-5.png)
Photos: HMC
Henry Price's 535 UCE top-end/iron barrel crankcases hybrid uses a stock 2-valve, single exhaust port head with a slightly modified Electra-X crankshaft and a CGT535 barrel and piston.
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It probably will sell well, because I would bet it doesn't. :D
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You buy this kit, pay another 1-2k until it runs, and then nobody cares. Great investment.
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You buy this kit, pay another 1-2k until it runs, and then nobody cares. Great investment.
The enthusiasm for Koenigseggs is definitely greater. ;D
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You buy this kit, pay another 1-2k until it runs, and then nobody cares. Great investment.
Something else for you to troll? Those who HAVE tried rate it pretty highly, and no-one even mentioned carburettors on this thread yet, though I suppose we can, now. ::)
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I am shure you are the right guy for this kind of "investment".
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Something else for you to troll? Those who HAVE tried rate it pretty highly, and no-one even mentioned carburettors on this thread yet, though I suppose we can, now. ::)
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Well we could discuss now the advent of fuel injection.
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Those who can afford it and have a use for it will buy it. The rest of us will (mostly) think "that's nice" and move along. As I posted above, it's a limited market. That said, Hitchcocks' managed to sell all their reproduction Big Head kits for Redditch and Indian 500 iron barrel Bullets despite the price, Baxter Cycle even bought up the reject castings to fix them. I would assume a company like Hitchcocks' would have researched their likely market carefully before taking these beyond the back of envelope sketch/drawing board/CAD file, or whatever voodoo modern manufacturing currently uses. My suspicion is that they'll sell most of them once the all the money from the sale of spare kidneys has been banked.
If we're talking about investment, I think there are enough level-headed people in the RE world who realise that any major upgrades made to their bikes won't necessarily be recovered when they sell their bikes on, Same as restoring a vintage bike, the money spent on a really good restoration isn't often recovered in a subsequent sale. However, people do gain a lot of personal satisfaction seeing an old heap of a bike restored into something desirable again, or taking an under-developed production bike and turning it into something a bit special. If you don't get that, others here certainly do, and no, I haven't ordered one of these kits, for sure/shure.
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My observation those day is, it doesn't matter what the investment is. More important who does it and where. if it's the biggest crap doesn't matter, if I did invest in Sweden into anything it would ring, 13, 13, 13....all the time. From that perspective buying into this doesn't appear to me like the worst idea. The head itself will probably retain value better than the bike itself anyway and can be sold of at a brighter day separately. For such a low volume production run it would not appear overly expensive.
And than if someone enjoys it putting it on his bike even better.
Firewood might be a better investment those days, and that will go to zero. :D
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" You buy this kit, pay another 1-2k until it runs, and then nobody cares. Great investment. "
If you are expecting to get paid for your work and achieve acclaim, you are likely in the wrong hobby. It's all for "personal enrichment". If you enjoy the process, that's all there is. Derottone with his highly polished 535, Your fleet of retuned EFI hardware, when our "treasures" go to the used bike shop or ebay after we shuffle off, it's all just parts, a project or a cheap ride to the next guy.
I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”
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Very expensive personal enrichment. While at the same time claiming, that you need to convert to carb because you cannot afford 300$ for an EFI tuner. But that is how you want to live. So be it.
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Very expensive personal enrichment. Hey - it's cheaper than going to the bar! ;D
While at the same time claiming, that you need to convert to carb because you cannot afford 300$ for an EFI tuner.
Nope - I don't want to become an EFI tech. I enjoy my 1935 tech Bullets. If I wanted to actually go fast I'd get a Hayabusa or ZX14, pull basic maintenance and save up for $500 worth of tires every 2,000 miles or so. Besides, my whole fleet of anachronisms cost less than your cheapest ride. It's just entertainment, it doesn't affect day to day living expenses.
But that is how you want to live. So be it. True words, friend. It's a big world and nobody is paying my bills but me. Live like you want to live.
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Is that viczena fool still banging on about wasting money? ::) wow.
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You buy this kit, pay another 1-2k until it runs, and then nobody cares. Great investment.
Couldn't be any truer of a statement.
Especially from a Harley owner.
Its THE brand you want to get if you want others to approve of you and for social acceptance. You're paying for a brand and the status.
But in all. Who the F-K cares. There's owners, commuters, enthusiasts, restorers and hobbiests. All in this forum.
Let them be and let this thread continue discussing this product thats been in development for years. Its interesting to US!
Not who should spend money where and what.
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Very expensive personal enrichment. Hey - it's cheaper than going to the bar! ;D
While at the same time claiming, that you need to convert to carb because you cannot afford 300$ for an EFI tuner.
Nope - I don't want to become an EFI tech. I enjoy my 1935 tech Bullets. If I wanted to actually go fast I'd get a Hayabusa or ZX14, pull basic maintenance and save up for $500 worth of tires every 2,000 miles or so. Besides, my whole fleet of anachronisms cost less than your cheapest ride. It's just entertainment, it doesn't affect day to day living expenses.
But that is how you want to live. So be it. True words, friend. It's a big world and nobody is paying my bills but me. Live like you want to live.
Well it's cheaper than getting a job in Sweden for sure, since your work is considered your hobby you will be expected to pay your company for making your hobby available to you. Although they have a tendency to forget to write it into the contract. ;D
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Yeh Gizzo I'm really not sure what his motivation might be.
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Yeh Gizzo I'm really not sure what his motivation might be.
I strongly suspect it is pi**ing on our chips.
B.W.
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But that is how you want to live. So be it. True words, friend. It's a big world and nobody is paying my bills but me. Live like you want to live.
You would love Sweden than, maybe they would declare you authistic, so that they can take care of your bills and access to your account of course. So much love and care taking. ;D
Ritch or poor, every Krona counts, apparently only recently they've figured that it can inflate too and doesn't have a fixed value to everything.
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Will I get my own student nurses?
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Will I get my own student nurses?
If I was the King of Sweden... ;D...I would gladly ship them over to you on the fastest boat I could find. ;)
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Id like to see how it compares with the ACE heads.
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Id like to see how it compares with the ACE heads.
It is a very distinctive looking piece with nice build quality like most Hitchcock products have always been.
My approach was aimed more at retaining most of the original appearance as possible. So, different concepts.
I don't know any of the specifics of the 4 valve head, so it is hard to speculate on the performance of it.
If it retains the normal rev limit and the factory throttle body size, and the same 90mm stroke length, I would suspect similar performance results from them both.
I am curious about what valve angle he used, though.
That red bike pictured above with the 4 valve head looks real nice!
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Hi Tom! Nice to see you again. 8)
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I am curious about what valve angle he used, though.
Hitchcocks' have released various pictures of the kit on Instagram, does this one help?
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(https://i.postimg.cc/502pGPJh/Screenshot-2021-02-02-Hitchcocks-Motorcycles-hitchcocksmotorcycles-Instagram-photos-and-videos-5.png)
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Hi Tom! Nice to see you again. 8)
Thank you Simon.
Glad to see some of the old guard still here.
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Hitchcocks' have released various pictures of the kit on Instagram, does this one help?
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(https://i.postimg.cc/502pGPJh/Screenshot-2021-02-02-Hitchcocks-Motorcycles-hitchcocksmotorcycles-Instagram-photos-and-videos-5.png)
Only roughly.
Maybe it's the stock 26.5° angle?
How about combustion chamber volume?
Anyone know that?
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For combustion chamber volume guessers everywhere!
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(https://i.postimg.cc/85XwVhPj/Screenshot-2021-02-02-Hitchcocks-Motorcycles-hitchcocksmotorcycles-Instagram-photos-and-videos-1.png)
Photo: HMC
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The typical future customer is going to buy anything without ever asking specs.
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EVERYone knows that the Bluetooth connectivity, wi-fi, GPS and USB connector count is paramount! All that mechanical stuff is just the carrier for it, like grits is the carrier for salt, pepper & butter. :o 8)
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One thing that puzzles me is the odd shape of the inlet tract - it's a bit like an Electra-X port turned 90° No doubt the (supplied) throttle body adapter will be round at the other end. Roughly equivalent to a 36mm bore carb/TB cross-sectional area, I gather.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/kG2WPy39/thumbnail_image003.jpg)
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One thing that puzzles me is the odd shape of the inlet tract - it's a bit like an Electra-X port turned 90° No doubt the (supplied) throttle body adapter will be round at the other end. Roughly equivalent to a 36mm bore carb/TB cross-sectional area, I gather.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/kG2WPy39/thumbnail_image003.jpg)
Well, an oval port entry is not unusual for a 4-valve head, but typically there would be a manifold with injector housing, which they do mention but I see no picture of it.
From the photo of the bike above, it appears to have the stock 34mm injector housing and throttle body, but we can't see inside. I will wait to see if the important data becomes available.
Edit:
Oh, I do see a photo of the manifold in that photo you posted about the valve angle. It shows the inlet tract off, and the manifold adapter housing is there.
So, externally it is looking okay. Can't comment much on the insides really without data.
But it looks nice.
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For combustion chamber volume guessers everywhere!
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(https://i.postimg.cc/85XwVhPj/Screenshot-2021-02-02-Hitchcocks-Motorcycles-hitchcocksmotorcycles-Instagram-photos-and-videos-1.png)
Photo: HMC
The cylinder head bolts are practically in the combustion chamber.
The push rod tunnels are narrow, like the stock set up. This looks like one push rod is running two valves.
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The cylinder head bolts are practically in the combustion chamber.
The push rod tunnels are narrow, like the stock set up. This looks like one push rod is running two valves.
Yes, it is a single rocker shaft with 2 rocker arms on it for inlet, and the same on the exhaust side. Common practice.
They are running a "reverse spigot" arrangement like the Iron Barrel for compression sealing, except the spigot is on the head and the recess is in the top of the bore liner. They call it gasketless fit. No head gasket. So the bolt holes are theoretically enough out of the way to avoid leakage.
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Just for reference I would like to know the square area of the oval inlet port.
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Just for reference I would like to know the square area of the oval inlet port.
There's a whole lot that I would like to know, but I have a feeling won't be forthcoming.
:-\
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The sand cast looks nice though, factory like.
https://youtu.be/dEYEn_fpv-4
May not be a good idea to upset these days those who spend fortune's on their heads. ::)
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@ #39: You can probably scale it from the stud diameter, that's a pretty good photo if the port.
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it is an awesome upgrade albeit a bit pricey. Adding horsepuppies is usually an expensive proposition. I wonder what the "large performance increase" actually is?
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Just for reference I would like to know the square area of the oval inlet port.
I was informed that the port measures 45mm x 26mm. So if my brain is still working, the port area is comprised of 2 x 13mm radius semicircles, effectively a single 13mm radius circle, plus a rectangular area which is 26mm x (45-26) = 25 x 19mm. My calculations came to a cross-sectional area of 1030sq mm, roughly halfway between that of a 36mm carburettor and a 37mm (Keihin FCR) carburettor, though most CGT owners are probably thinking in terms of FI throttle bodies, I would suspect.
Any help?
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From the first pic it looks like they've made a new injector body to go with this. I assume the throttle body is stock.
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I was informed that the port measures 45mm x 26mm. So if my brain is still working, the port area is comprised of 2 x 13mm radius semicircles, effectively a single 13mm radius circle, plus a rectangular area which is 26mm x (45-26) = 25 x 19mm. My calculations came to a cross-sectional area of 1030sq mm, roughly halfway between that of a 36mm carburettor and a 37mm (Keihin FCR) carburettor, though most CGT owners are probably thinking in terms of FI throttle bodies, I would suspect.
Any help?
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Yes, helpful.
Thanks!
In other words it needs a bigger than stock throttle body, or velocity takes a big dump at the transition.
It's a tough call to make as a designer.
Do I port it big for maximum power and rpm, or do I make it work best with the stock throttle body on the street?
Interesting choice.
In the interests of full disclosure, I ported our Ace billet 2-valve heads to work best with the stock TB on the street, and left the bigger porting to the purchaser if he wants it bigger. I figured most owners would use the stock ancillaries.
Derottone ported his up to 36mm at my last hearing.
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You would probably want to go with the 36-37 mm carb with this arrangement, which may direct you towards to the 6.5 - 7.5 k revs if that valve train is capable of it.
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Using a carb will need a custom manifold for a smooth transition, of course. Could be an interesting morning's work with a block of alloy.
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Using a carb will need a custom manifold for a smooth transition, of course. Could be an interesting morning's work with a block of alloy.
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Should be a good rehab work for the covid patients. ;)
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Staying within the same topic but throwing out a bit of a different question...
All I've done to my 2014 GT is the stage 1 performance kit, the Power Commander 5, free flow header pipe and Muffler along with the K&N Filter. The RPM range that my bike spins nearly 100% of its time is between 3:00 and 4,000 RPMs. And when I'm on the highway, I'm very comfortable keeping it right around 62 to 64 mph which keeps it a bit under 4,000 RPMs.
I would love to boost the performance of my bike but not necessarily looking for maximum top-end speed. Where I would benefit from more power and torque would be on the freeway at 62 mph riding into a block 15 to 20 mph headwind where you have the throttle cracked 80% and the bike is struggling to keep speed or at the same time, trying to pass a semi truck without the bike struggling.
What would be the most beneficial modification to boost the mid-range torque and Power?
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612 kit?
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Supercharger
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612 kit?
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I've heard more than once on here that the 612 Big Bore Kit causes the bike to run out of breath at higher rpm. Good for low-end torque in hilly terrain or if using a sidecar.
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612 kit?
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I've heard more than once on here that the 612 Big Bore Kit causes the bike to run out of breath at higher rpm. Good for low-end torque in hilly terrain or if using a sidecar.
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Staying within the same topic but throwing out a bit of a different question...
All I've done to my 2014 GT is the stage 1 performance kit, the Power Commander 5, free flow header pipe and Muffler along with the K&N Filter. The RPM range that my bike spins nearly 100% of its time is between 3:00 and 4,000 RPMs. And when I'm on the highway, I'm very comfortable keeping it right around 62 to 64 mph which keeps it a bit under 4,000 RPMs.
I would love to boost the performance of my bike but not necessarily looking for maximum top-end speed. Where I would benefit from more power and torque would be on the freeway at 62 mph riding into a block 15 to 20 mph headwind where you have the throttle cracked 80% and the bike is struggling to keep speed or at the same time, trying to pass a semi truck without the bike struggling.
What would be the most beneficial modification to boost the mid-range torque and Power?
Increased compression with squish mod, as I mentioned on the other thread.
It will help at any/all rpms.
As for the 612, I have never been a fan. Just my opinion.
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I've heard more than once on here that the 612 Big Bore Kit causes the bike to run out of breath at higher rpm. Good for low-end torque in hilly terrain or if using a sidecar.
You've said yourself that you're not operating in the higher rev range so what's the problem?
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As for the 612, I have never been a fan. Just my opinion.
I believe it was you Ace that said a couple of years ago that you felt that the 612 kit caused the bike to “run out of breath at higher RPM’s”, but did allow for more torque at lower RPM’s “for side car use or in hilly terrain”.
Whats your thoughts on the reason for it “running out of breath” at higher RPM’s.
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I believe it was you Ace that said a couple of years ago that you felt that the 612 kit caused the bike to “run out of breath at higher RPM’s”, but did allow for more torque at lower RPM’s “for side car use or in hilly terrain”.
Whats your thoughts on the reason for it “running out of breath” at higher RPM’s.
Because the head isn't ported to handle the extra displacement, and the piston speeds from the longer stroke cause it to choke the intake earlier.
It's not insurmountable, but it needs somebody who knows what he's doing.
In addition, the bottom end parts are not the strongest, and the longer stroke will limit the reliability in higher rpm ranges.