[AzCal Retred]

Salt cavern storage of H2 is +100 year old tech, a well travelled path. It provides low-cost Utility grade energy storage capacity. We are already living in the future, the Petro boys just won't like it too much, leveraging 1930's tech against their megamind money machine.

https://vortexenergycorp.com/2023/09/12/vortex-energy-submits-diamond-drilling-application-for-exploration-approval-for-the-
robinsons-river-salt-project/

About RESPEC Consulting Inc.
RESPEC is a global leader in diverse technologies and draws from a wide array of expertise, products, and services to deliver world-class solutions for business, mining, energy, water, natural resources, urban development, infrastructure, and enterprise services. RESPEC’s subsurface experts have evaluated over 1,000 caverns in nearly every major cavern storage region in the world. RESPEC’s over 50-year history underground has helped to pioneer in-house specialty software and rock lab testing that focuses on designing solution-mined and conventionally mined storage caverns. RESPEC also plays a similar role with the ACES Delta in Utah, the world’s largest green hydrogen project under construction.

About Vortex Energy Corp.
Vortex Energy Corp. is an exploration stage company engaged principally in the acquisition, exploration, and development of mineral properties in North America. The company is currently advancing its Robinson River Salt Project comprised of a total of 942 claims covering 23,500 hectares located approximately 35 linear kms south of the town of Stephenville in the Province of Newfoundland & Labrador. The Robinson River Salt Project is prospective for both salt and hydrogen salt cavern storage. The company is actively evaluating technologies to efficiently store hydrogen or energy in salt caverns. Vortex Energy Corp. also holds the Fire Eye Project, which is located in the Wollaston Domain of northern Saskatchewan, Canada.

https://www.airliquide.com/group/press-releases-news/2017-01-03/usa-air-liquide-operates-worlds-largest-hydrogen-storage-facility

[AzCal Retred]

Biggo batteries - great for battery sales, utility level energy storage, not so much...

Fire at Queensland Tesla Battery Storage Site Continues to Burn

https://www.energyportal.eu/news/tesla-lithium-battery-fire-hits-landmark-queensland-energy-project-sparking-political-debate/305476/

A Tesla battery fire at a large-scale battery storage site in Queensland is expected to burn for days, prompting authorities to urge nearby residents to stay indoors to avoid hazardous fumes. Emergency services were called to the site in Bouldercombe, south of Rockhampton, on Tuesday evening. The fire has been contained, but fire crews have been instructed by Tesla to allow the fire to burn out. Residents in the area have been advised to stay indoors to avoid the harmful smoke.
The battery, known as ‘Big Bessie’, is part of a site owned by renewable energy and storage developer Genex. It consists of 40 lithium Megapack 2.0 units supplied by Tesla.
The cause of the fire is currently under investigation, and Genex will be seeking advice from Tesla to determine any potential causes. Authorities have stated that the fire does not appear to be suspicious.

[Racer57]

The Hindenburg disaster will slow if not stop mass production of hydrogen vehicles the same as 3-mile Island has done with nuclear plants. 

[AzCal Retred]

Explain in plain english how a May 6, 1937 Zeppelin event, 86 years ago, has anything to do with 2023 AD salt dome storage of a combustible gas, either H2 or CH4. Hindenburg burned to the ground at the top of a 300 foot tower at night but only 35 of the 97 people on board died. Pretty favorable survival numbers compared with a modern airliner dropping out of the sky at 600 MPH. For extra credit document casualties from chemical industry accidents (start with Bhopal India), airline travel, auto travel, alcohol sales, the pharmaceutical industry, firearm sales and railroad mishaps.

We depend on stored energy to live "modern" lives. What's the real reason for throwing shade on hydrogen as a medium for renewable energy storage? Do you have one? Have any numbers to back up an opinion? I do.

I worked in a nuke plant. They work well when operated by Federal agencies, less so when run by private utilities. TMI melted its core and the containment structure did its job, so the engineering worked. If Exelon hadn't scrimped on routine testing and I&C maintenance it'd still be running today. There isn't a reasonable way to get to a low carbon future without more nukes and renewable energy storage. Hydrogen is the most reasonable storage medium, but Utilities make more money installing pricey batteries.

[GlennF]

Fire at Queensland Tesla Battery Storage Site Continues to Burn

 Authorities have stated that the fire does not appear to be suspicious.

yeah there is a bit of an issue in Australia with the anti-tech types who hate on 5G, renewable energy, vaccines etc etc sometimes go the activist route and blowup cell towers and stuff.

[AzCal Retred]

Luddites over here too. We're waaaay past 1951 at 8,000,000,000 and counting. Far too late to stake out a half a kilometer of river bank and live on fish, small game and a garden. Somehow I don't think a big pickup, a bad attitude and a few boxes of shells are going to assure one of continued existence. About 2 years into it when all the gas has turned to varnish and the last commercial primer is spent you may wish you had learned more atlatl skills and had less arthritis. There's no way a low tech society could maintain these present population numbers, and without cooperation & organization that's where you end up - the stone age.

“Nasty, Brutish, and Short”: Hobbes on Life in the State of Nature
https://1000wordphilosophy.com/2021/07/14/hobbes-on-the-state-of-nature/#:~:text=What%20would%20life%20be%20like,%2C%20brutish%2C%20and%20short.%E2%80%9D

What would life be like without any government? Would it be a utopia, or would it be miserable?
The English philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679) famously leaned in the latter direction. He argued in his book Leviathan[1] that, without government, life would be “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”[2]

1. The State of Nature
Hobbes imagines what life would be like in the “state of nature,” a hypothetical world without governments.

Hobbes thinks all humans are equal when it comes to matters of survival. Nobody is powerful enough to be immune to attack. Even the weakest person can kill the strongest if there’s nobody around to stop them.[3]

In the state of nature, this equal ability to kill each other leads to mistrust. All of your belongings, and your life itself, might be taken at any moment, because there is no greater power to stop anyone from attacking you.

Some people would attack you because they need your resources to survive. Others would attack you because they want to be more powerful than everyone else. Even those who don’t need or want to attack you are a danger, because they can’t trust that you will leave them alone, so to be safe, they must attack you first.[4]

The end result is that the state of nature consists of a war of all against all.[5] You must constantly be ready to fight, even if you’d prefer not to, because the only way to ensure your safety is to go after others before they go after you.[6]

In this state of nature, projects like farming, manufacturing, science, and the arts are a waste of time, because there’s no guarantee you’ll enjoy the fruits of your labor. Someone can take it from you at any moment. Everyone lives in “continual fear and danger of violent death.”[7] It’s awful!

Hobbes says that if you doubt it would be so bad, think about how you act under your existing government. Even with the police just a phone call away, don’t you lock your doors when you sleep at night?

According to Hobbes, if you can’t trust your neighbors to leave you alone even when there are laws against theft and assault, imagine how much worse it would be if people were free to do anything they thought was necessary to survive in the state of nature.[8]

[Richard230]

What would it be without a government?

Perhaps something like San Francisco and Oakland, CA. Yesterday Target announced that they were closing their stores in both cities, as well as the one in the city of Pittsburgh, on October 21, due to organized crime. Also, two other stores in Portland, OR, and one each in Seattle, WA and NYC are closing. Gangs of teenagers and young people are walking into their stores and running out with whatever they can grab, while the security guards just stand around watching them because they don't want to be involved in a fight, or to be sued if one of the criminals get injured. Meanwhile, the cops show up hours later to take a report and almost never arrest anyone. This is the tip of a slowly melting iceberg.

That could be your future without a government. Just like the Mad Max movies. 

[Racer57]

I never said that I personally feel that way. But lots of people do.  Shame your unable to post without the childish drama.

Explain in plain english how a May 6, 1937 Zeppelin event, 86 years ago, has anything to do with 2023 AD salt dome storage of a combustible gas, either H2 or CH4. Hindenburg burned to the ground at the top of a 300 foot tower at night but only 35 of the 97 people on board died. Pretty favorable survival numbers compared with a modern airliner dropping out of the sky at 600 MPH. For extra credit document casualties from chemical industry accidents (start with Bhopal India), airline travel, auto travel, alcohol sales, the pharmaceutical industry, firearm sales and railroad mishaps.

We depend on stored energy to live "modern" lives. What's the real reason for throwing shade on hydrogen as a medium for renewable energy storage? Do you have one? Have any numbers to back up an opinion? I do.

I worked in a nuke plant. They work well when operated by Federal agencies, less so when run by private utilities. TMI melted its core and the containment structure did its job, so the engineering worked. If Exelon hadn't scrimped on routine testing and I&C maintenance it'd still be running today. There isn't a reasonable way to get to a low carbon future without more nukes and renewable energy storage. Hydrogen is the most reasonable storage medium, but Utilities make more money installing pricey batteries.

[AzCal Retred]

It's a greater shame that you won't clearly post without innuendo what you intend to say. This victim-forming disavowment of intent is a pattern. God knows where you learned it from.

[Leofric]

It's a greater shame that you won't clearly post without innuendo what you intend to say. This victim-forming disavowment of intent is a pattern. God knows where you learned it from.

I thought he was just being sarcastic .

[AzCal Retred]

The Hindenburg disaster will slow if not stop mass production of hydrogen vehicles the same as 3-mile Island has done with nuclear plants.
I thought he was just being sarcastic .

I think you might be the only one.

[axman88]

The Hindenburg disaster will slow if not stop mass production of hydrogen vehicles the same as 3-mile Island has done with nuclear plants.
I thought he was just being sarcastic .

I think you might be the only one.

Sarcasm would explain a lot of Racers' posts of a more political nature.  Those made even less sense as statements of either position or fact.

Regarding Luftschiffbau Zeppelin 129, "Hindenburg", it wasn't powered by hydrogen, its engines used diesel fuel.

And, it had been designed to be filled with helium, not hydrogen.  At that time, the USA controlled the only substantial supply of helium, and, since the Hindenburg was being partially funded by the Nazi ministry of Propaganda, and used for various public relations roles like dropping thousands of Nazi flags for school children, the USA declined to supply the German company with the noble gas.  Thus, Luftschiffbau Zeppelin had no choice.  It the craft was to fly, it would have to be filled with hydrogen.

There is also, a very plausible theory that the fire that consumed the aircraft was NOT due to its gas filler, but rather to the flammable skin.  Luftschiffbau Zeppelin had coated the fabric skin with highly flammable  cellulose acetate dope, and covered that with aluminum powder, which has been used for rocket fuel, and is conductive.  The resulting silver finish really made the big red and black swastikas on the tail pop.

When the Hindenburg burned, it did so with reddish flames, but hydrogen burns with an almost invisible blue flame.

https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/02/26/1052864.htm

The only thing the Hindenburg disaster brought on was a temporary hiatus in zeppelin development, but only from 1938 until 1993, when Luftschiffbau Zeppelin was regenerated from its residual assets.  They are back to making Zepplins since 1996, and Goodyear partnered up with them (again) in 2011.

Hydrogen, as a fuel, goes back to the beginnings of internal combustion.  It was used to power Francois Isaac de Rivaz's 4 wheeled vehicle in 1807.
https://www.automostory.com/first-hydrogen-car.htm

[NVDucati]

Let's keep two of the many aspects of hydrogen in mind ; Hydrogen can be burned as a liquid fuel in internal combustion engines AND be used in a chemical reaction H-Cell to make electricity. Caterpillar has said right out loud that heavy equipment will never succeed on battery electric and logistically rule out a "corded" earth-mover.  So liquid it is.
The hydrogen cell is a replacement for Grid charged batteries. Think light transportation, like cars, busses, small trucks, etc.
Now, along comes me and I say that these two application forms of hydrogen will make a super hybrid!
_ Let's also consider, with the USA as a measure, total transportation energy use is only 27% - 34% of the total energy consumed. ( Department of Energy shows two separate calculations )   Stationary Energy use Housing, manufacturing and recreation eat up the rest. Why we all are so fixated on cars puzzles me. And being that the stationary sector, obviously doesn't move, miniaturization is xx% less important! Local generation will be more feasible.
[end rant// apologies//]

[AzCal Retred]

To NVDs point, unless you are using stored H2 directly (gas or cryogenic fluid) or recombined into a synthetic liquid fuel, in a battery EV you are forced to draw this 30% transport energy from the distribution grid. Using a battery for 4 hours and recharging for 1 hour (or less) really means the grid draw can be effectively doubled or tripled intermittently depending on who's charging up. Intermittent loads are hard to schedule and drive up prices across the board. Rebuilding distribution infrastructure to accommodate these huge intermittent loads is a savage moneymaker for electrical utilities. Buy your stock early!

Using H2 directly or as a liquid synfuel means you get to make the fuel outside of normal large grid load times. Off peak wind & solar or even dedicated renewables can be used for fuel production. Even nuclear sourced electricity can be used. You can use fuel production to allow nuke plants to park at "baseload", which is what they really like to do. There's no reason to completely rebuild the grid ($$$) as there is for battery usage. Refuel anytime you want, it doesn't affect normal grid loading.

Utility bean counters don't like local generation because it 1) reduces need for lucrative grid rebuilding, as power source and load are in the same location, and 2) increases total system power and thus reduces wheeled in power quantities which in turn reduce lucrative "wheeling" fees from the exterior power brought in.

[Racer57]

It's a common observance that when someone does not respond to a comment in an intelligent manner and makes immature personal attacks instead, then they have no intelligent response.

[AzCal Retred]

It's a common observance that when someone does not respond to a comment in an intelligent manner and makes immature personal attacks instead, then they have no intelligent response.

Like this guy?

Ive been riding for 60 years and have been to over 35 States pulling a trailer.
You need a lot more time on a bike before taking that trip. You could use a mini bike or full dresser bike on that trip, it makes no difference if you don't have the experience to do it. Put a few thousand miles on it. Do you know to "push right to go right" yet ?

our info is based upon the same out of date into thats been floating around on the internet for years.  Ethanol production has a positive return and that doesn't include the high protein feed. There is only a couple hundred ethanol refineries in the US which means the rest is taken to local elevators and sold by them along with makers of dog food, chemicals, oils, sweetners etc.  There is literally thousands of use for corn. Ethanol is only one of them. So whatever fuel is used for corn thats used for ethanol is only a very small fraction of total use. But if you think there is more gas/diesel used for its production as compared to supertankers and wars for oil fields thats your right.

You think its heavy ?  Hate to see you on a Goldwing or similar size bike.  LOL  These things are like mini-bikes.

Reading this thread is like listening to a bunch of Jr High girls arguing over what hair ties look the best.   If this is the level of maturity that RE owners have............ WOW !

I'm 68 and have been riding for 60 years. Have owned just about every make possible. I can now sleep easily because I've now seen it all. 47hp bikes bragging about passing 70hp bikes.   Now if you want to tell the rest of the story about how much work has been done to your bike, then your bragging don't mean squat unless you went up against a HD with equal work.   LOL

Its a Midget and all harness was properly installed prior to race and checked by crew. Driver didn't notice anything wrong during prior laps. Best as they can figure out it was a perfect storm of events that caused his harness to unbuckle while he was flipping. Btw, your comments about forms of racing and the people involved you have shown to know nothing about are nothing but childish. Btw, for what its worth.... A while back I was looking for recommendations for exhaust.  Of all the suggestions, I chose yours and I'm presently waiting for delivery of the Verex pipes and mufflers.

I have never seen a motorcycle forum quite like this one. Where some members tell you to expect your brand new motorcycle to be a piece of shit that falls apart leaving you stranded several miles away from home. Now I wish that I didn't buy one and am waiting on decent weather to pick it up.

Your bragging about a car that the manufacturer dropped over ten years ago and was only made for 9 years ?   Sounds like a really reliable POS. Are you sure an RE is within your budget or did you have to get a morgage ?

Your right and I was wrong. Knowing that you never say anything positive I overreacted.

Thats your fucking examples of fucking intricate fucking painting ?!?!  Did you fucking open a fucking gallon of fucking paint and fucking throw it or did you fucking pour it fucking out ?   

Where did I say anything about loose bearings ? The bearings are in a cage and I never said or implied otherwise.

Thank you very much for letting everyone here know that your not impressed. I can't wait until you post a picture of the tanks you personally have painted just to prove how much you really do know about the subject.

6. Don't respond to comments you don't agree with by making personal attacks.

Amazing how one troll thats constantly looking for something to bitch about in damn near every thread can turn a perfectly fine forum into a pissing match.

I give respect by how mature the responses are.

I must apologize to you. I allowed myself to drop to the level you use in this forum when I repeated your comment in my remarks. I'm used to mature comments and responses and don't normally allow myself to do that. Considering the overwhelming amount of comments by you in all posts attack everyone instead of just making adult like comments like everyone else in this forum does, I allowed myself to get caught up in it.  Again, I'm sorry.

Thats easy for a woman to say. 

Why do you have to be a total jackass?  Are you a little man that makes himself feel big by consistently nitpicking every damn thing said ?

Republicans "calling" for violence ? If Palin had even come close to talking about real violence the Secret Serice would've arrested her. Unlike Dear Leader shit his pants Dementia Joe which has his DOJ stay clear of his supporters. Like when he allowed protestors in front of SCOTUS homes which is strictly forbidden by law and did nothing to protect Federal Buildings from being burnt to the ground by his Antifa gang.   

Obvious avoidance of the topic by profusion of radical left wingnut talking points.

Btw, its the right of anyone to protest an election. Gore and Hillary both said their elections were stolen from them.
Still waiting for you to say what a great President Kamala would make.

Doubtful that the Democrats don't come up with a way to push Dementia Joe out of the way considering his 54% disapproval rating due to his obvious mental condition and age which is being seen by the world leaders as the US being weak. Problem for the administration is Kamala who has had the lowest rating in the history of VP's. Democrats don't know wtf to do about her if there is issues with Dementia Joe. If he does stay in Office, there's no way to stop her without an impeachment.  Since she's a minority, AOC who tells Dementia Joe what to do (along with Hussien Obama) and her cohorts will scream that she's being discriminated against so she should be the next President because she is a minority.
So the question is.... what will the Democrats do about Kamala ?

Why do you copy/paste what everyone has already read or heard in news media, instead of posting your own opinions?

Would you support Kamala for President ?
I left out all the Jr. High level gibberish that appears to be required here.  I admit I can't compete against anyone at that level. My higher education prevents me from that.

fin

[Kevin Mahoney]

The other moderator and i are getting tired of your childish sniping at each other. Please stop now!

[AzCal Retred]

Using H2 production to "base load" nuclear facilities during times of reduced demand reduces plant wear and maintenance from mechanical load cycling & temperature swings. H2 is a way to capture energy for later use, either as chemical process feedstock or fuel for combustion or fuel cell generation.
Olde Skool Navy style "Evap-Condensers" allow freshwater to be made from seawater without having a lot of contaminated reverse osmosis membranes to deal with. Periodic mechanical cleaning does the job. The process is driven by the plant waste heat stream.

Nuclear hydrogen is promising, says US energy Loan Programs Office director; October 4, 2023
The carbon free electricity from these plants provides a low-cost way to make H2 with electrolysis.
https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/nuclear-hydrogen-lpo/8561016/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=9EoFC&awt_m=j3kmZ.HGD85DlsU
" H2 could then be used for a spectrum of different applications, such as fueling cement or steel production plants or.... for a vehicle refueling infrastructure. "


https://savree.com/en/encyclopedia/fresh-water-generator#:~:text=The%20evaporator%20allows%20hot%20water,condense%20on%20the%20condenser%20plates.

[GlennF]

Storage of any type can be used to offset base load problems in plants (whether Nuclear or Coal) that cannot be easily shutdown and restarted and need to tick over, even when demand is low.

The traditional way to do it was of course pumped hydro. The Snowy Scheme in Australia has been doing that since the 1950's . 

How H2 eventually shapes up in a national grid as large scale storage, versus alternatives like pumped hydro and large scale batteries, remains to be seen.

Clearly though you do not want the H2 storage to be at the same site as the nuclear reactors themselves, that would be ludicrously stupid and politically "disastrous".

[AzCal Retred]

First Element to install world’s largest heavy truck hydrogen station
The company plans to open the first H2 refueling location in the Port of Oakland in California.
First Element Fuel has announced its intentions to open its first hydrogen station for refueling heavy trucks, which will also reportedly be the largest of its kind in the world.

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-station-trucks-first-el/8561067/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=9EoFC&awt_m=hxr2CQ70T85DlsU#google_vignette

Presently, the company’s stations based in California have a daily volume of about 1,500 kilograms of H2 for refueling passenger vehicles.

“People claim to have heavy-duty stations out there,” said Stephens. “I would say those are maybe okay for pilot purposes, but they fall short of what you need in a real commercial setting for trucks. You need a station that can fill a truck in less than 10-minutes and you need a station that can fill 100 or 200 trucks a day – eventually, bigger than that…it doesn’t exist anywhere in the world.”

The new hydrogen station at the Port of Oakland will have a 15,000-kilogram daily capacity. Though the main target of the hydrogen station will be for heavy trucks, it will also be available to serve passenger vehicles and medium-duty vehicles. The new location is expected to open before the end of the year, likely in December.

[AzCal Retred]

Liquid ammonia (NH3) stores in a pressure vessel at 300-400 PSI at normal temperatures, up to about 800 PSI at 220F. Iron & steel work for containers. This is agriculture tech. Lots of H2 & N2 readily available. This would work well for trucks, trains, heavy equipment & ships. Lots of ways to reduce CO2 if that's your intent.

Anhydrous ammonia will not corrode iron or steel, but will react rapidly with copper, brass, zinc and many alloys, especially those containing copper. Only steel or ductile iron should be used for anhydrous ammonia containers, piping and valves. Fittings should be forged steel.

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/ammonia-engine-toyota/8561347/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=9EoFC&awt_m=izTWOlVUW85DlsU&expand_article=1
The ammonia engine is a form of internal combustion engine (ICE) powered primarily by ammonia, a molecule comprised of a nitrogen atom and three hydrogen atoms. It does not contain carbon. As a result, when it’s burned in an ICE, it does not release carbon dioxide, one of the major greenhouse gases. In the effort to decarbonize, the potential of this type of technology is considerable.
While Toyota has been moving forward with a diverse approach that includes battery electric vehicles, it has also had a notable focus on hydrogen cars. That said, this new design offers another promising alternative, particularly when keeping its high energy density in mind. This can make it a solid option for sectors where energy storage efficiency and transportation are central, such as power generation and transport.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/from-fertilizer-to-fuel-can-green-ammonia-be-a-climate-fix#:~:text=The%20traditional%2C%20cheap%20way%20of,of%20hundreds%20of%20degrees%20Celsius.
The simplest way to slash emissions from ammonia production is to take natural gas out of the equation and instead make hydrogen by splitting water with electricity sourced from renewables. The rest of the Haber-Bosch process remains the same, powered by renewable electricity. This is what the Minnesota plant, located at the University’s West Central Research and Outreach Center in the town of Morris, was doing when it opened in 2013, and it’s what many other commercial endeavors are planning on now. “This is a very dynamic field; there’s news out every day,” says Macfarlane.
Since 2018, experimental wind-driven green ammonia plants have been running in Britain and Japan. In the United States, CF Industries — the world’s current largest producer of ammonia — plans to have a flagship green ammonia plant at Donaldsonville, Louisiana producing 20,000 tons per year by 2023. In Australia, Yara’s Pilbara ammonia plant aims to produce 3,500 tons of green ammonia annually by the end of 2022, scaling that up 50-fold by 2030. The largest project on the books is planned for Saudi Arabia: A plant scheduled to open in 2025 aims to make 1.2 million tons of green ammonia per year. These plants are energy-hungry beasts that need dedicated wind or solar farms to power them, says Macfarlane.

Power production companies, too, are developing turbines that run on ammonia for electricity production. It might seem crazy to use electricity to make hydrogen, use that to make ammonia, move the ammonia, and turn it back into electricity again — you only get about 20 to 30 percent of the electricity back at the end, notes Faria, compared to say the 98 percent efficiency of a battery. But the benefits of easily storing and transporting that energy outweigh this problem, he says.

[AzCal Retred]

This plant was originally slated to be CAES only, but it was pointed out to them that using H2 electrolyzers makes it possible to store multiples more energy in the salt caverns than as CAES only. Expander turbines recapture some compressed gas energy when it is brought out to the HRSG generation plant. Commercial electrolyzers convert unneeded off-peak wind & solar into H2 gas and reduce the storage compression pressure delta. This facility makes renewables more useful, in turn increasing renewable investment.

You'll have to quiz SCE & PGE as to why they aren't all over this. Last numbers I ran were about 10:1 more bang for the buck in the Utah H2 plant concept than in battery storage. Salt domes don't "wear out" in 20 years like most batteries do. However, there is way more "Capital Spend" 10% guaranteed RoR money to be had in batteries. Just another case of Private Utilities favorite mantra - "Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money..." ?

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-fuel-utah-battery/8562394/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=9EoFC&awt_m=h3DbEZVRdO5DlsU

A small town in the state will be a part of a unique new plan for the H2 production as clean energy.
Just outside Delta, Utah, there is a small one-stoplight town that will soon be home to a massive underground battery that will use hydrogen fuel for storing excess energy.The project is part of a broader plan to produce a clean form of energy that can be stored in caverns.
The idea is to make it possible to produce carbon-free energy that can be stored in caverns so that it can be cleanly used to generate electricity when it is needed. In essence, it will be a massive battery that will be stored underground.
The location has two massive caverns underground, each of which is as tall as the Empire State Building.
The caverns are massive geological salt formations, where water is being used to remove the salt by dissolving it. Once the caverns are ready, they will be appropriate for storing large amounts of energy in the form of hydrogen fuel in gaseous form.
With this project, developers are seeking to use H2 to a larger potential than is typically the case. Among the developers is Chevron, the energy giant, which has purchased a majority stake in one of the two projects taking place in the tiny Utah town. This project will store excess electricity generated by solar and wind farms in the spring and fall when demand is low. Then, it will use the stored energy in the summer when the demand for electricity is high.From the stored hydrogen fuel, the electricity will be generated once again by using the H2 in a plant that will be built across the road from where the caverns are located. Initially, the plant will use a blend of H2 and natural gas and will burn it for electricity production.

[AzCal Retred]

I believe the German WW2 piston aircraft used several upside-down engines, as well as the British Gypsy Moth?

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/ferrari-upside-down-hydrogen-engine/8563956/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=9EoFC&awt_m=hM5Vh68zNO5DlsU#google_vignette

Ferrari’s patent reveals a concept that could potentially leapfrog the efforts of its competitors. The proposed engine boasts an inline-six configuration favored not just for its power delivery but also for facilitating the integration of hydrogen tanks strategically positioned on either side.

The Hydrogen Engine Design and Potential Impact on Performance
This unconventional upside down arrangement allows for a higher placement of the transaxle, paving the way for a more aggressive rear diffuser. All this is achieved without compromising the vehicle’s length, retaining a short wheelbase which Ferrari deems crucial for a true sports car experience.

[GlennF]

Not that unconventional the famous DB engines that powered the WWII bf109 fighters were an inverted V12.