Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum

Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet Electra & AVL => Topic started by: AVL Power! on March 31, 2012, 12:36:13 pm

Title: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: AVL Power! on March 31, 2012, 12:36:13 pm
----UPDATED---


Hi Guys!!

I was going through ACE Fireball videos and other articles and was wondering if there is any way to boost AVL 500's performance. I mean something similar, since I don't have that much technical knowledge so I thought of asking you all RE Gurus :)


Thanks in Advance :)

-San
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on March 31, 2012, 01:07:03 pm
Here is a 'cut and paste' of some info I keep handy when people ask about tuning the AVL:
 I tried many different cams, the 'S' type were the only ones to give a free revving engine.
 The Hitchcocks kit is loosely based on a machine they asked me to 'see what I could do with'. I shortened the cylinder barrel by 2mm from the bottom, also the bottom of the liner, or it fouls the flywheels. I machined 2mm off the outside edge of the piston crown, to keep the squish area stock, leaving the central 64mm diameter untouched to raise compression from 8.5:1 to 9.2:1. The steel insert in the exhaust port was opened up by 2mm diameter, the edges of the valve heads were chamfered for a little more clearence over the piston on the overlap. 'Classic Bullet' competition double valve springs were fitted, as were Redditch 'S' cams, timed to the marks. Out of all the cams I tried, these were the only ones I could exceed 6,000 rpm with - nearly 7,000 rpm being recorded.
 For ignition I had a custom made CDI box with an extra 4 degrees retarded to prevent kickback and give better idling, but also 4 degrees more advance at high engine speeds.
 A 36 mm Amal MK II with 290 main jet was fitted using a Honda CB 500 T [1977 model] inlet manifold. The stud holes of the manifold had to be enlarged a little to fit over the AVL head studs.
 With a 'Goldie' silencer, I saw 32 bhp at the rear wheel. With a very noisy exhaust I had 33.5 bhp and 103 mph top speed in top gear on the road, it pulled 95 mph in 4th gear, approaching 7,000 rpm, changing to top and laying flat on the tank gave the 103 mph top speed in two directions. The cycle parts were all standard, even the handlebar mirrors were stilll fitted.
 To fit the cams mentioned, you have to lose the exhaust valve lifter, with the shortened cylinder barrel, the standard pushrods will still reach despite the cam followers sitting lower than before. I should still have the valve timing figures somewhere, but as stated S type cams were fitted, timed to the marks
The pickup for the ignition is fixed by two dowels around the bolt holes. I filed off the dowels and slotted the bolt holes whilst experimenting, this will give an adjustment range of about 4 degrees at best
 Hope this helps,
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on March 31, 2012, 03:00:18 pm
I guess I will need a specialist for this type of work. Here in india, I don't know many who can do this type of work, so I think I won't risk it because mechanics with less amount of knowledge on this might kill my bike's engine. Also, using a 535 on my AVL will help in any way? the high compression 535 Bore Kit I mean.

Also, at moment I can't afford a 36mm MK II. So if I use 32mm Flat Slide (TM32 I mean), will it help much?

Also, about the cams! I don't know from where I can get the "Redditch 'S' cams" but using other performance cams will help in this case?

-San
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on March 31, 2012, 03:50:31 pm
Hi San,
 The Redditch 'S' cams were the most important single item where a boost in performance is concearned. I tested about half a dozen different cam types and only put the 'S' cams in at the end, as I had tried everything else to hand with no luck and they were lying around, so I put them in. They transformed it all completely. I had a small batch of 'S' profile cams made and sold every set, but have not had enough interest to warrant ordering another batch, also they were quite expensive to obtain in small numbers. I doubt if any other cams will help much, but you could try. Also, any 'better than standard' carb should help a bit.
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on March 31, 2012, 04:29:15 pm
Thanks again! For now, I will try for a TM32. Have a Keihin, a friend was using it but he gave it to me but I think I will save up and go for the TM32. 19T Sprocket and maybe some stuff from Hitchcocks.

Stuff like ELECTRA (X) - TCI UNIT - I think that works with any AVL since mine is 500 too.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Ice on April 01, 2012, 11:37:59 pm
 Here is a link to an article on a mod for the UCAL carb that will help a bit as will a low air filter and low restriction silencer. of course adding either of both of the those will require a change in the carbs jetting.

http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/automotive-technology/crisp-punch-ported-throttle-slide-cv-carb-9399/ (http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/automotive-technology/crisp-punch-ported-throttle-slide-cv-carb-9399/)

http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/automotive-technology/crisp-punch-ported-throttle-slide-cv-carb-9399/
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on April 06, 2012, 09:57:47 pm
I was going through the Amal Carbs listen in Hitchcock site. I found a series of carbs which are 36mm.

Are you talking about these?

http://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/amal_carburettors/complete/mk2_concentric#part_5055

If yes, then can you tell me which ones are recommended for our AVLs

This?

AM/2036/300    CARBURETTOR, CONCENTRIC, MK2, R/H, 36mm, 4 STROKE

or this?

AM/2036/301    CARBURETTOR, CONCENTRIC, MK2, L/H, 36mm, 4 STROKE


Regards,
Sanket
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: GreenRE on April 07, 2012, 02:03:30 am
I was going through the Amal Carbs listen in Hitchcock site. I found a series of carbs which are 36mm.

Are you talking about these?

http://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/amal_carburettors/complete/mk2_concentric#part_5055

If yes, then can you tell me which ones are recommended for our AVLs

This?

AM/2036/300    CARBURETTOR, CONCENTRIC, MK2, R/H, 36mm, 4 STROKE

or this?

AM/2036/301    CARBURETTOR, CONCENTRIC, MK2, L/H, 36mm, 4 STROKE


Regards,
Sanket

Sanket

Those carbs will only help with wide open throttle, and in fact you will most likely end up losing low end torque. If you go through ACE's postings he has explains this better than I ever can i.e. it has too large of an intake port. The large intake port does not flow well at low rpm's...and the high rpm's will hurt the bottom end unless you beef it up...Free flowing air filter and exhaust will work well..the 30 mm flat slide has a big fan following here in the US too...Now for a radical idea: If you can find a head from the 350 cc AVL engine which will hopefully have a smaller intake port....that just might be the ticket...

Good luck !
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on April 07, 2012, 02:27:26 am
Sanket

Those carbs will only help with wide open throttle, and in fact you will most likely end up losing low end torque. If you go through ACE's postings he has explains this better than I ever can i.e. it has too large of an intake port. The large intake port does not flow well at low rpm's...and the high rpm's will hurt the bottom end unless you beef it up...Free flowing air filter and exhaust will work well..the 30 mm flat slide has a big fan following here in the US too...Now for a radical idea: If you can find a head from the 350 cc AVL engine which will hopefully have a smaller intake port....that just might be the ticket...

Good luck !

Thanks for the info :)
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Ice on April 07, 2012, 10:27:54 pm
Me, I would modify in stages or levels.

 The first level would be the mods my friend Bill Harris did in evolving his ElextraX  based scrambler. This level of modification gives gives the best bang for the buck IMHO.  After this level, the costs for additional gains go up steep and fast .
(Reducing weight helps liven thing up as well.)

(http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/gallery/583_19_06_10_2_26_13.jpg)

 The low restriction air filter and exhaust let more air in and spent gasses out.
Note the silencer location; the exhaust note is devoid of high frequency sounds with only the pleasant low frequency Thump-Thump-Thump- ThAaaUuuuummp,( 1st gear)
Thaaauuump, ( 2nd gear) Thuuuuump delivered from the tail pipe   8)

 The UCAL CV 29 was an alright carb but the 30mm flat slide gave him vastly improved throttle response at all revs and helps make more hp's

 *About the 30mm PKW that Bill is using on his Scrambler and my son is using on his Iron Barrel. The throat is oval, not round. It is 28mm diameter on the bottom portion tapering to 30mm on the upper portion. This gives good manifold vacuum for good fuel atomization and inlet tract velocity and cylinder fill at all revs.*

 Along with those mods would be an ignition system mod to make sure as much fuel air as possible was being being turned into power and for for fuel economy.
 On an Euro/US spec ElectraX's a performance TCI would be in order. On domestic Indian market AVL's with a "delco" ( a.k.a. distributor in the US)  I would go with a Power Arc ignition.

 Assuming all is assembled properly jetted and tuned correctly, as Bills Bullet is, there will be no problem pulling away from and out running stock Bullets. Fuel economy would be that same or slightly improved except when running hard and fast, then it will dip while making and using the extra HP's of course.

 Bills Scrambler also has the factory 18 tooth counter shaft sprocket while my Iron Barrel has the 17 tooth sprocket and a lessened restriction exhaust. You would think that my Bullet should accelerate quicker than his but Oh no it does not. His Bullet is both quicker to accelerate to a higher safe cruising speed and has a faster final top speed.

 Me,I would enjoy the easy starting, steady tick over mild increase in performance and all around Bullet goodness of that set up while saving for the next level; Big bore kit and cams.

 This is where the experience of those AVL owners who have gone big bore is needed.





Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on April 08, 2012, 12:42:06 am
Now that's one NEAT bike! :)
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on April 09, 2012, 01:24:25 pm
Sanket

Those carbs will only help with wide open throttle, and in fact you will most likely end up losing low end torque. If you go through ACE's postings he has explains this better than I ever can i.e. it has too large of an intake port. The large intake port does not flow well at low rpm's...and the high rpm's will hurt the bottom end unless you beef it up...Free flowing air filter and exhaust will work well..the 30 mm flat slide has a big fan following here in the US too...Now for a radical idea: If you can find a head from the 350 cc AVL engine which will hopefully have a smaller intake port....that just might be the ticket...

Good luck !
TThere are left and right versions of the Amals, I fitted a right for decent access to the adjuster screws. The machine I tuned had shedloads of torque with the big carb, beating the standard setup from idle to flat out.
 A big carb on an engine set up for one will give good performance throughout the rev range., with no flat spots.
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on April 09, 2012, 07:35:09 pm
So I am assuming that using any other racing cam for electra X will not give results good as yours. Also, using the setup that you had in your bike, will it effect the bike in any negative way? I mean churning out so much horses from the AVL will lead to any kind of engine seizure?

Well.. I am really inspired by what you did on an AVL and will surely try my level best to get there. OFC! Its an awesome feeling! Its really nice to push a single 500 till such extents. I think in few months I will be able to get the 36mm carb, tho I will use a 33mm CV carb for most of my rides. It's decent and also saves money :P

For certain occasions, I believe the Amal 36mm will be really good. In India its really hard to drive through regular traffic, it just gets annoying. So I will have 2 carb options open for me and when I am all set to do the modifications you have mentioned, I will let you know, maybe I will require some more help from your end regarding the "engine compression" part. I have a friend who blew up a dozen of 535 Cast Iron pistons for too much compression. It literally scares me.!

Thanks a ton for all the information once again :)

Regards,

Sanket
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: basanti on April 14, 2012, 03:00:08 pm
Here is my 2008 AVL Machismo which I've been working on little  by little by little over the years. Used to be regular here until I got banned for no reason. I think it had to do something with our Indian servers. Anyway, I found out I can login again so here is an update. So far these are the mods done:


535cc JE forged piston running at 9.1:1 compression ratio
Mikuni TM36 carburetor
Bullet Whisperer's "S" cams
Anthony's dry clutch plates running in our own belt drive primary
Upgraded TCI ignition box with more retard and advance (BW)
Battery eliminator from Hitchcock's
Electronic Tachometer
Head ported to match the 36 carb
Combustion chamber reshaped
Crank lightened
Rockers lightened
Chassis reinforced here and there
CNC Triple tree and fork brace out billet 6061 T6 aluminum made by your truly
Tapered roller bearings in the head and swing arm pivot.
Tuned inlet velocity stack made by yours truly out of billet aluminum
Tuned header with megaphone exhaust
Steel braided front brake line with EBC HH brake pads
35mm Tommaselli adjustable clip-ons and quick throttle
18" alloy rims
T19 front sprocket
Oil cooler from Pulsar 220
And way too much time researching, fabricating and getting the work done!!!!

The bike is a pussycat in traffic (yes I do ride it to work in Mumbai traffic also) with full on torque right off idle and pulling hard all the way to 6700 rpm.  It is proper scary doing  second gear power wheelies without me trying to. Super fun to ride!!! I've taken it to the track in Chennai twice and although the engine was proper fun, need to work  on handling/suspension.

You want some info on modding the AVL? Here is some of my experience:

I've tried the 30mm, 32mm, 34mm and 36mm flatslides on my bike. IMHO, for a stock head, the Mikuni TM32 was much stronger every where than the 30mm PKW slide I got from CMW. The TM36 was super strong in the mid to higher rpms but below 2200 rpm it was a little bit weaker than the 32, but still very ridable in traffic). That was before I ported the head to match the 36mm cab and modded the combustion chamber. Then the 36 was super strong right off idle all the way till the engine exploded :) heh heh heh, just kidding. Here is the article I came across on the head job which I carried out and can post pics if anyone is interested. Everything else being equal, This made a huge difference in torque.

victorylibrary.com/mopar/chamber-tech-c.htm

I've tried a bunch of cams and BW's "S" cams made all the difference in the world. They make the engine run smooth and full on torque all the way from idle till the 6700rpm (in 4th gear) I've dared to pulled the engine to. Stock cast iron cams perform way better than the AVL cams. Hitchcock's Performance cams for the AVL were a waste of money. After I get the engine back together again, I'm gonna borrow a friend's  Magnum cams and see what the difference is. The Magnum cams have 0.5mm higher lift than the "S" cams, apart from a few degrees difference in timing figures.

To answer your question if the engine is reliable for all this modification? The answer is no. I've had to rebuild the big end at 12k km then again at 22k km and then again at 24k km. Of course riding the bike hard to see its performance and being a work in progress with sometimes too much advance or sometimes too lean carburation etc could also have contributed to an already very iffy situation. The last time was totally my fault cuz I asked my mechanic to make an outer race for the big end roller bearing (like what H sells and claims is the problem with AVL big end failures). He obviously didn't do a decent job and after 2k kms its failed again. Another issue with revving the AVL so high is the front and rear of the piston gets scored a lot. I'm guessing its because of the shorter con rod this engine comes with? So I'm going to rebuild the engine with the big end roller bearing and forged con rod for the cast iron engine in my AVL. The con rod is 14.5mm longer, so we're going to have to deal with that. But the bottom line is the material from the factory is utter sh*t and needs to be replaced. Lesson learnt: you want a quality machine, you have to get the quality parts.

Then you have issues with the clutch....  Dear God, I'm going to stop now.

Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on April 14, 2012, 03:51:32 pm
Interesting Stuff :)
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on April 25, 2012, 05:17:32 am
UPDATE!!

I got a new Mikuni VM34 Carb for my bike. Got that delivered today! Megaphone installed long back, UNI Air filter ready for use. I got the jetting specs for AVL 500 (VM34 carb Mikuni) once everything is set... I will install them.

Also, I think its nearly impossible for me to get the "S" Cams as VERY less amount of people in here heard about these. So I will work on this later.. maybe just try out other alternatives.

Once I am done with these modifications, I will work on the compression. Probably get new 535 pistons for my bike. But these upgrades will take some time as I need to save up pretty much for other things.

Thanks to everyone for all the info, especially Basanti and BW! :)

-Sanket

Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on April 25, 2012, 02:02:35 pm
I could probably get more 'S' cams made, the problem is they are not cheap to produce in small numbers, so a lot of money gets tied up whilst waiting to sell them all in order to recoup the outlay and a [small] profit. I had 6 sets made a couple of years back and sold them all, but apart from the odd enquiry, I have not seen enough potential demand for a second batch to be produced. These cams work very well, but not everyone who owns a machine already in the minority, where Bullets are concearned [AVL] wants to make these changes, so it's just lack of demand / high production costs that put the spanner in the works for this one.
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on April 25, 2012, 05:21:27 pm
I totally agree with you! :)

By the way.. If I have any small doubts on these mentioned performance mods then.. can I contact you via personal messages?

-Sanket
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on April 25, 2012, 06:00:09 pm
Hi Sanket,
 No problem, if you think I can help, ask away !
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: REpozer on May 06, 2012, 01:23:39 am
Food for thought.

Best performance mod I made ,..was to loose 20 lbs. I understand that is not an option for everyone.

I was able to hit 80 mph (indicated) on a slight incline.
 Before the weight lose, I as only able to achieve 76 mph.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on May 06, 2012, 02:04:13 pm
Yes, weight reduction helps a lot. By the way..what do I remove from my bike? I don't use the E Starter.. So planning to remove the entire assembly. After that what all do I remove?

I would love to get some weight off my bike :D


-Sanket
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: REpozer on May 06, 2012, 10:32:48 pm
I didn't remove anything from the motorcycle. I ate less , and lost weight. :D
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on May 11, 2012, 01:59:54 pm
lol...
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: tooseevee on May 11, 2012, 03:20:27 pm
I didn't remove anything from the motorcycle. I ate less , and lost weight. :D

           I weigh 140 pounds. I can't wait for the day when I can finally get the '08 Classic into 5th gear once in a while (right now she's got 369 miles) & do some REAL plug chops & get the old Mikuni dialed in the way it oughta be. I just gotta live long enough & get enough rainless days when I don't hafta cut friggin' grass. 
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on May 11, 2012, 09:14:42 pm
140 is pretty good. I am somewhere near that weight range. Maybe a bit lesser than 140 pounds. Few days back I went for a short trip and had managed to do 88mph on a straight flat. Thanks to the "Rollie Free" position (minus the "rollie free outfit :P). I think the actual speed would be around 80~82mph.

By the way what Mikuni  carb you are planning to use? :)

-Sanket
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on June 21, 2012, 03:32:19 pm
Finally my VM34 is installed! Loving the round slides! Next goal will be the porting work and compression work :)
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: dustystranger on July 13, 2012, 04:34:41 am
I think egli said you can make any carb work.  Ask Ace what carb he runs on his Bullet.  Yeah thats right a properly setup factory micarb.  Save your money and buy gas and tires.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on July 13, 2012, 04:08:19 pm
Egli? He's a legend!

Also I think that Ace is running a TM32 instead of VM28 on his Fireball. VM28 would do good justice to my AVL but I want to make it different. Will be a powerhouse for sure!
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on July 15, 2012, 08:12:37 pm
Hi Dampking,
 Here is a pic of the piston crown mod I made, as discussed in the P.M.'s, which I couldn't add pictures to.
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on July 16, 2012, 05:38:54 am
Thanks a Ton BW!
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on June 03, 2014, 01:24:28 pm
Happiness!!


Thanks a Ton Paul!

So finally this thread got revived, instead of making a new thread, thought of updating it here.

Next stage will be sourcing new UCE crank - Looks like the UCE motors use same AVL crank and con-rod with hardened outer race. So plonking the UCE con-rod on my AVL crank, new block+ Piston + BW's crown mod and then these cams + a 19T front sprocket. It's going to take another 2 month's time as I have to visit my GF this month but all's good. Been dying to get these cams!! :D
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on June 03, 2014, 02:11:43 pm
How did you determine that the UCE rod has an outer bearing race in it?
From the reports that I have read, they say it does not have one.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on June 03, 2014, 02:13:16 pm
A friend who swapped con-rod said that they do? I was assuming that he was right. But if he isn't then no other go :( But even with no outer race do you think UCE con-rods are better than AVLs?


-Sanket
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on June 03, 2014, 02:18:57 pm
A friend who swapped con-rod said that they do? I was assuming that he was right. But if he isn't then no other go :( But even with no outer race do you think UCE con-rods are better than AVLs?


-Sanket
As far as I know, they are the same rods for AVL and UCE.
I don't know if the new production is better, or not.

And these stories about having a race, or no race, keep coming up. It's very confusing.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on June 03, 2014, 02:48:17 pm
I know :( keeps giving me hopes :(
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: TejK on June 06, 2014, 11:24:38 am
Next stage will be sourcing new UCE crank - Looks like the UCE motors use same AVL crank and con-rod with hardened outer race.

Why don't you verify the thing people claim to be true by spending some time at the workshop of practically checking the actual parts. I have seem many people buy part assuming what 'someone' said was correct only to realize the truth later after the expensive rebuilds.

I am using the original AVL con-rod and it holding  up pretty good despite the occasional rev madness i get into :) However, 90% of the time the bike is kept within reasonable revs (RPM<5500) thru the gears . It maybe advisable to actually go for a proper performance part from ACE of Hitchcock in case you are looking to change the original ones.

There is another important aspect to street performance - reliability. And that comes from quality parts which can take the additional loading after a performance build. I would suggest investing in the internals of good quality for the build and then you can keep upgrading the other 'bolt on' parts over a period of time

Also, it maybe advisable to have new cam followers installed with the new cams as I understand your current engine prob need a replacement anyway.

Cheers !!
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on June 06, 2014, 01:53:53 pm
I was actually talking to Vivek and he said that UCE con-rods are slightly better so we talked about the outer race too. I will go to indiMotard and see if they got any spare UCE-Con-rod :)
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: TejK on June 13, 2014, 03:43:49 pm
I was actually talking to Vivek and he said that UCE con-rods are slightly better so we talked about the outer race too. I will go to indiMotard and see if they got any spare UCE-Con-rod :)

I think it maybe a case of assuming that one is better than the other based on people's opinion. Th only way to check is to actually go along the engineering evaluation of the both. Ideally get a good part from Hitchcock or Ace to get the performance you are looking for.

I would recommend that as you have been saving up for quite some time for good parts, so don't leave the most important one out.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on August 04, 2014, 10:56:36 am
So we split the cases finally. Everything looks fine just that the Big end bearings gave up and the ball bearings were lying inside the case. That was pretty scary!

Here's some photos of the piston, barrel - I was actually expecting a dirtier internal than this :D

P.S - Asbo 12 in the making! Thank you Paul!
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on August 04, 2014, 10:59:48 am
More photos -
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on August 04, 2014, 11:01:18 am
Few more -
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on August 04, 2014, 11:02:44 am
Barrel close look -
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on August 15, 2014, 11:55:08 am
Paul, I just got the piston shaved from top, the outer 20mm but it's sort of a dome as the outer edge was shaved down by 2mm but as we went closer to the center 64mm it was not exactly 2mm, sort of a slope there.

You think this will work or harm the build in any way? I was talking to my friend he said this might work? he was also saying that if valves come in contact then we can make relief points making sure no contact. So do you think this is fine or do I just re-shave the entire 20mm FLAT Down by 2mm.

Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on August 15, 2014, 01:39:07 pm
Hi Sanket, it is VITAL that this area of the piston crown is machined FLAT looking inwards radially for a distance of 10mm, otherwise the squish are will not do its' job and the piston crown will probably hit the head at the squish face. Whatever amount was [or is to be] removed from the underside of the cylinder barrel and base of the liner, in my case 2mm was removed, is what also needs to be removed depth wise  from this radial cut. I reduced the head diameters of the valves by about 0.5mm and bevelled the faces of them to give more piston clearance when I was experimenting with various cams and timings, but I doubt you really need to do this unless you want the extra clearance in any case. My piston modification is pictured:
 [Sorry for the rather poor quality of the pictures]
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on August 15, 2014, 02:42:40 pm
Thats all I wanted to know Paul. Thanks :)

I will do as you mentioned.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: TejK on August 19, 2014, 08:05:40 am
So you have finally cut up the old piston to go ASBO after all ! I Suggest new rings for the piston !! So i guess i'll be seeing you doing 100Mph on the airport road soon  ;)

All the best !!
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on August 19, 2014, 08:33:45 am
Yes, I am really excited about all this. I am working on the old piston will try to source a new piston with same specs so that I can do the same thing but go hard on it. Hopefully it'll be an Asbo! :D
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: TejK on September 06, 2014, 01:16:32 pm
If you have the resources, you can probably get the Hitchcock's 535 high compression piston for the AVL. More cc and higher comp as well !

Or alternately if BW can suggest alternate piston which can be used - that will be even more cool !
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: High On Octane on September 06, 2014, 02:17:58 pm
If you have the resources, you can probably get the Hitchcock's 535 high compression piston for the AVL. More cc and higher comp as well !..........

You could go this route, but there are lots of horror stories about people seizing their motor with this piston due to not setting the barrel height correctly.  It is also quite heavy for a forged piston and puts added stress on the bottom end.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on September 06, 2014, 02:52:07 pm
For most affordable results, do the BW piston mod, the way he specifies it to be. It's the "best bang for the buck".

However, for those with more resources....
The world has changed.
Just use the flat top piston, and this ACE big-valve modified chamber for improved combustion efficiency, 9.8:1 compression ratio, proper squish, better flow, and more power .
(http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/gallery/medium_1119-160814232233.jpeg)
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: tooseevee on September 06, 2014, 09:07:53 pm
For most affordable results, do the BW piston mod, the way he specifies it to be. It's the "best bang for the buck".

However, for those with more resources....
The world has changed.
Just use the flat top piston, and this ACE big-valve modified chamber for improved combustion efficiency, 9.8:1 compression ratio, proper squish, better flow, and more power .
(http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/gallery/medium_1119-160814232233.jpeg)

            Oh, how purdy it is   :) ;) ;D
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: armando_chavez on September 09, 2014, 02:11:58 am
how much does a head like that run?
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on September 09, 2014, 04:58:51 am
how much does a head like that run?
PM sent.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on September 09, 2014, 02:40:11 pm
Okay, so let's review.
Very good reports about the "S Cams".
Very good reports about the TM32 carb.
DanB reports getting 6000 rpm in top, which should be right about The Ton.

Tooseevee reports he's very happy with the Ace head work(porting/big valves/Ace beehive spring package/combustion chamber mod). He also has the TM32 and Ace Air Canister filter system. Stock cams.

I don't know if anybody is using the 535 flattop piston yet.

And let's not forget that the Ace Roller Rocker High Ratio system that we developed for the Big Head can work in the AVL head too. And that kit can take higher lift cams too(up to .355"/9mm lobe lift) such as the Ace Magnum cams for even more lift up to .510" max lift.

If somebody puts all of that together, we're looking at a VERY potent street Bullet package!
All the pieces are available. It just takes somebody who wants to put it all together.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on September 09, 2014, 07:21:59 pm
Interesting, who has the necessary cojones/$$$/time to take this on? If my next project goes AVL instead of Big Head I will be sorely tempted.

Regards,

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on September 09, 2014, 07:35:04 pm
Interesting, who has the necessary cojones/$$$/time to take this on? If my next project goes AVL instead of Big Head I will be sorely tempted.

Regards,

A.

I would say that in a "full-house" AVL build as described, it would be suitable to use a TM34, or even a 35mm or 36mm carb to get all the revs that it could utilize with that stuff.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on September 09, 2014, 08:16:19 pm
I would say that in a "full-house" AVL build as described, it would be suitable to use a TM34, or even a 35mm or 36mm carb to get all the revs that it could utilize with that stuff.
My money would be on a 36mm carb. 32mm MK I, 34mm MK II and 36mm MK II Amal carbs were all tested in the same session on one occasion with the machine I tuned, small increases in power THROUGHOUT the rev range were noted with each increase in carb size  ;)
 This is where we finished up ...
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on September 09, 2014, 09:17:49 pm
A lot depends on the way it is ported.
We use the carb as the primary restriction. It is the smallest cross section in the tract, in the way we do it.
Others put the primary restriction in the port, and use a larger carb.
This ends up with different size carbs for the application, depending on how the builder approaches the inlet design.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on September 09, 2014, 10:01:30 pm
A lot depends on the way it is ported.
We use the carb as the primary restriction. It is the smallest cross section in the tract, in the way we do it.
Others put the primary restriction in the port, and use a larger carb.
This ends up with different size carbs for the application, depending on how the builder approaches the inlet design.
There may be great potential in the porting in this case, because one thing I was asked to leave stock was the cylinder head's factory porting and general specs - any improvements had to be 'bolt ons' only. I was allowed to modify the stock valves, change springs and open out the hole in the detachable  steel insert in the exhaust port of that machine's head, but that was all. Modifying the piston and shortening the barrel worked better than expected, this was only initially done to evaluate what a high compression kit might achieve, but aspects of my prototyping were not carried over into the 'kit', but that was not up to me to decide.
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on September 10, 2014, 12:30:39 am
B.W.,

t's a shame your well-known customer wasn't prepared to accept a tuned head as part of their Electra-X package, considering the tuned heads and other performance parts they offer for the classic Bullet engines. Thinking about it, it actually seems quite perverse NOT to include a tuned head amongst their range of go-faster goodies.

You did exceptionally well with what they did allow, though as is now becoming clear, a lot more can still be done with the AVL engine. I look forward to the first dyno run of a Fireball-headed AVL fitted with a set of "S" cams, though it will not be on my machine, unfortunately...

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on September 10, 2014, 01:27:28 am
Well, I just happen to have the flow bench information on the AVL head right here, so we can discuss.

The AVL rockers do have about 10% lift multiplier ratio built in, and the cams have .300" lift on the intake, and .280" on the exhaust. So, we have max lifts in the vicinity of .330" on the intake, and .308" on the exhaust.

These flow figures that I have do NOT include the manifold stub or carb attached to the head. These are bare head numbers.
We are looking at a peak intake flow of about 157 cfm, and 123 cfm for the exhaust. This is very very similar to the stock intake flow of the Iron Barrel head at similar lifts, except the Iron Barrel exhaust port flows about 10 cfm more because it is a bigger exhaust port and valve. So, we find it no surprise that it also gives about the same power as an Iron Barrel engine which had its compression raised to a similar figure. Apples-to-apples, very similar indeed.

However, we find that if the lifts are increased, the stock AVL intake port does have some ability to flow beyond the stock Iron Barrel intake port, but the exhaust port has a problem at .400" lift and begins to "back up" and lose flow at that lift, which is an indication of a problem in the exhaust port. So, the exhaust port has some problems.

The AVL responds to a larger intake valve and to some porting of both ports. With a 1.8" intake valve and a 1.57" exhaust, things definitely seem to look up. Without any additional lift over stock we got up to 183 cfm after making these mods on the intake side, and got rid of the exhaust back-up issues at all lifts. So, a 26 cfm improvement on the intake side is getting us pretty close to the Iron Barrel Fireball flow rate. Not quite there, but getting close. Pretty good, especially for not having any change to the stock cams or rockers. With the Iron Barrel Fireball, we have higher lift cams to get our lift up to get the 195 cfm flow rate we have with that head.

But, if we add lift height, by cams or rockers, we can get a lot more out of this porting job. By adding Ace cams and the roller rocker package with 1.45:1 ratio, we can bring that lift at the intake valve up to .510" lift. And at that lift with this AVL ported big-valve head, it will flow 208 cfm at peak lift. That is a significant increase of 51 cfm(33% more) over stock, and in fact that is enough to support a peak hp rpm near 7000 rpm, with a carb of sufficient size, like 36mm.

Additionally, the combustion chamber improvement with the  new compact shape is more compact and efficient, which allows faster and more complete burn, which in turn allows us to use a higher compression ratio without detonation. So, we get more out of it on the combustion efficiency end of things too.

This is what is going to give that elusive 40+hp figure that was alluded to when the bike was introduced. We pull more torque out of it with more flow, more compression, better combustion, increase the lift and duration to increase the rpm capacity, and push it to 7000 rpm, and you'll get your 40hp at the rear wheel, which will be around 47hp at the crank.
Essentially, right about the same specs as a Norton Manx 500.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: motorman2whel on September 10, 2014, 04:28:31 am
47HP , that's impressive !  ;D . Is it just me or does the AVL head resemble the old Fury head?  :o.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: DanB on September 10, 2014, 05:07:04 am
Wow, that sounds very cool ace.

Quote
This is what is going to give that elusive 40+hp figure that was alluded to when the bike was introduced. We pull more torque out of it with more flow, more compression, better combustion, increase the lift and duration to increase the rpm capacity, and push it to 7000 rpm, and you'll get your 40hp at the rear wheel, which will be around 47hp at the crank.
Essentially, right about the same specs as a Norton Manx 500.

Do you think the AVL or UCE bottom end can handle that?
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on September 10, 2014, 11:28:21 am
47HP , that's impressive !  ;D . Is it just me or does the AVL head resemble the old Fury head?  :o.
Yes, it was intended to be a "new version" of the Fury Big Head. And there are some similarities, but it is updated with some changes for pollution control.

After having the opportunity to work on an AVL head, I think it is a pretty good head that we are able to do a lot with.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on September 10, 2014, 11:36:57 am
Wow, that sounds very cool ace.

Do you think the AVL or UCE bottom end can handle that?
For a certain length of time, the length of which is yet untried and unknown. If it were mine, I would put new high quality bearings in it. The rest of it should probably hold up, except the stock clutch would not hold the power.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on September 10, 2014, 01:49:27 pm
At least the AVL engines have a steel conrod with roller big end as standard, so in theory, the bottom end should be stronger than on the 'Classic' Bullets. The oiling system has much greater flow, too, but early engine failures still appear to be possible in some cases, going by what I have read on some forums. I have yet to have one in with a worn out or broken bottom end, though, but I have repaired countless 'Classic' types, but to be fair, there are more of them around.
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on September 10, 2014, 02:28:46 pm
I agree with B.W. on this, and I think it is the general consensus.
While the parts may not be "racing grade" they are serviceable for reasonable duty, and 'should' handle some power increases okay.
I am leery of the bearings. RE likes to use cheap low-grade bearings in everything, for cost savings.

Owners can try out the longevity with power mods to see how it goes.

Like I said, if it were mine, I would upgrade all the engine bearings, including putting a fully-raced new roller bearing in the big end. I simply do not trust the factory parts or assembly in those areas particularly.

I recognize that people don't want to do that. I have been facing that since I started doing Enfield mods for people. But reliability and longevity are part of our goals at Ace, so we try to promote good practices to achieve that. In the end, each owner decides the extent of the work and expense in his bike. Different owners may have different goals, and expectations. The more power output and rpms, the higher the stress on the engine.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: armando_chavez on September 10, 2014, 07:23:08 pm
are the ace cams better than the S cams in this application?  I've already made the decision to keep my avl enfield for ever, which means im definitely going to dump excess money into it in the very near future.  Nothing in life would make me happier than a 40 hp custom cafe enfield.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on September 10, 2014, 08:10:07 pm
are the ace cams better than the S cams in this application?  I've already made the decision to keep my avl enfield for ever, which means im definitely going to dump excess money into it in the very near future.  Nothing in life would make me happier than a 40 hp custom cafe enfield.

The Ace cams would require the Ace head mods and special valve gear. The S Cams are suited to the stock valve springs, which no other sports cams seem to suit.
So, it is a matter of application.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on September 11, 2014, 03:50:08 am
I think some of the talk of 40BHP for the 500 AVL stems from the previous UK importer's claim that the engine had been redesigned to be able to SURVIVE up to 44BHP output (if anyone were to develop it that far) rather than actually PRODUCE 44 BHP!  ;D

Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: TejK on September 11, 2014, 12:00:46 pm
This is what is going to give that elusive 40+hp figure that was alluded to when the bike was introduced. We pull more torque out of it with more flow, more compression, better combustion, increase the lift and duration to increase the rpm capacity, and push it to 7000 rpm, and you'll get your 40hp at the rear wheel, which will be around 47hp at the crank.
Essentially, right about the same specs as a Norton Manx 500.

All this with the stock Ignition timing ? or any changes to the stock TCI?
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on September 11, 2014, 12:56:16 pm
All this with the stock Ignition timing ? or any changes to the stock TCI?
I'm sure that spending some time working on optimizing ignition timing adjustments would give best results.
However, so far we have not seen problems arising from stock timing with the higher compression and our chamber mods. Perhaps it might be a little better with a few degrees retarded from stock, because of the faster burn. It would be up to the owner to experiment with it to find the best timing.

The further the engine is modded away from the stock conditions, the more specialized tuning will be required. This is typical with all performance engines.

B.W.'s adjustable TCI box might be a good idea, along with some offset Woodruff keys, to give plenty of timing options.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on November 04, 2014, 05:22:21 pm
Paul - The valve springs you used were competition springs by Hitchcock. I did check them on their site and it says that they work on Iron barrels only. Any idea if any sort of modification is required? or is it just plug and play type?

Regards,
Sanket
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: 1 Thump on November 04, 2014, 07:59:02 pm
I'm sure that spending some time working on optimizing ignition timing adjustments would give best results.
However, so far we have not seen problems arising from stock timing with the higher compression and our chamber mods. Perhaps it might be a little better with a few degrees retarded from stock, because of the faster burn. It would be up to the owner to experiment with it to find the best timing.

The further the engine is modded away from the stock conditions, the more specialized tuning will be required. This is typical with all performance engines.

B.W.'s adjustable TCI box might be a good idea, along with some offset Woodruff keys, to give plenty of timing options.

Hi Tom
I have heard a lot about the woodruff keys. Are these installed on the crank?
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on November 04, 2014, 08:06:57 pm
Hi Tom
I have heard a lot about the woodruff keys. Are these installed on the crank?
Yes, they are the key that holds the gear in the location on the crank that is desired. It indexes the timing gear. Offset keys can be used to adjust the timing by the amount set in the amount of offset in the key. These offset keys are fairly readily available, but I do not know the offset increments off the top of my head. On the Iron Barrel engines, we really don't need them.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on November 04, 2014, 08:52:36 pm
Paul - The valve springs you used were competition springs by Hitchcock. I did check them on their site and it says that they work on Iron barrels only. Any idea if any sort of modification is required? or is it just plug and play type?

Regards,
Sanket
Hi Sanket,
 From memory, I think I fitted them using the lower spring seats which came with the spring kit, but retaining the original [AVL] spring caps, even though they had no register for the inner springs as such. I relied on the outer springs to retain the inner springs at the top. Also, Hitchcocks had [at that time], two different types of competition spring - they sent both types and I remember the type I chose being able to fully compress to a shorter overall length, making going coil bound less likely. I have included the one and only photo I took of this - sorry it is of rather poor quality!
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: armando_chavez on November 05, 2014, 03:08:26 am
so what exactly has to be done to the head in order to fit compitition valves and springs or beehives
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on November 05, 2014, 06:59:46 am
Hi Sanket,
 From memory, I think I fitted them using the lower spring seats which came with the spring kit, but retaining the original [AVL] spring caps, even though they had no register for the inner springs as such. I relied on the outer springs to retain the inner springs at the top. Also, Hitchcocks had [at that time], two different types of competition spring - they sent both types and I remember the type I chose being able to fully compress to a shorter overall length, making going coil bound less likely. I have included the one and only photo I took of this - sorry it is of rather poor quality!
 B.W.

I checked recently and could find only one. I guess I will wait and see.

Regards,
Sanket
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on November 05, 2014, 01:09:40 pm
so what exactly has to be done to the head in order to fit compitition valves and springs or beehives
I can't speak for the 'Beehives', but the types I used were a straight swap, with no modifications to the head required.
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: rep_movsd on November 05, 2014, 02:18:52 pm
so what exactly has to be done to the head in order to fit compitition valves and springs or beehives

The beehives that ACE puts in the ACE Mondello heads are totally custom made for the special valves, it's not something you can plug in.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: armando_chavez on November 05, 2014, 04:05:13 pm
well what i wanted to know is if the whole Hitchcocks competition set can be made to fit with easy to no mods i can do some stuff.  I feel like if its minor i can do it.  Do the HC valves and springs and everything fit?
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on November 06, 2014, 01:45:32 pm
well what i wanted to know is if the whole Hitchcocks competition set can be made to fit with easy to no mods i can do some stuff.  I feel like if its minor i can do it.  Do the HC valves and springs and everything fit?
No, they are for the 'Classic' type engines and a totally different type.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on November 08, 2014, 09:52:44 am
It just so happens I am working on 'Asbo' No 12, which is a fairly well known engine already to some of this group, being a hybrid of AVL top end and crank, but fitted on / in 'Classic' type crankcases. The cylinder head for this engine was modified by the fitting of Hitchcock's double competition valve springs some time ago, in my workshop. The work I am currently undertaking meant the valves needed to come out for cleaning and checking etc, so here are some pictures - as can be seen, I have used the springs and lower spring seats from the Hitchcock's kit, but the holes through the centres of the spring seats have been enlarged slightly, to pass over the valve guide seals. The 'stock' AVL spring seat shim has been retained, but an additional spacer, in the form of a suitable washer has been added. The outer spring sits 4.6 mm above the machined recess in the head with the washer, shim and spring seat underneath it. The 'stock' valve spring cap and collets are then fitted as normal, to compress the two springs and retain the valve. Exactly the same was done with both valves  ;)
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on November 08, 2014, 03:39:59 pm
Paul, I had a doubt. I have few friends who are running their iron barrel motors on high compression pistons and cams with higher lift. They never face any sort of valve bounce and can happily rev past 5500 or 5800rpm barrier. So do you think it's the AVL head which restricts the revs ?

-Sanket
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on November 09, 2014, 09:06:31 pm
Paul, I had a doubt. I have few friends who are running their iron barrel motors on high compression pistons and cams with higher lift. They never face any sort of valve bounce and can happily rev past 5500 or 5800rpm barrier. So do you think it's the AVL head which restricts the revs ?

-Sanket
Hi Sanket,
 I think the AVL head in its' standard form is pretty efficient, after all I was expressly forbidden to 'play with' the head on the original testbed machine, because everything had to be a 'bolt on' tuning part and as is well known I saw over both 33 BHP and 100 MPH from the end result, which could rev to 7000 RPM in the lower gears, although maximum power occurred at 6000 RPM. I stand by the cams holding the revs back, for whatever reason, as different double valve springs that will work for the huge valves in the 'big Head' types could not control the valve bounce until the 'S' cams went in. The 'Iron' types don't seem to suffer in this way to such a degree.
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on November 09, 2014, 09:39:09 pm
It's possible that the stock cams have closing ramps that are very fast closing, and this can cause valve bounce. Changing the cam profile can solve that, and maybe those S Cams just have the right profile to do it.

And remember, these RE stock cams vary from one to the next, and it is possible that one set of cams might work okay, but other ones might not.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on November 10, 2014, 01:07:00 am
So the Chennai factory might have produced the odd set of "S" cams by accident, due to manufacturing inconsistencies. Excellent!  ;D

I suppose that is just about feasible as the Indian C.I. Bullet cams have broadly similar though not identical profiles.

Valve bounce on stock AVL cams aside, it has always puzzled me as to why a skilled engine tuner, with a good selection of performance cams known to work in classic Bullet engines, could only find one set of cams that would really do the business, and these turn out to be a set of touring cams. There's definitely something about the 500 AVL engine that doesn't seem to want to play by the rules.

I'm at a loss to understand why the head itself should be to blame, so is there perhaps some peculiarity in the rocker design that makes this engine so attuned to one particular cam profile?

Still puzzled.

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on November 10, 2014, 06:15:53 am
It also might be the valves. They are very long. This could cause a "springy" behavior when hot, which might lead to bounce.
When we do valve gear, we change out all the stock parts, so we are in control over what happens.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on November 10, 2014, 06:42:38 am
So the Chennai factory might have produced the odd set of "S" cams by accident, due to manufacturing inconsistencies. Excellent!  ;D

I suppose that is just about feasible as the Indian C.I. Bullet cams have broadly similar though not identical profiles.

Valve bounce on stock AVL cams aside, it has always puzzled me as to why a skilled engine tuner, with a good selection of performance cams known to work in classic Bullet engines, could only find one set of cams that would really do the business, and these turn out to be a set of touring cams. There's definitely something about the 500 AVL engine that doesn't seem to want to play by the rules.

I'm at a loss to understand why the head itself should be to blame, so is there perhaps some peculiarity in the rocker design that makes this engine so attuned to one particular cam profile?

Still puzzled.

A.

I am confused because of the same set of reasons. My friend has an AVL with UCE top end and even that one doesn't like to rev past 5500rpm or so. So I was wondering if the top end of Iron Barrels can give us more freedom? I guess it's worth the try  8)


Regards,
Sanket
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on November 10, 2014, 11:12:27 am
I am confused because of the same set of reasons. My friend has an AVL with UCE top end and even that one doesn't like to rev past 5500rpm or so. So I was wondering if the top end of Iron Barrels can give us more freedom? I guess it's worth the try  8)


Regards,
Sanket
Okay, well the AVL and UCE have very similar internal parts and design. They might even use the same valves/springs. I haven't actually compared those parts side-to-side. The springs on both are single coil with single diameter, and have no damping system.
Also note that the UCE has a rev limiter set at around 5500 rpm. This may be for a reason of valve control issues at rpms higher than that, which in the UCE could cause lifter pump-up problems.
So, we might be seeing a possible similarity of this sort of behavior on both of these models, possibly because they have these internal similarities.

The top end of the iron barrels will rev, as long as you change to performance valves and springs.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on November 10, 2014, 04:04:08 pm
I thought of this because I can get an Iron Barrel head, get the performance valves and springs and do some squish band work + compression bumping and then try out performance cams for Iron Barrel, by replacing my AVL head. Not that I can do it now but maybe worth the shot later. Can always take this up as a part time project and work on it but the only doubt on my part is - will it end the valve bounce issue but I guess.. for these sorta things, we need to do it to figure out.

-Sanket
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on November 10, 2014, 04:22:49 pm
I thought of this because I can get an Iron Barrel head, get the performance valves and springs and do some squish band work + compression bumping and then try out performance cams for Iron Barrel, by replacing my AVL head. Not that I can do it now but maybe worth the shot later. Can always take this up as a part time project and work on it but the only doubt on my part is - will it end the valve bounce issue but I guess.. for these sorta things, we need to do it to figure out.

-Sanket
Don't forget that our upcoming new billet head for the UCE will also work on the AVL.

And also, it is important to avoid "scatter building". Get a goal in mind, and build toward that goal, using the correct components and methods. I see a lot of attempts to put various things together which are not designed to work well together, seemingly in some desperate attempt to make "something" happen.
Set a goal, make a design, proceed with the plan.
Do it right. Don't cheap out. Get the necessary precision machine work and measurments. Fit everything properly.

This is what I have been trying to get across to people for years. You can't "hodge-podge" a motor with a bunch of old scrap yard parts and various "speed parts", and then bolt it all together without measuring anything, and then hope it will work right. It's not cooking a stew with kitchen leftovers. It's a performance engine.

People wonder why all our stuff is designed to work with our other parts. And that we don't recommend using some eclectic concoction of "parts" from various disparate designers and sources who designed their "parts" while having no idea how some other unknown "parts" might interact with their "part", hoping it will somehow turn out right. It's because the engine is a system, and we understand that. So, we make systems.

To do a hodge-podge engine with "a piece from here, and a piece from there", the builder had better know what he is doing, and understand how to best implement the various parts to achieve the desired results. This is not always as easy as people think. Yes, it usually will achieve "some result", but rarely would it be a really good result, and never would it be optimal results.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on November 10, 2014, 05:37:44 pm
Tom, I am keeping an eye on the GT Head thread :) I really want it but I think I will talk to Sumant in detail about all this and see what can be done. I don't like how Custom/Shipping works in here. Previously a couple of parts got seized and lost one, I don't know whom to blame, when it comes to our Bangalore Customs :P So for getting anything like this I will have to ask my friends to get it from US which is pretty much possible. More than that I need to save up enough so that I can buy another motorcycle for touring and then work on the Enfield side by side and let it evolve.

About the mods, I am going to get it done from a place (If I do it) where they've done similar things in the past. My friend has access to Flow Bench, CNCs and other precision tools/machines so quality of work is not a problem here if we don't get the math wrong. Also, he's got some decades worth of experience so hoping it will go right. I am not so serious about the head swap but maybe once I am done churning out everything from my current bike, I will start investing time on a project like that. I might sound really stupid with this sort of head swap but it wort hurt me so I guess it's fine.

This is what I have been trying to get across to people for years. You can't "hodge-podge" a motor with a bunch of old scrap yard parts and various "speed parts", and then bolt it all together without measuring anything, and then hope it will work right. It's not cooking a stew with kitchen leftovers. It's a performance engine.

People wonder why all our stuff is designed to work with our other parts. And that we don't recommend using some eclectic concoction of "parts" from various disparate designers and sources who designed their "parts" while having no idea how some other unknown "parts" might interact with their "part", hoping it will somehow turn out right. It's because the engine is a system, and we understand that. So, we make systems.

I agree to all of this very much but I am not planning to mix and match old parts. Everything new or made to match either right out of the factory or made by our tuners here. Nothing cheap works out there  ;D
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on November 10, 2014, 05:47:19 pm
Okay. Just making sure.
I hear a lot of crazy engine building stories coming out of India!
In fact, I hear crazy engine building stories coming from all over the world, including here in the US.

With the UCE GT billet head, it would go right on, but you would need to adapt your external oiling line to be a single line to go into the oil temperature sensor location in the UCE head. And also drill/tap/plug the hole in the bottom of the head where the oil to the top end would normally come up from the UCE crankcase.
Not much to it. A carb will bolt right on to the UCE port entry. Same bolt spacing as the AVL and Iron Barrel manifold bolt spacing.

Should be a breeze!
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on November 10, 2014, 08:17:15 pm
Cast Iron Bullet into 500 AVL cases has been done by someone in Australia who got seriously fed up with his Electra-X having repeated failures (Norm on the Hitchcock's forum). The AVL con-rod is shorter than the C.I. so you'd need a longer rod to fit the AVL big end. This assumes you would keep the AVL crank and timing cover. It's probably also worth getting the AVL cam followers and guides replaced with C.I. items so you can use classic push rods. Not that I'm in any position to criticize hybrid engines ;D, but I think I'd really rather look at putting a separate C.I. Fireball engine together as it's a known package, and keep the ASBO AVL as it is, rather than change it all about again.

Having a bike which is in permanent project status can be a bit of a drag after a while, which is why I'm so looking forward to OldProj (ASBO12) being the finished (!) item with more poke and all the glitches laid to rest, or as much as they ever can be with one of these bikes.

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on November 10, 2014, 08:20:35 pm
As far as I can tell, Norm has given up on Bullets.
He has not been posting on the Aussie forum for quite a while now.
I think he's finished with them.
Too bad. He was the "go to" guy in Australia for a long time.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on November 11, 2014, 03:55:57 pm
Norm still posts on Hitchcock's forum.

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on December 05, 2014, 08:31:14 am
So here's a pic that I clicked last night when I was out for a spin. She's sort of a "Wanna-be" Scrambler now. Front and rear knobbies, got the seat done for the Cafe setup. Few more things to add.. like Clip-on bars and rear sets and I guess we'll be there (And a completely new and different front suspension!). Almost there  :P


Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: High On Octane on December 05, 2014, 11:55:51 am
So here's a pic that I clicked last night when I was out for a spin. She's sort of a "Wanna-be" Scrambler now. Front and rear knobbies, got the seat done for the Cafe setup. Few more things to add.. like Clip-on bars and rear sets and I guess we'll be there (And a completely new and different front suspension!). Almost there  :P

Looking good, except those stock bars do look out of place.  Also, is that a Thunderbird?  You will need to replace the headlight mounting ears with something else to make clip on bars work on your bike.  Perhaps a pair of Clubman bars can play the part for now?
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on December 05, 2014, 11:58:39 am
Looking good, except those stock bars do look out of place.  Also, is that a Thunderbird?  You will need to replace the headlight mounting ears with something else to make clip on bars work on your bike.  Perhaps a pair of Clubman bars can play the part for now?

That's a Machismo 500 with Renthal type bars for off-roading. Sort of a srambler now, can take jumps here and there, very agile. I know it doesn't go well but I am getting the rear sets done. It's hard to buy something off ebay as I don't know how they'll work. So the best option for me is to make a replica of what my friend uses on his bike. So once that rear sets are done, I am going with clip on bars. Can try clubman bars too but shipping is way too high (Like for a 40 USD part I would have to pay like 100 USD shipping which doesn't make any sense to me).
And yes the headlight is from Thunderbird so I am getting a smaller 5" headlight which we usually see in bobbers and cafes. So that would look good with the bars, I guess.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: High On Octane on December 05, 2014, 12:04:35 pm
That's a Machismo 500 with Renthal type bars for off-roading. Sort of a srambler now, can take jumps here and there, very agile. I know it doesn't go well but I am getting the rear sets done. It's hard to buy something off ebay as I don't know how they'll work. So the best option for me is to make a replica of what my friend uses on his bike. So once that rear sets are done, I am going with clip on bars. Can try clubman bars too but shipping is way too high (Like for a 40 USD part I would have to pay like 100 USD shipping which doesn't make any sense to me).
And yes the headlight is from Thunderbird so I am getting a smaller 5" headlight which we usually see in bobbers and cafes. So that would look good with the bars, I guess.

Really?!  $100 to ship handlebars?!    :o  Geesh.  As for the headlight, I was commenting on the mounts themselves, not so much the light.  Clip on bars clamp to the top portion of the fork legs between the triple trees.  You need a headlight mount that doesn't obstruct the entire portion of the fork leg there.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on December 05, 2014, 12:10:04 pm
Really?!  $100 to ship handlebars?!    :o  Geesh.  As for the headlight, I was commenting on the mounts themselves, not so much the light.  Clip on bars clamp to the top portion of the fork legs between the triple trees.  You need a headlight mount that doesn't obstruct the entire portion of the fork leg there.

Yea, I was going through some of the handle bars on Ebay. Looks like the trend is lower the item price to attract people and them slam them shipping charges on em  :o

Yes I get it, I will change the stays from sides and it will be a different setup which will be coming out right from the center part, via an attachment. Once that is done I will probably lower the bike by few inches too. Front and rear 18 and WP front suspension from the KTMs and shorter suspension @ the rear, matching the front. Still a lot needs to be done  :-X
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: High On Octane on December 05, 2014, 12:18:05 pm
Yea, I was going through some of the handle bars on Ebay. Looks like the trend is lower the item price to attract people and them slam them shipping charges on em  :o

Yes I get it, I will change the stays from sides and it will be a different setup which will be coming out right from the center part, via an attachment. Once that is done I will probably lower the bike by few inches too. Front and rear 18 and WP front suspension from the KTMs and shorter suspension @ the rear, matching the front. Still a lot needs to be done  :-X

I hear ya!  I keep thinking I'm almost done with my bike, but I still need to rebuild the right head, install a cafe seat pan, swap out to 16" wheels which means replacing the forks and swingarm and spacing the drive sprocket...  Blah blah blah.  :D
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on December 05, 2014, 12:19:04 pm
Story of our life  :'( ;D ;D
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on November 29, 2015, 07:01:01 am
Finally she's back home! Paul!! Thanks a ton, motor feels real good. Revs hard, quick and very dam peppy! I even forgot that I was breaking in with the new barrel and piston and revved past 7k rpm by mistake. Can't wait till the break in is done, I think I will give her some slack till 500kms and start riding it hard from them :D
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on November 29, 2015, 10:07:28 am
Great news, Sanket  8) ;D ;D
 It really is amazing, the transformation you get from these engines, with the 'S' cams and a few other, really quite basic modifications. I remember having done all the other mods - some probably not really needed - on that first Electra X and not really getting much improvement ... then the 'S' cams went in and we went straight into BSA B50 territory, I had to try full throttle a couple of times, just to make sure I wasn't dreaming. Great stuff, I am very pleased for you and 'Asbo' 13  8)
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on November 29, 2015, 05:14:13 pm
Sanket,

now go and upset some CGT owners!

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on November 29, 2015, 05:26:29 pm
Sanket,

now go and upset some CGT owners!

A.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on November 30, 2015, 05:11:03 am
Great news, Sanket  8) ;D ;D
 It really is amazing, the transformation you get from these engines, with the 'S' cams and a few other, really quite basic modifications. I remember having done all the other mods - some probably not really needed - on that first Electra X and not really getting much improvement ... then the 'S' cams went in and we went straight into BSA B50 territory, I had to try full throttle a couple of times, just to make sure I wasn't dreaming. Great stuff, I am very pleased for you and 'Asbo' 13  8)
 B.W.

Seriously it's hard to believe so much of a change by doing something which not many will encourage these days. Totally worth being an ASBO  8) Now I just need to get the break in done and head for the nearest track.

Sanket,

now go and upset some CGT owners!

A.

I did upset one while coming to work today, they don't like it at all, that's all I can say  ;D
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on November 30, 2015, 01:50:09 pm
Hmm, off to a good start, then!

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: armando_chavez on December 01, 2015, 04:43:25 pm
Ive been watching a lot of porting videos ive been thing about opening up the intake side a tiny bit and just mainly polishing it. probably not much gain but sounds like a fun project.  ive heard some people open the exhaust side up a bit too?
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Ice on December 01, 2015, 06:52:09 pm
 In general the port runners on Indian made heads are bigger than they need to be.  I'd hold off on any port work until I talked to ace cafe first.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on December 03, 2015, 05:52:13 am
Ive been watching a lot of porting videos ive been thing about opening up the intake side a tiny bit and just mainly polishing it. probably not much gain but sounds like a fun project.  ive heard some people open the exhaust side up a bit too?

I think Adrian has already ported his head to match a 36mm dellorto, so you can check with him. I am not sure if you'll loose any bottom end grunt tho.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on December 03, 2015, 08:15:22 am
I didn't touch the ports on the 103mph, 33.34bhp machine [I was asked not to].
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: High On Octane on December 03, 2015, 01:27:19 pm
Ive been watching a lot of porting videos ive been thing about opening up the intake side a tiny bit and just mainly polishing it. probably not much gain but sounds like a fun project.  ive heard some people open the exhaust side up a bit too?

FWIW  No-one polishes ports anymore.  In-fact it has been proven that a rougher surface atomizes fuel much more efficiently than a polished surface.  They found with polished ports, fuel droplets will actually stick to the side of the port instead of atomizing and traveling the full length into the combustion chamber.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on December 03, 2015, 01:46:00 pm
All depends on the goal.

If you don't plan to raise the rpm range, you can keep the same port diameter,  and do shape changes to increase velocity, do a proper valve job,  and use more of the available valve area.

If you have no flow bench, or have no experience at this, you are pretty much guaranteed to get it wrong.  If you grind it away in the wrong places, we cannot weld metal back in the ports easily because it is too small in there to get the welding torch in where it needs to go, and the air cooled heads get too hot there to reliably depend on epoxy filler in the ports.

So either leave it alone like BW says, or wait until you have the money to send it to someone who knows how to do it . Those are your best options.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on December 03, 2015, 09:45:05 pm
Quote
I think Adrian has already ported his head to match a 36mm dellorto, so you can check with him. I am not sure if you'll loose any bottom end grunt tho.

Both of my AVL engined bikes, the Electra-X and ASBO 12 run 36mm carbs, The Electra has a Mikuni TM36-31, ASBO 12 has the Dell'Orto which I still need to tune properly for top end performance. Bottom end performance/rideability on both is absolutely fine, I couldn't feel any deterioration when the Electra went from a 32 to the 36mm carb.

On both bikes all I have really done on the inlet side is to open up the port at the carb flange just enough to match the 36mm carbs, and blending the now 36mm round hole into the 32mm x 36mm oval section of the inlet tract along the depth of the flange, no deeper. Apart from cleaning up the rest of the inlet tract (OK, and some polishing on the Electra) that's it, the port shape is still fundamentally unchanged.

There's probably enough metal in the casting if some maniac wanted to take the inlet out to 38mm/1.5", but I very much doubt there would be anything to be gained. If, however, someone out there has pictures of an Electra-X, AVL Classic or 500 Machismo fitted with an Amal GP3 carburettor I'd love to see them! The GP's flange mounting hole centers aren't too far off those on the AVL heads, 63.5mm versus 60mm. I think I'd better stop there, or Bullet Whisperer might build one...  ;D

The EXHAUST ports on the 500 AVL heads are an absolute disgrace though and could use a good clean up if you are running with an un-restricted header pipe.

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: armando_chavez on December 06, 2015, 12:46:38 am
has anyone tried to use the uce flat top piston on the avl and cut the same dimension crown into it like the BW avl piston mods.  added compression and size = more powaa?
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: High On Octane on December 06, 2015, 02:05:29 pm
has anyone tried to use the uce flat top piston on the avl and cut the same dimension crown into it like the BW avl piston mods.  added compression and size = more powaa?

People are using the AVL piston in the UCE for a compression bump.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on December 06, 2015, 02:56:45 pm
As far as I know, the "UCE flat top piston " IS the AVL flat top piston.

You will need to pay attention to P to V clearance around TDC,  and you may need adjustable ignition.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: armando_chavez on December 06, 2015, 07:03:00 pm
sorry i meant the 535cc flat top
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: armando_chavez on December 06, 2015, 07:10:32 pm
also since the new GT head can be put on the avl
, what could we expect the power difference to be from and avl head fitted with big head high ratio roller rockers and an alv fitted with the GT head? isnt there a bullet still tuning with those rockers?
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: 1 Thump on December 06, 2015, 07:12:02 pm
also since the new GT head can be put on the avl
, what could we expect the power difference to be from and avl head fitted with big head high ratio roller rockers and an alv fitted with the GT head? isnt there a bullet still tuning with those rockers?

Out of curiosity, how much power do you want out of your AVL?
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on December 06, 2015, 07:24:16 pm
sorry i meant the 535cc flat top
That is the one that they use for the 535. The GT 535 piston is dished.

As for the differences in the GT head and the AVL head with mods, it depends on what work is done.
The big head roller rockers do not work in the AVL head, and will take up to a year to get developed.
The GT head needs a UCE exhaust pipe, and will need the external oil lines modified, at the very least. I have not figured out how much work might need to be done on the exhaust, or how well it can fit on the AVL.THat is up to the owner.

We can make whatever power level that you want, within reasonable expectations, out of either bike. Just bolting on unrelated products by different manufacturers is a guarantee of disaster.It is required to make careful selections of compatible products which are capable of working together to achieve the goals. If not, then you may end up with things that clash, or don't provide the desired results.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on June 07, 2016, 04:22:21 pm
Update -

So finally running in and everything else is done with Asbo, just need to dial in the MK2 36mm and take it out for a spin! but I noticed something recently and that is - After the compression bumping, a lot of oil is being pushed out of the breather. I did measure and it was around 400ml in about 10 days which I think is pretty high. The breather hose on the timing side is disconnected and no catch can- I made a home made version of the catch can using a cola bottle so I can keep things cleaner. So any idea what must be going wrong? I am clueless! :P
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: ace.cafe on June 07, 2016, 05:13:34 pm
High crankcase pressure.
Most likely the rings need more running in.

Duckbill on the breather hose wouldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on June 08, 2016, 01:16:59 am
Nearly there. Did you manage to remove the inner pipe from the exhaust header?

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on June 08, 2016, 07:36:07 am
High crankcase pressure.
Most likely the rings need more running in.

Duckbill on the breather hose wouldn't hurt.

I could get the duckbill in place but even with that I would be spitting out a lot of oil thats why the container. To save people off the muck :P

Nearly there. Did you manage to remove the inner pipe from the exhaust header?

A.

Yes, almost! But this breather is making my brains spill :P I did fix the inner tube but running the stock pipe now.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on June 08, 2016, 07:34:27 pm
Running the stock pipe WILL stop you getting the best from all the other improvements unless the restrictive inner is removed.

Hope you get your breather issue sorted.

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on July 14, 2016, 06:26:30 am
Yes Adrian, I have taken the inner tube out but probably I will build a header pipe of my own when I have some time. I jus hope the breather issue gets fixed.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on July 15, 2016, 12:10:52 am
PM sent.

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: mattjohnson207 on July 21, 2016, 05:14:48 am
Thanks sanket... JE piston forged...more details?  Almost ready to reassemble.  Needs piston. Have Ace's mondelo head.  I'll just take barrel to s harly. Machinist  to open up to a 535?   
       Too many questions.... Just basic wrenching knowledge..... Matt
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on August 16, 2016, 11:55:56 am
Finally the blow by screw up is sorted. Thanks to all of you who stopped me from burning this thing down! OK that was not necessary  ::)

But seriously! you guys have helped me a lot and to be honest Asbo13 wouldn't be what it is today!

Here's how Asbo13 looks as of now. New set of rings, new breather setup with duckbill till the tail and some more weight reduction.

@ A - Thanks a ton for your valuable advice! :)
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Adrian II on August 16, 2016, 03:23:26 pm
Nicely turned out, don't forget to post a copy of the picture up in the Photo Gallery somewhere!

What front-end have you fitted?

A.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: 1 Thump on August 16, 2016, 08:39:43 pm
Finally the blow by screw up is sorted. Thanks to all of you who stopped me from burning this thing down! OK that was not necessary  ::)

But seriously! you guys have helped me a lot and to be honest Asbo13 wouldn't be what it is today!

Here's how Asbo13 looks as of now. New set of rings, new breather setup with duckbill till the tail and some more weight reduction.

@ A - Thanks a ton for your valuable advice! :)


Thats a great looking bike right there. You should send it to bikeexif or pipeburn.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: heloego on August 16, 2016, 10:19:50 pm
Nice!

I'm curious what front end you fitted, too!
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: 1 Thump on August 16, 2016, 10:50:31 pm
KTM duke is a commonly swapped front end for the bullets. Looks like the one here is from  KTM duke.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: DanB on August 17, 2016, 03:21:09 am
Quote
Thats a great looking bike right there. You should send it to bikeexif or pipeburn.

+1
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on August 17, 2016, 07:10:27 am
Nicely turned out, don't forget to post a copy of the picture up in the Photo Gallery somewhere!

What front-end have you fitted?

A.

A - Thank you! and that's a WP front end off from a KTM Duke. It's 43mm and inverted, superior than the stock front end but it's fragile! Not as robust as the Enfield front. I keep blowing seals! Probably it's the sad pothole infested roads  :'(

Thats a great looking bike right there. You should send it to bikeexif or pipeburn.

Thanks ! I would want to but once I am done with the Fairing part but again, I would be so tensed to even approach them, considering the fact there are so many good builders who've put many hours behind their build compared to mine. I mean it's so scary! :D

Nice!

I'm curious what front end you fitted, too!

It's a WP 43mm off from a KTM - Here's a pic - (http://i0.wp.com/www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/KTM-RC390-03.jpg)

It isn't the best but for sure better, atleast better handling in terms of high speed cornering, when compared with stock RE front.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on December 03, 2016, 09:59:32 am
First official Saturday Sprint by Asbo 13 - Probably the best anti-depressant and antibiotic for me.

Here's a some footage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC1f5hHjpDg

@Paul - Without you?? this one was very much impossible. This motor is so much more fun now and I haven't even retarded the cam timing yet, so more fun soon! :)

Note - I know there is no real soundtrack for this video. The reason was insanely high amount of noise due to wind and vibration. Next attempt, handle bar mount.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on December 03, 2016, 11:13:23 am
Looks to be going VERY well  8) 8) 8) Don't fancy all that traffic much, mind  :o
 B.W.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on December 03, 2016, 11:20:37 am
Almost there Paul, almost! and yea, typical trafiic from the City to Airport.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: tooseevee on December 03, 2016, 12:49:11 pm
First official Saturday Sprint by Asbo 13 - Probably the best anti-depressant and antibiotic for me.

Here's a some footage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC1f5hHjpDg


           Enjoyed the video and I'm sure glad it's you and not me putting up with that traffic.
           I tried one of those lawnmower tachs for a while and couldn't stand watching the numbers jump around any more. Had to get rid of it. Couldn't seem to keep from watching the damn numbers jump around while riding.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on December 03, 2016, 01:07:02 pm
Thanks! Would have been even better with the exhaust note in place, anyways, next time I guess. You're also right about the traffic, man! Indians love making out and here's the result (Population boom).
About the Tach - I needed something urgently and something that works accurately, I do get your point about the jumping figures, luckily for me it was fine.
Title: Re: Performance Mods for AVL 500 (Machismo 500)
Post by: AVL Power! on December 05, 2016, 06:41:23 am
Looks to be going VERY well  8) 8) 8) Don't fancy all that traffic much, mind  :o
 B.W.

BTW Paul, you were right! The exhaust gasket is very restrictive. Mine blew up, so I am using a Husqvarna's exhaust gasket as we had one lying in the garage, it's a little smaller in Diameter and I could feel the struggle for revs. Even with that.. I could manage till 6000+ rpm in 4th gear. Have a dremel @ home already and a dozen AVL exhaust gaskets! The fun begins this weekend. Will keep you posted!
Title: Re: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on December 16, 2016, 12:25:25 am
I like the name change to this thread  ;D
 As I have maintained since 2008, just about everything required to crack the 'Ton' is already present in the standard machines. The cams are the main hurdle and it is not hard to change them.
 Here is 'Asbo' 11, with shortened barrel, modified piston, 'S' cams and upgrade CDI [TCI] box - the fast stuff is in the last couple of minutes, but I didn't go flat out, just in case - let's leave that to the owner - it only came in for some servicing!
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obBjjB4nPiw&t=1s
Title: Re: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: AVL Power! on December 16, 2016, 06:18:05 am
I like the name change to this thread  ;D
 As I have maintained since 2008, just about everything required to crack the 'Ton' is already present in the standard machines. The cams are the main hurdle and it is not hard to change them.
 Here is 'Asbo' 11, with shortened barrel, modified piston, 'S' cams and upgrade CDI [TCI] box - the fast stuff is in the last couple of minutes, but I didn't go flat out, just in case - let's leave that to the owner - it only came in for some servicing!
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obBjjB4nPiw&t=1s

Asbo#11 looks good! :) and yea you were right from day 1 about the AVLs and it looks like "Sky is the limit for performance mods on a Royal Enfield". Something I learnt from your videos. I wish I had a better TCI but I think I will get there eventually. Yet to try out the GS125s Ignition unit but I remember reading something about someone trying it and not working so still a little skeptical but sometimes I guess we just need to say "Eff it and do it", I guess I will do the same and follow A's instructions like he had posted before and break my head over it, till it's dialed in right :D
Title: Re: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: Adrian II on December 16, 2016, 06:04:19 pm
It was tooseevee who recently tried a GS125 TCI box unsuccessfully, but I suspect it was a pattern part by this time rather than a Suzuki original. They're cheap enough to experiment with, however.

A.
Title: Re: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: AVL Power! on December 16, 2016, 08:36:09 pm
It was tooseevee who recently tried a GS125 TCI box unsuccessfully, but I suspect it was a pattern part by this time rather than a Suzuki original. They're cheap enough to experiment with, however.

A.

So I still have a chance left on this :P I remember we shared some part numbers of Ebay remember? You think those were stock and genuine suzuki parts? Around 50 USD for Ignition coil and the TCI or CDI
Title: Re: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: tooseevee on December 16, 2016, 11:57:34 pm
So I still have a chance left on this :P I remember we shared some part numbers of Ebay remember? You think those were stock and genuine suzuki parts? Around 50 USD for Ignition coil and the TCI or CDI

             This has me thinking now what should I go to if the so-called "green" TCI on my '08 AVL craps out. It has worked really, really well for me so far, but......

              Once these new units, (such as TCIs), that are solidly embedded in a block of epoxy, have been used for a while and function fine, do they just then go on forever (pretty much?). Sort of? Or not?   :) ;) :) :)
Title: Re: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: Adrian II on December 17, 2016, 02:21:56 am
Maybe not for ever but hopefully for the life of the bike!

For reference it was this one (yes I know the listing says CDI but it's TCI!), you get a coil thrown in with it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191419561633?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Quote
The exhaust gasket is very restrictive. Mine blew up, so I am using a Husqvarna's exhaust gasket as we had one lying in the garage, it's a little smaller in Diameter and I could feel the struggle for revs. Even with that.. I could manage till 6000+ rpm in 4th gear. Have a dremel @ home already and a dozen AVL exhaust gaskets!

Why do you even bother with them? Ordinary bathroom silicone RTV sealant out of a big tube works fine on ASBO12, it doesn't need to be a special high temperature grade, just get the exhaust port and the pipe stub scrupulously clean, don't be mean with the application and all will be well.

A.
Title: Re: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: AVL Power! on December 20, 2016, 05:54:19 am
Maybe not for ever but hopefully for the life of the bike!

For reference it was this one (yes I know the listing says CDI but it's TCI!), you get a coil thrown in with it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191419561633?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Why do you even bother with them? Ordinary bathroom silicone RTV sealant out of a big tube works fine on ASBO12, it doesn't need to be a special high temperature grade, just get the exhaust port and the pipe stub scrupulously clean, don't be mean with the application and all will be well.

A.

Yep, that's the one. I think I will give it a try, no harm in trying things out. If I hadn't then I wouldn't have known you guys nor the KickAss BW build :)

About the exhaust gasket - I get your point but just for starters, can you tell me the ID of the exhaust gasket? If that's not too much of a hassle :)
Title: Re: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: AVL Power! on June 12, 2017, 10:51:49 am
Update on Asbo#13

So after good 10,000 kms of stable run and countless redlining, ASBO 13 finally went out touring. We did Bangalore-Kodaikanal-Bangalore road trip, just to visit the nearest mountains and be out there in the open, it was approximately 1200 kms or so. My motorcycle had around 50kgs of luggage which was causing some weird sort of wobble at high speeds but even with all that, Asbo 13 maintained a decent 130kph speed on GPS on flat straights without any issues, no where close to the redline. When we climbed past 6k ft altitude, there were minor sputters but that got fixed by itself once we went past a decent strip of mad hill climb.

Right before the trip, I had retarded the inlet cam. She pulls hard but around the mid-range there is a weird power loss, maybe I need to get a richer needle jet.

Here are some photos from the trip -

Right outside our cottage, ladies taking their share of power nap  8)
(http://i.imgur.com/ovWzwML.jpg)

View from our back yard. We had permission to ride thru the terrain till the hills ,that can be seen but we were friggin tired!
(http://i.imgur.com/4HT3OGE.jpg)

This is after completing a 80km hill climb with countless hairpins. The KTM had issues with coolant overflowing from all sides and the Thunderbird was pretty tired, so was Asbo13's owner!
(http://i.imgur.com/W7t51qv.jpg)

For some, who're still wondering if the AVLs can go fast or not? Ask Mr Whisperer  8) 8) 8)




Title: Re: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: Bullet Whisperer on June 12, 2017, 04:00:51 pm
Great stuff !   8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
 B.W.
Title: Re: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: Adrian II on June 12, 2017, 05:13:17 pm
As those who persevere with the AVL/Electra-X Bullets discover sooner or later, there is a real motorcycle in there somewhere. You've just got to find it...

Nice to see the overseas ASBO franchise is working well, Sanket, have you followed B.W.'s latest exploits with a CGT?

A.

Title: Re: Paul Henshaw's Machismo 500/AVL ton-up/High Revving build - This one works!
Post by: AVL Power! on June 13, 2017, 06:26:11 am
As those who persevere with the AVL/Electra-X Bullets discover sooner or later, there is a real motorcycle in there somewhere. You've just got to find it...

Nice to see the overseas ASBO franchise is working well, Sanket, have you followed B.W.'s latest exploits with a CGT?

A.



Yep! I am following his thread. We have a bunch of UCEs going through performance mods but I guess fixing the squish really helps a lot. The UCEs here run on carbs mostly, since the EFIs fail a lot here, thanks to the fuel pumps.

@A - I will be following your footsteps, with no gasket. Hoping for more revs!

Thanks a ton folks! Without you guys this would be just another Royal Enfield :)