Author Topic: Mahindra & Mahindra To Revive BSA (Read 25578 times)

singhg5 · **on:** October 25, 2016, 08:38:10 am

Mahindra & Mahindra an Indian automobile manufacturing company known for its tractors and Jeep-style vehicles and more recently of its two wheel venture has bought the well known English brand BSA. It intends to develop and revive the brand ! The race is on for RE

.

http://auto.ndtv.com/news/why-mahindra-bought-bsa-1478433?pfrom=home-auto

Otto_Ing · **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2016, 08:53:06 am

Interessting!

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2016, 01:41:04 pm

I have worked with Mahindra corporately and they are a sophisticated company, with money and they build a quality product

tooseevee · **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2016, 01:43:55 pm

Quote from: singhg5 on October 25, 2016, 08:38:10 am

Mahindra & Mahindra an Indian automobile manufacturing company known for its tractors and Jeep-style vehicles and more recently of its two wheel venture has bought the well known English brand BSA. It intends to develop and revive the brand ! The race is on for RE .

http://auto.ndtv.com/news/why-mahindra-bought-bsa-1478433?pfrom=home-auto

This isn't surprising. It's the way growth works now. My son's company (Dell Healthcare which came out of Perot Systems and Meditech) was bought by a Japanese company recently.

As we slip further down the shitter here in the land of the government controlled free market system, I wouldn't be surprised if Mahindra owns HD, GM and Ford some day. Maybe Caterpillar and John Deere, too.

Or maybe Tata will own them all. Brexit (or Greece) was nothing compared to what we're headed for here in the U.S..

Otto_Ing · **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2016, 02:03:56 pm

If they can revive the brand I am all for it, if they plan to do a chinese component mix than they can as well leave it...

Mahindra is relatively successful in moto3 (former 125cc), so they know how to make power or where to ask for it atleast. Here the pics of their racing engine.... ok, ok, it has been made in Switzerland.

Richard230 · **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2016, 02:53:54 pm

I bet there are some old BSA enthusiasts that are spinning around in their graves when they heard about this sale of their favorite brand.

ace.cafe · **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2016, 03:31:58 pm

If it will have to meet Euro 4, then it won't be recognizable as a BSA anyway. It will just be some modernized atrocity like the rest.

Narada · **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2016, 07:51:39 pm

Might be some modernized atrocity... As always, I remain optomistic.

gizzo · **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2016, 09:54:47 pm

Quote from: ace.cafe on October 25, 2016, 03:31:58 pm

If it will have to meet Euro 4, then it won't be recognizable as a BSA anyway. It will just be some modernized atrocity like the rest.

What he said. The only good revived brands I can think of are RE (which never went away) and triumph because they took care to keep some kind of continuity at least being built in the UK (to start wjth). And Norton I guess. Benelli, matchless, brough, ajs and all those other revived brands I think they're bust a product, with a name to hang on them. I don't think if the triumph (car) brand was bought and produced by a Chinese or Indian company that car enthusiasts would be so easily fooled as bike riders seem to be. A mahindra is still a mahindra , whether or not it wears a BSA badge. Get your own heritage I say.

The Old Coot · **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2016, 10:35:15 pm

What a Euro 4 motorcycle will look like when they get their way.

Yes the only color will the White Bread as well.

Richard230 · **Reply #10 on:** October 25, 2016, 10:54:52 pm

Mahindra has a nice web site that includes photos of some happy executives: http://www.mahindra.com/

Otto_Ing · **Reply #11 on:** October 26, 2016, 01:38:41 pm

Quote from: The Old Coot on October 25, 2016, 10:35:15 pm

What a Euro 4 motorcycle will look like when they get their way.

Yes the only color will the White Bread as well.

And what 2030 motorcycles and cars look like when the combustion engine is outlawed in all countries which subsribe to the co2 religion.

Le Mans 24 Hours Race is corrupted already as well.... notice some of the 2030 designs do not even have a driver compartment. What is this all going to be about???

http://www.michelinchallengedesign.com/news/michelin-announces-winners-of-le-mans-2030-global-design-competition/

ace.cafe · **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2016, 02:21:24 pm

This incessant control freak behavior reminds me of something a couple hundred years ago when a famous elite said, "Let them eat cake".
Since the elites refused to learn from history, it appears they will be repeating it.

For people who like to think of themselves as smart, they sure are stupid.

Richard230 · **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2016, 02:45:27 pm

Quote from: ace.cafe on October 26, 2016, 02:21:24 pm

This incessant control freak behavior reminds me of something a couple hundred years ago when a famous elite said, "Let them eat cake".
Since the elites refused to learn from history, it appears they will be repeating it.

For people who like to think of themselves as smart, they sure are stupid.

Do they even teach history in school any more? I can't recall my granddaughters taking a history class in high school and the one that has just entered UCLA is apparently required to take a class on alternate lifestyles (which appears to cover a lot of subjects that would be very odd to me.

). But history, at least the European version that we all learned in school, doesn't seem to be a general education requirement there either.

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2016, 10:38:05 pm

If you read deeper Mahindra is also reviving the Jawa brand. Apparently it is a marketing/manufacturing deal.

I guess from where I sit I think it will be good for some others to try and eat RE's lunch. Not that I wish RE ill, it is just that it might light a fire with quality improvement. Competition will do that.

I would prefer to see BSA made in India rather than stagnate elsewhere like it has been for decades. As someone mentioned we are screwed in this country already with trade policy so why not?

1 Thump · **Reply #15 on:** October 26, 2016, 11:40:33 pm

Quote from: ace.cafe on October 25, 2016, 03:31:58 pm

If it will have to meet Euro 4, then it won't be recognizable as a BSA anyway. It will just be some modernized atrocity like the rest.

I do like the look of an air cooled motor, but I also understand that as the absolute number of vehicles on the road grows exponentially, we have to accommodate for the amount of pollution we add to the atmosphere. Its a trade off. No?

Are you suggesting that cars and motorcycles should be allowed to continue to pollute the air we breathe?

gizzo · **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2016, 03:10:16 am

Quote from: Kevin Mahoney on October 26, 2016, 10:38:05 pm

I would prefer to see BSA made in India rather than stagnate elsewhere like it has been for decades. As someone mentioned we are screwed in this country already with trade policy so why not?

Because it's not a real BSA. It's a Mahindra cashing in on another brand's heritage. If Mahindra are that good they should be able to sell motorbikes under their own banner. IMO.

REpozer · **Reply #17 on:** October 27, 2016, 03:27:49 am

It would be nice to see if some old BSA blueprints are considered .

heloego · **Reply #18 on:** October 27, 2016, 03:59:53 am

Most of us are already riding Indian made RE's bowing to the original Redditch design(s).
I wouldn't have an issue with an Indian made BSA as long as the product bows to it's original heritage, so yes, if the old blueprints are considered, the product looks as good as our RE's, and becomes readily available in the States for just as reasonable a price I would have NO problem picking one up for my already limited stable.

ace.cafe · **Reply #19 on:** October 27, 2016, 07:20:15 am

Quote from: 1 Thump on October 26, 2016, 11:40:33 pm

I do like the look of an air cooled motor, but I also understand that as the absolute number of vehicles on the road grows exponentially, we have to accommodate for the amount of pollution we add to the atmosphere. Its a trade off. No?

Are you suggesting that cars and motorcycles should be allowed to continue to pollute the air we breathe?

It's a loaded question, but to answer it exactly as it is worded, the answer would have to be, "Yes".
The specific implication of the word "allowed" being the primary objection.

gizzo · **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2016, 07:29:55 am

Bangladeshi Small Arms company doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

Otto_Ing · **Reply #21 on:** October 27, 2016, 09:11:34 am

Quote from: 1 Thump on October 26, 2016, 11:40:33 pm

I do like the look of an air cooled motor, but I also understand that as the absolute number of vehicles on the road grows exponentially, we have to accommodate for the amount of pollution we add to the atmosphere. Its a trade off. No?

Are you suggesting that cars and motorcycles should be allowed to continue to pollute the air we breathe?

The absolute number of "on road" vehicles is pretty stagnant in the EU. The biggest killer accordingly to the EU polititians is NOx (diesel engines are harder to control for NOx). NOx is supposedly causing breathing issues and is responsible for 10.000 deaths, says the European Comission. How did they come up with this number? Which regions are impacted? Where are the people who are suffering NOx poisoning? No mention of anything like that, one can only come to the conclusion that they have sucked this number out of their finger. This "suck out of the finger" theory is beeing validated daily by the german traffic minister who recently invented a "conformity" factor which is to be applied on the measurements of NOx emissions. This is nothing else than a rigging factor which turns him into a GOD over the vehicle fleet and gives him the power to decide which vehicles are conform and which not. Recently he adjusted the factor to 3 = 3 times the legally permitted NOx value is now concidered to be conform. This effectively turned all german manufactured vehicles into conform vehicles.

The other CO2 is even worse. Outlawing CO2 emissions is equivalent to outlawing life. It is purely based on the global warming theory where a bunch of so called scientists calculate the weather and climate in as distant future as 100 years from today. Excuse me, but I've been working with the best of best calculation engineers who calculate for example vibrations in dynamic systems and these calculations are totally primitive compared to the forcasting of weather 100 years from now. The results are sometimes shocking, it's just impossible to calculate some things of a certain complexity. This is because with rising complexity level you are moving more and more in the teritorry of chaos theory -> a butterfly in Europe causing a tornado in the US. Should we kill all butterflies now? Up till date, a practical test and measurement of the eigenmodes and careful observation of reality has "ALLWAYS" delivered faster and better result. If following these calculations one must wonder if the wheel is going to stop functioning as well soon.

Anyway, none of this is going to ever help the places like Shanghai or Bombai which suffer from smogg caused by their inefficient hystorical industry plants out of which most are surviving only on goverment subsidies. Why not letting market work? Ya, that no dictator can want.

Narada · **Reply #22 on:** October 27, 2016, 07:14:09 pm

Bangladesh is no longer India... maybe "Bengali Small Arms"

Otto_Ing · **Reply #23 on:** October 27, 2016, 08:49:00 pm

If Mahindra pics BSA, Jawa up as an investor why not? I don't see a problem in it, they can develop and manufacture these bikes in their origin countries as well. I bet they would find lot's of enthusiastic young engineers and mechanics willing to build upon their heritage. If someone only were to deal with those furiously raging regulators.

Narada · **Reply #24 on:** October 27, 2016, 10:41:12 pm

Manufacturing with humane pay and benfits? That would be great, it may not happen, but it could. I hope your right.

Scotty Brown · **Reply #25 on:** October 28, 2016, 12:10:07 am

BSA - Depending on the day. "Best sumbitch around"---Or --"Bastard stopped again" -- I have experienced both of those days -- Would like to see them come back under Mahindra.

heloego · **Reply #26 on:** October 28, 2016, 03:21:23 am

From oTTo: "The other CO2 is even worse. Outlawing CO2 emissions is equivalent to outlawing life. It is purely based on the global warming theory where a bunch of so called scientists calculate the weather and climate in as distant future as 100 years from today. Excuse me, but I've been working with the best of best calculation engineers who calculate for example vibrations in dynamic systems and these calculations are totally primitive compared to the forcasting of weather 100 years from now. The results are sometimes shocking, it's just impossible to calculate some things of a certain complexity. This is because with rising complexity level you are moving more and more in the teritorry of chaos theory -> a butterfly in Europe causing a tornado in the US. Should we kill all butterflies now? Up till date, a practical test and measurement of the eigenmodes and careful observation of reality has "ALLWAYS" delivered faster and better result. If following these calculations one must wonder if the wheel is going to stop functioning as well soon."

Ya gotta wonder just how anyone can predict what the weather will be like 100 years from now.

Hell, nobody can accurately predict tomorrows weather much less the next century's.
We're currently in a warming trend between ice ages according to Neil Degrasse Tyson, and he does not use junk science.

Otto_Ing · **Reply #27 on:** October 28, 2016, 07:46:23 am

Quote from: Narada on October 27, 2016, 10:41:12 pm

Manufacturing with humane pay and benfits? That would be great, it may not happen, but it could. I hope your right.

Manufacturing has not been exactly inhuman just couple of decades back until the corrupteers and bean counters took over and ruined everything. Remember the guy Ford? He knew that if he pays s"#¤ nobody is going to be able to buy his s"#¤.

1 Thump · **Reply #28 on:** October 28, 2016, 10:19:49 pm

Quote from: oTTo on October 27, 2016, 09:11:34 am

The absolute number of "on road" vehicles is pretty stagnant in the EU. The biggest killer accordingly to the EU polititians is NOx (diesel engines are harder to control for NOx). NOx is supposedly causing breathing issues and is responsible for 10.000 deaths, says the European Comission. How did they come up with this number? Which regions are impacted? Where are the people who are suffering NOx poisoning? No mention of anything like that, one can only come to the conclusion that they have sucked this number out of their finger. This "suck out of the finger" theory is beeing validated daily by the german traffic minister who recently invented a "conformity" factor which is to be applied on the measurements of NOx emissions. This is nothing else than a rigging factor which turns him into a GOD over the vehicle fleet and gives him the power to decide which vehicles are conform and which not. Recently he adjusted the factor to 3 = 3 times the legally permitted NOx value is now concidered to be conform. This effectively turned all german manufactured vehicles into conform vehicles.

The other CO2 is even worse. Outlawing CO2 emissions is equivalent to outlawing life. It is purely based on the global warming theory where a bunch of so called scientists calculate the weather and climate in as distant future as 100 years from today. Excuse me, but I've been working with the best of best calculation engineers who calculate for example vibrations in dynamic systems and these calculations are totally primitive compared to the forcasting of weather 100 years from now. The results are sometimes shocking, it's just impossible to calculate some things of a certain complexity. This is because with rising complexity level you are moving more and more in the teritorry of chaos theory -> a butterfly in Europe causing a tornado in the US. Should we kill all butterflies now? Up till date, a practical test and measurement of the eigenmodes and careful observation of reality has "ALLWAYS" delivered faster and better result. If following these calculations one must wonder if the wheel is going to stop functioning as well soon.

Anyway, none of this is going to ever help the places like Shanghai or Bombai which suffer from smogg caused by their inefficient hystorical industry plants out of which most are surviving only on goverment subsidies. Why not letting market work? Ya, that no dictator can want.

Otto: Water cooled motors are more efficient, consume less fuel, and cause less pollution. We have to conserve petroleum for the coming generations. The absolute number of vehicles IS climbing. Thankfully they are less polluting that before, and use less fuel per mile.

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle

Climate change is a different story.

The Old Coot · **Reply #29 on:** October 28, 2016, 10:44:57 pm

Quote from: oTTo on October 28, 2016, 07:46:23 am

Manufacturing has not been exactly inhuman just couple of decades back until the corrupteers and bean counters took over and ruined everything. Remember the guy Ford? He knew that if he pays s"#¤ nobody is going to be able to buy his s"#¤.

I wonder what the bean counter are thinking with all the robots they want to buy to do all the work so that the big company's can make even more profits. If it happen then who will be able to buy anything from them? The robots? I don't think they've thought it through at all. And it'd be just a matter of time until the robots decide to replace the bean counters right. Maybe one day a Royal Enfield Bullet will buy YOU!

"Yea it's slow and beat up but I kinda like it"

tooseevee · **Reply #30 on:** October 28, 2016, 11:03:05 pm

Quote from: The Old Coot on October 28, 2016, 10:44:57 pm

I wonder what the bean counter are thinking with all the robots they want to buy to do all the work so that the big company's can make even more profits. If it happen then who will be able to buy anything from them? The robots? I don't think they've thought it through at all. And it'd be just a matter of time until the robots decide to replace the bean counters right. Maybe one day a Royal Enfield Bullet will buy YOU! "Yea it's slow and beat up but I kinda like it"

Do robots dream of electric Teslas ?

1 Thump · **Reply #31 on:** October 29, 2016, 12:39:08 am

Quote from: tooseevee on October 28, 2016, 11:03:05 pm

Do robots dream of electric Teslas ?

Don't know. But I can tell you I do. Anyone who has driven it possibly does. Go take a test ride. You will dream too.

GSS · **Reply #32 on:** October 29, 2016, 01:31:14 am

I had a Jawa once....amazingly reliable 2 stroke street bike. Single lever served as a kick starter and gear shift lever....it even had a very slick notch on the inside of the shifter rod that would declutch so that you could change gears without having to pull on the clutch lever

It will be great to have BSA and Jawa back.....much preferred over plastic crotch rockets

The Old Coot · **Reply #33 on:** October 29, 2016, 01:35:39 am

Quote from: GSS on October 29, 2016, 01:31:14 am

.much preferred over plastic crotch rockets

I agree, drop your brand new $8,000-$30,000 plastic super bike at a stand still and you'll be shelling out big cash to replace that plastic. Simple is better.

Farmer_John · **Reply #34 on:** October 29, 2016, 03:57:02 am

So Mahindra is going to be making some bikes? Cool!

Otto_Ing · **Reply #35 on:** October 29, 2016, 08:52:03 am

Quote from: 1 Thump on October 28, 2016, 10:19:49 pm

Otto: Water cooled motors are more efficient, consume less fuel, and cause less pollution. We have to conserve petroleum for the coming generations. The absolute number of vehicles IS climbing. Thankfully they are less polluting that before, and use less fuel per mile.

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle

Climate change is a different story.

Agreed, however look at the vehicle numbers per county. The growth is happening in countries which don't have EURO4, India, China, South America and Russia. Europe and US are pretty stagnant some declining.

Water cooled Engine sure can reach higher peak numbers in power because more power means more heat and water cooling can transport the heat out of the engine at a higher rate. Efficiency however is about the % of fuel turned into kinetic energy. I don't see why a air cooled engine shoud be inefficient. I'am almost certain that the high reving screemer engines are less efficient than the enfield because of higher mechanical losses. I do work with a company which makes at pressent the most efficient diesel engines in the world, the strategy was always to keep the revs low and increase torque as much as possible to generate power. The other way round is easy to get power but efficiency suffers. Lower engine revs means as well lower transmission losses.

Guaire · **Reply #36 on:** October 29, 2016, 12:15:23 pm

Quote from: 1 Thump on October 28, 2016, 10:19:49 pm

Otto: Water cooled motors are more efficient, consume less fuel, and cause less pollution. We have to conserve petroleum for the coming generations. The absolute number of vehicles IS climbing. Thankfully they are less polluting that before, and use less fuel per mile.

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle

Climate change is a different story.

No we don't have conserve oil. Oil is the blood of the Earth. Oil is produced naturally. Man is not the god/creator/destroyer of petroleum.

1 Thump · **Reply #37 on:** October 29, 2016, 07:34:30 pm

Quote from: oTTo on October 29, 2016, 08:52:03 am

Agreed, however look at the vehicle numbers per county. The growth is happening in countries which don't have EURO4, India, China, South America and Russia. Europe and US are pretty stagnant some declining.

Water cooled Engine sure can reach higher peak numbers in power because more power means more heat and water cooling can transport the heat out of the engine at a higher rate. Efficiency however is about the % of fuel turned into kinetic energy. I don't see why a air cooled engine shoud be inefficient. I'am almost certain that the high reving screemer engines are less efficient than the enfield because of higher mechanical losses. I do work with a company which makes at pressent the most efficient diesel engines in the world, the strategy was always to keep the revs low and increase torque as much as possible to generate power. The other way round is easy to get power but efficiency suffers. Lower engine revs means as well lower transmission losses.

The number of automobiles/1000 population has gone up in all parts of the world except eastern Europe. Since the population also continues to climb the absolute numbers of vehicles, on-road or not, also increase proportionally. Thats a double whammy.

Since we can not control the number of vehicles produced/sold/used it would make sense to encourage tech that reduces tailpipe emissions per vehicle . If measures like a catalytic convertor, water cooling etc. actually do that, and how much, is worthy of a discussion.

Richard230 · **Reply #38 on:** October 29, 2016, 11:44:05 pm

If you live in Germany, and likely the rest of the EU, you won't have to worry about this kind of stuff once internal-combustion engine-powered vehicles are outlawed for sale in 2030.

Better stock up on lithium batteries now.

Otto_Ing · **Reply #39 on:** October 30, 2016, 07:45:17 pm

Quote from: 1 Thump on October 29, 2016, 07:34:30 pm

The number of automobiles/1000 population has gone up in all parts of the world except eastern Europe. Since the population also continues to climb the absolute numbers of vehicles, on-road or not, also increase proportionally. Thats a double whammy.

Since we can not control the number of vehicles produced/sold/used it would make sense to encourage tech that reduces tailpipe emissions per vehicle . If measures like a catalytic convertor, water cooling etc. actually do that, and how much, is worthy of a discussion.

Ok, the table on WiKi compares 1999 with 2009. I can say for fact that the order of lorries went approx. to half in 2009/2010 and have not recovered fully to the peak of 2009 yet. I do not have the figures of what happened to with passenger car sales and maybe they have managed to pump with some financing schemes more vehicles in the market but I do really not see much of sustainable growth in the EU. Possibly the reason why they want to outlaw petrol & diesel cars now asap and keep the wheel spinning.

I know that more and more people in the car industry are looking at the whole life cycle of the vehicle from manufacturing, utilization till scrapping and recycling. This has been initiated by the arrival of the EV's and I think it a partially positive development and will hopefully lead to apple to apple comparison between the EV's and comb. engine vehicles.

malky · **Reply #40 on:** October 31, 2016, 07:36:56 am

B.S.A. stands for "Birmingham Small Arms Company."

Now,here's a bit of useful European law.

Stornoway black pudding is one of Scotland’s best known culinary treasures, ranked alongside haggis and shortbread.
But food producers have cashed in on its reputation by labelling products Stornoway black pudding, even when they are not made on the Isle of Lewis.
The European Commission has now awarded the pudding Protected Geographical Indication.
It also joins Arbroath smokies, Parma ham and Melton Mowbray pork pies on the European list of Protected Food Names.
It means the delicacy – made from cow’s blood, onions, suet, oatmeal and spices – can only be called Stornoway Black Pudding if it is produced in the parish of Stornoway on Lewis.

So I think a similar law should be used regarding the use of the BSA name, unless it is produced in Birmingham England UK.

solg · **Reply #41 on:** October 31, 2016, 11:06:09 pm

So I think a similar law should be used regarding the use of the BSA name, unless it is produced in Birmingham England UK.

[/quote]
If that were the case then BMW would have a problem. I believe they are being made all over the place. Munich Germany,South Africa, even in the good ole USA. I think if an entity buys the rights to a name they also buy the right to use it. And then there's Subway a sandwich shop that sells a "foot long" sandwich that is only 11" . I buy "Cojonú 2009"cigars that are rolled in 2012. The names cannot always be taken literally. Sometimes the names reflect the finished product. Sometimes it's just clever marketing.

The Old Coot · **Reply #42 on:** October 31, 2016, 11:13:35 pm

Well Malky I guess you'll be selling your "Fake" Royal Enfield then. Or should we call it a "Royal Curryfield"

And Solg they build BMWs in China now as well. Jeeps are from Canada and the Boeing 787? it's bits are made all over the place and stuck together in the Boeing plant the the States.

Richard230 · **Reply #43 on:** November 01, 2016, 12:30:38 am

Did somebody mention BMW?

https://thenewswheel.com/bmw-plant-in-brazil-starts-motorcycle-production/

solg · **Reply #44 on:** November 01, 2016, 12:46:40 am

If they've been building Enfields in India since 1955. I think they have earned some props.Nothing fake about that.

malky · **Reply #45 on:** November 01, 2016, 07:37:04 am

Quote from: The Old Coot on October 31, 2016, 11:13:35 pm

Well Malky I guess you'll be selling your "Fake" Royal Enfield then. Or should we call it a "Royal Curryfield"

And Solg they build BMWs in China now as well. Jeeps are from Canada and the Boeing 787? it's bits are made all over the place and stuck together in the Boeing plant the the States.

Remember Coot "Great" Britain used to specialize in invading other people's countries and nicking their stuff. And Enfield has the Royal seal of approval. It also proves that a British motorcycle industry could have been sustained. Purely as a joke, two of my previous Enfields were badged Rough Inferior, in the style of the old Brough Logo because I got fed up of being told how bad they were.

gizzo · **Reply #46 on:** November 01, 2016, 11:42:30 am

Quote from: The Old Coot on October 31, 2016, 11:13:35 pm

Well Malky I guess you'll be selling your "Fake" Royal Enfield then. Or should we call it a "Royal Curryfield"

And Solg they build BMWs in China now as well. Jeeps are from Canada and the Boeing 787? it's bits are made all over the place and stuck together in the Boeing plant the the States.

Enfield in India has a direct link with the original company so they're the real thing. BMWs made outside of Germany are still made by the same company. Likewise Triumph, KTM, Honda, VW, Nestle and all the rest. Same company, different location. Mahindra Buying a defunct brand is different. If a brand like Rolls Royce went down and sold the brand (not the business), would people accept a RR branded Chery J3 ? I don't think so.
Anyway, Mahindra can do what they like. I won't be buying one anyway.

ace.cafe · **Reply #47 on:** November 01, 2016, 01:26:14 pm

They make a pretty good tractor.

Anyway, if they make an awesome new Gold Star 500, I would be all for it. Not holding my breath for it, though.

Most people want a riding appliance nowadays anyway. That's what most companies are building. I'm pretty sure that if most companies came on here trying to listen to us, they wouldn't even know what we are talking about.

Adrian II · **Reply #48 on:** November 01, 2016, 03:00:13 pm

If they can get anything half decent through the emissions laws, that will be something of an achievement. But NO modern maufacturer will want to revive a 60 year-old vehicle design in anywhere near its original form for the mass market.

RE India were different in that they perpetuated on old design which had never gone out of production, and kept it going as long as possible-almost.

As a bit of an aside, killing off the pre-UCE Bullet was perhaps premature. Certainly the AVL models could have made the jump to fuel injection quite easily. Now if the factory had done that and improved the AVL engine styling along the way (bigger fins, smoother timing cover) we could have had bikes more obviously in the classic Bullet tradition than the present UCE offerings. I suspect that even the C.I. Bullets could have made the transition with improved engine internals, alloy cylinders and a modified combustion chamber design, think of B.W.'s squish banded heads.)

A.

ace.cafe · **Reply #49 on:** November 01, 2016, 04:21:35 pm

The Ace Billet GT Head will fit the AVL and Bullet with a few small mods.

Just another option.

malky · **Reply #50 on:** November 01, 2016, 07:07:49 pm

Quote from: ace.cafe on November 01, 2016, 04:21:35 pm

The Ace Billet GT Head will fit the AVL and Bullet with a few small mods.

Just another option.

There are a lot of attractive options available, both from yourself and the site host. Only problem is the £/$ exchange rate is the worst in my living memory, and then "we" get cuffed for a further 20% + other costs once the goods arrive in the U.K.

In November 2015, goods to the value of $500 excluding postal charges. Once in the U.K. with 20% tax added would be £399.

The same $500 today would equate to £490. Add postal charges and other "import fees" and it becomes silly.

Otto_Ing · **Reply #51 on:** November 01, 2016, 08:26:53 pm

US$ rose against all currencies. Maybe slightly more so against the £ than the €. Cash is tight as hell now in every country I have contact in, difficult to invest in such a uncertain environment and with the regulators coming up with impossible rules and a bleak outlook. Than we have to keep saving insolvent financial institutions, on top of that the Germans are scared of inflation as hell, so Merkel came up with the idea that more whipping and less bread in Europe is required which seams to be a very effective policy.

The Old Coot · **Reply #52 on:** November 01, 2016, 09:10:05 pm

Quote from: oTTo on November 01, 2016, 08:26:53 pm

US$ rose against all currencies. Maybe slightly more so against the £ than the €. Cash is tight as hell now in every country I have contact in, difficult to invest in such a uncertain environment and with the regulators coming up with impossible rules and a bleak outlook. Than we have to keep saving insolvent financial institutions, on top of that the Germans are scared of inflation as hell, so Merkel came up with the idea that more whipping and less bread in Europe is required which seams to be a very effective policy.

Same old story

And the rich get richer while everyone else gets poorer.

Farmer_John · **Reply #53 on:** November 04, 2016, 04:16:19 pm

Just tossing this into the mix...

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2016/november/new-bsa-boss-we-want-to-build-bikes-in-the-uk

Otto_Ing · **Reply #54 on:** November 04, 2016, 05:15:16 pm

I am taking the risk of sounding like a dick head now.

I am pretty confident that my GT with the ACE head + ACE magnum cams will beat any twin, RE may come up with. BSA single Mahindra comes up with too.

Farmer_John · **Reply #55 on:** November 04, 2016, 07:48:10 pm

Quote from: oTTo on November 04, 2016, 05:15:16 pm

I am taking the risk of sounding like a dick head now. I am pretty confident that my GT with the ACE head + ACE magnum cams will beat any twin, RE may come up with. BSA single Mahindra comes up with too.

Why's it gotta be a contest?

Otto_Ing · **Reply #56 on:** November 04, 2016, 08:01:15 pm

Quote from: Farmer_John on November 04, 2016, 07:48:10 pm

Why's it gotta be a contest?

No contest, just a statement. What I mean is basically motherships are subject to crap which a individual can avoid, thank god.

ace.cafe · **Reply #57 on:** November 04, 2016, 09:04:10 pm

If there is any way that I can do it, I will do it. My aim is for the 535 to beat the upcoming RE twin.

The Old Coot · **Reply #58 on:** November 04, 2016, 09:29:12 pm

Quote from: ace.cafe on November 04, 2016, 09:04:10 pm

If there is any way that I can do it, I will do it. My aim is for the 535 to beat the upcoming RE twin.

I don't know...maybe a 750 (775?) Fireball would be a nice addition to you line up?

Farmer_John · **Reply #59 on:** November 05, 2016, 02:21:49 am

Quote from: ace.cafe on November 04, 2016, 09:04:10 pm

If there is any way that I can do it, I will do it. My aim is for the 535 to beat the upcoming RE twin.

But Tom, doesn't there come a time when the investment for more exceed both the return of investment and reliability?

ace.cafe · **Reply #60 on:** November 05, 2016, 11:51:18 am

Quote from: Farmer_John on November 05, 2016, 02:21:49 am

But Tom, doesn't there come a time when the investment for more exceed both the return of investment and reliability?

For some, it might.
Reliability need not be compromised. The iron barrel Fireball is comparable in road performance to the vintage 650-750 British twins, and is very reliable.

The new twin is going to be heavy. No getting around it. And it will also cost more money. A used 535 GT and my mods will be in the running vs it for cost, and the single is lighter and nimbler.

Regarding modding the twin, I will see about it when the time comes. My current feeling about it is that there are already so few UCE owners wanting to mod a bike that desperately needs it, I am not optimistic that many will want to mod a twin that doesn't need it so badly. We'll see.

Regarding return on investment, if you think it's expensive to buy these heads, you should see how much it costs to develop them for a very small market without much hope of breaking even. If the market isn't receptive, I will probably just hang up the gloves and call it a day.

Otto_Ing · **Reply #61 on:** November 05, 2016, 12:47:09 pm

If I was the Prince of Qatar and had the funds available I would build my own bike incl. own engine. I've been asked by a friend why I bought a RE and modding it to good performance when I could have bought a bike ready which performs better. My answer was 'because I can'. The bird flies, fish swims, man makes bikes and rides. And than there are people who can't much of anything so they are inventing schemes how to deprive you of it....so is life.

Richard230 · **Reply #62 on:** November 05, 2016, 01:50:39 pm

Quote from: oTTo on November 05, 2016, 12:47:09 pm

If I was the Prince of Qatar and had the funds available I would build my own bike incl. own engine. I've been asked by a friend why I bought a RE and modding it to good performance when I could have bought a bike ready which performs better. My answer was 'because I can'. The bird flies, fish swims, man makes bikes and rides. And than there are people who can't much of anything so they are inventing schemes how to deprive you of it....so is life.

The motorcycle and car tinkers are slowly (like General Douglas MacArthur) fading away and dying off. Between bureaucratic regulations prohibiting just about any vehicle modification and the current trend of making everything electrically connected with Can'tBust so that if you change even one part nothing works, messing with new motorcycles is becoming a less popular pastime. Plus, most youngsters don't want to leave the confines of their parents home and their computer keyboard to get their hands dirty. After all, if they left home who would feed them, do their laundry and keep the power on to charge their laptops and smart phones?

I know that both of my granddaughters, who are now old enough to drive, don't want to and didn't even try to get a drivers license. All they have is a state ID card that allows them to vote (and what they don't realize also makes them eligible for jury duty) - if they can tear themselves away from social media.

Otto_Ing · **Reply #63 on:** November 05, 2016, 02:37:00 pm

We shall see, I would say the world of total control hit the brick wall. We have more and more companies that sell merely hot air. The engineers without practical experience which are comming out of the universities are less and less capable of maintaining the status quo. I expect the future to be different than the usual popular projections.

Farmer_John · **Reply #64 on:** November 05, 2016, 02:45:27 pm

So Mahindra is going to build some BSAs?

The Old Coot · **Reply #65 on:** November 05, 2016, 03:17:14 pm

Quote from: Farmer_John on November 05, 2016, 02:45:27 pm

So Mahindra is going to build some BSAs?

Well, that's the rumor anyway.

mevocgt · **Reply #66 on:** November 05, 2016, 03:22:48 pm

Ya, that's what I heard...

Otto_Ing · **Reply #67 on:** November 05, 2016, 03:28:38 pm

Quote from: Farmer_John on November 05, 2016, 02:45:27 pm

So Mahindra is going to build some BSAs?

Well I can't build one, my money is with the government. They are investing it wisely for me into gender studies for example.

Farmer_John · **Reply #68 on:** November 05, 2016, 03:29:38 pm

Quote from: mevocgt on November 05, 2016, 03:22:48 pm

Ya, that's what I heard...

Quote

Well, that's the rumor anyway.

Cool. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with.

Narada · **Reply #69 on:** November 05, 2016, 04:30:48 pm

As long as we're not being dickheads,

let's also not forget the GHG/SB dome top high compresssion piston with ported stock head and re-worked valve train.

Ace himself once commented to me on a thread that he felt my bike may very well beat a stock RE twin when they come out.

I would still like a new twin. Can't wait to see the whole package. The new BSA could be a nice bike too, if you can accept the modern engineering.

Otto_Ing · **Reply #70 on:** November 05, 2016, 04:48:46 pm

Quote from: Narada on November 05, 2016, 04:30:48 pm

I would still like a new twin. Can't wait to see the whole package. The new BSA could be a nice bike too, if you can accept the modern engineering.

Not much has changend fundamentally in mechanical engineering. The various prototyping methodes merely allow you to come to a solution more quicker. So let's see, what design they come up with.

Farmer_John · **Reply #71 on:** November 23, 2016, 10:51:53 am

If the end result is anything close to this rendering...

Otto_Ing · **Reply #72 on:** November 23, 2016, 11:00:04 am

Quote from: Farmer_John on November 23, 2016, 10:51:53 am

If the end result is anything close to this rendering...

Here a new article to it. I doubt though that anyone knows how that BSA is going to look yet.

http://zeenews.india.com/automobile/mahindras-new-bsa-bikes-to-get-500-750cc-engines_1952249.html

Revealing the facts to MCN at Mahindra’s London offices, Rajesh Jejurikar, president and CEO of Mahindra Two Wheelers, said, “We want to bring back the aura of BSA, while also bringing back a commitment to honest engineering. To achieve this we have Classic Legends, which will allow us to move into the premium and niche segments.”

...bring back honest engineering? ...sound like clutching at straws to me.

Farmer_John · **Reply #73 on:** November 23, 2016, 04:30:05 pm

Quote from: oTTo on November 23, 2016, 11:00:04 am

Here a new article to it. I doubt though that anyone knows how that BSA is going to look yet.

http://zeenews.india.com/automobile/mahindras-new-bsa-bikes-to-get-500-750cc-engines_1952249.html

Revealing the facts to MCN at Mahindra’s London offices, Rajesh Jejurikar, president and CEO of Mahindra Two Wheelers, said, “We want to bring back the aura of BSA, while also bringing back a commitment to honest engineering. To achieve this we have Classic Legends, which will allow us to move into the premium and niche segments.”

...bring back honest engineering? ...sound like clutching at straws to me.

It pretty much echoes the journalistic styles of the Indian press, which the more I read, the more I think they just like reading their own words.

AzCal Retred · **Reply #74 on:** June 09, 2024, 06:07:07 pm

For R230 @ #62: A ray of hope?

Adults and teens turn to 'dumbphones' to cut screen time
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7227njm45eo

" I know that both of my granddaughters, who are now old enough to drive, don't want to and didn't even try to get a drivers license. All they have is a state ID card that allows them to vote (and what they don't realize also makes them eligible for jury duty) - if they can tear themselves away from social media.

"

GlennF · **Reply #75 on:** June 10, 2024, 12:28:37 am

This is a 2016 thread from 8 years ago.

AzCal Retred · **Reply #76 on:** June 10, 2024, 01:30:06 am

Sure is. R230 was worrying about his daughters cell phone usage. Seems like we now might be turning a corner on that. Probably should have started a new topic.

Richard230 · **Reply #77 on:** June 10, 2024, 01:37:28 am

Quote from: AzCal Retred on June 10, 2024, 01:30:06 am

Sure is. R230 was worrying about his daughters cell phone usage. Seems like we now might be turning a corner on that. Probably should have started a new topic.

Nothing has changed much since then, other than there have been more stories and warnings about young people getting lost in their cell phones and social media. I wonder if they will look up in November long enough to vote?

GlennF · **Reply #78 on:** June 10, 2024, 08:09:44 am

Quote from: Richard230 on June 10, 2024, 01:37:28 am

Nothing has changed much since then, other than there have been more stories and warnings about young people getting lost in their cell phones and social media. I wonder if they will look up in November long enough to vote?

Vote by phone with a biometric ID will eventually be a thing. Not sure it is a good idea though.

AzCal Retred · **Reply #79 on:** June 10, 2024, 02:39:36 pm

GF - we already are living in the future! Looks like the Electoral College Buggy Whip Factory is rather pointless if you can tabulate 340,000,000 votes in real time. Besides West Virginia, Hawaii, Idaho, Louisiana, Utah & District of Columbia seem to be all in. Let the Robots decide I say!

"Almost heaven, West Virginia, Blue Ridge mountains, Shenandoah river...." and e-voting too.
https://mobilevoting.org/how-mobile-voting-works/

https://www.eballot.com/blog/these-states-allow-online-voting-for-their-citizens-is-your-state-one-of-them

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