Author Topic: Transmission oil?  (Read 3953 times)

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mtrue77

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on: July 16, 2021, 01:31:15 pm
Now that I've taken a renewed interest in a motorcycle I was considering getting rid of a couple years ago, I find myself asking what are probably dumb questions.  I'd really like to have enough confidence in this "lean burn" AVL Classic or Bullet ES ... never 100% sure on what it was supposed to be called...  to take it out on the road for a couple hundred miles at a time. 

So, is the oil in the gear box any different from the oil in the crankcase, or, as I believe, is it all free-flowing throughout the whole system?  All going through the same filter?  And when I drain oil out through the plug, I'm draining all the oil that needs to be changed? 
Michael T
Pittsburgh, PA
2009 AVL


tooseevee

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Reply #1 on: July 16, 2021, 03:47:23 pm
Now that I've taken a renewed interest in a motorcycle I was considering getting rid of a couple years ago, I find myself asking what are probably dumb questions.  I'd really like to have enough confidence in this "lean burn" AVL Classic or Bullet ES ... never 100% sure on what it was supposed to be called...  to take it out on the road for a couple hundred miles at a time. 

So, is the oil in the gear box any different from the oil in the crankcase, or, as I believe, is it all free-flowing throughout the whole system?  All going through the same filter?  And when I drain oil out through the plug, I'm draining all the oil that needs to be changed?

           Just call it an AVL. That's what it is. The 3 main divisions are Iron Head, AVL and UCE. It's sort of like Knucklehead, Panhead, Shovelhead,  Call it an ES if you want; all that means is Electric Start.

           No, no, no. Your tranny lube does not run through your engine. Your engine oil is totally separate for your transmission lube. As is the primary case. Three different kinds of lubricant are used.

            Put your favorite 40wt or 50wt engine oil in the engine (it doesn't need out-of-sight expensive or synthetic oil). And, no, I won't get into ANY discussion of "what's the best oil"! You could probably run it on mashed bananas if you were in a tight squeeze somewhere in the Amazon  :)

             Only the engine oil gets a filter. There are probably a thousand Youtube videos on changing filters.

            Put 90wt transmission lube in the transmission. Remove the first allen screw up from the bottom on the left side. Put tranny lube in until it leaks out that hole. Put the screw back. Done. To drain it, remove the plug underneath. Let it drain overnight on the centerstand.

             Put a full quart of automatic transmission fluid Type F in your primary (after you've drained what's in there first, of course). Dexron is good if you can find it. If it was me and I didn't know what or how much was in there, I would drain it.   

              There is a lot of info online about these bikes. You should do as much homework as you can. And get a workshop manual. Go to Hitchcock's - study the parts book - familiarize yourself. I think they have online manuals also.

           
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


Bilgemaster

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Reply #2 on: July 16, 2021, 03:56:31 pm
It sounds like you could use a copy of Pete Snidal's superb Bullet Service Manual
 found at: http://www.enfield.20m.com/bullet1.htm. It's not only a service guide for fettling and repair, but offers lots of sensible user tips throughout for best practices on operation. It reads kind of like you're just hanging out with a knowledgeable buddy who really knows the breed.

Just to quickly clarify, the old AVL and similar predecessor "Iron Cylinder Engine" models, also called by some "pre-units", because they were "pre Unit Construction", have separate engine, primary drive (left-hand side, wherein the clutch and alternator dwell) and gear box, each using different lubricants.

The gearbox wants gear oil, preferably a straight GL-4 rated one of about SAE 90 weight. Some of the commoner GL-5 or "GL-2 through GL-5" formulations may contain added sulphur anti-impact additives which can really harm older gearboxes with copper or brass bits. If you see "GL-5" anywhere on the bottle, it's best avoided. The straight GL-4 may not be found in the automotive aisles, but you'll almost always find it in the boating section, since many outboards and outdrives also specify GL-4. Keep an eye out for "Quicksilver", Mercury's house brand. Your Enfield will like that. The gearbox drain plug is fairly obvious. Once drained, one of the lower screws near bottom left--the second or third one up(?) is your fluid level indicator screw on those 5-speed boxes. Having removed the inspection cover and level  screw, you just put gear oil in through the inspection hole until it commences dribbling out the level hole. Button it all back up, and you're done...almost. The old gear oil you drained? Unless it looks like melted licorice or hippo snot, go ahead strain that with a coffee filter or even a paper towel into some clean container. Allow it to settle a week or so, and then gently pour off maybe the top ⅔ or ¾s of it into another clean wide-mouthed container with a lid, preferably a clear one, toss in a little 1 or 2 inch paint brush, and there's your chain lube. A little slop of that along the easy-to-reach bottom portion of your drive chain just forward of the brake drum after each ride, with an old cookie sheet or something to catch any drippage, and it'll both carry off any road grit, and lube your links and sprocket teeth, far extending their service lives. Just doing that bottom section means you'll be giving the whole chain a complete lube every 3 or 4 rides on average, and takes only seconds. I'm at about 18,000 miles on what I believe is the original chain, with about half the "snail adjuster" left to go.

The Primary Chaincase should take either 10W-40 or, better yet, Type F (Ford) Automatic Transmission Fluid. If you have an Electric Start, instead of the 420ml or so determined by the fluid level screw (near the bottom of the outer case, a bit forward), you might do well to put about 800ml or about ¾ of a quart to better bathe the finicky starter sprag stuff. Though frankly, you might consider NOT EVER using that electric leg as they are SO prone to failure. Oh, and that Type F ATF also makes for a perfectly fine fork oil.

The engine will like most any 15W-50, though some owners use other weights, and some diesel formulations are also popular with owners for their increased detergent and zinc (anti-wear) properties. At the risk of opening up yet another dreaded "Oil Thread", a big jug of Mobil1 15W-50 for 20-something bucks will do you just fine. Filters can be had from our Forum hosts. I personally add an ounce or two of something called Lucas TB-Zinc additive (special-ordered for pickup at Wal-Mart) to my oil, but that's entirely optional. Then again, I haven't needed to adjust my tappets in over 10,000 miles. So there's that.

All of these lubricants should be readily available on the shelves of your local Wallyworld. While you're there, you might grab a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. An ounce or two in each tankful of fuel will keep things "happy" and help gently ease out those cobwebs if the bike's sat for a bit, especially with ethanol fuel.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 04:25:04 pm by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India. Yet it squeaks by here in Virginia.

 


mtrue77

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Reply #3 on: July 16, 2021, 04:07:24 pm
You guys don't get thanked enough.  The only thing better would be if your shed were next door to my shed.  Anyways, thank you.
Michael T
Pittsburgh, PA
2009 AVL


Bilgemaster

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Reply #4 on: July 16, 2021, 04:22:07 pm
You guys don't get thanked enough.  The only thing better would be if your shed were next door to my shed.  Anyways, thank you.

My pleasure! And enjoy that AVL! I've often said it's arguably the prettiest of the breed--certainly the rarest post-Redditch.
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India. Yet it squeaks by here in Virginia.

 


mtrue77

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Reply #5 on: July 16, 2021, 05:19:03 pm
Just made a trip to the basement and back.  Here's the service manual that I bought in 2009.  Maybe I should have studied it, but I guess I was confused about that last section being titled Electra and me thinking that wasn't what I had.   Is Snidal a better choice?  A lot of the photos in this one look like b&w copies of copies.
Michael T
Pittsburgh, PA
2009 AVL


tooseevee

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Reply #6 on: July 16, 2021, 06:29:33 pm
Just made a trip to the basement and back.  Here's the service manual that I bought in 2009.  Maybe I should have studied it, but I guess I was confused about that last section being titled Electra and me thinking that wasn't what I had.   Is Snidal a better choice?  A lot of the photos in this one look like b&w copies of copies.

        The AVL engine is an Electra X engine is an AVL engine. Or did I misunderstand what you're saying ?
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #7 on: July 16, 2021, 06:50:44 pm
Get the Snidal manual as well as downloading the on-line manual from Hitchcocks. You can't have too much info. These machines are fairly labour-intensive and don't withstand guesswork too well. Before a repair/service, look over all 3 sources, peruse the Hitchcocks on-line parts book, and if still corn-fused we'll be happy to share our take on it.

Modern oils are far better than anything the Bullet was designed around, and the multi-grades are much easier on the oil pumps. Many gear boxes come grease filled, but can be refilled with gear oil to good effect. My experience has been minimal leakage and better shifting. If you can make the conceptual leap to right side shifting, the RH shift conversion for the 4-speed REALLY improves the shifting. For the excellent 5-speed, left or right is preference, not function.

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A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Bilgemaster

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Reply #8 on: July 16, 2021, 07:37:31 pm
Just made a trip to the basement and back.  Here's the service manual that I bought in 2009.  Maybe I should have studied it, but I guess I was confused about that last section being titled Electra and me thinking that wasn't what I had.   Is Snidal a better choice?  A lot of the photos in this one look like b&w copies of copies.


More or less the same spiral-bound slapdash manual came with my Iron Barrel, and it IS a mess: basically just several different manuals kicked into a muddy pit. Snidal's is SO much better. And you're absolutely right: As I've said here before, some of those photos look like they were printed on stale toast during the Coolidge Administration. Unless you're willing to commit each page to memory, organizationally it's a just a steaming pile of bewilderment. In contrast, if you can get your hands on a spiral bound "Parts Catalog" (one came with my bike too), that'll actually prove useful. Sure, the Hitchcock's website has the exploded parts views too in their online parts catalogs, but it's just handy to have it all printed out, especially when reassembling stuff.
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India. Yet it squeaks by here in Virginia.

 


mtrue77

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Reply #9 on: July 16, 2021, 07:59:50 pm
        The AVL engine is an Electra X engine is an AVL engine. Or did I misunderstand what you're saying ?

No, you didn't misunderstand.  When I bought my motorcycle, it was called either a Bullet, or a Classic (or maybe both).  I wasn't thinking about the engine.  I was just enjoying how the motorcycle looked.  On the website, the Electra was listed as a different motorcycle.  The difference may have been cosmetic.  I think there was more chrome, or maybe there were kneepads on the tank (which I didn't like).  Anyway, I didn't realize that I should be looking at the section of the manual titled Electra. 

Thirteen years later, I'm starting to catch on.

Hitchcock recently responded to my questions by saying that they call it the "lean burn."  I don't know.  Referring to the motorcycle by Its type of engine seemed as unlikely back then as referring to a car by Its engine.  Other than "She's real fine, my 409," I wasn't likely to do it.  Now, I'm OK calling it AVL (or lean burn when I'm writing to Hitchcock).
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 08:11:58 pm by mtrue77 »
Michael T
Pittsburgh, PA
2009 AVL


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Reply #10 on: July 16, 2021, 09:29:46 pm
Electra-X, AVL Classic, A500 Machismo (Indian home market version), all with the same lean-burn engine and 5-speed gearbox. Only the cycle parts will be different to some extent.



Photo: Haywards of Cambridge

A.

Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


mtrue77

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Reply #11 on: July 16, 2021, 11:21:08 pm
That's some nice looking chrome
Michael T
Pittsburgh, PA
2009 AVL


tooseevee

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Reply #12 on: July 17, 2021, 12:11:53 am
Electra-X, AVL Classic, A500 Machismo (Indian home market version), all with the same lean-burn engine and 5-speed gearbox. Only the cycle parts will be different to some extent.
A.

           I guess the one big difference between the bike designated as the Classic and the bike designated as the Electra-X (besides the tin) was that the Classic has a drum front brake and the Electra-X has a DISK front brake. Still same engine.
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


mtrue77

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Reply #13 on: July 17, 2021, 01:10:08 am
Drum brakes, front and back.  If I see a light turn red a quarter-mile ahead of me, I start rolling the throttle forward.
Michael T
Pittsburgh, PA
2009 AVL


Paul W

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Reply #14 on: July 17, 2021, 11:30:32 am
My year 2004, 350 Bullet Electra caused some initial confusion at Hitchcock’s about which parts it used. I soon realised it appears to be an Indian home market version, with an “iron barrel” engine but the TCI ignition system, so it has no distributor or points. The manuals don’t seem to cover this model so I have to use a variety of information sources for it. I’ve also collected some model specific spare parts to future proof it.

I’ve since confused its identity further by fitting a five speed gearbox which I converted to right side change.

It’s a great little bike, I’ve done 15,000 miles on it in the three years I’ve owned it.
Paul W.