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AzCal Retred

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BSA
on: November 29, 2020, 09:07:51 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSA_Company
Mahindra Group
In October 2016, Mahindra Group of India bought BSA for £3.4 million.[1] Mahindra Group makes small-capacity motorcycles and scooters in India, through its subsidiary Mahindra Two Wheelers. Mahindra Group also owns a majority stake in France's Peugeot Motocycles, and it has reintroduced JAWA motorcycles in India launching two models, Jawa and Jawa 42, while they will launch another model Perak by mid next year.


Mahindra To Launch BSA Motorcycle In The UK – Likely To Get Jawa Based Engine ; NOVEMBER 17, 2020
https://www.rushlane.com/bsa-motorcycles-classic-legends-uk-assembly-12383621.html
>>>>  This suggests that the product is likely to be a medium displacement retro-classic roadster commanding a premium over comparable Royal Enfield products. Coincidentally, the recently launched Jawa in Czech Republic by Mahindra Classic Legends, is priced in a similar range. Price of Jawa in Europe starts from €6k (approx Rs 5.23L). It is possible Mahindra uses the Jawa based engine for their BSA range of motorcycles. Jawa currently has two single cylinder engine options on offer – one is a 295cc unit while the other is a 334cc unit.m <<<<


Mahindra revives BSA brand to make electric motorbikes in UK; NOVEMBER 16, 2020
https://www.ft.com/content/76d67754-1ba6-4dbc-ab1e-8da232f47284
>>> Production of the first new BSA bike, which uses an internal combustion engine, is set to begin next summer, with the battery bike to follow at the end of the year. The facility expects to have the capacity to make more than 10,000 models a year.
BSA plans to export more than 80 per cent of the bikes made at the site, with the aim of tapping into demand for the marque in the US, Australia and Japan. <<<


https://www.royalenfields.com/2020/11/that-60s-bsa-of-your-dreams-is-back-and.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+royalenfields/qqMm+(Royal+Enfield+Motorcycles)

--That '60s BSA of your dreams is back, and it's beautiful--
>>> But John spotted another competitor on its way. There's a company that actually built some of those great old BSAs, under license, under the brand name Meguro. It's Kawasaki. John found a video of a spectacular new Meguro K3 coming in February, 2021 to the Japanese home market.
This is a new motorcycle that looks so much like its namesake of the 1960s that I briefly had trouble telling it apart from an original in a photo of them side-by-side on stage.
But let John explain. He has been telling me about the return of Meguro to the U.S. market since at least 2019, when Kawasaki filed trademark applications for the name Meguro in the U.S., Australia, New Zealand, Europe and the Philippines. Here's what he wrote me, in January, 2019:

"Meguro is the forerunner company of today's Kawasaki Motorcycles. They made under license BSA A7 and A10 models that (a BSA executive) said were every bit as good if not better than the UK-manufactured ones.

"Kawasaki has been building their W800 for a number of years and it never had a true 'fit' in Kawasaki's marketing plans, sold in small numbers in Europe's niche market and never made any sort of dent in the U.S. market. The current standard version (sold mainly in Europe not in North America) W800 is a dead copy of a late 1960s BSA Spitfire.

"And why not? Kawasaki's W650 and W800 have been unabashed BSA clones for years and every retro motorcycle enthusiast knows it. Now they have a bike, a very very good bike, that's been in production for years and they are going for broke into the retro market. With only some 'badge engineering,' that W800 and Kawasaki's reputation has the potential to put the screws to any retro Mahindra BSA and Royal Enfield had better cast their future plans with an eye on this."

In February, 2019, John added this:

"Because the Meguro has the real pedigree of  'made under license' BSA,  Kawasaki will thwart Mahindra from being successful in relaunching their brand engineering badged BSA just by giving the facts to the riding/buying public.

"The other stone is the sheer size of Kawasaki's total operation including their North American dealer network. They are way bigger than anybody else and can move products far quicker with greater accessibility than anyone else. No, they are NOT 'partners on the road.' They are the competition and have the potential to make things very challenging; especially fielding a machine that's been in constant production with periodic upgrades for nearly 60 years."

John's "partners on the road" reference is to Royal Enfield boss Siddhartha Lal's oft welcoming statements about competition in the market for retro looking motorcycles.

Lal commented recently that "imitation and trying to copy doesn't work, it just boosts the original. It's in a way them saying that 'we're putting our hands up and we can't do it, and so (we) will copy you.'"
John's point is that no copying is necessary for Kawasaki, with a motorcycle (the W800) developed from the BSA  and only in need of a classic old name on the tank to secure its identity. Again, in February, 2019, he wrote:
"The solution I'll bet they came up with was to resurrect Meguro as the banner under which these bikes will be produced and marketed. Parts and machines sub assemblies are already in production and this was done with the stroke of a pen and a filing fee. Folks at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business would be proud."

He added: "Now if I were Royal Enfield,  trademarking Constellation and Super Meteor monikers now makes a lot of sense...  The clock's ticking and your competition has awoken."

In August, 2019, John reminded me: "And at the end of the day, Kawasaki has the real BSA pedigree." <<<


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meguro_motorcycles

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2020/november/kawasaki-revives-historic-meguro-brand
>>> Now, more than 50 years later, the Meguro badge is back. Kawasaki has unveiled the Meguro K3 in Japan – directly following on from the Meguro K2, which was an improved version of the original, BSA A7-based Meguro K and the first machine to be developed under Kawasaki’s ownership of the brand.
To us, the new K3 is familiar, as it’s almost identical to the existing W800. It completes the circle, as the W800 is the latest evolution of the 1999 W650, which was developed as a tribute to the 1960s Kawasaki W, which itself was a rebranded Meguro K2…
Kawasaki Heavy Industries last month spun-off Kawasaki Motorcycle and Engine as a separate business, still owned by KHI, to give it more organisational freedom, and we could be seeing a move to expand Kawasaki’s appeal by using multiple brand names. We’ve seen similar things in the car world before, with Toyota launching Lexus as its luxury brand and companies like the VW Group owning vast numbers of brand names to attack different niches of the market. Kawasaki now has Meguro at its disposal – ideal for retro machines – and its large share in Bimota means it has a potential high-end brand to use on expensive machines that would benefit from a more exotic name.  <<<

« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 09:14:44 am by AzCal Retred »
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Guaire

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Reply #1 on: November 29, 2020, 02:23:49 pm
Funny. I don’t remember a vertical shaft on any of my BSAs.
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Adrian II

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Reply #2 on: November 29, 2020, 06:44:31 pm
Perhaps they should try and get their old A10 copy to jump through all the hoops.

A.


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AzCal Retred

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Reply #3 on: November 29, 2020, 07:02:09 pm
Wasn't that the Taglioni-variant BSA? ;D
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #4 on: December 02, 2020, 05:22:19 am
BSA to produce motorcycles again after almost 50 years
 MF Hutchins, November 25, 2020 04:17
https://www.motopinas.com/motorcycle-news/bsa-motorcycles-will-return-in-2021.html

BSA bikes to return to the road in 2021; 20 November 2020
https://www.hagerty.com/media/motorcycles/bsa-bikes-to-return-to-the-road-in-2021/
The first of the new-born BSA is set to be priced at less than $13,000.

( OHC design, driven by Link-plate chain NOT bevel-shaft like the 650 & 800)
https://shifting-gears.com/kawasaki-starts-testing-w175-motorcycle-in-india-will-be-their-cheapest-model/
The Classic Legends PVT LTD which is owned by Mahindra acquired BSA Motorcycles in 2016. Classic Legends has also in the recent past revived the Jawa Motorcycle brand in the Indian market which recently announced crossing of the 50,000 sales landmark in just 12 months of operation. If Mahindra brings the new BSA Motorcycle brand in the Indian market, it is likely to compete with the modern-classic range of motorcycles such as the Royal Enfield 350cc range, Honda’s classic CB series, Benelli Imperiale and the upcoming Kawasaki W175.

Kawasaki starts testing W175 motorcycle in India, will be their cheapest model
https://shifting-gears.com/2021-jeep-compass-revealed-with-updated-design-and-more-features/
Internationally, the Kawasaki W175 is powered by a 177cc single-cylinder, an air-cooled four-stroke counter-balanced engine with carburetted fuel delivery that makes 13.05 hp of power and 13.2 Nm of torque matched to a 5-speed manual gearbox. The India-spec W175 will come with fuel-injection technology and ABS as standard.
The Kawasaki W175 will be the second “W” motorcycle in the brand India portfolio, after the W800 which comes with similar design attributes and features a Bevel Gear Cam Drive on the engine. The Kawasaki W175 is expected to be launched around the INR 1.50 lakh mark in the Indian market. It will compete with the likes of the Royal Enfield Classic, Honda H’ness CB350, Jawa Classic & Forty-Two and the Benelli Imperiale. The Kawasaki W175 is expected to arrive in India early next year.
https://kawasakileisurebikes.ph/motorcycles/heritage-models/w175/#show-content






« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 06:07:12 am by AzCal Retred »
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Richard230

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Reply #5 on: December 02, 2020, 02:10:30 pm
Any Kawasaki 175 needs a 2-stroke engine in my opinion.   ;D
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #6 on: December 02, 2020, 04:12:52 pm
Like this one? ; :)

Checkpoint ; MY 1972 F7 KAWASAKI 175 DUAL-SPORT ; 100 MPH ON A 175 ; By Matt Cuddy
http://articles.superhunky.com/4/133
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Richard230

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Reply #7 on: December 02, 2020, 10:22:05 pm
Like this one? ; :)

Checkpoint ; MY 1972 F7 KAWASAKI 175 DUAL-SPORT ; 100 MPH ON A 175 ; By Matt Cuddy
http://articles.superhunky.com/4/133

That is the one. But I don't recall any that would hit 100 mph on level ground.  ;)
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #8 on: December 03, 2020, 07:25:04 am
Hmmm....maybe you're not one of those 105 pound jockey size riders... ;D

Street tires...clip ons...proper gearing...rider blended into the paint...slight downhill/tailwind...optimistic speedo...45 year old memories? ;)
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Reply #9 on: December 03, 2020, 07:57:06 pm
Even 250s couldn't crack the ton (through timing lights not speedo reading) until the Suzuki X7 was launched in 1978. For a 175 production road bike to do a genuine 100 MPH it would need a hell of of lot of tuning work and lightening and a lightweight jockey in racing leathers flat on the tank down an airfield runway - probably with a tailwind!
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #10 on: December 12, 2020, 12:14:22 am
Billionaire Anand Mahindra Plans to Resurrect Once-Beloved British Motorcycle Maker BSA
https://robbreport.com/motors/motorcycles/anand-mahindra-revive-bsa-electric-motorcycles-1234581935/

Indian billionaire Anand Mahindra is planning to bring back iconic British motorcycle brand BSA after it went bankrupt in the 1970s
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8955089/Indian-billionaire-Anand-Mahindra-planning-bring-iconic-British-motorcycle-brand-BSA.html
Indian billionaire Anand Mahindra has announced plans to bring back iconic British motorcycle brand BSA, promising he would 'do justice' the historic bikes.
The billionaire chairman of Mahindra Group has said that he hopes the first bikes could start rolling off a production line somewhere near BSA's old factory in Small Heath, Birmingham, by the middle of next year. 
Mr Mahindra also hopes to soon start building a research facility in Banbury, Oxfordshire, where electric motorcycles will be developed, he told the Guardian.
The first production will be of classic fossil-fuel burning bikes, but by the end of 2021 Mr Mahindra hopes that BSA electric bikes could hit roads.
Mr Mahindra told the newspaper: 'The UK was the leader in bikes right from the start,' 'That provenance is something that we really want to retain.'
Last week Mahindra & Mahindra announced that its subsidiary BSA Company Limited, UK, had bought three companies from BSA Regal Group.
Anand Mahindra has an estimated wealth of $1.7billion (£1.3bn), according to Forbes magazine.
It is not the first time that the billionaire, who made his fortune through the vehicle maker, has promised to bring back the brand after buying BSA Company Limited in October 2016.
On Christmas Day in 2017 he tweeted a picture of Father Christmas on a BSA bike, writing: 'We're sorry you've missed out on your favourite ride for all these years, Santa...We're working on getting it back for you...A shiny new one, but with all the character of your old steed.'
And on Monday the billionaire tweeted that the new venture would 'do justice' to the history of BSA motorbikes.
The UK government has awarded the BSA Company a £4.6million grant to develop electric bikes, in the hope of creating at least 255 jobs in and around Oxfordshire.
The new BSA bikes with traditional engines will cost between £5,000 and £10,000, the Guardian reported.
The company is wary about being hit with tariffs after Brexit.
It believes that it can tap into the desire that people will have to travel when lockdown finally ends.
It hopes to build a new factory close to the old Small Heath site.

Tycoon Anand Mahindra sets BSA on the comeback trail
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tycoon-anand-mahindra-sets-bsa-on-the-comeback-trail-q9shwhkk0
An Indian tycoon has pledged to breathe new life into one of Britain’s motorcycle marques by restarting production of BSA bikes.
Anand Mahindra, chairman of Mahindra Group, is leading a plan to restart production by the BSA Company, which has been dormant for nearly 50 years. Construction of a research and design centre in Banbury, Oxfordshire, is due to begin, with a view to producing traditional and electric motorbikes. Assembly of bikes could begin next year and Mr Mahindra hopes to help to “resurrect the British motorbike industry”.





« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 12:18:58 am by AzCal Retred »
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #11 on: December 13, 2020, 07:36:07 am
https://www.classic-british-motorcycles.com/bsa-mahindra.html

BSA-Mahindra ; The Deal of the Century
BSA-MAHINDRA UPDATE, December 9, 2020
When Indian tractor giant Mahindra & Mahindra (M&M) bought the old BSA brand for $5.4 Million USD in October 2016, they had big, ambitious plans to launch the revived brand as an upscale retro bike for the US and European markets. Now, 4 years later, we're still waiting. What happened?
Around the same time, Mahindra bought the legendary Jawa brand, also with big plans to launch a new line of bikes, including retro, sport bikes, and even custom-styled bobbers. When they announced the Perak bobber in 2018, so many orders poured in that the website crashed. It took a full 2 years to bring the Perak to production, due to production problems, a delay that caused many customers to cancel their orders in frustration.
The customers weren't the only ones getting frustrated. Mahindra leadership has been lamenting the move in the motorcycle business, which means that BSA may be on permanent hold. Who knows? The market for revivals of classic motorcycle brands is certainly red hot right now. Of course Triumph leads the way as always, but also Norton, Bultaco, Brough, Hesketh and Matchless have all been granted a second life.
WHAT WOULD THE BSA-MAHINDRAs LOOK LIKE?
That's a loaded question, and no one outside of Mahindra seems to know. But there is a lot of speculation. Designer Lee Thompson worked for BSA before the Mahindra buy-out, and this is the latest morsel of gold that he just sent me, above. He calls it the Gold Star Guardsman. Obviously a modern, water-cooled bike, but it has a very retro look.


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Adrian II

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Reply #12 on: December 13, 2020, 11:09:28 am
I don't think anything with a GP carb will be getting through the emissions regs any time soon, unless that's Lee Thompson's sense of humo(u)r.

A.
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Richard230

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Reply #13 on: December 13, 2020, 02:14:51 pm
I don't think anything with a GP carb will be getting through the emissions regs any time soon, unless that's Lee Thompson's sense of humo(u)r.

A.

 ;D
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #14 on: December 17, 2020, 08:25:42 am
New 17 Dec 2020 posting: New post, but must be a member to view. Still, even during dark times for Brexit there is some interest in the Mahindra-BSA deal... ;)

https://www.businessinsider.com/mahindra-relaunching-bsa-motorcycles-as-electric-brand-2020-12
"Mahindra's chairman explains why he's relaunching an iconic motorcycle brand in the UK — with electric bikes coming in 2021"
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #15 on: December 18, 2020, 06:18:42 pm
Older Article - makes sense, would give them product to sell, establish some market presence. 24 HP & a 6-speed gearbox is a good start.
Mahindra broke into the 2-wheel market several years ago with scooters then lightweight 2-stroke commuter bikes, which are in high demand in Asia. In 2015, they moved upmarket with the 300cc Mahindra Mojo sport bike, which has been quite successful in India and Asia. It will serve as the basis for the first generation of Mahinda-built Jawas and BSAs. So, expect them to look similar to the Mojo, and most of the latest round of artists’ renderings reflect this. It’s an obvious move for Mahindra- use the platform that you already have. It saves time and money. Further, the Mojo has already been wrung out under severe Indian conditions, so its a proven design. The DOHC 4-valve, liquid-cooled 300 single-cylinder Mojo makes 26 horsepower. Will the first BSA’s simply be re-badged Mojo’s? Or will there be something to make them unique, such as a 500cc engine? If so, will they have the good sense to call it a Gold Star?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahindra_Mojo
https://www.bikedekho.com/mahindra/mojo/specifications
https://www.motorbeam.com/mahindra-mojo-long-term-review-initial-report/
https://www.motorbeam.com/mahindra-mojo-long-term-review-final-report/2/
https://www.motorbeam.com/royal-enfield-himalayan-vs-mahindra-mojo-shootout/  (!?!?!  ;D ;D ;D)
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #16 on: December 27, 2020, 07:12:03 am
21 Dec 2020
https://www.zigwheels.com/news-features/news/mahindraowned-bsa-bike-launch-next-year/40357/
Speaking to a media house, Anand Mahindra, the Chairman of the Mahindra Group, said the company will manufacture more core parts of the motorcycles in the future, provided the trading environment is stable after Brexit. If the trade conditions aren’t viable, the parts will reportedly be manufactured at Mahindra plants outside the UK, presumably at its Pithampur plant in Madhya Pradesh, India, where Jawa bikes are also being made.
The global debut of its all-new petrol-powered motorcycle will be as early as mid-2021. It could be a premium motorcycle with an engine capacity of around 750cc and a nostalgic roadster design. CLPL plans to export 80 percent of the bikes to countries such as the USA, Australia and Japan. It remains to be seen whether the bike will enter our shores, considering the boutique nature of the brand. The first of its petrol-powered motorcycles will compete against the likes of the Kawasaki W800 and the Triumph Bonneville T100.


21 Dec 2020
https://www.businessinsider.com/mahindra-relaunching-bsa-motorcycles-as-electric-brand-2020-12
The chairman of a major Indian auto manufacturer explains why it's resurrecting an iconic British motorcycle brand — and making it electric
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 07:22:31 am by AzCal Retred »
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #17 on: January 01, 2021, 06:16:50 pm
India's love affair with classic British motorbikes
By Justin Harper ; Business reporter, BBC News

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54997191

Classic British motorbike maker BSA announced last month the brand was being revitalised under its Indian billionaire owner, continuing a growing trend.
Another famous British bike brand - Norton - was taken over by an Indian firm earlier this year with equally ambitious growth plans.
They follow in the footsteps of the historic Royal Enfield, which is enjoying success under new Indian ownership.
Business experts are not surprised: Indian manufacturers are known for liking to buy into well-known but struggling brands in the hope of turning them around.
Indian billionaire Anand Mahindra has said he hopes to "resurrect the British motorbike industry" with a plan to build electric motorcycles in the UK under the BSA brand.
The Mahindra group wants to start assembling motorbikes in Birmingham by the middle of 2021.
Meanwhile, the revived BSA will shortly begin building a research facility in Banbury, Oxfordshire, to develop electric motorbike technology, although it will still be making motorbikes with petrol engines.
BSA is officially owned by Classic Legends, which India's Mahindra group of companies has a 60% stake in.
The joint venture has received support from the UK government, which awarded BSA a £4.6m grant to develop electric bikes, in the hope of creating at least 255 jobs.
"The lure of a classic British machine would appeal to a young buyer as well as a returning rider that wants to relive their youth," says Scott Lukaitis, a motor sports consultant.
"If they can find a way to capture the look and feel but offer it in a performance electric bike, they might have a winner."
Mr Mahindra told the BBC. that he hopes "this small venture signals the renaissance of the entire UK bike-building business".
In April, Norton was bought by Indian manufacturer TVS Motor in a £16m deal, months after it had gone into administration. Founded in 1898, it is one of the last remaining British motorcycle brand - best known for its involvement in motorsport.
Among its most famous models are the Dominator and the Commando, while its Norton Interpol was used by UK police in the 1980s. Vintage models are considered collectors' items.
Last month, Norton began making bikes again building a limited quantity of Commando Classic bikes, with full production due to begin in early 2021.
"After this, we will continue the product cycle of some models that have already been revealed before we look to reveal some exciting new models," says interim chief executive John Russell. "With the state-of-the-art new facilities, production has scope to rise sharply."
"These British brands were regularly seen on Indian roads and still seen in old movies. They also used to be the bikes used by the police," says Vivek Vaidya, an automotive expert at consultancy firm Frost & Sullivan.
Yet sentimental reasons aside, Indian companies are motivated by strong business reasons, he says.
"These brands have been struggling, not profitable or scalable. Indian companies see this is an opportunity to buy a well-known brand and logo, which can help them enter western markets."
Mr Vaidya points to Jaguar Land Rover - taken over by India's Tata in 2008 and turned around into a profitable firm.
"It's a proven strategy for Indian manufacturers. They acquire a brand and then take it to new countries and improve its profitability and scale. This is what these brands deserve."
British-bred Royal Enfield is expanding aggressively as it aims to tap into the world's biggest motorbike-buying market in Asia.
One of the world's oldest bike brands still in operation, it has been owned by India's Eicher Group since 1994 and recently announced plans to open a new factory in Thailand.
The new plant is expected to be in operation within the next year and will be the firm's biggest factory outside of India.
Sales for Royal Enfield, which only makes motorbikes in the mid-segment market (250-750cc class), have grown 88% across the region in the last year.
While these historic brands may have been struggling since their heyday in the 1950s and 60s, they are far from dead and buried, even if they may not be entirely British-owned anymore.



British-bred Royal Enfield speeding ahead in Asia ; 24 October 2020
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54429714
Next year marks Royal Enfield's 120th anniversary since it built its first motorbike. Although with India still battling Covid-19 it has not announced any plans yet to celebrate this milestone. As for the future of the Asian motorbike sector in a post-pandemic world, many see continued growth. "The general consensus is fear of infection may shift people away from shared transport to individual mobility. Hence, the cheapest mode for rural areas is the motorcycle," says Mr Vaidya.

Norton Motorcycles bought by Indian firm TVS Motor ; 17 April 2020
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-52331528

Why India is mad for motorbikes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct0x5z

xxxxxxxxx
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #18 on: January 02, 2021, 11:21:34 pm
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-16/mahindra-seizes-on-brexit-tumult-with-revival-of-bsa-motorbikes

The first BSA models are due in 2021. While racing bikes still rule the road on weekends, the guttural rumble of a classic bikes with a more upright riding position is on the rise.

The Royal Enfield Interceptor 650cc has been the best-selling motorcycle in the 125-650cc category in the U.K. every month since May, according to the Motor Cycle Industry Association. BMW AG recently launched the R18 retro-inspired cruiser inspired by the 1936 R5, while Triumph Motorcycles introduced its Bonneville range as an ode to models of the same name from the 1950s and ’60s.
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #19 on: January 04, 2021, 03:34:48 am
craigslist post 12/31/2020

https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?action=post;topic=29722.0;last_msg=351207

1957 BSA BANTAM MAJOR - $1,250 (Point Loma)


1957 BSA Bantam Major 150cc Motorcycle: $1250.00 OBO
Engine Number BD3 13943

Frame Number CD 3 9809

Original Milage -9767

This is a very nice non running project 1957 BSA Bantam Major 150cc two stroke motorcycle with correct matching numbers for the frame and engine. About as complete and original as you will ever find one the US I would think. Lovely old patina as seen, front fender has been refinished and the seat lacks foam. This project comes with everything seen in the pictures below, including some books, and a spare later engine ( missing barrel and piston ) and Wipac electrics, some rubbers, seat foam and other small bits. The motor turns over with compression but no spark - this is the model that does not need a battery it has direct electrics as seen, I have not tried to get it running. I do not know any history on this motorcycle or how long it has sat I do know it came from an auction in Missouri some years ago, I got it from Pheonix AZ where it has been sitting in a collection for a number of years. I am pretty sure the milage is original at 9767 it is being sold as a nice mostly complete restoration core project. There is NO title it is being sold on a bill of sale or as parts for restoration. This is a nice fun project for the BSA Bantam fans, their is really nothing to buy just the time and effort to either getting running or strip and restore. You get every thing you see. contact me through Craigs list and will send my phone/text.

A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #20 on: January 05, 2021, 02:59:48 am
https://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/mpo/d/outer-nunavut-1972-bsa-500/7256352994.html

1972 BSA B50 500 project. With title. Engine was gone through about 8 years ago, with a B50 MX cam and an 88mm Jahns high compression piston. Was never started up though, might want to knock it apart and re lube things. Has a brand new Boyer electronic ignition. I probably have a suitable set of bars for it, and likely some other bits if I dig around some. Engine turns over fine.

A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


GlennF

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Reply #21 on: January 05, 2021, 04:29:59 am


Boxerman

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Reply #22 on: January 05, 2021, 08:11:19 am
... or you could buy a two stroke BSA 70cc Dandy:

https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/1957-bsa-dandy/SSE-AD-6683421/?Cr=0

The one where you need to split the crankcase to change the points!

Frank


AzCal Retred

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Reply #23 on: January 06, 2021, 05:05:29 am
BSA Motorcycles will roar again - thanks to Mahindra ( older 20 Nov. 2020 article )
https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/bsa-motorcycles-will-roar-again-thanks-to-mahindra/

"The first of the newborn BSA is set to be priced at less than 10,000 Pounds."

------

After JAWA Mahindra to Launch BSA Motorcycles Next Year   ( older 17 Nov. 2020 article )
https://bikeadvice.in/bsa-motorcycle-launch-electric-mahindra-2021/

According to a report at The Guardian, Mahindra will start assembling BSA branded bikes in the United Kingdom from as early as mid of next year. This means that we are looking at a very short time span of around 6-10 months. This, then almost confirms that a lot of the development is already complete and the final product(s) has been finalized.


« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 05:12:18 am by AzCal Retred »
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Reply #24 on: January 06, 2021, 10:29:11 am
And no doubt everything will be plastered in black powder-coating.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


AzCal Retred

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Reply #25 on: January 08, 2021, 04:53:57 am
https://electricvehicleweb.in/bsa-electric-bike-launch-details/

BSA electric bike looks truly British, hints Classic Legends’ chief
December 18, 2020 6:31 pm by EVW Team

( Looks like a Jawa/BSA Badge engineering effort - ACR - )


https://www.bikedekho.com/news/peugeot-p2x-concept-bike-going-into-production
The P2X is based on the Mahindra Mojo and believed to be powered by the same 296cc liquid-cooled, single-cylinder engine. It is also the bike we believe will make its way into production, partly because it uses the Mojo as a base which will help keep development costs down, and partly because there is no other Peugeot motorcycle of any kind in existence.


https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-news/bsa-set-to-make-a-grand-comeback-ar179012/pictures.html
( good pix )


xxxxx
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 05:22:17 am by AzCal Retred »
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Boxerman

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Reply #26 on: January 08, 2021, 08:08:53 am

( Looks like a Jawa/BSA Badge engineering effort - ACR - )
The text under the image does say:
 "There is no word on the launch of BSA motorcycles in India though components could be shipped from Indian suppliers. EVW’s rendering of a Jawa electric bike pictured for reference."

Frank


AzCal Retred

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Reply #27 on: January 11, 2021, 01:12:30 am

1969 BSA B25 - $2,500 (San Pedro)

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/mcy/d/san-pedro-1969-bsa-b25/7257541087.html

Extremely clean 1969 BSA B25 becoming harder and harder to find. I do not have the pink slip but will fill out a bill of sale. It is almost all original and is in great shape and runs perfectly. Will keep a steady idle and always starts first kick great for a collector or as a beginner. As time goes on these bikes will be harder and harder to find and they can only appreciate in value. Has 0 leaks!!! Shoot me an offer worst I can say is no!!!


xxx
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #28 on: January 11, 2021, 01:31:52 am
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


GlennF

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Reply #29 on: January 11, 2021, 10:56:44 pm
If I was actually looking at a BSA it would be something along these lines:

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1301962





AzCal Retred

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Reply #30 on: January 12, 2021, 02:46:06 pm
£14,900/ $20,000 USD is pretty rarified atmosphere!
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Boxerman

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Reply #31 on: January 13, 2021, 11:38:15 am
How about something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GTCEiBOsu4

Frank


Adrian II

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Reply #32 on: January 13, 2021, 01:53:48 pm
Followed by a CCM version?

A.
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #33 on: February 16, 2021, 04:15:09 am
The latest bum dope:

Cycleworld ; January 11, 2021

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/india-is-crazy-for-classic-motorcycles/

And for more fun:
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/photos-reveal-chinese-harley-davidson-hd350/
(I thought the SSR Buccaneer and/or Yamaha XV250 had already covered that niche quite thoroughly. Isn't there a rather limited market for $30K, 1200cc trailbikes? I believe the buying market for this stuff is aging out.)
>>> However, Levatich isn’t running Harley anymore, and his replacement, Jochen Zeitz, has been reeling back some elements of the plans he put in place. During the announcement of Harley’s $92 million net loss in the COVID-hit Q2 of 2020, Zeitz confirmed his rethought plan for Harley’s future—dubbed Hardwire—will be announced in the fourth quarter of this year. In the same earnings presentation he said the Pan America adventure-tourer is still on for a 2021 launch date, but didn’t confirm any of the other machines that were expected in 2021, for instance the Bronx streetfighter or the 1,250cc “high-performance custom” model that has appeared on the firm’s future vehicles web page. He also confirmed the 2020 model year is being extended, pushing back the launch of 2021 machines until the start of next year. Implementation of the five-year Hardwire strategy is said to begin by the end of 2020.   <<<




A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Karl Fenn

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Reply #34 on: February 25, 2021, 07:06:41 pm
Well out of the box the X7 would do 90, in fact the RD 250 was slightly faster at 93, funny reserection of BSA with a jawa engine l suspect in badge and name only.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #35 on: September 05, 2021, 07:27:40 pm
Pix of purported new BSA retro-ish looking big single...looks a bit Goldie-ish...?

While made-in-India Triumph will rival Royal Enfield, BSA will take on the likes of Kawasaki W800; Copyright (C) 'RUSH LANE'
https://www.rushlane.com/new-motorcycle-spied-royal-enfield-rival-jawa-bsa-bajaj-triumph-12410194.html

BSA trail
After successfully resurrecting Jawa, Classic Legends is working on its other projects that include Yezdi and BSA. The company had bought global rights for the iconic BSA brand in 2016. What we know so far is that the BSA motorcycle will utilize a 650cc single-cylinder motor. It is possible that the new retro-styled motorcycle spotted on road tests could actually be BSA. Its retro styling does look familiar to BSA motorcycles that were in production several decades earlier. BSA 650cc motorcycle will be assembled in UK. It will be positioned as a premium product in comparison to Royal Enfield 650 twins and upcoming Royal Enfield 650cc motorcycles. In addition to the standard roadster, other versions of BSA 650cc could also be launched. It could include a scrambler, cafe racer and cruiser. BSA will initially target customers in UK, where the brand has a strong recall. Other European markets will be covered later. BSA India launch is unlikely due to premium pricing and legal tangles.




« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 07:37:04 pm by AzCal Retred »
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #36 on: October 13, 2021, 06:55:52 pm
This article agrees with a pic previously found that showed a "test mule" in India that BSA-ish engine castings. Apparently a new Goldstar is in the works. Once you have a functioning "big single" engine, street & dual-sport versions are easy to concoct. Maybe we'll see BSA-KLRish and a BSA-GB/W-like machines soon.
" The report also claims that new BSA motorcycles for Europe will be manufactured in India and assembled abroad. " This shouldn't cause much worry, just look at the RE650 quality. India's more than able to build & ship very nice "knocked down" machines to be assembled in Birmingham later. It'll be interesting to see this play out.

https://indianewsrepublic.com/bsa-motorcycle-relaunched-with-new-650cc-engine/327662/

BSA motorcycle relaunched with new 650cc engine ; June 3, 2021
Mahindra & Mahindra Support Classic Legends reintroduces the iconic Yezdi motorcycle. Brands until the end of this year. According to a new media report, the Class Legends engineering team has also developed a 650cc engine for future BSA motorcycles. Yes, BSA Motorcycles will re-emerge as a premium motorcycle brand.

The new 650cc engine is in the process of being tested and powers premium BSA motorcycles. Someone close to development claims that the new middleweight engine will power the motorcycle planned for the BSA’s resurgence. The new engine with the BSA prototype is currently in testing. This engine complies with the Euro 5 emission standards required in Europe. Classic Legends is the first to introduce BSA motorcycles in the European market.

The report also claims that new BSA motorcycles for Europe will be manufactured in India and assembled abroad. In addition, a dedicated assembly line for premium BSA motorcycles has been set up at the Pisanpur plant. The launch schedule for the new BSA bike has not yet been announced. If all goes well, a new production-ready Avatar motorcycle could be unveiled at EICMA 2021 in Milan later this year.

Classic Legends has secured £ 4.6 million in funding from the UK Government. The company has set up a technology and design center in the UK and is looking for engineers from various disciplines. The company is also reportedly working on electric bikes under the BSA brand.

Previously reported Classic Legend will first launch a regular BSA motorcycle in 2021-22, Followed by Electric BSA in 2022. However, the COVID-19 pandemic can delay planning by several months.
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


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Reply #37 on: October 13, 2021, 10:12:34 pm
The "premium" description makes me a little nervous.  ;)
2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


AzCal Retred

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Reply #38 on: October 14, 2021, 01:26:57 am
The RE650 is a "premium" brand, yes? So an $8000 - $9000 Retro-custom-niche-market thumper isn't beyond possibility. If it's supposed to be a $12K status symbol, I doubt it'll last a year. It's not going to be a living-retro-replica like the Indian Iron Barrel Bullet was, and there's no market for that anyway. It'll have to be a painless-to-own, fun to ride, "antiquish-looking" piece much like the RE Interceptor or W800 Kawasaki or GB500 Honda.
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Reply #39 on: October 14, 2021, 08:29:30 am
The "premium" description makes me a little nervous.  ;)

Well it will be because the standard in the planed future in the centrally planed economy will be the super soco electric.  ;)


Richard230

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Reply #40 on: October 14, 2021, 02:24:14 pm
Instead of "premium" why not just call it the "expensive" model?  ;)  I agree with AzCal Retired. If they plan to market it in India for anywhere near $8K, they should include a display stand and use it as window-dressing in their dealerships. At that price it could even be a hard sell in the US. While BSAs were popular during the 1960's I am not sure how many current riders remember the brand and would want to pay a "premium" price for the brand name.   ???
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #41 on: October 14, 2021, 06:13:11 pm
Don McLean may have said it best:

"The More You Pay"

The auctioneer said, I'm not through yet,
Here's a horse the likes of which you've never seen,
And the straw hats in the sun, with a face beneath each one,
Shown doubtful and the auctioneer got mean.
Do you think that you can find a horse like this every day?
I don't think there's any better on this earth,
And the more you pay, the more it's worth.

Then out she came, a snow-white mare,
Prancin' and a dancin' in the silver sun,
They watched her from behind, as she did her bump and grind,
Walkin' naked, sad and graceful for their fun.
Oh how I wished I could afford that lady painted white,
A queen with high nobility of birth,
But the more you pay, the more it's worth.

My pockets hung with empty blues,
Silent heels were standin' on my growin' pains,
My bid was not too bad, two bits was all I had,
And the stable boy just handed me the reins.
Well the gallery went wild, and the auctioneer half smiled,
What we don't sell we shoot or give away,
'Cause the more you pay, the more it's worth.

And where was the boy, who rode on her back,
With his arms holding tight round her neck?
How tightly he clung,
When they both were young,
And fate had not let this poor girl be so
Disgraced.


https://genius.com/Don-mclean-the-more-you-pay-the-more-its-worth-lyrics
https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/donmclean/themoreyoupay.html
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axman88

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Reply #42 on: October 14, 2021, 07:20:31 pm
Instead of "premium" why not just call it the "expensive" model?  ;)  I agree with AzCal Retired. If they plan to market it in India for anywhere near $8K, they should include a display stand and use it as window-dressing in their dealerships. At that price it could even be a hard sell in the US. While BSAs were popular during the 1960's I am not sure how many current riders remember the brand and would want to pay a "premium" price for the brand name.   ???

I'm having a hard time understanding where Mahindra thinks they are going with the BSA name.  It certainly looks, on the face of things, that they intend these for the Euro and NA markets and not for India sales. 

   - For one thing, there's that price, approaching twice that of an RE Interceptor.
   - There's the announcements that they are looking to build these new BSAs in the UK. 
   https://www.bloombergquint.com/global-economics/mahindra-seizes-on-brexit-tumult-with-revival-of-bsa-motorbikes
   -  And there's the fact that Mahindra can't sell bikes as "BSA" in India, because TI Cycles has legal rights to that name 
   https://www.fastbikesindia.com/default/mahindra-aims-neo-retro

This BSA rebirth has alternately been declared to be a recreation of the Gold Star, an Electric Motorcyle, a warmed over Mahindra Mojo, and more, ... it's hard to keep up with the twists and turns.  At the end of the day, perhaps the only thing it will have in common with the machines from Birmingham, will be a few letters on the side in chromed plastic.

Even stranger than this convoluted BSA story, is the idea that the "Yezdi" name will have cachet anywhere except in India.  Since the upcoming Yezdi ADV moto appears to be clearly targeted at the RE Himalayan, with almost no resemblance to the original Yezdis, I wonder why Mahindra doesn't just bring the machine out as another "Jawa"
https://www.rushlane.com/upcoming-yezdi-adventure-motorcycle-to-rival-re-himalayan-12413050.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yezdi_Roadking

Meanwhile, I'm envious to see Indian made Jawas have made it to Prague.  Czech girls are well known for their beauty, but I question the practicality of these frilly frocks for actual riding.  https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/story/life-comes-full-circle-anand-mahindra-as-jawa-bikes-return-to-czech-republic-after-90-years-278888-2020-11-17   

I wish I could get one of these Classic Legends Jawas here in the US.   I'll swap you a Harley for yours!


AzCal Retred

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Reply #43 on: October 14, 2021, 08:12:50 pm
The stilletto riding shoes are a nice touch too... :o  ;D

Axman88 - astute & erudite as always. The "building" part was to be I have to assume more of a "assembly of knocked down India-sourced kits" operation rather than starting with a bin of disparate parts. As you point out, the UK/US market is pretty small potatoes for an effort like this, it's tough to see how they could charge (and get) enough per unit to make out. It's also a puzzle as to what they are really trying to sell. We've seen the "one-off" single cylinder machine, maybe, but it's not that big a challenge to whittle out one test mule from the solid given Mahindra's industrial machining resources. I'm thinking Grumbern with a napkin drawing, access to a small checkbook and a Mahindra backroom machine shop could accomplish that in a couple months. It's an interesting process to watch - maybe it's all a Business Executive alternative to owning their own sports team - "counting coup" in the board room?
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axman88

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Reply #44 on: October 14, 2021, 10:18:48 pm
maybe it's all a Business Executive alternative to owning their own sports team - "counting coup" in the board room?
I'm imagining the finance execs over at Mahindra giving dirty looks to any guys who mention a "motorcycle marketing opportunity" within earshot of Anand Mahindra.  He's the CEO and visionary, who just a few years ago, said that Mahindra's entrance into the moto market was a mistake. 

https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/bike-news/anand-mahindra-richard-branson-mahindra-bikes-jawa-bikes-bsa-bikes-launch-mahindra-mojo-price/1791618/

In this same article I link to here, he's pictured with Richard Branson.  Maybe Mahindra will be jumping on the space wagon train soon?   If Mr. Mahindra starts talking space tractors, that should soften up the finance guys.  They will be ready to start building Ariels and Vincents, let alone BSAs.

I think he was referring to the initial offering of the Mojo in his expression of regret.  The Jawa licensing experience was more successful, although I recall some misgivings by Mahindra insiders expressed in the media early on, as demand for the stylish singles exceeded supply and quality issues manifested themselves.

I haven't been keeping up with the twists and turns of the BSA adventure, so your assessment of the situation should be weighted more than mine.   They've supposedly been working on this since late 2016, and we still are  seeing articles with pictures of old BSA bikes and Photoshop renderings of concepts?

Maybe I missed something, but it seems like the Yezdi Roadking will easily beat any and every "new" BSA to the starting line.  This machine has at least been seen in real life.  https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/uk-bound-yezdi-revival-set-be-spearheaded-royal-enfield-himalayan-rival 


AzCal Retred

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Reply #45 on: October 14, 2021, 10:33:47 pm
Nice article link - I'm looking forward to the new Lambretta and Velocette offerings!  ;D
" It has never been more ‘in vogue’ to delve into the archives and cherry pick one of the many fondly-remembered but now defunct brands and give it a reboot for the 21st century. "
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 10:37:10 pm by AzCal Retred »
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Arschloch

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Reply #46 on: October 14, 2021, 11:06:49 pm

In this same article I link to here, he's pictured with Richard Branson.  Maybe Mahindra will be jumping on the space wagon train soon?   If Mr. Mahindra starts talking space tractors, that should soften up the finance guys.  They will be ready to start building Ariels and Vincents, let alone BSAs.


That's an interesting thought. Nevertheless I would probably prefer to see the market novelty space tractor than a half heartedly put together Vincent look alike.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #47 on: October 15, 2021, 02:45:01 am
There's nowhere to go in space. There's no good orbital station, there's no moonbase, there's no asteroid mining program, it's useless without a permanent of semi-permanent habitat. There is a LOT that could be done, but the tourism bounce flights are just counting coup for millionaires right now. And of course it's a nice place to site weaponry. But a "space tractor" wouldn't have much to do.

The microwave rocket, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_electrothermal_thruster ) is interesting -
Relative to other electrothermal thrusters, the MET ranks higher than resistojets and some claim that they may be able to achieve similar performance to arc-jets. This is based on the supposition that the MET provides higher specific impulse, or in simpler terms more thrust for the amount of fuel. Another advantage is that because microwaves can be collected and fed directly into the thrust chamber, the MET is extremely compatible with space transport. Finally, the MET can be run on water vapor as a propellant, which can be found in many different parts of the cosmos.[3]


I think MET's can run on ammonia too. The advantage that is you can refuel in space from found material, allowing indefinite exploration. You can drink your "fuel", and get O2 from it also. The shell of your spaceship can be coated with ice, which acts as radiation shielding as well as fuel storage.

The Moon is a good start. There is mineable Helium 3, which is supposed to be the optimum fuel for fusion reactors (still just 20 years away!  :o ;D ) , there is lots of aluminum there, so a heliostat could smelt it out in the Moons vacuum. The crust is digable enough to make it possible to build a relatively rad-resistant underground base. The gravity is 1/6th of Earth, so a space ladder is possible using existing carbon fiber nanotube, or even plain carbon fiber. The low gravity means you can also build a magnetic linear accelerator to get spacecraft/payload capsules off planet. 

Maybe we can eventually have access to an all Lunar alloy Greeves Griffon Electric motocrosser? The jumps would be awesome... :o 8)
 

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Richard230

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Reply #48 on: October 15, 2021, 02:31:10 pm
But somewhere there is a Tesla with an Eon Musk clone floating around in space.  ;)  Will he ever return?   :-X
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #49 on: October 15, 2021, 06:00:41 pm
Now THERE's something Der Ottonen's space tractor would be good for - salvaging Aeon Musk's Tesla and putting it up for auction at Sotheby's. That would make that $27M Banksy sale look like chump change. There is of course the minor obstacle of returning it to the ground from LEO. Maybe it would fit inside a refitted space shuttle? Apparently money is no object for these mega-billionaires. ::)
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Reply #50 on: October 15, 2021, 06:18:53 pm
Hej, it's not my space tractor. Axman came up with it, now someone has to sell it as an bold idea to that Mahindra guy. A space vehicle to pick up some of those 19K+ satellites orbiting the planet may infact be needed. Someone ought to deal with the space pollution finally - a space garbage truck.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 06:40:17 pm by derottone »


AzCal Retred

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Reply #51 on: October 15, 2021, 06:51:06 pm
A ice-comet fragment vectored into LEO & vaporized with a reflective sheet would make a cloud of water vapor. Collision with a vapor cloud at 17K MPH reduces orbital kinetic energy, prompting the tiny bits to re-enter & burn. Easier than tracking & retrieving each bolt. The vapor cloud would itself dissipate & re-enter, maybe making a bit of additional stratus cloud cover on the way, cooling terra firma as well as cleaning the LEO zone. If only we had automated "space tractors" that used ice & sunlight for reaction mass...
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Reply #52 on: October 15, 2021, 07:40:48 pm
Ya, why not. The more the company spends and the lesser return it realizes the more cash it gets from the capital market. Makes sense or not!  :o 8)


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Reply #53 on: October 15, 2021, 09:22:29 pm
Quote
Apparently money is no object for these mega-billionaires.

Lord, save us from feral billionaires.

A.
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Arschloch

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Reply #54 on: October 15, 2021, 09:35:46 pm
....you mean "federal" billionaires?


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Reply #55 on: October 15, 2021, 10:06:44 pm
If its a single cylinder 650, I am trading in my interceptor which i barely ride as compared to my other bikes.
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #56 on: October 15, 2021, 10:52:35 pm
A clean sheet design BSA 650 single could easily make a torquey & spirited 50 HP, have a smoothing counterbalancer, EFI & electric start, possess well sorted 2022 brakes, suspension & geometry, light alloy spoke-type tubeless rims, all LED lighting and weigh under 400 pounds wet. Keeping the classic look cases wouldn't be a show stopper, just a design detail. It could be a very sweet ride.
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Arschloch

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Reply #57 on: October 16, 2021, 11:20:17 am
 ::)...i would put a tube in mine.  ;D 8)


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Reply #58 on: October 16, 2021, 01:07:37 pm
A clean sheet design BSA 650 single could easily make a torquey & spirited 50 HP, have a smoothing counterbalancer, EFI & electric start, possess well sorted 2022 brakes, suspension & geometry, light alloy spoke-type tubeless rims, all LED lighting and weigh under 400 pounds wet. Keeping the classic look cases wouldn't be a show stopper, just a design detail. It could be a very sweet ride.
And it still wouldn't be a real BSA.
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Nitrowing

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Reply #59 on: October 16, 2021, 01:36:51 pm
And it still wouldn't be a real BSA.
This is my feeling too. You may as well pick any random bike and put a BSA badge on it.
BSA stopped designing and building bikes. Buying a trademark doesn't make your company BSA anymore than a pig being born in a stable makes it a horse.

The fact that there's a ton of nostalgic idiots believing differently doesn't make it so either.
No wonder we no longer have a motor industry


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Reply #60 on: October 16, 2021, 01:46:11 pm
I can only guess that anyone who believes you can have a "Nostalgic" BSA with basically Honda engineering and running gear has never actually ridden one. That goes for those abominations they call Triumphs also.
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Arschloch

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Reply #61 on: October 16, 2021, 01:56:21 pm
This is my feeling too. You may as well pick any random bike and put a BSA badge on it.
BSA stopped designing and building bikes. Buying a trademark doesn't make your company BSA anymore than a pig being born in a stable makes it a horse.

The fact that there's a ton of nostalgic idiots believing differently doesn't make it so either.

The question is if a ton of nostalgic idiots may become potential customers. There probably is no single vehicle those days made entirely in one place. If it was qualitatively good product with some interesting specs and attributes that a Goldstar had i would probably be interested. A motorcycle turns into the final product anyway in the hands of the customer.


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Reply #62 on: October 16, 2021, 02:00:37 pm
Kind of like putting the "Bar and Shield" on Chinese-manufactured crap and selling it in the H-D Screaming Eagle accessory catalog.  ::) Badge-engineering at its best.  ;)
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Reply #63 on: October 16, 2021, 02:19:52 pm
Kind of like putting the "Bar and Shield" on Chinese-manufactured crap and selling it in the H-D Screaming Eagle accessory catalog.  ::) Badge-engineering at its best.  ;)

           I watched this happen. I watched the harley dealer I had known since the '60s be ordered by The Company to build a new "store" or else. And the blueprints & requirements were dictated by The Company. Or else.

           The new place had three times the area for Officially Approved (Chinese) HD Accessories, clothes, temporary tattoos, Hair Mousse & other crap than there was new bike space. And of course a large totally decorated & accoutered free meeting room for the Officially Approved HD M/C & "Bro's Club". I got so sick of being called Bro by people I never knew or wanted to know by the early '80s I could throw up & I even quit going to gas stations on the bike. I built up a supply of gas in my garage.

            And, of course, everything on a harley by then was Chinese except the engine, tranny and frame.     
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #64 on: October 16, 2021, 04:52:40 pm
In the dim mists of tyme we Japanese bike mechanics believed that BSA was actually an acronym for "Bastard Stopped Again". My youthful experience with the infamous "441 Victim" did nothing but reinforce that belief.

Having a clean sheet design is the only way of selling a "new" BSA to the current crop of "mechanically declined" potential buyers. Even here on this forum we've had folks say that they'd toss (sell on?) their Pre-Unit Bullets if they broke and just buy another working unit, so there's zero hope an owner of a new BSA machine would actually fettle his machine to function if it failed to perform to the 99th percentile.

Derottone's observation is on the mark. " The question is if a ton of nostalgic idiots may become potential customers. There probably is no single vehicle those days made entirely in one place. If it was qualitatively good product with some interesting specs and attributes that a Goldstar had I would probably be interested. A motorcycle turns into the final product anyway in the hands of the customer. " .

Mahindra can certainly build a nice BSA-badged machine. It won't have the panache of 1960's Smallheath but it won't have the warts either. Panache & $6 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, but won't sell many of motorcycles to 2022 buyers.

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Reply #65 on: October 16, 2021, 05:59:19 pm
Why an Asian machinery company would be courting steadily declining markets in the west while their local markets have yearly volumes that are already almost two orders of magnitude greater, and increasing, defies understanding in economic terms.   https://www.statista.com/statistics/606311/motorcycle-sales-projection-globally-by-region/   

Maybe I'm the only one here who thinks that the media puffery around the Mahindra BSA might be intended only for the purpose of increasing the perceived value of the brand.  Maybe Anand Mahindra has found a prospective buyer?  I personally think he'd be smart to duck out of this one.  If there's really something going on, I'll believe it when I see the picture, even spy pictures will suffice.   Renderings of space tractors are no more difficult to produce than motorcycle images, probably easier, since there are no experts to naysay.

Speaking of their core product, I wish I had a good reason to buy one of Mahindra's tractors, but my spread is 100 feet by 25 feet and most of this is covered with concrete and brick.  There's several dealers right here in the Chicago area.  https://www.mahindrausa.com/    We may never get their motorcycles, but we can buy the products that made the Mahindra name known worldwide.


Arschloch

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Reply #66 on: October 16, 2021, 08:53:29 pm
In the dim mists of tyme we Japanese bike mechanics believed that BSA was actually an acronym for "Bastard Stopped Again". My youthful experience with the infamous "441 Victim" did nothing but reinforce that belief.

Having a clean sheet design is the only way of selling a "new" BSA to the current crop of "mechanically declined" potential buyers. Even here on this forum we've had folks say that they'd toss (sell on?) their Pre-Unit Bullets if they broke and just buy another working unit, so there's zero hope an owner of a new BSA machine would actually fettle his machine to function if it failed to perform to the 99th percentile.

Derottone's observation is on the mark. " The question is if a ton of nostalgic idiots may become potential customers. There probably is no single vehicle those days made entirely in one place. If it was qualitatively good product with some interesting specs and attributes that a Goldstar had I would probably be interested. A motorcycle turns into the final product anyway in the hands of the customer. " .

Mahindra can certainly build a nice BSA-badged machine. It won't have the panache of 1960's Smallheath but it won't have the warts either. Panache & $6 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, but won't sell many of motorcycles to 2022 buyers.

Which is what RE did. Even though the 650ies may not sell as good as their smaller models and may be the luxurious models in India they achieve two things. One is that customers who are not in the position to own one yet have an future outlook which is not too far from being realistic. This builds brand loyalty. Hell if i know i can never afford an Ferrari no matter what I do than i give a f@#ck about that company. If i have a prospect of owning one in couple of years than I follow up. Not to forget that most potential customers actually never been around in the era of the BSA's and history is allways twisted by the winner which in this case would be Mahindra as the owner of BSA, the marketing department sure can come up with some exciting story.

Anyway nobody will sit down and develop an clean sheet design, that's for sure. For what? Than it also turnes into Mahindra property. So this hypothetical discussion is pointless and the articles seek attention and maybe are just part of market research to estimate the potential customer base for a big story with a crap product with an bsa badge on it.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 09:23:07 pm by derottone »


AzCal Retred

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Reply #67 on: October 16, 2021, 09:38:43 pm
There is certainly a "brand contact-magic" effect out there. Jeep, H.D., Ferrari, Ducati, Maserati, Corvette, Nike, etc. etc. all sell a lot of paraphernalia to folks that will never actually own one of their products. You're issue is that you are too smart & pragmatic to play into that, so you don't see the attraction, but fortunes are built selling kak to those that do.

Another good point I thought you made was  " Not to forget that most potential customers actually never been around in the era of the BSA's. ". It'll be interesting to see how a new BSA can be marketed to folks with no "tribal knowledge" of BSA. I can't imagine Mahindra will actually try to sell turnkey retro-"replica" $12K - $15K machines to people that actually have a working knowledge of & emotional connection to BSA.

Or maybe Axman88 is right and it's all a ploy by Mahinrda to find the "greater fool" and cash out before the hammer drops. As far as Mahindra goes, a few years back they tried to market small diesel pickups, but the dealer network would never gel. Their engine was EPA legal, the pickup was Mahindra tough and got about 30 MPG, but it never happened. Having a good product is only a small part of the retail sales equation.
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Adrian II

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Reply #68 on: October 16, 2021, 10:32:13 pm
BSA is gone, dead and buried. If Mahindra come up with something half-decent and put the BSA name on it, that's up to them, but if they REALLY have faith in their product, WHY NOT CALL IT A SODDING MAHINDRA? Too many syllables? Come on, bikers leant to say Kawasaki, didn't they?  >:(

That said (or ranted) if anyone wants to offer me an up and running round fin Victor Enduro like I so nearly finished restoring, let me know.

A.




 
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Nitrowing

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Reply #69 on: October 16, 2021, 10:38:08 pm
Even here on this forum we've had folks say that they'd toss (sell on?) their Pre-Unit Bullets if they broke and just buy another working unit, so there's zero hope an owner of a new BSA machine would actually fettle his machine to function
I'm certainly one. When the cost of 'fettling' is even 50% of a vehicles value, serious questions need answered and, in the 21st century I wouldn't sacrifice my precious time bothering.
At the moment, I'm using my 1500 Wing for the 40 trip to work. It's 23 years old and gets oil & filter changed every 5000 miles. It always starts, needs no fettling and sits at 75mph for ever.
If a bike isn't useable, reliable transport then, to me, it's thumbs down.

A 'new' BSA, if designed sympathetically (unlike the new Brough Superior) just needs to be a direct copy with uprated parts. You know, the stuff we basically have to bolt on ourselves - alloy/stainless rims/spokes, USD forks, alloy swinger, twin discs.
What a new BSA doesn't need is the same idiots who design electric bikes anywhere near it or Keweseki running gear  ;D
No wonder we no longer have a motor industry


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Reply #70 on: October 16, 2021, 10:44:26 pm
Mahindra is doing a great job with the Jawa so hopefully they bring out a cool BSA too. A performance single please :)
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Reply #71 on: October 17, 2021, 12:45:37 am
I am seriously not seeing the difference between a Mahindra BSA and a Thai made triumph.

The only difference I can see is the Triumph name was ostensibly bought and revived by a British company. 

If Mahindra sold the name and new bike back to a British owner would that suddenly make it legitimate the way Triumph apparently is ?


AzCal Retred

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Reply #72 on: October 17, 2021, 01:04:29 am
Nitrowing @#69: I'm unsure why you didn't go for an SRX6 Yamaha, MZ 660 Skorpion or GB500 Honda, that would give you the appliance like reliability you are after with practically no fettling required and plenty of the "thumper" experience.

A 2022 Goldstar Replicant would need horizontally split cases for oil tightness, EFI & OHC for performance, gear driven wet clutch for durability, electric start for convenience, weigh under 400 pounds and likely possess a 6-speed just to keep everyone happy. A salable 2022 Goldstar couldn't possibly have a lot left of the old tech old days, as it would have to at least be able to keep up with that used $2500 MZ 660 Skorpion with it's lovely Yamaha engine. It'd have to be able to run at least 30,000 miles without needing an overhaul, leaking all of it's fluids out, needing regular pricey dealer-only maintenance or it's very likely to stay sitting on the showroom floor, unsold.

There's no market for a brand new aretefact, otherwise we'd still be running Pre-Unit Bullets. The handful of folks willing and able to properly "fettle" gets smaller with every obituary column. There's also no payback/cutoff threshold, it's all entertainment, all limits are self-imposed & arbitrary. We have a guy on the forum bolting on speed parts to his 650 at high speed. It's probable he could have bought a very nice, very quick new Ducati for what he'll have spent; but it's his entertainment and it looks like he's having a ball. For cheap transport, get a Corolla or Civic like the rest of us; two wheels sure ain't it.
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Nitrowing

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Reply #73 on: October 17, 2021, 09:08:55 am
I'm unsure why you didn't go for an SRX6 Yamaha, MZ 660 Skorpion or GB500 Honda, that would give you the appliance like reliability you are after with practically no fettling required and plenty of the "thumper" experience.
My RE was rescued from a young chap who'd had it sitting in a shed for a few years because it wouldn't run. Even covered in dust and spiders it looked lovely! It was only after reading the forums that I discovered the high maintenance required and sprag issues.
I don't mind harking back to glory years with looks but with maintenance and shite mechanicals? Not acceptable.
The bike I want is the SDR200 and they're now too rare to ride.
As for other transportation, my 'newest' car, the daily driver, was built in 1978 and, like the GoldWing, gets oil&filter every 5000 miles.

The call-out of Triumph is fair. When they started back up in the 90's, they were building GPZ900 engine variants which the wax-jackets grumbled about but, essentially, had the power and reliability to not be embarrassing to new owners. The newer engines I know nothing about - Triumph lost all my respect when they turned their nose up at a British designed and built GP bike which was snapped up later by Honda and was responsible for half of their GP wins in it's first season.

Any new bike will have 'stuff' on it that is mandatory - ABS, fuel injection, whatever - and obviously should be visually appealing. There's no excuse for high maintenance, poor finish, exploding internals and lack of power. The Japs had ironed most of these out in the 80's - 20 years before my Bullet was assembled.

The engine you've virtually described was the actual downfall of the British bike industry, the XS650. Again, British designed and built (Queen's University Belfast) and offered to Triumph who rejected it.

By all means, produce a bike that looks old and slap a meaningless badge on it but if a company wants my money the bike has to be better than what's currently available and a damned sight better than what was available 50 years ago. Which the Bullet isn't.

The Benelli Imperiale, however... that's the line a future BSA should be looking down.
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Reply #74 on: October 17, 2021, 09:41:51 am
I am seriously not seeing the difference between a Mahindra BSA and a Thai made triumph.

The only difference I can see is the Triumph name was ostensibly bought and revived by a British company. 

If Mahindra sold the name and new bike back to a British owner would that suddenly make it legitimate the way Triumph apparently is ?

Difference is that bloor bought triumph name and rights from the receiver. While he was gearing up for production he let Harris build triumphs under licence. Then in late 80's he started production of the new triumphs. So there's continuity. It's not like he bought a defunct name to slap on a completely unrelated object just to cash in on the name. Like Enfield :completely different company but continuity is there.
As for being made in Thailand, that's no different to vw being made in Brazil or BMW in South Africa.

That's how I see it. Feel free to hold a different opinion.
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cyrusb

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Reply #75 on: October 17, 2021, 08:23:47 pm
 Quote: "There's no market for a brand new artifact, otherwise we'd still be running Pre-Unit Bullets."
 Wasn't the demise caused by emissions restrictions? The fact is, you could not market an antique now if you wanted to, regardless of demand even in Europe .
 
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Reply #76 on: October 17, 2021, 10:31:29 pm
Parasitic losses on any activity are too large. Everything is an artifact for the FFF crowd, because in the future everything will be better, whatever they consider better since they are above the market, science and law anyway. The more jobs we have that pay a sh#it the "better" and more exciting  it's going to get, that's for sure.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #77 on: October 17, 2021, 11:30:46 pm
@ #75: Emissions are met by having parts that work well over a given time frame. An IB Bullet with a modern high silicon low expansion piston, good steel rings and valve stem seals can provide all the mechanical combustion sealing technology you need for emissions compliance. The CSC folks are still using carburetors on their newest SC250's & TT250's, machines that make about the same HP as an IB Bullet. The Bullet is a low compression motor, so NOx isn't that big a factor. Spark timing was crank-triggered on the Electra, eliminating the distributor drive gear slop, if it was even a problem. You could indeed market an "antique", but you sure couldn't sell one to the prevailing crop of buyers. All the maintenance hassles you've enumerated and the 50 years behind the times performance level for displacement would squelch the deal. An "antique" is also labor-intensive to produce, with it's myriad of hand fitted items, so an EPA-compliant Bullet would likely cost more than a modern, "clean-sheet" design that would leave it for dead in about every category, especially regarding owner maintenance.
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Richard230

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Reply #78 on: October 18, 2021, 02:11:49 am
Don't forget Triumph's idea of hiding their fuel injectors behind fake carburetor shells on their first injected Bonnevilles. I thought that was pretty creative.
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #79 on: October 18, 2021, 02:45:45 am
A few hand crafted BSA V-Twins from builder Doug Fraser of Melbourne, Australia!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GTCEiBOsu4

https://thekneeslider.com/bsa-b66-v-twin-by-doug-fraser/
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Reply #80 on: October 18, 2021, 02:59:28 am
and the 50 years behind the times performance level for displacement would squelch the deal

They could steal an idea from the IT crowd and advertise them with an "equivalent displacement" rather than the real one. SO ... instead of a 500 bullet it would be marketed as a "250 equivalent" Bullet.  :D


cyrusb

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Reply #81 on: October 18, 2021, 01:44:30 pm
They could steal an idea from the IT crowd and advertise them with an "equivalent displacement" rather than the real one. SO ... instead of a 500 bullet it would be marketed as a "250 equivalent" Bullet.  :D
Do you really think anyone bought a Bullet original for the performance?
 Anyone with any sense knew what they were getting. A last chance to own some rideable old tech.
 It was Enfields attempt to meet the emissions spec that killed so many of them. If you did not recognize and correct how lean your bike was from the factory you were in for a seizure . I thought it odd so many experts blamed the cast iron cylinder for the issue. How cast iron worked so well before is still a mystery.  ::)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 01:51:16 pm by cyrusb »
2005E Fixed and or Replaced: ignition, fenders,chainguard,wires,carb,headlight,seat,tailight,sprockets,chain,shock springs,fork springs, exhaust system, horn,shifter,clutch arm, trafficators,crankcase vent.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #82 on: November 26, 2021, 05:06:09 am
The latest bum dope!  ;D ;D ;D Just 8 days, 12 hours away from the "big reveal"!

BSA Motorcycles Is Back With New Logo – First Official Teaser Out:  Arun Prakash Nov. 25, 2021

Copyright (C) 'RUSH LANE' Read more at... https://www.rushlane.com/bsa-motorcycles-is-back-with-new-logo-first-teaser-12383695.html .
https://www.rushlane.com/bsa-motorcycles-is-back-with-new-logo-first-teaser-12383695.html

https://www.bsacompany.co.uk/

And Twitter steps into the fray - 

https://twitter.com/bsamotorcycles_

https://twitter.com/hashtag/BSAMotorcycles?src=hashtag_click

« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 05:33:01 am by AzCal Retred »
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Richard230

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Reply #83 on: November 26, 2021, 02:19:04 pm
The latest bum dope!  ;D ;D ;D Just 8 days, 12 hours away from the "big reveal"!

BSA Motorcycles Is Back With New Logo – First Official Teaser Out:  Arun Prakash Nov. 25, 2021

Copyright (C) 'RUSH LANE' Read more at... https://www.rushlane.com/bsa-motorcycles-is-back-with-new-logo-first-teaser-12383695.html .
https://www.rushlane.com/bsa-motorcycles-is-back-with-new-logo-first-teaser-12383695.html

https://www.bsacompany.co.uk/

And Twitter steps into the fray - 

https://twitter.com/bsamotorcycles_

https://twitter.com/hashtag/BSAMotorcycles?src=hashtag_click

I wonder what qualified BSA for free cash from the UK taxpayers?   ???  The size of their 300cc-class engines?  ::)
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #84 on: November 26, 2021, 06:08:31 pm
It's commonplace to have local (or higher) government pay for "job-bringing-industries" to locate in their confines. Good or bad, that's the practice.
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


axman88

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Reply #85 on: November 27, 2021, 01:24:34 am
Do you really think anyone bought a Bullet original for the performance?

Definitely!  I think that from it's inception in India, until at least the turn of the millennia, nearly EVERY purchaser of the RE 500 Bullet in India, chose it for it's power and weight.  This was the biggest, baddest, most powerful machine available in India, for a price that a working person could afford, and it was made in India.  Since by far, the majority of these machines were and still are, sold in India, it follows that by far the majority of Bullet riders have the Indian perspective of their machines, ... not your western perspective.

The way that those who love them talk about these machines is practically religious.  Similar short films have been linked to here in the forum, but I don't think this one has:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-JwZfLKX1U&t=281s


AzCal Retred

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Reply #86 on: November 27, 2021, 01:56:27 am
Thanks for posting!  :)  Those guys are incredible, what they accomplish working with so little. Great spirit, like the HD & Indian folks in the 20's & 30's.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 01:58:43 am by AzCal Retred »
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.