[mwmosser]

Yes, his presentation leaves many annoyed, he does come across as a classic example of a certain type of policeman (his former career) however he specifically asked the manufacturers for their advice. YSS have (for kits produced for other bikes in the past) advised drilling of the damper rod. They say the emulators for the Enfield have been designed to complement the existing arrangement. A supplier of YSS also told me that it was not recommended to drill the rods so I didn't and am pleased with the results I obtained.YMMV.

I'm agnostic on SF; he was instrumental in getting me to purchase the RE over a Triumph Street Twin/T100/T120, and some of his gear recommendations I've followed. I subscribed for a while, but then found the increasingly stentorian tone to be a bit much, and have since unsubscribed. It's fun to see the back-and-forth between him and us on this forum, though. Classic barstool arguments transferred to the internet.

[Blazes Boylan]

Thank you. Has anyone been told otherwise from either manufacturer or licensed retailer? That does count for something, no?

A valid point.  On the other hand, every article or video I've come across on suspension mods points out that cartridge emulators require unrestricted oil flow to do their work.  How are you going to get unrestricted oil flow from the two tiny 1.5mm holes?   Getting the dampers out and drilling six 8mm holes requires a lot more effort--and potential for botching it--than simply removing the forks, draining the oil, and installing the emulator kit.  It certainly voids your warranty and might also put YSS at legal risk if a customer suffered some kind of catastrophic suspension failure.

If in fact the YSS kit really is designed to work with the damping rods left as is, I can't imagine it offers much in the way of improvement, though Uncle Stu says otherwise.  Nothing in the kit suggests some radical new design.

[JessHerbst]

I’ll say this about Stu, have a look at his Bar-end mirror install verses about a dozen others on YouTube. He makes everyone else look like idiots.

[iblastoff]

watching stus videos almost made me NOT want to buy an RE650 lol. such an annoying tone to all of his videos.

[mwmosser]

watching stus videos almost made me NOT want to buy an RE650 lol. such an annoying tone to all of his videos.

I also just "unnotified" myself from this topic. I don't have the mental energy to keep going with it.

[Hoiho]

Thank you. Has anyone been told otherwise from either manufacturer or licensed retailer? That does count for something, no?

Yes. From Robert Taylor from KSS and from Tec Bike. Both are YSS suppliers, Robert Taylor is a highly regarded suspension tuner.

George from Tec Bike: "The YSS full kit does not say to do this, but I disagree and think they are trying to make it look easier to install, but will never work as well in high speed compression"

Robert Taylor from KSS: "The other 50% of the issue (aside from progressive springs) is poor hydraulic control (damping) This is a reality that many users totally fail to grasp and concerningly also dealers and their wet behind the ears counter sales people. There is almost always a preoccupation for easy sales and quick profit rather than doing what is right. I have been constantly in this industry now for 45 years and counting so please excuse my cynicism.  Simplistically, think about damping as controlling the rate of change of fork position, damping if properly calibrated will slow down fork movement so it is more controlled. The brutal reality is damper rod type forks ( such as these ) produce an abysmally poor level of initial damping and brake dive resistance, explaining why they are initially sloppy in action. BUT ALSO, they produce too much high speed damping, explaining why they don’t ride abrupt bumps very well, exacerbated by the initial low velocity inclination to blow through their stroke and precompress the springs. Its all about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory."

By simply dropping emaultors on top of the unmodified damper you are only adding some low-speed compression damping. The restriction at high flow rates remain and the fork will continue to be harsh.

If you buy the YSS PD valves separately, you get installation instructions on enlarging the damper ports:

[Hoiho]

BTW he ha a lot of arse kissing comments on his video. He's very agreeable to those ones who parrot back to him what he told them. Again, It would be great to know something about his skill sets to gauge his credibility.

He deletes any comments which show him up.  Funny how he complains that people questioning his methods either don't respond or delete their own comments.

Would have made a great bobby..

[gizzo]

Thanks for passing on that info from Mr Taylor. His comments reflect what we've been saying about these things for some months now. Good to know. Also thanks for the instructions. I saw them a while back but yesterday I couldnt see them anywhere (my Google fu is usually pretty good but it let me down yesterday). Cheers.

[bluebus]

did not know he was an ex porker ,seems to have a few followers ,dont watch him now does get on your nerves a bit

[Mort]

I had to actively work to tolerate his speech patterns but after that I liked him OK. That being said I won't give a Streamer views if they do one of two things: Censor anyone that disagrees with them and/or shilling for bad companies (Ruroc, I'm looking at you.). Sounds like this dude does both, so he's off the island.

[Starpeve]

Wow. He seems very bitter and angry. Also full of shit, I think. Of course I know of him but I don't watch his channel. I had a look ages ago and found him incredibly irritating. Does he have any mechaniking chops or sporting cred to back up his "observations"?

FWIW, I fitted the cartridge emulators and springs a few months ago. Just to be clear and to give SF some high ground to scream from, my bike is a 535 single cylinder CGT. The forks look identical to me though. But IDK. My local YSS dealer said the holes don't need drilling "because they are already very big" according to him. I though bullshit but for the sake of doing the experiment I just threw them in per instructions, with the preload spacers cut down the prescribed amount (to compensate for the height of the emulator and the different length of the new spring).

I thought I could feel a slight difference around town, just a little bit smoother over small bumps is all. A burn through the hills showed no real difference at higher speeds. For the fun of it I pulled the emulators and replaced the spacers with new ones the right length to make up for the missing emulators. Amazingly, it felt exactly the same. So any change seemed be down to the new springs only. One good thing I found was that I haven't scraped the frame in corners since the new springs and shocks so that's nice. A bit of ground clearance helps.

Yesterday I had nothing better to do so I pulled the forks apart. I haven't had them in bits before, just apart enough to do fork oil and spring changes. The damper rods unscrewed easily enough using the holding tool I made to do the same job on my TRX850 a few years back. Imagine my surprise when I saw the compression ports were 2 holes of 1.5mm diameter. That's not very big. The rebound hole is microscopic but that's not here or there. The low speed ports in the emulator are about the same size. I should have measured them but I didn't. So no surprise that I didn't feel any difference. The emulator valve body is machined to fit the rod, so I didn't need to make adapters like some of you 650 guys. They're a really good fit.

I destroyed my damper rods beyond any hope of repair and irreversibly ruined my motorbike by choosing to take the next step and I drilled those MFs. 6 x 8mm holes just to make sure they're completely and utterly wrecked. If it doesn't work out, I can always weld them back up again and revert to stock (I'll probably be lazy and machine a brass sleeve to cover the holes). We'll see.

I reassembled the fork legs, poured in the oil, pumped to bleed and had that "oh shit" moment where there was no resistance (then remembered that the springs need to be in before the valves will hold still. Which makes me wonder WTF SF is on about with his comment about the spring holding the emulator and some compromise he's imagining that causes. It sounded like he thought it could bounce up and down on the spring or something. I really didn't understand that comment but I digress). Set the oil level to the prescribed 145mm, put all the other crap back in and refitted.

First impressions were that the front felt spongy. Just pumping the fork while stationary. A test ride along the suburban coast showed something else entirely: No longer do I need to absorb short sharp bumps with my elbows. The front glides over manhole covers and ripples. Some of the bumps I know are there from experience, it was absolutely bizarre to not even feel them. Also, for some reason, the fork doesn't seem do the Paioli rattle as much as before. Yes, I put the top out springs back in  .

I haven't had a chance to go for a rip through the hills so for all I know the bike will handle like a dog on lino at speed. I hope not but if it does, I'll fess up. It might still need some fine tuning with valve spring preload and oil viscosity, too. IDK. If it all goes terribly pear shaped I can always buy RaceTech valves which are the SAME THING but need drilling.

For the sake of consistency and what I imagine is a scientific way to do things, I've been using the same Castrol 15w fork oil throughout this caper. I think that's probably the right way to go about it. Also, for the sake of disclosure and science, I'm an actual qualified mechanic and allegedly moderately quick rider with plenty of track experience. I'm not the sharpest tool in the drawer and I realise some of you guys have a whole lot more experience than me but maybe knowing this gives some context to my rambling. I feel like I've left something out but can't think what it is. Anyway I'm looking forward to a blast through the hills to see how badly my machine is ruined and a lovely Humble Pie at the bakery. Or not.

Nice feedback Simo. By spongy, do you imply that the forks still dive too easily? As you said, maybe the emulators need some twiddling? It’s too early to gauge your rebound damping I suppose?

[gizzo]

Nice feedback Simo. By spongy, do you imply that the forks still dive too easily? As you said, maybe the emulators need some twiddling? It’s too early to gauge your rebound damping I suppose?

Yep. The fork felt a bit softer than before. Just while stationary, mind. It made my wife's little ninja come to mind. It's suspension is really crude too but it seems to work well on the track for what it is.
I can easily fool about with the emulator spring for sure, and change oil. I think the rebound shouldn't have changed, because I used the same oil and the emulator doesn't have anything to do with that.

[MartinThailand]

 ... If you buy the YSS PD valves separately, you get installation instructions on enlarging the damper ports:

Yet if you log in to YSS Downloads today, you get this with no mention of drilling:-

[Hoiho]

Yet if you log in to YSS Downloads today, you get this with no mention of drilling:-

Can only guess they've dumbed it down in order to sell a few more... without modifying the the rod you can't fix the deficiencies of simple orifice damping.

Here's an article by Paul Thede, inventor of the emulator: https://www.racetech.com/page/title/Emulators-How They Work

[MartinThailand]

Can only guess they've dumbed it down in order to sell a few more... without modifying the the rod you can't fix the deficiencies of simple orifice damping.

Here's an article by Paul Thede, inventor of the emulator: https://www.racetech.com/page/title/Emulators-How They Work

Don't get me wrong Hoiho. I agree with the 'drilling' option here but I'm just trying to demonstrate that even the manufacturers aren't offering definitive answers and solutions here, even to the extent of contradicting earlier advice.