[Rick Dangerous]

They have quite the growing market share in North America and in Europe.  Sooner or later if they keep growing in this market they will likely have to offer something bigger right, as is the preference of many consumers in this market?

I mean i'd buy an Interceptor 900 for $8000.

What are your thoughts on this?

[AzCal Retred]

Here you go, just plonk down some coin for this bad boy and you are already $7,000 ahead.
An automatic fresh top end, and probably even lighter than the stock 650 as the holes are bigger...

865cc Big Bore Kit for Royal Enfield® 650 Twins
Item #: 920-0145: $759.95: https://www.sscycle.com/products/865cc-big-bore-kit-for-royal-enfield-650-twins/

[Karl Childers]

I think if RE can firmly establish their export market in Europe and the US than it is a definite possibility they could sell larger bikes. I think their 650 Interceptors are laying the ground work for this with their popularity and reliability. I'd love to see them build a big displacement retro model V twin along the the lines of what they built in the 30's or a 1200 cc parallel twin like Triumph's big scrambler. Ultimately it will be what the millennia's are willing to buy as the baby boomer are dropping out of the market.

[zimmemr]

Interesting question. I'd like to see something a bit bigger, but I don't see them building anything much larger than a 900 based on the current architecture. Much larger than that and they'd need to add water cooling to keep emissions and noise down, especially if they want it to make any real power.

A 1000cc liquid cooled twin would allow them a lot of latitude though. They could build a Standard, an ADV and a tourer/cruiser using the same basic platform, much like Triumph does with their twin cylinder line.

BUT and here's the big one for me, right now they can get by with what's arguably one of the worst dealer networks in the industry, in large part because the bikes are easy to maintain and lend themselves to shade tree mechanic repairs and let's be honest the owners tend to be a bit quirky and take a perverse pride in owning a quirky bike. 

If they were to build something more sophisticated, read that as expensive if you want, aimed at a more upscale market, they'd really need to improve the dealer experience, at least in the US.

FWIW Prior to buying my Interceptor I owned a Triumph Commander LT, it was a great bike, and on the surface should have been easy to maintain, but it was far from it. I've been a mechanic for over 50 years now, and that Triumph was the biggest pain in the ass to work on I've ever encountered. Just replacing the sparkplugs was an all-day affair and required draining the cooling system. If RE where to go down that path, it wouldn't be pretty and might end up being a sales disaster.

[axman88]

Although unquestionably RE exports are up, easily three times what they were just a few years ago, they still represent a relatively small percentage of total sales.  While I've been watching, over the last 3 or 4 years, exports have never accounted for more than 15% of monthly total sales, and generally much lower, around 5-7%.

Here's some numbers from this recently past January:    https://www.rushlane.com/royal-enfield-sales-breakup-jan-2022-classic-meteor-12427493.html   

Exports were 9112, domestic sales 49,726, which is a strong export but poor domestic sales month for RE.  Looking more closely, we see that of those export sales, 5396 units were 411s and 350s, and 3716 were 650s.  Almost 60% of the export sales were of the smaller bikes.

We can also see that only 1238 units of 650 twins were sold in India.  The 650s do not sell very well in India, and only represented 8% of total sales worldwide for January.

So, if we are asking, "Will Royal Enfield invest considerable time and capital to produce a low selling "prestige" machine primarily for export", I think all evidence suggests that this is exactly what their 650 already is.

I personally don't see RE expending considerable effort to try to go head to head with big bike makers.  In fact, as fuel prices increase, it's not unreasonable to expect that the demand for smaller machines will increase.  I for one, now knowing what 65 mpg + can feel like with my C5, have very little interest in going back to a 38 mpg hog.

[Carl Fenn]

Well when you consider the facts and home market l don’t predict RE will manufacture a 800 or 1200 machine, they would rely on world wide sales which would be low, fuel economy is what they stick to for the home markets and improvement of current models, personally l can’t see anything bigger coming out of RE stable than the 650 in the foreseeable future, and modifications and changes to smaller bikes as they are currently doing to trawl that segment of the market.

[AzCal Retred]

Axman88 @ #4: If you aren't careful you are going to get someone's "cousinbrother" fired and yourself a job offer...! 

In any case, the 835cc kit is readily available and renders the question moot. More grunt in the same weight package for about a grand is a good deal.
You don't have to swap/sell your existing machine, you don't have to become a de-facto "Product Crash Test Dummy" for a new model, and your well sorted 650 just gets gruntier with a new top end. What's not to like?

If you must have a bargain basement but nice, well-sorted 1L V-twin, just get a used Suzuki V-Strom for $3500 - $6000. I haven't yet seen a Japanese machine that won't run 100K with reasonable maintenance, most used ones have 20k to maybe 50k on the clock, lots of spunk left.

RE will do what the numbers tell them to. As Axman88 has pointed out, we're a pretty small slice of the RE pie. And as Zimmemr says, the dealer network is pretty thin, you'll end up doing your own work anyway. So the 835cc kit is looking pretty good if you need more ponies, a much better option than "waiting for (Indian) Godot" to build you bargain priced wonder bike. Life is short - drop some cash, turn a few wrenches & go faster if that's your thing.

[Carl Fenn]

Well good point l missed that one, but in saying that my 650 is faster enough for me and has enough ponies.

[Keef Sparrow]

Although unquestionably RE exports are up, easily three times what they were just a few years ago, they still represent a relatively small percentage of total sales.  While I've been watching, over the last 3 or 4 years, exports have never accounted for more than 15% of monthly total sales, and generally much lower, around 5-7%.

We can also see that only 1238 units of 650 twins were sold in India.  The 650s do not sell very well in India, and only represented 8% of total sales worldwide for January.

Nail on the head. Nearly all of RE's sales are in the home market - export sales are are very insignificant part of their business. There simply isn't the demand in the Indian market for a bike over 650cc because of the state of the roads in that country and the fact much much mileage is done on dirt roads - so they are unlikely to bother making one in the foreseeable future.

[AzCal Retred]

CF @ #7: Ditto! The Interceptors 6 speeds & 45 HP will get you anywhere you need to be at a good clip. My IB's are likely 1/3rd of that HP number and they provide me with plenty of fun. Even the current crop of modern 500 twins is about as powerful as the old 1970's era 750's used to be. 100 MPH is just too damn fast for me anymore.    A Himalayan with a Hitchcock's 460 kit would be about all the bike I'd need.

https://ridermagazine.com/2021/01/04/2021-benelli-leoncino-trail-first-look-review/

https://www.advpulse.com/adv-news/honda-announces-2022-cb500x-updates-and-pricing-for-the-u-s/

[Morgan65]

I’m still waiting for the sexy REs concept 838 KX Bobber.

https://www.mototechindia.com/royal-enfield-bobber-838-price-specs-images-india-launch/

[AzCal Retred]

Apparently there is a group making a one off 822 twin based on the Himalayan 411...?!? Look in the Himalayan Thread.

[James.]

They have quite the growing market share in North America and in Europe.  Sooner or later if they keep growing in this market they will likely have to offer something bigger right, as is the preference of many consumers in this market?

I mean i'd buy an Interceptor 900 for $8000.

What are your thoughts on this?

I think they are more likely to build a 250cc or a 125cc.Its all down to economy and where their bread and butter is. That being India.

[AzCal Retred]

I think they are more likely to build a 250cc or a 125cc.Its all down to economy and where their bread and butter is. That being India.

Taking the Hunter down to a 60.6mm bore from 72mm yields a 248cc motor...all for the price of a smaller, maybe heavier piston and thicker cylinder liner. That leaves suspension, wheels, tires, fenders, etc. for cost savings measures to hit a price point. Making more of what you already have saves retooling and R&D monies.

There are lots of 125cc - 200cc bikes being manufactured in India already. It'd be tough to justify making a whole separate product line for a market that's already well served.

[Warwick]

A new Vtwin retro of the KX would be great!!! However, who would be the target market? All the old fellas in vintage clubs call RE fake anyway (their loss) and harley riders wont swap! No way it would sell in india! Just not financially viable but here's hoping

[axman88]

A new Vtwin retro of the KX would be great!!! However, who would be the target market? All the old fellas in vintage clubs call RE fake anyway (their loss) and harley riders wont swap! No way it would sell in india! Just not financially viable but here's hoping

I think you are referring to the Harley "K" model flathead engine, released in 1952?   There were various models, but none were "KX"    https://www.harleykmodel.com/index.html

The most famous "KX" moto, that I'm aware of, is Kawasaki's family of dirt bikes, still in production.   https://www.kawasaki.com/en-us/motorcycle/kx

If anybody was going to produce a retro motorcycle inspired by the Harley K sidevalve, I'd predict it would be Shineray.  They  have apparently decided to step into the considerable gap left when HD elected to close their Bawal India plant, cutting off the flow of Indian assembled Sportsters to Europe and Asia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA1QgIY2ZC0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZu4qkfMAUo

I wondered what Shineray was planning to do with the engine they were showing around earlier this year:
https://bikereview.com.au/carbon-copy-shineray-replicate-harley-davidson-evolution-1200/ 

Now we know.

It seems that SWM, Shineray's Italian affiliate, has accomplished what so many claimed HD could not do, get the old aircooled, pushrod Vee engine to meet current euro emissions standards.

I'd suggest that it are those standards, that are the reason no manufacturer would take on the challenge of designing a modern side valve engine of any substantial capacity.  Even lawnmowers are going to overhead cams.

[Warwick]

K and KX Royal Enfield. An iconic Royal Enfield

[axman88]

K and KX Royal Enfield. An iconic Royal Enfield

Ahhh!  Of course.  And that's the answer to the OPs big question, too.  RE WILL, definitely make an 800-1200 cc bike!

A 1000 cc in 1930:
    https://www.yesterdays.nl/product/royal-enfield-1930-model-k-1000-cc-2-cyl-sv/

And an 1140 cc in 1938:
    https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/gallery/royal-enfield-kx-in-pictures-1140cc-v-twin-gear-shifts-by-hand-and-classic-looks-from-pre-war-era/photos/1155576/

It was a trick question!

[AzCal Retred]

You can always DIY if RE is taking too long...

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/two-wheelers/in-pics-custom-himalayan-822-from-india-bike-week-is-an-adventurous-beast-41670051989998.html

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/auto/bikes/worlds-only-822cc-royal-enfield-himalayan-to-unveil-at-india-bike-week-2022/articleshow/95818733.cms

https://www.livemint.com/auto-news/custom-royal-enfield-himalayan-822-showcased-at-ibw-2022-all-details-11670153643214.html