Author Topic: Valve/tappet adjustment  (Read 6078 times)

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GSS

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on: September 16, 2021, 06:01:27 am
Posting my experience in response to Dexter’s PM. Both seats need to be unbolted and removed first. The fuel tank came off really easily…..one electrical and one fuel connector on the left side, and two rubber tubes on the right side.

The cover was more of a circus to remove than anticipated…..I disconnected the fuel injector electrical connector at the rear, as well as the tube at the front of the cylinder head. I also unbolted the little plate on the left that was held by two small Allen head screws as this retains the valve cover gasket on the left side. It was a total pain to pull out the cover as there is no clearance on the top.  A lot of time was wasted in cleaning up contact cement that had been used to stick the gasket to the cover. Additionally, the fat part of the gasket on the left side had been glued on to the cylinder head with a generous quantity of high temperature RTV silicone and was very difficult to remove without damaging the gasket.

The intake valve was incredibly tight with virtually no gap, and I could barely slip a 0.08 gauge on the exhaust side. I carefully adjusted these to 0.08 and 0.18.  After that I couldn’t get the cover and gasket back on. At that point I realized that you need to remove the 2 bolts that connect the ignition coil bracket to the right side of the frame and you can swing that out of the way, and there is another part hanging off the right side of the frame from a rubber hanger that also slips off. With these two out of the way the cover and gasket slip back on easily.

The engine was incredibly noisy with the tappets at these settings, so I had the pleasure of redoing this again, but this time it took minutes to get things off and on as I unbolted the coil bracket and unhooked the rubber hanger. I am not sure if 0.08 and 0.18 are the correct gaps.  All the videos I subsequently watched show folks overtightening the tappets while using very worn out feeler gauges so the gaps likely end up being smaller.  I set mine to 0.07 and 0.16 and this time the high frequency tinging from loose tappets was gone and they sounded fairly decent, but within the upper spectrum of RE noisy.

Also discovered an oddball Bosch plug that is different from other REs….will need to find a NGK equivalent. Engine has always run rich with occasional exhaust popping on deceleration…..and this is with stock air filter and exhaust….plug color looked good but there was definitely a bit of carbon on the cylinder head while looking down the hole for the spark plug.

Hope this helps others. Without having torque settings for the Meteor, I had to look through Himalayan and Interceptor manuals to determine safe torque specs for similar bolts. Overall a fairly straightforward process but would have been easier with a manual and various gap and torque specs in hand.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 06:20:50 am by GSS »
2022 Continental GT 650 Dux Deluxe
2019 Himalayan Snow
2019 Interceptor 650 - Chrome...off the first boat!
Previous REs:
2021 Meteor 350 Supernova Blue
2014 Continental GT 535 - Red...lowest VIN off the first boat!
2010 Classic 500 - Teal Chrome


Dexter

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Reply #1 on: September 16, 2021, 07:27:28 am
You will be the rock star for all who come after you and attempt to do their valve adjustments, as you are for me now!

I had a hell of a time getting that valve cover off too, after moving out of the way the same wire and hoses and then somehow managed to twist it out on the right side. The gasket came off the cover easily prior to getting the cover out, with no sign of glue or RTV anywhere. I wasn't aware of how it was held in place on the left side of the head by those two screws. That tip will come in handy for replacement time.

At that point, once ensuring the piston was on TDC of the intake stroke, reinforced by seeing the tiny "T" stamped into the cam drive gear facing straight up, I tried a 0.08mm feeler gauge in the intake tappet. I couldn't even find any space to start going in, so I went to an 0.06mm gauge and it wouldn't go in either, OR in the exhaust valve, which needs a 0.18 gauge!    WTF!

How can these valves seem be so tight and not have melted already?

I was using a short set of feeler gauges and I thought my problem might lie in not getting in there well enough to find the gap, with my hands having to work so close to the tappets too, so I gave up at that point. Tomorrow, I am going to buy some longer gauges and continue with this not so routine valve inspection. Removing the coil bracket is another good tip that I will employ.

Your experience has me questioning the validity of the specs we have found on line too. What we really could use would be confirmation from someone who has hands on the RE factory service manual. My tappets were not making any noise at all prior to me starting this.

The spark plug is the weirdest I have ever seen, because of its length and it was in there incredibly tight. Far more than you need to tighten a spark plug. I think I will put a bit of anti seize on those threads when it goes back in.

Stay tuned.



Past rides:
1966 Honda 65 Sport
1967 Honda CB160
1973 Honda CB750
1982 Honda V45 Magna - the most uncomfortable bike I ever did a cross country tour on!
1983 Honda CB1000
1995 Honda ST1100 - sold 2015 after 175,000 km
1996 Honda ST1100
Current ride:
2021 Royal Enfield Stellar Blue Meteor 350


AzCal Retred

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Reply #2 on: September 16, 2021, 04:42:14 pm
The Himalayan has a cam with a centripetal advance doo-dad built into in, so the base circle moves around for (I think) the intake side. Mebbe the 350 uses a similar lash-up? As long as the machine work is perfect the tappet gap would be the same, but...? Possibly they are manually advancing the cam to set tappet gap, IF the 350 cam in fact has the auto advance feature? I have not seen a picture of the 350 cams yet.
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20MarkIII

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Reply #3 on: September 16, 2021, 05:34:35 pm
I've put around 150 miles on the Meteor since tappet adjustment and it's running fine. My method described on another thread. More than one way to skin a cat and all that! ;)


Dexter

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Reply #4 on: September 16, 2021, 07:32:09 pm
I've put around 150 miles on the Meteor since tappet adjustment and it's running fine. My method described on another thread. More than one way to skin a cat and all that! ;)

Found a post where you mentioned doing the valves, but no description of your method there. ?
Past rides:
1966 Honda 65 Sport
1967 Honda CB160
1973 Honda CB750
1982 Honda V45 Magna - the most uncomfortable bike I ever did a cross country tour on!
1983 Honda CB1000
1995 Honda ST1100 - sold 2015 after 175,000 km
1996 Honda ST1100
Current ride:
2021 Royal Enfield Stellar Blue Meteor 350


GSS

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Reply #5 on: September 16, 2021, 09:35:00 pm
I just received confirmation from our outstanding Minneapolis dealer that 0.08 and 0.18 are the correct settings, so we should be good!

I’m going to leave mine at 0.07 and 0.16 as those are virtually at the right specs, and with a bit of effort I could actually squeeze in the 0.08 and 0.18 feeler gauges.

For reassembly I put a very tiny smear of high temp silicone in the deep notch on the cylinder head, but nothing elsewhere. No leaks.
2022 Continental GT 650 Dux Deluxe
2019 Himalayan Snow
2019 Interceptor 650 - Chrome...off the first boat!
Previous REs:
2021 Meteor 350 Supernova Blue
2014 Continental GT 535 - Red...lowest VIN off the first boat!
2010 Classic 500 - Teal Chrome


GSS

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Reply #6 on: September 17, 2021, 12:01:48 am
If anyone is looking for TDC based upon markings on the cam gear, then there is a protruding part with a vertical hole on the rear of the gear….pretty easy to see as it rolls into view with the crank being turned. This is where the 3rd leg of the special RE tool fits to lock the cam at TDC during valve adjustment. Thanks.
2022 Continental GT 650 Dux Deluxe
2019 Himalayan Snow
2019 Interceptor 650 - Chrome...off the first boat!
Previous REs:
2021 Meteor 350 Supernova Blue
2014 Continental GT 535 - Red...lowest VIN off the first boat!
2010 Classic 500 - Teal Chrome


Dexter

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Reply #7 on: September 18, 2021, 03:15:52 am
After a few more helpful tips from GSS via PM, I am happy to report that my Meteor has had its valves inspected, adjusted and buttoned up, with no leaks afterwards. I found the intake was perfect at 0.08 mm and the exhaust was slightly tight, so I set it to 0.178 mm, as that was the closest gauge I had to the spec.

My first attempts at checking the gaps were thrown off because I had been turning the crankshaft in the wrong direction, thinking it would be the same as my Honda, thus making the error of where TDC of the compression stroke really was. The crank needs to be turned counter clockwise. When the engine is at the proper position, you will note a small hole in the top of the cam drive sprocket, behind the chain.

This hole is there for the special tool that RE says you need to lock the crankshaft in position, but you don't really need that tool. As long as that hole is facing straight up, you are good to check the clearances. Nothing is going to move at that point.

The other tips provided by GSS in his report here made the job a lot easier in getting that valve cover out of the way. One thing I did though, in addition to moving those  items out of the way was to zip tie some of them, like the coil bracket, to the frame to completely get them up and out of the way. Once that was done, the cover came out and went back in relatively easily.

I also found that the gasket was RTV siliconed very well into its half moon pocket in the head and it took a lot of force to pry it out of there, but it survived OK. That black stuff they used seems very strong - too strong for the needed purpose. A bit of cleanup of the sealant was required on the gasket there, but not much evidence of any sealant was found on the rest of it. It peels off fairly easily. The days of gasket scraping are pretty much over, thanks to silicone based products.

I think it is necessary to get that gasket off the engine, because trying to reinstall it on the cover otherwise is an exercise in futility and certainly not worth the chance of getting it askew and having an oil leak after all is buttoned up again.

RTV is required on that half moon for reassembly though. There are four of those on my Honda and those that don't seal the moons invariably go back in to fix an oil leak. Apply RTV as seen from the factory.

I decided to ensure that the gasket wasn't going to fall out, as even with the obstructions mostly cleared, there is still not a lot of clearance to slip the cover back on and the gasket can be easily dislodged from its channel when trying to do so. I put a very thin, emphasis on "very", bead of RTV into the entire channel in the cover and it held the gasket mostly in place during installation. The bit that was knocked out was easily put back into place.

I used a blue RTV 100% silicone gasket sealer and I have also used that on the ST1100 for 26 years. It peels off very easily whenever the valve covers are removed, so cleaning it off on later inspections is quite easy. This brand was JB Weld, but I have used Permatex previously too.

Something else worth noting is the valve cover bolts. Like GSS, I had no torque specs to consult for any of the fasteners I removed for this job and the oil change, which I also did. After many years of wrenching, one learns to rely on "feel" with many fasteners, but critical ones, such as axle bolts, brake assemblies, etc. should have a torque wrench employed.

The valve cover bolts are shoulder bolts, meaning they can only go in so far and excessive force will snap them off, something I saw that happened to a poster on the 650 forum. Big headaches ensue! The valve cover bolts also sit on top of a compressible gasket, so once you feel the bolts bottom, that gasket has been compressed, preventing leaks. Snugging it up by hand, not gorilla hands mind you, is sufficient, should you not have the proper torque settings or a torque wrench on hand.

Those gaskets under the bolts should be good for re-use once, but I would replace them after two removals.

While I'm at it here, I'll just mention the Mickey Mouse method that RE uses for a simple oil change. A simple drain bolt and spin on filter would be nice, but no. RE makes you take off an oil strainer under the engine, which is a most messy affair, plus remove the filter from the side of the engine, which also leads to a big mess of oil streaming down the side of the engine. Almost as much time spent on cleaning up as actually replacing the filter(s) and oil.

I had bought the oil filter o- ring, but reused the original, as it appeared quite good too. Took two quarts of 15W-50 to bring it up to the line, after running the engine a bit. Re-checking once cooled is a good idea.
Past rides:
1966 Honda 65 Sport
1967 Honda CB160
1973 Honda CB750
1982 Honda V45 Magna - the most uncomfortable bike I ever did a cross country tour on!
1983 Honda CB1000
1995 Honda ST1100 - sold 2015 after 175,000 km
1996 Honda ST1100
Current ride:
2021 Royal Enfield Stellar Blue Meteor 350


20MarkIII

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Reply #8 on: September 21, 2021, 12:29:34 am
Found a post where you mentioned doing the valves, but no description of your method there. ?
Seat off, tank off, coil bracket unscrewed from frame, bolt removed from coil bracket that holds coil to bracket, 3 valve cover bolts removed, lifted the the valve cover off leaving the gasket in place on the head. Removed spark plug and inserted a #3 plastic artist's brush handle into the spark plug hole. Slowly turned the engine over CCW with 17 mm socket from the left side while holding the brush handle on the right side. Kind of like giving the frame a hug ;). Found TDC that way. It's a recommended method for finding TDC on a Moto Guzzi. I didn't see a marking on the cam chain sprocket but will look when doing it again. The adjustment was easy. Exhaust was ok, intake was a little tight although I was able to push the feeler gauge in. Went ahead and tweaked them both. Refitted the valve cover which does require some patience and a flashlight to make sure the gasket fits into the groove of the cover all the way around. Reassembled tank, fittings, seat etc.. Yes, the oil change is a mess compared to the INT. The oil pump strainer had no residue whatsoever, I did not open the drain plug toward the front of the engine but used the method shown on the Youtube RE tutorial. It took 1.9 liters to refill. I lubed the clutch cable with lithium grease aerosol and a cable oiler and lubed the throttle cable with Liquid Wrench brand chain and cable lube. Drive chain got a thorough cleaning with Dupont chain cleaner and a chain brush then lubed with Dupont chain wax. Chain adjustment was still spot on. Sorry for this novel!


Dexter

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Reply #9 on: September 21, 2021, 04:28:26 pm
Seat off, tank off, coil bracket unscrewed from frame, bolt removed from coil bracket that holds coil to bracket, 3 valve cover bolts removed, lifted the the valve cover off leaving the gasket in place on the head. Removed spark plug and inserted a #3 plastic artist's brush handle into the spark plug hole. Slowly turned the engine over CCW with 17 mm socket from the left side while holding the brush handle on the right side. Kind of like giving the frame a hug ;). Found TDC that way. It's a recommended method for finding TDC on a Moto Guzzi. I didn't see a marking on the cam chain sprocket but will look when doing it again. The adjustment was easy. Exhaust was ok, intake was a little tight although I was able to push the feeler gauge in. Went ahead and tweaked them both. Refitted the valve cover which does require some patience and a flashlight to make sure the gasket fits into the groove of the cover all the way around. Reassembled tank, fittings, seat etc.. Yes, the oil change is a mess compared to the INT. The oil pump strainer had no residue whatsoever, I did not open the drain plug toward the front of the engine but used the method shown on the Youtube RE tutorial. It took 1.9 liters to refill. I lubed the clutch cable with lithium grease aerosol and a cable oiler and lubed the throttle cable with Liquid Wrench brand chain and cable lube. Drive chain got a thorough cleaning with Dupont chain cleaner and a chain brush then lubed with Dupont chain wax. Chain adjustment was still spot on. Sorry for this novel!


It's all good. Thanks for the input.

I did not know about another drain plug on the engine and will have to look for that next time, as my strainer was spotless too and it seems like a wasted effort, with the concurrent mess, to drain the sump that way every time.
Past rides:
1966 Honda 65 Sport
1967 Honda CB160
1973 Honda CB750
1982 Honda V45 Magna - the most uncomfortable bike I ever did a cross country tour on!
1983 Honda CB1000
1995 Honda ST1100 - sold 2015 after 175,000 km
1996 Honda ST1100
Current ride:
2021 Royal Enfield Stellar Blue Meteor 350


20MarkIII

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Reply #10 on: September 28, 2021, 01:23:09 am

It's all good. Thanks for the input.

I did not know about another drain plug on the engine and will have to look for that next time, as my strainer was spotless too and it seems like a wasted effort, with the concurrent mess, to drain the sump that way every time.
Yeah, I didn't know about it either until the dealer showed me. I wasn't in a hurry so... I love the bar end mirrors Dexter after putting some more miles on the bike. I'm at 687 miles with a goal of completing the 1200 mile break-in before winter weather. Like the INT it just keeps gradually getting smoother and more responsive. So much fun on country roads. Hope you all are enjoying your Meteors.


Dexter

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Reply #11 on: September 28, 2021, 07:32:57 am
Yeah, I didn't know about it either until the dealer showed me. I wasn't in a hurry so... I love the bar end mirrors Dexter after putting some more miles on the bike. I'm at 687 miles with a goal of completing the 1200 mile break-in before winter weather. Like the INT it just keeps gradually getting smoother and more responsive. So much fun on country roads. Hope you all are enjoying your Meteors.

That drain bolt is not easy to see, if looking from under the right side, where the frame and exhaust pipe conspire to hide it. The bolt resides in the front right corner of the sump, requiring a 17mm socket and is better viewed and accessed from the left side.

It appears to have a copper crush washer on it too, which I believe is a common trait for RE oil drain bolts. You could reuse it many times, if you have a small torch to anneal it with, but I'll just be using an aluminum crush washer from the local auto parts store.

Thanks for the report on the mirrors. I'm still undecided about changing to anything else in that department yet. I am considering the black touring mirror that Hitchcock's has too.

I just ordered the touring seat for an added bit of bling and maybe a better lower back supporting feel, although, I don't find the stock seat uncomfortable after 3 - 4 hours on it.

Re the break in - I pretty much stuck to the prescribed limits for the first 300 miles, as the book says, but I have been opening it up more since. Up to 60 miles an hour in top gear already. I find the bike virtually leaps forward with every gear shift when wound up a bit through the gears. Quite impressive for a 350. I now have almost 500 miles on it. 1,200 miles seems excessive for a break in period to me.
Past rides:
1966 Honda 65 Sport
1967 Honda CB160
1973 Honda CB750
1982 Honda V45 Magna - the most uncomfortable bike I ever did a cross country tour on!
1983 Honda CB1000
1995 Honda ST1100 - sold 2015 after 175,000 km
1996 Honda ST1100
Current ride:
2021 Royal Enfield Stellar Blue Meteor 350


20MarkIII

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Reply #12 on: October 01, 2021, 07:10:05 am
I've never used bar end mirrors before but like them so much on the Meteor I'm considering a set, actually the same RE product, for the 650. The forward view is much less distracted and obstructed and of course very little of my shoulders and elbows show in the bar end units. A somewhat cleaner look to the bike as well. Waiting patiently for Hitchcock's rear luggage rack to become available now. Found a good looking one recently but the luggage area was rather too small. Even considering a small windscreen. Tired of bug splatters on my helmet shield constantly.
The seat is breaking in and is a bit more comfortable although I'm mostly using the gel/foam pad. Probably the smoothest shifting gearbox I've ever owned. Alot to like with the Meteor if you're not in a hurry!


Meteorite

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Reply #13 on: October 02, 2021, 04:23:35 pm
Does anyone happen to know what size hex wrench is necessary to remove the crank bolt access cover on the side of the engine?  Looks uncommonly big.  While I'm not yet at the point of a 1st service, I'm trying to make sure I'm prepared.  There always seems to be one more tool that you need to complete a job  ;)


Dexter

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Reply #14 on: October 02, 2021, 04:43:33 pm
That would be a 14mm Allan socket.
Past rides:
1966 Honda 65 Sport
1967 Honda CB160
1973 Honda CB750
1982 Honda V45 Magna - the most uncomfortable bike I ever did a cross country tour on!
1983 Honda CB1000
1995 Honda ST1100 - sold 2015 after 175,000 km
1996 Honda ST1100
Current ride:
2021 Royal Enfield Stellar Blue Meteor 350