[AzCal Retred]

Salt cavern storage of H2 is +100 year old tech, a well travelled path. It provides low-cost Utility grade energy storage capacity. We are already living in the future, the Petro boys just won't like it too much, leveraging 1930's tech against their megamind money machine.

https://vortexenergycorp.com/2023/09/12/vortex-energy-submits-diamond-drilling-application-for-exploration-approval-for-the-
robinsons-river-salt-project/

About RESPEC Consulting Inc.
RESPEC is a global leader in diverse technologies and draws from a wide array of expertise, products, and services to deliver world-class solutions for business, mining, energy, water, natural resources, urban development, infrastructure, and enterprise services. RESPEC’s subsurface experts have evaluated over 1,000 caverns in nearly every major cavern storage region in the world. RESPEC’s over 50-year history underground has helped to pioneer in-house specialty software and rock lab testing that focuses on designing solution-mined and conventionally mined storage caverns. RESPEC also plays a similar role with the ACES Delta in Utah, the world’s largest green hydrogen project under construction.

About Vortex Energy Corp.
Vortex Energy Corp. is an exploration stage company engaged principally in the acquisition, exploration, and development of mineral properties in North America. The company is currently advancing its Robinson River Salt Project comprised of a total of 942 claims covering 23,500 hectares located approximately 35 linear kms south of the town of Stephenville in the Province of Newfoundland & Labrador. The Robinson River Salt Project is prospective for both salt and hydrogen salt cavern storage. The company is actively evaluating technologies to efficiently store hydrogen or energy in salt caverns. Vortex Energy Corp. also holds the Fire Eye Project, which is located in the Wollaston Domain of northern Saskatchewan, Canada.

https://www.airliquide.com/group/press-releases-news/2017-01-03/usa-air-liquide-operates-worlds-largest-hydrogen-storage-facility

[AzCal Retred]

Biggo batteries - great for battery sales, utility level energy storage, not so much...

Fire at Queensland Tesla Battery Storage Site Continues to Burn

https://www.energyportal.eu/news/tesla-lithium-battery-fire-hits-landmark-queensland-energy-project-sparking-political-debate/305476/

A Tesla battery fire at a large-scale battery storage site in Queensland is expected to burn for days, prompting authorities to urge nearby residents to stay indoors to avoid hazardous fumes. Emergency services were called to the site in Bouldercombe, south of Rockhampton, on Tuesday evening. The fire has been contained, but fire crews have been instructed by Tesla to allow the fire to burn out. Residents in the area have been advised to stay indoors to avoid the harmful smoke.
The battery, known as ‘Big Bessie’, is part of a site owned by renewable energy and storage developer Genex. It consists of 40 lithium Megapack 2.0 units supplied by Tesla.
The cause of the fire is currently under investigation, and Genex will be seeking advice from Tesla to determine any potential causes. Authorities have stated that the fire does not appear to be suspicious.

[Racer57]

The Hindenburg disaster will slow if not stop mass production of hydrogen vehicles the same as 3-mile Island has done with nuclear plants. 

[AzCal Retred]

Explain in plain english how a May 6, 1937 Zeppelin event, 86 years ago, has anything to do with 2023 AD salt dome storage of a combustible gas, either H2 or CH4. Hindenburg burned to the ground at the top of a 300 foot tower at night but only 35 of the 97 people on board died. Pretty favorable survival numbers compared with a modern airliner dropping out of the sky at 600 MPH. For extra credit document casualties from chemical industry accidents (start with Bhopal India), airline travel, auto travel, alcohol sales, the pharmaceutical industry, firearm sales and railroad mishaps.

We depend on stored energy to live "modern" lives. What's the real reason for throwing shade on hydrogen as a medium for renewable energy storage? Do you have one? Have any numbers to back up an opinion? I do.

I worked in a nuke plant. They work well when operated by Federal agencies, less so when run by private utilities. TMI melted its core and the containment structure did its job, so the engineering worked. If Exelon hadn't scrimped on routine testing and I&C maintenance it'd still be running today. There isn't a reasonable way to get to a low carbon future without more nukes and renewable energy storage. Hydrogen is the most reasonable storage medium, but Utilities make more money installing pricey batteries.

[GlennF]

Fire at Queensland Tesla Battery Storage Site Continues to Burn

 Authorities have stated that the fire does not appear to be suspicious.

yeah there is a bit of an issue in Australia with the anti-tech types who hate on 5G, renewable energy, vaccines etc etc sometimes go the activist route and blowup cell towers and stuff.

[AzCal Retred]

Luddites over here too. We're waaaay past 1951 at 8,000,000,000 and counting. Far too late to stake out a half a kilometer of river bank and live on fish, small game and a garden. Somehow I don't think a big pickup, a bad attitude and a few boxes of shells are going to assure one of continued existence. About 2 years into it when all the gas has turned to varnish and the last commercial primer is spent you may wish you had learned more atlatl skills and had less arthritis. There's no way a low tech society could maintain these present population numbers, and without cooperation & organization that's where you end up - the stone age.

“Nasty, Brutish, and Short”: Hobbes on Life in the State of Nature
https://1000wordphilosophy.com/2021/07/14/hobbes-on-the-state-of-nature/#:~:text=What%20would%20life%20be%20like,%2C%20brutish%2C%20and%20short.%E2%80%9D

What would life be like without any government? Would it be a utopia, or would it be miserable?
The English philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679) famously leaned in the latter direction. He argued in his book Leviathan[1] that, without government, life would be “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”[2]

1. The State of Nature
Hobbes imagines what life would be like in the “state of nature,” a hypothetical world without governments.

Hobbes thinks all humans are equal when it comes to matters of survival. Nobody is powerful enough to be immune to attack. Even the weakest person can kill the strongest if there’s nobody around to stop them.[3]

In the state of nature, this equal ability to kill each other leads to mistrust. All of your belongings, and your life itself, might be taken at any moment, because there is no greater power to stop anyone from attacking you.

Some people would attack you because they need your resources to survive. Others would attack you because they want to be more powerful than everyone else. Even those who don’t need or want to attack you are a danger, because they can’t trust that you will leave them alone, so to be safe, they must attack you first.[4]

The end result is that the state of nature consists of a war of all against all.[5] You must constantly be ready to fight, even if you’d prefer not to, because the only way to ensure your safety is to go after others before they go after you.[6]

In this state of nature, projects like farming, manufacturing, science, and the arts are a waste of time, because there’s no guarantee you’ll enjoy the fruits of your labor. Someone can take it from you at any moment. Everyone lives in “continual fear and danger of violent death.”[7] It’s awful!

Hobbes says that if you doubt it would be so bad, think about how you act under your existing government. Even with the police just a phone call away, don’t you lock your doors when you sleep at night?

According to Hobbes, if you can’t trust your neighbors to leave you alone even when there are laws against theft and assault, imagine how much worse it would be if people were free to do anything they thought was necessary to survive in the state of nature.[8]

[Richard230]

What would it be without a government?

Perhaps something like San Francisco and Oakland, CA. Yesterday Target announced that they were closing their stores in both cities, as well as the one in the city of Pittsburgh, on October 21, due to organized crime. Also, two other stores in Portland, OR, and one each in Seattle, WA and NYC are closing. Gangs of teenagers and young people are walking into their stores and running out with whatever they can grab, while the security guards just stand around watching them because they don't want to be involved in a fight, or to be sued if one of the criminals get injured. Meanwhile, the cops show up hours later to take a report and almost never arrest anyone. This is the tip of a slowly melting iceberg.

That could be your future without a government. Just like the Mad Max movies. 

[Racer57]

I never said that I personally feel that way. But lots of people do.  Shame your unable to post without the childish drama.

Explain in plain english how a May 6, 1937 Zeppelin event, 86 years ago, has anything to do with 2023 AD salt dome storage of a combustible gas, either H2 or CH4. Hindenburg burned to the ground at the top of a 300 foot tower at night but only 35 of the 97 people on board died. Pretty favorable survival numbers compared with a modern airliner dropping out of the sky at 600 MPH. For extra credit document casualties from chemical industry accidents (start with Bhopal India), airline travel, auto travel, alcohol sales, the pharmaceutical industry, firearm sales and railroad mishaps.

We depend on stored energy to live "modern" lives. What's the real reason for throwing shade on hydrogen as a medium for renewable energy storage? Do you have one? Have any numbers to back up an opinion? I do.

I worked in a nuke plant. They work well when operated by Federal agencies, less so when run by private utilities. TMI melted its core and the containment structure did its job, so the engineering worked. If Exelon hadn't scrimped on routine testing and I&C maintenance it'd still be running today. There isn't a reasonable way to get to a low carbon future without more nukes and renewable energy storage. Hydrogen is the most reasonable storage medium, but Utilities make more money installing pricey batteries.

[AzCal Retred]

It's a greater shame that you won't clearly post without innuendo what you intend to say. This victim-forming disavowment of intent is a pattern. God knows where you learned it from.

[Leofric]

It's a greater shame that you won't clearly post without innuendo what you intend to say. This victim-forming disavowment of intent is a pattern. God knows where you learned it from.

I thought he was just being sarcastic .

[AzCal Retred]

The Hindenburg disaster will slow if not stop mass production of hydrogen vehicles the same as 3-mile Island has done with nuclear plants.
I thought he was just being sarcastic .

I think you might be the only one.

[axman88]

The Hindenburg disaster will slow if not stop mass production of hydrogen vehicles the same as 3-mile Island has done with nuclear plants.
I thought he was just being sarcastic .

I think you might be the only one.

Sarcasm would explain a lot of Racers' posts of a more political nature.  Those made even less sense as statements of either position or fact.

Regarding Luftschiffbau Zeppelin 129, "Hindenburg", it wasn't powered by hydrogen, its engines used diesel fuel.

And, it had been designed to be filled with helium, not hydrogen.  At that time, the USA controlled the only substantial supply of helium, and, since the Hindenburg was being partially funded by the Nazi ministry of Propaganda, and used for various public relations roles like dropping thousands of Nazi flags for school children, the USA declined to supply the German company with the noble gas.  Thus, Luftschiffbau Zeppelin had no choice.  It the craft was to fly, it would have to be filled with hydrogen.

There is also, a very plausible theory that the fire that consumed the aircraft was NOT due to its gas filler, but rather to the flammable skin.  Luftschiffbau Zeppelin had coated the fabric skin with highly flammable  cellulose acetate dope, and covered that with aluminum powder, which has been used for rocket fuel, and is conductive.  The resulting silver finish really made the big red and black swastikas on the tail pop.

When the Hindenburg burned, it did so with reddish flames, but hydrogen burns with an almost invisible blue flame.

https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/02/26/1052864.htm

The only thing the Hindenburg disaster brought on was a temporary hiatus in zeppelin development, but only from 1938 until 1993, when Luftschiffbau Zeppelin was regenerated from its residual assets.  They are back to making Zepplins since 1996, and Goodyear partnered up with them (again) in 2011.

Hydrogen, as a fuel, goes back to the beginnings of internal combustion.  It was used to power Francois Isaac de Rivaz's 4 wheeled vehicle in 1807.
https://www.automostory.com/first-hydrogen-car.htm

[NVDucati]

Let's keep two of the many aspects of hydrogen in mind ; Hydrogen can be burned as a liquid fuel in internal combustion engines AND be used in a chemical reaction H-Cell to make electricity. Caterpillar has said right out loud that heavy equipment will never succeed on battery electric and logistically rule out a "corded" earth-mover.  So liquid it is.
The hydrogen cell is a replacement for Grid charged batteries. Think light transportation, like cars, busses, small trucks, etc.
Now, along comes me and I say that these two application forms of hydrogen will make a super hybrid!
_ Let's also consider, with the USA as a measure, total transportation energy use is only 27% - 34% of the total energy consumed. ( Department of Energy shows two separate calculations )   Stationary Energy use Housing, manufacturing and recreation eat up the rest. Why we all are so fixated on cars puzzles me. And being that the stationary sector, obviously doesn't move, miniaturization is xx% less important! Local generation will be more feasible.
[end rant// apologies//]

[AzCal Retred]

To NVDs point, unless you are using stored H2 directly (gas or cryogenic fluid) or recombined into a synthetic liquid fuel, in a battery EV you are forced to draw this 30% transport energy from the distribution grid. Using a battery for 4 hours and recharging for 1 hour (or less) really means the grid draw can be effectively doubled or tripled intermittently depending on who's charging up. Intermittent loads are hard to schedule and drive up prices across the board. Rebuilding distribution infrastructure to accommodate these huge intermittent loads is a savage moneymaker for electrical utilities. Buy your stock early!

Using H2 directly or as a liquid synfuel means you get to make the fuel outside of normal large grid load times. Off peak wind & solar or even dedicated renewables can be used for fuel production. Even nuclear sourced electricity can be used. You can use fuel production to allow nuke plants to park at "baseload", which is what they really like to do. There's no reason to completely rebuild the grid ($$$) as there is for battery usage. Refuel anytime you want, it doesn't affect normal grid loading.

Utility bean counters don't like local generation because it 1) reduces need for lucrative grid rebuilding, as power source and load are in the same location, and 2) increases total system power and thus reduces wheeled in power quantities which in turn reduce lucrative "wheeling" fees from the exterior power brought in.

[Racer57]

It's a common observance that when someone does not respond to a comment in an intelligent manner and makes immature personal attacks instead, then they have no intelligent response.