[Roshiba777]

If we go one teeth down on front sprocket does it increase the initial pull what effect does it have on topend

[Starpeve]

If we go one teeth down on front sprocket does it increase the initial pull what effect does it have on topend

Revs out quicker and reduces top speed ( in theory)

[Roshiba777]

Revs out quicker and reduces top speed ( in theory)

Thanks

[Jako]

If we go one teeth down on front sprocket does it increase the initial pull what effect does it have on topend

Often on low powered bikes you will actually reach the same or even higher  top speeds as the engine will reach higher revs in the top gears with less stress. My Interceptor feels a little high in 6th   

[NVDucati]

Often on low powered bikes you will actually reach the same or even higher  top speeds as the engine will reach higher revs in the top gears with less stress. My Interceptor feels a little high in 6th   

@Jako has it right.
Think of the two sprockets in combination as a lever (final gear ratio).
You have an object to lift. The weight of the bike an you, wind resistance, and inertia, etc..
You take your fulcrum and that lever which can be longer or shorter (final gear ratio).
You have time (speed).
You have power (your personal strength).
At some point you find your self just hanging off the end of the longest lever. (Archimedes Greek Mythology)
In between the lever lengths you choose there is a sweet spot of work being done and the pace at which your arms are moving.

[twocoolgliders]

Top gear on most recreational motorcycles is not meant to be the "fastest" gear.  Top gear is typically a "cruising" gear....where you maintain a relatively high speed, for long periods.  The RPM in this configuration is relatively low.  This gives smooth, quiet running and good fuel economy.....


The fastest possible gear would be where the motor would reach the max horsepower rpm...and hit the "drag wall" at the exact same time.  If you "streamlined" the motorcycle, then drag would be less..an you would need a slightly higher gear.   If you modified the engine for more power, you would then also need a slightly higher gear, or if you modified the engine to make more power at higher rpm  you might not need a higher gear....

The  gearing on street bikes is designed to be "all around"...that is, good for all occasions and not exceptional at any.

Re-gearing a street bike is a fool's game.....you may improve one area, but you will certainly degrade another...everything is a trade off.

Some like a lower first gear for better "jack rabbit starts".....but come on....do you really do a max hole shot every time you ride, at every red light, and every stop sign?  I true hole shot start would require revving up to redline anyway...not practical....the additional down side to lower ratios is that the cruise performance at ahiger speed...the engine is revving high...noisy vibration, poor fuel economy...

Some like higher overall gear ratio...for long, high speed cruising...to run at lower rpm....smoother, quieter, better fuel economy. Downside is sluggish starts.....

Contrary to common belief......the middle gears don't matter....an argument for another time....

Do what you want.....have fun...


Cookie

@Jako has it right.
Think of the two sprockets in combination as a lever (final gear ratio).
You have an object to lift. The weight of the bike an you, wind resistance, and inertia, etc..
You take your fulcrum and that lever which can be longer or shorter (final gear ratio).
You have time (speed).
You have power (your personal strength).
At some point you find your self just hanging off the end of the longest lever. (Archimedes Greek Mythology)
In between the lever lengths you choose there is a sweet spot of work being done and the pace at which your arms are moving.

[Starpeve]

Top gear on most recreational motorcycles is not meant to be the "fastest" gear.  Top gear is typically a "cruising" gear....where you maintain a relatively high speed, for long periods.  The RPM in this configuration is relatively low.  This gives smooth, quiet running and good fuel economy.....


The fastest possible gear would be where the motor would reach the max horsepower rpm...and hit the "drag wall" at the exact same time.  If you "streamlined" the motorcycle, then drag would be less..an you would need a slightly higher gear.   If you modified the engine for more power, you would then also need a slightly higher gear, or if you modified the engine to make more power at higher rpm  you might not need a higher gear....

The  gearing on street bikes is designed to be "all around"...that is, good for all occasions and not exceptional at any.

Re-gearing a street bike is a fool's game.....you may improve one area, but you will certainly degrade another...everything is a trade off.

Some like a lower first gear for better "jack rabbit starts".....but come on....do you really do a max hole shot every time you ride, at every red light, and every stop sign?  I true hole shot start would require revving up to redline anyway...not practical....the additional down side to lower ratios is that the cruise performance at ahiger speed...the engine is revving high...noisy vibration, poor fuel economy...

Some like higher overall gear ratio...for long, high speed cruising...to run at lower rpm....smoother, quieter, better fuel economy. Downside is sluggish starts.....

Contrary to common belief......the middle gears don't matter....an argument for another time....

Do what you want.....have fun...


Cookie

Sorry but my experience is different. I’ve mainly had high torque / low rev bikes.
You say that the middle gears mean little and taller gearing makes low gears sluggish. If I’m on a torquey bike that hits 4000 rpm at 40 km/h then that bike is geared too short. And it’s nonsense that the middle gears mean nothing. That’s where you’re usually humming at when you’re riding ‘ spiritedly ‘. On the GT I reckon that’s around 5000 so you’ve still got a squirt up your sleeve when you want it and the engine is working at it’s sweet spot.
This motor pulls plenty well in 2’nd from 15-25 km/h. I don’t want to be wringing my Bike’s neck in first only to change into 2’nd at 45km. And to suggest short shifting into 3’rd isn’t a solution it’s only proof of what I say.

[Starpeve]

Often on low powered bikes you will actually reach the same or even higher  top speeds as the engine will reach higher revs in the top gears with less stress. My Interceptor feels a little high in 6th   

Which is why I said’in theory’. I was simplifying.

[twocoolgliders]

There's a job opening for you in India, because you are smarter than the engineers at a 100+ year old motorcycle company!  In fact, I'm certain they purposely f-ed up the gearing on the RE! 

Sorry.... Just kidding!   Kidding!  Sometimes I just can't help myself!

Do whatever you want.....I don't care...(honestly, gearing up or down a little bit on a street bike is pretty much meaningless)



Cookie

Sorry but my experience is different. I’ve mainly had high torque / low rev bikes.
You say that the middle gears mean little and taller gearing makes low gears sluggish. If I’m on a torquey bike that hits 4000 rpm at 40 km/h then that bike is geared too short. And it’s nonsense that the middle gears mean nothing. That’s where you’re usually humming at when you’re riding ‘ spiritedly ‘. On the GT I reckon that’s around 5000 so you’ve still got a squirt up your sleeve when you want it and the engine is working at it’s sweet spot.
This motor pulls plenty well in 2’nd from 15-25 km/h. I don’t want to be wringing my Bike’s neck in first only to change into 2’nd at 45km. And to suggest short shifting into 3’rd isn’t a solution it’s only proof of what I say.

[Jako]

Which is why I said’in theory’. I was simplifying.

Yea I was agreeing  with your fine explanation    and just adding to it  for Roshiba777 ,  What I don't  agree with is someone elses  comment that  '
Re-gearing a street bike is a fool's game..' which seems to assume anybody who re-gears their bike  to suit their needs and riding terrain  is a fool .  I have been following the 500 UCE forum for the last 4 years and found everybody  so positive and encouraging  and seen so many bike issues diagnosed and sorted out  and helpfull ideas on.improvments shared for everybody's  benefit,  I have learnt so much about the 500 UCE models from that forum.  Over here on the 650 twin section it seems to be taking a different  direction.

[twocoolgliders]

But they don't re-gear "to suit their needs or terrain"...they re gear just to do it.....

They also expect re-gearing to do certain things which it cannot.

Road bikes travel over various conditions, speeds, etc...so they are geared accordingly.

Road riders typically don't extract maximum performance out of their bikes 100% of the time....

Racing is a different story....a fast track might require one set of gearing, while a twisty track requires another...but here we are looking for max speed at all times....

Hey...if you think different gears are better...go for it....nobody's stopping you.

But if you are going to tell me that different gears are "better" then you'd better be able to explain why...and yes it requires numbers and math!


Cookie

Yea I was agreeing  with your fine explanation    and just adding to it  for Roshiba777 ,  What I don't  agree with is someone elses  comment that  '
Re-gearing a street bike is a fool's game..' which seems to assume anybody who re-gears their bike  to suit their needs and riding terrain  is a fool .  I have been following the 500 UCE forum for the last 4 years and found everybody  so positive and encouraging  and seen so many bike issues diagnosed and sorted out  and helpfull ideas on.improvments shared for everybody's  benefit,  I have learnt so much about the 500 UCE models from that forum.  Over here on the 650 twin section it seems to be taking a different  direction.

[Starpeve]

There's a job opening for you in India, because you are smarter than the engineers at a 100+ year old motorcycle company!  In fact, I'm certain they purposely f-ed up the gearing on the RE! 

Sorry.... Just kidding!   Kidding!  Sometimes I just can't help myself!

Do whatever you want.....I don't care...(honestly, gearing up or down a little bit on a street bike is pretty much meaningless)



Cookie

I’m not saying they stuffed it up, it’s just that they aimed it at a general market. Mainly India, I would think. I’m surprised they didn’t gear the GT differently to the Interceptor given the apparent direction of the model . There’s no denying it’s ability to cope with it.
I certainly don’t question their engineers, they’ve done a splendid job. But I know what I like, based on 45 years of riding, and I’m merely attempting to tailor my bike to that.
We all have different requirements of our vehicles, and yours and mine appear to be at opposite ends of the spectrum 😁

[Starpeve]

But they don't re-gear "to suit their needs or terrain"...they re gear just to do it.....

They also expect re-gearing to do certain things which it cannot.

Road bikes travel over various conditions, speeds, etc...so they are geared accordingly.

Road riders typically don't extract maximum performance out of their bikes 100% of the time....

Racing is a different story....a fast track might require one set of gearing, while a twisty track requires another...but here we are looking for max speed at all times....

Hey...if you think different gears are better...go for it....nobody's stopping you.

But if you are going to tell me that different gears are "better" then you'd better be able to explain why...and yes it requires numbers and math!


Cookie

No need for numbers and maths. It’s more about how happy you are. It either alters the vehicle to your tastes/requirements or it doesn’t. Nothing wrong with tweaking. Bit like altering your suspension😁

[olhogrider]

assume anybody who re-gears their bike  to suit their needs and riding terrain  is a fool .  I have been following the 500 UCE forum for the last 4 years and found everybody  so positive and encouraging  and seen so many bike issues diagnosed and sorted out  and helpfull ideas on.improvments shared for everybody's  benefit,  I have learnt so much about the 500 UCE models from that forum.  Over here on the 650 twin section it seems to be taking a different  direction.

The 500s have so many issues built in that everyone feels compassion for their fellow sufferers. I know. I have owned six of them and spent the last two days working on the one I still have. The 650 is fine right out of the box. No need to "fix" anything, so people start tinkering for fun. Then the "experts" chime in telling everyone that their tinkering isn't the right kind of tinkering. Then come the theoretical physicists who will tell you that whatever you did to your bike can't possibly make any difference no matter what you may think or feel.

So, when I tell someone that I installed fork cartridges or a BoosterPlug I speak from my own experience. They can believe it or not.

[twocoolgliders]

Hey...tinker all you want....why not?

physics is physics...the laws are pretty well figured out.....

If you are going to change something...at least give a reasonable rational "why"....

There are many reasons to go with different gearing....

But stovepipe's reasoning makes no sense to me...it does to him so fine....but he can't explain it!


Imagine gearing without using numbers???  "Oh this gear is a pretty one...i'll try that!"

Gearing is about nothing but numbers!!!


Sorry...sorry...really sorry...sorry for hurting feelings....sorry for telling somebody I don't agree with him...


Hey like they said in the 60's..."if it feels good, do it!"

PS....

Apollo moon capsule captain to crew..."forget about those stupid numbers...we don't need numbers...see that, that's the moon...just fly that way"

The 500s have so many issues built in that everyone feels compassion for their fellow sufferers. I know. I have owned six of them and spent the last two days working on the one I still have. The 650 is fine right out of the box. No need to "fix" anything, so people start tinkering for fun. Then the "experts" chime in telling everyone that their tinkering isn't the right kind of tinkering. Then come the theoretical physicists who will tell you that whatever you did to your bike can't possibly make any difference no matter what you may think or feel.

So, when I tell someone that I installed fork cartridges or a BoosterPlug I speak from my own experience. They can believe it or not.