[Arschloch]

Some 10 years ago i paid to the swedish "authorities" about 200$ for exceeding the speed limit of 100km by 5kmh.

The autonomous BEV is just a tiny step away to make a break through in that country. All they need to do is to upgrade the traffic monitoring systems with the latest tech.

[AzCal Retred]

Looks like the still unavailable Tesla Semi has to carry around about 15,000 pounds of batteries (1 MWHr) to Git 'r Dun.
The still absent Megacharger, as per the electrek article, would supposedly deliver 400 miles of range in 30 minutes. This is interesting.That is about 0.8 MW in 30 minutes, or a sustained rate of 1.6 MWHr. On the 13,800V local distribution side that's only about 116 amps 1 phase or 70 amps 3 phase. The lowside gets grimmer. 1.6 MW of DC at even 480V is 3300 amps, obviously less at higher voltages but I haven't seen any specs on the new vehicles battery operating voltage. That's a lot of unforgiving DC amps, or even possibly AC amps, for a random truck driver to connect up with absolutely reliably everytime.   Then there is the interesting question of intermittent grid loads of 1.6 MW for the Utility, as from their perspective 200-400 homes just appeared on their distribution grid. In large City Commercial distribution systems will likely be OK, Rural one not so much. Now we're talking infrastructure changes again, just like for H2, unless the Tesla Semis are just used short haul.

The Extremetech article also illustrates that it takes about 600 pounds of fuel to drive a conventional rig 500 miles, the maximum Tesla Semi range. {15,000/600= 25:1}  A standard 80,000 load becomes an additional 15,000 pounds, or 95,000 more for the Tesla.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/259195-tesla-semi-500-mile-range-cheaper-diesel-quick-charge
Based on vehicle battery packs in use now, we know lithium-ion battery packs of at least 50 kWh weigh about 15 pounds per 1 kilowatt-hour of stored energy. So if the Tesla Semi uses 1.5 kWh per mile and travels 500 miles, that means the battery is 750 kWh and weighs 11,250 pounds. If consumption is closer to 2.0 kWh per mile, the battery at is as much as 1,000 kWh — 1 megawatt-hour — and 15,000 pounds.
Maybe Tesla will find some economies of scale, but the weight of the Tesla Semi is going to include at least five tons of lithium-ion batteries. In comparison, a 6 mpg diesel tractor-trailer would use about 600 pounds of fuel on a 500-mile trip. Long-haul tractors carry enough fuel to go at least 1,000 miles, or two-plus days of driving, with 250-gallon fuel tanks (1,700 pounds)./font]

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-electric-semi-truck-delayed-again-2022-now-2021-7

https://electrek.co/2021/10/12/tesla-deploying-first-megacharger-charge-tesla-semi-electric-truck/

The YouTube reference was a riot, as the presenter never mentions where the H2 bus order that was cancelled happened, you are just expected to accept at face value the presenters statements. Sound familiar? Anyway it was in France.
 https://cleantechnica.com/2022/01/11/french-city-cancels-hydrogen-bus-contract-opts-for-electric-buses/Now, La Tribune says new city president Michaël Delafosse has decided to discontinue the project as the financial calculations underlying the proposed joint venture have not turned out as expected. Specifically, the city calculates it would cost them 95 cents per kilometer for the hydrogen fueled buses versus 15 cents per kilometer for battery-powered buses. In addition, the cost of the fuel cell-powered buses was between €150,000 and €200,000 more than the cost of battery-powered buses.

Derottones comment "The cost per se isn't a issue if you have customers to pass it on" is on point here.
( 15 cents / 30 passengers = 0.5 cents per km) (95/30= 3.2 cents per passenger per km)
A ticket is 2 Euro. A Carnet allows 10 tickets for 15 Euro, a 5 day pass is about 38 Euro. It's unlikely you'd travel over 50 km per day around the city, so the maximum "cost" to the city is likely under (250 x 5 cents = 12.5 Euro) even for the H2 wondermachine, still lots of margin, especially if you are trying to "decarbonize" the energy supply. The real argument here is the upfront cost of the hardware, which I have seen over 60+ years is normally the real driver for most decision makers. And it's also the driver for the H2 car stagnation. A $60K Mirai weighs about 4,000 pounds and travels about 300 miles on a full fuel load and has  extremely limited fuel access. A $30K Nissan  Leaf weighs about 4000 pounds and travels maybe 200 miles on a full charge. A $60K Tesla Y weighs about 4500 pounds and has a theoretical range of 300 miles but a practical one of about 220. Guess which is the best seller? Who would have suspected that people will tend to buy the cheapest example of an item they can find? Walmart? Harbor Freight?
https://www.auto123.com/en/news/best-selling-electric-cars-world-nissan-leaf-tesla-model-s/65617/
Since each model has been in production, Nissan has sold 363,940 units of the LEAF, while Tesla has moved 243,200 units of its Model S. This is particularly impressive when you consider the price difference between the two models. Yes, the Tesla targets a different audience, but it’s remarkable nonetheless.
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-y

[AzCal Retred]

@ #435: Even here the authorities can issue tickets for violating the speed cameras. The new EVs are a lot more connected, should be simplicity itself to fully automate the traffic ticket system for them. I wonder if the new self-driving Tesla self reports if you put it on the "aggressive" driving setting?

[viczena]

The Tesla Semi is exactly 2 tons heavier than the Diesel counterparts. That is allowed by legislation. In the EU a BEV truck may weight 2 tons more than an ICE truck. And over 95% of all truck transports are not limited by maximum weight, but by size.

Several megachargers are already installed and running. Rumors say, that the comming Cybertruck can also use them. The first 15 Semis are delivered to Pepsi in January.

Meanwhile the Tesla Y outsold the Nissan Leaf by far. Comparing the Leaf to the Model S is BS.
Even colouring your infos does not make your completly outdated infos correct.

[AzCal Retred]

Any links to your information? It's good to be able to look at the same info. But colouring in the infos make them easier to recognise as quotes, yes?

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/how-much-does-a-semi-truck-weigh#:~:text=The%20unladen%20weight%20of%20a,weight%20of%20about%2035%2C000%20pounds.
The GVWR includes the weight of the truck, cargo, fuel, passengers, and anything else on board or attached to the vehicle. Under US federal law, the maximum laden weight for semis is 80,000 pounds. Some heavier-duty trucks may have a higher GVWR for safety, but it remains illegal to load them past 80,000 pounds.
The unladen weight of a semi-tractor can vary between 10,000 and 25,000 pounds, depending on how powerful the engine is, how much it’s designed to tow, and whether or not it’s a sleeper cab. An unladen 53-foot trailer weighs about 10,000 pounds, accounting for a total unladen weight of about 35,000 pounds.

https://electrek.co/2021/08/13/tesla-semi-electric-truck-weight-on-point-crucial/

https://insideevs.com/news/525765/tesla-semi-payload-comparable-diesel/
As for the battery tech, many analysts and experts estimated in 2017 that Tesla would need a 600 kWh to 1,000 kWh battery pack to produce the Semi’s 300-mile (483-km) and 500-mile (805-km) variants. Since a 600 kWh pack weighs about 8,000 pounds (3,629 kg), it would eat into payload as Class 8 trucks have a total weight capacity limit of 80,000 pounds (36,287 kg).
However, Tesla argues it has made notable advancements in battery tech since the Semi’s unveiling, including the introduction of the 4680 battery cells. Since these cells are lighter but have a higher energy density, they could reduce the Semi’s weight, therefore making higher payloads possible.

[viczena]

Google it yourself. And dont use links older than 6 weeks. Citing links from 2019 is awkward.

And read the whole information. The french busses themselves (for example) were heavily subsidized by the government and the EU, so they would get it for a very good price. That was the main reason why they did not calculate the running costs in the first place.

[viczena]

"As for the battery tech, many analysts and experts estimated in 2017..." . What shitty infos do want to present next? In blue, of course.

It seems that blue means: Beware, this is shit.

[AzCal Retred]

As long as they are using natgas sourced power for battery charging, decarbonization isn't in the picture, which is one big reason to go EV. Here's what Holland, that like Germany also doesn't have much of a Texas, are doing to try to maximize their independence from Gazprom & Russia. A platform mounted electrolyzer will allow blending & storage for later use of otherwise lost wind energy into the natgas stream heading shoreward.

https://www.neptuneenergy.com/esg/new-energy/poshydon-hydrogen-pilot

[AzCal Retred]

@ 441: Really? Battery tech is vastly better in 5 years?

[viczena]

You are right. Nothing happened in battery technology in the last 5 years. Sleep on. Its getting obvious that you know next to nothing about the things you write.

[AzCal Retred]

Any numbers? Any objective verification? Like this article showing 100% from 1990's to 2010, then maybe 50% from 2010 to 2022?

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years-away-no-batteries-are-improving-under-your-nose/
So where’s the proof that all this has been going on behind the scenes? If you look, the data bears out a number of trends. Energy density has a prominent trend. The original commercial lithium-ion battery, produced by Sony in the early 1990s, had an energy density of under 100 watt-hours per kilogram. That number has climbed over time, with the familiar cylindrical 18650 cells on the market hitting 200 watt-hours per kilogram by 2010. According to BloombergNEF, batteries used in electric vehicles have gotten as high as 300 watt-hours per kilogram in the last couple of years.

[viczena]

First find in google: https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/22/everything-you-need-to-know-about-teslas-new-4680-battery-cell/

The PosHydon pilot: It costs around 10Mill Euros, the Netherland pays 3.6 Mill out of it. It will produce 400kg/day max. That is the worth/cost  of 2000 Euros per day. If it would be clean H2. But it gets mixed into the natural gas they are pumping out of the North sea. So they just add 400kg of burnable gas for household each day. So the value is decreased to 480 Euros, while the cost of producing keeps at 2000 Euros. Great achievement. 1500 Euros lost every day. And this pilot is not even running. All this could cost much more in the end.

[Arschloch]

All those fine automotive companies you mentioned though are building ridiculous battery factories at the expense of the taxpayer and the folks that keep the bussiness afloat. How just is that, why not giving the H2 men their way too. 

Did you see how much a normal stinker cost from any of those conglomerates?

[viczena]

Tesla rejected to get subsidies for their battery manufacturing. 1 Billion Dollar. The only other automobile manufacturer who is building its own Batteries is BYD. China.

[Arschloch]

Tesla rejected to get subsidies for their battery manufacturing. 1 Billion Dollar. The only other automobile manufacturer who is building its own Batteries is BYD. China.

https://www.di.se/live/scania-miljardinvesterar-i-batterifabrik-i-sodertalje/

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/12/29/first-li-ion-battery-rolls-off-northvolts-swedish-production-line/

...all they can do is sink cash in the ground, everything else would be corrupt.