[Chasfield]

Every time I open the headlight of my 500 Classic I think to myself, "gotta rewire that bike sometime. I could make it twice as neat, lose half those wires and two thirds of those %#@ &# crimp connectors."

I would do it like this:

1 - Junk the AC lighting and go to all DC. Can a 4 wire alternator be used (fully)? - if not buy a 3 wire stator.
2 - Junk the existing regulator and rectifier modules and put in a one-piece solid-state unit of greater spec. than is required.
3 - Donate existing wiring harness to the London Science Museum.
4 - Put the  ignition switch in the tool box near the coil and batt.
5 - Modify the kill switch so that it is used to short the points out rather than be part of the long distance electrical  feed to them (and so win a few volts back for the ignition system).
6 - Run a heavyweight 12 volt bus wire up to the headlight from the batt. and then take power for accessories from there via a well made, sealed junction box.
7 - All earths to the frame (thus lose a lot of spaghetti). Make those earths good quality, and use an automotive grade copper earth strap to bridge the steering head bearings.
8 - Use (a minimum of) all soldered connectors.
9 - Use generic horn/dip switch/turn signal switchgear for simplicity.

I reckon this would give me reliability, fixability and save a few pounds weight. Just need to make the first cut...

[The Garbone]

On #4

I want to do this also.  I was thinking about leaving the box empty  (since it is a keyed lock) and putting in a toggle switch inside.  Putting a retro light switch in place of the existing ignition.  If you get to this soon I would love to see pictures.

The only down side is I will have to put may spare tire and cable in my saddle bag.

[geoffbaker]

1 - Junk the AC lighting and go to all DC. Can a 4 wire alternator be used (fully)? - if not buy a 3 wire stator.
2 - Junk the existing regulator and rectifier modules and put in a one-piece solid-state unit of greater spec. than is required.

6 - Run a heavyweight 12 volt bus wire up to the headlight from the batt. and then take power for accessories from there via a well made, sealed junction box.
7 - All earths to the frame (thus lose a lot of spaghetti). Make those earths good quality, and use an automotive grade copper earth strap to bridge the steering head bearings.
8 - Use (a minimum of) all soldered connectors.

When you do it, write it up fully here. I'd love to do much the same - go to DC, lose the rec/reg.. waiting for someone else to do it and show me how!

I already rewired so I have all circuit breakers instead of fuses, and all in one place (toolbox). Much improved.

In the meantime, I have a rule... whenever I need to fix something electrical, I make a new good connection, either permanent soldered or waterproof connector... upgrading it one bit at a time...

[Jeri Danger]

Hi
OK, this is something I am working on(well soon anyway)
Yes, you will be able to reuse your four wire alternator.
On AC lighting bikes four of the six coils(two wires) are used to supply the headlamp.
One should be able to convert by connecting these wires in parallel to
the two(purple,I think)rectifier supply lines.
Of course you will need to connect these two wires so that they are
in phase(phase additive).That should be simple enuff to do with a multimeter.
So, you should have all the output of the alternator being rectified at that point.
The one thing I don't know is the capacity of the rectifier/regulator unit.
Ok, now to work on getting some switched DC to the headlamp.
I will need to stare at the wiring(such as it is)harness for a spell
I am
Jeri Danger!!!
PS hope you,all can understand even a bit of my blathering

[petefletcher]

I think I can speak for all RE owners when I agree wholeheartedly.
The current wiring is a complete dog's breakfast (if dogs eat spaggetti)
What gets me is all the different types of connectors.
Unfortunately I on't understand auto electrics enough to have a go.
If anyone has successfully done this please publish!!

[t120rbullet]

A few thoughts on re-wiring,
My early 99 has an all DC system. With the headlight on all the time there was a drain on the battery when starting, so that's why they went to the ac/dc system.
I got by that by putting a better/more Ah battery in it. When I'm stopped at a light or starting the headlight (halogen sealed beam) doesn't dim at all. And when I get the revs up the anemic alternator will charge the battery just fine with the added benefit of since the battery isn't getting boiled by an over enthusiastic alternator it lasts forever.
With the high beam on the ammeter needle is in the green so as far as I'm concerned it's good enough not to "fix"it.
 
The 2 piece regulator/rectifier is a pretty good long lasting unit. No need to toss it to up-grade.
My 95 came with a one piece black rubber RR unit that was a POS right off the bat and I replaced it with a Tympanium RR unit that 12 yrs later is still working good.
I have used them on Triumph for many years with no problems too.
PODtronics and Boyer also make good RR units but the Boyer is a bit on the pricey side for me.

The reason the rats nest is in the headlight is because both the battery and the alternator wires run all the way up the ammeter and feed everything from there.
It's hard to get around not having a rat's nest up there. By getting rid of the ammeter you can simplify the harness greatly.

Ground wires, though good bonding to the frame is important I still believe in running ground wires for most everything. When you rely on the frame to do it all you are relying on corroding/rusting nuts and bolts for all your grounds. A wire will do it better. Even a small one like 18g will do.

My 2001 Bullet.
The day I bought it I was on my way home. I turned at a light and everything died. I coasted over to a parking lot and checked the fuse and it was burnt. I put the spare in and made it home. Drove it for a couple of months and no more problems.
After I put the new engine in it I rode it to work and when I pulled into the parking lot it died. Fuse blew again. Had 3 spares this time. Put the second one in and poof.
Oh Oh, it ain't gonna be so easy this time.
After work I went out there and hooked a buzzer up between the 2 fuse connectors and it started buzzing right off the bat.
I pulled the headlight off and started disconnecting connectors until it quit buzzing.
Leaving that connector undone I put the fuse back in and rode it home with no lights at all. Later I found that the wires going back to the taillight were the culprit so I started checking it out and found that where it wrapped around the fender in the front by the coil the tire had rubbed through and trashed 3 wires. I made up a new harness and thought all was well.
While I had the headlight off I replaced the high beam indicator bulb because it didn't work. With the new bulb in not only did it work when the high beam was on but it was on when the low beam was on too except not as bright. The headlight was very dim at idle but got better as the revs went up.
Now I get my intro to the AC system.
While I'm checking out the AC system I have a bunch of the connectors off and since none of the lights were connected I couldn't see that I had left the key switch on and went to bed. The next morning I realize that the battery was now dead too. I charged it up and started the bike so I think to myself alright, I didn't trash the coil and points. Cool!
After checking out and getting totally confused with the AC system I tried reversing the amber and green wires on the headlight itself and all the problems went away.
When I disconnected the headlight I marked right on the headlight with magic marker what color wire went to where so it must have been like that since before I bought it and didn't make a diffrence until I put the indicator bulb in.
I took it out for a 10 mile ride and it was OK. The next day I took it out for another 10 mile ride and it was OK.
Last Sat. I rode it to work again and when I left to go home it wouldn't start.
After changing the plug and a couple of loud backfires it fired up but was running a bit on the weak side. I got it home and the next day there was a puddle on the floor behind the gearbox. About 6" behind the gearbox. A little flashlight work later and I found the coil had split the rim around the top where they crimp the plastic top on and was leaking oil. Didn't think there was that much oil in a coil ! That will teach me to leave the key on overnight. New condenser in already in and a new coil is on the way.

So I'll follow this thread closely especially the re-wire of the alternator back to a 2 wire DC system.
I like simple.

 




  

 




  

[Chasfield]

Yes, you will be able to reuse your four wire alternator.
On AC lighting bikes four of the six coils(two wires) are used to supply the headlamp.
One should be able to convert by connecting these wires in parallel to
the two(purple,I think)rectifier supply lines.
Of course you will need to connect these two wires so that they are
in phase(phase additive).That should be simple enuff to do with a multimeter.

Jeri

I had a look at the 4 wire alternator set up. As you suggest, re-merging the AC lighting windings, by parallel connection, with those used for DC looks straightforward, apart from getting the phasing right. "Man", I thought, "I could sure use a dual beam oscilloscope right about now." But then I was thinking that two analogue multi-meters could be connected, one to each pair of output wires. Turning the engine over on the kick start would produce needle kicks that would indicate the direction of current flow, and the connections for correct phasing would quickly become obvious.

At the moment I am collecting bits and pieces for the re-wire - which I think will happen before too long.

[ace.cafe]

I've got a good story for the "electrical nightmare" crowd here.

My bike has always had an occasional "stumble" that was unpredictable, and sometimes affected idle and was sometimes felt at low speed running, but was very intermittent.
I had always assumed there was a carb issue that I couldn't track down, like some dirt or something that might occasionally infect the carb, and then move thru.

However, I just recently installed my new tachometer last weekend, and I was running the bike yesterday to warm it up, and I noticed that when it stumbled, the tach needle jumped around wildly, and then settled back to normal again, and then when it stumbled again a few seconds later, the tach needle went wild again.
At that point, I knew it was something electrical.

So, searching and testing, I had the cap off the distributor, to see if I could track something down inside there.(BTW, I have the Boyer Mk3 ignition). But, try as I may, I couldn't find anything, and every time I ran the bike to see if the problem was still occurring, it ran perfectly, with no stumbles, and the tach needle was steady as she goes.
So, I decided that I couldn't find it and would hope for the best, and put the distributor cap back on to "button her up". Then I decided to go on with my warming up of the bike, so I kickstarted it, and it had trouble kickstarting, and then when it did get started, the stumbling was back and the tach needle jumping around again.

Well, the only thing that changed since it had been running perfectly a minute ago, was that I put the plastic distributor cap back on. So, I took it off again, and re-started the bike. Perfect running, no tach jumping. Put the cap back on, Problem comes back.
This is a PLASTIC cap! I have no idea why it is causing a problem, and it's not pushing the wires around because I tried checking that.

Soooo, I go in the house and get my spare other plastic distributor cap, and put that one on the bike, and it runs perfect!
No problems now.

Why in the world a particular plastic distributor cap with no electrical function would do this to the bike, I have no idea. And why an identical replacement works just fine, I have no idea.
But I can tell you that in almost 40 years of mechanic work, I've never seen anything like it.

[Talcecom]

To make life easier and change to an all DC bike, couldn't you just take the two AC wires and use another rectifier/regultor (the same one as on the DC side). Once you had two DC's you could parallel the DC outputs with no phaseing  problems. Just an idea.  Bob.

[ace.cafe]

To make life easier and change to an all DC bike, couldn't you just take the two AC wires and use another rectifier/regultor (the same one as on the DC side). Once you had two DC's you could parallel the DC outputs with no phaseing  problems. Just an idea.  Bob.

Yes that is "do-able".

[Foggy_Auggie]

I've got a good story for the "electrical nightmare" crowd here.

My bike has always had an occasional "stumble" that was unpredictable, and sometimes affected idle and was sometimes felt at low speed running, but was very intermittent.
I had always assumed there was a carb issue that I couldn't track down, like some dirt or something that might occasionally infect the carb, and then move thru.

However, I just recently installed my new tachometer last weekend, and I was running the bike yesterday to warm it up, and I noticed that when it stumbled, the tach needle jumped around wildly, and then settled back to normal again, and then when it stumbled again a few seconds later, the tach needle went wild again.
At that point, I knew it was something electrical.

So, searching and testing, I had the cap off the distributor, to see if I could track something down inside there.(BTW, I have the Boyer Mk3 ignition). But, try as I may, I couldn't find anything, and every time I ran the bike to see if the problem was still occurring, it ran perfectly, with no stumbles, and the tach needle was steady as she goes.
So, I decided that I couldn't find it and would hope for the best, and put the distributor cap back on to "button her up". Then I decided to go on with my warming up of the bike, so I kickstarted it, and it had trouble kickstarting, and then when it did get started, the stumbling was back and the tach needle jumping around again.

Well, the only thing that changed since it had been running perfectly a minute ago, was that I put the plastic distributor cap back on. So, I took it off again, and re-started the bike. Perfect running, no tach jumping. Put the cap back on, Problem comes back.
This is a PLASTIC cap! I have no idea why it is causing a problem, and it's not pushing the wires around because I tried checking that.

Soooo, I go in the house and get my spare other plastic distributor cap, and put that one on the bike, and it runs perfect!
No problems now.

Why in the world a particular plastic distributor cap with no electrical function would do this to the bike, I have no idea. And why an identical replacement works just fine, I have no idea.
But I can tell you that in almost 40 years of mechanic work, I've never seen anything like it.

I've seen this in the old car points, rotor and disributor days.  Car distributor caps are plastic.  Distributor caps will get an almost invisible carbon track at times.  Other times it is very visible.  These carbon tracks would short between cylinder rotor contacts or sometimes short to the metal distributor base housing.

I've had new distributor caps that would short out having no visible imperfections.  The fix was to buy another distributor cap.

Of course the Enfield cap has no contact points or rotor.  But it would have to be a carbon track conductor short of some kind on the inside of the cap. 

Mine has a rough dark gray finish on the inside.  Seems like the inside matt finish could capture carbon particles as there are polarity reverses pulsing inside that cap.

Just a thought.

[Blltrdr]

 Foggy, no rotor, no track! The stock Bullet cap is just a plastic cover. No wires and non-conducting. In Aces' case it seems like some kinda freaky luck that the cap change solved his problem. Huh! Scratch scratch, ponder, scratch scratch! I wish I could solve some of my problems with the change of cap!

[bulletsixty5]

i concure on the bullet wiring rats nest. (as a long dragged out problem post of my own has expained). its a bit sketchy at best.

[LJRead]

When I first got my Thunderbird it had some electrical problems.  As I recall, these were having to do with the lights.  Having only house wiring experience, I figured it couldn't be that much different, so, being me, I just grabbed the bull by the horns, unwrapped the entire wiring harness, traced each wire, found two that were broken so soldered them up.  Then I went through the entire bike and solder and shrink wrapped every connection.  While doing all this I had a cascade of wire down the right side to the foot pegs, I guess, but though sweating it out a little, I taped everything up and put everything back together, and everything worked fine.  Only problem is, now I want to paint the chrome headlight shell black and there is a dent in it to be straightened and filled, so this means I will have to label each wire, cut and reassemble after the lamp shell is ready to put back.

If I were in the U.S. I would go to a better quality zinc plated wire (less corrosion prone) and maybe simplify even more.  I put a new frame ground in, a heavy bronze strap. The soldering and getting rid of excess connectors did make a difference - behind the headlight now looks simplified, before it looked like a real rat's nest, now not so much.   I got rid of a bunch of indicator lights telling me this and that, none of which I would ever look at and none of which worked, so that one harness and associated wires was quite a bundle.  I also got rid of the broken tachometer, electric, as i have never bothered to look at the ones I have had on my cars, so wouldn't look at it either.  Yeah, I do like simple.  There was a custom Harley I saw once with no instruments at all, don't know where he put the light switches, probably weren't any turn signal lights (don't think there were).  That impressed me.

After all this, I now read about wiring problems on the forum and wonder why don't they just get in there and put everything right.  I spent a full week on it, but feel better for it. 

Yes, I would still like to improve it more - I don't ride at night so the headlight isn't a bother.  I went to capacitor instead of battery, and now no battery, but I have CDI ignition and no starter motor, so none required.

I am using this Thunderbird as the basis for my rickshaw, so will be doing more wiring of tail lights etc. and will then probably simplify even more.  Some will be LED.

[geoffbaker]

I must admit, with my diesel I'm tempted to get rid of ALL of it.. I don't need no steenkin' electrics!!!

But then I'd get tickets, I suppose...

Could I just drive around with a kerosene lantern and use hand signals, I wonder...

[taildraggin]

Of course, Lucas started in acetylene lamps.  Never got the hang of wiring, did he?

[Chasfield]

Probably the brightest thing that Uncle Joe ever made - should 'a' quit while he was ahead of the game.

BTW, for installation on my Bullet I'd need to stuff that lamp with a pointless bundle of brass 1/4 inch pipe, all held together by odd sized tee pieces.

 

A thought on simplified electrics. Years back didn't Jaguar announce a digitally controlled electrical system for cars that did away with most of the wiring harness? The idea was that you ran a single 12 volt bus wire, paired with a digital signal wire around the car. All electrical accessories were smart and permanently connected between 12 volts and ground. The digital line sent coded signals to tell devices to turn themselves on or off when commanded by the relevant dashboard control. The system saved a hundred pounds weight of copper wire. I don't know how far Jaguar went with it. Neat concept though.

[geoffbaker]

A thought on simplified electrics. Years back didn't Jaguar announce a digitally controlled electrical system for cars that did away with most of the wiring harness? The idea was that you ran a single 12 volt bus wire, paired with a digital signal wire around the car. All electrical accessories were smart and permanently connected between 12 volts and ground. The digital line sent coded signals to tell devices to turn themselves on or off when commanded by the relevant dashboard control. The system saved a hundred pounds weight of copper wire. I don't know how far Jaguar went with it. Neat concept though.

BMW was working on this concept of digital electrics. I don't think anyone has gone into production, though; perhaps because figuring out what is wrong when something goes wrong may be extremely difficult... or perhaps because it would mean rolling out a whole new set of tech equipment and massive training on a worldwide level for any company thinking of doing it...

[The Garbone]

I think some of the newer fly by wire aircraft use a common bus..

I do believe this is a method currently in use by high end model train enthusiasts.

[geoffbaker]

ace.cafe...

I woke up last night and was thinking about one thing or another about my bullet, and I remembered your electric problem.

I have a theory....

Your plastic cap is not creating an electrical problem. It is creating a mechanical problem which is creating an electrical problem.

If, like my distributor cap, it is both fairly old and poorly made, there is a fair amount of flex in it.

I'm thinking that there is enough flex in it that it occasionally makes contact with the assembly inside and beneath, rotating under it.

Test it by replacing it, getting it running, and then pushing it with your thumb. If it has enough flex to touch the assembly beneath, you should be able to get your engine to "stumble" without difficulty.

You say you have the Boyer ignition. Not sure what that is or what it consists of, but I would suspect that something is being jiggled just enough to occasionally cause a short, losing your spark on a reolution every so often.

I'm thinking is that - if you system  has  condenser/points -
a) the condensor is angled out enough to occasionally and irregularly touch the cap, and when this happens it moves it enough to alter the points gap (could be loose too)... or

b) - my favorite.. that it touches the condensor or some other part of the rotating assembly and that the very small insulating washer that the condensor bolts onto is cracked or damaged, and when jiggled, it creates a momentary short. This ha'oenny washer only needs to be slightly out of whack and the engine will begin shorting routinely... I discovered this when I replaced the condensor/points assembly WITH
OUT the washer, and it would work, sort of, but I could see sparking as the distributor circled around and shorted out routinely.

If your system doesn't have a condensor or points, I'm still thinking that whatever you have is getting "bumped" occasionally by the flexing of the plastic cap, and causing a brief short.

My 2 cent theory. And worth every penny of it.

[ace.cafe]

It's possible.
I'll check it out this week to see if I can get any clue about it.
It's predicted to rain alot this week, so i may be socked-in for a few days until the weather clears up.

[LotusSevenMan]

I must admit, with my diesel I'm tempted to get rid of ALL of it.. I don't need no steenkin' electrics!!!

But then I'd get tickets, I suppose...

Could I just drive around with a kerosene lantern and use hand signals, I wonder...

Great Idea Geoff. This for a front light?

http://www.villagehatshop.com/miners_helmet_light.html

[geoffbaker]

I must admit, with my diesel I'm tempted to get rid of ALL of it.. I don't need no steenkin' electrics!!!

But then I'd get tickets, I suppose...

Could I just drive around with a kerosene lantern and use hand signals, I wonder...

Great Idea Geoff. This for a front light?



http://www.villagehatshop.com/miners_helmet_light.html

What do you think I am? A member of the Village People??

YYYYMMMMMCCCCCAAAAAA gonna stay at the YYYYMMMMCCCAAAAA

[Jeri Danger]

Yes, you will be able to reuse your four wire alternator.
On AC lighting bikes four of the six coils(two wires) are used to supply the headlamp.
One should be able to convert by connecting these wires in parallel to
the two(purple,I think)rectifier supply lines.
Of course you will need to connect these two wires so that they are
in phase(phase additive).That should be simple enuff to do with a multimeter.

Jeri

I had a look at the 4 wire alternator set up. As you suggest, re-merging the AC lighting windings, by parallel connection, with those used for DC looks straightforward, apart from getting the phasing right. "Man", I thought, "I could sure use a dual beam oscilloscope right about now." But then I was thinking that two analogue multi-meters could be connected, one to each pair of output wires. Turning the engine over on the kick start would produce needle kicks that would indicate the direction of current flow, and the connections for correct phasing would quickly become obvious.

At the moment I am collecting bits and pieces for the re-wire - which I think will happen before too long.

Hi Chas
Getting the phasing right should not be a thing.
Do this(its like this on my bike)
Find the yellow and Orange(amber)pair from the alternator.
Jump the yellow to one of the purple rectifier inputs(make sure it only goes there)
Measure between the Orange wire and the other purple with your voltmeter.
Note the reading and connection.
Now disconnect the yellow from whatever purple wire and connect it to
the other purple
Measure with your voltmeter from the Orange to the other purple wire.
Note the reading and the connection.
Now simply pick the setup that gave the lowest reading(in volts) between the Orange
and purple wires.
You are done sugar.
The alternater now should be in phase.
Oh! do all of the above with the bike running of course.
I am
Jeri Danger!!!

[Chasfield]

Just running that through my brain a couple of times. Think I see it.

You are testing the two options for eventual parallel connection. If you set them up to be 180 degrees out of phase then a big AC voltage differential will be present between the free output wires of the two sets of windings - varying between 0 and twice Vmax, as it were. If you have them the right way then there will be much less difference as the AC outputs will be following each other. There will only be a measurable differential because one set of outputs is being being driven by 2 pairs of windings and the other by only one.

Thanks - that's a good tip.

Chas
 

[Jeri Danger]

Hi
That's it sugar!
In electrical terms its called buck or boost.
Just make sure that when you do the test that the two
AC output wires go only to the purple, not anywhere else(like ground)
You will become very confused if you do that(giggle)
Jeri

[Chasfield]

I have scratched the itch!

The old harness is lying in a heap after careful extraction.

So far, I have moved the ignition switch down to the left hand toolbox (a suitable blanked off hole was there already - I just had to make it a bit bigger) and I am about to install some black flexible spiral conduit for the under tank wiring runs.

I will seal this when all the wires are in because I noticed that the old harness casing has quite a lot of water trapped inside it.

Chas

[The Garbone]

Picture??

This sounds great BTW..  I am very interested in this.

 

[Blltrdr]

I have scratched the itch!

The old harness is lying in a heap after careful extraction.

So far, I have moved the ignition switch down to the left hand toolbox (a suitable blanked off hole was there already - I just had to make it a bit bigger) and I am about to install some black flexible spiral conduit for the under tank wiring runs.

I will seal this when all the wires are in because I noticed that the old harness casing has quite a lot of water trapped inside it.

Chas

 Chas, when I rewired my Bullet I ran my harness through my top tube. I drilled a hole into the bottom of the tube about half way from the rear of the gusset to the neck of the frame then ran it out the back. I also ran my alternator wires down the rear down tube and drilled out a hole near the bottom of the tube out the back side and another at the top of the tube; that one is the tuff one. Sized the holes  according to the grommets needed for the harness. Very clean look when finished!   Blltrdr

[Chasfield]

I will put up some pictures as I go along, and I will put up a circuit diagram, once it is proven.

Nothing much to show yet but the LH toolbox is coming along nicely. I have installed a blade type fuse holder (goodbye to the fall-apart standard one) and a battery isolation switch, which is sort of half concealed so is an aid to security.

I have scavenged the ignition switch multi-connector and 4 way wiring from the old harness. The relevant wires reach easily to the coil directly, so that has saved a bit of soldering iron work - and they are still well up to the job because they are only going to switch the ignition feed. Previously they switched all DC accessories too. I will retain the security feature that uses the ground pair to short out the points when the ignition is off. Makes the bike a little harder to hot wire, though a rogue doesn't need to be a rocket scientist to do that with any classic Bullet because all the key bits are so readily accessible.


Blltrdr
Just caught your post as I was about to put up my update. That sounds like a very neat solution. I think will stick to plan A though as I am trying to minimize metal bashing.

Chas

[Chasfield]

I have made some progress.  The wiring in the left hand toolbox is complete but needs to be cable-tied and tidied up a bit. The attached picture shows the various assemblies, including ignition switch, blade fuse holder, isolator switch and a kind of Christmas tree style junction box that I made. I will need something similar at the headlamp end to distribute 12 volts where it is required. "How come RE manage without such doohickeys?", I hear you ask. Well, their wiring nodes are hidden in the harness in the form of taped up butt joints...

I have also installed a new combined regulator/rectifier unit under the seat. Got it "buy now" off Ebay for about 25 GBP. All the main wiring runs up to the headlamp are in place. The next job is to merge the separate AC and DC alternator coils and hook up the reg/rec.

Things I have learnt:

1) A home brewed rewire takes ages. I have put in about 15 hours so far. I reckon I will need at least another 10 to complete the job.
2) All those extra little bits and pieces you need are expensive when added up. I have spend around 30 GBP on connectors, wire, shrink-wrap sleeving and other odds and ends.
3) My shed is cold!

[ace.cafe]

Chasfield,
That looks nice and neat, and easy to trace faults, if necessary.
Good looking job!

It does take time, but it can also save alot of time in future tracing of faults, and eliminating faults from occurring, so it can be viewed as "preventive", and time saving "in advance".

[Chasfield]

Thanks, Ace.

My general philosophy for the project:

Zero crimp connectors
Zero bullet connectors
Minimum wire runs

The end result will be workmanlike rather than beautiful.

Twenty odd years ago I did a fast-track electronic engineering course for technicians. Early on we were given a wiring exercise to do in order to brush up on our soldering, wire terminating and cable tying skills. I produced my usual functional but not very elegant interpretation. There was one guy on the course who had spent most of his working life wiring military hardware to exacting standards. His finished board was as beautiful as a Welsh harp! Very humbling.

[Chasfield]

More progress

The under seat area is all rewired. The  one-piece reg/rec looks tidy and, as a bonus, the wiring supplied with it fitted quite nicely with my harness, requiring only termination, with the exception of the 12V O/P line, which needed a spade connector and a bit more red wire. The AC regulator has gone into my spare bits box and the fanatic in me thought about siting the flasher unit up in the bows to minimize the number of under-tank wire runs but I can't see anywhere neat to put it, and I don't want to end up with a crowded headlamp shell because that is where I started out from.

I merged the AC and DC alternator coils successfully. Two analogue multi-meters, set on their 0-2 volts scales, and a few presses of the kick-start quickly showed up the phasing of the two sets of windings. On my stator, red and orange wires are now commoned together to form one AC output and yellow and black form the other. In this configuration the reg/rec showed a healthy DC output following further presses on the kick-start. I wouldn't assume any other Bullets use consistent colours for the 4-wire alternator. I think if you commoned the outputs the wrong way you would either get no output, or the stator would overheat very quickly. Electrical knowledge and appropriate meter tests are essential here.

Only the headlamp is left to do. Into the valley...

 

[geoffbaker]

It's looking good, chasfield!

I look forward to the next updates.

Someday I may run all my electrics through the top tube, it would make things so much neater.

In my toolbox I put in a modern auto fuseblock and four fuses to run accessories and meters; that really cleaned things up by centralizing the fuses.

Electrics are slow and painstaking to do, but very rewarding because in the end you have a much more reliable bike AND you are much more familiar with the system and thus better at troubleshooting...

[Jeri Danger]

My general philosophy for the project:

Zero crimp connectors
Zero bullet connectors
Minimum wire runs

Hi
Oh, my kind of bullet(no bullet connectors)
Jeri

[Chasfield]

Shed extremely cold ... vision blurring. I survive by warming myself with my shrink wrap heat gun.

Am deep into the headlamp. Trying to lay out wiring in a peripheral circular pattern so that all is not just stuffed in behind the headlamp bowl.

Temperature is down to 34 F.

Tomorrow's day time max will be 28 F.

Probably have to eat one of my huskys to survive...

[t120rbullet]

Temperature is down to 34 F.

Tomorrow's day time max will be 28 F.

Sounds like your going to be missing some good riding weather

Which "1 piece" regulator did you end up using?

[Chasfield]

It is a Wassell Power Module and is the single phase 12V 160 Watt version. I will post a picture of the under seat installation soon.

I can't say how well it works just yet though.

[Chasfield]

The end is in sight. I just have to hook up the turn signals and tidy up and tie a back the harness.

I am a bit disappointed with the way the headlamp wiring is turning out. It is still going to be fairly crowded place, though a bit neater than it was before. At least the wiring is new and I know what each one does.

This has been a tougher project than I expected it would be - I have discovered that the wiring harness is the most complex subassembly on the machine.

[Rick Sperko]

Did all the huskys survive? Very cool work you are doing.

I picked up propane heater for my garage and am very grateful for it.

-Rick

[geoffbaker]

. .. and I know what each one does.

That's the big gain... understanding another part of the puzzle!

[Chasfield]

Did all the huskys survive? Very cool work you are doing.

The Huskys made it. I went inside for a biscuit and a cup o' tea instead!

 

[Chasfield]

Finished at last.

I powered the bike from a low current 12V source to make sure everything worked before putting on the battery.

I had a couple of glitches.

1) I thought I had no warning lights working on the speedometer - it turned out I hadn't put the bulbs back in.
2) I wired in some green LEDs for speedometer illumination. At the moment they also come on when the brake light switches are actuated. There must be a poor ground connection in the tail light assembly and the tiny current required for the LEDs is provided by leakage back through the tail light filament. In actual fact this a good diagnostic feature because I know that both tail and brake light filaments are good when the LEDs come on.

I have attached a picture of the headlamp wiring. It hasn't turned out quite as tidy as I wanted but there is a bit less spagetti and more space where the headlamp bowl goes. Important features are:

1) The ground stud at lower left - this also fixed the stripped threads I had suffered where the headlamp rim location screw goes into the casquette.
2) Insulated 12V tree terminal at upper right. This has a feed from the positive side of the ammeter and sends 12V wherever it is needed.
3) One original green multi-plug retained at left. Two other larger multi plugs, intended for car audio installations, were added.
4) I stuck with the stock handlebar switch clusters.
Changing over to generics items would now be relatively straightforward. It was the integrated valve lifting leaver which swung the balance in favour of staying with the stock items,
5) Secondary 10A lighting fuse under the speedometer. A lot of people seem to suffer from shorts in minor circuits that take out the main fuse and leave them stranded. This fixes that problem for a large part of the harness.

I will do some more cable tidying and come back with a couple more pictures.

I have managed a road test and all went well.

[Rick Sperko]

wow, very nice.

[Cabo Cruz]

WOWZAA!!!

[baird4444]

Very tidy indeed!! Yours makes a factory wiring look 100 times worse!
It has been said even in stock wiring with individual ground wires that
a ground strap may save pitting of the bearings in the yoke do to
grounding thru them. With you grounding directly to the casquette do
you see the need for the strap??
I am curious cause I have grounded my aux. bright driving light the
same way and have wondered about it.
          - Mike

[Blltrdr]

 

Very tidy indeed!! Yours makes a factory wiring look 100 times worse!
It has been said even in stock wiring with individual ground wires that
a ground strap may save pitting of the bearings in the yoke do to
grounding thru them. With you grounding directly to the casquette do
you see the need for the strap??
I am curious cause I have grounded my aux. bright driving light the
same way and have wondered about it.
          - Mike

 When I rewired my bike I ran a separate ground wire from my main grounding point on frame under seat into my casquette to the triple tree and back into the casquette to supply my grounds. Since the triple tree makes contact through the bearings to the frame this gave me solid grounding from front to rear. No more grounding problems!

[Chasfield]

Like Blltrdr, I ran a ground wire back to the main frame grounding point - in my case now, a stud in the left toolbox.   I used 17 amp vehicle wire so earthing is good and the head bearings are safe.

Chas

[Chasfield]

I have had a few more rides since my last post. The new electrical system is performing well.

Attached is a picture of the under seat area. I am pleased with the way this turned out. Quite a bit less spaghetti here.

Points of interest are:

1) At centre right is the one-piece regulator rectifier unit made by Wassell. It seems to be working fine and I don't think my alternator is over-stressing it in any way (I wasn't really worried that it would!). I added a support bracket to stop the reg/rec flapping around on a single bolt.

2) At centre left is the aft end of the under tank spiral conduit. I will hide the wires where they enter the toolbox, maybe with a short section of split hose rather than insulation tape. I suppose I could have fed it in a bit closer to the tool box but quite a few wires branch out from this area.

So far so good.

 

[geoffbaker]

Very nice, Chas!

I think you have motivated me. When I'm done this summer with my big ride (still planning MX-CAN on 10 gallons of biodiesel)... and limp home on the bike... my next big project wil be to redo the wiring completely, making it actually BULLET-proof

Phases will include wiring through the main tube, upgrading to a one piece reg/rec(?), switching to all DC (?) cleaning up the toolbox & headlamp, and converting the headlamp to HID (though I may do this before the trip).

What do people recommend for the best, BULLETproof connectors?

[Chasfield]

As regards connectors:

I soldered them all and used a mixture of ring terminals for connection to the ground and 12V distribution studs, and spade terminals with hoods for connection to the switch clusters and other components that required them. All connectors were shrink wrapped. There are a few soldered bullet connectors too.

My only concern is fatigue resistance under vibration of all those soldered connections, so I will be adding more cable ties and blobs of RTV sealer to add support where it is needed.

NB, this whole escapade took way more time than I expected. I put about 50 hours of shed time into it. Some of this was spent banging my head on the wall and backtracking. Just how many times can a man forget to put the piece of shrink wrap on the wire before soldering the connector?

 

[geoffbaker]

Just how many times can a man forget to put the piece of shrink wrap on the wire before soldering the connector?

 

In my case, I believe that's EVERY time

[Jeri Danger]

Hi
I think the best connector is solder and heatshrink(no connector)
Jeri

[Chasfield]

In case anybody is curious, I am posting a circuit diagram for my Bullet rewire. It is in the form of a jpeg image exported at about 200 dpi. I disclaim any responsibility for any problems others encounter if they make use of it. All I can say is that it is working ok for me at the moment. I am not an electrical engineer - just an amateur that is reasonably handy with a soldering iron.

A few notes:

1) All headlamp accessories are grounded on a common stud - this is not shown explicitly in the diagram.
2) That stud is wired back to the main earth stud, which lives in the toolbox. All rear-of-bike accessories are grounded on this so there is no dependence on bits of rusty frame for earth continuity.
3) There are two 12V distribution nodes - one in the left hand tool box, near where the ignition switch now lives, and one in the headlamp that is cable tied to the left fork stanchion. These are just decent quality plated M6 screws which lock together the two bundles of ring terminals for the 12V feeds. The screws are shrouded in home-made slotted plastic sleeves retained by cable ties.
4) Two multi-connectors and associated wiring were retained from the original harness. These are the green 4-way one that feeds in power to the left handlebar control module, and the white 4 way one that connects in the ignition switch.  The black 4-way one that handles outputs from the   control module was replaced with a new one. A further new 4-way connector was used to connect the speedometer warning lights.

[The Garbone]

Very well done.  I think its better than the factory sketch and the fact it shows the under tank run is great...

+1

[geoffbaker]

NIce!

KEVIN

We need a place on the forum where we can upload/download files like these for public distribution...

Just a thought.

[Chasfield]

Thanks, guys.

A bit of colour makes any circuit easier to read, because you can make lines cross each other without causing confusion.

A feature of the circuit worth highlighting is the engine stop switch arrangement. On the stock harness this interrupts the coil-to-points line. On my circuit it acts to short out the points, making it as if they were closed all the time. This inverts the operation of the switch - closing it kills the motor. Previously, opening it would perform that action. The disadvantage of my arrangement is that if it is left closed it will run the battery down, even if the points are open - some coils might get a bit warm in this situation. The answer here is not to be forgetful about leaving the ignition switched on.
The advantage is that the wiring runs around the ignition circuit are very short, instead of going all over the bike and back through numerous connectors.

[Gexx]

Hi Chas
Getting the phasing right should not be a thing.
Do this(its like this on my bike)
Find the yellow and Orange(amber)pair from the alternator.
Jump the yellow to one of the purple rectifier inputs(make sure it only goes there)
Measure between the Orange wire and the other purple with your voltmeter.
Note the reading and connection.
Now disconnect the yellow from whatever purple wire and connect it to
the other purple
Measure with your voltmeter from the Orange to the other purple wire.
Note the reading and the connection.
Now simply pick the setup that gave the lowest reading(in volts) between the Orange
and purple wires.
You are done sugar.
The alternater now should be in phase.
Oh! do all of the above with the bike running of course.
I am
Jeri Danger!!!

Hello all, sorry for re-opening that old Thread...but sometimes old things should be reactivated (like many of our Enfields  )

I'm just into my AC headlight conversion to all DC
Pete's manual and also this thread shows the connection of the coils from the Headlight circuit in parallel to the coils of the DC circuit. That's why you must check that the coils are in phase.

For me it was clear until I had a short conversation with an older local Enfield expert
He said to me that I shouldn't connect it in parallel but in serial.


Serial means at the 4 wire enfield:
Connect one of the two purple wires (from the existing DC circuit - alternator to rectifier) with one of the two wire from the alternator to the AC regulator. (Could be the amber or yellow wire). Insulate that connection
The remaining free wires (one violett and one amber or yellow) will be the two wires to the reg/rectifier

I'm not really involved in electricity topics, only basic knowledge. So I can't explain why serial connection is recommended from that older guy

Does anybody has any clue what would be the benefit of a serial connection?

Best regards
Robert

[AzCal Retred]

3 wire - There are 3 x 20W stator coils. Originally one coil kept up with brake & ignition loads, then the remaining paralleled pair were switched in to run the headlamp, tail lamp & instrument lights. The coils have a common factory neutral. The other two "output" wires are connected to either the single coil or the paralleled pair. ID-ing them goes like this: Common to a single coil output is "X" ohms; Common to paralleled coils output is X/2 ohms. Output single to output paralleled is 1.5 X ohms.

4 wire - same 3 x 20W coils, just the "common" legs are brought out separately.

You can't "series" anything on a 3-wire unless you delve in & create your own common legs like the 4 wire stator has. Word on the street is that often the 6V stator will carry a 12V reg/rec. I have no personal knowledge as to if they will, just what I hear.

[Gexx]

The guy who told me the series connection means the 4 wire version. As you explainend it has 2 coils pairs paralleled and 1 coil pair. The single coil pair feed the AC circuit for the headlamps and the paralleled 2 coil pairs feeding the whole DC circuit

If I unterstand correctly the highest output I can get from the alternator to feed the 12V reg/rec is to connect the single coil pair in parallel to the other 2 coil pairs. 
If I would connect the single coil pair in series to the paralleled two coil pairs (as the guy recommended to me) the output would decreasing. This would make no sense...feeding additional the headlamp in the DC circuit but reducing the possible output. 

Thanks
Best regards
Robert

[stinkwheel]

I did at one point wonder if you could lift the solder joints in the stator and re-jig it so it had three pairs then run them into a 3-phase reg/rec... Then I decided down that path lies madness and fitted a 2-wire stator.

[Gexx]

But you convert the 4 wire to 2 wire by paralleled connection? It means the yellow wire to one of the purple wires and the amber wire to the other purple wire. Both wire pairs are the input wires to reg/rec unit

Robert

[SteveThackery]

 
If I would connect the single coil pair in series to the paralleled two coil pairs (as the guy recommended to me) the output would decreasing. This would make no sense...feeding additional the headlamp in the DC circuit but reducing the possible output. 

I'm having trouble following this thread, but your paragraph above rang a little bell in my mind.

You should only connect generator coils in parallel if they are in phase. If they aren't in phase then each coil absorbs some of the energy from the other, the end result being very hot coils and a greatly reduced output.

I'm sorry if I have misunderstood and got the wrong end of the stick.

[Gexx]

Find the yellow and Orange(amber)pair from the alternator.
Jump the yellow to one of the purple rectifier inputs(make sure it only goes there)
Measure between the Orange wire and the other purple with your voltmeter.
Note the reading and connection.
Now disconnect the yellow from whatever purple wire and connect it to
the other purple
Measure with your voltmeter from the Orange to the other purple wire.
Note the reading and the connection.
Now simply pick the setup that gave the lowest reading(in volts) between the Orange
and purple wires.
You are done sugar.
The alternater now should be in phase.

Yes, you are right. Out of phase connection wouldn't work.
Jeri shared a method in this thread how to find out the correct in-phase connection (see quote above)

That's nearly the same like Pete Snidal explain in his manual.
 
Maybe thats the reason why here the local guy recommend to connect the single coil pair in series to the the two other coil pairs. Reduced overall output but it's better than a out of phase connection.

[Gexx]

I got some more informations. It seems the the alternator of Bullets with the AC Headlight (and 4 wire alternator) did have different coils. It wouldn't be like the typical Lucas Style alternators with 3 pair of coils with same spec.
If thats the truth you can't connect it paralleled.

I found also a picture of the alternator at Hitchcock. You can see the purple wired coils for the DC circuit and the yellow/ amber wires for the AC circuit coils.
For me it's hard to see on the picture but it seems that every circuit has 3 coils instead of 2 pairs of coils. The AC circuit coils (yellow/amber) seems to be connected in series

Can anyone see at the picture how the coils are connected?

Robert

[Adrian II]

Just to muddy the water a bit (well it's a forum, what did you expect?), I found this interesting note in the Snidal manual,

With the 4-wire system, 4 of the 6 stator coils are connected to the pair destined for the headlight AC feed (orange and yellow), connected to the Headlamp Common and the Dip Switch. The remaining 2 coils connect to the other pair, (usually both purple, but may also be black and red) which feed the DC side of the system through the Rectifier, to provide power for the ignition and other lights, any remainder going to charge the battery.

So if yer maun is correct (and I should probably have another look at the picture above), TWO THIRDS of the alternator output is purely for the headlight. Hmm. I recently sourced a 4 wire alternator as a rotor donor for a Lucas stator (have you seen Lucas' prices lately?), unusually for an Indian rotor it has an all-alloy cast body around the magnets more like the Lucas items. As there were problems with the Lucas stator I ended up fitting the whole Indian alternator.

My point is that with two thirds rather than half of the output coming down the yellow and orange wires, why not just convert all the lights to LED to reduce the overall demand (local regulations permitting), and run the yellow and orange wires to the reg/rectifier as they should then deliver enough juice to run the whole (now DC) electrical system on their own? That's what I'll be doing, if it's successful I can just ignore pairing up the two purple wires.



In my case the stator is noticeably fatter/deeper/whatever than the normal Indian stators which makes me wonder if it's a higher output item than some. We shall see. And yes, there is still enough thread in the rotor sleeve nut to engage the end of the crankshaft...

If the alternator coils ARE two sets of three, and not four + two, then the headlight output on its own might not be sufficient, therefore please ignore this post! However THIS one does appear to be four + two and nor three + three.

A.

[stinkwheel]

The simplest thing would be to just forget about the yeloow and amber, convert to DC using the existing charging system yellow and fit LED bulbs. Yes, pairing in the yellow and amber will give you more output but you don't actually need it if you are using LEDs. My totally LED converted, DC only 612 buillet draws a maximum of 4A with the points closed, headlamp on, brakelight on and flashers on. The horn by itself draws more than all the other electrics combined.

[AzCal Retred]

There are 6 individual coils on the stator. Two individual coils are connected in series to make one output coil. One stator coil sees a (S) rotor pole and the other sees a (N) pole. You end up with 3 output coils. Open circuit AC voltages of these coils can hit 30 VAC. The Reg/Rec does the voodoo necessary to make it into 12 VDC.

The Rotor has 3 magnetic fields (N-S). These align with the 3 output coil pairs. There is no angular displacement to create 3-phase built in, all coils rise & fall at the same time.

Output coil AC voltage depends on rotor magnetic field strength, stator/rotor gap and engine RPM. More spin = more voltage. These coils are built to supply approximately 20W each. Two output coils in parallel supply 40W. Headlight bulbs are nominally 35 W. The paralleled coils feed the headlight. The solitary 20W coil charges the battery. The battery keeps up with spark ignition load and intermittent horn, turn signal & brake light usage.

The 3-wire already has a common "neutral". The output coils parallel to feed a nominal 60W capacity to the Reg/Rec to keep the battery charged.

The 4 wire has the paralleled 40W coils sent to an AC voltage regulator which prevents coil voltage from exceeding a nominal 14VAC-15VAC so it doesn't kill filaments. The single 20W output coil feeds the Reg/Rec and thus the battery. The Reg/Rec on the 4-wire machines has the same part number as used on the 3-wire machines.

4-wire coil parallels: Mark the output leads A,B for the single pair and C,D for the paralleled pair. Marking & testing the leads yourself frees you from depending on the factory coloring to be right. The A/B pair will have about double the resistance of the paralleled C/D pair.
> The single pair makes about the same open circuit voltage across its open circuit leads as the paralleled pair. They are electrically isolated, you can (and must) verify this via ohm meter. As long as the leads are not connected to any circuit, you are just looking at coil voltages produced in response to the rotor magnet motion, there is no current flow to heat anything up.
> If you tie a lead from the single pair (B) to (D) of the paralleled pair and run the engine, the AC voltage read will either be about double the isolated value (45-60 VAC vs. 20-30 VAC) or else much lower (5-10 VAC). If doubled, you have a "nose to tail" series connection. You don't want that. If very low, the coils are "in phase" (tail to tail) as the instantaneous voltages between wires are nearly the same. The coils behave very similarly to batteries in series or parallel connection configuration.
>If B/D produces a low measured AC voltage between wires A/C, you have your connections. If not, retest using B/C. RPM must remain fairly constant at about 2000 (fast idle?) between readings.

> Myself, I'd just get the 120W Lucas bits like Stinkwheel did and enjoy having enough power to run some accessories and maybe a halogen bulb if I was so inclined. The OEM 60W system is pretty anemic by modern standards. I don't ride at night, so it's an academic point. Save the OEM bits for the next guy.

[Gexx]

So if yer maun is correct (and I should probably have another look at the picture above), TWO THIRDS of the alternator output is purely for the headlight.

That's interesting and it seems that I was the whole time on the wrong way...I thought that the single coil pair feed the headlight and the two pairs the 12V reg/rec.  I'm just looking in my Snidal book and maybe I've an old version, but this version show the single pair feeding the headlight.

[Adrian II]

I have the CD edition, so no page numbers, but more quotes:

4 of the 6 alternator stator coils feed the AC lighting system without going through the AC:DC rectifier - with an AC regulator connected in parallel to "crowbar" down the voltage when it gets too high. Note that the "common" AC line on the headlamp - the one which feeds one side of both the low and high beams (shown as amber in the drawing) is NOT grounded - ie, there is no connection to chassis ground.

AC-DC system incorporates only one pair of alternator coils for rectifier, allots other two to AC Light

So if he IS wrong, he is wrong at least three times! 

A.

[AzCal Retred]

Olde Skool OEM Bullet set up, 1977 to 1989 Hitchcock's 350 Bullet manual, Pg. 61:
3. Circuit Detail The alternator stator carries three pairs of series-connected coils, one pair being permanently connected across the rectifier bridge network. The purpose of this latter pair is to provide some degree of charging current for the battery whenever the engine is running. Connections to the remaining coils vary according to the position of the lighting and ignition switch controls, as shown schematically in figure. When no lights are in use the alternator output is regulated to its minimum value by interaction of the rotor flux and the flux set up by current flowing in the short-circuited coils. In the 'pilot' position these coils are disconnected and the regulating fluxes are consequently reduced. The alternator output therefore increases and compensates for the additional parking light load. In the 'Head' position the alternator output is further increased by connecting all three pairs of coils in parallel.

A single coil carries normal loads. The paralleled pair comes into play for headlight use. This makes sense as headlight bulbs routinely run 25-35W. It would take 2/3 of the 60W alternator output to reliably cover the lighting load as output is RPM dependent.

In any event, use the ohmmeter to ID the two sets of output coils. Open lead voltages can be used to determine polarity/"phasing" as described. Once paralleled you can feed the two active AC output leads into the Reg/Rec. You'll also need to see what needs to happen with your handlebar switches and remove the AC regulator.

[Adrian II]

You'll also need to see what needs to happen with your handlebar switches and remove the AC regulator.

Fortunately there is only some minor re-wiring needed, assuming Minda left-hand switchgear, which I have successfully used on all-DC Bullet lighting. For the now DC feed to the headlamp, the red and white wire and the yellow wire can be connected to the ammeter, the dip switch will function as before, BUT DISCONNECT THE RED AND YELLOW WIRE from the terminal block, and if you're waving good bye to AC headlights for good, chop off the 2.8mm connector and tie a knot in the wire as a reminder not to use it again!



The orange or amber wire from the headlamp bulb holder and the main beam warning light can now become earth/ground wires connected to the nearest suitable earth point at the front end of the bike.

Not part of this topic (but worth repeating anyway) is the running of a dedicated earth wire from the front end to the middle of the bike where the battery earth is, if your wiring loom doesn't already have one. Greased steering head bearings aren't the best electrical path.

A.

[Gexx]

Hi Adrian, do you have a switchable headlight?
On my Bullet the AC Headlight is switchable on the right handed switch together with the pilot lamps. So it seems that I have a different wiring.
Red/yellow isn't in my wiring to the headlight. It's the 12V+ wire from the Ammeter to reg/rec unit

For the headlight I have yellow (12V+ input for the right handed switch for the light). The switch connect yellow to yellow/Red, which goes to the input of the lefthanded switch for HI/Low Beam. This switch connect the yellow/Red with green or blue wire, which goes to the headlight.


Best regards
Robert

[Adrian II]

From your avatar I can see an electric start, so your switches could well be different from the kick start model's, which I had in mind. The principle is the same, what was the AC feed to the headlamp on/off switch now comes off the ammeter. The usual Minda set-up for kick start models is for the left hand switch to control lights, dip, horn and indicators, the right hand switch incorporated in the twist grip body is just a kill switch.

My old E/S Electra-X had the main light switch on the right hand cluster though the lights were all DC. The left hand only had dip, indicator and horn to worry about.

Maybe post a picture of what switches yours has to confirm?

A.

[Gexx]

I just found a picture from my Bullet with the original Switches. I changed it to old 70's style switches . Thats is one of the reason why I will convert to full DC.  These old 70's style switches can't handle AC and DC simultaneously

Best regards
Robert

[Adrian II]

They weren't meant to. Your original switches in the photo are Indian copies of Suzuki items.

A.

[Gexx]

...and as it's not confused enough I got today new informations regarding the alternator coils.

The 4-wire alternators (maybe this is limited to Export Bullet for European market, 5 gearbox) didn't have 2 pairs of paralleled coils and 1 single pair.
They have 3 coils connected in series for the DC circuit (purple/purple) and 3 coils connected in series for the AC circuit (yellow/amber)

The coils for DC have a different wiring compared to the coils for AC.  Thats why I got the recommentation not to connect it in parallel but in series.

Robert

 

[Gexx]

Hello AgentX
I have the 4 wires correct. In the stator the violet wires go to 3 coils of light wire in series, each coil being about 1 ohm so the resistance between the violet wires is around 3 ohms. The orange and yellow wires go to 3 coils of heavier wire in series, each about .3 ohms so the resistance between orange and yellow is around .9 ohms

I found this at another Thread...it was also a Bullet with Electric-start. It seems to be the truth that the alternator has 2x 3 coils in series

[Adrian II]

Another look at the picture of the stator Hitchcock's have for sale suggests that's true. I strongly suspect it comes down to who made the thing, Minda (OEM?) or another Indian (pattern) electrical parts supplier like Swiss. The one I fitted would appear to be 4+2 rather than 3+3, and from the rotor I'd say it's definitely a pattern part, although a quite decent one.

A.

[stinkwheel]

On the subject of charging systems. i just fitted this reg/rec unit to my little Soviet 125. This one is off a Yamaha R1, picked it up for £25 off ebay. These are one of the best ones out there just now, they all look the same, some have one grey and one black socket. They use them on a lot of different bikes and also quads and skidoos, worth a mooch about on ebay to see if you can pick up a bargain (I'd suggest searching for used reg/recs, arranged by cheapest first and scroll down until you see one that looks like that). Beware Chinese copies, go for a used OEM one.

You can also buy a set of the correct (Chinese copy) connector blocks to hook them in for about a tenner on Amazon. I've just got it temporarily rigged up at the moment but I'll fit the connectors once it's all up and running. It's designed to take three phases but they run quite happily on two.

[Adrian II]

This one came with my 350 Bullet, fitted by some previous owner - anyone here recognize it?





A.

[stinkwheel]

It's a Honda type as fitted to CB500s among others, or a Chinese copy of one.

[Adrian II]

Thank you, SW. It has been replaced by a more conventional universal item, albeit with a capacitor in it.

A.