Author Topic: 700cc Timing cover brass plug question  (Read 880 times)

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scooterbrain

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Reply #15 on: June 14, 2021, 12:26:05 am
Well actually I said that wrong . The oil was leaking between the worm nut and the crank despite being tightened all tha way up. I finally found the fixing screw in the crank opposite the rod throw. It holds in a pin that Locates the worm nut and finally got it removed so I can move on now with reassembly. Should have it back togather by next weekend.
MikeA
1959 Enfield Indian Chief.
1971 Triumph Bonneville


scooterbrain

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Reply #16 on: September 03, 2021, 08:08:19 pm
Here is the latest update.
The bike is back togather and runs like new.
No Knocking and No Ticking. No smoking.
The oil is returning to the filler neck But it must be from the timing chest return.
I rode it for a mile and a half, about 45 mph or so and when I drained the crankcase there was 12 oz oil in there.
Im sure there would be more if I rode another mile or so.
I have the new quill and seal and high capacity return pump from hitchcock and I do have the 2 breather discs installed. I was hoping it would be about 2 or 3 oz.

Its hard to understand it Not pulling the sump oil out since I verified that I can suck oil from the block face And I Bench verified that the return pump sucks quite well at both ports on the pump. One port to the timing chest and one to the sump.
the gasket is in good condition and installed without any sealant and looks correct. I suppose ill try opening up that brass plug .
Im baffled !!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 08:40:16 pm by scooterbrain »
MikeA
1959 Enfield Indian Chief.
1971 Triumph Bonneville


grumbern

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Reply #17 on: September 04, 2021, 08:32:32 am
I have the new quill and seal and high capacity return pump from hitchcock

For the 700cc? The discs of the twins are different from the singles and won't fit each other.


scooterbrain

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Reply #18 on: September 05, 2021, 12:32:23 am
Yep Mr grum, this is the 700cc. I got the discs from Hitchcock and they look to be a perfect fit. Rode again today after draining the crankcsae and pretty much the same deal. Pulled timing cover again and verified punp function and pathways from block to sump and block to tank. Used another quill and new neoprene seal and I rode about 5 miles and at home I drained it again and this time I got 14 oz oil from it.
I have to imagine that if I were to ride 10 miles I would get considerably more oil !!
And I have already tested for oil coming into the crankcase from the tank and that Is Not happening.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 12:38:55 am by scooterbrain »
MikeA
1959 Enfield Indian Chief.
1971 Triumph Bonneville


scooterbrain

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Reply #19 on: September 05, 2021, 02:05:04 pm
Im wondering now about the return pump disc and piston assy. I have used a New std one And used a new High Capacity one from Hitchcock and each time I have followed the directions in the manual and used the slightly longer/stiffer cover spring in the rear at the feed pump and the lighter one at the return pump. It says that when its correct and the covers are attached Tthe "feed" cover at rear will rest 1/4 in off of its mating surface before tightening down And the Return cover will rest 1/8 in off of its mating surface And It Does.

Im considering trying anorher set of springs that I have that are equal in length and pressure with the thought that Maybe the stronger spring Im using now on the feed pump is Un-Seating the Return pump and making it harder for it to pump !. But One of the Two return circuits is pumping because I have return oil at the filler neck. and I also removed the soldier from that brass plug in the timing cover just above the filter housing and the spring and check ball are intact. not sure how far to screw it in though si its about 2 threads below flush.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 02:41:05 pm by scooterbrain »
MikeA
1959 Enfield Indian Chief.
1971 Triumph Bonneville


Adrian II

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Reply #20 on: September 05, 2021, 02:40:05 pm
Is there a recess machined in the back of each pump disk, and if so is each one wide enough to let the pump sit properly in the timing cover, in case there is a "bump" in the oil pump housing where the disc sits? B.W. told me about this the other day, it came up on an engine he'd wordked on.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


scooterbrain

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Reply #21 on: September 05, 2021, 03:39:50 pm
AdrianII Im attaching pictures of the Disks. The feed is New from Hitchcock, the return was identical and also New But the one pictured here is the Newest High Volume return pump from H. first view shows the disc sides with the large recess on the outside for the springs ti fit, Second pic shows the rear of those same discs. Return on Right and Feed on left. Note the Thicker cover with the recess supplied by hitchcock to accomodate the thicker returm disk.
I questioned the single hole in the rear of the New High Cap return pump and hitchcock says thats fine and it works on the bench. Im about ready to try the original Old return disk that I have never tried. Either that or use a pair of equal springs. Everything fits togather very well.
Also to answer your question, Yes there is a recess in the back of the disks and also a recess in each of the bores that the disks fit into in the timing cover
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 03:46:14 pm by scooterbrain »
MikeA
1959 Enfield Indian Chief.
1971 Triumph Bonneville


scooterbrain

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Reply #22 on: September 07, 2021, 04:18:28 pm
In an old thread named "Return Oil Pump Replacement" I see 'Scottie" Finally got his oil leaking issue resolved and his last remark was that he took a short ride and was happy that he Now had 16 oz oil in the crankcase ! So what is the amount of oil "Typically found there"
Ive been worring about mine because even though I have all New engine components , Everything except the timing cover and Block" AND I have the High Capacity Return pump from Hitchcock"  I start with an empty crankcase and ride 2 miles and have 16 oz oil there.
 Mine is a 1959 700cc with the 2 breather discs in place at the breather and the breather copper tube goes directly to the oil tank. Im not having leaks But if I keep riding wont it just continue to fill up ?? I was expecting to find maybe 3 or 4 oz there?. I have return oil at the filler neck but I dont know if its rocker oil or crankcase oil or both.

in my last test i see that both return ports at the block Do dump straight to the Tank And I can suction oil out ofthe crankcase from the block face with the timing cover removed. Also, on the bench, I can motor a worm shaft in the pump and using a rubber hose into and a can of oil I can I can draw plenty oil out of the can from the suction port of the pump that goes to the crankcase.
So How Much Oil should I find in the Crankcase after a couple miles ride ??

Thanks again guys, I know this topic is getting old, but I dont want to run this thing or sell it if its not working properly.
MikeA
1959 Enfield Indian Chief.
1971 Triumph Bonneville


scooterbrain

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Reply #23 on: September 10, 2021, 04:19:10 am
 think I found it !! With my bench test...The pump discharge from the Timing chest port is strong and the discharge from the Crankcase port is 80% less and ariated. Also thehousing and disk are shiny at the bottom of the circle and dull at the top. I hope that maybe I just need to lap the Hell out of it...."Again" Ill go back at it tomorrow and Test Drive on Saturday and let yall Know !!

Also I tripple Verified all pathways "and I mean ALL" for flow and sealing ans seems AOK.
MikeA
1959 Enfield Indian Chief.
1971 Triumph Bonneville


classicrider

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Reply #24 on: September 10, 2021, 09:53:21 pm
Check the crank pin for straight-ness also,i had one slightly bent off 90 deg once and that caused a rocking motion to the disc.All i could think of at the time was it maybe had over pressured some time back and strained the small rod.Was visible
(just) by eyeballing it.
My 700 clears the sump in 1 minute,you can see a virtual continuous flow of oil until it clears then air bubbles start coming through.Oil does drop on the dip stick pretty quickly ,say 2 days and it's off the stick.I have an oil pressure gauge and it goes to 50 psi on start up,(plenty of needle fluctuation there)