Author Topic: Pre-War Curious: Newbie Questions  (Read 1119 times)

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nonfiction

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on: April 22, 2021, 09:08:28 pm
I have a good buddy, a lifelong bike guy who's only ever owned Japanese motorcycles (plenty of them!). He has decided he would someday like to have a pre-war British motorbike, of the sort regular people would ride, not your T.E. Lawrences.

He can't spend crazy money (probably gonna top out around $5-8k), and really only knows the profile he wants: Slopy tank, sprung saddle, sweepy bars, big head lamp, hardtail frame, long fenders. Small-middle displacement 250-350ish just fine, though a 500cc wouldn't get snubbed.

Are there any likely Royal Enfield models present in the US in numbers enough that they'd be likely targets, and if so, what should he be looking for?


axman88

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Reply #1 on: April 22, 2021, 10:48:16 pm
I'm no expert, but my impression is that REs are scarce in the US prior to the years they were rebadged and sold as Indians in the mid 50s.  Even then, they were much less plentiful than BSAs and Triumphs.

I have been thinking along lines similar to your friend, the old machines are very attractive.  When I have more leisure time in retirement, I may try to collect a few.  But I was thinking it might be more economical to travel abroad on a hunting expedition where the machines are more plentiful, and ship them back.  It's not that expensive:  https://www.autoshippers.co.uk/motorbike-shipping.htm

If one can manage to fill a container, that would be even more economical.  Harleys and Chris Craft eastbound, Sunbeams and Citroens west.


nonfiction

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Reply #2 on: April 23, 2021, 01:13:17 am
AxMan I've been thinking along similar lines. This buddy and I have talked for years about a flatbed tour through the west and midwest, gathering interesting old stuff to send back home.

I have suspected what you say about RE scarcity stateside to be true also, like I know jack.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #3 on: April 23, 2021, 03:04:43 am
The smart money is to get a Pre-Unit Bullet and bolt on a Hitchcocks Hardtail kit. That way you'd end up with something rideable and still have a farm left to mortgage later.
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/19209?ref_page=Bullet%20Export%20500cc
PART No. 99150 ; RIGID REAR FRAME WITH FIXINGS ; £540.00
A substantial rear section specifically developed for the Indian Bullet frame made from cold drawn seamless tubing. This is complete with the top fixing clamp arrangement and full instructions. Supplied un-painted. Made in the UK.
With 1/2 width hubs and a nice Indian-sourced fuel tank, It'd really look the part. The motor would be able to keep up with modern traffic.

Blue Moon Cycles, Norcross, Georgia usually has a nice selection. The substantial prices exist because it takes a LOT of dinero to make them look like they do when starting with a barn find.
https://www.bluemooncycle.com/motorcycles-for-sale/

The reason that the Bullet is an affordable, rideable machine is because Allan Hitchcock created an accessible parts supply. Otherwise you are playing the NOS game looking for non-fermented hardware remnants made in 1937. If the idea is to acquire a machinist friend and put his kid thru college, restoring a barn-find is a good start. The geniuses like Grumbern are busy building their own ideas from scratch, and they are a rare commodity anyway.

Taking your hand-built, fully restored BSA 350 sidevalve out into traffic isn't much fun when you twig to the fact that one trip into a ditch takes about $10K right off the top. If you are dealing with Jay Leno resources & money, none of this an issue. For the ordinary guy the Pre-Unit Bullet is the most affordable antique you can own and actually use.

If you are going to restore & not use, it's way cheaper to just go to the Antique Motorcycle shows and make some wall-sized pictures of your favorites. You can dress up a rigid frame equipped Bullet any way you like, and 99% of the passers by won't know it's not a historical artifact, just like your trail bike does right now. If you'd started your trail bike project with a BSA 441 Victor or the like, things would have been a lot harder and more expensive to sort out.

Plan "B" might be to just acquire an old running complete machine from England. At least all the major bits are there and you don't have to start playing parts fabricator right away. Hitchcocks has a close-to-operational 250 Model S for about 2800 pounds, and a 350 Model G semi-intact parts bike for 1200 pounds. There's a LOT more work and parts that 1600 pounds probably wouldn't cover between them.

https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/Used-Parts-and-Bikes/Bikes/44026
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Bilgemaster

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Reply #4 on: April 23, 2021, 03:29:18 am
Who knows what curiosities might get tugged out of a barn or more recently brought over, but the sorts of prewar Royal Enfields you describe were not shipped for export to the USA in significant numbers in their day. A few early '30s Model KX V-Twins made it over here, particularly up in Canada, but you won't be getting one of those for 5 to 8 Grand unless it looks like it was hauled off the ocean floor.

However, a Norton single like their humble Model 16H might scratch that itch yet still stay well within that price niveau, especially for a semi-scruffy but "nice enough" runner--the kind you wouldn't be afraid to ride anyhow. They made hundreds and hundreds of thousands of the things from 1911 to 1954, parts are readily available, and many have found their way to our shores. My hunch is even a civilianized WWII surplus 16H might tick all those "prewar characteristics" boxes you mention. More info on the Model 16H is found here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_16H

And if you're new to the breed, chin up! H.M.'s Ministry of Defence (no typo) Office of Crisp and Improbably Pukka Accentry is here to instruct you properly: https://youtu.be/Z23hqSyOEi4 (Part 1 of 3)


This 16H sold at auction for £4,485 ($6,220) last April
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 03:42:28 am by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India. Yet it squeaks by here in Virginia.

 


ddavidv

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Reply #5 on: April 23, 2021, 12:31:56 pm
He could just buy a brand new bike.

https://www.janusmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/
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nonfiction

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Reply #6 on: April 23, 2021, 06:34:52 pm
Gents!
Most useful (and entertaining!) discussion, thank you. Unfortunately confirms some of what we'd already been thinking. Both the Hitchcock's hardtail kit and the Janus are already on the table, but likely neither will *quite* scratch that itch. We will turn instead to chumming up the local/internet local heads in old-bikery and see what precipitates.