Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum

Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Vintage Royal Enfield => Topic started by: grumbern on June 05, 2015, 01:28:26 pm

Title: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 05, 2015, 01:28:26 pm
Hi erveryone,
my name is Andreas, I'm from Germany and currently restoring a 1959 Chief! Many parts are missing, but I'm positiv I'll get them. I can see there are some members here who own Chiefs and I'm hoping you can help me with one or another question, that I will surely have during this build.

First of all, does anyone have any further information about the history of the bike? The numbers are PC50007 on the motor and 4759 right / 8823 left oft frame. I assume it could be a police bike, since it has the 150mph speedo fitted.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on June 05, 2015, 02:29:19 pm
Join the REOC club in Britain they'll have info on what you own.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 05, 2015, 04:51:47 pm
Just for the record, here's my 350, that I restored and was my first "big" bike  ;)

(http://provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/enfield/bullet.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 28, 2015, 12:34:45 pm
Thought I'd give you some pics of the current status of my Chief!

Started out with something like that:
(http://up.picr.de/16732873ms.jpg)
(http://up.picr.de/16736655wf.jpg)

The motor was taken apart:
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_002.jpg)
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_008.jpg)
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_029.jpg)

A little cleaning:
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_033.jpg)

New parts:
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_034.jpg)

Some modifications to the crank case:
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_040.jpg)
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_042.jpg)
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_043.jpg)

Soda blasting!
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_044.jpg)
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_045.jpg)
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_046.jpg)

Fixing the speedo:
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_049.jpg)
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_052.jpg)
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_053.jpg)

Bezel from a damaged aftermarket Harley speedo, which I got very cheap :)
(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_062.jpg)

I allso got back ma cylinders from reboring and honing, but the last weeks time just didn't allow any work on the bike. but I got lots of information from Phil, Charles and Graham. He told me my bike is from November 14th 1959 and was finished in polychromatic burgundy!
Now I am waiting for some more parts to arrive and some time to work on the parts I have ;D
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on June 28, 2015, 06:25:40 pm
It looks like this one is being restored to a high standard,  good work.  :)

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 28, 2015, 09:21:13 pm
Hi Adrian,
at first I wanted to build a mild Café Racer, since I only got the frame, motor, gearbox and some minor parts. The thought was, to just put a single seat, rearsets and some aluminum fenders on it and make it a nice, period correct souped up bike.
The more I found out about the chief, and how rare these are, I just couldn't do it. There are so much more Connies and Meteors out there for such a project, it would have been a shame, to not use the opportunity, to rebuild that bike.

Well, long story short: It's gonna be as near original as I can get.

I found a kick stand for it, the kind that mounts to the front engine plate. I saw many pics of Indians having that one, but none that show exactly, how it is mounted. Am I right, that an additional hole has to be drilled, somewhere between the lower and the middle stud?
Allso, has anybody a good pic from the bottom side of the seat?
Thanks,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on June 29, 2015, 08:35:25 pm
This site might be of interest, if you have not already found it.

http://www.re-indian.com/

http://www.re-indian.com/bikes.html

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 30, 2015, 12:20:54 pm
Hi,
Phil's site is well known to me, since I am corresponding with hin for some time now ;)
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on June 30, 2015, 11:39:19 pm
I was told by a guy at Hitchcocks the front mount side stand isn't very strong for a bike that heavy he told me to use the center mount side stands that come on the Interceptors.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on August 10, 2015, 09:48:57 am
Gearbox got new bearings and internals been put together:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_066.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_067.jpg)


Cylinders are rebored, honed, blasted and painted:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_073.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_074.jpg)


Last but not least, the Big hole in the nacelle welded. Don't know, if I just fill the remaining step, or weld some material on there to grind it down...

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_075.jpg)


Right now I am waiting for lots of parts to arrive but can#t find the time to really work on the parts that are here. I just use some time to clean and polish and get some little things done.

Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on August 21, 2015, 07:17:33 pm
Worked some more on the speedo:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_077.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_078.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_079.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_080.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_081.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_082.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_086.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_087.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_088.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_089.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_090.jpg)

Unfortunately I don't have any red paint here, so the needle is gonna have to wait a little.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ace.cafe on August 21, 2015, 09:09:48 pm
Looks great.
Very nice work!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on August 21, 2015, 11:04:56 pm
I agree with Ace VERY NICE.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on August 22, 2015, 12:24:40 am
Holy crap!  All with a block of wood on a drill press!

(http://cdn.head-fi.org/1/17/1714e159_bow_down.gif)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on August 23, 2015, 05:56:36 pm
Thanks! :)
I wanted to put new bearings in the motor today, but a friend had bad noise from his Bullet's motor, so we had to take a look at that. But I could do at least a little bit, now the needle is red and mounted:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_091.jpg)

Not so bad, considering it looked like this before :'(

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_049.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Ice on August 23, 2015, 07:57:40 pm
Looking good, nice work !
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on August 26, 2015, 04:44:04 am
Nice work on that speedo!  Beyond my capabilities.  :)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on September 05, 2015, 10:14:39 am
The motor got it's new bearings and is roughly put together. Haven't got the screws done yet (still need plating)...

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_093.jpg)


Here you can see the O-ring I added to prevent leaking from behind the cylinders:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_092.jpg)

So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on September 05, 2015, 01:36:20 pm
Nice job adding the oring. They definitely leak there.  ERC 
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on September 08, 2015, 11:32:56 am
I have a lot of bolts to clean (as you might imagine) and neither the time, nor intention to do that all by hand. So I just "built" a very, very simple tumbler, but it works quite well ;D

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_094.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_095.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_096.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_097.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on September 08, 2015, 12:30:20 pm
Is that a random orbital sander?  You, my friend, are a genius!

What did you use as a "cleaning" medium?
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on September 08, 2015, 06:04:28 pm
Yes, it is! The medium is just sand. Still lot's of potential for improvements :P
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on September 18, 2015, 01:48:33 pm
Very clever with that tumbler.  I always just take my bolts the bench grinder with the brush wheel.  Your way looks way easier.  Haha
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on September 19, 2015, 08:22:12 am
Yes, I first cleaned everything with a brush and petroleum, but with all the small parts (little bolts, nuts etc.) that just seemed too much. The tumbler works quite good and I am planning on building a bigger one.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Arizoni on September 19, 2015, 10:54:40 pm
It looks like I've found another use for my Cartridge Case Tumbler.

Now, I'll just have to find some rusty old bolts to try it on. :)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on September 27, 2015, 11:53:12 pm
Friday I was able to collect the first load of zinc platet small parts. For only €35, it was a fair price I guess:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_099.jpg)


But the bad thing: A bolt and a washer are missing. What really bad about it: I previously just bought that washer! Well, I'll have to call and see, if they found anything. Else I'll have to order again.

last but not least I found out, that the taps of the gearbox I repaired weren#t supposed to be 1/4" BSW, but 1/4" BSC! My bad. Of course nothing fits now and I have to dismantle everything, remove the coils, weld and retap. Naturally nobody I know has a BSC tap set. Could it be any better?  ::)
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on September 28, 2015, 01:05:36 am
The British motorcycle industry loved fine threads, even in aluminium castings. For what it's worth the Indian Bullet engines took their time going metric, I believe that even the AVL engined Electra-X still has 3/8" BSC gearbox studs.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Ice on September 28, 2015, 04:16:43 am
 Subscribed  ;)  :D
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on September 28, 2015, 11:07:01 pm
Man, how embarrassing! Everything's ok but I let myself get fooled. The bolts just went a little hard in the coils, so I thought the tpi was wrong. Using a wrench, it felt rather easy though. You just forget that you have basicly a spring and not a tap you screw the bolt into.

As you see a bolt is still missing. Still some work to do on the bearing retainer, since the oil trower is touching it while turning the shaft. That aside, I believe that's the shiniest albion gear shift mechanism I ever saw ;D

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_100.jpg)


Making progress!
Cheers,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 04, 2015, 03:52:54 pm
Just a few steps further ahead:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_101.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_102.jpg)


Man, that one's gonna be sweet!
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on October 05, 2015, 11:20:01 pm
The sewing machine helps with assembly.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 06, 2015, 10:03:09 am
It's my girlfriends living room ;)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Ice on October 08, 2015, 12:02:45 pm
She's a keeper  ;)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: phoenixt on October 08, 2015, 03:19:00 pm
She's a keeper  ;)

She sews and lets you work on your bike in the house? Most definetly a keeper.

Steve

Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 09, 2015, 11:39:01 am
 ;D

We like to work on our projects together, and since the motor is clean and I hand only to do some assembly work, it's ok to do it in the living room ;)
The table is mine, by the way, so no worries if I ruin it (well, that happened already before it was destined as a work bench, that's why it is used as such) ::)

"Keeping" her for over two years now, and built/customized her a bike, too :-*
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: phoenixt on October 09, 2015, 01:45:18 pm
... and built/customized her a bike, too :-*
Andreas

Sounds like you are a keeper too.  :)

Steve
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 09, 2015, 10:06:41 pm
I'm sure she sees it the same way  ;)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 20, 2015, 06:47:59 am
The cam shaft caps were badly damaged, so I had to grind them. Since my lathe isn't in working order, I had to improvise. Uing a 12mm Allen bolt and some tape, the cap fits snuggly and you are free to work as you wish:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_103.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_104.jpg)


After some polishing:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_105.jpg)

P.S.: The Chief has two exhaust cams (thus symmetrical cam timing)!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 06, 2015, 12:09:14 pm
Since I already had the TiG-welder built up for some cylinder repair, I fixed the primary case right away. Both sides will be out of sight once mounted, so no need to grind here. The beads look that rancid, because I had to "cook" out all the bubbles, that showed up right after the arc fired up. When that happens, you have no choice but to hold the arc and wait until all bubbles disappear.

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_106.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_107.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_108.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_109.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_110.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_111.jpg)

Nobody knows what they put into the melting potback in the days, but it's not very nice to weld. :P
But the "Grüneck" paint remover ain't that bad at all:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_112.jpg)


Also, my tool box arrived! Quite a catch for only €35 including shipping from Austria:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_113.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_114.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_115.jpg)

The paint sucks, but in that case it's a "pro", because it's easier for me to get it clean.
Some minor dings, unnecessary holes but I can fix that!

And I glass blasted the heads:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_116.jpg)

Usually I am not that big a fan of that treatment, the finish seems just a bit too shiney. but in that case there was too much corrosion.
One tap is pulled and I'll have to weld that. And the heads are to be trued.
Let's see, how it turns out
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on December 06, 2015, 12:27:45 pm
Thanks for the update - I've been wondering how it's been going...
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 06, 2015, 01:26:49 pm
Slow, but steady ::)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on December 06, 2015, 01:52:18 pm
What model is the box you have off? The original Chiefs had the key switch in the box.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 06, 2015, 02:29:27 pm
Right! The hole I still have to cut/drill. This was originally taken from an early '50s AJS/Matchless, like this one:

(http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/gallery/ajs/1954-ajs-model-16-760x570.jpg)

Good thing to know, since the posibillity to find one, that belonged to a Chief, should be close to zero.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on December 06, 2015, 05:38:40 pm
Nice choice to replace a very scarce item. ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 06, 2015, 07:43:12 pm
It's exactly the same, with exception of the hole pattern. Easy to modify to fit the Chief. Beware of the "cheap" (not very cheap, regarding the price) copies from India. I had one of these before I found that one and they do not match in looks an quality.
Oh dear, If my writing is any worse than usually, blame the whisky. I come directly from our (whisky-) clubs Christmas party ;D
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 07, 2016, 09:34:09 pm
Done some stuff...

Some corrosion and distortion on the heads:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_117.jpg)


After some initial lapping:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_118.jpg)


Still a lot to do:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_119.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_120.jpg)


Lapped them beginning with 60, 100, 320 to 500 grain. Now it looks much nicer and might give a little more compression ;)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_122.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_123.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on January 08, 2016, 02:27:42 am
Very satisfying to see a proper joint face emerging.

I had to do the same with a brand new Electra-X cylinder head, not because of corrosion, but because somebody at the factory thought that setting the milling machine to give a rippled effect on the main joint face would look pretty! You could feel the bumps as well as see them. At least yours took 55 years to get into that state.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on January 08, 2016, 04:17:34 am
Those heads are looking sharp!  I had to surface my heads on a table sander myself.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 08, 2016, 04:35:07 am
Just a glass plate and sandpaper and off we go ;D

Adrian, looks as if the tool was over it's time...
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on January 08, 2016, 05:46:34 pm
I don't know quite how the factory managed it, but it cleaned up OK using exactly the same method as yours. The fact that the new head was really very cheap from the UK importers (for a new item) meant that I wasn't too worried about a little extra work.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ace.cafe on January 08, 2016, 09:29:16 pm
Intake seat width should be no wider than. 060".
Exhaust no wider than .100".
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 08, 2016, 11:18:53 pm
The seats will be done this weekend. Guides came in new today, so I can grind the seats and lap the valves.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 22, 2016, 11:13:28 am
For all those, waiting for the update:

I'll still take some days. The valve seats are beyond re-grinding and need to be replaced. One shop quoted 160€ per head, plus shipping and material. The local shop anyhow was somewhere around 40€ per seat, plus material, and is only 15 minutes away. but it's gonna take some time, as usual.

Also, the paintjob has to be redone, as it seems to have gotten too much of the cold, and the paint didn't bond with the primer - bad luck. So I'll be taking all the parts back this weekend.

Yet another round to be taken :P
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 30, 2016, 09:46:53 am
Valve seats can still be ground, according to the shop and should be done by next week.
I still have to meet with my painter to dicuss the problems regarding the paint job.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on January 30, 2016, 01:26:49 pm
Post some close up pics of where the paint is failing and I may be able to determine how or why the paint failed.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 31, 2016, 11:36:02 am
I gave back the parts yesterday. It is very probable that the temperature went down too much too early and the paint didn't have enough time. He painted it in the evening when it was quite cold that week (~10°C below zero at night) and the heating is not running the whole night.

He's doing it over and hopefuly it will work out.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on January 31, 2016, 01:21:53 pm
If the paint was bubbling away from the surface, then it was likely a temperature issue.  Unless the entire surface was contaminated with some kind of oil, which is not very likely.  Bummer it didn't come out the first go round.  Glad to hear the painter is going to make it right tho.  :)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 20, 2016, 10:38:00 am
Yesterday I managed to work on the front wheel hub on the lathe - sanding down all these dings and marks and scratches and corrosion gathered over the years. Still some bigger dents are visible, but there's nothing you can do about it. As it is, i got some two hands of aluminum dust off it.

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_131.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_132.jpg)


Also I trued the brake's steel rim:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_133.jpg)

Unfortunately my "flexible shaft" (what's that called in English?! A tool used as a flexible transmission from a drill, or motor to a hand held tool) broke during sanding some of the parts to be polished - so no progress here either for now.
Hopefully I can pick up the painted parts today. We'll see.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Ice on February 20, 2016, 04:03:14 pm
"flexible shaft" (what's that called in English?!

 You got it right.
Flexible shaft. Also sometimes called "flex shaft".

 Nice work by the way.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 22, 2016, 05:45:06 pm
Oh, goodie ;D

I managed to repair the darn thing today. Well, maybe, the testing has not been done yet.
I just trimmed it and cut off the damaged part, turned a 10mm connecting shaft for the drill and a housing for the sleeve, that also holds a ball bearing, which now guides the shaft, preventing it from scratching again. I fixed the shaft using a bigger crimping tool. The marks can be seen on the solid shaft end.

Hope it will work!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/werkstatt/welle.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 26, 2016, 06:52:39 pm
Wednesday I could pick up my painted parts. Some parts are still to be done, but at least the bigger ones are ready.

Inspection by the quality manager:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_134.jpg)

And a little mock up (tribute to my unpatience):

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_135.jpg)

So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on February 27, 2016, 01:26:51 am
Quote
And a little mock up (tribute to my unpatience):

I think we all do that when we get impatient with a project. It sort of boosts morale.  ;D 8)

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 27, 2016, 07:45:02 am
So true ;D
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on March 03, 2016, 03:08:37 pm
Polished some parts yesterday and I'm frustrated! The side covers, as well as the hub have gotten cloudy. I don't know why. Also I'm not in the mood to again sand everything, wait for a oxyde layer to build up, drive around 60km, polish, and start over again. I can think of some other way to use my time.

What do you think?! The valve covers came out nice...

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_136.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_137.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_138.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_139.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_140.jpg)

Well, I also riveted the outer rim to the brake plate:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_141.jpg)

Gruß,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on March 03, 2016, 08:19:12 pm
Herrlich!

You could use Belgom Alu as your final polish, it has a waxy component which should delay the onset of re-oxidization.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on March 04, 2016, 05:46:02 pm
I'll just keep them like they are. If it doesn't get any duller, it won't be that bad I guess.

But I need your help: What kind of rims were used on the Chiefs? Ok, 16", 40 spokes, but what width and type? I'm struggeling to find any information on that.
Thanks,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on March 05, 2016, 12:06:07 am
I believe the Chief rims were 4" wide.  Looking good by the way.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on March 10, 2016, 09:59:32 am
I got info on the rims. They're "standard" Harley rims 3-16". Now the question is, where to buy and who to trust :P

I got some rubber band yesterday, that has a note shaped profile:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_142.jpg)


Simply cut it to fit and it made a nice cushion rim for the speedo:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_143.jpg)


A reverse "L" shaped rubber would have done the same, but I think due to the hollow profile it's cushioning function is better for protecting against vibrations.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on March 11, 2016, 12:42:49 am
After the effort you put into repairing the speedo it seems only right...

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on April 02, 2016, 11:12:11 am
Yesterday I began the making of some sprockets. One for the distributor (the original being damaged and spares ridiculously expensive) and one for the final drive, because that isn't available anywhere:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_144.jpg)


The small one's missing the savety pin bore, the bigger one the securing bolt taps and obviously the splined center. I'll try to make a reaming tool for that, or else I'll have it eroded. The distributor sprocket will also need a distance washer, the raw sprocket beeing not long enough, to turn it to original length. Material costs were about 30€, I can live with that.
What makes me worry a bit is the sealing area. Parts that aren't hardened, often wear pritty quick there. Seems I'll have to fire up my hardening stove after all :D
A rear sprocket is here, too, that will be machined as soon as I can determine the offset needed.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: malky on April 02, 2016, 10:25:15 pm
I can't wait to see the finished bike.  8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on April 21, 2016, 03:48:19 pm
Me too!
I wasn't lazy and crafted myself a tool. We'll see, if it works as I planned  :grin:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_147.jpg)

At least it fits the old sprocket:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_148.jpg)

The tool is hardened to 55HRC, the new sprockt C45 steel and not hardened yet. I hope that will do.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Kevin Mahoney on April 21, 2016, 10:02:53 pm
WOW impressive work
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on April 22, 2016, 03:21:27 pm
I didn't like to broach the subject...  ::)

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on April 24, 2016, 10:04:55 am
It worked! But see for yourself:

On the press, with lots of oil applied to the broaching tool (thanks Adrian, that was the word I was looking for ;) )

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_149.jpg)


First signs of progress:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_150.jpg)


A bit more...

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_151.jpg)


Tadaa:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_152.jpg)


It chipped off some material on the exit, but nothing severe. I'll just cut it even on the lathe and next time (?) broach it before turning the recess.

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_153.jpg)


Best part: It fits perfectly on the shaft! No force needed, but doesn't wobble around either :)

Since seats aren't that obtainable as well (I have been searching for a year now), I decided to make one myself. First step: Create a template! I have a seat for  a Meteor, or similar sitting around, that I used to determine the style of the seat pan. Looking at pictures and comparing on the actual Chief frame, the dimensions should be the same, but wit different brackets and a little different rear section (the Meteor seat has a "bow" downwards, following the mudguard, the Chief seat goes upward).

Template on a piece of 1mm sheet metal:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_154.jpg)


Cut out roughly, using the plasma torch function on my TIG welder. Really useful, quick and much easier than a saw or scissors:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_155.jpg)


After some initial attempts of bending and hammering:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_156.jpg)


You can already guess how it's going to look like and I must say, it really wasn't that difficult! You only need to follow the edge and the rest goes by itself.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on April 24, 2016, 10:46:33 pm
Andreas,

this is all wonderful stuff. It's only a matter of time before we see you casting and maching new crankshafts in SG iron - sorry, that's NEXT week!  ;D

Adrian
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 24, 2016, 10:25:13 pm
Who thought there was nothing going on anymore, was wrong! Nothing big though, but a lot of little stuff also means a lot of work. Right now I am preparing parts to be galvanised.

First I clean everything, major dings and scratches are removed, or evened out, brushed and etched in vinegar, to remove rust or zinc and phosphate. After that everything goes into an electrolysis bath, to reduce any left over oxide. Also it neutralises any remaining acid:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_158.jpg)


Next the residue from the bath is brushed off and the parts are cleaned and oiled. I took pictures of the parts, so nothing gets lost:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_159.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_160.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_161.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_162.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_163.jpg)


Off to zinc plating.
I also prepare some parts to be chromed and these need to have a mirror like finish. I started with the horn bezel. It was rusty and had deep marks. Good luck Lucas was very generous and there was a lot of material to work with file and sanding paper. I had to do over the script a little. It can't be noticed with the "Lucas" script, but I messed up a litle with the "L" of the Altette script... I hope it's not that obvious :oops:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_164.jpg)


Still more to come...
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on May 24, 2016, 11:26:09 pm
Beautiful job.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 25, 2016, 10:07:49 pm
Today I made some upper pivot pins. Those aren't availably at HMC, being 3/8-20 BSF with a flat surface milled in the tap. You can actually get these bolts, but too short for the Chief and with a different thread.
That's why I fiddeled with my "Weilers" gears, to get the 20tpi, improvised a 55° angle gauge and ground a fitting HSS tool.
For the bolts I took standard M10x80, milled the hexagon heads to15,2mm and turned the shaft to 9,5mm (3/8").

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_165.jpg)

All to the left the old original bolt:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_166.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_167.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_168.jpg)


With the first bolt a had a little accident, that made it unusable, but I only need two after all :wink:

Now I need to wait until the nuts arrive aloong with the other parts from HMC, to check if the taps do fit. If (or when) they do, the flats will be milled and off we go to zinc plating!

So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 03, 2016, 10:16:55 pm
Hi,
I do have two questions about the tool box on the Chief. I know it is similar to that of some Matchless models, but what I am not sure about is the hole pattern. There will be two mounting holes in the back, where it atteches to the battery carrier and the small bracket that sits on the gearbox. But what about the wiring? Where does it enter the box? And also I am not sure about how the ignition lock is mounted. I saw pictures of it being mounted directly to the box lid, and others, where it uses a seperate bracket that is mounted to the inside of the box.
I can not find any pictures that give me any clue. Does anyone have a clear picture of the back side of the toll box? I do have a matchless box (on which I welded the holes that were already broken out) and don't want to drill the new holes randomly.
Thanks,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 14, 2016, 06:14:18 pm
Another update!

After I polished the rear wheel hub, I did the front hub over once more - then it slipped out of my hands and got crashed on the concrete floor! :angry:
So all from the beginning again. The finish isn't perfect again, very "cloudy". The rear one also has some dots, like water dried on it! It was already to see while sanding, so it wasn't just on the surface.

These s.o.b.s can now kiss my "a", if they don't want it, they don't get it. If not, maybe I'll give it a finish afterwards, who cares?!

Now they go to SSCycle, for new spokes and rims.
Also I got some parts from HMC and could make the pivot pinsand finish some parts for zinc plating.


For the battery strap:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_172.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_173.jpg)

These will be finished in black zinc:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_174.jpg)

The pivot pins, 3/8-BSF (20tpi):

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_175.jpg)


A funny effect appeared while elecrolysis:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_176.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_177.jpg)

How that happened? I don't know! It looks like a rainbow and is easily removed with a brush.

Some parts were prepared for chrome plating. Steering bar, horn bezel, the brass nut and the tool box screw. What a comparision:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_113.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_169.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_170.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_171.jpg)



Cheers,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 02, 2016, 10:23:21 am
So, which news first? The good, or the bad?
Ok, bad news first:

I started working on the fork legs and on the right one there seemed to be a piece broken off. It looked like someone "ficed" it with JB weld. Well, that should be easy - remove the glue, clean, weld and finish. I got the torch, heated the resin 'til it burned and scratched it off - wrong! Below a thin layer there was some really badly failed welds:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_178.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_179.jpg)


It was so badly welded, that the oil was leaking throgh and so it was tried to seal it with JB...

What to do now? Right, get a saw, remove the beads and break the part off...

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_180.jpg)


Excellent! There wasn't even anything cleaned before trying to repair, no wonder there was no result, but more work for me. Off to the lathe:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_181.jpg)


More to come, but for now it's just too depressing. Now for the happy part!
I could pick up my plated parts:  8)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_182.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_183.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_184.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_185.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_186.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_187.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_188.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_189.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_190.jpg)


It was a fair deal, everything for only 95€!
The Chief was moved to the living room and the engine "married" to the frame at least somehow.
I also fixed the tool box and set up the tank, just for the looks:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_192.jpg)


The box was rusty, had broken off latches and ripped out holes. These were welded, new fitting holes drilled and some primer applied, just to prevent rust before final painting:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_193.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_194.jpg)


Last but not least a short view of the dash board. In combination with the tank it has a very nice shape, although it doesn't look right on the pictures:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_195.jpg)

That one's gonna be a bomber!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 09, 2016, 01:36:21 pm
Got two suspicious packages today:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_196.jpg)

Inside was this ;D :

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_197.jpg)


Not very cheap, but they're new! 8)
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: tooseevee on July 09, 2016, 03:14:32 pm
Andreas,

     Just wanted to say this gray morning that I've loved following your rebuild. You're doing a fantastic job.

     It's exactly what I did with the '80 (80") harley I did before I built this last one from scratch. It had been rode hard and put away wet and beat like a borrowed mule for 6 years. Tore it down totally to the last nut, bolt, screw and wire, like yours, just like a Mattell Kit. Then each piece kissed and hugged or replaced with new. Took me two years.

       Good luck and keep going. I know how hard it is and I'm rooting for you.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 10, 2016, 09:29:13 am
Thanks for your nice words! There often are things that keep you back and with this bike there's plenty. It's always good to read that others can relate ;)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: malky on July 14, 2016, 01:38:17 pm
Thanks for your nice words! There often are things that keep you back and with this bike there's plenty. It's always good to read that others can relate ;)

This is like watching a striptease in reverse, and much more interesting. Are you taking it as it goes, or do you have a planned finish date. Just so I can get the champagne on ice. 8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 14, 2016, 03:55:50 pm
Hi Malky,
my experience with fixed dates is this, that they are never achieved ;D

I want to have it running in 2017, but will I? We'll see. But I'd go for a good Scotch, since I don't care about wine and such ::)

I assembled and tuned the horn today, now it honks again. And sooo shiney!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_198.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_199.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: malky on July 14, 2016, 06:10:57 pm
Hi Malky,


I want to have it running in 2017, but will I? We'll see. But I'd go for a good Scotch, since I don't care about wine and such ::)



Name your "poison" ;D
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 14, 2016, 06:25:26 pm
Well, there are many good ones. Highlands, Speyside, Islay... You can't go wrong with Laphroiag, Highland Park, Duncan Taylor do have some nice bottelings, too. I'm open for mostly everything. One of my favorites is a 27yr. Strathclyde grain Whisky, but very rare now - It was limited to 180 bottles only. Fantastic was a 30yr. Glenugie of which I do not even want to know the price :o

I'm open for anything. Let's put it that way ;)
We're geting slightly o.t. here ::)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 20, 2016, 03:20:11 pm
Had the tyres put on yesterday, the look heavy! ;D

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_200.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: bullethead63 on July 21, 2016, 07:07:05 pm
You have set the bar high, mein freund...I can only hope my 1959 Chief restoration turns out HALF as well as yours is going!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 21, 2016, 09:24:50 pm
Thanks!
If you need any information I can provide, feel free to ask. Although I believe your's to be in a more original shape than mine was ;)
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on August 25, 2016, 10:28:51 am
Sandblasted the tank and painted it roughly to prevent rusting. A real progress: I have a seat! After 1,5 years of intensive searching for a seat pan of another model to make it fit on the Chief, which was without success, I really found a genuine Chief seat (should be of No. 44 of 800 ;D) and got it for only 175$! Even shipping and taxes added that is quite cheap. I feel lucky!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_201.jpg)


Upholster is to be done over and also the metal needs some attention. But it fits!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on September 23, 2016, 08:12:55 pm
Bad news, the seat is a case for the bin! Beneath the leather it is rusted beyond repair. I'll just use it as a pattern for a repro...
But I made sprocket cover today. The original one was rusty and brocken so a repair including chrome removal and re-plating would be too much effort, if even possible. I chose stainless steel, so I wouldn't have to have it chrome plated and be free of rust forever :D

Left side the genuine part, right side the repro:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_202.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_203.jpg)

And same one mounted on the bike:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_204.jpg)

Still needs some additional work and buffing up, but I'm satisfied!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on September 25, 2016, 03:00:36 pm
 :o 8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 13, 2016, 07:23:29 pm
This time just a minor update, but not less important.

First a comparison of the oil pump sindles of the Chief (and other pre-1964 twins) and the Interceptor:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_205.jpg)


Easy to see, there are two main differences, being the groove left to the rear bearing and a 90° offset of the pump spindle crank pins.
Latter probably, to distribute the load and achieve smoother running. This can't be altered afterwards. The former can! The groove has a coresponding thread in the timing cover to take a bolt with a pivot, securing the spindle's axial position. Without that measure, the spindle can move forward and catch the pump cover, causing the crank pin to break - as happened to my Chief. Marks on other covers are proof, that this is very likely to happen and the touching up by RE shows, this must have been anything but unusual.

But the spindle is hardened and extremely tough, which makes turning  impossible, even with ceramic tools. I wasn't able to machine the groove that way. What now? It is possible to work quite accurate with angle grinder and a 1mm cutting disk and so I ground it with just some 1/10mm accuracy (letting the spindle turn on the lathe and wielding the grinder by hand):

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_207.jpg)


The matching bore was easier to make. That's how it looks like completed:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_206.jpg)


The spindle has an axial movement of only a few 1/10mm now - enough to allow for easy movement, but too few, to collide with the cover. Now I can be at ease, because the trouble such a damage causes I do not want to imagine and the spindles themselves aren't cheap at all.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on October 13, 2016, 08:24:53 pm
A nice bit of improvisation!

Was this a particular problem with the twins, or would this modification have benefitted the Bullet too?

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 13, 2016, 09:25:11 pm
I don't know if the Bullets suffer from this, too, since their spindle is different. I would have to remove the front cover to find out (by simply pulling on the spindle and see, if the travel is enough to make contact with the cover). If so, I would recomend it. Mine is running fine though, just like many others, so I guess there is not that much danger.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on November 26, 2016, 11:02:40 am
Just a little update.

The Chief's fork shrouds are basicly two pipes, that are conical at the top ends and hide the stanchions. These shrouds -like almost all of the Chief's tinware- are not to be found, and if, they are expensive and in a bad shape. There are similar shrouds used on the "Woodsman", "Trailblazer" and especially "Interceptor"-models, that even are reproduced. But those have little ears for the Headlight mounting welded to them, not needed with the Chief, thanks to it's central mount headlight. But at least you have a template with them and so I decided to reproduce these shrouds.

The biggest problem was to find a fitting pipe. There was none to be found with 1mm thickness in the right dimensions, so I had to use 1.5mm. Theres enough clearence to the shrouds, so the half mm doesn't matter, it makes working a little harder though.

That brings us to problem No.2, how to get the pipe conical? You could cut, bend and weld it. But then it would become asymmetrical, would have seams that'd need to be cleaned etc. and I don't like that. So I decided to try "metal spinning". That is achieved by pressing a spinning piece of metal, or pipe with a rod, or roller on a core and thus forming it into shape.

I made such a tool and this is the result before:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_208.jpg)


and after:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_209.jpg)


You can not easily see, but the shroud is now roughly one cm narrower on the right, than in the middle and ready for further treatment. The second shroud is giving me a little hard time flapping, although I used the same pipe and worked on it the same way. But I'll work on it.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on November 26, 2016, 11:44:40 pm
Taking "roll your own" to new extremes...  ;D
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on November 28, 2016, 08:12:55 pm
Some minor progress. The shrouds need two "ears" and a recess to fit them over the lower tripple tree and fix them. Therefor I drilled 1,5mm at the corners and cut using a "Puk-saw":

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_218.jpg)


I could have made a straight cut for the division. But I feared to damage the shrouds, so I took a different approach: An X-shaped cut:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_219.jpg)


The now formed triangles are loose in the middle and only held a little on the outside. They can easily be bent and broken out:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_220.jpg)


Just bend the "ears" outwards:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_221.jpg)


Of course they will be trimmed and finished. For now they do fit!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 01, 2016, 10:03:28 pm
In her new home and finally on her own "feet" again - well, almost:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_222.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 08, 2016, 10:30:53 am
The shrouds are almost done and I tried them on:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_223.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_224.jpg)


Looks good, but what makes me worry is this gap:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_225.jpg)


Maybe the length isn't right (should be, according to the "template")?!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_226.jpg)


Can anyone check with the length of theirs? I assume Interceptors, Trailblazers etc. should have the same and there are some Chiefs out there, too... :'(
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on December 08, 2016, 03:46:34 pm
The Interceptor-style front end on my project has a bit of gap there, though rather less than that with the steering head races adjusted. Elongating the mounting holes in your new shrouds for the bottom yoke pinch bolts will give you some vertical adjustment (which will be enough in my case), as will a thick rubber washer under the chrome cap. You don't really want to have to weld a collar onto the top or have to make another set.

Conversely when I fitted Hitchcock 50's headlamp brackets and cafe racer top yoke to my Electra in 2006 the shrouded portion above the "ears" was too long and needed shortening by about the same amount that yours need lengthening!  ??? ??? ???

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 08, 2016, 07:05:56 pm
Well, that's kinda strange, isn't it? If nothing else helps, I will go for a ticker Rubber washer. I already thought maybe the bearings aren't deep enough. Only thing that might ensure either therory, is measurements from another Chief. ::)

Today I found a lot of interesting ads for the Chief in some vintage "American Motorcyling" magazines, that I instandly bought 8)

So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Damon on December 09, 2016, 12:53:10 am
Here is a picture of my Interceptor, it isn't a close up but you can see the distance on it.
(http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu286/fvtenfanatic/image1_zpssc8hdsqc.jpg) (http://s656.photobucket.com/user/fvtenfanatic/media/image1_zpssc8hdsqc.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on December 09, 2016, 11:23:38 pm
Quote
Well, that's kinda strange, isn't it? If nothing else helps, I will go for a ticker Rubber washer.

Otherwise add a pair of big fat 35mm inside diameter O-rings to take up the gap. I'm not sure about Redditch fork shrouds, but the short ones used on Indian Bullets definitely have vertically slotted pinch-bolt holes to give some adjustment. I think you made the tabs just wide enough to do the same with yours.

Quote
I already thought maybe the bearings aren't deep enough.

It's possible that one of the bearing races isn't seated properly, either on the yokes or in the headstock casting, but given the level of care and attention you have shown so far, I think this is unlikely.  ;D

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on December 10, 2016, 03:27:29 pm
On my Chief the total length of that piece in the picture is 14 1/2". From the  top to the cut out is 5 1/2"
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 10, 2016, 05:35:25 pm
Hi Erc,
that seems right. As you can see, the distance from the cutout to the cover chrome rings is ~135mm, with some of the tubes sticking inside the rings. This part added it could be about 140mm, which is about 5-1/2"
Or did you mean the piece from the cutout to the chrome ring, not counting the part that reaches inside?
Thanks,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on December 11, 2016, 08:58:25 pm
From the cutout to the chrome ring. And from the chrome ring to the bottom is 14 1/2".  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 11, 2016, 09:06:30 pm
I checked the bearings and noticed that on my Interceptor, the lower bearing sits deeper inside the frame. So that really seems to be the problem here, as suspected. Now the question is, why it didn't go any further. Maybe I didn't use enough force?! :-[

I'll remove the frontend and try to press it in the missing 5mm.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on December 12, 2016, 06:38:19 pm
The fact that they are still a tight fit is good news. If there's no stray paint blocking the bearing seat you could try freezing the bearing and using a hot air gun to warm up and expand the headstock as much as you dare without damaging the paint job. I know this works better for bearings pressed into alloy rather than steel or malleable iron but it might still help.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 16, 2016, 08:46:18 am
I'll try using a large M20 threaded rod to pull in the bearings.

There's another problem:
I got a dummy battery box, shaped like the original Lucas GU11E battery. Only problem is, it doesn't fit! The Battery tray seems to be maybe 1/4" too short for the box, or same too long. Lucas catalogue quotes 7-5/8" in length.

HMC seem to have fitted a Lucas battery on their Chief and as it seems, their battery tray isn't wider than mine?!

ERC, maybe you caould take measurements of the tray?
Thanks,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 29, 2016, 01:02:47 pm
There's some updates!
What happened? A lot of small stuff mostly, two steps forward, one back.

I started the third attempt to built a seat, with an altered template. Success was minor. First I didn't cut the sheet metal big enough, then it wrinkeled in places not desired to and last but not least, it ripped!
But I coun't it a success never the less, beacuse my main concerns, the rear edges, came out quite nicely! The rest is going to work, too, and I know how ;)
All in all the shape looks good so far!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_227.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_228.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_229.jpg)


Then I started work on the fork tubes, what I was staving off for some time now. Because of dirt and corrosion, I glass blasted them first:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_230.jpg)


As you can see, the casting is very porous and many dings, unfortunatelly on the outside, could be found:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_231.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_232.jpg)


I put them on the lathe for a rough treatment and to give them back the round shape:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_233.jpg)


After that I treated them with "Steindl" stars, 120-240-400-600-800 grain:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_234.jpg)


Came out nicely and even the deep marks vanished:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_235.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_236.jpg)

The first tube lying on the stove, to keep it warm over night, ready to be polished (giving it a little time to oxidize befor polishing and keeping it warm, will give a better finish) :)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_237.jpg)


Finish looks good, the second one is the same:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_238.jpg)


As I managed to not set the steering head bearings deep enough into the frame, what gave me headache with the length of the fork shrouds, I made it right. Better said, removed the fork again and fabricated a tool for propper installation of the bearings:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_239.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_240.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_241.jpg)

The two big washers have a ring for alligning in perfect position inside the bearing, the outside diameter is a little smaller. With an M20 threaded rod, I was able to pull the bearings to stop and got rid of the gap between shrouds and tripple tree.

Next problem, the battery. Old genuine ons are not to be found, but a plastik dummy. Empty, but expensive and of lousy quality :'(
But now for the best part: It doesn't fit!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_242.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_243.jpg)

I can't say if the dummy is made too big, because I have nothing to compare, but the tray is genuine and according to the spares catalogue that's the exact battery, used on the Chief. So, if anyone has a battery for an Ariel Square Four, Lucas GU11E, please contact me!  :P

I guesss I'll shorten the dummy case  on the outside and put it back together, to get that missing cm of space.

Allso the Brits made a bull! The oil drain bolt on the gearbox doesn't go past the frame! :angry:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_244.jpg)


What's that supposed to be?! Pull out the gearbox with the motor, just for an oil change?! Total nonsense! I guess I'll switch to an Allen bolt for that (or does anyone know the answer to that riddle?).
Stay tuned!
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on December 30, 2016, 02:56:50 am
Try Paul Goff in the UK for dummy battery cases.

Apart from the standard (rubber) replica casing he sells a smaller one base on the early BSA Bantam battery (92 x 92 x 140mm), but finding a 12V battery with adequate capacity AND small enough to fit inside might not be easy!

Scroll down towards the bottom of the page to find them:

http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffybatteries.htm

There is a lot of useful electrical stuff on his web site.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 01, 2017, 11:27:44 am
Hi Adrian,
the problem is, there's no such battery cases available elsewhere. The standard Lucas ones you can get are too small, since the Chief had a 20Ah battery fitted. I'll just cut the dummy and shorten it some mm, that should give me enough clearence while preserving the looks.

Anyone got infos about original wiring (not the diagram but the actual layout), also other models, like Super Meteor etc., as well as the drain plug of the gearbox?
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on January 01, 2017, 01:02:37 pm
Given your level of skill I'm surprised you haven't made your own mould and cast a new rubber case!  ;D

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 01, 2017, 01:48:07 pm
Get ready to laugh: I planned to! But I wouldn't get enough info about the exact measurements and looks of the battery and since I thought I found what I was looking for... Well, at least I am not starting from zero now ;D
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on January 02, 2017, 07:00:20 pm
You should be able to shorten the over-size plastic replica, clean it up enough for use as a pattern and take the mould off that, assuming the inside is still big enough for a 12V battery once you have done so.

Or just make a nice little wooden case and fit a capacitor inside...  ;D

Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 13, 2017, 04:33:55 pm
At least the gear box drain plug problem was taken care of:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_245.jpg)


A lathe is worth a lot. Made this from a piece of aluminium I had lying around. It's a 9/16x12 BSW and instead of the original hex head that was in the way, I gave it  an Allen head for more clearence towards the frame, using an old "Ikea" hex key (that was good for nothing much else).
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 15, 2017, 04:12:35 pm
Yet some more things done.

I cleaned an assembled the forks and mounted the front wheel, to get a first impression. Looks good!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_246.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_247.jpg)


Also, I cut out two stripes of 5mm from the battery dummy. Now it fits and need to be glued together again:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_248.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_249.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 22, 2017, 03:39:36 pm
Today just some minor stuff. Cleaned the shop, tried out my new knurling caliper and of course made good use of it:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_250.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_251.jpg)

I think this result is amazing! With the "normal" apparatures, that only push from the side, I did not often achieve such, and they put a lot of force on the lathe. The caliper doesn't.

The shaft is for reseting the odometer, that is only short on the speedo and therefor not to be reached from outside the dashboard. As connection I just used some rubber hose pushed over the ends of both ;)
Gruß,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 27, 2017, 09:04:29 am
And some more!
Because the sprocket locknut has a very unusual and big size it can't be worked on with standard tools. So I machined a fitting adaptor to be used with a standard 32mm socket. So it's 42.3mm hex key in the front and 32mm at the back:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_252.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_253.jpg)


The big advantage to those made from tube: It can be used with a 1/2" torque wrench without any problem:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_254.jpg)


Also made a tool for fixing the sprockt, using a piece of chain and some metal band. A thick piece of paper is used to protect against scratches. Torque is 70Nm:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_255.jpg)


At last the nut is secured by using a special washer:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_256.jpg)


So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on January 27, 2017, 02:14:59 pm
That makes me glad that the 5 speed gearbox has a flat sprocket, though the 50mm ring spanner cost a lot!

The nut hexagon size on yours corresponds with 1" Whitworth, you might find this helpful for finding odd Whitworth spanners and sockets.

http://www.baconsdozen.co.uk/tools/whitworth.htm

However, you do not seem to need much help!  ;D

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 11, 2017, 10:04:20 am
Well Adrian, I could definitely need some halp on the wiring question! It seems nobody ever went through the troubles of documenting an old wiring harness and it's positioning on the frame...

Now the news:

I have exhaust pipes,  but the left one won't fit:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_257.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_258.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_259.jpg)


I have a clutch cable, but it doesn't fit:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_260.jpg)


It's too short as well. I contacted HMC on this and we'll see, what to do. It's always such a fun.
And as said, after hours and days of research still nothing on the wiring. I'll try some braiding techniques though.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 11, 2017, 07:08:45 pm
I engaged myself in braiding of wiring harnesses and started a small experiment. For simplicity just with ~10cm auf yarn, a pencil to simulate the wires and a slotted toilet paper tube as a "loom".

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_261.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_262.jpg)


The result:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_263.jpg)

There wasn't any more possible with just that bit of yarn. It works quite good, very even and with some exercise not too difficult to do. But the time needed is a bummer! Just ~3cm in a good 30min. won't do it. With an average wiring harness of about 2m and double braid you can count a good 270 hours. Well, no, I have to improve that! Working on it.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on February 11, 2017, 07:20:52 pm
I'm sorry I couldn't help over the wiring. Your best plan in the absence of an original schematic would be to find another alternator-fitted British twin from the same year with similar switchgear (there are plenty of wiring diagrams on the internet).

I don't know to what extent you might want to modernize the electrical system - if at all. If you want an original as possible 6V system that might take longer, but running 12V instead will permit a simplified wiring scheme. A modern 12V regulator/rectifier can be tucked away out of sight (but still in the air flow for cooling).

For putting together your own wiring loom all the different Lucas coloured wires are available (in the UK at least), or you can buy multicore cable with as many different coloured wires as you need. 10 is probably enough, if you are not fitting indicators, 7 core trailer flex will do, at least as the backbone of your wiring harness. You can still cloth braid it until an original turns up (I wouldn't put it past you to come up with some clever tool to speed up the process). The layout is more or less determined by the positioning of the components, with enough slack left at the front to allow the forks to turn freely in both directions.

Or it could just be psychedelic spaghetti monster time!

(http://pimg.imagesia.com/fichiers/1d2/dscn7374_imagesia-com_1d2fr_small.jpg) (http://en.imagesia.com/dscn7374_1d2fr)

It does look a bit tidier now, fortunately...

Try here for multicore, otherwise I'm sure you can buy some locally.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-CORE-AUTO-CABLE-1-0mm-16-5-AMP-CAR-WIRE-3-METRES-MULTICORE-AUTOMOTIVE-3M-/251125011570?hash=item3a78379472:m:mv72-OMYcFDw-e3hTOr4Tmw

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/13-CORE-AUTO-CABLE-3M-1-5mm-21-AMP-CAR-BOAT-LOOM-WIRE-3-METRE-THINWALL-1-5MM-3M-/261266757164?hash=item3cd4b6562c:g:Ho8AAMXQ2dBSD4AM

As for the exhaust pipe, it looks like it's not far off. The pipe I bought for my Not a Fury was a poor fit (sold to me as such), sorted by gently bending the relevant bracket to line up with the mounting stud until it **did** fit! You could also open out the hole in the pipe bracket just enough for it to slide onto to through-stud properly, and make sure it's covered by a heavy-gauge repair washer, but something tells me you wouldn't do that.  :-X  Hopefully the pipe will then line up properly with the rest of the bike, though if you have to fit a spacers between the bracket and the frame you will have to fit a longer than standard 3/8" CEI/BSC through stud, you can get these in stainless steel here:

http://motalia.com/index.html
 
If that were my clutch cable I would simply trim the outer cable back to expose enough inner to reach the actuating arm, assuming the cable as a whole is long enough (I wouldn't trust myself to re-solder the nipple). If you had to destroy the ferrule on the outer cable to do so, a carefully slotted new ferrule could be placed on the shortened outer cable end.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 11, 2017, 09:37:48 pm
Hi Adrian,
thanks for your reply. My problem really isn't the wiring itself, since I've done that several times and I do have a schematic for a Meteor Minor, that should do the job. My problem is, how was the genuine harness made? How long were the sections an where were the connectors located? It's those boody details that drive me nuts  :o

I am going for the 6V system, since that's what the original layout and alternator was made for. My spotlights are 6V also. It's not intended to be an everyday tourer, so I think I'm going to be ok with that, allthough I switched to 12V on my other bikes for obvious reasons.

I think I should be able to get all the correct colours where I bought all my cables until so far and I have a source for the connectors (the right ones!).

Sorry to say, but the pipe's way off. I can't even get the footrest in its position. The angle doesn't fit so I have to twist the pipe to get it in the port, but it won't align then. The natural position of the bracket would be on the other side of the frame tube and that is too much to bend, without the danger of chipping the chrome or crease the tube.

Simply shortening the outside cable won't help either, since the whole cable is too short (about 10cm). I'don't know why really, but Allan will see if he has a longer one that will fit. If necessary, I can fabricate one myself, but since I bought it as it is, I'll see if I can get a fitting one instead ;)

Have a nice weekend!
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on February 12, 2017, 03:11:31 am
The clutch cable is a nuisance but is easily replaceable. The exhaust pipe, however looks like being harder to sort out. If it was just a problem with the bracket I would cut all but the last 30mm off, drill a hole and make a new right-angle bracket to fit, but if the angle of the pipe bend itself is so far wrong that even a little brute force and ignorance won't get it into line, it had better go back! Do you have anyone who can make a one-off pipe for you? We have people in the UK who can do this, but they need to have the motorcyle in their workshop so that when they bend the pipe, they can make sure it is a custom fit to that particular motorcycle.

I have one possible idea for a wiring loom, or at least the next best thing. A.O Servies offer generic wiring kits for British bikes to suit a variety of configurations, including alternator 6V coil ignition bikes, maybe one of these will do most of the work for you:

http://www.aoservices.co.uk/index.htm#products (http://www.aoservices.co.uk/index.htm#products)

Scroll down and follow the link on the right to download the pdf . They will need to know full details of all the components you're using including the lighting and ignition switches.

My only experience with 50's RE electrics was with a 1957 500 Bullet, and as the 6V system wasn't working I rewired it for 12V. The one peculiarity I can remember was the original selenium rectifier sat under the fuel tank on the end of a long bracket which fitted round the frame top tube. As a matter of interest, what ignition and lighting switches does your Chief have?

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 12, 2017, 10:08:04 am
Hi Adrian,
Allan Hitchcock claimed, that it is known there are slight differences in the pipe bends as well as the port bores. I assume it was a really bad pairing and he offered to help - so I sent him pictures and am waiting for his response.

The electrics on the Chief are pretty standard, that's why the Meteor Minor schematic will work I guess. It has the Lucas light switch in the dash, dip/horn switch on the handlebars, horn by the front engine mount, standard Lucas tail light and brake switch and it has the rectifier below the tank. it features the 18D2 distributor as it was on the Meteor Minor. The only difference is the path the wires take, as it doesn't have the big air/tool box, just the small box on the left.

I am still hoping someone who has done a Chief rebuild still has some pictures, or at least remembers where the wires went and where the connectors were placed. I know it plays a minor role on functionality, but when going for originality it would be a shame to have such "mistakes" in the wiring, even if it works and its unlikely anybody will ever see it...

Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on February 12, 2017, 04:10:28 pm
Quote
I am still hoping someone who has done a Chief rebuild still has some pictures, or at least remembers where the wires went and where the connectors were placed. I know it plays a minor role on functionality, but when going for originality it would be a shame to have such "mistakes" in the wiring, even if it works and its unlikely anybody will ever see it...

I have to admit it, this is why I love building a bitsa/special, I can just get on and go for what works, provided of course I can get everything to fit nice and neatly and the end result doesn't look like the proverbial dog's breakfast with valuable parts ruined.  :o  Anything I put together could always be restored to original by a future owner.

For the same reason I have a lot of respect for the more patient people who are prepared to invest serious time, skill and effort in a painstaking and authentic restoration. I just don't think I could be one of them!  ;D

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 15, 2017, 08:30:37 pm
Sometimes I would like to be more creative, but then I think about it and come to realize, that it takes me much more creativity to build the bike back to stock, than being "creative" ;D
Allthough I do custom stuff sometimes:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/XS-650/XS-650_k_01.JPG)

Yeah, I'm kinda crazy, but what can I do? Today I started planing my "maypole braiding machine" - gears and bearings are already here...
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on February 16, 2017, 10:41:37 pm
Now that's a PROPER café racer, none of the brat-style rusty steel and hunt the missing rear fender stuff. The maroon paint is of course an added bonus.  :)

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 18, 2017, 02:34:59 pm
That's what I was going for and just as you, I hate what is declared today to be a cafe racer. Flat to hit the first stone in the way, tyres to wobble through curves and seats that solve the question of the whereabouts of mommy's ironing board.
I really hope that fad is over soon and cafe racer becomes a classic race-trim stock bike again.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on February 18, 2017, 11:14:37 pm
Quote
I really hope that fad is over soon and cafe racer becomes a classic race-trim stock bike again.

It may take a while, as long as people feel the need to ruin harmless old bikes. Looking through the used Indian Bullets on ebay in the UK was getting to be rather depressing, though the (related) bobber cult was mostly to blame.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 15, 2017, 07:31:11 pm
Just some updates.
The forkcover look great!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_264.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_265.jpg)

Nice detail, the pair for just under 100$  :o

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_266.jpg)


Cushdrive assembled:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_267.jpg)


And the thread on the new kickstand turned:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_268.jpg)

More to come...
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Otto_Ing on May 15, 2017, 09:58:01 pm
Really nice work. That Indian is going to be better than brand new.  8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: heloego on May 23, 2017, 03:33:44 am
Beautiful project!
And looking forward to more updates!  8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 25, 2017, 10:00:41 am
kick stand bent and mounted:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_269.jpg)

Needs to be trimmed properly and polished, and of course tested ;)
Unfortunately the engine plates don't fit and collide with the frame. Replacements are in work and should be done by next week (still need paint).
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on May 25, 2017, 07:07:58 pm
Bike may be a little heavy for that size stand.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 25, 2017, 07:19:55 pm
We'll see. This is 16mm stainless and I had to push really hard on a rig that is supposed to bend solid Steel up to 22mm! Otherwise it's just a nice gimmick ;)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 29, 2017, 09:17:32 pm
Got the wiring harness from Oran. It looks perfectly like the one of the Meteor Minor looking at the diagram, with an exception of only one bullet connector leading to the rear brake pedal switch, but none to the battery?!

Oran, can you take a look, or even better a picture of the brake switch and tail light connectors and how they are positioned?

I've ordered some kilometers of yarn, too, so I can start experimenting with the braider, as soon as the bobbins are finished.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 05, 2017, 12:03:30 pm
Over the last days I could take a good look at the wiring harness provided by Oran. I measured all the wires and sections, documented them and made sketches of the connectors used for reproduction.

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_270.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_271.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_272.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_273.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_274.jpg)


Also I ordered all the wires needed to fabricate a new one. Work on the "knitty kitty" is making progress as well, I have 30km of yarn and wooden bobbins, so soon I hope to start with the first braiding tests.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 12, 2017, 06:21:31 pm
Got all my wiring stuff last week and so I was able to build the basic harness for Oran's bike:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_275.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_276.jpg)


Still needs braiding and the connectors, but it's fitting my Chief nicely, considdering the differences in models.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 17, 2017, 02:03:46 pm
Hi everyone!
I managed to roughly finish my spotlight bar and tried them on. Now comes the big question: Which position?!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_277.jpg)

I already have a favourite but would like to hear your opinion.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Blltrdr on June 17, 2017, 03:44:55 pm
Looks great, nice work. I think I prefer the look on the bottom pics.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on June 17, 2017, 05:28:23 pm
(http://www.re-indian.com/images/60pchief1.jpg)

www.re-indian.com

Looking at that, the position in the third pair of photos seems to be the right one, spotlights mounted lower and forwards.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on June 17, 2017, 07:17:50 pm
The lower - I can't put my finger on exactly why, but the upper simply doesn't look right to me...
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: RE_Chief on June 18, 2017, 07:39:27 am
Hi Andreas,

Here are a few photos from different Chiefs that show a mixture of light placings, I'd go with whichever you prefer.

Regards Charles
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on June 18, 2017, 10:44:50 am
Something doesn't seem quite right about the side spot centers being higher than the headlight's center.  Just my opinion...
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: RE_Chief on June 18, 2017, 11:22:07 am
Hi Andreas,

I don't know if this helps but these are the only wiring references I can find.

Regards Charles
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: RE_Chief on June 19, 2017, 05:28:08 am
Here is a general 6v wiring diagram.

Regards Charles
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 19, 2017, 06:04:04 pm
Hi Charles,
sorry, If I was a little missleading. What I ment was an original harness from one of your Chiefs.
It could have been one came with an original but unusable harness that'd be good for "research" ;)

How to wire the Chief I know, but not exactly, how it was done by Lucas. Although I've gotten much further thanks to Oran.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: RE_Chief on June 20, 2017, 06:17:18 am
Ok I understand, one Chief is nearly rebuilt - a friend is rebuilding it for me not sure what is happening with the loom but I believe it was fine (-ish).

I will give him a call and find out.

Regards Charles
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 20, 2017, 08:33:46 am
That'd be great! ;D
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: RE_Chief on June 22, 2017, 02:47:05 am
Hi Andreas, the Chief being rebuilt did not come with a harness, and my other Chief is in storage and not accessible at the moment, soz.

Cheers Charles
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 22, 2017, 08:35:16 am
Too bad. Do you know, when it will be again? Do you maybe have pictures?
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: RE_Chief on June 23, 2017, 01:41:30 am
I might be able to access it in a couple of weeks, I will try to get photos.

Have you asked Hitchcocks about the Super Meteor harness they sell and if it would fit a Chief?

Regards Charles

MAIN HARNESS COIL IGNITION Code: 1646
Price: £45.00
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 23, 2017, 11:55:16 am
I asked them for nearly everything, from photos to old pieces or basicly all kind of info, but according to them they don't have any!

Also, all the new harnesses they sell are new fashioned with crimped connectors and wrapped, instead of soldered connectors and braided.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 29, 2017, 07:39:52 pm
Gave a shot at seat No. 6. Until now it looks pretty good. This time I will just fold a small part and weld the sides to it.

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_278.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_279.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_280.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_281.jpg)


So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 03, 2017, 04:24:43 pm
Yesterday was the only productiv day of the weekend! I was able to continue work on the seat and also the clutch. First I had to modify the sprocket lock nut, as I have three of them by now, that don't fit :o
So I made one fit and set it in place, the primary of course had to move for that procedure. But now all should be fine around there!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_282.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_283.jpg)

Then I removed the linings from the old friction plates and bolted them together with the steel plates(loosely, so alignment is still possible), to get a locking tool for the clutch. I also gave the basket some new friction linings and bearing cages, as the old ones were done for:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_284.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_285.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_286.jpg)

So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 09, 2017, 10:13:54 am
Mühsam ernährt sich das Eichhörnchen:
("The squirrel works hard to feed", or: Little by little, the bird builds its nest) ;)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_287.jpg)


Some retouching at the creases, finish the brackets (front one is too long, but of course already drilled  >:( ) and then rivet and weld. God willing (or whoever is responsible) I'll be able to sand blast and paint it the next week (I know, I do say that again and again :'( )!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on July 09, 2017, 04:19:44 pm
One day you will suddenly notice that there are no remaining jobs to do...

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 09, 2017, 04:50:34 pm
To quote Buddy Holly:

That'll be the day when I die ;)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Oranator on July 09, 2017, 05:34:06 pm
I had a friend come by and we checked the compression.... and it's GOOD.
The spark in so so but she fired right up with a shot of starting fluid.

When might I expect the wiring harness?

Oran
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 09, 2017, 06:20:56 pm
Congratulations!
I've been looking for a firm to laser cut the connectors and am currently waiting for a reply. Work on the "knitty kitty" is proceeding, but I am still facing some difficulties. It can't take too long anymore though.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 17, 2017, 08:53:09 pm
Alright, the madness continues!
Everything takes a little longer as planned and expacted, but it proceeds.
The seat is ready so to say regarding the metal work and the braces and brackets riveted and welded. Where spotwelds were placed, I used hole welds, because I don't own such utility. It looks and bears just the same. The braces and central bracket in the front are welded, latter as well and the rear brackets only riveted.
As rivets I just used 6mm steel rod. I already did this with success, but with two pieces of steel. Now with one piece only 1mm sheet metal, I had some reservations and because the proximity of the welds also some trouble. It worked out after all.

The rear brackets have to be bent down a little unfortunately. How I will do that, without wrecking everything, I still have to see. Still four holes are missing for the pop rivets, that will later hold the upholstering in the back and front. On the sides it will be held by clamps, that will be clipped on the fold. That isn't as wavey as it looks on the pictures, by the way, because I sanded it a little and there are still some parts with surface rust at the dings emphasizing them.
But now fore some pics :-*

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_288.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_289.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_290.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_291.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_292.jpg)


I already bought the paint and cushioning is coming next!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 21, 2017, 05:09:54 pm
Seat is sandblasted and painted. Tomorrow I hope to be able to make the cushion.

Also, I have the order confirmed for the wiring harness connectors, that'll be done in about two weeks.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on August 01, 2017, 10:53:28 am
Seat sand blasted and painted:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_296.jpg)


Starting on the cushioning with a stencil:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_294.jpg)


And cutting it using an improvised hot wire:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_293.jpg)


The rough result:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_295.jpg)


After it's trimmed and brought into shape using an angle grinder, I put it on the seat and pulled it down using a pice of cloth:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_297.jpg)


Still looks a bit high to me, but further reducing the foam cushion I guess would result in less sitting comfort?!
What do you think? It'll probably go down a little with a tight upholstering instead of the flabby piece of cloth.

Maybe some adjustments, but for now it feels pretty good:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_298.jpg)


So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on August 03, 2017, 07:11:41 pm
She's alive!

First start (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkcUcgHBJuk)


Well, hardly, but she is ;D
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on August 04, 2017, 01:56:06 pm
She's alive!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkcUcgH (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkcUcgH)BJuk


Well, hardly, but she is ;D

Your link is broken, double check it...

Random thoughts:

- You can quit your gym membership now.
- Be careful of setting your knees on fire.
- Awesome!

Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on August 04, 2017, 04:19:16 pm
Checked it!

It now runs good. The problem was the power supply and after changing it to a propper battery, it now fires up first (or second) kick! Some adjustments still to do and obviously a lot of work around the engine, but I already love it more than ever! Such a nice and powerful sound!

-> Second start <- (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUJcJUYPEzQ)


I really didn't notice the flames until I saw the video ;D
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Arizoni on August 04, 2017, 11:38:08 pm
Sounds good.

Are you getting any oil up in the rocker arms?  The one place you showed them, they seemed to be a bit dry.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on August 05, 2017, 07:48:51 am
Yes, there is. I had to clean the downtube after that, because of the oil spitting out. You can also see the left header smoking from time to time. That's when a drop of oil hit it ;)
I guess it'll have to run a little longer and with closed covers for the oil to get everywhere?!
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on August 05, 2017, 11:25:11 am
it now fires up first (or second) kick!

Oh well, back to the gym, then...

Nice work - I'm really enjoying following along on this project!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on August 06, 2017, 12:01:23 am
Good stuff!  8)

How many RPM was the steering damper knob doing?  :P

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on August 06, 2017, 10:32:40 am
I'd guess about 20?! ???
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on September 24, 2017, 09:10:52 pm
Some nice details. Cablestraps old fashioned style 8) :

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_299.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_301.jpg)


With the seat:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_302.jpg)


On top of the foam a liner is placed to conceal minor unevenness:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_303.jpg)


With lots of delay I got my laser cut connectors. So far they seem fine, but need a tin coating.

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_300.jpg)


Also I could pick up some parts from zinc plating. Some parts were for my Kreidler, but the Chief wasn't to get nothing and besides some bolts and small parts, there was the rear sprocket:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_304.jpg)


Nice detail - lock nut the British way:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_305.jpg)


Aluminum spacer for the sprocket:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_306.jpg)


A big thank you goes out to Bernhard of DWS, who made me a sweet upholstering for my seat! It arrived on friday and I was lucky to have a lot of clamps:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_307.jpg)


The steel clamps however to fix it are rubbish. I got them on it, but still am a little distrusting:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_308.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_309.jpg)


The ends still need some adhesive and rivets, but yet I mounted the seat to the bike to see how it looks:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_310.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_311.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_312.jpg)


What can I say? Looks nice, is very comfortable and I am really curious, how it will feel to ride!

The wheels are off right now, because I still wait for new brake liners to arrive!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on September 25, 2017, 11:07:20 am
Very nice job with the seat repair, it looks more authentic than the Hitchcocks' late 1950's replica seat.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on September 25, 2017, 03:54:46 pm
Thanks, that was my goal!
Today I got the brake shoes back:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_313.jpg)


As they were still a little too big and out of line, I put them on the lathe and trimmed them a bit:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_314.jpg)


The sprocket carrier and brake drum are back on the bike and the chain measured - unfortunately it's just in the middle of pitches so I need a cranked one  >:(

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_315.jpg)

So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on September 30, 2017, 10:37:04 pm
Really coming along nicely!  Can't wait to see it all finished up and complete.  You are definitely spending more time building your bike than I did on mine, and it shows.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 03, 2017, 11:31:47 am
Thanks, I too am really looking forward to the first ride. The front mudguard still waits at the previous owner for me to pick it up - but I have to do it with the otherwise finished bike, that's the condition.

Yesterday I ordered the mufflers and some small parts from HMC, and as I decided to use the old exhaust pipes, started working on these.

One hat a massve ding, right in the bottom bend as well as a crack.

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_316.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_317.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_318.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_319.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_320.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_321.jpg)


The other one had a bad kink, right where the footrest is:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_322.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_323.jpg)


I got them out mostly, the remaining dings will have to be taken care of at the plating shop.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 08, 2017, 12:24:10 pm
Yesterdy I was able to pick up the chrome plated parts for the Chief:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_324.jpg)

Turned out gorgeous and 150€ seems quite reasonable!
I adjusted the exhaust pipes an Friday (I got the mufflers from HMC and so that came quite handy) and left them right there. Now I wait for the estimate.
Gruß,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 12, 2017, 03:55:36 pm
Nothing much has happened, but I started on the rear footrest mounts:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_325.jpg)


Still needs deburring and tapping as well as turning the end conic. But first I need a 3/8"-, or 7/16"-BSC tap.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Oranator on October 23, 2017, 03:38:14 pm
Hi Andreas,

How is the "knitty kitty" coming along.

I need a wire harness, could you please send the old one back for my used parts shadow box.

Oran
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 23, 2017, 07:07:28 pm
Hi Oran,
the "knitty kitty" will take a little longer, but I have your harness ready with exception of the connectors. I screwed up with the tin plating. I'll try to get it ready by the week and if not, I'll send it to you like it is and you can use different connectors.
Sorry for the long wait, I'm a little depressed at the moment thinking of all the time and money that went into these damn connectors and now they're all like useless and need some distance from that, to catch some new enthusiasm :-[
But, either way, by the end of the week your harnesses will be on the way back to you!
Best wishes,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 30, 2017, 12:16:56 pm
Now that my foot rest holders are almost ready (deburring and polishing has yet to be done, a 7/16-BSC tap is now part of my inventory and did it's job), I naturally wanted to try on the mufflers. And right here it was where the little gremlins did their work!

Correct spare part number, but the mount does not fit. The outer diametre is too small, the inner one too big. All in all too thin and weak, must be cheaper ::)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_326.jpg)


This resulting in the muffler sitting lose and not adjusting to the right position, but also can not be fastened as much, because I fear that pipe to flatten. The fact of the footrest holders creating a step there I will considder a minor flaw.

What really bums me out is that:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_327.jpg)


The pipe's too long! Hurray, the studs specially bought for that won't do anymore, because they're consequently too short!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_328.jpg)


The fun is endless. Why make replicas and mess about with such a nonsense?! I mean, that really is rubbish. I surely won't considder the option of shortening the pipe on a chromed new item. Sending it back won't bring me any further as well, as there's no adequate replacement and I don't like the fact of the shipping charges blown in the wind (as they're not tooooo cheap).

I'll contact HMC on that, but the solution will probably be turning a longer, matching stud from stainless steel, with a thicker shaft in the area of the muffler mount, to keep the play between accepable borders.

Next: The "quickly detatchable rear hub" on the Chief is more of a bad pun, than a reasonable "feature".

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_329.jpg)


The fat tyre makes mounting the rear wheel impossible, without removal of the Sprocket with cush-drive and rear brake. Even without any air, the space is not enough to squeeze the wheel in there. They could have use a system much less complex than this one. Well...

Today I will pick up the downpipes from chrome plating.
For conclusion here's a little impression:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_330.jpg)


So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on November 04, 2017, 08:43:36 am
The downpipes and right muffler are mounted.
I made a fitting stud from an M12 bolt's shaft, with 7/16-BSC on the ends.

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_331.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_332.jpg)

The second one has yet to be done.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 25, 2017, 07:35:41 am
Well...., after several failed attempts to "spin" them and therefor massive lack of motivation, I jumped my shaddow and did the rear shock shrouds. I'll spare you the attempts, but would like to mention, that I did the second one three times, because the knurls did not do like I wanted them to >:(

At the beginning a length of stainless tubing, cut with a hand saw and "straightend" with the lathe:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_334.jpg)


The disk is part of the remains of a failed spinning attempt, but for this it'll do the job:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_335.jpg)


Both fixed together...

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_336.jpg)


...and welded:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_337.jpg)


Too bad, those beads are to disappear:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_338.jpg)


After the knurling. I reworked the unfinished knurl you see on the left afterwards:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_339.jpg)


Now that's it so far, and all that times two:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_340.jpg)


More to come in two days. Have some peaceful hollidays!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 26, 2017, 09:48:02 pm
And off we go once more!
Made a stencil of the old part first:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_341.jpg)


Transferred it with marker and made first cuts. Fortunately I hadn't turned it out yet and so I was able to clamp it using an M10 bolt as before - just the other way round ;)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_342.jpg)


One careless moment and it was done  :o :

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_343.jpg)


Fortunately I was generous with my markings and so I could still save it, working very one-sided on the "cogs" ::) :

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_344.jpg)


Not quite done yet, but it's coming along:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_345.jpg)


Today there was no time for more, so it's going to take 'til Thursday for more updates.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on December 26, 2017, 09:56:30 pm
(http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/lurker.gif)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 13, 2018, 07:25:46 pm
And on it goes.

The shrouds on the very bottom (there are 4 on each damper!) are made from aluminium and did not only have bad scratches and dings, but also were corroded:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_356.jpg)


I fixed them as good as I could and sanded them, to create a somewhat decent surface:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_357.jpg)


For the upper "chrome plated" shrouds I cut some lengths of stainless tubing and trimmed them on the lathe:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_358.jpg)


Using a hydraulic press, I  wided them up a little and made a collar:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_359.jpg)


I used a big washer as a stencil to cut  two discs from 1mm stainless sheet metal using a plasma torch (that simply was the fastest way):

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_360.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_361.jpg)


Tremmed them on the lathe and welded them to the shrouds:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_362.jpg)


After that I turned down some 1/10mm (the tubes had a 1.5mm wall thickness), turned the "bore" and sanded them. The collars kept most of their 1.5mm as can be seen:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_363.jpg)


Tomorrow it's polishing and "trying on" :)
So long,
Andrea
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on January 13, 2018, 11:37:20 pm
Impressive as always.  I always enjoy reading about and seeing your fab work.  Great work Andreas.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 14, 2018, 10:48:52 am
Thanks, always a pleasure! ;D
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 14, 2018, 06:37:08 pm
This afternoon I made some progress.
First sanding the aluminium shrouds:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_364.jpg)


Then polishing the stainless ones (they somehow look better in real life...):

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_365.jpg)


And then did some work on the primary cover.
That's what it looked like after some cleaning and a little sanding:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_366.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_367.jpg)


And this after a good hour with the sanding star:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_368.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_369.jpg)


I am always amazed, how easy and with how little removal of material even deep scratches just vanish. This was only the first round with a 120 grain, but now, as the surface is clean, the other ones (240-400-600-800) will not take longer than this. And then it needs polish.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 15, 2018, 07:56:00 pm
Yesterday I polished the aluminium shrouds and cleaned up the springs today:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_370.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_371.jpg)


Everything greased up and put together, it looks like this:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_372.jpg)


Now I only need a good idea, how to compress the springs, without damaging the paint. Has anybody some advise wihtout using special equipment? I thought of using a drill press?!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Grant Borden on January 15, 2018, 08:39:07 pm
Many years ago I made a very crude tool for working on the shocks of a /2 BMW, cut a metal plate 4"X4" X3/16" with a hole in the center that would allow the top shock eye to pass through with a 1/4" hole on each side to accept 1/4" all thread, bent a 1/4" all thread in a "U" shape passed it through the bottom eye placing the plate on top of the shock with a piece of plastic between the top of the shock and the plate to protect the paint added washers and nuts to the all thread and tightened them up until the springs were compressed.

Hope this helps.

Grant
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Blltrdr on January 15, 2018, 10:47:22 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEQTYbVQLuw
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Grant Borden on January 16, 2018, 12:21:00 am
That looked EZ and better than my 55 year old solution.

Grant
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 16, 2018, 09:15:33 pm
Oh yeah, nailed it!
At our shop the trainees build drill presses from self made parts as an exercise. Some of them are never completed, or others just left there. One of these I took and modified it to suit my purposes. As the clamp for the drilling machine was missing anyway, that one was just perfect.
I made a ring to hold down the shroud, as well as bolting on a set of bored angles, through which a rod is put, retaining the lower eye:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_373.jpg)


For paint protection I put some cardboard between, but this gets stuck between the retainer rings. I'll have to machine a  fitting plastic ring, or attach some felt, or leather to to the ring?! We'll see!

Compressing the springs anyhow works just great and with a long enough nut, it can be fixed in it's position:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_374.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_375.jpg)


So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on January 17, 2018, 01:02:05 pm
That's awesome!  Like it was meant to be!  Oh, and hey.  I found your 10mm socket in that last pic.   ;) 

Scottie
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 17, 2018, 03:49:59 pm
Haha, yeah, it does! But it's actually a 21mm socket (that's what I meant with "nut" - false friend here, in German the word "Nuss"="nut" would've been right for socket. A nut would have been "Mutter", which is similar to "mother". Funny, if you think about it ;) ).
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 18, 2018, 11:35:54 am
Just glued some leather to the ring for protection and assembled and mounted the shocks:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_376.jpg)


Another step taken 8)
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 20, 2018, 07:28:04 pm
Today I finished sanding the primary cover. Now it can rest for some hours and tomorrow it's up for polishing. But yet again, there are "clouds" showing up on the surface. ::)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_377.jpg)


The castings just aren't the pick of the litter, there are tiny pores everywhere, too. These can't be removed or polished (obviously) and starting from there it will start getting dull again. Be it as it may, I'll just do what can be done and what can't be done just can't be done - that's it. ;)
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 22, 2018, 11:25:34 am
The primary cover is done and waiting for the oxide layer to build up completely, so I can clean it:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_378.jpg)


Here you can clearly see the fine dents in the surface >:(

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_379.jpg)

So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 28, 2018, 06:52:51 pm
Installed the cover and I think it looks nice!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_380.jpg)


Also had the Chief on it's wheels for the first time since the rebuild! Man that thing really is a bit "more" than a Bullet, but still not as heavy as it looks ;)
Forks are very stiff and I gues I'll have to loosen and reallign everything for a smooth response.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on January 28, 2018, 08:42:37 pm
Very nice Andreas!  It is really coming along nicely.  Do you have fenders yet?  And are you painting the tins red?
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 28, 2018, 09:21:31 pm
Well, I have a rear fender, that still needs a lot of work. Maybe I'll even have a new one made - I don't know. There ware very few people who do such metal work at a decent price. The front fender is still at the previous owner and I have to collect it there, and bring the finished bike with me - that was the deal for getting the fender. It's a good 1000km journey, but still the easies way to get one of these :P

And yes, I will have them painted in "polychromatic red burgundy", just like it left the factory on the 14th of November in 1959 8)
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on April 04, 2018, 06:58:20 pm
Not too much happened in the meantime. I got a front fender and both front and rear are going to a guy who will fix them properly. Should be done until May.

Still some minor things have happened. The original Enots fuel tap was leaking, so I made some new seals out of cork, to replace the old dried out shrunk ones.

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_381.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_382.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_383.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_384.jpg)

So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on April 04, 2018, 10:23:34 pm
Somebody once sent me some pictures of a Fury he had restored. Lovely job, then I noticed he fitted a cheap Indian Bullet fuel tap and clear braided plastic fuel line...  ???

No danger of cutting corners with THIS rebuild, I believe!  ;D

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on April 05, 2018, 09:38:21 pm
Well, I seriously try not to ;D
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on April 08, 2018, 12:58:57 pm
Today I made use of the nice weather and made me comfortable on the balcony. Besides my coffee cup some wires, tape, pliers and the plan. The result is a preliminary wiring harness.

Even though there's not much to it, it still took some time. Mainly because I opened and redid it several times, to avoid wires crossing, especially at branches, but also because of the "unregulated" Lucas power supply. Unregulated in quotation marks, as the stabilisation of the voltage is basicly done by the electrical load and different alternator circuitry dependig on it. This of course leads to wires running all across the harness to a switch and back, to accomplish the desired circutry.

However, it is ready so far and waiting to be braided:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_385.jpg)

The leads to the taillight and brake light switch are rather unspectacular, lines with plastic hose connected to the main harnes by bullet connectors.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on April 08, 2018, 11:35:12 pm
I would convert to 12V as a matter of course, but that would not be in the spirit of this restoration, along with any other new-fangled fakery...

6V LED halamp bulbs are available, though.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on April 09, 2018, 05:00:35 pm
Hi Adrian,
in every other case I'd be with you and definitely choose a 12V fully regulated system even with LED bulbs, but you'd have to change the whole setup in this case. I'll see if this works to be satisfiing, otherwise I'll add a regulator and switch to LED, altough I'm not sure if those are road legal around here (as headlight).
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on April 09, 2018, 07:53:59 pm
My Chief is all the old 6v Lucas stuff and it works fine.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on April 10, 2018, 01:08:42 pm
This kind of was my point. Modern upgrades can be a good thing if discretely applied. But as Andreas is going for broke in making this an authentic restoration as possible, I'd have to say that in this case 6V has to be the only way to go!

Now if you have any contacts at an oil refinery somewhere, maybe they could be persuaded who would run off a batch of 1960 specification high-octane gasoline to suit this bike, though I think we'd all be queueing up for some of that...  ;D

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on April 11, 2018, 03:32:11 pm
Yeah, that's why, all or nothing 8)
But I think she'll have to be fine with regular gas, the "fine spirits" are my personal reward and made from braley rather than oil :o

Today I got a package with two of the mudguard/fender ornaments, both nos and in wonderful shape :)
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on April 15, 2018, 10:07:35 am
Made a little progress and replaced the wires on the alternator. The old ones were brittle and the sheathing broken. I used Diolene braid, that was closest to the original. The ends are wrapped to the inside. This gives a clean ending and provides some more strength for the strain relief:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_386.jpg)


At the connector side I pulles the wires through the braiding, that is also wrapped to the inside and fixated with tape to avoid slipping off:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_387.jpg)


Now I'd have to finish with the "Knitty Kitty" so I can braid the harnesss itself ::)
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 14, 2018, 11:19:19 am
Yet another little update.

The wires were secured by a metal strap:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_388.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_389.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_390.jpg)


For the wire connectors I harvested an old Indian (from India) 6V harness. This is at the moment the only source I know to get the old style bullet connectors with affordable effort:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_391.jpg)


The wire was then routed through the housing and secured by a twin conical slotted grommet:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_392.jpg)


When the counter piece is screwed down, the grommets are pressed in the conical seat and both fix and seal the wires/cables:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_393.jpg)


The breather pipe was taken from the Interceptor and, as it had some scratches, got some silver paint. I admit, compared to the rest this seems a little halfhearted, but it's not recognizable (compare the crank case pipe directly above) and most places won't offer matt chrome. As the pipe is copper and the fitting brass, there won't be any rust and the paint only disguises the scraped chrome.

Then I secured the clutch cable using a split pin, and closed the primary case along with a new ruber seal:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_394.jpg)


The drain plug was heavily damaged and worn. Unfortunately these aren't available new. These are brass bolts, 3/8 BSF. I restored it as good as possible and it almost looks like new:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_395.jpg)


And just a somewhat ridiculous, but not unimportant detail, that bothered me for a long time now: The light switch!
This thing is simply set in place with a rubber grommet, at least that's the theory. It just wouldn't go in! I assume the rubber was too thick. I ended up with a pice of seat upholstery leather, wrapped around the switch and it fits!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_396.jpg)


Now I wait for the mudguards to be ready and in the meantime I'll take care of the chain guard and the battery case.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on May 14, 2018, 03:25:06 pm
Quote
For the wire connectors I harvested an old Indian (from India) 6V harness. This is at the moment the only source I know to get the old style bullet connectors with affordable effort:

£11.81 for a pack of 50, or €13.39, +VAT and carriage, choose your wire size.

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/product.php/454/solder-type-bullet/35e33d4bda8c9131741b6e19aa8602f5

Or I could have a rummage my the 'leccy box for some surplus as I have gone over to the 3.9mm Japanese style Bullets, which I much prefer using, regardless of how un-authentic they are. As all my bikes are bitsas it's probably not worth my effort!

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 14, 2018, 06:32:00 pm
Hi Adrian,
there are several solder type bullet connectors available, but all of them (as far as I have seen) are not the same as the original Lucas ones - even the new ones from Lucas :o

I have some left overs from old harnesses and a buddy from the German RE-forum has an open eye when he's at his dealer's, who sometimes converts old Indian Bullets to 12V, or Diesel.

Never the less I still have an open eye for parts of old wiring. On other bikes I used the Japanese bullets, or flat connectors for convenience. But as the time goes I'm taking it for the worse with that authenticity thing ;D
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on May 14, 2018, 09:03:12 pm
Somewhere I think I still have the original 6V rectifier for the 1957 Bullet I used to own, I'd pretty much guarantee it no longer works... Does anyone repair these old things?

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 14, 2018, 09:49:49 pm
These are selene diode rectifiers. The plates that act as cooling fins are part of the diodes, or better said, the diodes are between. That's why the three connector terminals are on these plates. The fourth is the stud that holds them together. I doubt very much that these can be repaired, if damaged or broken. But you could build a modern silicon diode rectifier inside, so it would still have the original old fashioned look to it.

Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on May 15, 2018, 12:00:46 pm
Let me know if you want my old rectifier to try that out...

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 15, 2018, 04:22:10 pm
Why not? Yet another challange to take ;D
So, yes please!

As it happens I started the Chief today and was not very happy with it. I did smoke a little from the right cylinder before, but today it took a step to the worse. It smoked really bad, especially when opening the throttle and there even was oil on the exhaust port! :'(

I really don't know why. All the valves and guides, as well as the pistons and rings are new, cylinders bored and honed to specs. First I thought this was just a matter of running in, but with this picture, I am afraid it might be a valve guide problem. I'll check the spark plug for signs of oil, too. If it doesn't show any, I gues it can only be the exhaust, otherwise it could be inlet, or piston rings...

Maybe you have another solution I am not aware of?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d65Rxbhuzeo&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d65Rxbhuzeo&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: heloego on May 15, 2018, 06:10:27 pm
The exhaust seal was definitely leaking, too.Maybe if you let it warm up and see if the smoke decreases. That would definitely indicate a leaking valve stem seal.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 15, 2018, 07:53:34 pm
Checked the plug and that's how it looks:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_397.jpg)


I don't know if you can see it, but it is oily and with fresh oil. That can only mean its coming from the inlet or by the piston. There's oil in the exhaust naturally that is black, but it doesn't mean it can't come from there, too. I will have to check the inlet and if it's not oily, it will most probably only leave the piston rings.

Can a bad head gasket result in this, without any signs of oil in the sealing area? Who knows, it has to come from somewhere...
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on May 15, 2018, 11:01:58 pm
If we were talking about a Bullet rather than a 700 twin, my first response to that oil smoke would be "that's a classic case of wet-sumping", i.e. oil escaping from the timing chest into the bottom of the crankcase past whatever sealing mechanisms are supposed to stop this from happening. There is enough oil to overwhelm the rings and oil pump temporarily, but the scavenge pump usually catches up after a few minutes.

My AVL hybrid does something very similar on occasion. Bullet Whisperer and I tried all sorts of solutions. Unlike classic wet-sumping however, this will also happen when the scavenge drain plug has been left out overnight with virtually no oil collected underneath, only for the smoke to happen as soon as the drain plug is replaced and the engine re-started, i.e with a peviously empty sump. This usually clears after I have ridden the bike a kilometer or two. From talking to B.W. a bit further the likely cause might be poor oil control rings on the piston, whose rings are you using and what sort did you fit?

I will look out your address for the old rectifier, I think I still have it from the Abfangjäger light switch - any news of this bike?

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 16, 2018, 08:00:50 am
Hi Adrian,
the odd thing is: The left cylinder runs perfectly "dry" and they both share a crank case. It still might be a piston ring though. I bought both pistons and rings from HMC and the cylinders were bored and honed to ~10/100mm. Another thing that was mentioned was a second ring that could be mounted upside down to cause such heavy oil burning. We'll see.

The Interceptor is still on pause. I have plenty to do with the Chief and also have a friend's Bullet here that we converted to 535cc, and did some cosmetic surgery. It has Boyer ignition, big valves and ports as well as a Mikuni carb and Alpha crank shaft. Pulls like a tractor 8)

Yet I am always hunting for treasure, or parts if you will, so I can start with the interceptor as soon as the Chief is done.

Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on May 16, 2018, 04:25:32 pm
Quote
Another thing that was mentioned was a second ring that could be mounted upside down to cause such heavy oil burning. We'll see.

Yes, been there, done that!  :-[

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on May 16, 2018, 04:48:39 pm
They made a few of the later models that didn't have the cam tunnel drain holes drilled, there is a service bulletin on this. Also a broken ring would do this. If you pull it apart and the rings are ok the tunnel drilling could be your problem.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on May 16, 2018, 05:15:28 pm
Here's the bulletin
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on May 16, 2018, 05:16:46 pm
Here's the other
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 17, 2018, 08:55:54 am
Well, that is some interesting piece of information. In Fact my engine case does no have these holes, but two a bit higher near the tappets. On the inlet side it comes close to the upper hole of the ones recommended, on the exhaust it is quite a bit higher, as you can see here:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_046.jpg)


I guess they recommended two holes, one above and one below the shafts, to use the upper ones for air to exchange and increase oil drainage from the lower ones?!
Is there still enough oil for the cylinders and cam shafts, if you drill that low?
Regards,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 17, 2018, 11:07:21 am
As I found that former post quite interesting, I did some research and compared all the 700 and 750 twin crank cases for sale at HMC and it seems that this named modification only relates to very early 700 twins as the Trailblazer, with the Meteor engine. These do sometimes not have any drainage bores, some have a small ones in the bottom and some have both bottom and top. Later cases however, as the Super Meteor, late Trailblazer, Constellation and Chief use the two bigger (~5/16) bores as shown above. This can also still be seen on VAX and early MK1 Interceptors, while later ones and the MK1A do not have them at all!

I think there was a lot of back and forth experimenting done somewhere around the mid-50s and it seems they where ok with that configuration, as they used it for all the bigger twins from around 1958 onwards.
I might check on my Interceptor if it's the same, but keep the Chief as it is for now. If there still is any problem after revision of the top end, the two drainage bores might yet be an option, but would require to remove all the timing gears.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on May 17, 2018, 02:13:50 pm
This may be stupid but were your cylinders drilled with the holes drilled in them on both sides? If they weren't the oil will build up in the cam tunnels.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 17, 2018, 10:24:46 pm
Hi ERC,
interestingly, only the rear of the barrels is bored, not the front (exhaust side). Why, I don't know.

But I found out, what was causing the oil burning. First was an upside down second ring - what a stupid mistake!

Second, and that is far worse I found when I checked the ring gap. A whole 0.6mm for the first and unbelievable 1.1mm for the second ring! That made me curious and I quickly measured the cylinder bore and the piston diametre. Cylinder is ~70.30mm and piston only ~70.00mm! What a shock! I absolutely did not check after I received them from the machine shop, now that really seems naive. :-[

I guess +.020 pistons wouldn't fit? Unfortunately HMC also are currently out of stock and I did not find an exact table of how big the bores would have to be.

What a bummer...

Here's the pictures by the way.

A lot of oil on the piston:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_398.jpg)


And even on the left hand head gasket:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_399.jpg)


Definitely enough oil:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_400.jpg)


Speaks for itself:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_401.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_402.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_403.jpg)


That's it for today:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_404.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_405.jpg)


So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on May 17, 2018, 10:45:37 pm
+ 0.040" pistons any use, Andreas?

http://www.pricepartmotorcycles.co.uk/ourshop/prod_1097717-110085-JP-040.html

Henry Price also has + 0.020" items

http://www.pricepartmotorcycles.co.uk/ourshop/prod_1097715-110085-JP-020.html

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 18, 2018, 08:49:27 am
Hi Adrian,
+.040 would be too big and I'd have to rebore the cylinders even more. With the +.020  a re-honing might be enough and safe some money and cylinder wall ;)

Priceparts do take that "price" seriously, do they? HMC takes half the price, if these aren't forged or anything special :o
I'll call an Enfield dealer near me if he has some stock left.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on May 18, 2018, 04:08:52 pm
That's interesting all the cylinders I have or have used have the cylinders drilled on both sides. The holes help get rid of excess oil in the top end.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 18, 2018, 06:47:00 pm
On mine the holes are just in the back, like on these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ROYAL-ENFIELD-INDIAN-CHIEF-700-RIGHT-CYLINDER/232691329757?hash=item362d7beadd:g:NHsAAOSwRk9aoWDl

or these, too:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/700cc-Royal-Enfield-Cylinders/372295159865?hash=item56ae855039:g:DMwAAOSwHHRa0TMX

and these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Enfield-Cylinders-Indian-Chief-700cc-1958-AI/222663742272?hash=item33d7cb1340:g:TyIAAOSwwbZZuyrl

It seems to depend on the production date. As said before, they really must have tried a lot over the years. Mow the question is, if I should let them like they are, or if a benefit was to be expeted of drilled in the front, too. Or maybe even anything less desireble, like too much oil on the barrel?!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on May 18, 2018, 07:48:38 pm
That's a good question whether to have them both sides. Maybe an email to Hitchcocks would be a good idea before you button it back up again to be on the safe side.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on May 20, 2018, 01:08:40 pm
SWell, the issue gave me no rest and I still had half an hour to go. So I removed the pistons and measured correctly, even if only with my calipers. Both had 70.13mm at the bottom of the skirt, the cylinders about 70.28/70.29, it was a little fiddly. If I asume an error of at least +-2/3 digit, this would be ideal! Which means the pistons really are extremely conical and oval shaped, more than I had expected. First measurement was about 10mm from bottom and about 60° from the pin axis, which resulted in 15/100 difference  :o

I also tried the pistons along with a feeler gauge, and the 0.05 went right in, 0.10was just possible, without the use of force. That seems very reasonable.

That makes me very happy and revives my trust in my machine shop ;)
It also means I only need new rings. The question is, if I should call HMC and demand a fitting set, or look for better ones while I'm at it.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on May 20, 2018, 02:59:26 pm
I think your best bet would be call Hitchcocks and get as much info as possible then make your decision on the info you glean from them. You've got so much time invested in the project now a little more won't matter.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: RE_Chief on May 21, 2018, 10:36:18 pm
Hi Andreas, contact Phil re:the barrels, he will know what is correct for your variation.
Regards Charles
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on May 22, 2018, 02:58:07 am
Granted I've taken a short break from my motor build, but the rings that came on the Omega forged pistons were not very good.  I broke the scraper removing the rings to make my life easier for grinding clearances to fit the forged con rods.  My Harley guru friend said he hasn't seen rings like that since the 70's and recommended I track down some more modern piston rings.  But I haven't gotten that far yet.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 05, 2018, 05:10:41 pm
It's been quiet for some time here, but I was corresponding with my engine-guy and HMC to solve the issue with the piston rings.
Today I could measure with good equipment, a micrometre and a bore gauge. I first measured the piston at the skirt bottom wich gave me the former value of 70,13mm. I set the bore gauge to 0,00 using that micrometre and measured the bores of the cylinders, both lengthwise and across at top, middle and bottom, giving me 0,10/0,09; 0,10/0,09; 0,10/0,08 for the left and 0,10/0,09; 0,09/0,09;
0,09/0,08 for the right one. All in all between 0,08 and 0,10mm more than the piston and a maximum inaccuracy of 0,02mm which seems good to me.

I also did some additional measurements on the piston in the same way at skirt bottom, at the pin and just below the oil scraper ring that gave me 70,13/69,94; 70,10/--; 70,04/69,81;. I do not have the second piston at the moment as it still is at the machine shop, but I think it is save to assume it's pretty much the same, as my measurements at the skirt bottom where before.

Now I have to wait what they say and if  there are any good rings to fit.

Also I am still waiting for my mudguards and was working hard on my bullet which ceased to work and I could not find the reason - showed it was the regulator and that killed my battery as well as both my ignition coils, as I changed that before testing the voltage...

Well, good thing is, there's always something to happen ;D
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on June 06, 2018, 09:12:12 pm
Good news from HMC: They will supply me with a set of Hepolite rings!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 15, 2018, 11:22:42 am
Some Updates here:

The engine is all put together again an rund fine, as far as I can tell. The Rings are a little small still, but acceptable.

The mudguards came back in a very poor condition, not much better than like I gave them away. They are now with another guy, who hopefully will do better work.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on July 22, 2018, 11:02:06 am
All the sheetmetal and tank is at the painter's. I sand blasted them on friday and got them there yesterday. The man who's doing it is kind of a "living legend" around here and goes by the name of Wolfgang Pühler. He is maybe the specialist for candy paints in the German area and closely working together with Ekrem Pala who will be doing the pinstriping of the tank and also is known as the guy to go to for a good lining, as he actually learned that technique at BMW and pinstriped the motorcycle tanks there!

Check out their work:
Wolfgang Pühler (https://www.google.com/search?biw=1787&bih=1203&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=vlVUW8H3JczU6ASLmaFQ&q=wolfgang+p%C3%BChler+candy&oq=wolfgang+p%C3%BChler+candy&gs_l=img.12...0.0.0.8288.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.img..0.0.0....0.tz8IB_luMQs)
Ekrem Pala (http://www.linieren.de/linieren.html)

Bottom line: I don't think I have anything to fear for there, or maybe just a hard time witing for the results ;)
Wolfgang, who is out of business officially, due to his age and bad health (going close to 70 and has survived cancer) ensured me to prime the parts on monday and send me a pattern of the paint to decide and then he'll paint the parts.

That gives me some time to finish work on the electrics and the small stuff, that is still left to do.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on July 22, 2018, 02:53:41 pm
Quote
Wolfgang, who is out of business officially, due to his age and bad health (going close to 70 and has survived cancer) ensured me to prime the parts on monday and send me a pattern of the paint to decide and then he'll paint the parts.

You're fortunate that he can still take the job on, be nice to him!  ;)

Looking forward to seeing the finished project (almost as much as you are).

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on September 01, 2018, 06:29:11 pm
Got some pictures from Wolfgang:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_406.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_407.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_408.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_409.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_410.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_411.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_412.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_413.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_414.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_415.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_416.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_417.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_418.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_419.jpg)


It's getting exciting!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on September 23, 2018, 09:33:49 pm
Well, there's just no help, small things must also be done. And it's the details that count. The Chief's rectifier was made from Selenium discs and after almost 60 years unusable due to corrosion:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_420.jpg)


Simple Silicon brige rectifiers today are more reliable and efficient and also do not need that big cooling fins, also are readily available. They just have one downside to them: They also look completely different! As a visible part that was not acceptable and I first thought about fitting Silicon diodes to the old rectifier, but even dimensions didn't allow that. So: Completely new!

First I had to find suitable diodes what wasn't as easy as one might think. I wanted some that could handle currents of 20A and I succeeded. A 25A are good enough, 40V they will do. Not much, but with a 6V alternator not off the limits.

Then I built the parts from brass and aluminium:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_421.jpg)


That's how the diodes will be placed. Two for each of the AC-terminals, the middle connector that's shown here is the negative pole:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_422.jpg)


The diodes can be soldered to the brass parts, no problem - so I thought! It needed so much heat for soldering, that it destroyed the diodes right away. No good. What to do? Crimp, or clamp it?! Then it hit me: Weld it! Aft some well aimed laser blasts all was bonded without any excessive heat!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_423.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_424.jpg)


Two of these are placed on oposite sides and connect to the negative pole. On top of that go aluminium discs and insulating washers:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_425.jpg)


After that come the AC-terminals that are welded to the diodes and covered with an insulating washer:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_426.jpg)


Then the outer plates forming the positive pole...

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_427.jpg)


...and aluminium discs as well:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_428.jpg)


Now I need the right washers for the ends, as well as the right bolt and nuts in BSF - for the moment M8 will do. After that some paint and nobody would suspect anything different than the original part.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on September 24, 2018, 12:18:59 am
I continue to be gobsmacked ("when American English just won't do...")!  What a bike this will be when it's complete!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on September 24, 2018, 10:29:57 am
 :o :o :o 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on October 08, 2018, 06:06:00 pm
Well, the rectifier is done.
Here it is after glass blasting:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_429.jpg)


With primer:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_430.jpg)


And painted (below the genuine part for comparison):

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_431.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_432.jpg)


Also I got a small paint sample with stripes (only stickers for now), to get an idea of how it will look. just another three weeks...

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_433.jpg)

So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on November 10, 2018, 01:41:38 pm
Here comes another small (big?!) update: The parts are painted! Next week three layers of clear coat will finish the job and the tank will go to Mr. Pala.

First some older pictures, that I seem to have forgotten to post, showing the parts after filling, sanding and base coate:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_435.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_436.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_437.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_438.jpg)


And now (a little small) the really exciting part:

Gold paint, followed by three layers of ruby red candy laquer:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_439.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_440.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_441.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_442.jpg)


The excitement grows! :D
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: heloego on November 11, 2018, 02:48:30 pm
That is turning into a BEEEEAUTIFUL color! I definitely understand your excitement!
Not being much of a painter myself, I ask what is the purpose of the gold paint. Will that be the base for a metallic effect?
Also, what primer did you use?
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on November 11, 2018, 04:32:07 pm
Hi,
first of all: I am not painting this myself! I took all the parts to a man who is known as maybe THE expert for candy paints here in Germany. He is a specialist for Japanese Candy paints of the 60s and 70s, but also BMW with their sunburst and pearl effekt and so on. He's been working for more than 40 years in his profession and is retired, so he does this only for selected customers to fight the boredom, as he claims ;)

But your assumptions are right. Being a candy paint, the metallic effect comes from the base colour, in this case gold. On top come several layers of a translucent laquer to create the actual colour desired, depending on the number and thickness of the layers. As you can see, it's getting darker with every layer added. This gives the paint much more depth and shine, than just  metallic paint, but is harder to do and takes longer.
Most Japanese bikes used a silver base paint and also the blue tones on REs do, so the gold base really is something special.

The primer should be an epoxy type and is also infrared treated to give a better result (better "drying").

The whole paintjob will have taken four months, when it's finished, so waiting is really hard to take :o
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: heloego on November 11, 2018, 04:57:30 pm
The end result looks to be amazing.  ;D
You better post some more pics as the process continues!  8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on November 11, 2018, 05:09:36 pm
Yes please! (I'm all out of popcorn, but you get the idea...)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on November 11, 2018, 08:39:29 pm
Quote
The whole paintjob will have taken four months, when it's finished, so waiting is really hard to take :o

With the huge amount of work that has already gone into this restoration I cannot imagine that you would be prepared to cut any corners now. We are looking forward to seeing a stunning result almost as much as you are.  ;)

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on November 11, 2018, 09:37:23 pm
Thanks, I'll keep you informed ;)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on November 21, 2018, 06:24:32 pm
Saturday's pick up day! 8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on November 22, 2018, 06:21:18 pm
Unfortunately, due to health issues, I can't collect the parts on Saturday. So yet more waiting...

But I have another picture:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_443.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on November 22, 2018, 07:45:48 pm
Sure looks pretty!!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: heloego on November 23, 2018, 12:12:06 am
What can I say?
How about WOW!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 13, 2018, 04:22:33 pm
Ok, right now my own health keeps me from working on the Chief...
But I still owe you some pictures.

First I got some laser cut electrical connectors and made a small tool for bending them:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_444.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_445.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_446.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_447.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_448.jpg)

Cleaned everything up...

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_449.jpg)


...and turned the living room into a meth lab ;D

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_450.jpg)


The result did not keep me waiting, but the surface turned out a little dull. Perhaps the concentration was too high:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_451.jpg)


And for the ones who are not into old school electrics that much:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_452.jpg)


And the very nice, ahnd drawn detail:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_453.jpg)


Hopefully there's someprogress soon .
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: heloego on December 14, 2018, 03:08:42 am
Looks like some amazing progress already!
That tank is gorgeous!!!!!! 8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on December 14, 2018, 05:58:19 pm
Done right, the tank is the crowning glory of a restoration. The looks to be done very right...

Note the different lining-out pattern of the Redditch RE and the Redditch Indian tanks, suggesting that the Indian models weren't intended to have the stick-on knee pads that were fitted to some REs.

(http://tedsshed.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/paintwork/DSC01594.JPG)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_443.jpg)

Quote
And for the ones who are not into old school electrics that much:

Your attention to detail is probably doing our heads in!  ;D

A.

Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 14, 2018, 06:53:20 pm
Absolutely right, the linings are different. And there's also only a few bikes out there with it done right, unfortunately. They mostly screw up at the rear radius, or the upper line leading there, so that was one of my main concerns. But he did a great job reproducing the looks of the pictures I provided.

Oh, and let me annoy you a little bit more, as I continued with my wiring today, will you?! ;D

Stay tuned!
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 15, 2018, 09:52:09 am
And here's a "problem": On My wiring harness there's a single connector on the bn/wt cable to the ammeter and that's what my notes say is right. But obviously I need a connection to the light switch terminal #3. Now there's the question: Are my notes wrong and there should be a double connector, or is there another separate connector with a lead to the light switch?! I couldn't find anything on that. Also some diagrams show a purple wire between ammeter and light switch :o

Just when you think you have it...
Can anyone help please?!
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on December 15, 2018, 01:59:41 pm
One of the diagrams I have has a separate purple wire going from #3 to the rectifier. ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 15, 2018, 02:55:50 pm
Hi ERC,
can you send me a copy? This combination should work too, it just means the lights are not cut out by the ignition switch, if the rest was not altered. Bad thing is, I don't have that wire, or, well, It's bn/p and leading straigt to the ignition switch...
Very strange.
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on December 15, 2018, 05:50:39 pm
(http://)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on December 15, 2018, 05:51:28 pm
(http://)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on December 15, 2018, 05:52:58 pm
You may be able to combine the two to come up with what you need.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 16, 2018, 04:39:35 pm
As I found two additional reasons to make the journey I had a look at my '81 Bullet (it still has 1950s fashion factory-wiring) and yes, there's a double connector there, leading to the light switch. So I'll have to change that. Well, could be worse.

Just another thing: I'm missing the green-white wire from the rectifier to the light switch and I know for sure, this was not there! It is normally used to reduce the generator power if no light is on. Could it be they got rid of that to acommodate for the Chief's bigger battery?
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 17, 2018, 12:07:10 pm
Lucas sais:

Quote
...as fitted to small coil ignition machines and others with low top gear ratios, the stator connections in both 'Off' and 'Parking' are as shown in fig. 5 (b)

So, yes, it's like I thought and both Fire Arrow and Chief don't have that connection due to low generator power in the first and low top gear rpm and higher load in the second case.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 27, 2018, 02:08:55 pm
There's some new pictures. Unfortunately every single thing is turning out to be a big one, because nothing fits as it should. Nevertheless some inpressions to fight the boredom.

First I finished off the wiring harness with the new connectors. In the first pictures there are some mistakes. Three, to be precise. Who can find them?

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_454.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_455.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_456.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_457.jpg)


Also the wires on the dip switch were a) too short and b) in the wrong colours. Both were to be corrected:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_458.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_459.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_460.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_461.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_462.jpg)


And there I hit another obstacle: I need silver insulating tube in the right size. That means more searching and waiting.

And there's one picture with a mock up motorcycle. Don't be shocked, I think it looks funny, too. Luckily in reality it doesn't as much as in the picture:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_463.jpg)


And of course some things did happen that can't be seen, but also take a lot of time.
The tank will follow ;)
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on December 28, 2018, 09:49:56 pm
Set the tank in place. These two pieces of plastic sticking out were needed to get the rubber buffers over the frame. That worked quite well, but now they're stuck there... Will try to remove them with some penetrating oil.

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_464.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: heloego on December 30, 2018, 10:16:32 am
   Man, that's just, well, BEAUTIFUL!  8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: High On Octane on December 30, 2018, 03:13:55 pm
That bike is looking sooooooooo freaking good!   :)  I seriously love all the time and craftsmanship put into all the different little hand built parts.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on December 30, 2018, 11:32:22 pm
So close...

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 10, 2019, 09:21:50 pm
Stupid question: How exactly was the wiring under the rear mudguard routed? Did they use the two stiffening brackets to "clamp" it, oder were there any extra clamps?
Thanks,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 23, 2019, 08:57:19 am
Well, I just saw I haven't written a lot lately! So I'll skipp the speech and let the pictures do most of the talking ;)

Made a bracket for the ignition switch, but screwed up with the measurement somehow, so had to cut about 1/2" and weld it. Luckily it's not noticable :)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_465.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_466.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_467.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_468.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_469.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_470.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 23, 2019, 09:00:45 am
Also I got my hands on some silver couloured piping and finished the dip switch:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_471.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_472.jpg)


After searching and waiting for some round headed BA5 screws I could drill and tap the handlebars to mount the switch:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_473.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_474.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_475.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_476.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 23, 2019, 09:05:05 am
Another detail. At HMC they offered a 20% discount on reduced items, and I found a pair of "nos" General Electric spots:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_477.jpg)


And as one of the "old" ones was cracked anyway...

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_478.jpg)


... and I also had to replace the supply cable, I went for these. Isn't that logo in the middle alone just gorgeous?!

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_479.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_480.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 23, 2019, 09:11:02 am
Of course I didn't stop there.
After the ignition switch bracket was ready and painted, I could mount and connect the switch. I had to make a littlte jumper, as with the twins terminals 6 and 8 are connected, while 6 and 15 are with the singles (standard with RE switches, obviously). This is because of the emergency start function is a little different. The white cable goes at terminal 8 instead of 6, because my connectors are mirrored (my bad...), but wouldn't disturb anyone ;)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_481.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_482.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_483.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 23, 2019, 09:36:25 am
At the headlight they had cheap crimped contactors and a fixed ground wire. Also, the connectors didn't stay in the couplers, which is deadly at the headlight (up to 6A of current)! The colours didn't match too and all in all it was pretty shabby. Same for pilot and tail light, tough this was genuine Lucas (but they don't do it for me either).

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_489.jpg)


Luckily I had an old socket. The main contactors couldn't use as these were pressed on the wires, but the rest was good an so I got me some brass and started turning:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_484.jpg)


The result:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_485.jpg)


I wanted to galvanize the contactors, but the solution wasn't good anymore. After more than a day I quit it and just soldered them. Looks hideous, but at least theres some tin on them ;)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_486.jpg)


After that I heated them and removed all excess tin with a fine brass brush until there was only a thin layer left. The I prepaerd and soldered the correct wires.
Here's a comparison of the tail light contactors:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_487.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_490.jpg)

Same for the headlight:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_488.jpg)


The "new" sockets, ready for assembly. Much better than before:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_491.jpg)


Yesterday I got some new tyres (3rd pair now :o) and hopefully these will finally fit. I went for the Avon Safety Milage II and heck, these look fantastic!
Until then...
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 23, 2019, 09:38:06 am
Oh, right: Can anyone tell me, how the wires were routed under the rear mudguard please?!

Also, how on earth is it possible, to mount the tail light? If the bracket is bolted to the mudguard and the cover screwed on, its impossible to reach die studs of the light. If the bracket and the light is mounted, you can't get the cover on there. If you assemble brackt, light and cover you can't reach the bolts to mount it all to the mudguard. So what am I missing?! ??? :o >:(
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on February 24, 2019, 09:32:49 pm
Do you have any pictures to illustrate the tail light mounting problem, Andreas?

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 24, 2019, 09:49:23 pm
See attached two photos. Both aren't mine, I hope that's ok?!
You can pretty much see how the light and bracket are mounted to the mudguard, but the tricky part is that cover! This is slung below the two ears that are foldes to the front, right under the light's mounting studs.

Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on February 24, 2019, 10:35:46 pm
What sort of screw is used in the top picture on the top of the mounting bracket in your first picture? Will you be using something similar?

I would be tempted, if a pan-head screw is being used, to use a couple of blobs of spot weld to hold the screw in position, THEN fit the
guard and the 564 rear lamp back plate, using a small box spanner for the 2BA nuts, THEN fit the whole assembly into the rear mudguard.

Not being familiar with the Chief rear mudguard I could only hazard a guess about the cable routing, will you be adding a separate earth wire to the stop and tail lamp wires? Assuming adhesive plastic cable clips are a huge no-no for the philosophy of this build, how about metal "P" clips? I'm guessing the wires are run through cable sleeving.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOLID-BRASS-5MM-P-CLIPS-CABLE-WIRING-PIPE-BRAND-NEW-PK-25/250694829849?hash=item3a5e938719:g:~SQAAMXQgb1RQMix

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on February 24, 2019, 10:40:04 pm
Or these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/ item 311795139359

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YtIAAOSwantbj5aV/s-l500.jpg)

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 25, 2019, 04:22:03 pm
Hi Adrian,
mine is mounted just like this in the picture. I also thought about mounting the whole assembly like you suggested, but they would have done that different, wouldn't they?

I routed the wires between the mudguard and it's bridges and it stays pretty much put. I only hope it will do so with the bike in action ;)
After all, I guess the old Brit's didn't care a lot about how they put their wires on their bikes, as long as they were ther?! ;D

The wheels and tyres are at the garage and will be ready to collect tomorrow.
If anyone knows about the above points, please let me know!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on February 27, 2019, 12:31:57 am
They used cable clips #27685 to fasten the wires to the fender.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 27, 2019, 07:39:00 pm
Picked up my wheels yesterday:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_496.jpg)


Well? What a sight, amazing! ;D
These tyres are so damn high they even beat the much wider Continentals and certainly the look the part!

Also I prepared the speedo drive housing for polishing:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_497.jpg)


So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on February 27, 2019, 09:05:01 pm
On the front wheel that higher profile front tyre/tire will look better with the mudguard/fender!

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 28, 2019, 04:09:20 pm
Definitely! At the moment I can't mount it yet, as I have to wait for the speedo drive to be ready, so I can first set the rear wheel in place. otherwise the bike will fall ;)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: tooseevee on February 28, 2019, 09:26:31 pm
On the front wheel that higher profile front tyre/tire will look better with the mudguard/fender!

A.

           I love the look of that front tire and wheel.

            Why is "Quote" missing from Message #298? ??? ???
[/img][/img]
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on March 08, 2019, 03:03:58 pm
Didn't have much time lately, as my dog had it's tail amputated and needed a bit more attention than usual. But at least I managed to polish the speedo drive and mount the mudguard:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_498.jpg)


The tank has to come off again because I don't like the way the wiring and cables are routed at the moment, but it gives a nice picture for now :)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_499.jpg)


The finish line is coming closer!
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on March 08, 2019, 07:54:57 pm
I hope your Interceptor project turns out as well as that one.  8)

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on March 15, 2019, 06:27:57 pm
Adrian, I hope so too! Though this one will still have to proof 8)

Here are some new details.
Washers punched out of a pice of goat leather, to protect the paint:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_500.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_501.jpg)


Made a bracket for the brake light switch spring from stainless steel:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_502.jpg)


Finished and painted the ignition switch plate. It's only fixed by double sided tape, I still need the right pins:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_503.jpg)


And yes, the light is working and the tail light finally mounted. I did it like you suggested, Adrian:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_504.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_505.jpg)


The to-do-list is shrinking ;)
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on March 15, 2019, 10:23:09 pm
Quote
And yes, the light is working and the tail light finally mounted. I did it like you suggested, Adrian:

I'm glad that worked!  ;)

Quote
The to-do-list is shrinking

Then, one fine day, you cross off the last job.  :) - I think you could allow yourself a beer or two?

A.


Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on March 17, 2019, 08:40:10 am
I'm working on it and beer is in the fridge! ;D

Yesterday I made a cover for the kick stand.
First I cut out a pice of stainless sheet metal:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_506.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_507.jpg)


Then I dented it a little with a round headed hammer:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_508.jpg)


Trimmed it one the lathe:

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_509.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_510.jpg)


And after that mounted it. Unfortunately the paint chipped a little while doing this  >:(

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_511.jpg)


The VIN wasn't recognizable anymore as my painter thought the cast in parts number was the VIN and painted over the real one generously  ::)
So I carved it out gain, covered the surroundings and painted it again.

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_512.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_513.jpg)


I still need to polish the borders, besides that I think it's not too noticable :salute:
And now the tank can finally be mounted.
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on March 17, 2019, 09:54:12 pm
Quote
my painter thought the cast in parts number was the VIN

I know of at least one vehicle registration office in the UK that made the same mistake in the early 1960s...

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on March 24, 2019, 11:53:27 am
Friday was the day! With the help of Sven and Fabian the Chief could do the first few laps on asphalt for the first time.

Of course the carb did flood in the beginning and with Fabian unable to identify the "strange" petcock, everything beneath got a gas shower! Naturally it didn't want to start after that and the spark plugs had to be dried and the cylinders vented. But then it started willingly after a few kicks.
The first impression was quite satisfying, it has charging, the gearbox shifts (remarkably) smooth, handling is a bit unfamiliar but even with the longer wheelbase and fat tyres beautifully neutral. At higher revs I noticed a snaring sound, that I believe to come from a loose drive chain. If not, I have to search a bit more... ::)

Next week I have an appointment for vehicle inspection.


(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_514.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_515.jpg)

(http://www.provinzkartoffel.de/picture_library/indian/Indian_Chief_516.jpg)


Additional videos are to follow!
So long,
Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on March 24, 2019, 03:50:35 pm
To see the whole thing gleaming in the winter sunshine must have brightened up your day, now go and dazzle the TUV inspector with it!  ;D

A.

Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on March 25, 2019, 02:32:05 pm
Man, that looks nice!!!   8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: tooseevee on March 25, 2019, 06:02:42 pm
Man, that looks nice!!!   8)

           What mattsz sez + WoW! 8)(http://)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on March 26, 2019, 06:59:19 pm
Oh, you can believe I am happy!
Here's the video by the way ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZTHBw8vmUA&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZTHBw8vmUA&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on March 27, 2019, 10:00:45 am
Sounds as good as it looks.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: heloego on March 28, 2019, 01:20:29 am
Frickin' BEAUTIFUL! Sounds great! Congrats!!!!!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Warwick on April 02, 2019, 10:00:17 am
SOOOOO NICE!!! Congrats. Your work is so worthwhile!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on April 02, 2019, 07:44:18 pm
Beautiful job on that. What an amazing amount of work put into it.  ERC
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Arizoni on April 04, 2019, 01:07:25 am
Damn grumbern.

I think you've created a masterpiece.   :) :)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on November 17, 2019, 09:27:42 am
Hey grumbern!  Can we get an update on this?  Did you ride it over the summer?  Is it now in your living room for the winter, where you can look at it every day?
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on November 17, 2019, 09:30:20 pm
Yes, I rode it for a good 400 miles, after getting rid of some more or less significant issues. First was the front fork that was too soft and spilled oil. It turned out that the bushes were too small an outside diametre so oil could creep behind and trough the threads of the seals. Also the springs were of a somehow softer sort. No clue why and where they belonged to originally.

This was fixed but it showed heavy oiling below the engine. I suspected the primary breather and found out I was right, after fitting a hose to it and running it to the back of the bike, where it spilled quite some oil after a short ride. This was tanken care of by fitting a piece of sheet metal to act as a splash guard for the primary chain and is held by the breather's banjo bolt.

I also showed that the voltage output was too high, due to the absence of the selene rectifier's resistance, so I had to fit a crude, but effective voltage regulator.

But now it feels like it might give a good and problem free start in 2020. Though the streets aren't covered in salt yet, it's not really nice riding weather here and the season is more or less over...

The biggest news might be the fact, that I had a visit from "Motorrad Classic" (https://www.motorradonline.de/motorrad-classic/ (https://www.motorradonline.de/motorrad-classic/)), Germany's most famous classic motorcycle magazine! They made a lot of pictures and are going to publish an article in the upcoming March issue! 8)

By the way, just this week on thursday, the old Chief turned 60! Didn't have a big party though ;)
So, yeah, it seems like I was successful.

Andreas
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: mattsz on November 18, 2019, 12:00:17 am
Thanks for the update!  I really enjoyed following all the work you did, and I'm glad the outcome was good!

And congratulations on the magazine feature!  It's well-deserved...
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on January 20, 2020, 05:50:28 pm
For those of you who have the possibility to get your hands on, and maybe even read some German, there's a big story about my Chief, even making it on the cover in the upcoming February issue of "Motorrad Classic", one of the bigger classic motorcycle magazines of Germany. 8)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 03, 2020, 03:48:28 pm
(https://content.ikiosk.de/pdf/img/9b826508f31b73cdb14bfb9e12e73b2a9a79fd4e4a666034966085a6a03bb49f0f4ed0944f92aa36bd8cdbd4b33fc1ab806134f78b2fd6f1ee8e468821cb444b4b28c48830942597009249dc018829e2.jpg)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Ove on February 03, 2020, 05:13:00 pm
That looks beautiful
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on February 04, 2020, 09:18:54 pm
It was a whole day shooting, with tons of pictures. Absolutely worth it and made 16 pages in the magazine!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: Adrian II on February 05, 2020, 10:47:22 am
If the article makes it onto their web site, we can pick it up there. A very good advert for classic Royal Enfields, whatever the badge on the tank says.

A.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: uhu on February 19, 2020, 03:24:39 pm
Schönes artikel!
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: uhu on March 23, 2020, 03:47:34 pm
Hi Anderas,

you certainly know this article?
C.M. sept. 1994
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on March 23, 2020, 07:07:36 pm
Yes, this was one of my sources for information :)
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: ERC on March 23, 2020, 10:40:20 pm
That is a good looking bike I sold mine to Hitchcocks.
Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: grumbern on November 06, 2020, 04:20:23 pm
I took the chance today and had a little cruise:

Title: Re: Indian Chief build, looking for Information
Post by: heloego on November 06, 2020, 04:36:41 pm
Oh! SWEET!  ;D