[zimmemr]

The MZ team had 6-Days machines that allowed the crank & trans to be serviced/replaced by the rider with engine in the frame. Heavy but functional. I forget which 6-Days it was, I believe Ceckloslavakia, one of our boys was behind the East German home team getting ready to "Hour-out". He came to a long muddy, slick uphill, made 3 valiant tries and fell over in the mud near the top. Babuskas in the crowd dragged him off the course and fed him hot tea & bread. A 6'6" ploughboy looking fellow, probably a Czeck "B" team member, rode the bike back down the hill and then ascended to the top in 1 try. The crowd wiped off the mud from our boy, loaded him back on the bike and applauded him on his way. That's real sportsmanship. Lucky for him I suppose he wasn't a threat to the home team!

Cool story ACR. I attended the 1973 ISDT from start to finish, it was hands down the best motorcycle event I've ever been to and level of Sportsmanship was extremely high. That being said there's always been a rumor that one of the East Germans was out pre riding the course, which was against the rules and heard another bike coming. He ditched his MZ and walked out. That night when they went back to recover the bike it was gone and has never been found. One of the best things about it was that after the sweep riders had been through spectators could ride the course. I had an almost new Rickman SIX day 125, and I and my boss who was on a then new XL250,tried to ride every mile the ISDT riders rode. A lot of the trails were familiar to use, they were right up the road in Mass so we hit most of them. At the end of the week I had to freshen the top end of the Rickman and replace the smashed pipe.

[Karl Fenn]

I mean people used to take the p for riding one, but they weren't that bad they had their technology stolen in a round about way, the reason people did not like them was political.

[Karl Fenn]

I think anyone would go for an off road bike like that, but l bet the cost these days would be prohibitive for sure.

[zimmemr]

I think anyone would go for an off road bike like that, but l bet the cost these days would be prohibitive for sure.

Yeah, I imagine they go for a pretty penny. I haven't seen one for sale over here since I don't know when, maybe 1980?

[Karl Fenn]

I had one those earlier bsa 350s, in the 70s nice bike that was, the cam chain version never did surface not on the uk market anyway, but they had an all alloy engine they rattled a bit, but were very fast and had an excellent frame.

[AzCal Retred]

Zimmemr @ #15: What a memory! I loved following the Six Days in the wayback. The closest I got was a National level Enduro in Arizona. Sunflower had such an attrition rate the sponsors gave finisher pins to anyone making it back to the home check, that's why I got mine, coming in about an hour after dark and -2 hours off the "big boy" pace, my mighty 35 watt headlamp blazing the way. On one savagely rocky downhill there a a National level rider passed about 4 of us bulldogging/dragging our machines down the hill. He was leaping from flat(ish) spot to flat spot like the better trials riders do and picked his way around us. Astounding. Looked like a damn mountain goat!

[Karl Fenn]

Well to be honest l have never seen one unit to night, but there were some good motocross bikes came out of those communist like states, they could hold their own on the courses for sure, l reckon that one is worth a great deal of money. I wish they would make bikes like that jawa available here l love the classic lines of that bike, being a four stroke it won't be as trouble some as a two.

[zimmemr]

Zimmemr @ #15: What a memory! I loved following the Six Days in the wayback. The closest I got was a National level Enduro in Arizona. Sunflower had such an attrition rate the sponsors gave finisher pins to anyone making it back to the home check, that's why I got mine, coming in about an hour after dark and -2 hours off the "big boy" pace, my mighty 35 watt headlamp blazing the way. On one savagely rocky downhill there a a National level rider passed about 4 of us bulldogging/dragging our machines down the hill. He was leaping from flat(ish) spot to flat spot like the better trials riders do and picked his way around us. Astounding. Looked like a damn mountain goat!

I was never a great enduro rider, I just was strong and could bull dog the bike but I just wasn't fastest enough and couldn't do the math. But my boss at the time was a very good enduro guy and very well connected to the East coast enduro scene so when they announced it was going to be held in Mass, we knew we were going. It really was the best event I've ever attended. Maybe the very best part of it was standing inline at a MacDonald's after it was over. The guy in front of me was on the Czech Vase team, and under the watchful eyes of the teams political handler, he traded me a Barum tire pin for an AMA pin. The handler even snapped a photo of us and had us shake hands, no doubt it made for a great propaganda piece. Due to my bosses connections I got to have dinner with the Penton team one night and also the BMW team. It was really an outstanding time, I'd do it again in a second if I could.

[Karl Fenn]

Well with completion it all came down to money, the more you had the greater chance of success, a mate of mine was a track racer, excellent rider but someone always had the better bike, reason l threw in the towel with motocross, more money secures victory, and there are plenty of rich boys involved in racing who have access to big backers, he's getting old now at 66 far to old for racing but we are still good friends after 40 years, he had a massive stroke a few years ago, they took his licence for a while, but l helped him get it back he still builds the occasional track racer and rides he has a yam now l think it is a 300 twin an R bike from when l last saw it.

[zimmemr]

Well with completion it all came down to money, the more you had the greater chance of success, a mate of mine was a track racer, excellent rider but someone always had the better bike, reason l threw in the towel with motocross, more money secures victory, and there are plenty of rich boys involved in racing who have access to big backers, he's getting old now at 66 far to old for racing but we are still good friends after 40 years, he had a massive stroke a few years ago, they took his licence for a while, but l helped him get it back he still builds the occasional track racer and rides he has a yam now l think it is a 300 twin an R bike from when l last saw it.

Like they say Karl: nothing beats cubic inches like square dollars. Also "speed cost money, how fast can you afford to go."

[Karl Fenn]

This very true the lucky streak as they say, what fool said money can't make you happy or a winner, racing is very very big business.

[AzCal Retred]

At the top (expert) levels, once the hardware normalizes parity-wise, then it becomes a skill shoot out. Off-road (cross-country) is a bit more user friendly as far as skill making up for hardware.

At the lower skill levels (novice, amateur) talent is a larger proportion of the win. It's instructive to watch the talented boys run off and hide from folks on better equipment. At Salome years back my mighty 250 CanAm didn't do me any good at all against an overall wearing, work-book clad local boy on a stone stock DT250. I could not shake that guy until we got to the fast jeep roads, then a 30% power advantage carried me ahead. THAT kid on a decent bike would have run mid-pack amateur or lower level expert, the skill, reflexes, & vision were there.

My one shining moment came when I jumped class up to amateur level on my 175 CanAm. The Vulture Mine race was four 30 mile laps for amateur class, three for novice. I stepped up to amateur because the first place novices were lapping within a minute of the Open Experts, so there was just a lot of trophy grabbing going on. I was the last bike off the course that day, riding just ahead of the sweep truck, steering with my back muscles because that's all I had left, but I got my finisher pin. Two weeks later I was called down to the local shop to pick up my trophy. Whaaat?? Turns out that every other 200 class amateur had quit....

[zimmemr]

At the top (expert) levels, once the hardware normalizes parity-wise, then it becomes a skill shoot out. Off-road (cross-country) is a bit more user friendly as far as skill making up for hardware.

At the lower skill levels (novice, amateur) talent is a larger proportion of the win. It's instructive to watch the talented boys run off and hide from folks on better equipment. At Salome years back my mighty 250 CanAm didn't do me any good at all against an overall wearing, work-book clad local boy on a stone stock DT250. I could not shake that guy until we got to the fast jeep roads, then a 30% power advantage carried me ahead. THAT kid on a decent bike would have run mid-pack amateur or lower level expert, the skill, reflexes, & vision were there.

My one shining moment came when I jumped class up to amateur level on my 175 CanAm. The Vulture Mine race was four 30 mile laps for amateur class, three for novice. I stepped up to amateur because the first place novices were lapping within a minute of the Open Experts, so there was just a lot of trophy grabbing going on. I was the last bike off the course that day, riding just ahead of the sweep truck, steering with my back muscles because that's all I had left, but I got my finisher pin. Two weeks later I was called down to the local shop to pick up my trophy. Whaaat?? Turns out that every other 200 class amateur had quit....

Sweet win, I always liked those Can Am's. A good friend of had a 250 in Champion frame and it went like stink. In a drag race it was more than a match for my 370 Astro. I pulled a little better off the turns but that 250 was a jet down the chute, and reliable as hell.

I think what you said about the top tier riders is right on. At the top there's not a dimes worth of difference as far as horsepower goes, they're all on Indians anyway, so what it boils down to is who can figure out the best set up on that track at that time and who adapts quickest to the ever changing circumstances, in short money gets you to the starting line, after that it's all about skill, determination and desire.

[gizzo]

The KTM 390 Duke would be quite a contrast compared with the H'ness or any of the RE singles. I have one and I would describe the bike as being "frantic". The engine wants to be revved out all the time and handling is very quick. Not a bike to use to go on a relaxing ride. 

+1. I don't own one but the couple I've ridden liked being flogged all the time. Like you say, not for relaxing on. very different from plonking about on a proper thumper.

[Karl Fenn]

Well l am not familiar with them but l know some of the smaller bikes are not to be underestimated, l was racing on the track once on my red rocket against a smaller motocross machine, just having a practice, he got in front then took a large jump l followed on, my bike being the heavier did not travel as far, when l hit the second jump it landed to early and cartwheeled l came off as l got my breath back and looked down the track l saw it just cartwheeling in to the distance, when l got to the bike it was like a banana the forks gone and the tank holed, the bars badly bent, l did learn from that experience weight of bikes must always be given consideration even in practice.