Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: Maturin on January 30, 2011, 07:27:43 pm
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Let´s help our Indian friends to find a solution
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No question, parallel twin. :)
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Inline twin, like a Sunbeam S7. ;D
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It's a v twin for me
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P Twin please.
( I think Msr. McQueen may be looking down on us with a wry grin over this )
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V-twin
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I vote parallel twin BUT if they're making this bike to take on Harley at home they may be more inclined to a v-twin to compete more directly.
Scott
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Inline twin, like a Sunbeam S7. ;D
HA! - Only YOU would come up with up that .... ! ;) I was gonna say like a Velocette LE ..... ::)
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I vote parallel twin BUT if they're making this bike to take on Harley at home they may be more inclined to a v-twin to compete more directly.
Scott
My initial reaction was H-D has has twenty year head start in advertising with Billions spent in that department for RE to make any headway at all with a V-Twin.
And then a V Star rumbled past,,,,,,,
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I would like a 750 parallel and a 1000 v-twin
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HA! - Only YOU would come up with up that .... ! ;) I was gonna say like a Velocette LE ..... ::)
I was kind of thinking about a Douglas Dragonfly too ;D
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V twin,like Aniket's Musket... :o
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Well, as long as there's a contest;
How about a V-twin like a Victoria Burgmeister.
Just to be different...
RE's first shaft drive!
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My initial reaction was H-D has has twenty year head start in advertising with Billions spent in that department for RE to make any headway at all with a V-Twin.
And then a V Star rumbled past,,,,,,,
Isn't it amazing what you can do quietly, with a little technology and a willingness to innovate? Hahaha! I'm guessing that the whole "Vee-Twin" thing is getting a bit long int he tooth for the general buying public ..... but I don't know for sure - my crystal ball has a chip in it .... ::)
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Parallel of course........or maybe an in-line 4 ::)
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And then a V Star rumbled past,,,,,,,
I owned a V-star 650 Classic. It was great on gas, ran flawlessly all day long, low maintenance with shaft drive, and looked like a bike twice as big as it really was. I liked it so much I've actually thought about buying one again several times. The only thing I didn't like is that the pegs are so far forward you're always getting a draft up your pants. I guess style trumps function in the cruiser market.
Gorilla, I don't think the V-twin market is nearly played out in the US. As evidence I offer the fact that HD is still around selling hugely expensive bikes even in this economy, as are all it's imitators foreign and domestic.
Scott
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I can't decide, because I like both types.
However, the V-Twin thing is far from "played out".
The V-Twin in a wider vee than Harley can be extremely good for inherent engine balance. Much better than any parallel twin.
The vertical twin has all balancing forces in the primary plane. The wider V-Twins address the secondary plane issues much better.
The Ducati 90-degree V-Twin design is an excellent example of this.
From a pure engine design view, the V-Twin can be better than the parallel twin can be.
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I prefer the parallel myself, but I would have to agree with Scotty in terms of competition with Harley. They may do better with the v-twin. However, there is always the possibility that an aggressive and strategic marketing campaing could change the wind in the opposite direction.
Take JetBlue for instance. In April of 2009 they offered an "All You Can Fly Ticket" for $599. The ad only ran for a few days and only a certain number of tickets were available. The ticket allowed you to fly as often as you wanted for an entire month. Yes, they lost some money on this deal, but the brand recognition paid off in the end. Almost every major and minor news agency in America reported on this. JetBlue garnered a lot of new customers as a result of this campaign. I personally think it is brilliant and certainly something that other companies could and should get inspired by. It would be easy to imagine possibilities. Let’s say Microsoft offered the Zune with unlimited life downloads of music for a few days. It might lose some money on all of those sales but the return in branding could be even better. It's all about consumer psychology, lol. :D :D
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I had a 04 V star 650 classic with running boards instead of pegs, I loved that bike.
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Mine was a year or two earlier when they still had pegs on the Classic. Yeah, nice bike. When I went to sell it I talked with a buyer who did trade ins all over SoCal. He told me what he could pay and knew I wouldn't take it. He said it was an awesome bike but they just didn't sell many for some reason he couldn't really figure out.
Scott
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Gorilla, I don't think the V-twin market is nearly played out in the US. As evidence I offer the fact that HD is still around selling hugely expensive bikes even in this economy, as are all it's imitators foreign and domestic.
Scott
Well, that wasn't me that wrote that, but i think the point was that enough is enough with the V-twins already. With Harley and all the the other manufacturers trying to out Harley, Harley. And some pretty good at it. Yes, a quite successfull line to imitate, but not what it was a few years ago.
I would be a little concerned if RE were to come out with a V-twin and it were to be viewed as "just another Harley copy". No matter how good the design, or how far from the truth a statement like that would be.I say we keep the bike different, that may not be the best way to go marketing wise,Or engineering wise, but i think that's why most of us bought an Enfield.
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Perhaps Enfield could make a 90 degree v-twin and turn the motor sideways so the air cooling is more efficient. Put a shaft drive on it to take advantage of the crankshaft direction. They could out-Guzzi Moto Guzzi! ;D
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I say we keep the bike different, that may not be the best way to go marketing wise,Or engineering wise, but i think that's why most of us bought an Enfield.
Yes. This is what I'm saying. Keep the bike DIFFERENT, but throw a good marketing campaign behind it to show that there are other options out there beside the typical HD's. A lot of avid riders don't even know what an RE is.
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I want to see a parallel twin. Way too many V-twins, look alikes.
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I'd like a parallel twin too, but the Enfield might have some serious, cheaper competition in that category in the European market. Kawasaki's releasing the w800, and while the Triumph Bonneville series is declining in quality in recent years, it's still much better known than RE.
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Well, that wasn't me that wrote that...
Oops! I've had a few cocktails today ;)
I think the key to a successful twin of any variety in the international market for RE is better quality control and good pricing. I'm sure the RE will have more retro styling than anything else out there and that's the hook that will bring people in. There's nothing out there like an RE. I still wonder why Kawasaki stopped selling the W650 and the Drifter in the US. Those bikes were both awesome!
Scott
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Opposed twin didn't make the list, I see... :P
I wouldn't turn my nose up at a transverse V Guzzi-style, but what I'd really like is a big bore sloper single like the Panther.
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Oops! I've had a few cocktails today ;)
Scott
I say we all go out and discuss this over cocktails :P
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Brilliant! Oh wait! It's 1:30am by you. Well, I'll just have one for you then ;)
Scott
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I think if they plan to do a parallel twin, it should look like one of the RE older twins to maintain the "throwback to the heritage" kind of retro look.
That's what Triumph and Ducati and Guzzi all did too. It hearkens back to the memory of the old "glory days", so it makes sense.
It could look something like this Royal Enfield Interceptor
(http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/royal_enfield_750_interceptor.jpg)
If they do a V-Twin, they should definitely avoid any temptation to do a chopper-esque cruiser. That would really be "me too" in a bad way, coming in at the very end of the over-done trend.
A V-Twin standard bike or sporty bike would be nice instead. All V-Twins don't have to be choppers or Harley clones. There's a variety of ways they could go with that. They could even go futher retro, and make something styled like the old KX1140 Royal Enfield V-Twin from the 1930s., and that would have RE heritage too.
That could satisfy the cravings of some people on the "Classic Bullet Forum" who want girder forks and hardtails and that "ancient look".
Like this maroon-colored Royal Enfield KX1140 here.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2664/3886744724_ffdf72c8c2.jpg)
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RE has dabbled in more than one type of V twin ;)
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Yes, and there have been private efforts too.
Such as Aniket's Bullet-based Musket 700
(http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Royal-Enfield-Musket-V-Twin-700.jpg)
And the Carberry Bullet-based "Double Barrel 1000"
(http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/motorbikes/97201d1233681507-bullet-lovers-rejoice-someone-else-built-enfield-v-twin-carberry9.jpg)
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@ACE:
After seeing the pictures you have posted of a parallel twin - Interceptor and a V-twin - Carberry, I am ambivalent which one to choose :D. Both of them look impressive - though I had initially preferred a parallel twin.
I liked what you said that not all v-twins have to be Harley clones and that there are other ways to do it - that makes them look good and perform better !
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Yep, those guys have built some cool bikes, no doubt about it. No matter what RE decides to build it will be a great design, but I still like 500cc singles better than anything else.
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I was thinking to leave the transverse V to Guzzi but that old black and white pic looks kinda cool! Shaft drive would raise the price though, as would a whole new engine and frame utilizing so little of what they already have.
Scott
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RE has dabbled in more than one type of V twin ;)
Wow ................!
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I voted in-line twin, because an in-line twin is more "British" (although a case could be made for the Vincent, I guess).
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If the new Vtwin looked like a vincent (as does the carberry) its a winner. However, I still like the parrallel twin too. RE is lucky. With so much history of both they can pick and choose.
w
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There was a Royal Enfield triple too ;D
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It wasn't an option but I say opposed twin. I really like BMWs. V twin simply for the likeliehood of less tooth chattering THUMP.
Sam
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Why not beat them all at their own game and do a parallel twin 270 firing angle. Then you get the Brit-retro looks (yes V twin has been beaten to death with wannabees) and also the to die for sound, with a little more emphasis on torque than power. Keep the upright seating position like the Bullet (or Meteor for that matter) and then you have something unique on the market whose only comptetion in miles would be the Kawasaki W 800. I think brand can do the rest . After all which would you rather have---an authentic Royal Enfield revisitiation of it's own style, or a Japanese throwback to their own owopy bike of the the 1960's. ? Of sound is what sells REs in India, a 270 oughta do it. Nigel.
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Sorry, no cocktails yet but not enough coffee this morning: Those last lines should have read, ".....throwback to their own copy bike of the 1960's ? If sound is what sells REs in India a 270(degree) oughta do it. Nigel.
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Sorry, no cocktails yet but not enough coffee this morning: Those last lines should have read, ".....throwback to their own copy bike of the 1960's ? If sound is what sells REs in India a 270(degree) oughta do it. Nigel.
Nigel,
Point well-taken about the cross-plane crank.
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I didn´t mention any fireing angles for inline twins in the vote because I thought it would be crystal clear that we´re talking about a parallel twin. If it were clear about the possible variations of twin and the different opinions about them in the forum I´d have them added to the poll aswell. Sorry about that, maby ammunition for a following poll :)
My personal taste is definitely a parallel twin, as RE doesn´t need a high performance power plant. When you look for torque and are willing to avoid high revs, this thing will go like ape shit ;D
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When you look for torque and are willing to avoid high revs, this thing will go like ape shit ;D
'Nuff said ;)
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Hey Folks,
It's a no-brainer...parallel twin ! I remember as a teen ager seeing my first Royal Enfield Interceptor 750 cc, and wondered ( now ), if they would ever come back.
The V-Twin market is covered.......between Harley, Victory , and the Japanese, it makes no sense for R.E. to compete with them. That is the same mistake that I think the new Indian is making.......they're pursuing a V-Twin market when they should have focused on their in-line 4 cylinder! Why the hell didn't they think of that !
Royal Enfield is famous for their singles and twins, and they should stay with that........just an opinion.
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I have sort of an emotional inclination to the parallel twin, in an Interceptor-like styling too.
And I certainly agree that is the most recent heritage of the RE twins.
But I also like V-Twins. They don't have to be choppers or low-riders. Ducati does an excellent job with sporting V-Twins, and Suzuki became almost the "de facto standard bike" with their 650 V-Strom, and are others like that too.
So a V-Twin doesn't have to be in the "cliche" chopper-esque bike style.
I would be happy to see either type.
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I like both also. I think India will build what there market would want,since we are only a small portion of the pie. In other words,not sure if the Intercepter was their bag and they may want to go modern,like liquid cooled?
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I like both also. I think India will build what there market would want,since we are only a small portion of the pie. In other words,not sure if the Intercepter was their bag and they may want to go modern,like liquid cooled?
Regarding the present RE-infrastructure in India I expect a low-tech-engine without liquid cooling or overhead camshafts. The easyest thing to do would be just double a Bullet using as many identical parts as possible. If that theory is correct we´ll see a 700ccm and a 1000ccm version, both OHV and air cooled (and wouldn´t that be 8) ?)
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Agreed, I don't think they're going to make a radical liquid cooled departure. Remember, these are daily driver vehicles for many Indians and simplicity and reliability are key.
Scott