[Captain Bob]

I pulled the filler cap off the gearbox of my 56 Twin 500.  Looking inside appears to have a thick red grease saturating the visible parts.  I was expecting more of an oil than a grease.  In the documentation I received with the bike was a note from the Previous owner.   He says he used Veedoll 00 grease in the gearbox.  I haven't pulled the oil level pug yet because it seems to be buggered up.  If I get some time, I will pull the drain plug tomorrow.   It didn't really look like the grease inside is pourable.  Anyone have any thoughts on using this type of grease?  Same as EP 00 I am told but I am not familiar with either of those types of lube.  What are you using in your gear boxes?
Again, any and all thoughts are appreciated.

As an aside, Happy New year to you all!

[AzCal Retred]

These machines came with gear oil. There is an oil level check plug, thus implying that a specified level of fluid was required inside the cases. Snidal (hallowed be his name...) in his manual just adds motor oil until it appears at the level plug, then buttons it up and lets it churn for a couple hundred miles of riding, then drains out the resulting mess and replaces it with gear oil. A couple cycles of this and you are back to where you need to be - gear oil lubricated bushes & gears. All three of my Bullets had "greeze" inside the cases; all three got gear oil (140W85) and the only "leaker" had a split clutch pushrod bearing cap that had been "fixed" with silicon sealant. Amazingly a new aluminium cap cured this.

Grease is an affectation, a nod to the excessive fastidiousness of "collectors" (and older US & Euro Honda/Yamaha/Kawasaki/Suzuki riders reliving their youth...) that aren't keenly interested in finding a dime to 50 cent size splotch of oil daily below their showpieces. These machines aren't Hondas, there will be weepage of internal fluids. They were intended for daily-driver transportation and maybe weekend joy rides with the squeeze du jour. In 1935 a bit of oil leakage wasn't a big deal. Keeps down the dust, right? So do the Snidal oil purge and don't look back. I use 140W85 simply because on hot days on my bikes the shifting is still "agriculturally OK" and not getting "notchy" at the end of a ride, YMMV. These machines aren't the Space Shuttle, but they are pleasantly close to their infernal combustion roots. Toss an old towel or t-shirt under it and enjoy your time machine.

[Captain Bob]

These machines came with gear oil. There is an oil level check plug, thus implying that a specified level of fluid was required inside the cases. Snidal (hallowed be his name...) in his manual just adds motor oil until it appears at the level plug, then buttons it up and lets it churn for a couple hundred miles of riding, then drains out the resulting mess and replaces it with gear oil. A couple cycles of this and you are back to where you need to be - gear oil lubricated bushes & gears. All three of my Bullets had "greeze" inside the cases; all three got gear oil (140W85) and the only "leaker" had a split clutch pushrod bearing cap that had been "fixed" with silicon sealant. Amazingly a new aluminium cap cured this.

Grease is an affectation, a nod to the excessive fastidiousness of "collectors" (and older US & Euro Honda/Yamaha/Kawasaki/Suzuki riders reliving their youth...) that aren't keenly interested in finding a dime to 50 cent size splotch of oil daily below their showpieces. These machines aren't Hondas, there will be weepage of internal fluids. They were intended for daily-driver transportation and maybe weekend joy rides with the squeeze du jour. In 1935 a bit of oil leakage wasn't a big deal. Keeps down the dust, right? So do the Snidal oil purge and don't look back. I use 140W85 simply because on hot days on my bikes the shifting is still "agriculturally OK" and not getting "notchy" at the end of a ride, YMMV. These machines aren't the Space Shuttle, but they are pleasantly close to their infernal combustion roots. Toss an old towel or t-shirt under it and enjoy your time machine.

Excellent!  So what weight motor oil would you recommend to use in the "degreasing" process?

[AzCal Retred]

Use whatever you have handy - 15W50, 30W, 40W, 50W, 10W-40, etc. You'll be making an amalgam as it blends with the grease. The first go-round will fluidize most the existing grease after 200 - 300 miles or so & get maybe 80% out, then it'll be mostly gear oil after that anyway. It's not mission critical. The point is that you won't hurt anything. Even if it was just 100% plain motor oil in the gearbox, that'd be no different that what every wet-clutch Japanese machine has essentially been doing for 80 years, even the 200 BHP machines. There's no practical reason to disassemble anything, you are just "flushing out" a compatible petrochemical lubricant. I settled on 85W140 because it can be hot here in SoCal and my transmission seems to be "happier" with the thicker hot weight of the multigrade. I am happier with a lubricant that actually flows into the tiny openings around the bushing & gear sliding surfaces.

That said, lots of folks have done many, many miles on pure grease or amalgam. These machines aren't fussy. I like the simplicity of using an oil level check plug as a "go/no go" gauge. I could give a ratsass if there are a few drips here or there - that just adds "character", right? 

[Adrian II]

Might this help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo91QdNxmRg

A.

[Captain Bob]

Use whatever you have handy - 15W50, 30W, 40W, 50W, 10W-40, etc. You'll be making an amalgam as it blends with the grease. The first go-round will fluidize most the existing grease after 200 - 300 miles or so & get maybe 80% out, then it'll be mostly gear oil after that anyway. It's not mission critical. The point is that you won't hurt anything. Even if it was just 100% plain motor oil in the gearbox, that'd be no different that what every wet-clutch Japanese machine has essentially been doing for 80 years, even the 200 BHP machines. There's no practical reason to disassemble anything, you are just "flushing out" a compatible petrochemical lubricant. I settled on 85W140 because it can be hot here in SoCal and my transmission seems to be "happier" with the thicker hot weight of the multigrade. I am happier with a lubricant that actually flows into the tiny openings around the bushing & gear sliding surfaces.

That said, lots of folks have done many, many miles on pure grease or amalgam. These machines aren't fussy. I like the simplicity of using an oil level check plug as a "go/no go" gauge. I could give a ratsass if there are a few drips here or there - that just adds "character", right? 

My bike definitely has some character.  lol  It does leave its mark as it is running.  Could be overflow from an over filled oil tank which has been recently rectified.  Not sure if that is the source of the leak or not.  Is there any benefit to leaving the grease in the gear box (other than no leakage)?  Only reason I am asking is, I took the bike for a very short ride (1/4 mile).  It was hard to put in first and when shifting to second, it went right past second and popped into third.  I can get it in second using my hand to shift.  This could be an unadjusted gearbox.  It was then after looking more closely at the gearbox I noticed the grease versus more traditional oil. and that got me wondering.  I will probably convert to oil. I have fresh oil I removed from the tank I can use to top off the gearbox.  I need to spend some more time with this beast.

[Captain Bob]

Might this help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo91QdNxmRg

A.

This was very helpful!

Thank you.

[AzCal Retred]

Shifting these is a learning experience. These gearboxes won't be hurried. They aren't Japanese snic-snic-snic gearboxes. This was hard for me to learn.

The Drill: (from 1930)
Clutch in, hold lever.
Toe into gear, hold foot lever.
Feed in the clutch.
After the clutch is released and you know you are in the new gear position, release foot lever.

The Snidal manual is good on gearbox adjustments. A well adjusted & mechanically fit Albion is pretty good (I'm told). but mostly they are fairly agricultural and like deliberate inputs. The incredible ratchet mechanism under the shifter cover flops the internal bellcrank to the next gear position (mostly). The indexing plunger pressure and condition plays into it as well. With the Bullet you get to relive the full 1930's motorcycling experience.

I found that blowby was the primary cause of a lot of oil losses out the crankcase vent and also the "Nivea Syndrome" where a whitish foam (emulsified water & oil) builds up blows out the vent. After I fitted a new forged piston & steel rings all of that stopped. The piston stayed straight in the bore, the steel rings sealed and kept the combustion gasses on top of the piston where they belonged.

[grumbern]

Most gearbox issues derive from a non- or bad functioning clutch. It acutally makes a big difference in shifting and accuracy, if the clutch works well or not. So, this would be the first to address.
Andreas

[Captain Bob]

Shifting these is a learning experience. These gearboxes won't be hurried. They aren't Japanese snic-snic-snic gearboxes. This was hard for me to learn.

The Drill: (from 1930)
Clutch in, hold lever.
Toe into gear, hold foot lever.
Feed in the clutch.
After the clutch is released and you know you are in the new gear position, release foot lever.

The Snidal manual is good on gearbox adjustments. A well adjusted & mechanically fit Albion is pretty good (I'm told). but mostly they are fairly agricultural and like deliberate inputs. The incredible ratchet mechanism under the shifter cover flops the internal bellcrank to the next gear position (mostly). The indexing plunger pressure and condition plays into it as well. With the Bullet you get to relive the full 1930's motorcycling experience.

I found that blowby was the primary cause of a lot of oil losses out the crankcase vent and also the "Nivea Syndrome" where a whitish foam (emulsified water & oil) builds up blows out the vent. After I fitted a new forged piston & steel rings all of that stopped. The piston stayed straight in the bore, the steel rings sealed and kept the combustion gasses on top of the piston where they belonged.

Pretty sure this is a fairly recent rebuilt motor.  I am not sure this is coming from the vent.  I did have the oil tank overfilled, however.  I need to examine this further.  If the rings have not yet seated I guess it could be blow by.  I have the Snidal manual for the bullet and will be checking out the adjustment procedure for the shift mechanism.  Paul Henshaw has a decent video of it as well.  I fully understand the 1930's experience.  Being a 76 year old dude, I have spent much time on a tractor growing up in Michigan as a kid.  I fully understand agricultural transmissions.  lol

[Captain Bob]

Most gearbox issues derive from a non- or bad functioning clutch. It acutally makes a big difference in shifting and accuracy, if the clutch works well or not. So, this would be the first to address.
Andreas

I did think of that but, I am going past second gear.  The clutch seemed too operate pretty smoothly.  Hopefully, it is just an adjustment.  Could be too much travel in the shift lever.

[AzCal Retred]

The India Bullet clutch is routinely pretty wobbly, I dunno about the Redditch 500 twin from the wayback. I totally agree with Grumbern on the clutch's effect on shifting. Drag at the wrong time isn't helpful. H's offer some "super clutches" but I can't say how much crossover there is. On the Bullet you just rotate the clutch hub on the splines until you find the least wobbly combo. It's still a fun ride, warts & all. All part of the allure, yes?    Careful clutch assembly and tuning the ratchet shifter bits with Snidals manual has returned functional results for me.

[Captain Bob]

The India Bullet clutch is routinely pretty wobbly, I dunno about the Redditch 500 twin from the wayback. I totally agree with Grumbern on the clutch's effect on shifting. Drag at the wrong time isn't helpful. H's offer some "super clutches" but I can't say how much crossover there is. On the Bullet you just rotate the clutch hub on the splines until you find the least wobbly combo. It's still a fun ride, warts & all. All part of the allure, yes?    Careful clutch assembly and tuning the ratchet shifter bits with Snidals manual has returned functional results for me.

I do have Snidal's manual and will be using it to tune the ratchet shifter.  I am guessing that is the issue.  I do agree... dabbling with these old beasts is something you just love to hate.   I felt bad after I sold my 55 Woodsman (Bullet).  I really missed playing with it.   I am quite happy I was able to secure this 56 Tomahawk (500 Twin). A very suitable replacement.   This bike will not be leaving the barn. 

[classicrider]

My 2001 Bullet came with grease in the GB from the factory,and dealer supplied Veedol 00 grease,it only stays thick when cold,when warmed up turns to liquid.The recommendation was to just add  "Moly slip" super slippery oil when topping up.RE made some modifications around the early 2000's to the output shaft and seal,which had allowed oil to travel along the spline on the countershaft,it was called a "flaw" i recall.Not sure if it was a caryover from the UK models.   
Don't be surprised if afterdraining the grease that it spews oil,which will require a tear down and replacement of seals (probably only felt on your model).
If it were me I'd just add the oil,and get the bike thoroughly hot and see how the gearchange goes then.

[Captain Bob]

My 2001 Bullet came with grease in the GB from the factory,and dealer supplied Veedol 00 grease,it only stays thick when cold,when warmed up turns to liquid.The recommendation was to just add  "Moly slip" super slippery oil when topping up.RE made some modifications around the early 2000's to the output shaft and seal,which had allowed oil to travel along the spline on the countershaft,it was called a "flaw" i recall.Not sure if it was a caryover from the UK models.   
Don't be surprised if afterdraining the grease that it spews oil,which will require a tear down and replacement of seals (probably only felt on your model).
If it were me I'd just add the oil,and get the bike thoroughly hot and see how the gearchange goes then.

That is exactly my plan.  Unfortunately, we received 15 inches of snow recently so I won't be riding anything (but maybe a snowmobile) for a while.  I will try topping off the gearbox with oil and take it for a decent spin to see what happens.  Worse case, I do some adjusting...  In the measntime... break out the snow shoves.