[harleykenn]

I recently purchased a 2008 Woodsman, (pre unit)  I haven't ridden it yet, but have started it a few times,
now it doesn't want to start, i fitted a new battery today, when i checked the spark the plug only fires when i release the starter,   sometimes when pressing the starter nothing happens until i press the horn at the same time, then it turns over, but still sparks the same.   Any ideas?

[AzCal Retred]

Any Pictures? What's your expertise level? How're your electrical troubleshooting skills? Do you know about Hitchcock's Royal Enfield Online Parts diagrams and downloadable manuals?  Virtually any part you would need is only 3 to 6 days out.
Here's the parts diagram for a 2008 machine:  https://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/partsbook/340/2008-electra-x
Here's the link to the Electra-X downloadable manual:
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/core/media/media.nl?id=238414&c=1062795&h=8e3c66022e672056498b&_xt=.pdf

There's no factory "Woodsman", so someone built it. The newer bikes had clutch interlock switches and start permissive relays. Without pics we have no idea what you are really dealing with. Download the manual, look over the parts list, take some pics of the machine overall and the wiring inside the headlight shell, under the seat & in the toolboxes. Help us help you.

A 2008 Electra will have a crank-mounted electronic ignition, so it'll be a bit different than the older "points" machines. Lots of folks here able to help, just get us some info.

[Paul W]

If it has TCI ignition it won’t have a distributor fitted and the rear side of the timing case won’t have been machined out for one.

The photo here is my 2004, Indian home market 350 Bullet Electra which has TCI ignition and no distributor; is your bike similar (albeit with a starter motor)?

Is your new battery fully charged? That type of ignition needs a minimum of 7 volts to work. If the voltage drop using the starter gets down that low, there won’t be a spark.

Will it spark using the kick start? That way the starter motor won’t draw any current.

An alternative trouble shoot would be to use jump leads from another good battery while trying the starter. Careful with the connections due to lack of space if doing this - you don’t want to touch the positive lead to the bike frame!

[harleykenn]

Hi Paul, Thanks for your reply,  Your casing looks the same as mine, (yours is much much cleaner)!  Ichecked the spark with the kicker as you suggested,  although the battery and plug are new spark doesn't seem that good,
but it did spark.  I'm not familiar with Enfields and have no idea at present what sort of ignition system it has.
 I just found it strange that it only fires when you release the starter?
  I'm going to try to add some photos to my original post, as you guys will know better than me what you are
looking at.    Thanks.YHWEDR

[harleykenn]

Woodsman photos, ( Woodsman is made by Watsonian in the UK.)    Sorry, I can't see anyway of uploading photos from my computer onto here.

[Adrian II]

Your bike is a special marketed by the former UK importer of Indian Bullets, Watsonian-Squire, though they were and still are better known as sidecar manufacturers. This (other colo(u)rs were available):



Photo: MCN

They offered a range of styling kits for both iron barrel and Electra-X lean-burn variants of the Bullet, both in cafe racer and (semi) off-road trim, their Woodsman was one of the latter. Notable features were a really ugly high-level exhaust down the left hand side (unless it has been replaced by a roadster system), solo seat and, unusually for a trail bike, rear-set foot controls. The Woodsman name was taken from on older (and better looking!) UK-built Bullet model sold under the Indian name in the USA in the late 50s.



Picture: www.re-indian.com

Ignition on yours is (electronic) TCI driven off the crankshaft, so no points assembly behind the cylinder as on (most) iron barrel models. Sometimes the neutral light switch on the back of the gearbox will stick and you won't be able to use the electric start unless you pull the clutch lever in. Later versions of the Electra-X were fitted with a spark delay mechanism, allowing the engine to turn an extra revolution as a means of avoiding back fires and saving the electric starter's sprag clutch from self-destruction, a very common occurrence. Check for the green TCI box which yours will most likely have.

If you want to post a photo up on here, when you next go to type a message look out for the attachments option at the bottom of your text box, if you photos aren't to big as computer files they should upload OK. The other way is to sign up for a photo hosting web site, upload your photos there, preferably using the 640x480 size option, your hosting site should then offer you different types of link to copy and paste into your message, the one you will need will probably called something like Hotlink for Forums.

Hope this helps.

A.

[Paul W]

At least you have proven the ignition system works provided with enough voltage.

Have you checked the kill switch isn’t faulty?

Your comment about pressing the horn button makes me think this might be an earthing problem, or a wrongly replaced wire. If it were my bike I’d be checking the wiring inside and from the handle bar switches. If they are similar to the ones on my bike (mine doesn’t have a starter switch, but it does have a kill switch on the right side) they come apart easy enough. Make sure any control cable ferrules don’t drop out and disappear…..been there.

[harleykenn]

Hi Paul.  I connected up the battery from my Jeep directly to the bikes terminals after removing the battery, still nothing, just tried wit pulling the clutch in still nothing,   When pressing the starter there's a very quiet click from the solenoid/relay thing, normally on cars and stuff  a dodgy solenoid would click loudly,    i think there's a short somewhere or as you say an earth problem, even with the Jeep battery the indicators and lights don't work properly.
 i do have that green box under the seat  you mentioned i removed the connections and cleaned them yesterday.
  I'll try and upload photos on here as you advised.  Thanks again.
           Seems to have worked, only allowed four.

[Paul W]

Your bike has the later AVL engine, I see.

At least you’ve proved it’s not the battery.

The starter mechanism sprag clutch on these bikes is known to be prone to self destruction. It is possible that yours has a problem causing an abnormally high current draw, dropping the voltage.

I forgot to mention that my 350, which I’ve run for 18,000 miles, recently began misfiring if I turned OFF the sidelights, but then ran normally as soon as I switched them back on again. I stripped the switch and checked everything inside. It looked good to me but having cleaned and reassembled it the fault was still present. I changed the switch for a new one and the fault was gone. I wonder if your switch is faulty?  The switch on my bike is a MINDA one and likely to be almost identical to yours. Obviously yours will be slightly more complicated due to the need for a starter button. It’s possible that yours has a fault. These parts are readily available in the online auction sites and inexpensive.

[richard211]

If the spark plug was removed and grounded to the engine and the engine spun over by using the kick lever, check whether there is any spark at the spark plug.

[harleykenn]

Paulw.   I did remove the light /starter switch and gave it a squirty clean, but was reluctan to pull it apart
because as you said bits fall out!  I noticed that the indicator horn swithces were the same make as your switch,
i'll check online as you suggested.  Thanks again.

[AzCal Retred]

My dos pesos:

In the downloadable Electra manual on page 149/234, diagram 07-3 shows there is a side stand permissive switch for the TCI unit. it also shows the (+) red/white from the main key switch passing thru the kill switch PB and then exiting as a brown to a 10A fuse. All of these can be trouble points, plus any intermediate connections.

Page 150/234  diagram 07-4 shows the brown wire exiting the kill switch as feeding both the ignition coil and the start PB. The blue/white (+) exiting the start PB goes to the start solenoid. The start solenoid grounds thru either the neutral switch or the clutch handle switch.

What I would do:
1) Bypass the side stand switch for the TCI.
2) Permanently hard ground the start solenoid (-) side, skip the neutral switch/clutch switch high resistance ground path hoohaa.
3) Skip the handlebar mount kill switch entirely. Feed the TCI fuse, the ignition coil and start PB directly from the red/white that enters the Kill Switch. Parallel it in with a ScotchLoc or similar, or solder if you can.

At this point it is back to 1960's riding. To start, either be in neutral or pull the clutch lever, main key ON, hit the start PB. The solenoid will "klack" as it picks up, as it's supposed to. If not replace it. If you are kick starting you must be in neutral anyway. The kill switch is just a point of failure and it's not a dirt bike. After I did all this to my ES350 it started flawlessly, as the start solenoid and ignition got full voltage instead of whatever was left after it passed thru the dodgy Kill Switch. Eliminating the poor start solenoid ground paths made it very positive in action. As the ignition is directly from the main switch output, there's only the main contacts left to get hinky, not a bunch of intermediary lawyer mandated kak. All of this stuff is a source of failure, none of it replaces common sense; you won't miss any of it - I didn't.

Good hunting - ACR -

[Paul W]

Thankfully, my TCI bike has never had a sidestand switch, or a clutch switch.

Just a key ignition and kill switch. Easier to live with.

[harleykenn]

ACR,   Thanks,  I can't work out what PB is or TCI?  is TCI the green box?    I have never used the side stand,
as i haven't ridden the bike it spends all its time on the centre stand, there does appear to be som switch on the stand but i don't see any wiring, but i'll give it a clean and get it off,  there are three wires exiting from under the clutch lever,  but i have never pulled in the clutch to start it ait started fine,  i fitted a new starter relay thuingy this morning
and it now turns ove when pressing the starter, but still only sparks when you release the starter, also the spark is very weak, i tested the plug on my Aprilia and it sparks fine,   have ordered new coil,  if that doesn't work  i guess it will be a new green box!   Ken.

[AzCal Retred]

https://www.shindengen.com/products/electro/motorcycle/dccdi/
TCI (Transistor Controlled Igniter)
CDI (Capacitor Discharge Igniter)
PB = Push Button

Until you have the wiring diagram in your possession, have looked it over thoroughly and start to understand it, guessing, buying and replacing electrical parts & assemblies is just an expensive hobby. Maybe you'll get lucky, maybe you'll run out of disposable motorcycle money.

You say your spark happens only when you release the starter PB, so there is a wiring/switch issue. A new $150 TCI box won't fix an existing wiring/switch issue. Get out the wiring diagram, get out the VOM (Volt-Ohm-Meter) and suss it out methodically. Flailing just leads to puzzlement & frustration.

The wiring diagram will show you when and how the various bits are connected. Every useless "safety" switch just adds another failure point. Unless these switches ohm out to near zero ohms, they are an impediment to function. The start PB should have nothing to do with the TCI ignition, you need to find out why yours is behaving this way and defang it.  SImple is good on these machines.

Get the info and tools you need, understand them, apply them. Riding something with a "mystery problem" requires a very good cell phone, an active AAA card and a willingness to stand at the side of the road for awhile in random locations.

Electricity isn't that hard, just learn & trust your tools and follow (and confirm... ) the diagrams.