[Hillbillythumper]

I have the bike of the topic. The alternator quit working. My dealer doesn’t have one and doesn’t know if he can even get one. He gave me the part number and I got one from India via eBay. I have the part. It came with the rotor which appears different from the one on my bike. The wiring on the stator appears the same but is too short and the connector is a different configuration. Question: if I extend the wires and install the correct plug is there any reason this unit won’t work for me?

[AzCal Retred]

What exactly do you mean when you say the alternator quit working? Your machine doesn't keep the battery charged? This appears to be a 3-phase alternator system that feeds a Regulator/Rectifier assembly. The Alternator on the machine puts out AC via the 3 yellow wires, driven by the permanent magnet crank mounted rotor. All 3 coils would need to fail or the rotor magically became demagnetized for the "alternator" to have no AC output. This is an unlikely, but possible, failure mode.

If the machine can start & run on a charged up battery, you need to check the AC coming from the yellow leads to the Reg/Rec. It will likely be 16 - 25 VAC lead to lead and probably all reading within 10% or each other. No "ground" reference. If you have AC here, the issue is likely the Reg/Rec unit. Hitchcoch's carry these - check to see if this one looks like yours.
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/35998?qty=1&continue_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com%2Fpartsbook-pages%2F5526

Replacing the entire rotor/stator has to be like for like. Many inputs go directly to the ECU, they HAVE TO BE the correct magnitude, crank angular position, etc., as they tell the ECU where the crankshaft is at any given moment. All of the rotor knobbies, every wire, everything needs to be the same OR you need to be well versed in exactly how the rotor & stator interface with the ECU.

An alternator system issue is likely the Reg/Rec, as the actual coils and rotor are fairly robust items. The Reg/Rec is like all electronic "black boxes", good for 3 seconds or 30 years, failing at random.

Download the manual from Hitchcock's & look at the wiring diagram. Maybe someone here has a clearer drawing? If it is just a charging issue, get the appropriate Reg/Rec from H's and change bike shops.

PS - Attach clear, close up photo's of what you have on the bike & what you received from India, that will help the actual UCE Guru's here ID the hardware and better assist you.

[Hillbillythumper]

I mean the measured output from any lead from the alternator ranges fro 0-5 volts. Measured directly between leads. No shorts to ground and the input to the battery is zero.

[AzCal Retred]

You are measuring only the yellow alternator AC leads, yes? There are a lot of wires coming out of that area. Pictures?

If it's running, and you are measuring the AC leads, on the AC scale, they have to have more than 16 volts to allow for voltage diff between the rec/reg intake and the regulated 14VDC DC output.

Do you have the tools to remove the rotor? Either the rotor is demagnetized, the stator coils are burned up or the wires are damaged exiting the cases.

You should be able to read the coil combined resistance lead to lead. It may be only one or two ohms, but it should be the same on all pairs and open to ground. The same resistance value across each pair implies that they are either all OK or all failed identically, a low probability event.

The rotor is tricky, but with it off & in your hand a steel tool (hack saw blade?) should stick firmly to each internal magnet segment. But without another unit to compare to, not a definitive test. With the rotor off you'll also be able to see the stator coils. They shouldn't look "cooked", just clean varnished/epoxied copper. If a stout magnet swings past an intact coil, it'll make as-designed voltage.

Hitchcock's is a great parts & info source. E-mail them about stator/rotor part access.

These EFI/EMS machines need 1:1 replacement parts, they are built as a system. Swapping unmatched rotor/stator bits needs a lot of specialized knowledge, you do not want to inadvertently zorch the pricey ECU and/or other associated bits.

[Haggis]

I mean the measured output from any lead from the alternator ranges fro 0-5 volts. Measured directly between leads. No shorts to ground and the input to the battery is zero.

You need to measure across pairs of yellow wires for A/C voltage.
Make sure your meter is set to a/c.
You need to also check the resistance across each pair, 0.8 to 1.5 ohms.
There are only three yellows plus two others for the crank position sensor.
These are the connectors on my euro3 C5.

[Hillbillythumper]

Yes My meter was set to AC. There are only 5 wires. 2 to the CKP (white and green) plus 3 yellow AC leads. The replacement rotor/stator has a connector like the picture. My bike has 3 leads but the connector is configured differently. I have a pic of the stator but not the rotor. I made a rotor puller on my lathe, so I can pull the rotor.

[Haggis]

Did you measure the resistance across each pair of yellows?
(0.8 to 1.50 ohms.)
As the three yellow output an ac voltage it doesn't matter which order they are connected to the three ac inputs on the R/R.
You should be able to remove the male spades from the connector block and refit them into your old connector.
Assuming the wires are long enough.

[Hillbillythumper]

Yes I measured resistance between leads. It read lower than book value but not hugely as correct resistance is very low anyway. About .3 ohms if I recall.
Wires are shorter than mine by 8 inches as my regulator is behind the electrical box behind the battery. I will have to solder splices and seal via shrink tube.

[Freddy1]

Your stator looks good, not cooked, not overheated. If the resistance of the three windings is about 0.3 ohm it is ok (it is impossible that "all" are short-circuited!).
So your stator should be okay and the rotor cannot be completely demagnetized in such a short time.
If you haven't already, try measuring the alternating current between the yellow wires with the connector "disconnected" from the RR.
Are you sure your multimeter works well in AC?

PS: however the replacement alternator should work without problems, and there is no risk of damaging the ECU (only the cranck position sensor is connected to the ECU)

[Freddy1]

I forgot: remember to replace the oil pump o-ring !!

[richard211]

I have the bike of the topic. The alternator quit working. My dealer doesn’t have one and doesn’t know if he can even get one. He gave me the part number and I got one from India via eBay. I have the part. It came with the rotor which appears different from the one on my bike. The wiring on the stator appears the same but is too short and the connector is a different configuration. Question: if I extend the wires and install the correct plug is there any reason this unit won’t work for me?

Would you be able to let us know what the part number the dealer provided was, as well as the photos of the rotor and stator you received off eBay. I suspect the part off eBay could be from the UCE carburetor model.

[Haggis]

They moved the R/R around on different years.
Mine are under the seat with around 8 inches of wire.
Newer ones are mounted on the rear of the electrics box, not sure how much cable they have?

[Hillbillythumper]

I have measured the voltage between the yellow leads directly from the alternator. 0-5 volts max. With the engine running. I know the stator looks alright, but it ain’t putting out any power. My multimeter is sophisticated and brand new. It works in AC. I checked it on wall current.

[AzCal Retred]

If the magnets in the new rotor feel "stronger" than the OEM unit, the new rotor ID id the same as the old unit, the same depth to clear the coils, and the "nubbies" on the outside of the rotor are of the same total count & in the same places relative to the keyway, that should work. If it was a bad coil the voltages should have been different.

[Hillbillythumper]

Well that is a problem. There are nubbies on my current rotor there are NO nubbies on the replacement rotor. The stators appear the same. The CKP seems identical but the replacement rotor has no nubbies.

[Hillbillythumper]

I just went back and looked at the eBay listing from Endfield country. Their picture shows nibs on the rotor. The rotor they sent has no nibs. The part number the dealer gave me is 570862. The eBay listing quotes that part number.

[Hillbillythumper]

The part number is 570862. The eBay listing references that part number. Their picture shows nibs on the rotor. The rotor they sent me has no nibs.

[Haggis]

The rotor with only one nib is for older bikes, not efi.
Although it can be retro fitted if you swap over to a carb.
Your modern efi needs the one with multiple nibs, 18 I think?
Also hitchcocks say 570862 is superceded by part number 572362.
But that's for euro 3 bikes.
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/s.nl?ext=F&sc=1&category=&search=570862

A search through parts lists shows euro4 bikes to use,
Flywheel Magento Assy ( 18-1 PIP)
SKU: 571282/B

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/35991

[AzCal Retred]

...and that's why I don't buy deep motor or important parts from India...

Here's pix of the two rotors. On H's site, Haggis part number of 571282/B returned this: 571282
No "superceeded" info was attached. A quick e-mail to Hitchcocks should provide clarity & reassurance.
Most stuff I order from H's is "door to door" in 4-6 days and you actually get what you ordered.
Once you figure out what you actually received from India, you can always sell it on e-bay.

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/41078
PART No. 572362 ; Replaces 570862
FLYWHEEL MAGNETO ASSY. WITH 5MM DIA STATOR MTG HOLE ; £169.40 ( x 1.3 = $220 USD )

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/35991
PART No. 571282 (searched as 571282/B ) ; FLYWHEEL MAGNETO ASSEMBLY (18-1 PIP) (EURO-4 B5 C5 Models) ; £165.00

[Haggis]

As I said, its part 570862 that has been superceded.
As his bike is a euro4 he will require 571282.

[Guaire]

The part number is 570862. The eBay listing references that part number. Their picture shows nibs on the rotor. The rotor they sent me has no nibs.

Hillbillythumper - I would get in touch with Tim Hirdler. He ran RE's parts for the USA before RENA. I believe he would know the different generations of parts and what fits what.

https://westerncyclesupply.com

[Hillbillythumper]

Thanks Gentlemen. I will contact western cycle supply. This has been frustrating but I want my bike back on the road. It only has 4000 miles on it.

[axman88]

The part number is 570862. The eBay listing references that part number. Their picture shows nibs on the rotor. The rotor they sent me has no nibs.

Ask for a refund.  "Item received does not match picture / description" is likely going to be sufficient grounds to get you a refund, without even shipping the rotor back.

If the parts physically fit, I might be interested in giving those unwanted parts a new home.  I'd like to accumulate all the parts I'd need to kick my Euro 3 C5's ECU to the curb, just for fun.

It is concerning that you are measuring less than 5 volts across pairs of yellow alternator phase wires.   When I ran this test on my 1999, single phase Bullet alternator, seems like I was getting voltages in the high 30s VAC range, tested open circuit and revved up a bit.  You tested with the rect/reg connected, or open circuit?

[Hillbillythumper]

I tested the alternator leads open circuit.

[richard211]

The part number 571282/B has been superseded by 571282/C.

[Hillbillythumper]

Well guys, I got the correct alternator for my bike (as far as I can tell) from Tim at Western Cycle supply and carefully installed it. I have no spark. Resistance of CKP is 208 ohms, same as the original. Showing output with kick starter. Cannot find any bad connections. Fuel pump pressures up and motor cranks normally but not so much as a pop. Pulled plug and cranked with starter. No spark. Tearing my hair out any suggestions?

[viczena]

Measure the line that goes to the spark coil (if possible  with an oscilloskope). If you get signal, change coil. If you dont have signal, check fuses. If everything is right, change ECU.

[Hillbillythumper]

I don’t have oscilloscope. I do have a fairly elaborate multi meter. Will it be a 12 volt signal? Is there no way to check the ECU?
I checked the fuses.

[Hillbillythumper]

By the way I checked the fuses.

[viczena]

Check if the coil even gets voltage. That is the first step.

Did you get error messages from the ECU?

[Hillbillythumper]

There is no error message save for faulty CKP but that was from months ago and without the expensive software cannot be wiped from memory. No other codes. Engine fault lamp not lit. Will pull the tank (damn) and check voltage to coil tomorrow.

[Freddy1]

If with the new alternator there is no more spark, the new Crank Position Sensor may not work properly. We should check if there is a signal from the CPS.

[Haggis]

You can clear old codes,

The MIL (Engine Light) performs three functions:
   A) When the key is switched “ON” the first (and hopefully ONLY) illumination verifies the ECU is booting up, and then goes “off”. The engine is then ready to start.
   B) If it illuminates and remains “on” before or during a ride it indicates a fault and corrective action is necessary.
   C) When troubleshooting with the engine “off”, if it illuminates again after a few seconds it will provide a series of Long and Short blinks to indicate a service code for troubleshooting. (Refer to the Troubleshooting section of the MM for what the codes represent.)
   NOTE: There may be more than one issue (code), but the ECU will only show the latest code.

Once a service code is determined and (hopefully) resolved:
1.   Ground diagnostic wire (the single wire with a female bullet connector next to the ECU) to a clean part of the chassis, or to the Negative side of the battery.
2.   Set the kill switch to the run position.
3.   Hold the throttle fully open.
4.   Turn the key on. MIL light will illuminate for a few seconds.
5.   As soon as the MIL light goes out (NOT before), and before the MIL comes on again, release the throttle.
6.   There will be a couple fast blinks after that to let you know the code(s) are cleared.

   Now run the engine. If no Codes are present ride the bike and monitor the MIL for any further codes. The MIL will illuminate and remain steady if any further faults appear.

Have you checked the sidestand switch?
If in doubt just unplug it's connector.
Also the kill switch. You need to check for continuity through the switch, otherwise,  NO spark.

[Hillbillythumper]

Thanks Haggis. My Hanes manual is lacking in much information. The motor cranks. If sidestand is down it will not crank. I cleared the CKP code as you said and cranked the engine. Still no spark. No codes show up either. Manual gives no CKP test save for resistance. Can it be dynamically tested?

[Hillbillythumper]

The thing about all these plastic connectors is that they get very brittle in cold weather. It is cold here. As soon as I pressed the catch securing the cpu the thing just broke off. Ugh.

[Hillbillythumper]

Ok I found on the web how to check a CKP with multimeter. I managed a dynamic test with the starter. I showed .9 volt output so it seems the sensor is working.
Kill switch has continuity.

[Haggis]

Not much left to check.
Coil would have be next on the list.
Coil check,
Resistance across,
a. Between Brown to Red/white 4 to 8
ohms.
b. Between Brown to HT lead 12.5 to 16
Kilo Ohms.

[Hillbillythumper]

Pulled the tank. Resistance between brown to red/white 5 ohms. Resistance twixt brown and plug lead 17.6 kilo ohms. While cranking the voltage between the feed wires to coil connector is zero.
However, with ignition on voltage between blue feed and ground is 5.3 volts. Between red wire and ground is 11.5 volts ignition on but not cranking.

[Haggis]

The coil is fed from the power relay along with the ecu and the pump relay.
As far as I can figure out, the ecu is an earth switch for the other coil connection.
So, ignition on should see battery voltage at one of the coil connectors. The other is a switching earth controlled by the ecu, pin 18.

[Hillbillythumper]

If I understand how a coil works it seems like the one lead should have battery voltage but the other lead should go to earth. Why would it show 5 volts to earth continuously?

[Hillbillythumper]

Getting the impression my ECU is junk.

[Freddy1]

I say right away that this is not a joke: you can check empirically if the CKP is working by listening to the noise of the petrol pump.

When everything is ok after the power-on you will hear the noise of the petrol pump for about 3/4 seconds and then the pump stops. Subsequently, the petrol pump resumes operation when the engine rotate. It is the CKP that signals to the ECU that the engine rotate.

Example: if I disconnect the spark plug in my Bullet EFI and try to start with the kick-start obviously the engine does not start but I hear the noise of the fuel pump which starts and then stops immediately and restarts every time I activate the kick start.
If I also disconnect CKP I hear the noise of the pump at power-on but I no longer hear it when I activate the kick-start.

ps: the wiring diagram posted by Haggis is for euro 3 does not correspond to your bike which should be euro 4.

[Haggis]

I forgot that.
Yes as Freddie says, If you switch on  the ignition and turn the engine by kick-start,
 you should hear the pump run for a few seconds every time the crank passes TDC.

Also, although my diagram is for euro3, your coil is still wired up the same and works the same.

You also mentioned that you are reading 11.5v on the red wire? (battery voltage)
11.5 is a flat battery
You need to be seeing over 12.5.
Euro4 looks like,

[Hillbillythumper]

Thanks Freddie 1, will make this test this pm.
Yes Haggis, put the battery on the charger all night. Thanks.

[Hillbillythumper]

Well Haggis and Freddie 1 I had to work so didn’t get the tank on for the CKP test. I did charge my battery and got the following voltages:
Key off.
Battery voltage =12.78 V.
Key on and lights on.
Red wire to coil to earth 11.75V.
Blue wire to coil to earth 5.25 V.
Blue to red 0.0V.
Doesn’t seem right.

[Haggis]

The ecu feeds 5v to some of the sensors.
Looks like your reading that when you are checking between blue and earth.

[Hillbillythumper]

Maybe so. And that would be a fault, no?

[Haggis]

No, as the sensors are earthing back through the ecu, which is what you are measuring.
Disconect the blue wire from the coil and run a separate piece of wire from earth and briefly touch it against the connector on the coil.
The spark plug should spark when you make and break this connection.

[Freddy1]

Well Haggis and Freddie 1 I had to work so didn’t get the tank on for the CKP test. I did charge my battery and got the following voltages:
Key off.
Battery voltage =12.78 V.
Key on and lights on.
Red wire to coil to earth 11.75V.
Blue wire to coil to earth 5.25 V.
Blue to red 0.0V.
Doesn’t seem right.

 

With key off battery voltage is 12.78 volts and with key on and light on is 11.78 volts, this is fair and normal.

If red wire to coil to earth is 11.75V. and blue wire to coil to earth is 5.25 V., the voltage between red wire e blu wire are 6.5 V. (impossible 0.0 V.)
However it is not clear to me: are the two coil wires blue and red or brown and white / red?

[Hillbillythumper]

The two wires feeding to the coil connector are red and blue. When I put the probes across them it shows zero volts.

[Hillbillythumper]

Haggis,
I will do this but since both wires connect with the same connector I will have to rig up some kind of bridge wire. I cannot connect them individually.

[Haggis]

Just been out to check my bike.
2018 C5 but it's a euro3, no abs.
Wires to the coil are light brown, plus  white with a red tracer.
With ignition ON, W/R shows battery voltage=12.7v
Brown= 0.05v

Mil light stays on when the coil is unplugged.

I did not measure across the two wires as I did not want to send my 12.7v down the brown wire to the ecu.

[Hillbillythumper]

Haggis,
In potential mode your multimeter should not transfer power, but only measure potential.

[Hillbillythumper]

Well Haggis, Freddie 1,
I reinstalled the tank and kicked the motor over and the fuel pump does indeed run for a second at every kick. So it appears CKP is functioning. Key on, of course.
To spark test the coil, because of the tiny connector, I will have to dismount it and take it to the work bench.

[Hillbillythumper]

Well gentlemen, I pulled the tank and the coil off and wired the coil up with test leads on the bench and got good spark. Coil is good. Thoughts?

[viczena]

Broken ECU. Now is the time to plug in the big tester and check all main outputs with an oscilloscope.

Before that: Did you change the spark plug and the spark cap?

[Haggis]

CPS fine and coil fine.👍

I would be looking at what you have disturbed when you we're changing the alternator.
A loose connection or broken wire somewhere?
 

[Hillbillythumper]

Viczina,
I bench tested the coil with the original lead, cap, and spark plug.

Haggis, seems unlikely. Most of the wires run along the top tube. Nowhere near the alternator wires. I was quite careful with the wires. Already looked them over twice, especially connectors in the electrical box. Is there anywhere I can get the CPU tested?

[Hillbillythumper]

Perhaps I should relate a strange occurance that happened. A couple of weeks before my alternator stopped generating I was riding a 2 lane backroad in the Ozarks. I got behind a log truck and crap was blowing off it and hitting me in the face. I decided to pass and rolled the throttle on to wide open. When I hit 75 mph the engine started cutting out. Later, the starter refused to engage and I showed an engine fault. I trailered the bike home. Read codes and they came up 6-6 which is CKP. Then the engine began starting and running fine. I assumed I had a poor connection between CKP and CPU. Then the alternator went out. Battery went flat and while running voltage was less than 12 volts indicating a no charge condition.

[viczena]

The CKP error code can be misleading. Maybe just a secondary result of power loss/often resetting the ECU. Did you check the sidestand switch?

[viczena]

Or the corresponding relays.

[Hillbillythumper]

If the sidestand is down the starter won’t engage but I checked it when the bike wouldn’t crank. Later the bike started after trailering home. It was confusing. Electrically this bike has been unreliable. It only has 4000 miles on the clock. It hasn’t ran in months. I had to replace the battery the day after I bought it. The headlight burned out after a month, then the alternator quit, now it has no spark.

[Freddy1]

Well guys, I got the correct alternator for my bike (as far as I can tell) from Tim at Western Cycle supply and carefully installed it. I have no spark. Resistance of CKP is 208 ohms, same as the original. Showing output with kick starter. Cannot find any bad connections. Fuel pump pressures up and motor cranks normally but not so much as a pop. Pulled plug and cranked with starter. No spark. Tearing my hair out any suggestions?

Why do you have this doubt?
Was the appearance of the rotor identical? , in particular the nibs are the same size as those of the old rotor?
Was the part number 1040062 or not?

[Hillbillythumper]

The alternator appears identical to the original. The connectors and leads match. The number in the rotor is the same. But I didn’t count the nubs unfortunately. I am not familiar with small changes RE might have made. So I won’t be completely certain until the bike is running. But it will run with the alternator completely disconnected. My concern is getting spark now.

[richard211]

The alternator appears identical to the original. The connectors and leads match. The number in the rotor is the same. But I didn’t count the nubs unfortunately. I am not familiar with small changes RE might have made. So I won’t be completely certain until the bike is running. But it will run with the alternator completely disconnected. My concern is getting spark now.

 There are a few different types of stators and rotors that are available and that's just for the EFI models. The Euro 4 models used a 18-1 pip and the Euro 3 used a 24 tooth. If a Euro 3 rotor is installed on a Euro 4 engine there won't be spark. Also there are 2 types of crankshaft position sensors (black color and grey color) and more importantly 2 types of mounting holes on the crankshaft position sensor. One is 5mm and the other is 6mm. If the crankshaft position sensor with the 6mm holes are mounted using 5mm bolts, the air gap between the rotor and crankshaft position sensor can be incorrect as well.

 I would suggest starting at the rotor and stator compare them with what came off the bike when the engine was last running. 

[Haggis]

OP says that the fuel pump is cycling when he kicks it over.
The pump should cycle at every TDC.
That would indicate that the ECU is receiving a pulse from  the CPS.
Also no fault light so the ECU is happy with all its sensors and connections.
Coil tested OK.
Problems seem to have started after the bike hit the rev limiter on an overtake.
It's a strange one.

[richard211]

OP says that the fuel pump is cycling when he kicks it over.
The pump should cycle at every TDC.
That would indicate that the ECU is receiving a pulse from  the CPS.
Also no fault light so the ECU is happy with all its sensors and connections.
Coil tested OK.
Problems seem to have started after the bike hit the rev limiter on an overtake.
It's a strange one.

 Something like a faulty voltage regulator that created a voltage spike that could have damaged the ECU, when the bike hit the rev limiter. There are a number of reasons a no spark situation could occur.

  I suggested looking at the rotor and stator because it does not cost any money to open the RH cover and inspect it. The 2016 Thunderbird 500 EFI (EURO 3) I have will prime the fuel pump every time I move the kick lever even if its a small fraction, does not have to be a full engine rotation past TDC. If a EURO 3 rotor was used instead of EURO 4 rotor, the crank angle sensor will still register a sine wave output that the ECU can understand, however the ECU will not be able figure out where TDC is. ECU's wont show a trouble code saying the crankshaft trigger signal is incorrect or its unable to locate TDC (when a cam angle sensor is not used). That's when it will interrupt the ignition and injector feeds.

 Assuming the Rotor and the Stator is the correct one 18-1 pip. The rest of the troubleshooting is pretty straight forward. If one does not have access to an oscilloscope, a 12V LED Test light (see pic attached, its available at most auto parts stores) will suffice. The way this test light works is that the red battery clamp is connected to the battery positive and the black clamp is connected to the battery negative terminal. When the tip of the test light touches any terminal, if it turns Red that's a positive feed and if it turns Green its a ground feed. If the output from the ECU is pulse width modulated the indicated LED on the test light is going to be flashing as the output turns on and off. This type of test light is perfectly safe for testing ECU feeds since it does not add power or ground into any circuit.

 Using this test light by checking the feeds at the ignition coil while the engine is cranking over, one easily can identify which feed is missing. If its the ECU trigger feed to the ignition coil, then do a continuity test of the wire from the ignition coil to the ECU connector plug (while the ECU is unplugged) using a multimeter. If the wire is not broken, then the fault lies within the ECU probably a damaged driver.
 
 Out of curiosity, I thought I would ask whether the fuel injector is firing? Is the spark plug electrode tip wet when the engine is being cranked over?

 

[Freddy1]

Something like a faulty voltage regulator that created a voltage spike that could have damaged the ECU, when the bike hit the rev limiter. There are a number of reasons a no spark situation could occur.

  I suggested looking at the rotor and stator because it does not cost any money to open the RH cover and inspect it. The 2016 Thunderbird 500 EFI (EURO 3) I have will prime the fuel pump every time I move the kick lever even if its a small fraction, does not have to be a full engine rotation past TDC. If a EURO 3 rotor was used instead of EURO 4 rotor, the crank angle sensor will still register a sine wave output that the ECU can understand, however the ECU will not be able figure out where TDC is. ECU's wont show a trouble code saying the crankshaft trigger signal is incorrect or its unable to locate TDC (when a cam angle sensor is not used). That's when it will interrupt the ignition and injector feeds.

 Assuming the Rotor and the Stator is the correct one 18-1 pip. The rest of the troubleshooting is pretty straight forward. If one does not have access to an oscilloscope, a 12V LED Test light (see pic attached, its available at most auto parts stores) will suffice. The way this test light works is that the red battery clamp is connected to the battery positive and the black clamp is connected to the battery negative terminal. When the tip of the test light touches any terminal, if it turns Red that's a positive feed and if it turns Green its a ground feed. If the output from the ECU is pulse width modulated the indicated LED on the test light is going to be flashing as the output turns on and off. This type of test light is perfectly safe for testing ECU feeds since it does not add power or ground into any circuit.

 Using this test light by checking the feeds at the ignition coil while the engine is cranking over, one easily can identify which feed is missing. If its the ECU trigger feed to the ignition coil, then do a continuity test of the wire from the ignition coil to the ECU connector plug (while the ECU is unplugged) using a multimeter. If the wire is not broken, then the fault lies within the ECU probably a damaged driver.
 
 Out of curiosity, I thought I would ask whether the fuel injector is firing? Is the spark plug electrode tip wet when the engine is being cranked over?

Right!
 If the spark plug electrode tip not wet when the engine is being cranked over better I would check if the rotor is perfectly identical to the old one.

[Hillbillythumper]

Richard211
What Tim at Western Cycle supply shipped me was alternator set 571282 which is for  Euro 4 BS C5 model as he stated on the invoice.
I have not noticed if the tip of the plug was wet.

[Hillbillythumper]

Ok Gentlemen. I will pull the cover again. Hate to lose my $30 bucks of new synthetic oil but I want the thing running.

BTW there are a total of 24 nibs on the old rotor with one being larger than the others.

[Haggis]

FLYWHEEL MAGNETO ASSEMBLY (18-1 PIP) (EURO-4 B5 C5 Models)
PART No. 571282
Would appear to be the correct part.
IF you have a Euro4 engine?

[richard211]

Ok Gentlemen. I will pull the cover again. Hate to lose my $30 bucks of new synthetic oil but I want the thing running.

BTW there are a total of 24 nibs on the old rotor with one being larger than the others.

 There is no need to throw the engine oil away, there are couple of ways to remove the RH cover, one is to lay the Bike down on the left side after placing a few thick blankets of the floor so you don't damage or scratch the bike and then remove the RH cover to get access to the alternator rotor or if you don't feel comfortable doing that you could drain out the oil into a clean container and the reuse it.

 If the old rotor that was off you bike was 24 T, then the 18-1 pip will not work. The ECU will not be able to recognize the crank trigger pattern. I would suggest swapping over the alternator Rotor and that should solve the issue with no spark.

[Haggis]

OP says he has a 2020 500 trials rep.
That would be Euro4 spec with disc brakes all round and abs.
He should have an 18+1 rotor.
My Euro3 bikes (no abs) and drum rear brake, all have 24 tooth rotor, (23+1).

SO, Hillbillythumper, do you have a euro 3 or euro 4 bike?

You say your original rotor was 24, if so the replacement needs to have 24.

[Freddy1]

If you remove the inspection cap located on the front upper  of the crankcase you can see two nibs on the flywheel and you can measure their distance, if they are more distant than those of the old flywheel it means that they are 18 and not 24.

[Haggis]

My spare Euro 3 rotor. 23+1.

[Hillbillythumper]

Ugh! I don’t know if it is Euro 3 or 4 now. 2020 model with disks front and rear and antilock brakes. It should be Euro 4 but it has 24 nibs on the alternator which seems to be Euro 3. I think I will pull off the new rotor and reinstall old rotor. The windings appear identical on the field.

Ok after unscrewing the inspection port at the front top of the side cover I can see the nibs on the rotor. They are much wider than the nibs on my old rotor so the cover has to come back off (#*#¥**!)

[Hillbillythumper]

Haggis

Yeah, that looks like my old rotor, which I’m going to reinstall.

[Hillbillythumper]

Pulled replacement rotor. It does indeed have 17 nibs to the old ones 24. CKP and winding parts look identical to original. Case reinstalled. Will finish reassembly in the morning. Did not have to pull and reinsert the wires. That was the hardest part of the job.

[Haggis]

Fingers crossed for tomorrow., could be a party happening? 🥳

[Hillbillythumper]

If my bike is running this time tomorrow, yeah. Will swill some poison 😁

[D.W.]

I have been following this from the beginning! You guys are fantastic at helping one another. Fingers crossed!

[Hillbillythumper]

Gentlemen,

The thumper is thumping and the battery is charging!!!

Thank you so much👏🏻

[Haggis]

Think goodness for that.
Take care out there.👍

[gizzo]

I have been following this from the beginning! You guys are fantastic at helping one another. Fingers crossed!

Me too. And agree. Well done, fellas.

[Hillbillythumper]

I just took the first ride on my bike in literally months. Nearly froze but I didn’t care😁

Thank you fellows again!

[D.W.]

Gentlemen,

The thumper is thumping and the battery is charging!!!

Thank you so much👏🏻

Great news!!

[richard211]

 That's good to hear the bullet is up and running, the question is why does a 2020 model that's supposed to be a EURO 4 have a Euro 3 alternator rotor?

[Hillbillythumper]

Richard211

Good question. I don’t know but it has certainly caused me grief.

[Richard230]

That's good to hear the bullet is up and running, the question is why does a 2020 model that's supposed to be a EURO 4 have a Euro 3 alternator rotor?

That reminds me of my daughter's 1981 BMW R65LS. It has a 1981 engine with electronic ignition, but also has an entire 1979 R65 transmission, rear drive and even a kick starter, whereas the first 1982 LS models shipped to the U.S. had no kick starter and a different rear drive that used 350cc of lubricant instead of the 250cc quantity that her bike uses. (Guess how I discovered that?     )

The logical conclusion is that BMW was cleaning out the stocks of the old R65 parts on their shelves and manufacturing "bitzas" when making the changeover to the new versions. You don't suppose that RE might do the same thing, do you?   

[Hillbillythumper]

Richard230

Yes. That is my thinking too. RE was discontinuing the 500 singles, so was using up old inventory. Would be nice if these ‘kit bikes’ came with a letter of deviation.

[richard211]

That reminds me of my daughter's 1981 BMW R65LS. It has a 1981 engine with electronic ignition, but also has an entire 1979 R65 transmission, rear drive and even a kick starter, whereas the first 1982 LS models shipped to the U.S. had no kick starter and a different rear drive that used 350cc of lubricant instead of the 250cc quantity that her bike uses. (Guess how I discovered that?     )

The logical conclusion is that BMW was cleaning out the stocks of the old R65 parts on their shelves and manufacturing "bitzas" when making the changeover to the new versions. You don't suppose that RE might do the same thing, do you?   

 Sounds exactly like something Royal Enfield would do.

[Carl Fenn]

I got into this post late, what turned out to be the issue always worth noting.

[richard211]

I got into this post late, what turned out to be the issue always worth noting.

To summarise, the stator for the alternator failed, a replacement alternator rotor and stator was installed but that resulted in a no spark situation. When the rotor for the alternator was replaced, being that it was a 2020 model, a Euro 4 alternator rotor was installed (18-1)  but what the motorbike actually came with was a Euro 3 alternator rotor (24T). The ECU was unable to identify the 18-1 crank signal pattern, so it did not trigger the ignition coil. After installing the old 24T alternator rotor, it resolved the issue.

[Carl Fenn]

Thanks for explanation that seems to be a problem they change the parts far to frequently on these new bikes but l am glad he got it sorted anyway.