Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum

Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: Maturin on January 30, 2011, 07:27:43 pm

Title: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Maturin on January 30, 2011, 07:27:43 pm
Let´s help our Indian friends to find a solution
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: daves02ES on January 30, 2011, 07:45:37 pm
No question, parallel twin. :)
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: r80rt on January 30, 2011, 07:57:07 pm
Inline twin, like a Sunbeam S7. ;D
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: davem on January 30, 2011, 08:37:39 pm
It's a v twin for me
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Ice on January 30, 2011, 09:50:09 pm
P Twin please.

( I think Msr. McQueen may be looking down on us with a wry grin over this )
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: kodai on January 30, 2011, 09:54:43 pm
   V-twin
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 30, 2011, 09:59:11 pm
I vote parallel twin BUT if they're making this bike to take on Harley at home they may be more inclined to a v-twin to compete more directly.

Scott
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: ScooterBob on January 30, 2011, 10:07:55 pm
Inline twin, like a Sunbeam S7. ;D

HA! - Only YOU would come up with up that .... !  ;) I was gonna say like a Velocette LE .....  ::)
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Ice on January 30, 2011, 10:26:39 pm
I vote parallel twin BUT if they're making this bike to take on Harley at home they may be more inclined to a v-twin to compete more directly.

Scott

My initial reaction was H-D has has twenty year head start in advertising with Billions spent in that department for RE to make any headway at all with a V-Twin.

And then a V Star rumbled past,,,,,,,

Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: CCTXCN on January 30, 2011, 10:28:12 pm
I would like a 750 parallel and a 1000 v-twin
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: r80rt on January 30, 2011, 10:32:31 pm
HA! - Only YOU would come up with up that .... !  ;) I was gonna say like a Velocette LE .....  ::)
I was kind of thinking about a Douglas Dragonfly too ;D
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: bullethead63 on January 30, 2011, 10:53:26 pm
V twin,like Aniket's Musket... :o
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: UncleErnie on January 31, 2011, 12:12:32 am
Well, as long as there's a contest;
How about a V-twin like a Victoria Burgmeister.
Just to be different...
RE's first shaft drive!
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: ScooterBob on January 31, 2011, 12:15:01 am
My initial reaction was H-D has has twenty year head start in advertising with Billions spent in that department for RE to make any headway at all with a V-Twin.

And then a V Star rumbled past,,,,,,,



Isn't it amazing what you can do quietly, with a little technology and a willingness to innovate? Hahaha! I'm guessing that the whole "Vee-Twin" thing is getting a bit long int he tooth for the general buying public ..... but I don't know for sure - my crystal ball has a chip in it ....  ::)
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 31, 2011, 02:07:16 am
Parallel of course........or maybe an in-line 4 ::)
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 31, 2011, 02:16:40 am
And then a V Star rumbled past,,,,,,,

I owned a V-star 650 Classic.  It was great on gas, ran flawlessly all day long, low maintenance with shaft drive, and looked like a bike twice as big as it really was.  I liked it so much I've actually thought about buying one again several times.  The only thing I didn't like is that the pegs are so far forward you're always getting a draft up your pants.  I guess style trumps function in the cruiser market.

Gorilla, I don't think the V-twin market is nearly played out in the US.  As evidence I offer the fact that HD is still around selling hugely expensive bikes even in this economy, as are all it's imitators foreign and domestic.

Scott
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: ace.cafe on January 31, 2011, 02:25:25 am
I can't decide, because I like both types.

However, the V-Twin thing is far from "played out".
The V-Twin in a wider vee than Harley can be extremely good for inherent engine balance. Much better than any parallel twin.
The vertical twin has all balancing forces in the primary plane. The wider V-Twins address the secondary plane issues much better.
The Ducati 90-degree V-Twin design is an excellent example of this.

From a pure engine design view, the V-Twin can be better than the parallel twin can be.
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: robbw on January 31, 2011, 02:59:32 am
I prefer the parallel myself, but I would have to agree with Scotty in terms of competition with Harley.  They may do better with the v-twin.  However, there is always the possibility that an aggressive and strategic marketing campaing could change the wind in the opposite direction. 
Take JetBlue for instance.  In April of 2009 they offered an "All  You Can Fly Ticket" for $599.  The ad only ran for a few days and only a certain number of tickets were available.  The ticket allowed you to fly as often as you wanted for an entire month.  Yes, they lost some money on this deal, but the brand recognition paid off in the end.  Almost every major and minor news agency in America reported on this.  JetBlue garnered a lot of new customers as a result of this campaign.  I personally think it is brilliant and certainly something that other companies could and should get inspired by. It would be easy to imagine possibilities. Let’s say Microsoft offered the Zune with unlimited life downloads of music for a few days. It might lose some money on all of those sales but the return in branding could be even better.  It's all about consumer psychology, lol.  :D :D
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: r80rt on January 31, 2011, 03:04:32 am
I had a 04 V star 650 classic with running boards instead of pegs, I loved that bike.
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 31, 2011, 03:17:37 am
Mine was a year or two earlier when they still had pegs on the Classic.  Yeah, nice bike.  When I went to sell it I talked with a buyer who did trade ins all over SoCal.  He told me what he could pay and knew I wouldn't take it.  He said it was an awesome bike but they just didn't sell many for some reason he couldn't really figure out.

Scott
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 31, 2011, 03:25:55 am


Gorilla, I don't think the V-twin market is nearly played out in the US.  As evidence I offer the fact that HD is still around selling hugely expensive bikes even in this economy, as are all it's imitators foreign and domestic.

Scott

Well, that wasn't me that wrote that, but i think the point was that enough is enough with the V-twins already. With Harley and all the the other manufacturers trying to out Harley, Harley. And some pretty good at it. Yes, a quite successfull line to imitate, but not what it was a few years ago.
 I would be a little concerned if RE were to come out with a V-twin and it were to be viewed as "just another Harley copy". No matter how good the design, or how far from the truth a statement like that would be.I say we keep the bike different, that may not be the best way to go marketing wise,Or engineering wise, but i think that's why most of us bought an Enfield.
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: prof_stack on January 31, 2011, 03:33:07 am
Perhaps Enfield could make a 90 degree v-twin and turn the motor sideways so the air cooling is more efficient.  Put a shaft drive on it to take advantage of the crankshaft direction.  They could out-Guzzi Moto Guzzi!   ;D
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: robbw on January 31, 2011, 03:47:31 am
I say we keep the bike different, that may not be the best way to go marketing wise,Or engineering wise, but i think that's why most of us bought an Enfield.
Yes. This is what I'm saying.  Keep the bike DIFFERENT, but throw a good marketing campaign behind it to show that there are other options out there beside the typical HD's.  A lot of avid riders don't even know what an RE is. 
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: singhg5 on January 31, 2011, 04:16:04 am
I want to see a parallel twin.  Way too many V-twins, look alikes. 
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Bullet Bill on January 31, 2011, 04:34:13 am
I'd like a parallel twin too, but the Enfield might have some serious, cheaper competition in that category in the European market.  Kawasaki's releasing the w800, and while the Triumph Bonneville series is declining in quality in recent years, it's still much better known than RE.
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 31, 2011, 04:50:42 am
Well, that wasn't me that wrote that...

Oops!  I've had a few cocktails today ;)

I think the key to a successful twin of any variety in the international market for RE is better quality control and good pricing.  I'm sure the RE will have more retro styling than anything else out there and that's the hook that will bring people in.  There's nothing out there like an RE.  I still wonder why Kawasaki stopped selling the W650 and the Drifter in the US.  Those bikes were both awesome!

Scott
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Andy on January 31, 2011, 05:47:08 am
Opposed twin didn't make the list, I see...  :P

I wouldn't turn my nose up at a transverse V Guzzi-style, but what I'd really like is a big bore sloper single like the Panther.

Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: gashousegorilla on January 31, 2011, 05:56:50 am
Oops!  I've had a few cocktails today ;)

Scott
I say we all go out and discuss this over cocktails :P
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 31, 2011, 06:37:29 am
Brilliant!  Oh wait!  It's 1:30am by you.  Well, I'll just have one for you then ;)

Scott
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: ace.cafe on January 31, 2011, 01:45:35 pm
I think if they plan to do a parallel twin, it should look like one of the RE older twins to maintain the "throwback to the heritage" kind of retro look.
That's what Triumph and Ducati and Guzzi all did too. It hearkens back to the memory of the old "glory days", so it makes sense.

It could look something like this Royal Enfield Interceptor
(http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/royal_enfield_750_interceptor.jpg)

If they do a V-Twin, they should definitely avoid any temptation to do a chopper-esque cruiser. That would really be "me too" in a bad way, coming in at the very end of the over-done trend.
A V-Twin standard bike or sporty bike would be nice instead. All V-Twins don't have to be choppers or Harley clones. There's a variety of ways they could go with that. They could even go futher retro, and make something styled like the old KX1140 Royal Enfield V-Twin from the 1930s., and that would have RE heritage too.
That could satisfy the cravings of some people on the "Classic Bullet Forum" who want girder forks and hardtails and that "ancient look".

Like this maroon-colored Royal Enfield KX1140 here.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2664/3886744724_ffdf72c8c2.jpg)
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: r80rt on January 31, 2011, 01:55:27 pm
RE has dabbled in more than one type of V twin ;)
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: ace.cafe on January 31, 2011, 02:18:43 pm
Yes, and there have been private efforts too.

Such as Aniket's Bullet-based Musket 700
(http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Royal-Enfield-Musket-V-Twin-700.jpg)


And the Carberry Bullet-based "Double Barrel 1000"
(http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/motorbikes/97201d1233681507-bullet-lovers-rejoice-someone-else-built-enfield-v-twin-carberry9.jpg)
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: singhg5 on January 31, 2011, 03:09:07 pm
@ACE:

After seeing the pictures you have posted of a parallel twin - Interceptor and a V-twin - Carberry, I am ambivalent which one to choose  :D.  Both of them look impressive - though I had initially preferred a parallel twin. 

I liked what you said that not all v-twins have to be Harley clones and that there are other ways to do it - that makes them look good and perform better !   
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: r80rt on January 31, 2011, 03:12:56 pm
Yep, those guys have built some cool bikes, no doubt about it. No matter what RE decides to build it will be a great design, but I still like 500cc singles better than anything else.
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Ducati Scotty on January 31, 2011, 03:53:43 pm
I was thinking to leave the transverse V to Guzzi but that old black and white pic looks kinda cool!  Shaft drive would raise the price though, as would a whole new engine and frame utilizing so little of what they already have.

Scott
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: ScooterBob on January 31, 2011, 05:49:59 pm
RE has dabbled in more than one type of V twin ;)

Wow ................!
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: tpelle on January 31, 2011, 08:15:02 pm
I voted in-line twin, because an in-line twin is more "British" (although a case could be made for the Vincent, I guess).
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Warwick on January 31, 2011, 09:06:15 pm
If the new Vtwin looked like a vincent (as does the carberry) its a winner. However, I still like the parrallel twin too. RE is lucky. With so much history of both they can pick and choose.
w
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: r80rt on January 31, 2011, 10:56:46 pm
There was a Royal Enfield triple too ;D
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Ragmas on January 31, 2011, 11:16:46 pm
It wasn't an option but I say opposed twin.  I really like BMWs.  V twin simply for the likeliehood of less tooth chattering THUMP.


Sam
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: nigelogston@gmail.com on February 01, 2011, 11:29:40 am
Why not beat them all at their own game and do a parallel twin 270 firing angle.  Then you get the Brit-retro  looks  (yes V twin has been beaten to death with wannabees) and also the to die for sound, with a little more emphasis on torque than power.  Keep the upright seating position like the Bullet (or Meteor for that matter)  and then you have something unique on the market whose only comptetion in miles would be the Kawasaki W 800.  I think brand can do the rest .  After all which would you rather have---an authentic Royal Enfield revisitiation of it's own style, or a Japanese throwback to their own owopy bike of the the 1960's. ?  Of sound is what sells REs in India, a 270 oughta do it.   Nigel.
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: nigelogston@gmail.com on February 01, 2011, 11:44:04 am
Sorry, no cocktails yet but not enough coffee this morning:  Those last lines should have read, ".....throwback to their own copy bike of the 1960's ?   If sound is what sells REs in India a 270(degree) oughta do it.  Nigel.
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: ace.cafe on February 01, 2011, 02:32:24 pm
Sorry, no cocktails yet but not enough coffee this morning:  Those last lines should have read, ".....throwback to their own copy bike of the 1960's ?   If sound is what sells REs in India a 270(degree) oughta do it.  Nigel.

Nigel,
Point well-taken about the cross-plane crank.

Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Maturin on February 03, 2011, 02:29:31 pm
I didn´t mention any fireing angles for inline twins in the vote because I thought it would be crystal clear that we´re talking about a parallel twin. If it were clear about the possible variations of twin and the different opinions about them in the forum I´d have them added to the poll aswell. Sorry about that, maby ammunition for a following poll  :)

My personal taste is definitely a parallel twin, as RE doesn´t need a high performance power plant. When you look for torque and are willing to avoid high revs, this thing will go like ape shit  ;D
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 03, 2011, 05:58:44 pm
When you look for torque and are willing to avoid high revs, this thing will go like ape shit  ;D

'Nuff said ;)
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: P. Schraub on February 04, 2011, 03:03:23 am
Hey Folks,
      It's a no-brainer...parallel twin ! I remember as a teen ager seeing my first Royal Enfield Interceptor 750 cc, and wondered ( now ), if they would ever come back.
      The V-Twin market is covered.......between Harley, Victory , and the Japanese, it makes no sense for R.E. to compete with them. That is the same mistake that I think the new Indian is making.......they're pursuing a V-Twin market when they should have focused on their in-line 4 cylinder!  Why the hell didn't they think of that !
       Royal Enfield is famous for their singles and twins, and they should stay with that........just an opinion.
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: ace.cafe on February 04, 2011, 01:24:18 pm
I have sort of an emotional inclination to the parallel twin, in an Interceptor-like styling too.
And I certainly agree that is the most recent heritage of the RE twins.

But I also like V-Twins. They don't have to be choppers or low-riders. Ducati does an excellent job with sporting V-Twins, and Suzuki became almost the "de facto standard bike" with their 650 V-Strom, and are others like that too.
So a V-Twin doesn't have  to be in the "cliche" chopper-esque bike style.

I would be happy to see either type.
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Bullet.wagon on February 04, 2011, 02:52:06 pm
I like both also. I  think India will build what there market would want,since we are only a small portion of the pie. In other words,not sure if the Intercepter was their bag and they may want to go modern,like liquid cooled?
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Maturin on February 04, 2011, 03:49:12 pm
I like both also. I  think India will build what there market would want,since we are only a small portion of the pie. In other words,not sure if the Intercepter was their bag and they may want to go modern,like liquid cooled?

Regarding the present RE-infrastructure in India I expect a low-tech-engine without liquid cooling or overhead camshafts. The easyest thing to do would be just double a Bullet using as many identical parts as possible. If that theory is correct we´ll see a 700ccm and a 1000ccm version, both OHV and air cooled (and wouldn´t that be  8) ?)
Title: Re: RE BIG BIKE
Post by: Ducati Scotty on February 04, 2011, 04:38:28 pm
Agreed, I don't think they're going to make a radical liquid cooled departure.  Remember, these are daily driver vehicles for many Indians and simplicity and reliability are key.

Scott