[him a layin]

branched out from "leg cramps"
"a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

now i'm curious to know what our non-US members think of the 2nd amendment and our love affair with violence. we are, i believe, the only undisputed superpower. russia has been in decline since the USSR imploded, and china's strength is raw manpower but lacks the infrastructure to project it. is the british commonwealth still a major player? maybe i should go start another thread so this one doesn't get even more cluttered.

[AzCal Retred]

Since we don't function as the manufacturer to the world anymore there is a lot of doubt that another big prolonged conflict would go well for us. After the initial two weeks or so the hi-tech hardware will run out, so we'd best be signing peace treaties on our terms by then because the manufacturing base that won WW2 is long gone. As far as being "the only undisputed superpower" China may have a bone to pick there. They have a blue water Navy, hypersonic glide vehicles to keep the oceans around China ship free, benthic submarines to dissuade the fast attacks. A standing army of 2,000,000 with a reserve of 20,000,000 in a week, 200,000,000 in a month. They have landing craft and artificial armed islands.

History shows organized aggressors (like that asian country with 20, 40, 60 & 80 year plans...) have better outcomes than disorganized, fractured, self deluding ones. 06 Jan just had 20,000 "Meal-Team 6" selfie seekers utterly fail in eliminating a couple hundred capitol police and maybe 300 "undesirable", out of shape elected representatives of Congress and thus creating a new Government for the Dear Leader. The whole US Alt-Reich ultra-violence thing is a self-deluded crock. Crime increases with economic disparity. Running off manufacturing & tech jobs impoverishes the middle class & dumbs down the workforce. Concentrating economic power and influence in the hands of fewer people is bad for society as a whole. As the money funnels upward, the middle class gets squeezed out of existence, gets dumbed down, people get desperate & hopeless, crime goes up.

The US needs to focus more on National survival & less on worshiping & aping the wealthy 0.1%. We need onshore manufacturing for all necessary items. We need an emphasis on practical education and meaningful employment. We need to quit doing things that divide the people of this country and start making it possible to live a useful, valued life regardless of where you were born, based on the what you can do and know, not by accident of birth.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
You can't have "a well regulated militia" peopled by mental defectives or folks that are obsessed with divisiveness. The whole point of a regulated militia is for protection of the common good, not a particular ideology. Weapons are tools, not talismans. Operation of dangerous tools requires self-control, common-sense, rules & training. Those lacking in common-sense or self-control don't need to be operating a forklift, a rough-country crane, a Toyota Corolla or a single-action Army Colt, let alone the Black Rifle. If you are unwilling to clean up your house it'll fill up with crud.

[Richard230]

China has a lot of new military gadgets but do they know how to use them? 

[AzCal Retred]

Well, they have been to the moon, and in the Gobi there is a lifesize aircraft carrier target on tracks. They build most of the electronics in the world. That's in and of itself interesting, noting that there have been several "Commercial ship vs. Naval vessel" collisions in the past several years, to the detriment of the fighting ships capacity to engage. Seems the navigation & collision avoidance radars all magically went fubar at about the same time. A cheap way to make your Navy a lot bigger, eh? And let's not mention the "denial of products & services" angle they are able to bring to bear. By the time you'd re-establish these services in your own country there'd be real problems.

No, I don't think it's in your best interest to underestimate China. Buy a shooting war over Taiwan would certainly sort it out.

[him a layin]

China has a lot of new military gadgets but do they know how to use them? 

i kinda sorta hope that we never have to find out.
some simple organisms might survive.

[Adrian II]

You asked for non-US members' views. As a subject of His Majesty King Charles III, I suppose I qualify.

"a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

This was drawn up in a very different world, I don't think the UK has landed an army in the USA in over two hundred years, and I cannot for the life of me think why any UK government since then would even want to. As for the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, that's another story...  Your country went on to overcome isolationism to help the West win against Kaiser Wilhelm II, Adolf Hitler, and imperial Japan, as well as the huge role in establishing and supporting NATO against the Soviet threat. Doing all that required the build up of the what certainly was the world's greatest superpower with the British Empire now gone. (USA vs China NOW? Hmm...) With that level of military might wielded by the US government, does a post-colonial militia still make sense? The question of whether or not a well-armed populace is an effective barrier to DOMESTIC tyranny is another matter, not one we in the UK have been encouraged to consider in the same way. I wonder why? 

However, the idea of a well-armed and trained citizenry as the backbone of a country's reservist defence is not a bad one, consider the Swiss model. Switzerland does have its problems, I'm sure, but it hasn't seen the social meltdown/polarization that has been stirred up in the USA. The Swiss population certainly has a lot of guns, but they don't seem to go mad with them.

A.

[him a layin]

You asked for non-US members' views. As a subject of His Majesty King Charles III, I suppose I qualify.

yes, you qualify. thanks for sharing your view.

[GlennF]

This was drawn up in a very different world, I don't think the UK has landed an army in the USA in over two hundred years,

No, the Canadians did though and got as far as Washington

[Leofric]

i kinda sorta hope that we never have to find out.
some simple organisms might survive.

Yes, but i think scorpions, cockroaches and some deep sea creatures humans have never seen will inherit the earth .

[Leofric]

No, the Canadians did though and got as far as Washington

I don't think America needs to fear being invaded by Britain or Canada any more.

[Leofric]

You asked for non-US members' views. As a subject of His Majesty King Charles III, I suppose I qualify.

This was drawn up in a very different world, I don't think the UK has landed an army in the USA in over two hundred years, and I cannot for the life of me think why any UK government since then would even want to. As for the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, that's another story...  Your country went on to overcome isolationism to help the West win against Kaiser Wilhelm II, Adolf Hitler, and imperial Japan, as well as the huge role in establishing and supporting NATO against the Soviet threat. Doing all that required the build up of the what certainly was the world's greatest superpower with the British Empire now gone. (USA vs China NOW? Hmm...) With that level of military might wielded by the US government, does a post-colonial militia still make sense? The question of whether or not a well-armed populace is an effective barrier to DOMESTIC tyranny is another matter, not one we in the UK have been encouraged to consider in the same way. I wonder why? 

However, the idea of a well-armed and trained citizenry as the backbone of a country's reservist defence is not a bad one, consider the Swiss model. Switzerland does have its problems, I'm sure, but it hasn't seen the social meltdown/polarization that has been stirred up in the USA. The Swiss population certainly has a lot of guns, but they don't seem to go mad with them.

A.

I generally agree with your comments. In the UK we need a firearms certificate of course to own a gun . Not perfect but it must go some way to stop any lunatic buying and carrying a gun.

[Leofric]

branched out from "leg cramps"
"a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

now i'm curious to know what our non-US members think of the 2nd amendment and our love affair with violence. we are, i believe, the only undisputed superpower. russia has been in decline since the USSR imploded, and china's strength is raw manpower but lacks the infrastructure to project it. is the british commonwealth still a major player? maybe i should go start another thread so this one doesn't get even more cluttered.

The soviet union might have collapsed but we shouldn't need reminding Russia is still a threat to the world. They talked about the end of the cold war but all the nuclear weapons never went away.

[Leofric]

'The US needs to focus more on National survival & less on worshiping & aping the wealthy 0.1%. We need onshore manufacturing for all necessary items. We need an emphasis on practical education and meaningful employment. We need to quit doing things that divide the people of this country and start making it possible to live a useful, valued life regardless of where you were born, based on the what you can do and know, not by accident of birth.'
Well said. Same here in UK.

[Leofric]

'Your country went on to overcome isolationism to help the West win against Kaiser Wilhelm II, Adolf Hitler, and imperial Japan, as well as the huge role in establishing and supporting NATO against the Soviet threat. '
Yes, I think most people in UK don't forget that.

[Richard230]

'The US needs to focus more on National survival & less on worshiping & aping the wealthy 0.1%. We need onshore manufacturing for all necessary items. We need an emphasis on practical education and meaningful employment. We need to quit doing things that divide the people of this country and start making it possible to live a useful, valued life regardless of where you were born, based on the what you can do and know, not by accident of birth.'
Well said. Same here in UK.

Speaking of the wealthy 0.1%, it was announced yesterday that a California state legislator, along with legislators in 6 other "progressive" states such as New York and Washington, introduced a tax bill (all on the same day) that would tax the assets of anyone owning more that $50 million of stuff a certain amount each year to make sure that they are forced to pay "their fair share" of taxes each year. This proposed law has been in the legislature's hopper for several years and gone nowhere, but this year they think it will pass - because the state needs the money to keep its social programs up and running.   

BTW, I keep hearing the phrase "make them pay their fair share". But no one seems to be able to say what a taxpayer's fair share is, other than it is more than they are paying now.   

[him a layin]

"the americans always do the right thing, after they've tried everything else." - w. churchill (allegedly)

[Casanova]

"the americans always do the right thing, after they've tried everything else." - w. churchill (allegedly)

Running out of options is a result of failure to sustain alternative, not a situation that's very desirable to achieve and likely to lead into totalitarianism only.

Churchill was at war, war doesn't build economy for sustainable life. There's not much to conquer to live from either such as the roman empire did, in today's world.

[AzCal Retred]

   Running out of options is a result of failure to sustain alternatives, not a situation that's very desirable to achieve and is likely to lead into totalitarianism.
   Churchill was at war, war doesn't build economy for sustainable life. There's not much to conquer to live from either such as the roman empire did, in today's world.

WOW! Our guy's BAAACK!!   
Thoughtful & to the point. Well spoken!
Next, we'll need a plan & options...

"Remember: A bad plan is better than no plan..."

[AzCal Retred]

Bad Ideas:
It's a bad idea to outbreed the food supply.
It's a bad idea to degrade the local environment to the point there's no biodiversity left. I
t's a bad idea to contaminate and degrade a common resource like the atmosphere, your groundwater, the soil or the ocean.
It's a bad idea to have leadership based on "accident of birth" and social connections rather than demonstrated ability & competency.
It's a bad idea to allow raw capitalism to dominate the political process.

Maybe good ideas:
It might be a good idea to tie citizenship to accomplishment & investment. Voting ability should be tied to completing the same political course as immigrants and successfully completing military service, serving in a "Peace Corps" style organization or achieving competency in & maintaining a productive job for 5 years.
It might be a good idea to require a base level of food and workaday hardware production to come from inside your own country. Tariffs will be involved.
It might be a good idea to break up Agribusiness mega-farms and distribute leases to 160 acre parcels to qualifying  actual Family Farmers.
It might be a good idea to step on the neck of Agribusiness corporations breeding GMO plants that don't reseed themselves and require company specific pesticides. These same Agribusinesses need to be reined in from prosecuting farmers from saving their own seed. Breeding & gene-splicing plants that only you can reproduce has to stop.
It might be a good idea to re-establish the commodities program. 100 pounds of rice & beans, a 20 pound block of cheese, a 10 pound box of powdered milk, a bag of sugar and some freeze-dried vegetables and you won't go hungry. It supports family farms and cuts out the prepared food and recreational food industries.
It might be a good idea to require people to know where (& how) food comes from and how to use basic ingredients to keep yourself fed and healthy.
It might be a good idea to apply the law uniformly regardless of economic status. That means no special country club prisons or home arrest in your penthouse.
It might be a good idea to require new drivers to have a monitored vehicle, recording driving habits for 2 years. Those unable to demonstrate self control can be excluded from the licensed population. Small economy hatchbacks could be supplied for a low fee for those unable to obtain suitable vehicles. These could be maintained by High School, Community College and Prison auto shop classes.

[Casanova]

My main point I was trying to make was that taking big quotes out of context can be misleading, disinformativ and not unlikely to be used as tool of propaganda.

[AzCal Retred]

...such as?

[Leofric]

"Remember: A bad plan is better than no plan..."
They said something like that about Brexit , and look where that has got us !

[him a layin]

or, "a good plan today is better than a perfect plan in two weeks"

[GlennF]

“We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. Presumably the plans for our employment were being changed. I was to learn later in life that, perhaps because we are so good at organizing, we tend as a nation to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.” - Charlton Ogburn, pp. 32-33, “Merrill’s Marauders: The truth about an incredible adventure,” Harper’s Magazine, January 1957

[AzCal Retred]

@ #21: "Remember: a bad plan is better than no plan..."They said something like that about Brexit , and look where that has got us !

Brexit was an up/down vote. The implementation of that dumb-ass vote was where "bad plan vs. no plan" comes into play. Letting it crash land was worse than a poor implementation.

[Leofric]

@ #21: "Remember: a bad plan is better than no plan..."They said something like that about Brexit , and look where that has got us !


Brexit was an up/down vote. The implementation of that dumb-ass vote was where "bad plan vs. no plan" comes into play. Letting it crash land was worse than a poor implementation.

There were comments in my local paper recently about people not getting the Brexit they 'craved ',Northern Ireland being left out on a limb, among other things. That is the e
I would say it would be interesting to know what sort of Brexit did people crave that would not have created a problem for Northern Ireland ?

[GlennF]

There were comments in my local paper recently about people not getting the Brexit they 'craved ',Northern Ireland being left out on a limb, among other things. That is the e
I would say it would be interesting to know what sort of Brexit did people crave that would not have created a problem for Northern Ireland ?

They probably thought a sovereign post-Brexit Britain would be so amazingly successful and wondrous that the Free State would kick out all the Fenians and rejoin the UK with cap in hand.

[Richard230]

They probably thought a sovereign post-Brexit Britain would be so amazingly successful and wondrous that the Free State would kick out all the Fenians and rejoin the UK with cap in hand.

More likely the people who voted for Brexit just wanted to go back to the "good old days".  Just like today's Russians want to go back to the good old USSR when standing in line for a loaf of bread for a few hours let you meet all of your neighbors. 

[Leofric]

They probably thought a sovereign post-Brexit Britain would be so amazingly successful and wondrous that the Free State would kick out all the Fenians and rejoin the UK with cap in hand.

I don't remember it being a big consideration at the time of the referendum,so a lot of people probably hardly considered it might be a problem.
(but we were subjected to such a 'Farage' of anti EU propaganda who knows what people thought !)