[Jokor]

Hello everyone,

Yesterday on the highway the speedometer stopped working.
Back home I checked on both sides if there was something loose but everything seemed OK.

I screwed on both sides the cable loose to check the connections and on the speedometer side it looked like it was worn out (see photo right hand side).

Can anyone confirm this? Or is this normal?

Thanks, Jorn

[tooseevee]

Hello everyone,

Yesterday on the highway the speedometer stopped working.
Back home I checked on both sides if there was something loose but everything seemed OK.

I screwed on both sides the cable loose to check the connections and on the speedometer side it looked like it was worn out (see photo right hand side).

Can anyone confirm this? Or is this normal?

Thanks, Jorn

          If the end of the cable isn't square it can't work. It will just spin inside the square hole that it mates with.

[Bilgemaster]

Just to concur with and expand upon 'Tooseevee's' advice, that cable end does look mauled. Here is a selection of speedo cables, etc. from our Forum host's Online Parts Catalog offering various lengths to suit different models, most for about £25: https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/s.nl?ext=F&sc=1&category=&search=cable%20speedo. You would do well before ordering to closely examine the item's "Fitting Guide" and/or contact Hitchcocks for advice on the proper cable for your particular bike. There may be less expensive options available online, but getting the right one for the job of decent quality would be far less certain.

I should also mention that such damage to the cable end may have been caused by a malfunctioning (stuck or sticky) speedometer drive or speedometer. Hence, a close examination of both to insure their free operation would be highly advisable. Those plastic-cased OEM speedometer drives are particularly prone to jamming up, but in view of their low cost should just be replaced if found faulty--perhaps with a more robust metal-encased one.

There are also universal speedo cable "core repair" kits available that one can trim down to suit, but again, in view of the low cost, a new cable with a fresh outer casing would be preferable.

[Jokor]

          If the end of the cable isn't square it can't work. It will just spin inside the square hole that it mates with.

That was also what I though.
It seems to me that it's worn out on the speedomter side but before ordering a new one I just wanted to verify it.

I never seen a new one so..

[Jokor]

Hello everyone,

I replaced last weekend the old speedodrive for a new one and also replaced the speedometer cable for a new one.
Put everything back together and made a little test drive but the speedometer is still not working.. Thought it would be a easy job to switch the old one for the new one turned out something else. Have also to add that they replaced a couple of months ago the tyres at a garage, maybe somethings broken at that point, who knows..

When I tighten the speedodrive nut and front hub cover plate nut the spindle seems hard to turn by hand and in the manual they say the following about this:

If tightening the nuts makes the spindle hard to turn, the bearings are bottoming in the recesses in the hub barrel and the inner races are not resting on the shoulder of the spindle. In this case, the bearing should be removed and a thin packing shim should be fitted between the inner race and the
shoulder on the spindle..

Because English is not my mother language I don't know exactly what they mean with: "in the recesses in the hub barrel" and "the inner races"? Can anyone tell me in simplyfied English what they mean by this? Or point on the added picture the part they talk about?

Or is there anything else that can be the fault?

[ddavidv]

I'd wager the connection of the speedo drive at the wheel is the culprit.
I can't recall how these work on the Bullet, but it was VERY common on my old Kawasaki KLR for people to put them together wrong. On that one there were two tabs that stuck out of the drive which fit into slots in the wheel hub. They had to be lined up when putting them together or you could bend the tabs and nothing would work.

[Jokor]

On a Royal Enfield Bullet it’s the same thing (see attached photo). Maybe good to double check that indeed but that would be really messy from me.

[Jokor]

I'd wager the connection of the speedo drive at the wheel is the culprit.
I can't recall how these work on the Bullet, but it was VERY common on my old Kawasaki KLR for people to put them together wrong. On that one there were two tabs that stuck out of the drive which fit into slots in the wheel hub. They had to be lined up when putting them together or you could bend the tabs and nothing would work.

I just re-checked if the two tabs where lined up with the two slots and this was correct. Put the wheel back in the fork and mounted everything just as the way it was. Checked again the speedometer but it still doesn't work.. 

[Paul W]

Remove the cable from the speedo. Spin the wheel and see if the cable rotates. If it does, the problem is either the speedo itself, or the cable isn't properly engaging into it.

[Jokor]

Remove the cable from the speedo. Spin the wheel and see if the cable rotates. If it does, the problem is either the speedo itself, or the cable isn't properly engaging into it.

When I remove the cable from the speedo and rotate the wheel nothing happens. When I remove the cable from the wheel and put it back again in the speedometer take a screw machine and rotate the cable the speedometer works. So it’s still in the speedodrive. But what..

[Paul W]

I’ve seen a situation where the inner cable was slightly too short. This meant that some juggling was needed to get both ends to engage. Maybe this is the case here, too.

[Mr_84]

I'm guessing that the Speedo drive at the wheel has stripped the little worm gears in there , cheap enough to replace I believe you can also get a old style metal one from Hitchcocks too for a bit more $ .  plastic drive part number 144571, you can even get a repair kit for £6.50 and see the little worm gears in the picture part number 592630kit . Considering it was working then just stopped and everything else is looking ok I'm sure this is your problem

[hortoncode3]

I had a speedo failure on my '05 Bullet, odometer works, needle moves to the highest speed I'm driving and then gradually works it's way down as I bump down the road. Considering a Smiths replacement.

[Jokor]

Well firstly I wanted a metal speedodrive (SM/52283/6) because it looked nice. Ordered one and tried to fit it between the front fork but it didn't really fit the two slots. After this I ordered the plastic one (144571) and this fit immediatly.

But at this point I don't think it is the speedodrive nor the speedometer or speedocable.

1. I tried the screw machine method to see if the speedometer / cable was working and it did.
2. Then I put the bike on central stand with the front wheel from the ground to see if I turned the wheel if the cable was turning but it didn't.

Maybe someone has some experience with other things that might be the problem?

[Mr_84]

With to the cable removed from the Speedo drive and spining the wheel can you look in and see the square drive for the cable turning?

[Jokor]

With to the cable removed from the Speedo drive and spining the wheel can you look in and see the square drive for the cable turning?

When I try this the square drive is not turning.

[Mr_84]

Ok looks like your problem is there, try taking the wheel off remove the lock nut that holds the Speedo drive on , checking the location of the two little pins lugs , now just rotating the Speedo drive by hand without the lock nut on is the square drive turning? Note it will turn very slowly without spining the wheel so look carefully

[Jokor]

Ok looks like your problem is there, try taking the wheel off remove the lock nut that holds the Speedo drive on , checking the location of the two little pins lugs , now just rotating the Speedo drive by hand without the lock nut on is the square drive turning? Note it will turn very slowly without spining the wheel so look carefully

When I take off the wheel and rotate the speedo drive by hand the square is turning. If I mount it back again on the wheel with the little pins positioned like you mentioned nothing happens when I rotate the axle.

Also added a picture from the inside. To me it looks good and the same as on the image in the manual.

[Adrian II]

Are the pins actually engaging with the lots, or is that large flat washer pushing the spacer and therefore the drive out too far for that to happen?

A.

[Jokor]

Are the pins actually engaging with the lots, or is that large flat washer pushing the spacer and therefore the drive out too far for that to happen?

A.

To me it seemed this morning that the two pins engage into the two lots but you can’t look into it when the speedo drive is fit onto it. What could push the flat washer outwards? The old thick Front hub felt retainer? (nr 10 on added picture).

Gr Jorn

[Mr_84]

Very interesting, hard to tell what is happening from here, try removing some of the spacers to see if that helps with the pins fitting deeper into the slots, don't run the wheel like this on your bike this is just for diagnosis purposes to help create a better understanding of what's happening

[Seipgam]

I would think for one reason or another its not going on deep enough to engage the pins with what you have explained earlier.
Measure the internal depth of the drive compared to the width of the hub pieces that go inside to confirm.
Then yes, take a couple of bits off to get it on deep enough to confirm what's going on.
If this works then the plastic drive is not correct for purpose.
As others have said, removing hub parts is only for diagnostic purposes.

Geoff.

[Jokor]

Well finally last weekend I got some time / motivation to start working again on the speedo hub drive to analyse some stuff.

It seems that indeed the two pins don't get into the two slots all the way, and that's why the speedometer is still not working.

1. I took out the retainer and tried if the speedodrive was working, no result.
2. I took out the felt washer + retainer, no result.
3. I turned the collar, also no result.

When I put everything together back together it looks like on img_8888. With this picture I contacted H" and they told me that the collar has to lower a 3 to 4mm so the speedodrive can get all the way into the two slots. But how can I lower this?

Is it the bearing inside maybe?

J

[mrunderhill1975a]

There must be something blocking the collar from seating properly,(bearing not seated, or too thick bearing?). See if you can get the collar out and see what is blocking.

[Jokor]

There must be something blocking the collar from seating properly,(bearing not seated, or too thick bearing?). See if you can get the collar out and see what is blocking.

Well I checked it again this evening:

- I took out the retainer (on the image nr 7 with the yellow square around it)
- Replaced everything back in the right order
- Walked with the wheel
- Square from speedo hub drive turns 

- Replace retainer nr 7
- Replace everything again back in the right order
- Walk with wheel
- Square in speedo hub drive doesn't turn 

So it is something with the retainer (I do not really know what but ok)
Or something is wrong with the bearing but I never really worked on it before (so that’s also a bit of a mystery).

[mrunderhill1975a]

I'm wondering if the bearing is seated all the way home? Is there something behind the bearing preventing it from seating properly? Your next step may be to pull the axle, then tap the bearing out and see what is behind it.

[cyrusb]

Whatever the cause it happened while you were riding. The riding must have changed the stack height. It must have been assembled incorrectly by the P.O. What else could it be?

[Jokor]

I had contact with H" about the measurement from the outer race of the bearing to the edge of the hub. They measured a couple of wheels and it should be somewhere in between 12,6-13,1mm. I measured mine and it is 10,5mm so the bearing is indeed not seated all the way home. How, I have no idea.

I was thinking to get a hollow drift tool that has the size of the outer race of the bearing, and give it a try by knocking carefully on the outer race of the bearing. Maybe it is just enough to get me the 2mm. Otherwise I have to dismantle everything to see what's behind the bearing / on the spindle shoulder.

[Jokor]

I'm wondering if the bearing is seated all the way home? Is there something behind the bearing preventing it from seating properly? Your next step may be to pull the axle, then tap the bearing out and see what is behind it.

Last weekend I pulled the axle and two bearings out. There was nothing behind it, damaged or whatever, the bearing somehow moved 1/2mm when I was driving it. Put some loctite around it and put everything properly back together. For now and hopefully for a long time it will stay where it should stay!

Finally my speedometer works again and I learned some new things about my Enfield 

[tooseevee]

I was thinking to get a hollow drift tool that has the size of the outer race of the bearing, and give it a try by knocking carefully on the outer race of the bearing. Maybe it is just enough to get me the 2mm. Otherwise I have to dismantle everything to see what's behind the bearing / on the spindle shoulder.

           Go to AutoZone (or equivalent) & pick up a socket of the right diameter. You'll have a bearing pounder AND a socket you may need some day.

           OR a hardware store for a PVC fitting (like a close nipple) of the right diameter.

[AzCal Retred]

The front wheel bearings of my ES350 were the same way, with the same effect on the speedo drive. 5 minutes, a small hammer and a large flat blade screwdriver cured all. Work your way around it carefully, been done for years that way. The hub rings unmistakably when the bearing is "home". Everything stays put once the "cone nuts" are screwed in tight. NOT as nice or as smart as 2CVs socket method, and the consequences of a mis-stroke are likely a new bearing. But new bearings are a good thing, eh?
"Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without." anon