[SteveThackery]

Maybe those engineers realised long ago that if they let slip that a simple device was so effective, their sweet, sweet funding will dry up and they'll have to get real jobs.

Oh, here we go: it's all a big conspiracy.  😂

Improvements in fuel efficiency, smooth running and emissions provide a manufacturer with a powerful market advantage. Their R&D departments will lose funding if they DON'T deliver innovations, not if they do.

The need for continuous improvement and innovation never goes away, so there will never be a time when research and development can be switched off. The idea that a simple device like the fin will somehow be the end point for engine development, and there will be nothing more to do after it, is beyond laughable.

And what on earth makes you think that working at Ricardo, Rotax, etc, are not real jobs?  I wonder how well you would do at the leading edge of internal combustion research.

[SteveThackery]

Since when? Subjective evidence is all there is in some science. A mental health specialist can't bring out a Head Dyno and measure why a person is feeling the way they do. Maybe a dumb analogy but it's the first thing I thought of.

It's a good point you make and you are right - in some fields the evidence inevitably has a subjective aspect. I should have taken more time to explain the role of such evidence in science.

It's important to distinguish between objective and subjective evidence.  An analogy might be useful. Take this question, for example:

----------

"What percentage of people believe in God?"

"The percentage of people who believe in God varies significantly by region. Here's an approximate breakdown:

North America: 73%
Europe: 51%
Latin America: 90%
Sub-Saharan Africa: 93%
Middle East and North Africa: 86%
Asia-Pacific: 74%
World Average: 84%

These percentages are based on various surveys and studies, so the exact numbers can vary depending on the specific source and methodology used."

----------

Those percentages are objective data - scientifically valid and reproducible.  However, they do NOT provide any evidence for the existence of God. That is the crucial point. If someone says they feel God at work in their lives, that is subjective data: it is something they feel.  There is no objective, scientific test we can carry out to see if God does actually exist.

Even though the evidence for the existence of God is 100% subjective, we can count the number of people who believe it, and that number is objective data.

It's a bit like that now with the fin. So far, all the evidence for its effectiveness is subjective. We could count the number of people who believe it works, and that number would be objective data, but like the existence of God, it does not and cannot tell us if it really does work. 

There's no scientific test available to us for the existence of God, but there is one available for the effectiveness of the fin: an engine test bed with dynamometer, exhaust gas analyser, etc.

Right now the answer to the question "Does the fin do what the inventor claims?" is totally subjective and therefore we don't know if it works. When there is some objective evidence available (eg a dyno run) then we will know for sure one way or the other.

One last point.  Subjective evidence isn't sufficient from a scientific point of view, and that is what matters to me and many others. We need to see objective evidence before we believe something. However, for other people - including yourself - subjective evidence IS sufficient.  That's totally fine - nobody is criticising you.

The whole point of this lengthy conversation is to inform future readers that currently there is no objective evidence that the fin works, but there is some subjective evidence.  That's all!  They can then decide for themselves whether the evidence is sufficiently convincing.

[rattonshaw]

The point well made.

[gizzo]

And what on earth makes you think that working at Ricardo, Rotax, etc, are not real jobs?  I wonder how well you would do at the leading edge of internal combustion research.

You're serious, aren't you? You are utterly incapable of identifying when people are making fun.

[Haggis]

Suzuki think the fins should go the other way?

[SteveThackery]

You're serious, aren't you? You are utterly incapable of identifying when people are making fun.

Bullshit! This is what you wrote:

"Maybe those engineers realised long ago that if they let slip that a simple device was so effective, their sweet, sweet funding will dry up and they'll have to get real jobs."

If that's "making fun" then I need to tell you: mate, you are no comedian.

I think you've changed your mind since you first posted it and are now claiming it was a joke.  The conspiracy theory that technological advances are being suppressed because of vested interests - money, keeping your job, whatever - is rife everywhere and it's obvious you are one of the believers.

Anyway, enough of the ad hominems - they have no place here and contribute nothing.  Let's not continue them any further.

[SteveThackery]

Suzuki think the fins should go the other way?

Interesting! I haven't seen this sort of thing before. It would be interesting to find out exactly what it does, how and why.  The little slot in the middle is interesting; it seems to be in line with the idle circuit opening so the fuel can pass into the inlet tract without being blocked.

[Haggis]

Steve, it was something to do with slow speed running I think. It was there to cause turbulence at the bottom of the manifold to help atomise any fuel that was pooling at the bottom of the manifold.

[Adrian II]

Carburettors rather than EFI, but this seems to be a very different take.

http://www.motocarb.com/ufo-insert.html

A.

[TrianglePete]

   The 5th day in a row that the air is unhealthy to breath..  I got a younger person to do my food shopping

because when outside my chest hurts from breathing.  I think it's time we take responsibility for the amount of

Greenhouse gasses we put into our environment.  We should be doing more as mechanical tinkerers.

     Never have I made any claims of added HP.   Instead of spending extra on Hi-Test  make Reg E-10 your friend.

Lower emissions, better mileage  and drive ability.   

[SteveThackery]

Carburettors rather than EFI, but this seems to be a very different take.

http://www.motocarb.com/ufo-insert.html

A.

Interestingly it seems to reduce the amount of turbulence in the venturi.

I am very sceptical for two reasons. Firstly, Mikuni are seriously good at making carburettors - up there with the very best. So if a simple plastic insert can have such a beneficial effect, why don't they fit them themselves?  There's no way they would give away such a performance boost for such a little investment, surely?

Secondly, we once again have zero objective evidence; just claims and unsubstantiated "explanations".

I want to emphasise: being sceptical is NOT being disbelieving. I'm just really puzzled why Mikuni don't fit something similar themselves at manufacture.

[SteveThackery]

     Never have I made any claims of added HP.   

Those other claims are completely subjective, too, with not one jot of objective data.

Like I've said, some people are content with subjective claims and anecdotes. I hope they buy your fin and feel happy. 

For me and others, though, we want something we can trust: some objective data.  That's how science works, and there is no better system for seeking the truth than science.

[gizzo]

Bullshit! This is what you wrote:

"Maybe those engineers realised long ago that if they let slip that a simple device was so effective, their sweet, sweet funding will dry up and they'll have to get real jobs."

If that's "making fun" then I need to tell you: mate, you are no comedian.

I think you've changed your mind since you first posted it and are now claiming it was a joke.  The conspiracy theory that technological advances are being suppressed because of vested interests - money, keeping your job, whatever - is rife everywhere and it's obvious you are one of the believers.

Anyway, enough of the ad hominems - they have no place here and contribute nothing.  Let's not continue them any further.

Wow. You are a strange cat.

But no. If I was 'Murican, I'd have to say you're bang on. But I'm not. I'm Australian. Taking the piss is a cultural characteristic of my people.