Author Topic: E-Bike developments  (Read 105228 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Nitrowing

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 384
  • Karma: 0
Reply #150 on: July 12, 2021, 07:40:04 am
Don't you worry, people are already doing that:


That looks much better than this one
No wonder we no longer have a motor industry


Richard230

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,021
  • Karma: 0
Reply #151 on: July 12, 2021, 02:47:30 pm
There is something about the design of that battery enclosure of that Photon that creeps me out.  :o
2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


axman88

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Karma: 1
  • Vintage Motorcycle Fan
Reply #152 on: July 12, 2021, 04:22:07 pm
There is something about the design of that battery enclosure of that Photon that creeps me out.  :o
It does kind of look like it was influenced by the work of H.R. Giger.  I think it's the ribs?
https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-nightmarish-works-hr-giger-artist-alien

Perhaps more effective than flat black and chrome skulls, in demonstrating how badass one is?


zimmemr

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,823
  • Karma: 0
Reply #153 on: July 12, 2021, 04:42:02 pm
It does kind of look like it was influenced by the work of H.R. Giger.  I think it's the ribs?
https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-nightmarish-works-hr-giger-artist-alien

Perhaps more effective than flat black and chrome skulls, in demonstrating how badass one is?

There was something creepy about it that I couldn't put my finger on, but you nailed it. It's what Alien would ride, or maybe what Ripley would use to chase him down. ;D


axman88

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Karma: 1
  • Vintage Motorcycle Fan
Reply #154 on: July 12, 2021, 05:00:51 pm
Wow! That's a big price difference!
Mid-motor is what the E-bicycle industry is calling a motor located adjacent to the crank.  This setup is what we see on most E-motos, except for the lowest priced, and has the benefit of operating through the machine's gearing at the rear hub.  Mid motors include overrunning clutches operating both directions, if you pedal you don't drive the motor, and the motor can drive the sprocket without driving the rider's pedal crank.  Mid motors are also quite a bit more expensive, starting around $400, from what I've found.

Hub motors can be had for considerably less, like the one in the kit I mentioned.  Hub motors have the disadvantage of being forced to operate at the speed of the driven wheel, which considerably limits power output at low rpms, like when hill climbing.

There is a 3rd configuration, which incorporates planetary gearing into the hub motor, so the motor runs at a fixed ratio to, but higher rpm than, the wheel.  These are a decent compromise of cost vs. power output in my opinion.  I've found geared hub motors available for as little as $120, bare, without the rest of the required kit.

All varieties use 3 phase controllers to chop the DC into pulses driving 3 sets of coils.  The very best of these create shaped signals, which increases efficiency and reduces noise and heat.  Run of the mill controllers output square wave shaped pulses.


GlennF

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,661
  • Karma: 0
Reply #155 on: July 13, 2021, 07:23:57 am
You guys clearly missed the motorcycle scene in the movie where the alien does the whole Tom Cruise motor cycle/Top Gun thing ...




zimmemr

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,823
  • Karma: 0
Reply #156 on: July 13, 2021, 12:51:46 pm
You guys clearly missed the motorcycle scene in the movie where the alien does the whole Tom Cruise motor cycle/Top Gun thing ...




 ;D ;D ;D ;D


Richard230

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,021
  • Karma: 0
Reply #157 on: July 13, 2021, 02:47:24 pm
Motorcycle.com has just reviewed Zero's revised 2022 FXE electric motorcycle. (Their cheapest and lightest model - and some people say the most fun to ride.) I think they did a nice job with the BNG and styling compared with the previous years' versions: https://www.motorcycle.com/features/2022-zero-fxe-review-first-ride.html
2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


Richard230

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,021
  • Karma: 0
Reply #158 on: July 14, 2021, 03:19:08 pm
Long Way Home has a few funny words to say about BMW's new CE 04 electric scooter, including that they will no longer be building gas-powered scooters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jenhOJaea98
2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


Arschloch

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,757
  • Karma: 0
  • ...all is lost
Reply #159 on: July 14, 2021, 03:28:06 pm
BMW did not succeed on the gas powered scooter market in the past and won't likely in the future. Too much premium think in that company. Scooter customers want an affordable transportation in the first place not an "expensive" hobby which motorcycling is turning into, what a great success of our legislators.


Arschloch

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,757
  • Karma: 0
  • ...all is lost
Reply #160 on: July 14, 2021, 05:45:18 pm
I'm little bit war-footed towards the general idea of premium. A rolex submariner is premium not because it's got an incredible amount of functionality but because it's brand heritage, small amount of quality components and is a relatively precise tool to measure time although it will not stand thr competition with a quartz watch ever. Sometimes the "no date" versions of it are considered even more premium. Why can't it be with motorcycles little bit similar.  :o



axman88

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Karma: 1
  • Vintage Motorcycle Fan
Reply #161 on: July 14, 2021, 06:00:02 pm
The more I read about Storm Sondors and the company he started just a few years ago, the more impressed I am with their products, and their business model.  This is one instance where a company has turned modest kickstart capital into real value for their customers.   Their bikes are competitively priced, constantly being improved, attractively styled, and get good reviews from their customers and industry reviewers.  Of greatest interest to me, their products offer innovative engineering.

Have a look at the CAST aluminum frame that will be used on the upcoming Sondors Metacycle:  https://electrek.co/2021/06/23/closer-look-a-single-piece-of-aluminum-makes-up-sondors-metacycle-electric-motorcycle-frame/

If you are interested, I started a thread on the Sondors Metacycle, which is now just a few months from being in customers hands.   https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=30235.0 

The one compromise that I'm not crazy about, ... this machine uses a hub motor.   In theory the hub motor saves a bit of weight by eliminating redundant structure, but I suspect this was done more to achieve the price point, than for any engineering reason.  It does keep the overall CG nice and low.  The battery can live in the lowest part of the frame.


AzCal Retred

  • Chennai Wrencher
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,152
  • Karma: 0
  • a journey of a thousand li starts under one's feet
Reply #162 on: July 14, 2021, 06:27:25 pm
Nice website -
https://sondorsx.com/pages/metacycle

The "chat" responder says the hub motor offers regenerative braking/charging, so that is a plus for the hilly terrain crowd. A small trailer with a Honda EU2000 generator and 5 gallons of gas would take you camping or on a several days outing. A 200W PV panel with maybe a 300W inverter wouldn't hurt and would fit on a small trailer too. No word yet on the "pony" battery cost, but possibly in the neighborhood of $1000?
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


axman88

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,872
  • Karma: 1
  • Vintage Motorcycle Fan
Reply #163 on: July 14, 2021, 07:37:55 pm
A small trailer with a Honda EU2000 generator and 5 gallons of gas would take you camping or on a several days outing. A 200W PV panel with maybe a 300W inverter wouldn't hurt and would fit on a small trailer too.
My buddy camps like that.   His F-150 is so packed out, that he has to tie stuff on top of the tonneau cover, he was telling me last night that he just added a house battery system, with dedicated inverter and automatic charging relay.  His camping stuff is in dedicated tupperware bins, ready to go camping at a moments notice.  I've looked into these on occasion, there's stuff in there that looks like it hasn't been pulled out since Carter was president.

I'm on the other end of the spectrum.  I'd be more likely to carry a 30 foot extension cord, camp on the spot right next to the stinky bathhouse, and run my extension cord through the bathroom window at night for my next days charge.

No word yet on the "pony" battery cost, but possibly in the neighborhood of $1000?
Sondors makes a nice, removable "triangle" pack for some of their E-bicycles, so I'm sure they will come up with a nicely designed and engineered package, eventually.  The Metacycle is a 72volt system.  Right now, $1000 would buy you about 6.5 Kw hours of these generic, 36V 30 Ah batteries,  https://www.ebay.com/itm/393182339879,   which is 150% of the capacity the machine comes with.

Personally, I'd be disinclined to shell out for that add-on, the 80 miles of claimed stock range is a week and a halves worth of riding for me.    I ride almost everyday, but I ride more than 100 miles in one day only once every 3 years.  I think there are a LOT more folks like me, than there are Iron Butt riders, they just don't join forums to talk about what they use to get to work and the grocery store.  It would be like joining a forum to talk about your stove or your clock-radio.

This little scoot is no touring machine.  In my view, no E-vehicle is, .... yet.  Even if they never are, they can still manage probably 80%+ of the world's transportation needs.  And with increasing urbanization, that number goes up, every day.


Richard230

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,021
  • Karma: 0
Reply #164 on: July 15, 2021, 10:22:03 pm
You think gas prices are high? Check out the kWh prices on this charging station somewhere in Scotland. Two pounds per kWh for the first 3 hours and then 10 pounds per kWh after three hours. :o  I thought I had high electric power costs at home at 26 cents per kWh.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 10:25:16 pm by Richard230 »
2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1