Author Topic: Towing A Trailer: Why Don't These Buggies Flip Over Backward?  (Read 2488 times)

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nicholastanguma

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I really like the idea of having a tow vehicle thematically complementary to the motorcycle that it's hauling to a weekend trackday.  A vintage air cooled road race moto needs a vintage air cooled tow car!

Buggies are short wheelbase vehicles; even those built on full length pans are still pretty short. And of course having engines at the rear of the vehicle also means huge weight bias toward the back. Yet clearly these buggies are towing some serious weight behind them.

How are they able to do this without flipping over backward?







« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 12:57:41 pm by nicholastanguma »


Bilgemaster

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Reply #1 on: September 15, 2021, 02:00:10 pm
Proper tongue weight (the weight of the trailer arm at the hitch) is the key to safer towing, with a tongue weight of about 10% to 15% of the total weight of the trailer being pretty standard practice. For rear-engine vehicles like those buggies shown, one might do well to strive for the lighter end of that tongue weight range, since there's little weight over those front wheels. For general information on tongue weight, see: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/information/tongue-weight.htm. For more specific guidance concerning those little teardrop style trailers shown, here is a handy guide: https://www.teardropguide.com/teardrop-trailer-weight/. There's a wide range of teardrop trailer styles, sizes and weights, but most will like a tongue weight of about 100 lbs., give or take, and would be easy to fine tune using only a standard bathroom scale.

My buddy Chris's Harley sidecar outfit, in which he chauffeurs Judge the Wonder Mutt, can also tug his lovely new little teardrop trailer. He also has one of those single-wheel Indian-made Inder brand PV44 luggage trailers like the one shown below, but in black, that I secretly lust after.

« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 02:10:24 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India. Yet it squeaks by here in Virginia.

 


Richard230

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Reply #2 on: September 15, 2021, 02:08:56 pm
Perhaps the drivers know how to drive their buggies with a trailer attached and don't do anything stupid that would flip the trailer. I have seen my share of motorcycles towing trailers and if a motorcycle can do it, I imagine a buggy can too.  ;)

Or....   :o
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Reply #3 on: September 15, 2021, 03:11:55 pm

My buddy Chris's Harley sidecar outfit, in which he chauffeurs Judge the Wonder Mutt, can also tug his lovely new little teardrop trailer. He also has one of those single-wheel Indian-made Inder brand PV44 luggage trailers like the one shown below, but in black, that I secretly lust after.


That trailer is so cute! I love it.
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gizzo

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Reply #4 on: September 15, 2021, 03:18:26 pm


How are they able to do this without flipping over backward?








Because they mostly don't have enough power to pull a sailor off your sister, let alone do a huge wheelie. Have a look for a roadkill video called stubby bob. What they built, even that had to really try to loft the fronts.

A themed car/trailer combo for your amusement. I made the trailer from the back of a wagon same as my tow vehicle. It started as a funny camper (that turned out to be amazingly useful and comfortable, towed well too) then I chopped it down to haul my track 'tard for a bit before I scrapped it. The rear axle is still with me though, doing mad skids in the red sled 😎
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #5 on: September 15, 2021, 04:49:25 pm
Proper engineering? Correct CG & weight distribution? For that matter, why don't short wheel base pickups flip over forward when they stop suddenly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_356
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Reply #6 on: September 15, 2021, 07:15:09 pm
The trailer on the RE, used to be sold by Classic Motor Works .
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Karl Childers

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Reply #7 on: September 15, 2021, 07:29:44 pm
Something y'all can sing along to when yer towin' yer trailers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJHcD0kHTGk


Arschloch

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Reply #8 on: September 15, 2021, 08:05:37 pm
I really like the idea of having a tow vehicle thematically complementary to the motorcycle that it's hauling to a weekend trackday.  A vintage air cooled road race moto needs a vintage air cooled tow car!

Buggies are short wheelbase vehicles; even those built on full length pans are still pretty short. And of course having engines at the rear of the vehicle also means huge weight bias toward the back. Yet clearly these buggies are towing some serious weight behind them.

How are they able to do this without flipping over backward?









Since the towbar is below the wheel axis, the trailer is going to increase the down force on the front wheels of the buggy when accelerating hard.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 08:09:04 pm by derottone »


Bilgemaster

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Reply #9 on: September 15, 2021, 08:48:07 pm
That trailer is so cute! I love it.

An esteemed founder of this Forum, Global Mod and former Official Royal Enfield Importer for North America under Classic Motorworks, Kevin Mahoney, was importing those little Inder trailers from India for a time. David Blasco's Royal Enfields blog had a nice little feature on them about a decade ago: https://www.royalenfields.com/2009/03/surprise-inder-trailer-holds-lot-of_06.html.

The Indian Inder trailers are based on the earlier Czech PAv 40 and PAv 41 ones of the 50s and 60s described here: https://www.royalenfields.com/2010/12/original-pav-trailers-inspired-inder.html. There are lots more of those Czech originals paired with all sorts of wacky vehicles shown here: http://www.singlewheel.com/Scoots/PAVFR.htm

Not to be outdone, back in the day the East German manufacturer IWL produced a similar single-wheel "Campi" trailer, several of which can be seen here, many paired with various models of their motorscooters, including their "Berlin" model, closely resembling the '50s and early '60s West German Zündapp Bella, one of which I own: https://www.flickriver.com/groups/1336048@N22/pool/

For what it's worth the Indian Inder Exports company, which also appears to make sidecars, parts, tools and other gear there in Punjab, has a website at https://www.inderexports.com/. They proudly claim right atop their website header to be "an ISO 9001 2008 Certified Company", whatever that means. I think I've only ever seen that phrase in the cartoon strip 'Dilbert'. Yet the fact that their contact emails are both with the burner account services Yahoo.com and Hotmail.com leads me to caution anyone interested in their wares NOT to use Western Union, or indeed ANY payment method that cannot be easily refunded. Though I rather doubt you'd even get a reply.


« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 09:15:44 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India. Yet it squeaks by here in Virginia.

 


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Reply #10 on: September 15, 2021, 10:33:54 pm
Some mates and I  were building these in the early 70's. We had to severely limit the front brakes with a needle valve to keep from flipping over forward. And Yeah, with the reduction axels they would reach for the sky and do amazing wheelies. BTW, that blue Manx with the side panels is to die for.
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Richard230

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Reply #11 on: September 15, 2021, 10:41:01 pm
I have a model of a BMW Isetta pulling a camping trailer. Photos attached.
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nicholastanguma

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Reply #12 on: September 16, 2021, 04:25:20 am
Since the towbar is below the wheel axis, the trailer is going to increase the down force on the front wheels of the buggy when accelerating hard.  ;)


Very helpful, Mr. Swede, thank you!


nicholastanguma

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Reply #13 on: September 16, 2021, 04:26:23 am
A themed car/trailer combo for your amusement. I made the trailer from the back of a wagon same as my tow vehicle. It started as a funny camper (that turned out to be amazingly useful and comfortable, towed well too) then I chopped it down to haul my track 'tard for a bit before I scrapped it. The rear axle is still with me though, doing mad skids in the red sled 😎

I am indeed amused!


nicholastanguma

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Reply #14 on: September 16, 2021, 04:27:19 am
Proper tongue weight (the weight of the trailer arm at the hitch) is the key to safer towing, with a tongue weight of about 10% to 15% of the total weight of the trailer being pretty standard practice. For rear-engine vehicles like those buggies shown, one might do well to strive for the lighter end of that tongue weight range, since there's little weight over those front wheels. For general information on tongue weight, see: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/information/tongue-weight.htm. For more specific guidance concerning those little teardrop style trailers shown, here is a handy guide: https://www.teardropguide.com/teardrop-trailer-weight/. There's a wide range of teardrop trailer styles, sizes and weights, but most will like a tongue weight of about 100 lbs., give or take, and would be easy to fine tune using only a standard bathroom scale.


Helpful, thank you!