[Pierric]

Hello everyone,

I'm Pierric, 46, living in the center of France. I own a 2000 Chennai made Bullet 500 for 2 years. I was not able to ride it or take care of it because of health issues but I'm now better and I performed a complete overhaul of the Bullet recently.

It is now starting and running well but I'm left with an electric issue. My horn, high and low beam lights are not working.

I suspect a command unit issue because the main bulb is OK, no cut or burnt wire and no sign of overheating inside it, and the high beam flash is working when the engine is running. The parking lights are working as well, as are the trafficators, both left and right and both front and rear.

(The tiny bulb inside the headlight seems not to be working as well).

I dismounted the command unit from the handlebar to have a look inside of the two matching parts but didn't see anything suspect. The lights switch has a soft and muddy feel, it doesnt click neatly, but it is not blocked and you still can select any of the 3 positions, with the high beam flash spring still effective.

I'm a bit frustrated because electrics are not my favorite part of motorcycle maintenance and the inside of the headlight is a spaghetti plate which doesn't motivate me, so any kind of help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

(The Law in France now requires any bike to run with lights on, even during daylight, so even if this is not a major issue, it stops me from taking the road).

Have a nice day everyone.

[Adrian II]

Bonjour!

your Bullet will have headlights powered by alternating current straight from the alternator, (everything else is powered by the battery, which is charged via a normal regulator/rectifier), so you will have power to the headlight ONLY with the engine running. This part of the system has its own AC regulator.



https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/2069?qty=1&continue_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com%2Fpartsbook-pages%2F2023

The main switch on the left hand handlebar operates both the DC circuits for the side lights, rear light, indicators and horn, as well as the AC headlight circuit, both circuits are isolated from each other within the switch housing.

It is possible that with age the internal connections within the switch have failed, a replacement switch is not too expensive.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144114373623?hash=item218de2d3f7:g:ySMAAOSwiJZcBhwJ

The light output can be a bit dim at low engine RPM, do not fit too powerful a headlamp bulb, 35/35W might be better!

There is a French Royal Enfield forum where some of the members still understand les vielles Bullets fontes, I don't know if you have seen it.

http://www.royalenfieldlesite.fr/forum/

Bonne route!

A.

[Karl Childers]

My 2006 only has working headlights with the engine running, this may be the case for your year too so start the motorcycle and then check the lights. For the horn I would put a jumper to it to first see if it works, if it does use a volt /ohm meter to trace the circuit from its origin in the wiring harness to the switch and then to the horn checking for voltage and continuity along the way. I had low voltage issues with my Bullet that turned out to be a corroded main ground connection behind the battery box. Over the years I have found bad grounds to be 50% of the problem in both auto and motor cycle electrics. For electrical problems a wiring diagram is a must along with a good multi meter. I believe there are still a few books in print teaching trouble shooting techniques for cars and motorcycles. It will seem daunting at first but with no ECM or other computer related circuitry our old Enfield's are pretty straight forward to work on. A good systematic approach to tracing circuits will keep you from chasing your tail with electrical issues.

[Pierric]

Bonjour Adrian, Hello Karl,

Thanks for your replies !

My road lights aren't working while the engine is running. Using the left switch is useless, but for the lower position (high beam flash, which anyway is also working as intended when the engine is not running).

The switch was fully working 2 months ago but I had to dismount it from the handlebar during my overhaul to replace and reset the decompressor lever (which was removed from the switch bottom from one of the previous owner to be moved to the handlebar while the decompressor itself was not properly fitted on the engine, its spring was not mounted properly and the decompressor was leaking). The left switch harness has become quite rigid, with some folds in it, and my assumption is that while moving it could have endured some stress that displaced some connection inside it. It looks like those old electrics don't like to be shaked after all those years.

I will unlplug it from the main harness and try to see if I find something but since Adrian pointed out that a brand new switch is quite affordable, I guess changing that 20+ years old accessory wouldn't be a bad spending.My concern is that ordering from India let you usually face two choices : wait 2 month to get your part or be racketted by FedEx...

I'll let you know about it.

As for the french forum, I am a member and was even part of the organizing team of the first RE meeting back in 2007, but times they are a-changing and the atmosphere is not what is used to be, iron barrels are almost forgotten and new members are all about their twin cylinders, himalayans or EFI engines, and the place is now rather cold, distant or even sardonic (well, they're french after all are gonna say some of you... ).

[AzCal Retred]

Same machine I have, AC lights, Minda controls. Hitchcocks has parts that fit and are only 3-4 days away.

This would likely work out:
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/2214?qty=1&continue_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com%2Fpartsbook-pages%2F2033
PART No. 144353 ; SWITCH MODULE C/W LEADS + DECOMP LEVER, AFTER 06/99 ; £27.50

Free manual here:https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/core/media/media.nl?id=238185&c=1062795&h=e4dc43de7234f68e6f0e&_xt=.pdf

Good hunting - ACR -

[Adrian II]

@AzCal,

Yeah, that's the same switch as the one in the ebay listing I linked to, but at more than twice the price! I don't want to knock Hitchcocks', but sometimes I baulk at their price hikes!

Indian suppliers should be OK for small stuff like that, most likely they will use the Indian postal service rather than Fedex, with whom i have had my own battles!    Ebay will automatically add EU sales tax (TVA?) so there should be no customs clearance issues when it arrives. In case there are, you can print out a tax invoice.

@ Pierric

The left switch harness has become quite rigid, with some folds in it, and my assumption is that while moving it could have endured some stress that displaced some connection inside it. It looks like those old electrics don't like to be shaked after all those years.

That is most likely, but also the wires themselves can also become brittle, particularly where they might flex, e.g. near the steering head. The main wire from the battery to the ammeter on my Electra-X failed after a few years for that reason. Either that, or a soldered connection in the switch might have fractured, as you suspect.

If you've been on the French forum that long you will have seen the rubbish I have been posting there since 2006! I agree that times have changed, and questions like "What's the best phone mount for my new Interceptor?" leave me stone cold. There are still a few who value the old Bullets, but as on ALL RE forums, including this one, we're fading into irrelevance, sadly.  It's a bit of a rear-guard action.

Meanwhile, French people being sardonic? Only towards les anglais, surely? 

A.

[Pierric]

Yes, HM. Great service, "premium price".

We could discuss the topic of simply retailing indian parts at double the auction sites price, but I guess that's not the subject. If I include a "custom processing fee" billed by the transporter, which is 26 Eu. last times I checked, for a fast shipping from India, it won't be cheaper than HM, anyway.

What would be nice is to have an indian friend packing and shipping us a whole lot of parts at the indian street price... But I digress...

Back to my handle switch. It's always a balance to be found between overconsumption and waste of time trying to re-use parts that should be discarded. 20 years of service is not that bad so I think I'm gonna order a new one, whatever I may found in my current device, which I will inspect very soon, at least for my own education and curiosity.

As for the french RE forum, I guess the main problem is that they didn't have the simple (and quite logic) idea to divide the boards according to the bike models, as it is done here. Maybe it was meant to be more inclusive, like "we are all a great RE family", but as a conservative "cast ironer" mechanically inclined guy, I can't find no common ground with people favoring kid scooters, EV, green brainwashing, as modern and younger RE owners tend to be with the renewed fame of the brand. Most of them won't be able to simply kickstart my Bullet, let alone set the timing or the carb (and some of them probably don't know what a carb is). All of this leads to a lot of frustration, while it has been a pleasure to read the 300+ pages of this section only dedicated to iron barrels models.

And I'm not sure our Bullets are such a lost cause. We are now in a transition period, when they are seen as old and obsolete compared to all the recent RE models, but I talked with my local RE dealer, and if he admitted having no more parts for our models, he also admitted that he was absolutely unsuccessful at trying to buy some used iron barrels for his dealership. No owner he knows is willing to let them go.

I personnaly won't be surprised if they become real collector in a few years, being seen as the genuine classic indian RE. And even if they don't, my RE dealer is true : I will keep my Bullet, whetever the other bikes I may own.

[Karl Childers]

I started restoring 60's era Triumphs back in the early 8o's. In the pre internet days you learned to find who was sitting on a pile of NOS parts and find the dealers of what small amounts of aftermarket and re-pop Parts that were available at the time. I spent my summer at all the swap meets (auto jumbles) in my region to get what I needed for my winter projects. How the world has changed! It would be so much easier now for me to restore say a 500 T-100 C high pipe scrambler  than back then. I don't anticipate any problem keeping my Bullet on the road as long as I'm still around.

[ddavidv]

I bought mine as a non-running project, fully expecting to be unimpressed with it upon completion and selling it on. It's really stolen my heart though. It's not worth a lot, and in the USA not many people know what they are so selling it would probably take awhile. I find it easy and cheap to keep, so why sell it? I enjoy the attention it gets and the leisurely riding it presses upon me. It also really appeals to my mechanical sensibilities. I relish the simplicity and the sewing machine sound of the valvetrain at work. There is just so much to like.

My ongoing nightmare with my '64 Interceptor has people elsewhere asking me why I don't just get rid of it. Some people just don't understand the appeal of vintage machinery.

[AzCal Retred]

Hitchcock's is the primary reason I own a Bullet. They provide parts & knowledge, any there isn't anything else like it. They make Bullet ownership a breeze, not the onerous task of many other famous and faded makes. It's like you are riding a current model machine. You just pick out what you need and it's at your door in a few days, no endless cross-matching, no fabrication, no arcane searching thru 50 year old magazines looking for tidbits of knowledge, no dealing with high-end custom machine shops to whittle out bits that were "NOS" 50 years ago.

Nobody here is broke. If they were, we certainly wouldn't be riding Bullets for recreation. Nobody here doesn't understand that it takes profit margin to provide ancillary services like this forum, or an "On-Line Parts Book", or free manuals to download. If you think $40 is too much to spend for a handlebar switch, run down to Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki/Triumph/BMW/etc. for a rude surprise as you discover that their parts are made of "unobtanium" and largely unavailable if their age exceeds about 10 years.

About the 3rd wrong/hinky component you get from across the pond after a 3 month wait will sour you on the joys of low cost. I'd much rather be riding than spending what time I have left ferreting out bits that may (or may not) fit or perform properly. Hitchcock's have done the bull work and created a fabulous resource, paying a bit over the low-cost-bidder to benefit from their work isn't any hardship for a motor-hobbyist.

[Pierric]

So I spent my afternoon on that switch.

After taking the main black sheath apart, I found a cut in the green wire of that connector :



I was still doubtful since the wire itself didn't appear damaged or cut.

Regarding the switch internals, I didn't find anything suspect.



I took everything apart, cleaned ans inspected all wires, solderings, and sanded all contact surfaces.

The horn button surfaces were blackened so I sanded them as well.



To be sure, I dumped the green connector and installed a new one :



Once the switch refitted and closed, I connected the switch harness to the bike connectors and started it.

Good news : the horn is now working.

Bad news : road lights still aren't working and the parking lights that were working yesterday are not working anymore...

 

I ordered a new switch from HM.

From what I understand the high beam flash is using the battery, so is there a simple way to check my AC regulator ??

[Adrian II]

I suppose the thing to do will be disconnect the yellow and orange alternator wires from the wiring loom and wire them straight to the headlamp bulb, with just the AC regulator in circuit, bypassing the switch, then start the bike. If you get a nice bright light one you rev the engine up, all is well, the problem is the switch or its wiring.

You could do this with just the alternator wires and the headlamp bulb, which will quite probably go very bright and burn out immediately if the alternator is in good condition, then at least you will know the headlamp lighting coils in the alternator are working OK!

You also have the option of converting the entire electrical system to DC via the regulator/rectifier, the Pete Snidal manual shows how to do this with the 4 wire alternator. This will involve a simple modification to the wiring of your (new) lighting switch, and replacing the AC return wire from the headlamp and main beam warning light with an earth wire.

A.

[AzCal Retred]

You might try using the multimeter on AC before trying the sacrificial bulb technique. AC regulator if working should keep it at least 15-17V or less. Straight coil AC is likely to be 20V or more depending on RPM.

The Snidal method parallels the stator coils, just like the pre-2000 3 wire alternators did. Check to see which leads are in phase before paralleling. Each coil has two leads brought out. There will be a pair of wires, one from each coil output, that have the lowest voltage between them while running. those two pairs are the "in phase" pairs.
AC Volts at a given RPM, from coil, read at first connector". Example: A/B is source to DC reg/rec, C/D is source to AC Reg.
      A     B      C     D
A    X     16    2    18
B    16    X    18    2
C    2     18    X    16
D   18     2    16    X

Wires A & C and wires B & D of the two coils are "in phase", as there is minimal differential voltage between them when running. It's similar to connecting 2 DC batteries in parallel, except you are matching the two coil leads that are instantaneously "(+)" together.

The Rec/Reg part numbers were the same when I checked last year, so as Adrian II says it just simplifies things to go all DC.

[Adrian II]

This assumes, of course, that the existing alternator is also healthy.

It probably is, and you will want to check that first. But if not, rather than mount another 4 wire alternator alternator on there, it could be worth an upgrade to a Lucas RM21 or Sparx 005, or even fit a three-phase alternator, any one of which should have more than enough power to support ALL of the Bullet's electrical requirements in a DC system.

A.

[Pierric]

Hello gentlemen,

Thanks a lot for your much appreciated inputs.

I bought Pete's manual 2 years ago but I must admit that I haven't read much of the electrical sections up to now. So I did my homework and read the "AC Light wiring" chapter, which has some nice schematics.

Since I don't know the full history of the bike and some electrical changes were done by PO (removal of the kill switch, upgrade to an indian Eureca ignition system*) I first checked that the Bullet is indeed fitted with a 4-wires alternator, which it is. Then Pete brought my attention by writing "If the connector at the chaincase appears faulty, remove it, stripping and soldering the appropriate wire pairs directly. Use shrink tubing to protect the joints". So I had a look at the alternator connectors and found out that the orange one was a bit loose and dirty.



I cleaned and thightened all of them and kicked the bike. Both high and low beam were now working, so I followed Snidal's advice and removed the faulty connectors. Each lead was connected directly and protected with individual shrinking tube, before protecting the lot with black electrical tape.



It should eliminate a quadruple source of possible troubles.

All the lights and indicators are working, but the parking ones. I still have to check this point...

I read your comments about going full DC, and the matching sections of Pete's manual, but as for now I'm quite happy with my configuration and I don't mind having weak light at low rev since I will use it mainly to please the cops and I don't intend to do some night riding so I'll see later if I feel the need for it or not.

Thanks also for the alternator upgrade references. I'll keep them handy in case I'll change this part.

What I also did is upgrading my coil to a Bosch one, my reg-rec to a Lucas one, and I added a 50V 6800µF capacitor to be connected in parallel with my battery (I paid 4 Eu. for it).



I tested it today with capacitor alone, the Bullet still started first kick. The ammeter light was weak and blinking but that's a nice "back to home" solution in cas of dead battery, and with the Lucas Rec/Reg and the cap I guess I've got an homemade Powerbox for a third of the price...

* Wich I suppressed to revert to a classic points plate. I suspected it to run erratic and cause hard starting and kickbacks, while I am used to classic points system with my previous bikes - and IMO there is no much need for an electrical ignition on such a low revving single cylinder.