Author Topic: "Rocker" 535 Bullet - Iron Barrel + Electra X Hybrid  (Read 370 times)

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StreetKleaver

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on: January 14, 2023, 11:42:21 pm




Hi guys. I'm a frequent poster I've got this 2004 Bullet 500 "E". It's seen loads of extensive work all detailed in it's own thread in the Iron Barrel section here. It's been a lot of changes and upgrades and here sooner than expected, it's going through some more
Thread ---->https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=32484.0

Although this new engine build would be more appropriate here in this section since it's heart is going to be more Electra than Iron Barrel.

So this point in time came sooner rather than later, which I was not expecting.
The Cylinder is worn out! Piston rings are still sealing at 165psi, but when I stripped the head off to pop on some valve guide seals. I gave the piston a wiggle and had 0.5mm of breathing room.

So the bore is done. That last light hone to get the new rings to bed in was the end of it. Especially being 535 +40 oversize.
Which concludes that venture of its Iron Barrel life.



I've had a Electra X 500 head in my possession a while now just sitting on the shelf staring at me. So now it's time to crack on with it's next iteration of this bikes Evolution!
I managed to score the Head and !!Brand New!! Hitchcocks 535 Barrel within our small circle of Royal Enfield enthusiasts here in Australia.

Pictured is Left is the stock GT535 piston and right is the Hitchcocks Accralite 535 piston with a raised crown.



In typical AVL head fashion the valve seats are proud of the casting. Also the inlet port is bigger than the inlet valve seat. So the seat will need will need removing, filling with weld and seat re-machined and installed.
I found that UCE valve spring assemblies can be used. So I'll be opting for a Hitchcocks UCE competition valve spring set. Unfortunately UCE valves vs AVL valves are so close, but no cigar. Their dimensions match utill the last segment after the collet groove on the stem. The AVL valves are longer. The GT535 inlet valve is only 1mm bigger. Exhaust is the same.
I did email HMC asking if the UCE vs AVL valve guides are the same but apparently they are different also. I was hoping I could use some Phosphor bronze valve guides. I'll see if there is any on offer.





For head work. I'll be basically copying my GT535 head. It has yielded great results. It went from barely being able to reach 80mph to now it cracks 100mph. 102mph when it hits the stock redline. The combustion chamber is very similar to the Electra X/AVL 500 head. Basically tidying it up and un-shrouding the valves to promote better flowing (Bullet Whisperers Technique). Get those valve seats sitting flush. Tidy the ports, especially the inlet port. It's pretty big in diameter as is! So I won't get hungry and take that out larger. It will remain the 34-35mm mark the best I can.

The exhaust port has a lot more room for improvement. At present its around 27mm. The seat measures 30mm. So I'll open that up to 30mm all the way through.

Here's my GT535 Head for comparison.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2023, 11:44:33 pm by StreetKleaver »
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #1 on: January 15, 2023, 12:28:44 am
On to the first job. Scored a cheap 2nd hand Electra X timing cover. Finish is in rough shape, its been painted with some sort of rubbish paint.



Stripped it down. The pump spindle is shot and its missing 3 out of the 4 pump gears along with the 2 short spindles. Also missing both Feed and Scavenge Covers. Luckily I have a new spare spindle already.



The Iron Barrel Cover vs the Electra X Cover. Disregard the powder. It was packing in a OMO washing powder box. Haha



Now for some "home" machining. I am a machinist at work. But unfortunately I don't have access to a End Mill,  Although my trusty old drill press has got some tricks it can perform.
Grabbed a old 20mm twist drill and ground some edges that more resemble a end mill bit. To get it to cut even I bearing blue the end, and then fine tune the cutting edges till the both make even contact on the work piece.

Getting a gold hold in the vice with the job all square and level was the trickiest part. Then it was just spot facing with little nibbles at a time. The finish came up quite nice surprisingly!
Then bored the idler spindle holes appropriately with the same interference fit as the Iron Barrel timing cover. Added bonus the Electra X timing cover already had the idler spindle holes piloted in the correct position.



Fits a treat. Just as well as the Stock IB cover.



The head to a trip with me to work to get sand blasted. Mate that powder coat on that head was thick! After knock off it took me 2hrs to blast that head clean. There's something about RE powder coat and me that I loathe! I had a big battle with the powder coat stripping on my GT535 engine too. I said never again and here I am. Doing it again! %#&! Haha



Here's where we are at so far. Timing cover paint stripped and fitted nicely ready for polishing. Head all clean and everything is progressing along steady.



 
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #2 on: January 15, 2023, 12:47:42 am
While I'm waiting to parts to arrive. The crank I'll be using is the Machismo A350 early type CDI crank. I've learned that the drive shaft can be pressed out and the Iron Barrel drive shaft pressed in so my current stator and rotor can be used  along with my Ignition. Which is Pazon Electronic ignition., It's a very good system.

RE Part No #500229 (Pictured from Hitchcocks)



From sources the rough weight of this 350 crank is 8 to 8.5kgs. Compared to a typical 500cc Iron Barrel Crank of 10ish kgs.
I've been trying to find out what the known Crank Balance factor is but it seems to be a grey area or those cards are held close to the chest.

I've started collecting data of my own. For the Crank and Piston assembly I'll be using the Standard UCE GT535 Piston and UCE conrod. The barrel will be shortened so the GT535 piston crown is flush with the deck height of Barrel (Know squish mod in these parts). As well as using the larger UCE GT535 head gasket. I've read instances that the piston crown has come in contact with the stock AVL 500 gasket when this modification has been performed.

Here's the weights of the total piston assemblies I've taken for when my new crank arrives.

Accralite Iron Barrel 535 +40 Piston (definitely a bit of a lump as to their reputation)



Accralite 535 (standard bore) Electra X Piston (Hitchcocks raised crown)



Standard UCE GT535 piston



From a glance the crank and piston assembly is going to be reduced by 2kgs by the time of installation. Which also draws me to comparison to my GT535. They have lighter cranks around the 8kg mark compared to their 500 UCE Classic counterparts. Torque wise, I couldn't notice the difference between my friends 500 UCE and my GT. But acceleration wise the GT, even in its stock trim was a lot quicker off the mark.
With the GT's behavior they tend to get their vibration around 4500rpm. To the UCE Classic 500s vibrate lower in the rpm range guessing that's the differences in their balance factor.

I'm only guessing/speculating at this point. I'll check it all when it lands on my bench and I build the crank.
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Adrian II

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Reply #3 on: January 15, 2023, 03:14:25 pm
I was thinking I could just slip in here for a quiet snooze, no-one ever comes in here anymore...  Wrong! ;D

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


bthtony55?

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Reply #4 on: January 15, 2023, 05:30:49 pm
I have a copy of RealClassic from March 2018. An article be Roger Slater on his late 500 efi rebuild and update makes interesting reading. He found his motor vibrated and on checking the BF it was only 42%. Way too low as most similar 500 singles are about 66% ish. His friend Fritz Egli who has done much work and development on these motors recommended 58 - 60% which Roger did. This was for the late Bullet Classic EFI C5 etc single down tube frames. The later twins are different.
He said when it was all back together the difference was remarkable with almost no vibes. Maybe this is the way to go. Make sure the crank runs true though.
Tony


StreetKleaver

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Reply #5 on: January 15, 2023, 08:23:47 pm
I have a copy of RealClassic from March 2018. An article be Roger Slater on his late 500 efi rebuild and update makes interesting reading. He found his motor vibrated and on checking the BF it was only 42%. Way too low as most similar 500 singles are about 66% ish. His friend Fritz Egli who has done much work and development on these motors recommended 58 - 60% which Roger did. This was for the late Bullet Classic EFI C5 etc single down tube frames. The later twins are different.
He said when it was all back together the difference was remarkable with almost no vibes. Maybe this is the way to go. Make sure the crank runs true though.
Tony

Thats very interesting. Thanks for that bit of information.

The new EFI singles aren't too different internally with their crank arrangements compared to their older pre unit predecessors.

I can't really check until the crank arrives.
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bthtony55?

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Reply #6 on: January 15, 2023, 09:07:17 pm
The frames are about the same like the bore and stroke of the motor. it sounds about right to me.
Tony


Mr_84

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Reply #7 on: January 16, 2023, 06:15:29 am
bthtony55? that’s a great article you have led us to 👍

This behemoth AVL in your hands Ben will most definitely be a exhilarating viewing experience, I’m getting the popcorn ready 🍿


Adrian II

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Reply #8 on: January 16, 2023, 12:58:52 pm
The potential of the AVL engines was never properly developed by the factory.

Once you've applied all the fixes for the known mechanical weaknesses, there's actually quite a decent motor in there begging to be unleashed. The original 350 AVLs (early ones came with Dell'Orto PHBH28 carbs) are supposed to be quite nippy little machines. The motor in this project doesn't have an electric start, it's already using iron barrel Bullet tappets instead of the more fragile version fitted to the AVL, and as a pre-emptive new big-end is planned it looks like all the problem areas are already dealt with. Get the crank balance, carb and cams right, and the thing ought to put a decent grin on your face.

An early (blueprinted?) factory prototype of the Electra-X found its way over to the UK, John Hutchings of Tollgate Classics owned it for a while, and he reckoned it went VERY well indeed.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


allanfox

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Reply #9 on: January 17, 2023, 09:01:09 am
I was thinking I could just slip in here for a quiet snooze, no-one ever comes in here anymore...  Wrong! ;D

A.

Haha, just thinking that!


StreetKleaver

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Reply #10 on: January 25, 2023, 10:58:14 am
So the motor is out and cases split. From the looks of those inner bearing races it was about due for a freshen up. This engine has done 10 years as a 535 and then nearly 2 years with a power upgrade at my hands.



Oil tank has a heathy amount of sludge in there.  :o
Definitely showing that those cases haven't been apart in some time.





On to the Crank. In India this would be considered the holy grail of cranks so I'm told. The chonky lad 10.5kg crank with Hitchcocks steel rod and big end.



Here's the total assembly weight. 11.2kg!!
Maaate that's a lot of mass being flung around in there. With all these components even with the heavier Hitchcocks piston the Balance factor worked out to be 0.66 (66%)



For the futures task of truing and balancing cranks. I whipped up a stand. Despite it's industrial appreance and heavy enough that you could true up a diesel boat stern drive shaft on, it's very accurate.
Since this photo I've faced down the bolt heads on the bearings and also gave it a paint.

I checked the run out on this crank I removed. It wasn't great at all. 0.2mm on the timing side, 0.4mm on the drive side at 30 degrees between the high points. But riding the bike it wasn't too bad. Well within Enfield acceptance.


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bthtony55?

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Reply #11 on: January 26, 2023, 09:18:56 pm
I would check the Balance factor before you strip the crank. It certainly needs to run better than that after.