[AzCal Retred]

Adrian II & PaulW are the Electra cognoscenti here. Personally I'd get any available complete Electra that looked & sounded intact and go from there, they are pretty scarce. Not sure what you're getting at regarding the chain, unless you are talking about the auto adjust, which is a UCE item, not Pre-Unit.

[nonfiction]

Not an Iron Barrel, and not close to anyone, but this guy has had this very low miles lean burn bike on his car selling pages for over a year, not really advertising it. It'd surprise me if he wouldn't let it go for less, leaving you some dough to get it shipped to your home. https://islandmotorcars.wixsite.com/imc-site/buy?page=3

[Karl Fenn]

Ok l see what you mean, l will have a look round see if l can find a low millage example, what year should l consider.

[Adrian II]

Speaking as a fan of the Electra-X engine, I would sort-of echo AzCal's recommendation, with a few words of caution;

1. Crinkly;

2. Exegesis;

3. Fallopian.

OK, for some more coherent(?) words, the improved design of the AVL engine used on the Electra-X won me over when I bought my first RE, the steel con-rod and the needle roller big-end were the key points, and ON PAPER they were a great improvement. Sadly the quality of the Indian steel crankpins could be very patchy, and owners would end up playing big-end roulette. Some failed at as little as 7,000 miles, others are still going strong after 40,000. Mine managed 17,000. What was meant to be a major improvement turned out to be, for some Electra-Xs, a major weakness.

Then we have the electric start sprag clutch failure issues, well documented and usually due to back-fire damage, and the UK importers rushed out a spark delay kit to go with the original TCI ignition black box to try and counteract this before coming out with a revised green TCI box.

Also there was a redesign of the valve train which actually was MORE fragile than the original tried and tested Bullet design, the cam followers off the old iron barrel engine were replaced with tappets with thinner stems and adjusters which were prone to jumping off the ends of the tappets. The tops could be easily damaged, and the tappet feet could snap off and cause mayhem in the timing chest.

I would also say the loss of the older Bullet's decompressor valve in the head was a retrograde step.

Just in case all this seems a bit odd coming from a professed fan of the model, I would want anyone taking one of these bikes on to go in with their eyes open and be prepared for a bit of work, in advance if necessary, because a well-sorted Electra-X or AVL Classic is a very rewarding motorcycle indeed. Buy one that has already gone bang and build it up they way it should have been built, and it's then tough enough to take some tuning, should you want to.

The crankshafts are rebuild-able, you can buy con-rods bored out to take a hardened outer track (the originals just have the caged needle roller assembly running directly in the big-end-eye, Japanese-style) as well as being supplied with a UK-made crankpin. There are several outfits I would trust in the UK to make a decent job of the rebuild, I don't know where you're located, Karl.

The sprag clutch can be avoided by simply dumping the whole electric start, or else you can modify the cylinder head to take the old Bullet's decompressor valve and give the sprag clutch an easier time on starting (and stopping) the engine.

You can adapt the old Bullet's cam followers/tappets/tappet adjusters to fit the AVL engine, another thing less to worry about.

The Electra-X was in production from 2004 to 2007, most of the last new examples were sold in the UK by 2008. The early ones seem to have been most prone to the big-end failures. The Electra-X was also imported into the USA but seems to have been replaced after a couple of years by the AVL Classic, which was imported until 2009. Chain adjustment front and rear is the same as the earlier models.

If all that seems like too much hard work, the final version of the iron barrel Bullets, the Sixty-5 (and also the 5 speed E/S Deluxe in the USA) is quite highly though of.

A.

[axman88]

The Electra-X was in production from 2004 to 2007, most of the last new examples were sold in the UK by 2008. The early ones seem to have been most prone to the big-end failures. The Electra-X was also imported into the USA but seems to have been replaced after a couple of years by the AVL Classic, which was imported until 2009. Chain adjustment front and rear is the same as the earlier models.

If all that seems like too much hard work, the final version of the iron barrel Bullets, the Sixty-5 (and also the 5 speed E/S Deluxe in the USA) is quite highly though of.

A.

Thanks for the info on the Electra-X.  Very interesting.

I'm confused on what the difference is between AVL and Electra machines.  I see that Electra is included in same forum group as the AVL, but think I read some place that Electra was named for inclusion of electronic ignition?

edit:  Here's a link I found for the 2004-2008 models with some pictures:  https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/royal-enfield/royal-enfield-electra-x-2004-to-2008-buyers-guide

Also, was there a Continental GT model from the pre-UCE period?  If so, would you know if that was imported into the US? 

[Paul W]

Adrian II & PaulW are the Electra cognoscenti here. Personally I'd get any available complete Electra that looked & sounded intact and go from there, they are pretty scarce. Not sure what you're getting at regarding the chain, unless you are talking about the auto adjust, which is a UCE item, not Pre-Unit.

I bow to Adrian’s far wider knowledge than mine. Although I own an Electra it’s not the usual model, it’s sort of a halfway house model.

Mine is a 350 Indian home market Bullet Electra, built in 2004. It’s an iron barrel engine, as per the original design and therefore has the floating bush bottom end bearing rather than the needle type and the old style rockers. It never had a starter motor and it came with the old style 4 speed gearbox, although I found a 5 speed box and converted it to right side change, to suit the traditional layout the bike came with.

The only reason this model got the name Electra was because it came with electronic ignition. It’s without a distributor or the associated drive gears - the timing case only has the two cam pinions; the upright bit is still there, but totally empty inside. The places where the timing pinion shafts usually go aren’t even machined out. The ignition system is TCI and is all contained in the primary transmission cover, apart from the control module under the seat.

Overall I presume this was RE’s first go at modernising the old traditional engine. The AVL was next with its different top and bottom ends and my knowledge of those is only what I’ve read.

[Karl Fenn]

Well thank you Adrian this has enlightened me greatly on the subject and given me great insight into the engine, however in saying that what is the most reliable engine of them all, l have heard much of the cranks giving up the ghost on those bikes, is the later unc any better for crank durability and longitivity?  Thanks everyone this has been a great learning experience.

[AzCal Retred]

The crank will always be an unknown quantity until you personally have installed a known good rebuilt unit. If you want to sleep at night, order the H's needle bearing crank with steel rod and install it. The alloy Pre-unit con rods can be another weak link, but BW opines they are generally OK if not abused. Certainly the pre-unit pistons are a liability, but easily remedied. Just get an auto club membership for free towing, carry a cell phone and don't worry about it. You are not the abusive type, it'll likely be fine.

Ultimately you have no control over factory parts, specifically crankshafts. They may last 5,000 miles or 50,000 miles. BW took one example apart at 80,000 and it was still within spec., so riding carefully and good maintenance can pay off IF the OEM parts were actually round & properly hardened to begin with.

Any of the pushrod motors will be a crapshoot, so if you are not interested in the likelihood of some required meccano-surgery, maybe a different machine is a more prudent option. The new Meteor might be a good fit, offering state-of-the-art electrical, new hardware reliability and traditional looks. Power is about the same, so you should be able to sport about with few concerns. The Himalayan is likewise a very reasonable choice.

[Bilgemaster]

I tell you what: if I hit all the good ones in the Powerball Lottery, the second thing I'm doing is getting my Iron Barrel on a boat to Wales for our "Bullet Whisperer's" full so-called "ASBO Treatment". What's the first thing I'll do, you ask? Probably a new set of jumper cables. 👍

[Karl Fenn]

Well this is the thing it's many decades since l suffered from bad cranks or hearing about them, back in the 70s they were quite a common problem on the old brits, some could last 30,000 and others just 8,000,  and of course then a very big strip down to rectify the problem, and in many incidents new crank cases as well if the bearings had been spinning in situ, loctite has been around for a long time, total engine rebuilds are not certainly not cheap if done correctly. Of course comming from a BMW background crank failure was unheard of, quality German metal immortalised the crank, some of those cranks in the k bikes would cover 200,000, l think the problems must relate to Indian metals and bearings, they have known about the crank issues for decades but RE have never been able to get to grips with it or find a satisfactory conclusion to the problem, and there is indeed a problem that exists, the cure is a quality redesigned crank assembly which l feel would have resolved this costly issue, but they seem to have plodded on much like triumph in the 70s but ironically the problems were quite fixable with a bit of redesign, in fact the Germans offered Triumph a crank in the late 70s you could actually stand a coin on the tank with the engine running but they turned it down, l remember reading that article many decades ago, of course we all know the fate that followed, but in saying that l loved the triumphs but never took them further than the coast  due to reliability issues, pity really with the right brains and investment they would have been a brilliant bike on a par with the RE 650 today, they did handle really well, but it is apparent the engine design team had no clue, in saying all that l am not put off by a bullet l know how to ride and what an engine can take, l am now torn between a preunit or unc insight would be helpful it is my next must have. But with reflection l am just to old to due 80 hour shifts in the workshop those days are long behind me.

[Adrian II]

By UNC do you mean UCE (unit construction engine)?

RE India kept the same design of big-end and con-rod for the UCE/EFI models as they had been fitting to the Electra-X and AVL Classic, most recent con-rods have had plain little-end/wrist pin eyes with no bronze bush, otherwise no change, so it really is a question of whether your crankpin was a good one or not. Sometimes the outer track in the big-end eye of the conrod can start to break up too, though it's less common. I get the impression that UCE/EFI big-end failures are far less likely but still not unknown.

The Electra name first appeared on a 350 Bullet for the Indian home market fitted with a crank-mounted CDI ignition in 2002, but it was replaced after a year by the TCI version, which is what Paul W has. Later model 350 Electras came with 5 speed gearboxes and electric start, sort of a scaled-down version of the Sixty-5 with electronic ignition. It was a popular model and the name was applied to some 350 UCE Bullets too.

The Electra-X was strictly for export, 500 AVL engine, TCI ignition and electric start from day one. The arrival of the 500 AVL Classic in the US seems to me to have been the result of push-back against the revised styling of the Electra-X by those who wanted the traditional Indian Bullet styling (and drum front brake). Finally in 2007, Indian customers could buy the limited-edition A500 Machismo which looked like a cross between the two.

MEANWHILE, back in Redditch, yes there was a 250 Continental GT in the 1960s, the last gasp of the Crusader range. Not sure about exports to the US or what the market for British 250 singles was like with the Japanese lightweights stealing the show. BSA/Triumph were still exporting their 250s.

A.

[Karl Fenn]

Yes l know about the 250 continental l owned one in about 77 78 a fast 250 but the gear box went bang that was the end of that, it wanted a tip to toe rebuild the cosmetics were getting bad, so l sold it for about 140 quid and bought a bsa 350, but as I remember the mileage was not that high about 12,000, many of the brits could get up to 30,000 the highest mileage brit l owned was 27,000 and still running well when l sold it. So overall the unc was probably the best crank they produced then? Was it the best engine.

[Adrian II]

It was axman88 who was asking about the 250 Continental GT, probably better known to UK riders. Trying to reply to more than one post at a time!

I had a friend back on the Kent coast who rated the Crusader Sports and 250s generally very highly, though I was still into unit single BSAs at the time.

A.

[Karl Fenn]

I reckon l just got unlucky with that one.

[axman88]

A 2007 Bullet 500, Green, with 3600 miles on the odo, NW suburbs of Chicago:

https://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/mcy/d/deerfield-2007-royal-enfield-bulletiron/7308800318.html