[axman88]

Are you ready for the Pocket Rocket? Just don't expect to go very far or very fast on your Rocket.
https://thepack.news/pocket-rocket-from-sol-motors-is-now-ready-for-pre-orders/

Finally something has come along to compete with the styling of the CAKE machines!
https://ridecake.com/en/

And priced competitively also, at just under $7000 with today's exchange rates, vs $7500 for the Cake Ossa Lite.  The Ossa does have the desirable mid motor configuration though.

I still favor the $5000, Sondors Metacycle.   Despite the fact that they have announced delivery delays, I think it is the superior vehicle, with superior specs.
https://www.rideapart.com/news/533903/sondors-metacycle-delay-q4-2021/
https://electrek.co/2021/08/22/5000-sondors-metacycle-electric-motorcycle-in-durability-testing-ahead-of-deliveries/

Sondors has had a proven track record of delivering value priced E-bikes from their crowd funded origins.

And then, there is the styling.  On the Sondors, I wouldn't feel quite so much like I need to be wearing a costume.  Inspector Gadget, perhaps?

[Nitrowing]

Ugly. Ugly. Ugly.
Whilst 111ft/lbs of torque would be great fun, staring at any of these bikes would break my heart.

[Richard230]

Well, it does look more like a mobile pipe bomb than a rocket. 

[Arschloch]

The Sondors doesn't look all that bad. I wouldn't go for a bike with a hub motor however ever, although it might be ok on a nice new tarmac road without potholes. Sure on such perfect roads maybe suspension may not be needed at all.

[AzCal Retred]

I'm thinking at 35 - 45 MPH the hub motors unsprung weight isn't a real big issue. The elimination of extra moving bits is a plus for 95% of the potential users.

For my money, a 3 or 4 wheel, preferably somewhat weather enclosed transport pod would be more useful. And then there's this:
https://www.swincar.net/details-swincar+tilting+4-wheel-drive+spider+car+makes+light+work+of+bizarre+terrain-44.html

[Arschloch]

I'm thinking at 35 - 45 MPH the hub motors unsprung weight isn't a real big issue. The elimination of extra moving bits is a plus for 95% of the potential users.

For my money, a 3 or 4 wheel, preferably somewhat weather enclosed transport pod would be more useful. And then there's this:
https://www.swincar.net/details-swincar+tilting+4-wheel-drive+spider+car+makes+light+work+of+bizarre+terrain-44.html

It's probably not an issue when it comes to riding dynamics, if you hit a pothole though even at 45mph it's going to be hard on the spokes in the wheel and the wheel bearing. But than maybe the thing is not supposed to last very long anyway.

From a manufacturer perspective the best bike might be that one that goes to the yard directly from the factory and the customer is happy about it and purchases the next one anyway.

[AzCal Retred]

So were the rigid "hardtails" of the 30's & 40's cursed with constantly collapsing wheels? I think a firm jolt up the spine a time or two made for a much more observant rider.

[Arschloch]

So were the rigid "hardtails" of the 30's & 40's cursed with constantly collapsing wheels? I think a firm jolt up the spine a time or two made for a much more observant rider.

Haven't been around, so can't say for sure, however if they had wheels similar to my GT than you would definitely need to replace a spoke or two most probably after every ride.

The riding ergonomics might have been an interesting feature though.

[Richard230]

So were the rigid "hardtails" of the 30's & 40's cursed with constantly collapsing wheels? I think a firm jolt up the spine a time or two made for a much more observant rider.

One of the bikes that I owned a long time ago was a 1958 Allstate 125. It had a hardtail rear end and was no fun to ride compared with motorcycles with rear suspensions that went up and down when riding over road potholes.   

[AzCal Retred]

https://www.v-twinforum.com/threads/hard-tail-bikes-are-they-safe.185960/
From "Norster":
I've seen the dance of the rear wheel of shock equipped bikes in turns and rough roads.
I've also seen the sure footed rigid frame hardtails go thru with little or no loss of traction by comparison.
The rider determines safety or casualty/IMWIO

Riding a hardtail is like riding a horse.
->You raise up on the stirrups...
->You raise up on the pegs...
Let your legs absorb the shock and maintain control.
(yes, I have ridden horses. IMHO they need a "kill switch" more than bikes do)

All it takes is someone awake & aware riding.

Look at the seat & footpegs/controls.
Is the rider gonna go thru bumps like s/he expects smooth road?
or
Is the rider able to respond to rough road and even gravel?

My choppers had the best seats I could find and even they were spring mounted.
But I always had mid mount footpegs for the rough stuff.

I'm sure hardtail riders didn't change spokes daily. These machines were their daily transport and were as durable as necessary. Trials riders persevered on hardtails for years after road bikes adopted rear suspension. They are obviously a rougher ride, but appropriate rear tire pressures and enlightened self interest will minimize damage. Pounding a machine hard enough to snap spokes would be hard on the rider as well. Spoked wheels also are inherently good at absorbing shock loads when properly tensioned. Breaking a few spokes on a particular machine doesn't correlate to generalizing on an entire category of motorcycles that persisted for many years.

[Arschloch]

The greentards should definitely get one.

[AzCal Retred]

Der Ottonen B is back!!

[axman88]

It's probably not an issue when it comes to riding dynamics, if you hit a pothole though even at 45mph it's going to be hard on the spokes in the wheel and the wheel bearing.

I would observe that although a hub motor is certainly likely to be heavier than any alternate drive scheme, it does eliminate the mass of the sprocket, its mounting, and 1/2 the mass of the chain from the unsprung rear axle.  For a drive shaft bike, the rear gearing and 1/2 the weight of the drive shaft would be eliminated.  I think it's probably that belt drives win the least rear axle mass contest.

As AzCal Rtd pointed out, using a hub motor reduces overall weight of the vehicle by eliminating duplication of a hub structure in the separate motor.

From my perspective, the biggest negative of the hub motor is the fact that the motor can't benefit from torque multiplication in the drive train.  Torque is limited by diameter, magnet strength and current limits.  There are available hub motors with internal planetary gear systems that allow the motor's rotor to spin much faster than the wheel, and I suspect that the motors on these E-motos are constructed in that way.  When they develop multiple ratio, internally geared hub motors, I think we'll see more manufacturers move in the direction of hub motors.

[AzCal Retred]

So when is the NuVinci Hub Motor coming out? They already have the first half of your design package in production. I've ridden on, it's pretty slick.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_Continuously_Variable_Transmission

[AzCal Retred]

NuVinci on a Raleigh e-bike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVoTj3tfmWA
This motor drives the crankset, like you were pedaling, so an easy application, like the next:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYiXwhjlSMc

Obviously good for low power application, can't say how it would hold up at 3-5 HP without a major rework. Still a cool idea.