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Bilgemaster

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Reply #30 on: November 24, 2021, 04:52:27 pm
I see. I'm not too clear on the functionality but that might not matter if I dispense with the whole lot.

Attached show scene in the garage a wee while ago.

I cannot really discern all the wiring shown in the headlamp photo, but a quick question: Does your headlamp light up once the engine is running and the lighting switch on the handlebar basically do nothing, as is the case in USA models? If so, you may have a so-called "Dogbone connector" or jumper cable overriding the switch so that the headlamp remains in an "always-on" state while the engine's running. Removal of that intermediary "dogbone" and simply plugging the two now-free ends together will restore functionality to the switch, if you prefer that as I did. However, this is a latter-day goof for US export models to be able to conform with our later regulations. Clearly we could not be trusted to turn our own lights on and off. Of course, yours may never have had this feature, or it may already have been removed and punted into the hedges by a previous owner. I merely thought I'd mention it since you're fussing around in there anyhow. Here's a video that shows the general idea, though your headlamp style, color of the connectors and such may vary: https://youtu.be/UhQUNMKRix4
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India.

 


Karl Childers

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Reply #31 on: November 24, 2021, 05:46:22 pm
The Hitchcock's inner primary kit is nice as it is all inclusive,  hardware, seals, gasket, tap ,even the engine sprocket you will need. Should you ever decide to do it I've come up with a good way to index the holes so the bit doesn't wander and you get accurate bolt location.


Raymond

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Reply #32 on: November 24, 2021, 05:47:21 pm
Thank you Bilgemaster. From very limited saddle time, I think the lighting switch operates as marked - Off, Pilot, On. Can't check now because the battery is out and too many things pulled apart. But inside my headlamp doesn't look the same as in the video.

Always annoying when the legislators find it necessary to do our thinking for us because of an assumption that we are not to be trusted.

Is that a G5 in the vid? Don't know much about the various sub-models yet. Have heard of Sixty-5, E, Machismo but I don't think mine is any of those. I presume that if I could identify the correct model, that would help with finding correct wiring diagram, also parts ordering?
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2007 Kawasaki W800 SE Polly
1978 Yamaha XS650 Miss November
2003 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Deluxe


Raymond

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Reply #33 on: November 24, 2021, 05:50:09 pm
Thank you, Karl, we crossed in the post. How much work is required and is it doable with limited tools & expertise? And do you know how much the Hitchcocks kit costs? Many thanks in advance.
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2007 Kawasaki W800 SE Polly
1978 Yamaha XS650 Miss November
2003 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Deluxe


AzCal Retred

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Reply #34 on: November 24, 2021, 06:53:25 pm
The starter is interlocked in two ways:
First there is a voodoo AC relay that blocks the start solenoid if the engine is running. It looks at the AC signal from the stator, and when frequency & voltage are high enough, the contacts open to the solenoid, blocking the PB (+).
Second is that the start solenoid is "grounded" through the neutral switch and the clutch switch in parallel. If you're either in neutral or the clutch is pulled in, the circuit to ground is completed.
The issue here is that none of these devices are particularly reliable. The AC sensing relay on my ES350 had a fluctuating reading between 5 & 80 ohms. The neutral switches are historically fairly unreliable. The handlebar clutch switch on mine already had a standing 10 ohms when the clutch was engaged, going to maybe only 50,000 ohms when released, not "infinity".

Yes, if you ground the start solenoid at the toolbox and just have a hotwire back from the start PB you can start in gear. In practice, as an adult motorcyclist with your wits about yourself, it's a non-issue. You trade dubious protection for 100% reliable start solenoid operation. My solenoid went from a half-hearted "click" to a resounding "Thwak!" after there was full battery voltage being dropped across its coil.

The real payoff is stopping for a quick picture or maybe a map read or clothing adjustment. Roll to a stop in 1st gear, key off to stop the engine. Compression holds you when parked, so no fooling with the rear brake whilst balancing. When done, key on, clutch in, hit the start button. Now you are running, already in gear. Just feed in some throttle, ease out the clutch and be on your way.

After 55 years of riding it's long ingrained behaviour as to how & when to use the clutch. As far as starting in gear with the clutch out, that learning curve was hammered flat long ago. If I want to be in neutral, I toe into it carefully & rock the bike a bit to verify, I don't care at all what the neutral lamp says.

The ES is a nice feature. My ES350 puts minimal strain on its bits, your 500 would necessarily be more so. My ES 350 makes barely one revolution before starting when warm. I always start with the kick start when cold. I have a tiny 4AH battery in Molly for now and it cranks it over just fine, remarkably enough to me. Measured DC cranking amps to the starter motor on mine is 30A. If you keep the ES feature, the precautions mentioned here by others are prudent. As I age out, I appreciate the ES option of a warm-engine restart even more. If it does frag, H's has improved bits to sort it with.

A trifecta of Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Karl Childers

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Reply #35 on: November 24, 2021, 08:04:35 pm
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/19275?ref_page=SixtyFive

It is not really difficult, remove the outer primary, remove the alternator, then clutch and engine sprocket as one unit with the primary chain, this will require the use of a few inexpensive specialty tools also from Hitchcock's.  Put the new cover in place and drill three shallow holes and thread them with the bottoming tap that is provided and install the studs. A key aspect to locating the holes is to have the transmission shaft seal in place and to visually make sure that the seal is centered on the shaft. I use a bolt in place of the chain adjuster stud to loosely hold the inner primary in place which frees up a hand to make adjustments. I use a sleeve over part of the drill bit to center the drill in the primary cover holes so it does not wallow and give an off center or out of square hole. Really not all that bad to do job wise and just take your time disassembling the clutch so you know to put everything back in the right order. On jobs like this it helps me if I make notes and lay the parts out in order as my memory is not what it once was and also have not torn one of these engines down many times to have intimate knowledge of all the subsystems, if I make a few notes I can walk away for weeks and then come back to it with no problems.

Edit: they have these for both right and left hand shifters, my bike has the shifter on the left.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 08:08:02 pm by Karl Childers »


Adrian II

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Reply #36 on: November 24, 2021, 09:40:46 pm
Raymond,

the cover you linked too on eBay is the correct sort. Apart from the cover itself, new M8 studs and nuts and a replacement gasket where the inner cover sits on the crankcase, the tools you will need are a 6.8mm drill and a set of M8 taps.

You can see on the E/S crankcase half here where the casting has been drilled and tapped for the E/S cover screws in the 12, 4 and 8 o'clock position. The K/S inner timing cover needs them in roughly the 3, 7 and 11 0'clock position, you can see that the alloy is already there waiting to be drilled and tapped. Just don't drill all the way through to the inside of the crankcase, depth mark the drill bit to avoid breaking through.



You can use the K/S inner cover and a M10 drill to mark the hole centres for drilling and tapping, this is easier with the engine and gearbox in the frame, as fitting the inner cover over the clutch shaft further helps with alignment. Note this is a different style of inner primary cover, if you buy the normal Bullet type it won't have the M6 holes around the edge, but the principle is the same.






As you're in the UK, don't forget you can also buy Indian RE Bullet spares from Price Part Motorcycles. Burton bike bits have some parts for the Bullet too.

https://www.pricepartmotorcycles.co.uk/

https://burtonbikebits.net/royal-enfield-parts/

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Raymond

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Reply #37 on: November 24, 2021, 10:20:04 pm
Gentlemen, thank you All for your comments & advice. I have a few options available, and that is always a good thing. It makes some sense to keep the e-start as an option. It also seems the conversion is reasonably straightforward and not ruinously expensive.

It's late and I'm off to bed soon. Often, issues become a lot clearer while I'm in bed. It's amazing how often I've woke up at 2-3 am with some idea broadcasting itself loud and clear.

But if that doesn't happen, then at least in the short term I'll probably leave my options open and not do anything too drastic. After all, the main thing is to have a reliable bike I can go out on and enjoy. But before that there's a long and salty Scottish Winter to get through . . .

Happy that I can now post without proving I'm not a robot every time.
In the garage:
2007 Kawasaki W800 SE Polly
1978 Yamaha XS650 Miss November
2003 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Deluxe


Raymond

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Reply #38 on: November 25, 2021, 11:47:05 am
This morning, tough combination of plastic sleeve and layers of insulating tape puts up valiant resistance:

In the garage:
2007 Kawasaki W800 SE Polly
1978 Yamaha XS650 Miss November
2003 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Deluxe


tooseevee

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Reply #39 on: November 25, 2021, 12:13:19 pm
This morning, tough combination of plastic sleeve and layers of insulating tape puts up valiant resistance:

           Had the same ungodly sticky mess on my '08 AVL. Many just twisted bare wire splices inside that mess of electrical tape. Hours of work to get it all bullet-proof front to back & simplify everything in that whole left case. The factory, especially the new one, got much better over the years since then.
'08 Black AVL Classic.ACEhead 9.8:1/manifold/canister. TM32/Open short bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades


Raymond

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Reply #40 on: November 25, 2021, 03:32:16 pm
 . . . and when I reached the dip in front of the rocker box and behind the headstock, the sleeve was full of water.

Never mind, before I started the bike had a fully operational electrical system. So tomorrow I can start tracing the parts I don't need and remove them. Then we'll see if it's still working . . .
In the garage:
2007 Kawasaki W800 SE Polly
1978 Yamaha XS650 Miss November
2003 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Deluxe


Adrian II

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Reply #41 on: November 25, 2021, 05:27:27 pm
Check the wires where the wiring loom flexes around the headstock, these can become brittle. I've had a battery to ammeter lead snap at that point.

For total rewires - though hopefully yours won't need one - I love THIS stuff. Available in 10 core as well, in case you DO ditch the E/S.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261266757164

A.

Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


cyrusb

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Reply #42 on: November 25, 2021, 05:28:43 pm
Wellcome, Did you mention the mileage?
 Judging by the chain adjuster position it may be low.
 Also do you think it may have had it's head off in the past?
 Enjoy, it's a good looking machine that landed in the right place.
2005E Fixed and or Replaced: ignition, fenders,chainguard,wires,carb,headlight,seat,tailight,sprockets,chain,shocks,fork springs, exhaust system, horn,shifter,clutch arm, trafficators,crankcase vent.


Raymond

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Reply #43 on: November 25, 2021, 06:25:14 pm
Thank you Adrian - I usually go to these people:

https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/

They supply thin tracer wire in a huge range of colours, Japanese-style 3.9 mm bullet connectors - ought to be ideal? - and loads of electrical parts for cars and bikes.

The wiring on the bike seems to be generally in good condition. Reflects that hopefully the bike has had very light use and a lot of care. Some changes from standard wiring, such as the Boyer Power box. And I don't know which wiring diagram would be correct. The one I was given, mentioned at post #12, seems to be close. Plus it's in colour!

And thank you Cyrus B, you are very kind. The bike has recorded just short of 10,000 KM which would be about 6,200 miles. Of course, it's an eighteen-year old bike . . . but I do have a pile of MOT certificates back to 2009 and they seem to verify that figure.

No idea at the moment whether the head has ever been off.
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2007 Kawasaki W800 SE Polly
1978 Yamaha XS650 Miss November
2003 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Deluxe


cyrusb

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Reply #44 on: November 25, 2021, 08:09:21 pm
That mileage isn't that unusual. My '05 has just over 10k miles.
 Many owners have other bikes like yourself, using the Bullet sparingly as a time machine.
  I asked about the head because it appears to have been painted.
 Did you get the stock ignition with the bike? It's EMP proof!!! ;D
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 08:13:30 pm by cyrusb »
2005E Fixed and or Replaced: ignition, fenders,chainguard,wires,carb,headlight,seat,tailight,sprockets,chain,shocks,fork springs, exhaust system, horn,shifter,clutch arm, trafficators,crankcase vent.