Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
General Discussion => Campfire Talk => Topic started by: axman88 on May 26, 2021, 06:21:59 pm
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Everywhere I look on the internet, I am seeing interesting developments in lightweight, electrically assisted transport.
The more I investigate, the more options I see, in terms of power and configuration, and there are many companies and individuals going in different directions. My impression is that here in the US, one of the most popular, if not THE most popular is the Fat Tire Ebike. The Himiway Cruiser, the Sondors X, and the RadRover are all examples of this, and there are many more. https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radrover-electric-fat-bike
With it's 4" + wide tires and traditional frame format, it seems to me that Americans have recreated the Schwinn heavyweight of their youth, but with electrical power to give them, once again, the lungs and legs they had in high school.
Meanwhile, elsewhere, but especially in Europe, development is considerably more diverse. All sorts of trikes and quads are being designed and built, velomobiles that offer partially or fully enclosed cabins, even taxis and cargo vehicles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxEedUL_7hQ
And yet, these diverse vehicles meet the legal definition of "bicycle" in many countries, and can take advantage of existing infrastructure.
This one is interesting, a pedal powered, electrically assisted, mini-semi truck that is generally produced with battery power sources, but here we see a developmental prototype equipped with a small fuel cell and hydrogen cylinder, which gives it a 190 mile range. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrcC-_hRtYo
Here, a similar design is used as a taxi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cOMroqj684
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You been busy! ;D Nice link.
And this was a great turn of phrase. " Americans have recreated the Schwinn heavyweight of their youth, but with electrical power to give them, once again, the lungs and legs they had in high school. " Ya could'a been a "Mad Men" contendah'...! ;D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men
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You been busy! ;D Nice link.
And this was a great turn of phrase. " Americans have recreated the Schwinn heavyweight of their youth, but with electrical power to give them, once again, the lungs and legs they had in high school. " Ya could'a been a "Mad Men" contendah'...! ;D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men
Wait a minute there, I still ride a Schwinn! But I'm thinking it'd take about a 16KV generator to make my lungs look like they did in high school and even that's a stretch. "Hey hon I'm gonna ride my pedal bike down to the corner for some cigars" ;D
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Well E bikes are a good idea but because of these insane British laws they must be peddled despite the fact they only do 15 mph, ironically you can ride a normal bike at 25 mph, but can't ride an electric that does 15 without peddling, how mental is that whatever lunatics write these laws.
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Well E bikes are a good idea but because of these insane British laws they must be peddled despite the fact they only do 15 mph, ironically you can ride a normal bike at 25 mph, but can't ride an electric that does 15 without peddling, how mental is that whatever lunatics write these laws.
This isn't a new issue either.
The Sinclair C5 was restricted to 15mph because of this law. Derestricted, they do nearly 40mph.
That's 40 years ago... nothing's changed.
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Well E bikes are a good idea but because of these insane British laws they must be peddled despite the fact they only do 15 mph, ironically you can ride a normal bike at 25 mph, but can't ride an electric that does 15 without peddling, how mental is that whatever lunatics write these laws.
Shouldn't you also have a person running in front of your e-bike waving a red flag, too? ::)
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Shouldn't you also have a person running in front of your e-bike waving a red flag, too? ::)
It's not a big deal to make an ebike with 4kW motor that does 60mph or close and looks like a bicycle, would you like to see that on the roads too? ;D
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It's not a big deal to make an ebike with 4kW motor that does 60mph or close and looks like a bicycle, would you like to see that on the roads too? ;D
My son-in-law built an e-bike on a mountain bicycle frame with a hub motor putting out 3KW about 10 years ago, powered by 40 pounds of NiCa batteries. But it was pretty heavy and one day when it ran out of juice he tried pedaling it 5 miles home and was completely wasted after he finally pushed it up the last hill. Plus, the bike would hit 40 mph and stopping it with the push bike's rim clamping brakes didn't work any better than the brakes on an iron barrel bullet. :o After that he gave up riding e-bikes.
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It might take a bit more refined development to do the 60mph, I doubt any company will do it. Most likely you would need a motorcycle helmet and a licence to take it on the road in Germany anyway. May as well take a propper motorbike. He who owns the roads makes the rules what can drive or ride on them. That would be here the state, once the EU burocrats are dealth with.
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Many e-bikes make use of regenerative braking, where the motor becomes a generator and provides auxiliary braking force through either recharging the battery or dissipating kinetic energy as heat in a radiator grid. Braking in general is a well traveled road, nothing to learn there, just apply what's already known. Top speed is a function of drag & available power, which is simply a design issue for the responsible engineer. So far "e-bikes" have exceeded 200 MPH. It's absurd to be stating what can or can't be done with e-bikes, as that depends on the parameters selected for a particular build. With a Bill Gates budget I'm certain quite a wonderous machine could be produced. If you spec a $1,500 maximum retail price tag, quite another machine would emerge from the workshop. Axman88 has provided an interesting glimpse into what's currently being done and available for "reasonable" money and is to be commended, not criticized for what you personally "think" is or isn't possible.
https://www.choosewheels.com/fast-electric-motorcycles/
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I guarantee you if you take all Bill Gatses money and stuff it in an electric motorbike development, be it a one of unique prototype, it won't beet a gasoline powered bike on the IOM. ;) ;D ;D ;D
...unless they make a silly show like RE did with the 650 on the bonnevill Salt flats, in Hollywood everything is possible.
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Such a "guarantee" is entirely dependent on current, available technology. 5 years from now a fuel cell (still an e-bike) equipped machine could in fact be the dominant IOM force. Even with todays tech, a "Mega-budget" could produce a formidable effort. Think back on Honda's NR500, in 1977 going head to head GP racing with the highly developed 2 strokes, giving up both power & weight advantages in a field full of highly competent riders and machines. Lots of learning & a few good finishes, but there if the leaders screwed up. Maybe with more current materials such as beryllium, titanium, carbon fiber nanotube, etc. they may have dominated, but it took a large box of money to do what they did. Electric motors have a exploitable advantages over infernal combustion engines, and if better materials gives them a superior power to weight margin, it could happen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NR500
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I believe it when I see it, let the money burning beginn. I'm not going to eat bug burgers though just to make it possible for couple money sobs to keep persuing that goal forever. ;)
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It might take a bit more refined development to do the 60mph, I doubt any company will do it. Most likely you would need a motorcycle helmet and a licence to take it on the road in Germany anyway.
I'd be happy to take that bet, and the first guy I'd be looking at to do it, would be David Twomey, the creative force behind Juicer bikes. ( Not Juiced bikes ) http://www.juicer.bike/
David's machines are basically handmade, are gorgeous retro creations, and he's currently using 3KW motors in his highest performance models. I wouldn't doubt that he's already surpassed 60 mph, but since this isn't capability that can be legally claimed for a production E-bicycle, you can't blame him for not blowing that particular horn too loudly.
Here's more info on the development of Juicer bikes. I personally think that they are the best looking, best engineered "custom styled" , recreational street machines around. https://www.electricbike.com/juicer-e-bikes-king-of-the-boardtrackers/
But E-bikes aren't about going fast, they are about low cost, low impact, local urban transport.
Consider my situation. My car can go at least 90 mph, but when I drive my car to commute to work in Chicago, an urban environment, it takes me 30 minutes to cover the 5.6 miles. That's 11.2 mph, average, but when I'm rolling, I'm traveling about 30 mph average. The majority of my commute time is spent stationary at traffic lights, behind a string of other lemmings, in their 90 to 120 mph capable cars. When I ride my old 3 speed bicycle instead of driving, (human powered, not electric), I can cover the same 5.6 miles in 35 minutes. I'm only traveling at about 12 mph, and with a little good luck and timing, I will only need to stop for one or two traffic lights. More than half of the world's population now lives in urban environments, like me. This is what E-bikes are designed for.
My speed is externally constrained, by external factors, like traffic. Having the ability to go 90, or 60, or even 35 mph adds nothing of value. Low operating cost is good for me, and low emissions is good for everyone. Being able to park anywhere, or push my machine inside the building for security, is a big plus too.
Ebikes are legally constrained to 15 mph in most European countries, according to what I've read, and to 20, (or 28 mph, depending on class) in the USA. Most of those being sold in the USA today can be easily modified, by a software update, to go faster, but this isn't really the point. Going outside those limits is forbidden for manufacturers. It's commonly done by individuals, and, so far, I haven't heard of anybody being prosecuted in the US for modifying their machine to go faster, but thanks to the exponential nature of aero drag, doing so heavily reduces cruising range. Personally, I'm quite content with a real 20 mph top speed on my bicycle, provided it comes with the right to coast through red lights, (here in Chicago, it "sorta" does), plus no required insurance, no required drivers license, no required registration, no required inspection, no required nothing and no paying for gasoline. I can legally ride on bike paths. I can even occasionally ride on the sidewalk, which I've been taking advantage of with the bicycle, since a major road on my commute has been shut down for the last two years for bridge work, but the pedestrian walkway has remained open.
Hub motors now generally include a 6 bolt standard mount pattern for disc brakes, and disc brakes front and rear are standard on the current crop of E-bikes, cable actuated for base models, and hydraulic actuated on high end machines. Drum hubs are also readily available.
Perhaps for reasons of price point, I haven't seen a lot of makers of E-bikes offering regenerative braking systems. Regen. isn't really efficient enough from what I've read, to make it worth implementing in these low speed, low mass vehicles. When I'm riding my human powered 3 speed bike, in the flat world that is Chicago, I can go all day without needing the brakes. The idea is conserve the energy in the first place, not to spend $1 to try to get 15 cents back in change.
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I'm not to much into retro styling of an e-bike that is supposed to look like a petrol engine powered bike, but I'm not the market neither a potential customer. E-bikes may need to discover their own styling.
If I wanted anything like that and burn cash on it, it would be a custom one off. If I sold more than 3 a commie would come along (or some Swedish dwarf on a fat Harley with inferiority complex) asking for a donation for sure, so why bother.
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I'm not to much into retro styling of an e-bike that is supposed to look like a petrol engine powered bike, but I'm not the market neither a potential customer. E-bikes may need to discover their own styling.
If I wanted anything like that and burn cash on it, it would be a custom one off. If I sold more than 3 a commie would come along (or some Swedish dwarf on a fat Harley with inferiority complex) asking for a donation for sure, so why bother.
One of the early highway-capable e-bikes (top speed of about 65mph) was the Brammo Enertia. It had distinctive styling. The vehicle was originally being distributed and sold by Best Buy stores starting in the fall of 2010, until the state of California DMV found out about it and informed the store that they didn't have a license to sell motor vehicles out of an electronics store. ::) Photos attached.
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And now we have the "Founders Edition" ::) of the Streetdog. And they are already sold out of them: https://electricmotorcycles.news/first-100-founders-edition-streetdogs-from-start-up-ftn-motion-are-sold-out-in-new-zealand/
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One of the early highway-capable e-bikes (top speed of about 65mph) was the Brammo Enertia. It had distinctive styling. The vehicle was originally being distributed and sold by Best Buy stores starting in the fall of 2010, until the state of California DMV found out about it and informed the store that they didn't have a license to sell motor vehicles out of an electronics store. ::) Photos attached.
;D ;D ;D ...the "green" state outlawed a supposedly "green" vehicle.
...and replaced it with a ridiculous design of some privileged children.
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And now, the rest of the story...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brammo
Brammo, Inc. was an American producer of electric traction motors and traction batteries[1] based in Talent, Oregon, United States. Brammo also developed and sold a range of electric motorcycles via the company's website and motorcycle dealers throughout the United States, Europe, and Asia.[2]
On January 15, 2015, Polaris Industries announced that it had purchased the entire electric motorcycle business from Brammo. Production of an electric motorcycle, the rebadged Victory Empulse, commenced at Polaris' factory in Spirit Lake, IA during the second half of 2015.[3]
In 2017 Polaris announced that they were reluctantly closing down their Victory Motorcycles brand.[33]
https://www.mailtribune.com/news/20171016/brammo-assets-sold-to-cummins/
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171016005785/en/Cummins-Announces-Acquisition-Energy-Storage-Technology
http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
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I am still irritated about Brammo. Sometime around 2012 they announced their new 100 mph, 10kWh battery, Brammo Empulse, would be available for something like $11K and they were accepting pre-orders for the bike. I visited Scuderia West (now a KTM and RE dealer) in San Francisco and saw the pre-production model (photos attached). I also met and spoke with their chief engineer that was there at the time. I really liked the bike and put in an order for one. Then the company decided to redesign the power train to include a six-speed transmission (which it didn't really need), to replace the original direct drive. They also raised the price a couple of thousand dollars and it was higher than that when the new version was released two years later. So I canceled my order and bought a 2012 Zero ZF9, which I thought was a great motorcycle for the time. It was good for 85 mph and I once was able to travel 100 miles on single charge on a Marin County back road on that model.
I did buttonhole the owner of the company, Craig, at the Sears Point race track and asked him why he didn't come out with the direct drive model first and then follow it up with the 6-speed version later. He told me that he was in the business for "fun" and he felt that motorcycle riders liked to shift gears as part of the experience of riding. I told him that wasn't a big attraction for me, but I don't think he really cared about my opinion and only built the version with an Italian transmission - which is still giving Empulse owners maintenance and reliability grief.
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So why did everything blow up for Polaris? Sounds like the basics were all there. Market change on them? Brand conflict? Bad marketing?
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So why did everything blow up for Polaris? Sounds like the basics were all there. Market change on them? Brand conflict? Bad marketing?
If you work at Brammo, your products are outlawed from selling, you get bought up by polaris who have the powder to bend laws and lubricate the politicos and they tell you now what to do after you've invested your life into that brammo brand development what will you do? Walk out. Speculation on my part, Brammo didn't find financial support after 2009 due to the market downturn so they sold out.
I'm still irritated about almost everything that happened after 2010.
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So why did everything blow up for Polaris? Sounds like the basics were all there. Market change on them? Brand conflict? Bad marketing?
It was due to a chicken-liver board that was loosing a lot of money at the time due to recall issues with their three-wheel car. The Brammo Empulse had been sucked up by their Victory brand and when that folded due to lagging sales, mostly due to the success of their Indian brand, the electric motorcycle went down the tubes with the rest of Victory. Plus, I have a suspicion that most Victory dealers didn't really want to sell and especially work on electric motorcycles as that required a lot of expensive and time-consuming staff retraining and were happy to get rid of them and start selling nothing but top-dollar Indian motorcycles.
BTW, Brammo's chief engineering development guy, transferred to Victory where he helped make some further changes to the Victory Empulse TT. When Polaris pulled the Victory plug, he moved over to Zero where he is now their Chief Engineering Director.
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If you work at Brammo, your products are outlawed from selling, you get bought up by polaris who have the powder to bend laws and lubricate the politicos and they tell you now what to do after you've invested your life into that brammo brand development what will you do? Walk out. Speculation on my part, Brammo didn't find financial support after 2009 due to the market downturn so they sold out.
I'm still irritated about almost everything that happened after 2010.
A portion of the Brammo assets, mostly the production rights to the Empulse, were sold to Victory who apparently saw H-D's LiveWire and thought they needed to be on the EV bandwagon, too. The owner of the Brammo company had just lost interest in manufacturing and selling motorcycles (he was really a car guy) and the startup-fun for him had just faded. He retained some of the useful EV tech that his company owned and started up another business as an EV consultant. I have no idea what Craig is doing now.
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Thanks for the write up! Looks like Zero is the front runner then, if they have the engineering brainiac behind Brammo.
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Thanks for the write up! Looks like Zero is the front runner then, if they have the engineering brainiac behind Brammo.
I like Zeros, but real EV enthusiasts prefer the Italian Energica models. They have more power and a higher top speed, a faster L3 charging system (Zero is stuck with L2 because of its 115V battery pack, while Energica's power train is around 320V), it has a better suspension and cooling system, higher chassis components, more electronic features and being Italian look a lot better. Their latest models also have a larger battery pack. However their bikes are about 150 pounds heaver than most Zero models, require much more maintenance, have a much smaller dealer network in the U.S. and cost more. Right now all Energicas in the U.S. are sold out and dealers have a waiting list and are waiting for more bikes to arrive, which have been delayed by manufacturing and shipping issues due to Covid.
My BMW dealer sells the Energica line. Attached are photos that I took a couple of years ago.
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No offense, but it might be difficult to get further from my intended focus of discussion, than these high powered, high speed, very stylish and sporty E-motorcycles. I realize now I should have used the word "Velo" or "bicycle" in the title, since "bikes" has been appropriated so completely by the motorcycle culture. My intention was to discuss moderately powered vehicles that are being developed to meet practical transportation needs.
It's a sad fact that, barring some profound reduction in air pressure values, those of us who live on the face of the Earth must accept that the net energy we spend on moving from place to place will always be exponentially related to the velocity of that travel. Nothing makes this clearer than riding our human powered bicycles, where every change of grade and puff of wind is immediately felt.
I do find it ironic that it often seems, that those most free of any time constraints, most absent of any need to be anywhere at any particular time, the retired community, seem most certain that they require the ability to travel at 60 or 90 mph, then take half the day so doing, only to return at the end of this time, to the same place they started, while it's young creative people, like Johan Erlandsson, who are developing such radical concepts as the Velove Armadillo.
https://newatlas.com/velove-armadillo-cargo-cycle/36995/
Perhaps if these folks knew that these new vehicle forms didn't have to be entirely practical, that they could also be a camper, they might actually look at the links, and discuss those new ideas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvfEm3h0CAQ
Or perhaps not, if they are disinterested. Plenty of my past threads have been sparsely responded to or ignored, I'm fine with that. There's lots of room for varied topics here on the forum, especially here in the Campfire section where new threads, on diverse topics, show up all the time. Strange that, with as much interest as folks have in them, that a thread doesn't seem to exist about Brammo. A search for Zero yields far too many results for me to dedicate the time to search through, one of the drawbacks of branding using a word with pre-existing meaning in the time of the internet.
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If you are looking to see a wide variety of both e-bicycles, scooters, urban electric motorcycles and just about everything else that is battery-powered and is available on the market, or in pre-production, you can visit this site. Although you may have to go back a ways to see everything that has been posted as they drop news about new EVs on the site every few days and have been doing so for a couple of years: https://electricmotorcycles.news/news/
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We read's 'em! ;D
Some flexible PV arrays on top of that "Covered Wagon" and you're set to camp for weeks in splendor.
A bit like these intrepid travelers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_handcart_pioneers
Pling Transport – Cargo bikes
https://smartcitysweden.com/companies/1951/pling-transport-cargo-bikes/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcaq7vTYymQ&t=4s
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@#28: That's just too useful and good. ::)
...maybe something to transport that insect burgers and cookies.
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I was always told - "If you're hungry, you'll eat it!" ;D ;D ;D
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At least he gave it a try...
https://hackaday.com/2021/05/30/bicycle-flywheel-stores-a-bit-of-energy-not-much/
"results perhaps serve as a solid indication of why it’s not something we use particularly often on bicycles"
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The reason it isn't very helpful is inappropriate technology. We don't use steam trains anymore. PV arrays surpass Solar-Thermal plants in output and operating efficiency. Beacon Energy has been building spun carbon fiber flywheel energy storage modules for many years. They run at over 22,000 RPM, spin in vacuum on maglev bearings. Power is added or removed from the core electronically via a brushless inductive process. This guy did a nice job of building a demo, but you can't make "did work" or "didn't work" assumptions based on a crude model using inherently limiting tech. A real problem with a useful flywheel in a vehicle is mass & gyroscopic precession. Serious gyro's need to be gimballed. Bolted on solidly and spun up to maximum, you could literally have a vehicle that wouldn't turn, or would hang rigidly in space by a wheel if you went down an incline.
My favorite - Professor Eric Laithwaite gives a demonstration of a large gyro wheel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRPC7a_AcQo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeyDf4ooPdo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L2YAU-jmcE
https://beaconpower.com/islands-isolated-grids/
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Axman88 @ #26: " I do find it ironic that it often seems, that those most free of any time constraints, most absent of any need to be anywhere at any particular time, the retired community, seem most certain that they require the ability to travel at 60 or 90 mph, then take half the day so doing, only to return at the end of this time, to the same place they started "
A valid point. As I age out, I find the 70+ MPG, 22 HP, 55ish MPH speed of the Pre-Unit Bullet appropriate for my "needs". There are several available 250cc machines that replicate this performance envelop at 100 pounds less weight. A 300 pound H2 fuel cell e-bike with a 300 mile range and 35 - 45 top end should be doable. Probably an additional 100 pounds of batteries could give you a machine that covers 150 miles between charges.
The question I have is why do all this instead of just using a "renewable" hydrocarbon fuel like bio-diesel, alcohol or bio-gasoline? The energy storage capacity of these liquids is proven. Hydrocarbon chemistry can make virtually any compound given appropriate feedstock. Chemical Recycling of plastic is available tech and produces essentially "crude oil" if the process is built for that output. Wouldn't it have to be cheaper to use synthetic recycled hydrocarbon fuel than completely rebuild the transportation infrastructure?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_recycling
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"you can't make "did work" or "didn't work" assumptions based on a crude model using inherently limiting tech."
Affordable tech.
Yeah, a serious flywheel setup wouldn't allow him to go around bends ;D
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I was researching recovery rates for regenerative braking on electric vehicles, when U-tube decided it was appropriate to offer me a look at this fellow's bicycle flywheel experiment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gahKxbwUcYw
It certainly does look like it works, and could even be a quite useful gadget, if one's route consisted of lots of long, straight downhill runs, with busy cross streets at the bottom of the hill. But, the gyro effects and extra cost, complexity, and mass seem to make it impractical for the average rider.
As far as recovery rates for regenerative braking on E-vehicles, my impression is that this feature is not much more at present than a something for salesman to point out, "WE got it, and theirs ain't!" Even highly advanced Tesla isn't saying much more in print than, "it theoretically COULD be as high as, ....". The calculation involves multiplying out all the efficiency factors for the various conversions, chemical / electrical x electrical / mechanical x drive train efficiency, then squaring that, because at BEST, the same efficiency factors apply to recovering the energy. In the real world, I suspect the flywheel would recover a higher percentage of energy than regenerative braking, because motors are optimized to convert electricity to mechanical power, not visa versa, and because the two least efficient energy conversion steps don't apply to flywheels.
Reports of real world experiments with vehicles equipped with the regenerative braking feature were suggesting numbers like 15 -20% had been attained, and that the system is only really practical when one is traversing long downhill runs, where braking is required for safety or to meet legal restrictions. In general, a much better strategy to conserve energy, is to do what comes natural on our human powered vehicles, when faced with an imminent stop, start coasting.
Such a strategy would make one extremely unpopular commuting in a car in an urban setting, one is expected to drive the speed limit, regardless of what lies 100 feet down the road, but there is more freedom for the bicycle. Since I've started riding bicycles again, I find that there are long stretches on my work commute, where a 60+ year old man on a bicycle can, over a distance, easily keep up with vehicle traffic. It's classic turtle and hare, I pass them in their stoplight queues, and they pass me between the lights. Sometimes this happens 3 or 4 times in a row. I was very surprised to find that after only a week of bicycle riding, I was able to match, or beat my automobile commute time. Once I go electric, I think this will become absolutely no contest in favor of the bicycle.
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KERS..kinetic energy recovery system, I believe the Formula 1 used some mechanical system employing a flywheel, adding a boost of some 60-80 hp when exiting the corner.
Probably the F1 regulations don't allow the use of engines of adequate horsepower.
In electric vehicles and bikes it doesn't cost any extra hardware to add the KERS function, which is why mostly all large manufacturers will have it included. It might be a bit challenging to implement it in a way so it remains unnoticed by the rider.
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I was researching recovery rates for regenerative braking on electric vehicles, when U-tube decided it was appropriate to offer me a look at this fellow's bicycle flywheel experiment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gahKxbwUcYw
It certainly does look like it works, and could even be a quite useful gadget, if one's route consisted of lots of long, straight downhill runs, with busy cross streets at the bottom of the hill. But, the gyro effects and extra cost, complexity, and mass seem to make it impractical for the average rider.
As far as recovery rates for regenerative braking on E-vehicles, my impression is that this feature is not much more at present than a something for salesman to point out, "WE got it, and theirs ain't!" Even highly advanced Tesla isn't saying much more in print than, "it theoretically COULD be as high as, ....". The calculation involves multiplying out all the efficiency factors for the various conversions, chemical / electrical x electrical / mechanical x drive train efficiency, then squaring that, because at BEST, the same efficiency factors apply to recovering the energy. In the real world, I suspect the flywheel would recover a higher percentage of energy than regenerative braking, because motors are optimized to convert electricity to mechanical power, not visa versa, and because the two least efficient energy conversion steps don't apply to flywheels.
Reports of real world experiments with vehicles equipped with the regenerative braking feature were suggesting numbers like 15 -20% had been attained, and that the system is only really practical when one is traversing long downhill runs, where braking is required for safety or to meet legal restrictions. In general, a much better strategy to conserve energy, is to do what comes natural on our human powered vehicles, when faced with an imminent stop, start coasting.
Such a strategy would make one extremely unpopular commuting in a car in an urban setting, one is expected to drive the speed limit, regardless of what lies 100 feet down the road, but there is more freedom for the bicycle. Since I've started riding bicycles again, I find that there are long stretches on my work commute, where a 60+ year old man on a bicycle can, over a distance, easily keep up with vehicle traffic. It's classic turtle and hare, I pass them in their stoplight queues, and they pass me between the lights. Sometimes this happens 3 or 4 times in a row. I was very surprised to find that after only a week of bicycle riding, I was able to match, or beat my automobile commute time. Once I go electric, I think this will become absolutely no contest in favor of the bicycle.
I have been riding electric motorcycles for the past 12 years and I can tell you that the power generated by the motor and put back into the battery on a motorcycle when slowing is not very much. My first two electric motorcycles had a device that kept track of the regeneration effect and on my other motorcycles I just estimated the impact of regen based upon any increase in the battery's displayed State of Charge on the instrument display. Under normal riding conditions you can expect about a 1% to 3% range increase from regeneration. The higher figure would result from city travel, with a lot of stop and go riding. However, cars can do better, apparently due to their greater mass and more powerful motors, which results in the manufacturer being able to up the regen without worrying about the tires skidding on wet pavement.
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In the future when you are riding electric motorcycles and want to make modifications to them, you can look forward to modifying something like this. :o
Happy wrenching! ;D
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In the future when you are riding electric motorcycles and want to make modifications to them, you can look forward to modifying something like this. :o
Happy wrenching! ;D
Yup, you are going to have to be Albert Einstein to figure it out. ;D
....and no time for lunch.
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Going to have to wear thick rubber gloves too :-[
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If only you could still buy the Roper Steam Velocipede ...
(http://www.ebikeportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/roper-steam-engine-velocipede-3.png)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/The_Greatest_Mechanical_Exhibition_in_the_World._Roper_steam_handbill.png/260px-The_Greatest_Mechanical_Exhibition_in_the_World._Roper_steam_handbill.png)
(http://www.ebikeportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/roper-steam-engine-velocipede-1-300x165.png)
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If only you could still buy the Roper Steam Velocipede ...
(http://www.ebikeportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/roper-steam-engine-velocipede-3.png)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/The_Greatest_Mechanical_Exhibition_in_the_World._Roper_steam_handbill.png/260px-The_Greatest_Mechanical_Exhibition_in_the_World._Roper_steam_handbill.png)
(http://www.ebikeportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/roper-steam-engine-velocipede-1-300x165.png)
This is one I did a small amount of work on. The builder was an engineer at Lycoming, and did ride it for short distances. It's owned by Connecticut Antique Machinery Association and is on display at the CAMA museum in Kent Connecticut.
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This is one I did a small amount of work on. The builder was an engineer at Lycoming, and did ride it for short distances. It's owned by Connecticut Antique Machinery Association and is on display at the CAMA museum in Kent Connecticut.
That looks awesome 8)
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That is really cool! ;D But probably hot when it is running. ;)
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That is really cool! ;D But probably hot when it is running. ;)
I'm told that it was literally like trying to ride a wood stove down the road. Due to state regulations concerning live steam we've never fired it up. The state inspector just looked at it and laughed when we asked him to sign off on it. For display we run it on compressed air, it attracts a lot of attention during our festivals.
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The state inspector just looked at it and laughed when we asked him to sign off on it.
I'll wager the guy who built it knew a damned sight more than the 'inspector' ::)
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I'll wager the guy who built it knew a damned sight more than the 'inspector' ::)
I dunno about that. The builder was a very bright guy, but the guy that does the boiler inspections for the state of Connecticut and is responsible for signing off on anything powered by steam, be it a stationary engine, a traction engine or a restored locomotive is very well respected by the guys that actually restore that kind of stuff and work with steam. The big fear is that when he retires there won't be any one to replace him, and the state will contract it out to someone that doesn't give a shit.
FWIW the steam guys in our club have mentioned that one of the things they like about him is that he'll tells them in no uncertain terms what he requires to pass an engine that will be run in a public setting. What schedule pipe etc, as long as they comply he's happy.
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state will contract it out to someone that doesn't give a shit.
Yeah, that's what I normally have to deal with >:(
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Yeah, that's what I normally have to deal with >:(
I feel for you, I've been there. I think what's worse is when they do give a shit, but are utterly clueless about everything else. >:(
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https://hackaday.com/2021/06/10/a-self-driving-bicycle-is-something-to-marvel-at/
"The performance of the system is impressive, and is even able to hold the bike perfectly upright while balanced on a fence rail. Thanks to an onboard camera and LIDAR system, the bike can also drive itself around with no rider on board."
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Here is a surprise to me. Revzilla is now selling e-bikes through their internet motorcycle accessory store.
https://www.revzilla.com/ebikes
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That could be the beginnings of the "bright" future they make in Sweden and California. 8)
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Germany seems to have a lot of EV's & PHEV's. You have a deposit on one yet?
https://insideevs.com/news/504204/germany-plugin-sales-march-2021/
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Germany seems to have a lot of EV's & PHEV's. You have a deposit on one yet?
https://insideevs.com/news/504204/germany-plugin-sales-march-2021/
Company cars? Probably. No I don't need a car at the moment and I'm not interested to go anywhere until the covid is resolved and the government that inflicted those wounds is out of office - which may indeed be never.
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Germany seems to have a lot of EV's & PHEV's. You have a deposit on one yet?
https://insideevs.com/news/504204/germany-plugin-sales-march-2021/
Yup, must be the parasitic an subidised companies and households getting into the EV's and PHEV's. Economic perpetual machine works for a few atleast.
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It could also be the free electric/hybrid car battery charging aspect from your own homes PV array, as well as a stipend from "ancilliary services (voltage & VAR support)" to the Grid. Get a new Leaf, you are missing out. Even a motorhome (caravan?) can support 2 KW of panels, and a Leaf makes a great 100 mile round trip grocery getter. Or are meals supplied at the Home? ;D
https://www.caranddriver.com/nissan/leaf
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It could also be the free electric/hybrid car battery charging aspect from your own homes PV array, as well as a stipend from "ancilliary services (voltage & VAR support)" to the Grid. Get a new Leaf, you are missing out. Even a motorhome (caravan?) can support 2 KW of panels, and a Leaf makes a great 100 mile round trip grocery getter. Or are meals supplied at the Home? ;D
https://www.caranddriver.com/nissan/leaf
We are still couple of years behind that "reality" in Germany, in 5-10 years maybe.
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Au contraire mon frère. Germany is a leader here. PHEV's are real and readily available - just break out the old chequebook and be sure to retain the counterfoil for your subsidy paperwork. You're living in the future, son...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Germany
The stock of plug-in electric vehicles in Germany is the largest in Europe, as of December 2020, cumulative registrations in Germany totaled 700,419 plug-in electric passenger cars since 2010, consisting of 362,559 all-electric cars and 337,860 plug-in hybrids.[7][8][9][10][20] In addition, Germany had a stock of 21,890 light-duty electric commercial vehicles in 2019, the second largest in Europe after France.[21] As of March 2020, the country had 27,730 public charging stations.[22]
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Where I live I see only one electric car in the entire place, haven't seen a single electric motorcycle yet. However plenty of electrified bicycles, lot of retirees use them for their practicability.
You should not believe everything you Google up. ;D
362.558 EV circulate around Berlin maybe, to make sure Mrs Merkel feels in control.
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Where I live in the San Francisco Bay Area it seems like every other car is a Tesla Model 3. :o Those things are selling like hotcakes around here.
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Where I live in the San Francisco Bay Area it seems like every other car is a Tesla Model 3. :o Those things are selling like hotcakes around here.
You may see lot of electric crap in Sweden too, they might have some genetic or ethnic order thou. If you are in that category than probably the stupidest job in that place will pay you the 60k$ for the Model 3 so you may buy a new one every year. Maybe you have to be connected to that Greta foundation, who knows.
I'm pretty glad I don't have to see that place again, than all the arabs in huge Mercedeses, who have been on welfare for the entire life. Can't see that s#it, seriously can't.
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I just returned from a 500 mile round trip to Cambria CA from San Diego. Teslas were so common it was hard to count them. Many parking lots have charging stations now.
As much as PVC valves, seatbelts and unleaded gas rattled geezers years ago, change is a constant.
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Great, but keep that mandatory change in California and Sweds in Sweden. I doubt a State where the welfare recipients are paid better than those who have to clean their arses has any great future in front of them, seriously doubt that. There is tools to fix that, and it's getting fixed in Sweden.
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California's state legislators are currently proposing a taxpayer-funded monthly income of between $500 to $1000 for those poor souls who are categorized as "under-served" by the state, including "undocumented" migrant residents who jumped the southern border and voters who are not interested in working for a living. As near as I can tell, that won't include "illegal" Swedes or Canadians that are stuck here because the northern border is locked down by Canada, apparently to keep Americans from having a good time in their country feeding mosquitoes during the summer. ::)
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The arabic clans in Sweden have definitely prospered due to the Stockholm syndrome. To keep their pillage potential down the welfare states only way to deal with them must have been to keep them well entertained and fed. Politicos solving issues with throwing money at them. You won't get to see many working on construction or building, if than as a supervisor or boss since they are the natural born "entrepreneurs".
They definitely came to rule and to spread their shitty restaurants maybe, without owning a restaurant and a Mercedes you probably are not a man in that community. In order to keep their restaurants running they may run behind you if they see you shopping in the supermarket.
At the assembly lines of Volvo you probably going to see the remains of the Swedish bikini team working who would unlikely set a foot to one of those restaurants where they would tell you how great Sweden is and how much you owe the place.
The coward sweds using EU citizens to deal with them, hiding themseved in the background. It's time they clean up their own mess. If you tell a Swedish Wanker something they don't like to hear they will connect to the Arabs quickly though, and probably send you couple of them for a visit. Ratts, disgusting ratts.
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The Swedish Mercedes CEO probalby want´s to turn Stuttgard into the same thing I could imagine, where the "management" doesn´t run a vehicle company but a private gestapo extorting everyone in that city. Might be time to build a big fat wall around it.
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Wow! Sweden sounds worse than California. ;)
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Wow! Sweden sounds worse than California. ;)
It's an Islamic State and they don't even have muslims.
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Ohhh...I just realized that this thread was about the "Extremists-Bike" developments...maybe I'll look on FaceBook for the rest of the technical discussion part, the echo chamber is over here now.
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Ohhh...I just realized that this thread was about the "Extremists-Bike" developments...maybe I'll look on FaceBook for the rest of the technical discussion part, the echo chamber is over here now.
Well, they've got no issues marketing supposedly "extreme" designs which are not theirs. They do "whatever it takes" to get them.
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Ohhh...I just realized that this thread was about the "Extremists-Bike" developments...maybe I'll look on FaceBook for the rest of the technical discussion part, the echo chamber is over here now.
Yeah, I tried posting something relevant ::)
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Yeah, I tried posting something relevant ::)
Question, what's there to develop on an elecric bike?
...Marketing? ;D ...I don't care much about that.
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Here is something kind of relevant: An article in my newspaper yesterday said that the U.S. EPA is in love with ICE vehicles and doesn't like electric vehicles because they don't emit emissions that they are trying to regulate and control. If EVs were all there were to regulate they would be out of the vehicle regulating job. And that would suck for those government employees. :'(
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Given the sensitive state of world affairs, I'm thinking "they" may be looking at extremist posts a lot harder. Our prevalence of nutball shootists recently on this side of the Pond may be instructive to the Bundespolizei or BPOL. With far-right extremism on the rise, the BPOL is of necessity doing a lot more monitoring. A smart guy wouldn't step into the gunsights willingly. Maybe a "Dark Web" forum would be a better place for informative political opinion sharing, you know, the ones "impossible" for the NSA or BND, BfV, or LfV to access. Or you could just dig the hole deeper. Or you could use this forum more on topic instead of as a spleen venting opportunity, that'd be nice for a change. I know you are able to do so, we've seen it many times. That guy's a real asset.
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Well, that's the issue. The Swedish figured accordingly to some "statistics" that if you drive a BMW than you are a nationalist with a probability of 80ish %, which is why they confiscated my BMW. I'm pissed off...
...fu#c they confiscated everything that was mine including wife and kid. I want that country to be blown up in a nuclear strike.
Here an entertaining documentary how they operate. They probably think it's funny...
https://www.svtplay.se/video/30418688/uppdrag-granskning/uppdrag-granskning-9-mars-19-00?id=eyV5J9v&fbclid=IwAR0i1LDFJTnqQAe8Xrz1Xa23G-ZlUh2tuO0B25kNW5n6isKZtZiZoMAOlT4
...the documentary itself is most likely a part of the scam.
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Question, what's there to develop on an elecric bike?
...Marketing? ;D ...I don't care much about that.
Derrottone, if you were one of my mates I'd have dragged you to a doctor a few weeks ago.
Seriously, go and see a doctor :-\
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Yeah, I'm going to do that. Thanks for the advice, asperger pays well.
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Aspergers isn't a bad thing. It allows you to think deeply about topics or subjects. The downside is that what the other meat puppets around you are thinking & why aren't obvious to the Aspergee. Most of the really good techs I've been around are on the "spectrum" and have idiosyncrasies. But you do need to learn how to stay out of trouble. Like Rodney King said - "Can't we all just get along?".
My take on this was formed when my sister was taking a class on stone tool making. Simple Flake tools are a pretty obvious step. Not so obvious is taking a large flint nodule, visualizing the two or three dozen blades hidden inside, then precisely striking off these from a worked core. A "normal" guy would never "see" these blades stacked up like that. Functional Aspergers folks able to work such witchery were a real asset to the group, worth keeping fed and out of the rain.
Anyhow, we all have issues and all use coping strategies. Only the uber-wealthy don't need to get along, for the rest of us survival is enhanced by cooperation. Less stress, more fun too.
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Fyi...cooperation works when there is mutual benefit. ;)
...only downside, cooperating with Gretas, otoh they travel the world and distribute cash to some unknown politicians all over the world.
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?!? :-X
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According to this guy the problem is they are trying to sell Electric Motorcycles to cycnical old fart's with a bike licence and money (like inhabit this forum) who would otherwise buy a Triumph or Harley - whereas the true market demand is for light weight licence free bikes for hipster city chicks to ride to the office ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zlYpy6QCM
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According to this guy the problem is they are trying to sell Electric Motorcycles to cycnical old fart's with a bike licence and money (like inhabit this forum) who would otherwise buy a Triumph or Harley - whereas the true market demand is for light weight licence free bikes for hipster city chicks to ride to the office ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zlYpy6QCM
Another great video from fortnine ;)
He's right (again) in what's happening.
When I got started with bikes (RD200) it was cheap, light-weight fun. That's what e-bikes should be.
If people then develop a passion, then manufacturers can build for that audience, not the other way around.
There's nothing on 2 wheels available to carry more gear than my GL1500 which is precisely why I bought it. If other conventional bikes can't compete, how would an e-bike??
Manufacturers should completely forget about me and build for people who need fun, light-weight and cheap to insure 2-wheelers.
An electric C90
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Another great video from fortnine ;)
He's right (again) in what's happening.
When I got started with bikes (RD200) it was cheap, light-weight fun. That's what e-bikes should be.
If people then develop a passion, then manufacturers can build for that audience, not the other way around.
There's nothing on 2 wheels available to carry more gear than my GL1500 which is precisely why I bought it. If other conventional bikes can't compete, how would an e-bike??
Manufacturers should completely forget about me and build for people who need fun, light-weight and cheap to insure 2-wheelers.
An electric C90
There can't be a passion for electric motorcycles ever. There just isn't anything to do with them. The maintenance will be limited to tires and brakes, everything else that may fail will fly directly in the garbage and will be replaced.
It's like mobile phones, you have one today and another tomorrow. I don't see folks polishing their 30 years old bikes and considering the patina on the battery an added value. I just don't.
The main reason why they are not a widespread consumer item yet is the technical downsides and price, which we already know about.
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There can't be a passion for electric motorcycles ever. There just isn't anything to do with them. The maintenance will be limited to tires and brakes, everything else that may fail will fly directly in the garbage and will be replaced.
It's like mobile phones, you have one today and another tomorrow. I don't see folks polishing their 30 years old bikes and considering the patina on the battery an added value. I just don't.
The main reason why they are not a widespread consumer item yet is the technical downsides and price, which we already know about.
We don't agree on much, but I think you've nailed this. E-bikes no matter how practical or technically advanced they become just don't elicit the same kind of passion that ICE bikes do. They are commodities and nothing more. It's hard for me to imagine anyone feeling the same way about an electric bike, no matter how well made it is as they might feel about something like an SS900 Ducati for one example.
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The designers might call it "soft values" of the product, which the corporate management likes to talk about, however its rarely understood by the techs neither the bean counters, probably by the management as well.
If you were Swedish agreeing would probably mean disagreeing though. :D
Another issue which the elecric car makers strongly underestimate at least in Europe is that the second hand marker is extremely limited. They are not likely to sell many used electric cars to Eastern Europe, Africa or Russia when the infrastructure exists only in some select capitols like Berlin or Stockholm. That might mean an extreme price depreciation on those EVs, another reason anyone on a budget may shy away.
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The designers might call it "soft values" of the product, which the corporate management likes to talk about, however its rarely understood by the techs neither the bean counters, probably by the management as well.
If you were Swedish agreeing would probably mean disagreeing though. :D
Another issue which the elecric car makers strongly underestimate at least in Europe is that the second hand marker is extremely limited. They are not likely to sell many used electric cars to Eastern Europe, Africa or Russia when the infrastructure exists only in some select capitols like Berlin or Stockholm. That might mean an extreme price depreciation on those EVs, another reason anyone on a budget may shy away.
I'm not sure about the "Swedish" aspect of the conversation, but the rest of it makes a lot of sense. I hadn't considered resale, but that's a very good point.
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Me neither, the wheel doesn't work say the swedish gurus, why they bother making any vehicles at all I don't know.
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Would a Ducati 916 not still look beautiful if it were electric?
Don't get me wrong, a lot of the passion is the sound of an engine. My wife thinks it's very bizarre that I can recognize engine configurations by the exhaust notes.
What sounds like a HD? What sounds like an Impreza... RG500... I hear a V8 and my eyes widen... these are the sounds of promises.
Electric motors just don't evoke any feelings in the same way as listening to a supercharger spooling or the opening of a dump valve.
It can't be solved either. The 2 stroke howl at 9000rpm is a cacophony to the majority of the public and they certainly won't appreciate it replicated by loudspeaker on an e-bike!
Electric motors are quiet because they're efficient. Without that heartbeat, manufacturers will have to start employing designers that understand visual beauty alongside the techs who can eke that last mile from the battery.
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Yeah, car manufacturers already did that, sucked out money out of everything and threw it at the battery manufacturers and built huge battery plants.
And there they are, sitting, drinking coffee, waiting for a miracle, hoping that the capacity of the batteries doubles and the weight goes down by half, charging times to 5 minutes and the cost to the equivalent of an ICE + fuel tank. Kissing the Ring of Claus Schwab and Bill Gates in the hopes that they tax and rip off everyone even more so that they can keep sitting and drinking coffee for ever and celebrate their success of dumbing everyone down. ;D
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We don't agree on much, but I think you've nailed this. E-bikes no matter how practical or technically advanced they become just don't elicit the same kind of passion that ICE bikes do. They are commodities and nothing more. It's hard for me to imagine anyone feeling the same way about an electric bike, no matter how well made it is as they might feel about something like an SS900 Ducati for one example.
I quite disagree. If one looks at the work of the INDIVIDUALS who are creating these machines, it's obvious that they are quite passionate about their work. Looking at the U-tube videos of the individuals who purchase Electric bikes and are enthusiastic, even evangelical about the bikes they have purchased, it's clear that here are people who are passionate about something that others have little interest in. The days when men and boys worked on hot rods is long gone, those who retain the knowledge and interest in these things, are eccentrics, far in the minority. Many folks these days have no interest in personally caring for, or even owning a car, or a motorcycle, or any form of personal transportation. They will call Uber, have their groceries delivered, and develop keen and detailed knowledge of the technical workings of some virtual computer game.
The arguments that folks are making here, have been made before, years ago, by the men who loved horses. "What right thinking person could ever love a machine in the way that they could a living, breathing animal?", they said. And although I'm a city boy, and haven't spent much time at all around horses, it does seem like a good argument, a good horse seems clearly a better object of affection than a collection of steel, aluminum, and rubber. I wasn't around for this debate, I grew up in the heyday of the internal combustion engine. But it's fairly obvious that that we are now in the evening of that day, with a new heir apparent.
Just like the horse was replaced as man's prime mover, so will the ICE, and for very similar reasons. Not because the horse was too slow, or too weak, or not efficient or reliable enough. It was because they stank!
https://www.blog.greenprojectmanagement.org/index.php/2019/05/13/pollution-why-we-replaced-horses-with-automobiles/
https://thetyee.ca/News/2013/03/06/Horse-Dung-Big-Shift/
The evolution of this thread, which I originally established with the intent of discussing the application of maturing E-bike technology to practical, utilitarian WORK vehicles, and then was subsequently and unfortunately shifted to sporty two wheelers designed only for play, then to steam vehicles, to electric cars, and to finally to general resistance to the concept of E vehicles of all kinds, and curmudgeonly complaints about society, suggests to me that even attempting to discuss these ideas in this forum is futile.
Nevertheless, I'll present a few more leads to other vehicles that are in the same vein as those I originally presented.
DHL Quad delivery cycles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaDzp_K0EPY
The Citkar Loadster, an enclosed pedi delivery vehicle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLPfDC6JCUQ
The Quicab / Ciclotaxi, an articulated pedi taxicab https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5KnzkTxBQw
The ONO transporter is in production. Note the battery swap station shown at 1:10 in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFvPQXU_3-s
It appears to me that the technology has reached a level of maturity that allows it be relatively easily applied to diverse purposes. There are multiple motor manufacturers, offering economical, efficient prime movers in a variety of power ratings and types. There are several battery cell producers offering standardized, high quality individual cells, in industrial quantities, that are being packaged in various configurations, which are also fairly well standardized. 3 phase controllers, throttle, brake, display, and other ancillary components are cheap and readily available. Even the connectors being used have achieved some level of standardization. These factors are allowing the market to expand rapidly.
I can see real benefits, especially as infrastructure expands. Because these vehicles purposefully meet the definition of "bicycle", they are allowed to use infrastructure under the relatively relaxed legal restrictions that are imposed on bicycles. For example, here, I can use bike lanes, I can coast through stop signs, I can even go through red lights when there is no cross traffic, all with impunity. For those of you, who may already be facing pressure to give up your driving privileges due to advanced age, such vehicles, lightweight, easily managed, and economical, offer the option of continued mobility. Some even qualify as "personal mobility devices".
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I very much agree with that, passionate INDIVIDUALS come up with attractive and/or interesting designs.
Mass market and consumer commodity like electric bikes are the other side of the story.
Regarding stink, I remember 2008 when they outlawed smoking in clubs and bars I almost couldn't bear the stink. ;)
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In the UK, bicycles are supposed to follow the same road laws as other users regarding traffic lights etc so there's little benefit to using one over a moped other than running costs (tax/insurance etc).
Moped theft here is very high and (normal) bicycle theft is ridiculous - I've had 2 £1000+ mountain bikes stolen. My current cycle never leaves my sight when I take it out of the shed, which means I can't nip in to town with it. I know that the toe-rags will be off with it in seconds.
I'd love to put an electric rear hub on it but that just makes it more attractive to thieves.
There's only 1 secure area in our town for cycles and it's constantly full.
Steal my GoldWing... go on...
As business utility vehicles, electric vans etc, yeah, electric in the town centres are fine. Nissan do a decent van but it's unladen range is 70 miles. They need to get that up to over 400 miles to make any impact on what's currently available and used as duty vehicles.
Would I take an electric GoldWing? Hell yeah! It would have to out perform the one I already have though and, with existing technology, there's zero chance.
An electric 916 though.... 8)
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Thieving morrons, Sweden is full of them, I think they might consider it in that country as "taking entrepreneurial risk". Than they wonder that the FBI & Europol & Secret service & Military monitor their every step.
916 electric, why not building it yourself? Unlikely any massproducer will go on with it after so many failed to earn a buck with it.
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@ #88: I have to disagree. Tech will easily solve the visceral experience aspect. In-helmet speakers will accurately replicate the sounds of whatever machine you select for the day. The engine electronics can accurately re-create the power delivery characteristics, handling nuance & idiosyncrasies of whatever machine you select it to emulate, it'll all be "fly-by-wire" anyway, fake throttle, shift lever, clutch lever. All this is just programming. You want a Honda Six? How about a Vincent Shadow? The sounds, shift points, occasional false neutrals, power delivery can all be replicated electronically. The sole drawback is that only the rider will know what "mode" he's in, only the rider has to hear the engine "throb" or "howl". This maybe actually be somewhat of a problem for the peer-pressure driven contingent. Given adequate power to meet a particular requested option, the rest is system application programming. Cars have had different driving modes for some time now, it's just a case of degree and market demand.
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@94: How about VR glasses for everybody? If the "mass market" drives around in VR I won't have any issues riding around on a RE. ::)
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Quite a few bikes are fly-by-wire and I know that back in 2007 the GSXR1000 had a mode selector switch for it's power curve :o
Emulation may be fine for a lot of the mass market (I run emulators of 1980's computers) but 'faking' an engine, though possible, is not actually going to keep riders happy other than as a novelty function.
As for building an electric 916, while entirely feasible, it's going to be limited by todays technology to a range of 90? miles before requiring a few hours on the charger. I've no interest in sitting for 2 hours waiting to do a journey that should only take 2 hours. I had to do this in a Tesla last year - very frustrating!
Bikes need hot-swap batteries.
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@ # 95: VR doesn't provide physical sensation, you'd need a mil-spec simulator for that. Maybe in a Hi-Tech arcade. The hard part is the bug-injector, where the various local species of flying insects are shot at you randomly... :o
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@ #96: If it has to be an electric bike, H2 fuel cell tech offers better range opportunities. But it would certainly be easier to just create a source for "bio-gasoline" and skip the whole rebuild the transport infrastructure. Petro is a proven energy storage medium. There is certainly no lack of ability to make this happen, just desire to do so.
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@ # 95: VR doesn't provide physical sensation, you'd need a mil-spec simulator for that. Maybe in a Hi-Tech arcade. The hard part is the bug-injector, where the various local species of flying insects are shot at you randomly... :o
All that's needed to provide that physical sensation is a red led that lights up every time you crash and an arab behind you with a billy club.
PS: and a cage around it, that configuration might solve most issues you may face in sweden, got to recommend it to them.
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I like the other Derottone better - leave a note for HIM to come back... :(
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I like the other Derottone better - leave a note for HIM to come back... :(
+1
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;D...I'm serious, I think their social issues would be a thing of the past.
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" and a cage around it, that configuration might solve most issues you may face in sweden, got to recommend it to them. "
So...how was that cage you were inhabiting? ;D
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" and a cage around it, that configuration might solve most issues you may face in sweden, got to recommend it to them. "
So...how was that cage you were inhabiting? ;D
That you will see when I visit the place next time. Fx#ign sw@#is p#d0 jwz.
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Well to be more precise, it was Buckminster who layed out the path to prosperity as he summarised it in his book "the critical path". The critical path is what makes all the green s#it possible in the first place, so it's an absolutely great idea to torture, extort, f@#ck, black&#&mail anyone who is working towards to that direction. Exactly as the sw@#ish fu#$ing jwz do.
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Derottone#a, can you translate this last communique from Derottone#b? Something concerning about Buckminster Fuller and his book "The Critical Path". This book starts off claiming "Human life began in the atolls of the South Pacific, where the average sea temperature is closest to that of the human body", so I'm not too sure why Derottone#b believes it's the foundation for modern thought. It is interesting though, lots of clever ideas and informed speculation in it. But the same can be said for Clarke, Asimov, Verne, Niven, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Path_(book)
The following is a list of the main claims and opinions presented in the book, reported without discussion or criticism.
Part One ; The first part of the book explains the history and present state of the global economy.
Chapter 1 - Speculative Prehistory of Humanity
Human life began in the atolls of the South Pacific, where the average sea temperature is closest to that of the human body (p. 6). Rather than evolving from simpler organisms, humanity was of extraterrestrial origin and other organisms evolved from us (p. 7). From this base, humanity developed boat-building in Southeast Asia and colonised the rest of the planet (p. 15). There is evidence that the Bronze Age began in Southeast Asia (p. 17). Fuller's Dymaxion World Map is used to show the distribution of humanity over the Earth's surface. Over half the population lives in the regions watered by the Himalayan glaciers (p. 20).
Chapter 2 - Humans in Universe
Our knowledge of the spherical shape of the Earth is central to our understanding of ecology (p. 34). This knowledge probably originated in prehistoric times, was certainly known to the Ancient Greeks, but was then suppressed for centuries by organised religion because it was incompatible with the official story of a Heaven above and a Hell below (p. 43). There has been an evolution of religious ideas from those of the Egyptian pyramid-builders, whose ambition was to deliver a single individual, the pharaoh, into the afterlife, to the modern belief that everybody has a right to enjoy life on Earth (p. 51).
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Yes, nobody is going to produce or purchase a solarpanel with 3% efficiency when 20% is standard those days, its the essence of what Buckminster is saying.
Now, I don't care if the f@#in sw×÷is p@d0 jwz want to keep riding horses around their stinky farms that produce nothing of value, its not anyone's job to keep paying for it or maintain it for them for free.
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Electric Bikes anyone.... :D ::) ;D ;D
(https://media1.tenor.co/images/816d9d84886dd621f47c0ee0097e0141/tenor.gif?itemid=11862021&t=AAXDw3pe9BoK7CmQ3g9YrA)
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...still waiting for Derottone(a) to return... :(
If you found those last two responses written in a newspaper as quotes, you'd be hard pressed to make any sense of them. What's the point of doing that? It's not communication, just what is it? Where does the clear & concise guy wander off to? Let's get HIM back.
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In the UK, bicycles are supposed to follow the same road laws as other users regarding traffic lights etc so there's little benefit to using one over a moped other than running costs (tax/insurance etc).
Moped theft here is very high and (normal) bicycle theft is ridiculous - I've had 2 £1000+ mountain bikes stolen. My current cycle never leaves my sight when I take it out of the shed, which means I can't nip in to town with it. I know that the toe-rags will be off with it in seconds.
I'd love to put an electric rear hub on it but that just makes it more attractive to thieves.
That's unfortunate. I've heard about this issue, which is supposed to be especially acute in London.
Here in Chicago, it couldn't be more different. I have started riding my collection of old 3 speed "english racers", and these seem to be positively theft proof, I only occasionally lock one, in particularly exposed areas, but mostly rely on the general laziness of thieves, along with the relatively poor cosmetic condition of the paint to protect them. One method that seems to work, I'll flip the bike over and leave it upside down, on it's seat and handlebars, an old trick we learned as kids to prevent some other kid from jumping on your bike and riding away faster than you could run him down from behind.
Mopeds have never been officially recognized locally, they don't exist legally and this makes riding one quite awkward, in my view. They tend to be available used without titles, while the police want to look at them as motorcycles, which, like scooters, require registration.
Bicycles, on the other hand, are just generally ignored. No registration, no license, no insurance requirements, no restrictions, and this seems to apply equally to those equipped with the 66cc china "whizzer" engines, which can be had in kit form for about $120, complete. Cops just look the other way. We have laws on the books that let a bicyclist go through stop signs, and red lights under certain conditions. It's quite infuriating to the cage drivers. They will curse the first few times I re-pass them while they wait at the traffic light queus, but by the third or 4th time, they seem to accept it. I try to ride respectfully and safely. I'm in my 60s.
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Of course the ironic thing is the US which has plenty of oil is gradually going electric - whereas Australia with almost no local oil and an economy that will collapse in 6 week without continuous oil imports but able to make as much electricity as we want (coal power or green, we have the ability to generate plenty of both) is violently opposed to electric vehicles as "un-Australian" .
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Of course the ironic thing is the US which has plenty of oil is gradually going electric - whereas Australia with almost no local oil and an economy that will collapse in 6 week without continuous oil imports but able to make as much electricity as we want (coal power or green, we have the ability to generate plenty of both) is violently opposed to electric vehicles as "un-Australian" .
I'm not anti electric vehicles, however I doubt I would want to travel Australia in one. Now that travelling is restricted partially because of the CO2 reduction agenda its probably a non issue anyway. Those restrictions were apparently needed to promote the electric vehicles in a rather marxistic manner if you ask me. Now we are probably expected to love the "global warming" crowd. ::)
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This is what I expected in the 21st century!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2VRqJpQDlU
Also features briefly on here
https://youtu.be/qMOQJL7h42Q?t=440
Now, they're claiming
"0-60 2.5 SECONDS 124MPH 150 MILE RANGE"
http://ballisticcycles.com/
Of course, there's no mention of how much of our dirty money they want for their creation ::)
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Sails on a Motorcycle:
(https://www.chucksconnection.com/duma/duma04.jpg)
Though some people go the other way and add a motorcycle to their sailboat:
(https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201801/is-it-a-boat-is-it-a_1600x0w.jpg)
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There was a fellow who rode his 2012 Zero ZF9 from New York to South America during the winter of 2012. He somehow managed to get as far as southern Brazil before his chassis finally gave up the ghost. He then married a local girl and turned the Zero's batteries and power train into powering a house boat, which had solar panels on its roof to recharge the boat's batteries. The last I heard about the fellow was when he posted a photo on the Electric Motorcycle Forum of the houseboat floating along a large river. At the time he was considering writing a book or internet blog about his adventure, but (to my knowledge) he never did. :(
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Sounds like a decent application for some batteries and solar panels in the middle of nowhere. :D
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One of HD's first attempts at an e-bike. :o There's nothing you can't do with a little imagination. ;)
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One of HD's first attempts at an e-bike. :o There's nothing you can't do with a little imagination. ;)
https://www.indiatimes.com/technology/news/had-harley-davidson-listened-to-one-guy-they-d-have-had-an-electric-bike-40-years-ago-362572.html
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https://www.indiatimes.com/technology/news/had-harley-davidson-listened-to-one-guy-they-d-have-had-an-electric-bike-40-years-ago-362572.html
Very cool, thanks for posting that. The image I posted was taken at Wheels of Time museum some years ago. I stumbled on it today while looking for something else. I had no idea the bike anything more than a curiosity.
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Those 70's XLH Sportsters were not breathtakingly fast by any means but "top speed of 80 km/h and attain acceleration of 0 to 51 km/h in 5-6 seconds" is slow even for an XLH :D
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Those 70's XLH Sportsters were not breathtakingly fast by any means but "top speed of 80 km/h and attain acceleration of 0 to 51 km/h in 5-6 seconds" is slow even for an XLH :D
Yet HD could have developed something handed to them on a plate and had the jump on an entire industry ::)
Meh, HD left a bad taste in my mouth after the Buell.
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Yet HD could have developed something handed to them on a plate and had the jump on an entire industry.
Gustave Trouve beat Steve Fehr to the punch by about 100 years: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9512103/We-test-replica-Gustave-Trouves-1881-rechargeable-electric-vehicle.html
And Mike Corbin's "City Bike" had already been in production half a decade earlier. https://thevintagent.com/2018/08/23/the-current-mike-corbin-e-bike-pioneer/
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Quite a progress since than, like on everything, and still not good enough... ::)
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Gustave Trouve beat Steve Fehr to the punch by about 100 years: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9512103/We-test-replica-Gustave-Trouves-1881-rechargeable-electric-vehicle.html
And Mike Corbin's "City Bike" had already been in production half a decade earlier. https://thevintagent.com/2018/08/23/the-current-mike-corbin-e-bike-pioneer/
I had a ride on one of Corbin's first E-bikes. He tried to get our shop to sell them, and brought one by. It was unrefined with way to quick throttle response, but it was well made, no surprise there, and a blast to ride. My boss thought it was a dead end.... :(
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Like everything else mechanical, all progress is driven by materials science. Existing battery tech is fine for 100-150 mile casual jogs, there just isn't sufficient energy density there to equal petro fuel energy storage numbers. Both charging infrastructure and recharge times are lacking for distance travel. IMHO the better solution is to synthesize hydrocarbon fuels from reclaimed carbon and electrolyzed H2 rather that completely reinvent the transport infrastructure; that tech exists already. Hybrid vehicles to optimize energy recovery already exist and work very well indeed, two examples are gracing my driveway now.
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About 12 years ago, Brammo brought by one of their pre-production Enertia electric motorcycles for the weekend to the California BMW dealership in Mountain View, CA, in an attempt to sign them up as a Brammo dealer. The sales manager at the time told me that the bike didn't run well and eventually just died. So they told Brammo they were not interested in their product. After that experience they didn't want anything to do with electric motorcycles.
But in 2017 they did become an Energica dealer after the distributor of that brand told them that they wouldn't need to repair or service the bikes as the importer had a service facility just a few miles away. That made the deal jell as the shop didn't want to have to train any of their technicians to work on the complicated Italian electric motorcycles. The are still selling Energicas at their Livermore, CA, dealership.
The Enertias were later attempted to be sold by Best Buy, who helped to fund Brammo. Unfortunately, that didn't work out too well for Best Buy.
Later Brammo developed their freeway-capable Empulse model, which could hit 100 mph and had a 6-speed transmission. After a few years they sold the Empulse to Polaris, who folded the bike into their Victory brand. Two years later they dropped Victory and the Empulse electric motorcycle went down the tube, also. The latest news is that Polaris will be using Zero motors, batteries and power train technology in their off-road 4-wheel vehicles.
Attached are two photos of the Enertia and two photos of the Italian Energica bikes that I took at California BMW in 2017.
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Like everything else mechanical, all progress is driven by materials science. Existing battery tech is fine for 100-150 mile casual jogs, there just isn't sufficient energy density there to equal petro fuel energy storage numbers. Both charging infrastructure and recharge times are lacking for distance travel. IMHO the better solution is to synthesize hydrocarbon fuels from reclaimed carbon and electrolyzed H2 rather that completely reinvent the transport infrastructure; that tech exists already. Hybrid vehicles to optimize energy recovery already exist and work very well indeed, two examples are gracing my driveway now.
The industry says that if you take electricity which is made from renewable sources a battery is still the best option you may have if you wish to use the grid as a power source.
Steam engines powered by renewable forest wood might make a comeback if you were to implement the H2 synthetic fuels solution to a large scale.
I've read recently that they run H2 busses in Wuppertal with great success, the birthplace of Friedrich Engels. ::)
I agree though since "battery" is the "best" option it "must" be fought to dead since "Wemily" could feel neglected.
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@ #127:
" The industry says that if you take electricity which is made from renewable sources a battery is still the best option you may have if you wish to use the grid as a power source. " True enough if the idea is to sell batteries for storage. Batteries are poorly suited for Utility grade energy storage needs, but if you want to maximize Capital Money spending, they're great.
The idea is to create storable, high-energy-density transportable fuel. Efficiency is a bit of a misnomer here, as the O&M on PV is almost nothing & sunlight is "free". Off peak renewables are ideal source to use for storage, as even at 40% round trip efficiencies, the end product is much more valuable (& profitable) than just selling your renewable energy into an off-peak market. Liquid hydrocarbons are what our society is geared up for, and if you are making them with captured carbon they are by definition "renewable".
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I agree that it would be a fine solution to the end customer, the tough part might be to come up with a process that can compete with the battery cost or better beat it, electricity cost itself is low.
Than there is a question if electric power is needed to produce co2 neutral fuel at all.
https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-11/kift-hfn112619.php
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Here is a company that is developing lithium metal batteries. The technology looks interesting, but also expensive and it will be awhile before we see it in consumer products like autos. The company is directing their batteries toward electric aircraft as they feel that market can support their high prices and will appreciate the power density of lithium metal batteries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ1etjdsZAg
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The clip has the swedish northvolt representative in it, it screams - Vasa ship ahead, I want my tax money back.
When Swedish talk sustainability and zero co2 they mean ->
Sustainability-> sustainable free cash flowing in their pockets.
zero CO2 -> zero contribution to mankind or the market.
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In the latest electric motorcycle news, Energica has developed a new drive motor that will be installed on their bikes soon. Here is a link to the article and press release: https://electricmotorcycles.news/emce-the-new-electric-motor-of-energica-motor-company/
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Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere:
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/electric-motorcycle-concept-giant-hole-180000270.html (https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/electric-motorcycle-concept-giant-hole-180000270.html)
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/RKr9qw.BSN81jOgwzEiy7A--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTUzOS41MjtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/BuwKOIusyuMtPGN93ZptyA--~B/aD01NjI7dz0xMDAwO2FwcGlkPXl0YWNoeW9u/https://media.zenfs.com/en/robb_report_967/1ba6cc25bba13de88286d38e17a9708c)
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Here is a link to an article regarding BMW's latest electric scooter, the CE 04. I wonder if that seat is as hard as it looks? ::) The automatically-applied parking brake that functions when the side stand is deployed is a good idea. The TFT instrument display screen is a nice touch. At 504 pounds, it certainly is no lightweight. And of course, being a BMW there will be extra-cost factory features, such as are on the "Premium" version that will set you back an additional $1,650 over the base price of $11,795 in the U.S.
https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/2022-bmw-ce-04-first-look.html
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$20k for a 500lb moped :o :o :o
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$20k for a 500lb moped :o :o :o
Well, more like $13,500 with the Premium Package. Even when you add to that transportation fees, taxes and other governmental fees, you will likely be under $15,000. Still, not quite as good a deal as an Asian ICE around-town scooter, that will sell for around $4K and have about the same performance and a longer range on a full tank of gas.
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Still, not quite as good a deal as an Asian ICE around-town scooter, that will sell for around $4K and have about the same performance and a longer range on a full tank of gas.
...and doesn't attract BMW servicing costs ;)
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...and doesn't attract BMW servicing costs ;)
...I don't know what BMW charges since I usually service my vehicles myself and rarely owned a factory new vehicle. However the service cost and intensity on the UCE feels rather high, probably the 650 fairs better in that department.
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...I don't know what BMW charges since I usually service my vehicles myself and rarely owned a factory new vehicle. However the service cost and intensity on the UCE feels rather high, probably the 650 fairs better in that department.
Around here, BMW dealers are charging about $200 an hour. But that is only a guess as they price their services by the lump sum and don't break out the labor by the hour, only the parts used are listed because they have to charge sales tax on each new part. A typical BMW service takes about 3-4 hours (claimed, although I have seen my motorcycle leave the shop in half that time) and BMW wants most parts removed to be replaced with new ones, like bolts, screws and gaskets.
I have no idea what is involved in servicing their electric scooters, but my Zero has only been back to the dealer once and that was for the 600-mile check up to make sure everything was properly assembled and adjusted at the factory. Since then I have replaced tires and brake pads myself and that is about it. :)
Here is the official BMW factory spin about their new scooter. What an ugly mother. I bet it is banned in Italy as being offensive to Italian senses. And what is up with that orange fly screen? ::) https://electricmotorcycles.news/the-new-bmw-ce-04-unveiled/
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It looks weird, I don't know what's up with the mfrg's, maybe they are having hard time to come up with a designs that don't look alike?
The orange colour windscreen would bug me the least though.
https://www.zigwheels.com/news-features/news/novus-35000-electric-motorcycle-showcased-at-ces/32725/
....this one looks better, price seems better too.
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It looks weird, I don't know what's up with the mfrg's, maybe they are having hard time to come up with a designs that don't look alike?
The orange colour windscreen would bug me the least though.
https://www.zigwheels.com/news-features/news/novus-35000-electric-motorcycle-showcased-at-ces/32725/
....this one looks better, price seems better too.
I don't know about that. ??? When I see a hole I want to fill it. ;D
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These mileage claims need testing properly.
100km from full charge... at what speed?
100km/h... for how long?
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https://www.funbikes.co.uk/p7836_funbikes-harley-fat-boy-red-road-legal-electric-scooter
"optimum range is circa 35 miles, the speed is approx. 30 mph and with a maximum rider weight of 200kg"
£1250
If that price came down to £999 I'd seriously consider one. I weight less than 70kg with all my gear on which gives me over 100kg carrying capacity!
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I don't know about that. ??? When I see a hole I want to fill it. ;D
Move to Sweden, you won´t succeed to plug the holes. ;)
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Speaking of E-bikes, I just finished reading the latest issue of Popular Mechanics magazine and they featured a Specialized mountain electric pedal-assist bike as a product that impressed them. What impressed me was the $13,000 price tag. ::)
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After seeing that cute red scoot at £1250, I thought about converting my really low use mountain bike.
Then thought "Nope"!
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After seeing that cute red scoot at £1250, I thought about converting my really low use mountain bike.
Then thought "Nope"!
You can buy a kit that is complete, except for the battery, for considerably less money. I got a 1000w, 48V wheel kit recently for about $200. The battery set me back another $140. I am hoping to cobble this kit onto an old cantilever framed cruiser, but there will definitely be some file work, some spreading of steel stays, and perhaps even a bit of welding involved.
Dropout and fork width and axle diameters of 50 years ago didn't anticipate E-bike developments. Modern mountain bikes are quite a bit easier, since the latest ones are generally designed to accommodate disc brakes and wide range derailleur hubs. I have read that all that may be required is some boring out and filing of the fork or rear dropouts, and the rest is bolt-on.
Privately owned E-bicycles are starting to show up on northwest side Chicago streets this summer as relatively common sights. Probably much more common in the downtown areas, I seldom visit, where parking is largely in high rise structures or underground and extremely expensive, on the order of $8/hr or $25/day. Avoiding that expense alone would pay for a nice bicycle pretty quickly, not even considering gas, insurance, registration and the rest.
Divy bike, our preferred local bicycle rental source, with a city contract and electronic bike vending stations for human and electric powered bikes in every neighborhood, started operating E-bicycles at least a year ago, and those are a very common sight indeed. These are step through framed, heavy duty, very homely things.
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I got a 1000w, 48V wheel kit recently for about $200. The battery set me back another $140. I am hoping to cobble this kit onto
Wow! That's a big price difference!
I thought you were going to cobble it on to the RE fpr a second ;D
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Wow! That's a big price difference!
I thought you were going to cobble it on to the RE fpr a second ;D
Don't you worry, people are already doing that:
(https://electriccycle.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/lr-img_1867.jpg)
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Don't you worry, people are already doing that:
(https://electriccycle.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/lr-img_1867.jpg)
That looks much better than this one
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There is something about the design of that battery enclosure of that Photon that creeps me out. :o
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There is something about the design of that battery enclosure of that Photon that creeps me out. :o
It does kind of look like it was influenced by the work of H.R. Giger. I think it's the ribs?
https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-nightmarish-works-hr-giger-artist-alien
Perhaps more effective than flat black and chrome skulls, in demonstrating how badass one is?
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It does kind of look like it was influenced by the work of H.R. Giger. I think it's the ribs?
https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-nightmarish-works-hr-giger-artist-alien
Perhaps more effective than flat black and chrome skulls, in demonstrating how badass one is?
There was something creepy about it that I couldn't put my finger on, but you nailed it. It's what Alien would ride, or maybe what Ripley would use to chase him down. ;D
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Wow! That's a big price difference!
Mid-motor is what the E-bicycle industry is calling a motor located adjacent to the crank. This setup is what we see on most E-motos, except for the lowest priced, and has the benefit of operating through the machine's gearing at the rear hub. Mid motors include overrunning clutches operating both directions, if you pedal you don't drive the motor, and the motor can drive the sprocket without driving the rider's pedal crank. Mid motors are also quite a bit more expensive, starting around $400, from what I've found.
Hub motors can be had for considerably less, like the one in the kit I mentioned. Hub motors have the disadvantage of being forced to operate at the speed of the driven wheel, which considerably limits power output at low rpms, like when hill climbing.
There is a 3rd configuration, which incorporates planetary gearing into the hub motor, so the motor runs at a fixed ratio to, but higher rpm than, the wheel. These are a decent compromise of cost vs. power output in my opinion. I've found geared hub motors available for as little as $120, bare, without the rest of the required kit.
All varieties use 3 phase controllers to chop the DC into pulses driving 3 sets of coils. The very best of these create shaped signals, which increases efficiency and reduces noise and heat. Run of the mill controllers output square wave shaped pulses.
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You guys clearly missed the motorcycle scene in the movie where the alien does the whole Tom Cruise motor cycle/Top Gun thing ...
(https://i.imgur.com/TogR5wf.jpg)
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You guys clearly missed the motorcycle scene in the movie where the alien does the whole Tom Cruise motor cycle/Top Gun thing ...
(https://i.imgur.com/TogR5wf.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Motorcycle.com has just reviewed Zero's revised 2022 FXE electric motorcycle. (Their cheapest and lightest model - and some people say the most fun to ride.) I think they did a nice job with the BNG and styling compared with the previous years' versions: https://www.motorcycle.com/features/2022-zero-fxe-review-first-ride.html
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Long Way Home has a few funny words to say about BMW's new CE 04 electric scooter, including that they will no longer be building gas-powered scooters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jenhOJaea98
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BMW did not succeed on the gas powered scooter market in the past and won't likely in the future. Too much premium think in that company. Scooter customers want an affordable transportation in the first place not an "expensive" hobby which motorcycling is turning into, what a great success of our legislators.
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I'm little bit war-footed towards the general idea of premium. A rolex submariner is premium not because it's got an incredible amount of functionality but because it's brand heritage, small amount of quality components and is a relatively precise tool to measure time although it will not stand thr competition with a quartz watch ever. Sometimes the "no date" versions of it are considered even more premium. Why can't it be with motorcycles little bit similar. :o
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The more I read about Storm Sondors and the company he started just a few years ago, the more impressed I am with their products, and their business model. This is one instance where a company has turned modest kickstart capital into real value for their customers. Their bikes are competitively priced, constantly being improved, attractively styled, and get good reviews from their customers and industry reviewers. Of greatest interest to me, their products offer innovative engineering.
Have a look at the CAST aluminum frame that will be used on the upcoming Sondors Metacycle: https://electrek.co/2021/06/23/closer-look-a-single-piece-of-aluminum-makes-up-sondors-metacycle-electric-motorcycle-frame/
If you are interested, I started a thread on the Sondors Metacycle, which is now just a few months from being in customers hands. https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=30235.0
The one compromise that I'm not crazy about, ... this machine uses a hub motor. In theory the hub motor saves a bit of weight by eliminating redundant structure, but I suspect this was done more to achieve the price point, than for any engineering reason. It does keep the overall CG nice and low. The battery can live in the lowest part of the frame.
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Nice website -
https://sondorsx.com/pages/metacycle
The "chat" responder says the hub motor offers regenerative braking/charging, so that is a plus for the hilly terrain crowd. A small trailer with a Honda EU2000 generator and 5 gallons of gas would take you camping or on a several days outing. A 200W PV panel with maybe a 300W inverter wouldn't hurt and would fit on a small trailer too. No word yet on the "pony" battery cost, but possibly in the neighborhood of $1000?
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A small trailer with a Honda EU2000 generator and 5 gallons of gas would take you camping or on a several days outing. A 200W PV panel with maybe a 300W inverter wouldn't hurt and would fit on a small trailer too.
My buddy camps like that. His F-150 is so packed out, that he has to tie stuff on top of the tonneau cover, he was telling me last night that he just added a house battery system, with dedicated inverter and automatic charging relay. His camping stuff is in dedicated tupperware bins, ready to go camping at a moments notice. I've looked into these on occasion, there's stuff in there that looks like it hasn't been pulled out since Carter was president.
I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I'd be more likely to carry a 30 foot extension cord, camp on the spot right next to the stinky bathhouse, and run my extension cord through the bathroom window at night for my next days charge.
No word yet on the "pony" battery cost, but possibly in the neighborhood of $1000?
Sondors makes a nice, removable "triangle" pack for some of their E-bicycles, so I'm sure they will come up with a nicely designed and engineered package, eventually. The Metacycle is a 72volt system. Right now, $1000 would buy you about 6.5 Kw hours of these generic, 36V 30 Ah batteries, https://www.ebay.com/itm/393182339879, which is 150% of the capacity the machine comes with.
Personally, I'd be disinclined to shell out for that add-on, the 80 miles of claimed stock range is a week and a halves worth of riding for me. I ride almost everyday, but I ride more than 100 miles in one day only once every 3 years. I think there are a LOT more folks like me, than there are Iron Butt riders, they just don't join forums to talk about what they use to get to work and the grocery store. It would be like joining a forum to talk about your stove or your clock-radio.
This little scoot is no touring machine. In my view, no E-vehicle is, .... yet. Even if they never are, they can still manage probably 80%+ of the world's transportation needs. And with increasing urbanization, that number goes up, every day.
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You think gas prices are high? Check out the kWh prices on this charging station somewhere in Scotland. Two pounds per kWh for the first 3 hours and then 10 pounds per kWh after three hours. :o I thought I had high electric power costs at home at 26 cents per kWh.
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https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/cars/electric-cars-how-charge-them-how-much-it-costs-and-how-long-it-takes-2900371
" In Scotland, ChargePlace Scotland offers unlimited free public charging for a flat £20 annual payment. "
https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/service/electric-vehicles-and-chargeplace-scotland/
" the average electric vehicle (EV) will cost around 3-5p a mile to run, compared to 16-18p a mile for the average conventional vehicle fuel cost "
...and something for the EV disaffected... :o ;D
https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/plug-in-pay-out-give-updrivers-say-cost-is-the-biggest-barrier-to-opting-for-a-zero-emissions-car/
xx
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You think gas prices are high? Check out the kWh prices on this charging station somewhere in Scotland. Two pounds per kWh for the first 3 hours and then 10 pounds per kWh after three hours. :o I thought I had high electric power costs at home at 26 cents per kWh.
One wonders if that is a Scotsman's attempt at a humorous meme? I know it's not allowed to make these sorts of jokes any more, but aren't those folks known for their frugality?
This article, published about a year ago, suggests prices that are quite a bit more reasonable, and has some traceable provenance: https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/cars/electric-cars-how-charge-them-how-much-it-costs-and-how-long-it-takes-2900371
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I know it's not allowed to make these sorts of jokes any more, but aren't those folks known for their frugality?
The dour frugal Scot stereotype has a religious base. The Scottish Presbyterian Church was Calvinist and to some extent followed supralapsarianism, the belief that the "chosen" who will eventually be saved are predestined for salvation. In terms of this belief you cannot actually know for sure you are among the chosen however there are certain sure signs you are NOT for example a lavish lifestyle is a sure sign you are not chosen.
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The dour frugal Scot stereotype has a religious base. The Scottish Presbyterian Church was Calvinist and to some extent followed supralapsarianism, the belief that the "chosen" who will eventually be saved are predestined for salvation. In terms of this belief you cannot actually know for sure you are among the chosen however there are certain sure signs you are NOT for example a lavish lifestyle is a sure sign you are not chosen.
That's interesting. So, would you consider this the diametric opposite of "Prosperity Theology", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
or, were supralapsarians encouraged to accumulate wealth as long as they saved their money, and did not spend conspicuously?
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That's interesting. So, would you consider this the diametric opposite of "Prosperity Theology", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
or, were supralapsarians encouraged to accumulate wealth as long as they saved their money, and did not spend conspicuously?
There are even claims it drove the Industrial Revolution. Calvinist/Supralapsarian views combined with the Protestant Work Ethic meant people were working hard and making money but were left with with no acceptable way to spend that money as a Calvinist, other than reinvest it back into their business, or possibly start a new one. Upgrading to a lavish personal house or country estate was frowned upon, building new cargo ships, and creating new shops and factories with your money was not.
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That's a ludicrous economic theory to say the least.
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That's a ludicrous economic theory to say the least.
Maybe (though it is more Sociology than Economics) I personally do not necessarily support it but it has been around for a long while.
Max Weber in Die protestantische Ethik und der Geist des Kapitalismus talked about it as early as 1904.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism
The idea still has some academic credibility even today:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316747686_Calvinism_Huguenots_and_the_Industrial_Revolution
Weber's ideas were seem as a direct counter to Marx's claim that only economics could form a basis for social change.
(https://cdn.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Weber1.jpg)
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And I thought capitalism has been there in the old Egypt already since the Pharao has been advised by Joseph to overproduce and save little bit for the rainy day.
Lot of rainy days recently in Germany, fortunately the infrastructure is not yet entirely electric since the areas hit are without electric power. Diesel trucks come for the rescue.
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Lot of rainy days recently in Germany, fortunately the infrastructure is not yet entirely electric since the areas hit are without electric power. Diesel trucks come for the rescue.
I was just thinking that while watching the news. Is an EV going ti cope with being drowned? An ICE just usually needs it's plugs taken out and spun over. Even if the EV does cope, will the chargers still be functional?
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Someone will come up with a solution, i'm sure.
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Someone will come up with a solution, i'm sure.
Such as hot air power emanating from politicians? Surely an exhaustible resource. ;D
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I'm going right off EV's... :o
https://hackaday.com/2021/07/16/repair-hack-saves-tesla-owner-from-massive-bill/
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I should have typed an "inexhaustible" supply of hot air. :-[
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I should have typed an "inexhaustible" supply of hot air. :-[
Well you can open a shop than and sell fresh air in a can. ;D
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I'm going right off EV's... :o
https://hackaday.com/2021/07/16/repair-hack-saves-tesla-owner-from-massive-bill/
Being as they choose affiliation with Royal Enfield, I'm guessing that most members of this forum support Right to Repair as a concept. I've read that the EU has passed and is considering strengthening laws requiring manufacturers to supply spare parts and repair information for a period of up to 10 years on appliances and electronics.
And, just a week ago, as part of Executive Order 14036, "Promoting Competition in the American Economy", among other stipulations, President Biden instructed the FTC to craft rules to prevent manufacturers from preventing repairs performed by owners. This seems like a step in the right direction. Do you guys remember Sam's Photofact?
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This sounds really good. I can't wait to see the members of the eu commission to repair and maintain their vehicles themselves. ;D
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Being as they choose affiliation with Royal Enfield, I'm guessing that most members of this forum support Right to Repair as a concept. I've read that the EU has passed and is considering strengthening laws requiring manufacturers to supply spare parts and repair information for a period of up to 10 years on appliances and electronics.
And, just a week ago, as part of Executive Order 14036, "Promoting Competition in the American Economy", among other stipulations, President Biden instructed the FTC to craft rules to prevent manufacturers from preventing repairs performed by owners. This seems like a step in the right direction. Do you guys remember Sam's Photofact?
The right to repair is a huge issue in the farm/construction/commercial fishing and trucking industries. You can magine the repercussions if a farmer's combine goes down during harvest or a fishing boat loses it's refridgeration and it can't be quickly and easily reparied. I give Biden credit for addressing the issue, it needs a solution.
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+ 1 to that! Industry has no shame in preventing you from doing for yourself if they can make a bigger management bonus for themselves. The seed folks have really leaned hard on farmers growing, harvesting & planting their own seed. To not be able to repair your own hardware is unconscionable for many reasons. Go Joe!
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+ 1 to that! Industry has no shame in preventing you from doing for yourself if they can make a bigger management bonus for themselves. The seed folks have really leaned hard on farmers growing, harvesting & planting their own seed. To not be able to repair your own hardware is unconscionable for many reasons. Go Joe!
+1 ;D
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Solar panels in the wing and two e-bikes, one slung under each of the wings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dqTwUuKEM
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Solar panels in the wing and two e-bikes, one slung under each of the wings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dqTwUuKEM
That thing is going to be an air tank, no wonder he needs 780ci engine, with what 1000hp? :D
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That thing is going to be an air tank, no wonder he needs 780ci engine, with what 1000hp? :D
Only about 800 with the NO2 from memory :D
Meanwhile there are other ways to avoid needing fossil fuels ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RiYXI1Tfu4
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South of Barstow, Cal., just outside Newberry springs is a belt conveyor that delivers crushed cinder to the ATSF/BNSF for rail bed from the top of a nearby small cindercone. The beltway conveyor motors are used as inductive generators, the weight of the cinder at the top of the nearby mountain driving the generation process. Hydropower with rocks... :o ;D
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So you suggesting to build rope ways on the Mt. Everest that power generators and keep flattening the earth. ;D ;D ;D
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So you suggesting to build rope ways on the Mt. Everest that power generators and keep flattening the earth. ;D ;D ;D
Well according to some it is already flat.
If you shipped ice down Everest you could sell it and generate power at the same time.
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Well according to some it is already flat.
If you shipped ice down Everest you could sell it and generate power at the same time.
I like the idea, and fresh Everest Ice Tea, Lemonade and brew Mt. Everest beer with it. Where are the sponsors. ;D
The work on the flat earth might prove of significant importance to mankind. ::) ;D ;D
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Ship ICE down Everest? No way - use the weight of that endless stream of "adventure climbers" that have bought a Walmart-esque adventure ticket to stand atop the mighty peak for 15 seconds of fame. Add all the trash & excrement to the downhill load and you'd have some real megawatt potential there.
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Ship ICE down Everest? No way - use the weight of that endless stream of "adventure climbers" that have bought a Walmart-esque adventure ticket to stand atop the mighty peak for 15 seconds of fame. Add all the trash & excrement to the downhill load and you'd have some real megawatt potential there.
That could work, the stream won't ever stopp. Wanting to stop that would be like wanting the IOM TT to stopp.
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Here are two YouTube videos published by a longtime electric motorcycle rider of the two test rides that he took at the 2021 Northern California Motorcycle Show that was held at the Sears Point Raceway, north of San Francisco last weekend.
The first one is of his ride on the new Zero FXE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbew-eR1YMw
And this longer one is of his ride on a new LiveWire One: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_83m3BeshUQ
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzFT5ndMZ_Q
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This looks like an interesting concept for swapping electric motorcycle batteries by a company in Brazil. They appear to have their battery swap station located in front of an existing gas station, which is likely a more secure and convenient location than something just sitting along side of a roadway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7EbjSGgdXk&t=8s
More information here: https://electricmotorcycles.news/origems-mission-is-to-accelerate-and-democratize-the-access-to-electric-mobility-in-latin-america/
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp7JcmwKQcU
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I see a lucrative possibility for computer savvy "midnite auto" boys to clean up here reselling pricey "lost" batteries to desperate riders and gas station operators after the machines/vendors dispensing slot RFID PLCs get convinced that "it's time for a swap" & open up at 3AM. Or maybe just ransomwaring your bike so you're stuck with the battery you have until a gratuity happens. There is the other issue of the separate, permanent onboard servo battery that operates the "open sesame" portal, it rather has to always work. It's entirely possible for things to become too complex. Everything can work well if we all just play nice & get along, but...being Brazil...isn't it easier to just have an alcohol fueled, 12:1 CR, GC125 with a 20L tank, or maybe a rack for a 5 gallon bottle of propane? No reliance on voodoo handshaking electronics and maybe a 600 Km. range, no $1000 lithium battery setting there to tempt the unscrupulous.
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I see a lucrative possibility for computer savvy "midnite auto" boys to clean up here reselling pricey "lost" batteries to desperate riders and gas station operators after the machines/vendors dispensing slot RFID PLCs get convinced that "it's time for a swap" & open up at 3AM. Or maybe just ransomwaring your bike so you're stuck with the battery you have until a gratuity happens. There is the other issue of the separate, permanent onboard servo battery that operates the "open sesame" portal, it rather has to always work. It's entirely possible for things to become too complex. Everything can work well if we all just play nice & get along, but...being Brazil...isn't it easier to just have an alcohol fueled, 12:1 CR, GC125 with a 20L tank, or maybe a rack for a 5 gallon bottle of propane? No reliance on voodoo handshaking electronics and maybe a 600 Km. range, no $1000 lithium battery setting there to tempt the unscrupulous.
$1000? Where can you get an EV-capable battery for that low a price? $3K would be more like it in a package like is shown in that video. What I gleaned from reading the article is that the batteries would be leased to the owners of the bikes - if not the entire motorcycle. I just liked watching the way the system worked, But that does not mean that I would want to invest in one, or the company, for that matter. ;)
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$1000? Where can you get an EV-capable battery for that low a price?
Do hybrid batteries count?
https://www.greentecauto.com/hybrid-battery/toyota-hybrids/prius-hybrid-batteries/prius-2004-2009/toyota-prius-gen-2
Something like this would make for quite a long range E-scooter, or golf cart, I'm thinking?
My brother told me that some guys he worked with, ( he's an EE for a company that makes space satellite communications equipment), were taking hybrids, and converting them to pure EVs some years ago. As I recall he told me they would add a few more battery packs, and override whatever gadget decides when it's appropriate to start the engine. Perhaps this was just for around town use. I wasn't very interested at the time.
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@ 198, R230: Being worth $3000 in Brazil might get you stuck in a bamboo cage in the foothills waiting for ransom money from your family!
A Rodney Dangerfield bit:
"I got kidnapped; they cut off the tip of my little finger and sent it to my Father. My Father says "I need more proof""...
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@ 198, R230: Being worth $3000 in Brazil might get you stuck in a bamboo cage in the foothills waiting for ransom money from your family!
A Rodney Dangerfield bit:
"I got kidnapped; they cut off the tip of my little finger and sent it to my Father. My Father says "I need more proof""...
;D
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https://www.ultraviolette.com/f77.html
ULTRAVIOLETTE
We live by design, technology and user experience.
We are mavericks from across aerospace, automotive engineering and consumer electronics. Our sole mission in life - to redefine mobility.
“Almost there” doesn’t excite us.
Fuel Type:Electric
Range:130-150 km/charge
Battery Type:Lithium-ion
Charging Time:NA
Emission Type:NA
Max Torque:90 Nm / 450 Nm
(Motor)Max Power:33.9 PS @ 2250 rpm
Top Speed:NA
ABS:Dual Channel
https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/electric-vehicles/ultraviolette-automotive-indian-ev-start-up-aims-to-take-on-global-premium-bikes/2306146/?utm_source=Taboola_Recirculation&utm_medium=RC&utm_campaign=FE
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If companies want to produce electric bikes they need to hit a search engine for drawings of;
Akira
Bloodrunners
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Let's hope e-bikes have better batteries than Chevy Bolts. :'(
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Likely 90% are OK, so it looks like it's time to head down to the Chevy dealer and see if I can get a pickup load of "repairable discards" for a home made "powerwall"....heh heh heh... 8)
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I just updated the firmware of my Zero electric motorcycle. No need to visit my dealer (which I only did once for the 600-mile checkup). All I need to do is to turn on my bike, hit the Zero app installed on my cell phone and start the firmware download via the internet and my home computer. 20 minutes later I have the latest firmware update installed in my bike. While the process is going on, the bike's display screen flashes on and off quickly. Attached are photos of the app during the download and the screen during the download that is flashing all of the possible characters on the display.
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https://m-global.davincimotor.com/
Another eBike called DC100 with decent performance although as with any eBike the esthetics of it are more impressive than the tech behind it. Interesting to see though that they apparently get away with an hub motor that must be a huge chunk of unsprung mass in such an performance bike.
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I'm trying to think of 2 uglier motorbikes ???
Nope.
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Here is a press release for the BMW CE 02 concept motorbike. It looks like it will be plant-based (scroll down to near the bottom of the page for pictures of the rider and his BMW accessory backpack). https://thepack.news/bmw-motorrad-concept-ce-02/
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Looks like the front & rear wheels might possibly interchange, like an older Vespa did. Handy feature for basic transport.
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I think it might be BMW's concept of an electric Honda Grom for use in urban environments by Generation Z (18-24 years old) customers. Needless to say they will have to bring it to market at a more reasonable price than is typical for the company if they want to attract that crowd. BTW, their model is riding the 02 with a big plant stuck in a backpack that extends over his head (the plant, not the backpack). The perfect way to carry your new pot plant around town. ;)
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It could be that the price tag is part of the affluent hipster appeal.
"if you can pot plants, why can't you plant pot?"
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And the BMW Isetta look-alike as electric version. This might be something for the inhabitants of Paris.
https://www.tuvie.com/microlino-reveals-microlino-2-0-and-microletta-concept-for-future-urban-mobility/
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Here is a press release for the BMW CE 02 concept motorbike. It looks like it will be plant-based
(In best Crocodile Dundee imitation) "That's not a plant based motorbike! This is a PLANT based motorbike!"
https://i.natgeofe.com/n/cce5173e-c141-4f76-966a-59e8bce459a5/og_mf_rebel_riders_ng_0006_16x9.jpg?w=1200
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First it was Kudlow whinging about having to drink "plant based beer", then I read an advert last night claiming they were selling "plant based bread". At least your photo showed a fellow able to creatively re-task old scooter parts, that indicates a level of intellect far above what I'm seeing from the Alt-right media and ads in general.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/26/trump-larry-kudlow-biden-plant-based-beer
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(In best Crocodile Dundee imitation) "That's not a plant based motorbike! This is a PLANT based motorbike!"
https://i.natgeofe.com/n/cce5173e-c141-4f76-966a-59e8bce459a5/og_mf_rebel_riders_ng_0006_16x9.jpg?w=1200
What do you know? That seat actually looks more uncomfortable than the one on the BMW CE 02. :o
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What do you know? That seat actually looks more uncomfortable than the one on the BMW CE 02. :o
That Vespa custom was a one off. Another useful bike, from a plant based source, but that is produced in numbers that will likely dwarf the electric BMW's future production, is the Chukudu, of the Congo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4E8K1mh7js
Not motor powered, and very low emissions!
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Now THAT's some serious HOME GROWN! :o
Add a hub motor and you'd be set! Hipsters will be beating a path to import them, along with those UN hand cranked laptops.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17233946/olpcs-100-laptop-education-where-is-it-now
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Now THAT's some serious HOME GROWN! :o
Add a hub motor and you'd be set! Hipsters will be beating a path to import them, along with those UN hand cranked laptops.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17233946/olpcs-100-laptop-education-where-is-it-now
Wow, that computer, awesome. When will they put a crank to mobile phones.
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After a recent trip to the local Senior Center, I can see there's PLENTY of cranks on mobile phones already! ;D
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First it was Kudlow whinging about having to drink "plant based beer", then I read an advert last night claiming they were selling "plant based bread". At least your photo showed a fellow able to creatively re-task old scooter parts, that indicates a level of intellect far above what I'm seeing from the Alt-right media and ads in general.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/26/trump-larry-kudlow-biden-plant-based-beer
Well proper beer is made from coal by products not hops and stuff, we all know that.
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https://www.cartoq.com/in-2-years-india-will-be-world-leader-in-electric-vehicles-transport-minister-nitin-gadkari/amp/
Anything is possible in India, i totally believe it.
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Are you ready for the Pocket Rocket? Just don't expect to go very far or very fast on your Rocket.
https://thepack.news/pocket-rocket-from-sol-motors-is-now-ready-for-pre-orders/
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March 6, 2021 Review:
https://gomotoriders.com/electric-motorcycle-pocket-rocket-by-sol-motors/
The Pocket Rocket also comes with some amazing specifications. As there are two models of this electric motorcycle, one is the standard model while the other is a go-faster model called Pocket Rocket S.
The Pocket Rocket belongs in the city commuter vehicle category as it reaches a speed of 31-50 mph, while the top speed of the Pocket Rocket S is 50-80 km/h which puts it in between a city vehicle and a motorcycle capable of highway speeds.
The Pocket Rocket S comes with a 6 kW (8 hp) motor, while the lower speed model has a 4 kW (5.4 hp) model. Both of the models have a 150 Nm (111 ft-lbs) of torque. Moreover, both models feature large street tires, hydraulic disc brakes which are lightweight, and LED lighting into the main frame tube. of the models can be connected with an Android and iOS app. Hence, the rider can use their phone as an instrument display. The Pocket Rocket models aren’t available yet but its price is estimated to be around €5,200 and €6,500.
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Are you ready for the Pocket Rocket? Just don't expect to go very far or very fast on your Rocket.
https://thepack.news/pocket-rocket-from-sol-motors-is-now-ready-for-pre-orders/
Finally something has come along to compete with the styling of the CAKE machines!
https://ridecake.com/en/
And priced competitively also, at just under $7000 with today's exchange rates, vs $7500 for the Cake Ossa Lite. The Ossa does have the desirable mid motor configuration though.
I still favor the $5000, Sondors Metacycle. Despite the fact that they have announced delivery delays, I think it is the superior vehicle, with superior specs.
https://www.rideapart.com/news/533903/sondors-metacycle-delay-q4-2021/
https://electrek.co/2021/08/22/5000-sondors-metacycle-electric-motorcycle-in-durability-testing-ahead-of-deliveries/
Sondors has had a proven track record of delivering value priced E-bikes from their crowd funded origins.
And then, there is the styling. On the Sondors, I wouldn't feel quite so much like I need to be wearing a costume. Inspector Gadget, perhaps?
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Ugly. Ugly. Ugly.
Whilst 111ft/lbs of torque would be great fun, staring at any of these bikes would break my heart.
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Well, it does look more like a mobile pipe bomb than a rocket. ;)
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The Sondors doesn't look all that bad. I wouldn't go for a bike with a hub motor however ever, although it might be ok on a nice new tarmac road without potholes. Sure on such perfect roads maybe suspension may not be needed at all.
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I'm thinking at 35 - 45 MPH the hub motors unsprung weight isn't a real big issue. The elimination of extra moving bits is a plus for 95% of the potential users.
For my money, a 3 or 4 wheel, preferably somewhat weather enclosed transport pod would be more useful. And then there's this:
https://www.swincar.net/details-swincar+tilting+4-wheel-drive+spider+car+makes+light+work+of+bizarre+terrain-44.html
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I'm thinking at 35 - 45 MPH the hub motors unsprung weight isn't a real big issue. The elimination of extra moving bits is a plus for 95% of the potential users.
For my money, a 3 or 4 wheel, preferably somewhat weather enclosed transport pod would be more useful. And then there's this:
https://www.swincar.net/details-swincar+tilting+4-wheel-drive+spider+car+makes+light+work+of+bizarre+terrain-44.html
It's probably not an issue when it comes to riding dynamics, if you hit a pothole though even at 45mph it's going to be hard on the spokes in the wheel and the wheel bearing. But than maybe the thing is not supposed to last very long anyway.
From a manufacturer perspective the best bike might be that one that goes to the yard directly from the factory and the customer is happy about it and purchases the next one anyway.
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So were the rigid "hardtails" of the 30's & 40's cursed with constantly collapsing wheels? I think a firm jolt up the spine a time or two made for a much more observant rider.
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So were the rigid "hardtails" of the 30's & 40's cursed with constantly collapsing wheels? I think a firm jolt up the spine a time or two made for a much more observant rider.
Haven't been around, so can't say for sure, however if they had wheels similar to my GT than you would definitely need to replace a spoke or two most probably after every ride.
The riding ergonomics might have been an interesting feature though.
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So were the rigid "hardtails" of the 30's & 40's cursed with constantly collapsing wheels? I think a firm jolt up the spine a time or two made for a much more observant rider.
One of the bikes that I owned a long time ago was a 1958 Allstate 125. It had a hardtail rear end and was no fun to ride compared with motorcycles with rear suspensions that went up and down when riding over road potholes. ;)
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https://www.v-twinforum.com/threads/hard-tail-bikes-are-they-safe.185960/
From "Norster":
I've seen the dance of the rear wheel of shock equipped bikes in turns and rough roads.
I've also seen the sure footed rigid frame hardtails go thru with little or no loss of traction by comparison.
The rider determines safety or casualty/IMWIO
Riding a hardtail is like riding a horse.
->You raise up on the stirrups...
->You raise up on the pegs...
Let your legs absorb the shock and maintain control.
(yes, I have ridden horses. IMHO they need a "kill switch" more than bikes do)
All it takes is someone awake & aware riding.
Look at the seat & footpegs/controls.
Is the rider gonna go thru bumps like s/he expects smooth road?
or
Is the rider able to respond to rough road and even gravel?
My choppers had the best seats I could find and even they were spring mounted.
But I always had mid mount footpegs for the rough stuff.
I'm sure hardtail riders didn't change spokes daily. These machines were their daily transport and were as durable as necessary. Trials riders persevered on hardtails for years after road bikes adopted rear suspension. They are obviously a rougher ride, but appropriate rear tire pressures and enlightened self interest will minimize damage. Pounding a machine hard enough to snap spokes would be hard on the rider as well. Spoked wheels also are inherently good at absorbing shock loads when properly tensioned. Breaking a few spokes on a particular machine doesn't correlate to generalizing on an entire category of motorcycles that persisted for many years.
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The greentards should definitely get one.
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Der Ottonen B is back!! ;D
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It's probably not an issue when it comes to riding dynamics, if you hit a pothole though even at 45mph it's going to be hard on the spokes in the wheel and the wheel bearing.
I would observe that although a hub motor is certainly likely to be heavier than any alternate drive scheme, it does eliminate the mass of the sprocket, its mounting, and 1/2 the mass of the chain from the unsprung rear axle. For a drive shaft bike, the rear gearing and 1/2 the weight of the drive shaft would be eliminated. I think it's probably that belt drives win the least rear axle mass contest.
As AzCal Rtd pointed out, using a hub motor reduces overall weight of the vehicle by eliminating duplication of a hub structure in the separate motor.
From my perspective, the biggest negative of the hub motor is the fact that the motor can't benefit from torque multiplication in the drive train. Torque is limited by diameter, magnet strength and current limits. There are available hub motors with internal planetary gear systems that allow the motor's rotor to spin much faster than the wheel, and I suspect that the motors on these E-motos are constructed in that way. When they develop multiple ratio, internally geared hub motors, I think we'll see more manufacturers move in the direction of hub motors.
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So when is the NuVinci Hub Motor coming out? They already have the first half of your design package in production. I've ridden on, it's pretty slick.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_Continuously_Variable_Transmission
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NuVinci on a Raleigh e-bike:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVoTj3tfmWA
This motor drives the crankset, like you were pedaling, so an easy application, like the next:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYiXwhjlSMc
Obviously good for low power application, can't say how it would hold up at 3-5 HP without a major rework. Still a cool idea.
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So when is the NuVinci Hub Motor coming out? They already have the first half of your design package in production.
That's interesting, I hadn't seen that design. It's pretty amazing how much innovation is going on in the world of bicycles, let alone E-bicycles.
With respect to the NuVinci technology being used in a hub motor, I see a few issues. As you noted, it's going to difficult to get E-Moto torque levels through what is essentially a friction drive.
Second, as we can see in these pictures, the spherical balls eat up a lot more internal volume than a planetary gear cage. Here the planet gears look like nylon. If they were steel, they could be 1/3 as thick.
https://ebikes.ca/pub/media/wysiwyg/ezeestator.jpg
The NuVinci balls need to be substantial to handle the surface loads.
https://i1.wp.com/www.electricbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/BeltIGH19.png?w=696&ssl=1
Lastly, again because it's a friction drive, the efficiency is quite a bit less than a gears. This test showed overall friction loss of 3% for a single speed bicycle chain drive (97% efficient). With a internal geared (Rohloff) hub that went up to 5.5% average for all gears. The NuVinci continuously variable lost an average of 16.5% over it's range of ratios. https://www.cyclingabout.com/speed-difference-testing-gearbox-systems/
Efficiency wasn't so important when internal combustion engines and cheap gas was providing the power, but becomes a bigger factor with limited storage capacity for electrical energy, and definitely when a human is providing the power.
My impression is that the electric motors have such a wide torque band, that in hub form they don't require a lot of ratios to do the job, and don't require continuously variable transmissions at all. The problem a non geared hub motor has, is that on a steep hill it's being asked to delivery peak torque at lowest rpm and something gets burned up, or at minimum, efficiency plummets. Maybe all somebody needs to do is create an internal planetary gearing system that has a high ratio planetary, that can also be bypassed for direct drive at high speed, and the controller shifts based on speed and/or power demand? Seems so obvious, I'll bet it's already out there.
Back to the idea of hub weight creating issues with their unsprung weight, this graphic shows a range of bicycle wheel hub motors. We can see a weight range from 2.3 to 8.5 kg, quite a variation.
https://ebikes.ca/pub/media/wysiwyg/2020MotorSpread.jpg
I don't know about E-moto hub motors, but wonder if graphing power vs. weight for the bicycle hub motor will result in a fairly consistent factor that could be extrapolated.
It occurred to me that adding a rear hub motor, battery pack and controller, to a pedal moped, would result in a "hybrid motorcycle" that possibly retains eligibility as a non-licensed "low power E-bike".
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Axman88 - great analysis on the Nuvinci!
Here's how hub motors used to be...check out the starting drill.
Megola - Rotary Engined Motorcycle!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZghXM9xqCPA
Info from the UK...
https://www.bikesure.co.uk/bikesureblog/2016/05/electric-scooters-and-the-law.html
...and for even more fun, a hybrid scooter conversion kit...!?!
Petrol and Electric Hybrid Scooter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h4TPIUnYCc
A search for "hybrid scooter conversion kit" brings up a lot of hits. Way more than I would have thought. 4 H8 car batteries and a wounded scooter and you'd be on your way to a fun project.
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My impression is that the electric motors have such a wide torque band, that in hub form they don't require a lot of ratios to do the job, and don't require continuously variable transmissions at all. The problem a non geared hub motor has, is that on a steep hill it's being asked to delivery peak torque at lowest rpm and something gets burned up, or at minimum, efficiency plummets. Maybe all somebody needs to do is create an internal planetary gearing system that has a high ratio planetary, that can also be bypassed for direct drive at high speed, and the controller shifts based on speed and/or power demand? Seems so obvious, I'll bet it's already out there.
They may need infact just one gear ratio. The AC motors used in vehicles those days are controlled by an inverter that can deliver most any frequency and could be called the "gearbox" or "cvt" of an electric motor. When designing an electric vehicle what you would typically look at is the torque required for a good startability and so that the vehicle is capable of climbing a certain degree of slopes. That would determine your gear ratio that you choose for your motor. The other thing you want to decide upon would be the power in kilowatts, which depends on how fast you wish to go. Once you have selected a gear ratio that permits enough torque for an decent acceleration the inverter will take care of the rest and make the motor spin as fast as necessary sacrificing some torque with rising rpms.
It's all fantastic if there was no such thing as a battery. Although for an electric moped enthusiast the limitations may not be an issue at all. I would still shy away from an hub motor though unless the vehicle was designed for really slow speeds.
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"Pure" AC motors draw current inversely (sort of) proportional to the speed. At design RPM they produce enough "CEMF" to limit current in the windings (& inductively coupled rotor) to very low values, roughly analogous to a transformer in a no-load condition. As motor speed slows under load, CEMF decreases, winding currents (& rotor currents) increase, magnetic flux increases, speed increases a bit until the "balance point" RPM for that load on that motor is reached, the "slip frequency" for that load. At start up speeds CEMF is almost zero, so winding & rotor current is quite high, 15x to 30x the design FLA current, depending on winding design efficiency. Higher efficiency (low impedance) motors tend to have higher locked rotor currents. That's why AC motor starting protection looks both at current and time, to prevent motor overheating & damage.
The hub motors normally are permanent magnet motors to eliminate an extra set of brushes, so the attraction/repulsion forces possible depend on available Henrys of flux, rotor/stator spacing, magnetic field proximity, winding wire size & applied voltage, etc., etc.. Starting torque is limited by many design factors. The winding currents are controlled by the electronics "package", so there is some real voodoo going on as relates to motor speed & load control. Some of these hub motors even have regenerative braking/charging features. The package does everything, from protecting the motor windings to limiting max RPM. The fuses supplying them are just to limit damage in event of an internal fault.
Using an ordinary "pure" AC 3-phase motor on a VFD, the rule of thumb is don't exceed 150% of rated rpm. The drive contains various protection curves, and some drives also utilize thermistors embedded in the motor windings for overload overheating feedback. Vehicle drive motors are a pretty specialized design, with the construction blurring the AC/DC motor separation.
I'm with you on the probable need for a transmission, as that keeps you out of the extreme ends of the operating spectrum. We also agree on the limitations of batteries, as weight and limited energy storage capacity are still a problem. And as you point out, slow speeds are less demanding of the system and minimize drag forces, similar to the early days bi-plane flight envelop dictated by the draggy wing cross bracing. At speeds up to about 60 MPH, drag was manageable. For the racing bi-planes of the '30's & 40's, it took a truly huge engine to pull them along at 200+ MPH.
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:)...very nice. There is still too much confusion though regarding those motors, some call them AC motors, others DC motors electronically commutated. We agree it's brushless motors that use permanent magnets.
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I only know of one "mass produced" electric motorcycle with a transmission. That was the Brammo Empulse that was marketed between 2012 and 2018, when it was sold to Victory Motors, who produced a slightly updated version of the bike for about 2 years before Polaris shut down the Victory brand and the Victory Empulse TT went down the drain, too. That bike was water-cooled and used a 6-speed transmission sourced from a small company in Italy. To my knowledge no other electric motorcycle currently on the market uses a multi-speed transmission. All of the other brands, like Zero and H-D, use direct drive systems, brushless A/C motors, which appears to be the current standard in the industry, which seems to be sufficient to get them down the road. I believe that even all of the electric automobiles on the market also use direct drive power systems, even Tesla. I think Tesla once tried out a 2-speed transmission but that didn't work out for them and they went back to direct-drive.
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Direct drive eliminates a lot of "excess" components. It also largely removes the "meat puppet" factor, so engineering can just do what's necessary. For flattish ground, modest acceleration and moderate top speeds it works really well. Brammo was basically mimicking an IC engine, which is a LOT more user interactive and fun. Too bad they got shut down.
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Direct drive eliminates a lot of "excess" components. It also largely removes the "meat puppet" factor, so engineering can just do what's necessary. For flattish ground, modest acceleration and moderate top speeds it works really well. Brammo was basically mimicking an IC engine, which is a LOT more user interactive and fun. Too bad they got shut down.
I have always been a little ticked-off by Brammo. In 2010 they introduced their prototype Empulse with direct-drive. I was one of over 1000 people who put their names on the pre-order list for the bike. Then Brammo took the bike off of the market before it was ever built because the company founder, Craig, wanted to insert a clutch and transmission into the drive train.
After that announcement was made, I saw him at the Sears Point Raceway where they were racing the bike against 600cc ICE motorcycles. I can't recall if that was the direct-drive version or the one with the transmission that was being raced that day. But I had a discussion with Craig telling him that I didn't think much of his decision to cancel the direct drive and go with the 6-speed version. I thought that having less complexity on a new tech platform was a safer alternative. It would allow them to make sales right away and generate some cash while they worked the kinks out of the transmission version that could have been introduced later. However, he was adamant that motorcycle enthusiasts wanted the fun of shifting and clutching. I responded that I wasn't one of those and just wanted to own and ride an electric freeway-legal motorcycle.
Obviously, I didn't convince him of my way of thinking and it took two years for the new version to be introduced. By then I had bought a 2012 Zero ZF9 and was very happy with its direct-drive and lack of the shifting experience. It had plenty of power, could go 100 miles on a charge and was good for 80 mph up a 6% freeway grade. Attached are four photos of the direct-drive Brammo Empulse prototype that I took at on February 10, 2011 at Scuderia West (now SF's RE dealer) when it was displayed there one weekend.
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A truly efficient and simple AC motor would need three phase power.
Just saying :D
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Why stop at 3-phase?
https://www.quora.com/What-are-differences-between-a-3-phase-motor-and-motors-4-5-6-n-phase-if-they-exist
https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-4-pole-3-phase-motors-windings-look-like
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Here is something that you can do with your e-bike. Turn it into a tie-dyed piece of art: https://thepack.news/newsflash-ftn-motions-streetdog-collab-with-wellington-airport/
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With some painted disc wheel covers you could get that awesome spiral effect as you motored about at the "Doobie Brothers" college...
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A truly efficient and simple AC motor would need three phase power.
The brushless motors that are used for hub motors are running on chopped up, PWM DC, not true AC. Some controllers will run at higher frequency to create a waveform that approximates AC, which gives quieter running and more efficiency, but the run of the mill controller just sends subsequent square pulses to the various phases.
There's some information on how this works here: https://www.integrasources.com/blog/bldc-motor-controller-design-principles/
One could build a controller that had more phases, but I don't see much advantage. The motors are already constructed with lots of poles which gives more power pulses per rotation. I count something like 48 on the rather basic, gearless hub motor shown in this picture, split between the 3 phases: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Voilamart-Electric-Bicycle-E-Bike-26-Front-Rear-Wheel-Motor-Conversion-Kit/322247604604
In this design, the stator is fixed to the axle, while the magnets ( not shown in the picture) are attached to the rotating rim of the motor.
I think it's easy to see why this basic design of hub motor has a hard time developing power at low rpms.
The type with internal gears can spin a lot faster at a given wheel rpm, producing the same power with much fewer poles and in a package with reduced diameter and weight. http://volto.co.nz/wpvolto/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/motor300w-electric-bikes.png
I imagine that the motors used on the Sol and Sondors machines both use internal gearing, but I haven't seen details of these.
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New Info from Land Electric Motorcycles -
FROM THE LAND CEO: LAND has secured funding to start production in the USA. I can not express how excited our team is to enter this next phase – it has been three years since we started this journey. This funding will allow us to begin production in our existing facility and scale up the company. To everyone who holds a pre-order, thank you for the support. Without you, we would not be here.
INVESTORS, if you have been following our progress and want to explore investment opportunities with LAND, please reach out to me at scott@land.email.
https://landenergy.io/products/district-first-edition?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=campaign-email&utm_campaign=LAND_NL_V4%20%28UTUB5A%29&_kx=WXjKgl-3A3hhbsdbCFSwjwku_pWzQq_0Jn7CyukOhMYNXo-3KN2BB5r7Mpsx9Qii.RFzrM7
Specs:
https://landenergy.io/pages/vehicles?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=campaign-email&utm_campaign=LAND_NL_V4%20%28UTUB5A%29&_kx=WXjKgl-3A3hhbsdbCFSwjwku_pWzQq_0Jn7CyukOhMYNXo-3KN2BB5r7Mpsx9Qii.RFzrM7
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Ugly :(
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Ugly :(
I'm sensing a general theme here.....
Lets try one that's an outlier, something styled quite a bit different, but still electric.
What do we think of the Juicer electric bikes? http://www.juicer.bike/
Still ugly?
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Hmm, i think my consumption of ear plugs on an electric bike would be about as high as on an Enfield Diesel. ;D
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I'm sensing a general theme here.....
Lets try one that's an outlier, something styled quite a bit different, but still electric.
What do we think of the Juicer electric bikes? http://www.juicer.bike/
Still ugly?
I give Juicer credit for doing something unique in the way of a retro-design motorbike. At least it doesn't look like a rolling pod. But that system of chains and sprockets looks kind of sketchy with their very small counter-shaft sprocket and exposed chain. It will be interesting to see how well their bikes sell and how long they stay in business.
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The Juicer isn't ugly. A nice hipster style.
Most e-bikes simply have no effort put in to looking appealing ::)
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I give Juicer credit for doing something unique in the way of a retro-design motorbike. At least it doesn't look like a rolling pod. But that system of chains and sprockets looks kind of sketchy with their very small counter-shaft sprocket and exposed chain. It will be interesting to see how well their bikes sell and how long they stay in business.
I read an interview with David Twomey, the creative mind behind Juicer bikes, and got the impression that he's more of an artist than an engineer. The bikes are essentially hand made, by him, and in very limited numbers. Taking the thread in this direction was a bit of a red herring. I was just playfully trying to see if I could get our friend Nitrowing to admit he liked the looks of any electric bike.
As far as the business model of Juicer, ... that's a done deal. 2020 was hard on a lot of businesses.
http://www.juicer.bike/method.html#contact
Hopefully Mr. Twomey has moved on to a position where he can contribute his considerable artistic talent to some product that will achieve higher market penetration.
Meanwhile, the Kosynier is still in "pay now, get later" mode. https://kosynier.eu/vintage-electric-bike-kosynier-delux/
I prefer the Juicer. Batteries stacked in a way that they resemble cylinders seems a lot less pretentious than gluing on a fake plastic engine. When I was around 8 years old, I received a present of a toy engine that mounted on the frame of my bike. It had a lever that you would yank to spin an internal mechanism that made Vroom Vroom noises, and that was all it did. I thanked my dad when he put it on my bike, but I remember feeling a bit embarrassed by the thing.
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Taking the thread in this direction was a bit of a red herring. I was just playfully trying to see if I could get our friend Nitrowing to admit he liked the looks of any electric bike.
Yeah, I know ;D
There's been very few bikes I've admired in the last 20 years... the Vultus and RC390 are the only 2 I've actually seriously considered buying.
Electric bike design is even more atrocious than currently marketed ICE bikes, they're doing it on purpose and that's unforgivable >:(
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Personally, I never thought much about looks of the Brammo Enertia that was trying to be sold at Best Buy stores. As it was more of a motorcycle than a bicycle, it didn't work out all that well for them - especially when the DMV found out about their plans. ::)
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Here is the latest medium-size electric motorcycle model announcement from China. It includes the usual 45-second teaser video which tells you nothing about the motorcycle other than pretty young women like to ride the bike fast at night. ::) However, some specifications are included in the article that indicates it has a top speed of 62 mph, but no claimed range is mentioned.
https://thepack.news/ukko-s-from-tromox-guarantees-more-performance-and-fun/
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The "Chinese/Taiwanese girl" helmet off/hair flip at the end of your video was a hoot.
A nice "tour" of current electric motorcycles (see what I did there... :o) from vids associated with your link.
10 MOST INNOVATIVE ELECTRIC MOTORCYCLES COMING IN 2021-2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSjSUEBamlU
And for us older folks that like to stay dry - check out the "Artega Karo" at minute 12 or so.
Top 10 Mini EVs Available Now - Mini Electric Cars on a Budget
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtbkKaDr6Y0
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The ukko isn't as hideous as most but I can't see Akira riding it! ;D
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Just what the world needs, a 62-mph stand-up electric scooter. ::) https://thepack.news/skyer-motors-technologies-presents-its-ultra-fast-electric-scooter/
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https://youtu.be/OkeiEH1BA8M
...or you could get a Jetson One. Minor issue though is that unless you own a small country you may be able to ride it in your garden only.
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Jetson 1 - just the thing for the country estate owner with a 5 mile x 5 mile garden, a full charge gets you one 20 minute, 60 MPH lap....maybe. But you could be the coolest kid on the block, eh?
https://www.jetsonaero.com/
Flight time (85kg/187lbs pilot weight) - 20 minutes
Top level flight speed - software limited to 102km/h (63mph)
A complete vehicle is 92 000 USD and is delivered to you as a partially (50%) assembled kit for home completion. It contains everything you need, from the aluminium space frame to motor controllers, propellers and motors. You will also receive detailed build instructions.
If you want to have your own Jetson ONE, please contact us for purchase. 22 000 USD deposit to reserve a build slot. We plan to have twelve build slots for autumn 2022, with production starting during the summer of 2022.
Please contact Peter Ternström at peter@jetsonaero.com to order, or for questions.
Delivery 2022 - The entire 2022 production is sold out
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Or you could build an mono seater helicopter for about half the money that doesn't rely on an computer to keep that thing stable in the air which may suffer a sudden bluescreen, power it with an ICE to get that power and range where it ought to be. For the other half of the money you probably could get it to fly legally as well. ::)
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Rather the whole point of the Jetson1 was to give the feckless a way to get airborne. Piloting an actual manually controlled aircraft is a whole 'nother thing that joyriding in an automated skycycle. If you want to get airborne rapidly & cheaply & survive, get a Cosmos Trike or other flex-wing aircraft. Starting off in a rotary wing isn't a recipe for success. To assume that the Jetson1 folks haven't built in redundancy means you didn't read the literature on their site. You don't sell $100K toys to the wealthy without covering your litigious-prone ass.
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Rather the whole point of the Jetson1 was to give the feckless a way to get airborne. Piloting an actual manually controlled aircraft is a whole 'nother thing that joyriding in an automated skycycle. If you want to get airborne rapidly & cheaply & survive, get a Cosmos Trike or other flex-wing aircraft. Starting off in a rotary wing isn't a recipe for success. To assume that the Jetson1 folks haven't built in redundancy means you didn't read the literature on their site. You don't sell $100K toys to the wealthy without covering your litigious-prone ass.
Well, a rocket parachute ejection system is probably on board, won´t do much good unless you are 200-300ft. above ground. Anyway, nice effort, interesting to see.
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At low altitudes the 'chute covers the wreckage & sops up blood.... :o
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For the other half of the money you probably could get it to fly legally as well. ::)
The 102 kmh (55 knot) IAS exactly matches the US 14 CFR Part 103 regs - so am pretty certain it has been designed to comply with part 103 regulations in the US which means:
No licence or registration required to legally fly it in the US subject to the following restrictions:
- cannot be flown except between the hours of sunrise and sunset.
- may be operated during the twilight periods 30 minutes before official sunrise and 30 minutes after official sunset if the vehicle has an operating anti-collision light visible for at least 3 statute miles
- flight can only take place in uncontrolled airspace
- cannot be flown over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons
So basically legal to use for recreation in remote areas during daytime.
Definitely not legal to do night time Pizza delivery in Manhattan with it.
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The 102 kmh (55 knot) IAS exactly matches the US 14 CFR Part 103 regs - so am pretty certain it has been designed to comply with part 103 regulations in the US which means:
No licence or registration required to legally fly it in the US subject to the following restrictions:
- cannot be flown except between the hours of sunrise and sunset.
- may be operated during the twilight periods 30 minutes before official sunrise and 30 minutes after official sunset if the vehicle has an operating anti-collision light visible for at least 3 statute miles
- flight can only take place in uncontrolled airspace
- cannot be flown over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons
So basically legal to use for recreation in remote areas during daytime.
Definitely not legal to do night time Pizza delivery in Manhattan with it.
Darn! There goes my plan for fast pizza delivery in San Francisco. ::)
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Rather the whole point of the Jetson1 was to give the feckless a way to get airborne. Piloting an actual manually controlled aircraft is a whole 'nother thing that joyriding in an automated skycycle. If you want to get airborne rapidly & cheaply & survive, get a Cosmos Trike or other flex-wing aircraft. Starting off in a rotary wing isn't a recipe for success. To assume that the Jetson1 folks haven't built in redundancy means you didn't read the literature on their site. You don't sell $100K toys to the wealthy without covering your litigious-prone ass.
I don´t know, there are man that got it and there are man that don´t i guess. ::)
..how about an gyrocopter.
https://youtu.be/EpwIwUb5j3Q
..or this.
https://youtu.be/iN0jFN8NS3Y
well I suppose it´s NOT the FUTURE. ::) ...that´s decided by Greta and Dr. Evil. ;D
I would concider both those concepts safer with a higher degree of free movement than tha JETSON 1, however maybe many people may feel safe those days about the fact that a computer is on board as well as the rocket launched parachute. ::)
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An interesting vehicle that is limited to being earthbound, and that has a price that isn't out of orbit for an average Joe, is the Kollter ES1-S (Street) and ES1-X (Enduro).
Already available in the US from Naticycle, and priced just under $6K, with a 12kW, centrally mounted motor and a 72V, 25.6 Ah battery, the ES1 is capable of an 80 mile range and speeds up to about 60mph. Base weight is 220 lb. Adding a 2nd, 32 Ah battery allows a higher ~72mph top speed and longer range.
75% charge can be achieved with the 15amp charger in 2 hours. 100% will take up to 5 hours. I'm pulling the numbers in this post from all three links below, and they don't agree, so these are a bit of mish-mosh.
https://electrek.co/2021/10/26/north-americas-most-affordable-70-mph-electric-motorcycle-is-already-here-and-no-one-noticed/
http://www.kollter.com/es1.html
https://naticycle.com/ols/products/kollter-es1-s-5kw-2x72v32-batteries1
If I was a NEW motorcycle buyer, and given my current, "commute to work" usage pattern, a machine like this could be a real contender. My round trip daily ride is under 15 miles, at speeds under 50mph. This bike could handle that, easily. Perhaps the best value in an IC engine machine to do the same job would be something like this Genuine Buddy 170i scooter, that I can buy here direct from their Chicago based importer for around $3300. http://www.genuinescooters.com/buddy170i.html
I'll calculate the break-even mileage, assuming smooth running, and no major repairs required for either machine. I'll assume gas prices at $4/gallon. I paid more than that filling my Honda today. I suspect gas prices will be considerably higher before the break even period is finished, but lets keep the calculation simple. Let's assume that licensing, taxes, and registration is the same for both machines.
The Kollter will go about 700 recharge cycles before the battery is beyond hope. I'll need to charge twice every three weeks or so, lets say 40 times per year. That calculates to a 17.5 year life, which I'm skeptical of, but 8 years should be attainable with a little luck. That's 8 years of 25Ah * 72V recharges, 1.8 kW per charge. I think I'm paying about 13 cents per kwh and I'll say the charger is 85% efficient. That's 27.5 cents per recharge, on which I can go about 60 miles. The Kolter will cost me 2.2 cents per mile to operate.
The Buddy will get me 90 miles per $4/gallon of gas. That's 4.4 cents per mile. Scooters are cheap to ride. Oil changes are costing me $30 every 2000 miles, which brings me to 5.9 cents / mile to operate the Buddy.
With the cost of the Kollter being $2700 more than the Buddy, I'll need to ride a lot of miles before I've paid that difference off, just about 73,000 miles, to be exact.
This differential will continue to move in favor of the electric vehicles over the next few years. According to articles I've read, electric vehicle makers are predicting prices will be at parity within the next 5 to 10 years. When purchase prices equalize, the economics of ownership, will go increasingly in favor of the electrics.
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This differential will continue to move in favor of the electric vehicles over the next few years. According to articles I've read, electric vehicle makers are predicting prices will be at parity within the next 5 to 10 years. When purchase prices equalize, the economics of ownership, will go increasingly in favor of the electrics.
Well, Bill schmuck Gates predicted a deadly virus about 5 years ago, in the end they had to release something in Wuahan to make him feel good about himself. I'm predicting that the EV's will engage some reverse gears as fast as we've not seen before.
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@ 274: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFMPifnRTRU
@ #276....WTF?
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Don't forget the cost of insurance. Liability insurance could be expensive for a new flying machine with no track record that doesn't need to have a professional pilot flying it. :o
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Don't forget the cost of insurance. Liability insurance could be expensive for a new flying machine with no track record that doesn't need to have a professional pilot flying it. :o
Part 103 ultralights (most of which are trikes) are all officially homebuilt. The reason this thing comes as a kit. Probably also the reason for the very limited range, they need to stay under the 103 weight limit.
It will likely have the same insurance issues as anything else made from a kit at home and flown without a licence in non controlled airspace under Part 103.
Note that this 103 thing is a peculiarly US exemption. There is no way you get to fly something like this in Australia with out an engineering certificate, experimental registration and some form of pilots licence. I expect the UK and most other jurisdictions will be the same. The US is rather unusual in this regard.
Not a particularly practical vehicle more of a toy, though racing them might be a hoot.
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The pilot weight is limited to about 180 pounds, so running a 100 pound pilot gives you the possibility of either a faster bike or another 60-80 pounds of batteries for more range, fewer "pit stops", assuming the racing takeoff weights are normalized... :o
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https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/07/this-blowjob-machine-designed-for-teslas-on-autopilot-is-a-terrible-idea-but-probably-not-why-you-think/
...this is something they may appreciate in sweden. Huge market potential. ;)
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Another take on battery transport systems:
BBC: How high-speed electric vehicle racing is advancing tech
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59119103
Ms Gibson fully supports the development of new EV racing vehicles and the involvement of famous teams and drivers to spur electric racing on. "It is the future," she says. She adds that while some petrol-heads will always grumble about the lack of exhaust noise from electric vehicles, the visual spectacle remains thrilling.
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Another take on battery transport systems:
BBC: How high-speed electric vehicle racing is advancing tech
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59119103
Ms Gibson fully supports the development of new EV racing vehicles and the involvement of famous teams and drivers to spur electric racing on. "It is the future," she says. She adds that while some petrol-heads will always grumble about the lack of exhaust noise from electric vehicles, the visual spectacle remains thrilling.
I agree with her, and how about just going from A to B? I suppose that won't be necessary because everything will be virtual, from meetings to holidays in a holodeck. You won't have to travel anywhere. If you see your relatives in an virtual room it won't transmit viruses either. A holiday on the Bahamas in the simulator, wow and you can improve it anyhow you like from the people you meet to the weather. And you can keep endlessly pissing everyone off without heaving to fear consequences. :)
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Kosynier delivers some new machines - fun pics.
https://kosynier.eu/blog/photorelation-european-grand-tour-kosynier/?__ca__chat=8JL6KyGd0SZ7
Kosynier & The Distinguished Gentleman's Ride
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fEOLXLpATM
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Kosynier delivers some new machines - fun pics.
I look at these links and what I see is a publicity tour of European cities, a few bikes being shuttled around in a Ford Transit van. The "European Grand Tour", to promote presale of bikes promised to be delivered in 2022.
But an internet search showed me no evidence at all that any machine from this maker has been put into a buyer's hands. Nothing on Facebook or Instagram. The few videos on U-Tube were placed there by the Bielawski brothers, or are media reports. I didn't find any reports in forums of anyone being delivered a bike. This is disappointing, because their 10kW Boardtrack Racer, priced at $10,800 in the US, including $1000 of shipping, had a promised delivery date of July 2021. https://kosynier.eu/extreme-retro-ebike-kosynier-boardtrack/
Presale was closed a year ago on the Classics, but now it's open again, and with an announced 1000 euro price increase?
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=376460172537360&story_fbid=1580276288822403
From my perspective, Kosynier has been in this same status of presale and promising, arguably since 2016 when the first articles were published and definitely since 2018 when their Indiegogo campaign was launched. It's a handsome E-bike, and it would be nice to see some out there being ridden, especially since Juicer bikes closed shop in 2021.
Have you seen any reports of buyers receiving machines?
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https://youtu.be/1Y5RGit16uE
This is an rather amazing interview with Elon displaying the electric future. You know I'm certainly going to make sure i own couple of horses 🐎 in the future. ;D
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...we're now living in the future...
BBC: Rolls-Royce says its all-electric aircraft 'is world's fastest'
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-59359263
Rolls-Royce believes its Spirit of Innovation plane could be the world's fastest all-electric aircraft.
The firm - whose aerospace headquarters are based in Derby - said the plane reached a top speed of 387.4 mph (623 km/h) during test runs at an experimental aircraft testing site.
It is thought to have set new World Records over three different distances.
The figures have been sent to the World Air Sports Federation for verification.
The test flights took place at Boscombe Down in Amesbury, Wiltshire, on 16 November.
The top speed was achieved by test pilot and director of flight operations Phill O'Dell.
"This is the highlight of my career and is an incredible achievement for the whole team," he said.
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I comes from Britain, it's got to be Great. How long does it stay in the air? 5 minutes?
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These test flights seem to be about 15 minutes each. That's still a good time for an aircraft to either exceed 380 MPH in a speed run or climb to over 10,000 feet, return & land. Or were you just hoping for a fiery crash & multiple fatalities?
https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press-releases/2021/15-09-2021-rr-all-electric-spirit-of-innovation-takes-to-the-skies-for-the-first-time.aspx
The aircraft took off from the UK Ministry of Defence’s Boscombe Down site, which is managed by QinetiQ and flew for approximately 15 minutes. The site has a long heritage of experimental flights and the first flight marks the beginning of an intense flight-testing phase in which we will be collecting valuable performance data on the aircraft’s electrical power and propulsion system. The ACCEL programme, short for ‘Accelerating the Electrification of Flight’ includes key partners YASA, the electric motor and controller manufacturer, and aviation start-up Electroflight. The ACCEL team have continued to innovate while adhering to the UK Government’s social distancing and other health guidelines.
https://www.engadget.com/rolls-royces-all-electric-aircraft-completes-15-minute-maiden-voyage-143051424.html
Rolls-Royce, best known in aviation for its jet engines, has taken an all-electric airplane on its maiden voyage. The "Spirit of Innovation" completed a 15 minute flight, marking "the beginning of an intensive flight-testing phase in which we will be collecting valuable performance data on the aircraft’s electrical power and propulsion system," the company announced.
Rolls Royce said the one-seat airplane has "the most power-dense battery pack every assembled for an aircraft." The aircraft uses a 6,000 cell battery pack with a three-motor powertrain that currently delivers 400kW (500-plus horsepower), and Rolls-Royce said the aircraft will eventually achieve speeds of over 300 MPH.
The flight comes about a year after the originally scheduled takeoff and about six months after taxi trials. Rolls-Royce is also developing an air taxi with manufacturer Tecnam, with the aim of delivering an "all-electric passenger aircraft for the commuter market," according to the companies. It has previously teamed with Siemens and Airbus on another e-plane concept.
Aircraft companies have been exploring electric airplanes for a number of years, as air travel and cargo accounts for an increasing amount of greenhouse gases. The World Wildlife Foundation has called it "currently the most carbon intensive activity an individual can make."
Weight is a much bigger problem for airplanes that it is for cars, however. Ford's all-electric Lightning pickup weighs 1,800 pounds more than the gas-powered model, and offers a range that's slightly under half. However, if you added 1,800 pounds to to a Cessna 206 Turbo Stationair, you'd exceed its useful load by 500 pounds before you even loaded passengers (or the pilot) — so it wouldn't even get off the ground.
The project was half funded by the Aerospace Technology Institute and UK government, with the aim of eventually creating all-electric passenger planes. "This is not only about breaking a world record; the advanced battery and propulsion technology developed for this programme has exciting applications for the Urban Air Mobility market and can help make ‘jet zero’ a reality," said Rolls-Royce CEO Warren East.
Schadenfreude - pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.
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Schadenfreude? Not exactly, but do you expect me to be overwhelmed? 15min is 3 times more airtime than i've expected which is phenomenal, great achievement.
A small step for man, a giant leap backwards for mankind.
That said i wouldn't mind owning one toy plane like that.
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But electric power should work OK for dirigibles. Might want to use helium instead of hydrogen to fill them, though. ;)
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But electric power should work OK for dirigibles. Might want to use helium instead of hydrogen to fill them, though. ;)
The electric Zeppelin might do it first over the Atlantic you think? Maybe with some additional solar panels on the large surface area after a months voyage or so.
Preferably with on board ambassies and a corona test centre, enough time for sorting all your visas and vaccination passports.
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OR we could just skip the battery BS & go for readily available bio-diesel/"bio JP4" with a MUCH higher energy density and smaller eco-footprint. Lifting body aircraft like the Airlander make more sense if you want to go somewhere in a "reasonable" length of time and carry an actual payload. Or we could just sit around with our thumb up our asses making snarky comments "supported" by voodoo logic based alt-right publications.
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OR we could just skip the battery BS & go for readily available bio-diesel/"bio JP4" with a MUCH higher energy density and smaller eco-footprint. Lifting body aircraft like the Airlander make more sense if you want to go somewhere in a "reasonable" length of time and carry an actual payload. Or we could just sit around with our thumb up our asses making snarky comments "supported" by voodoo logic based alt-right publications.
Yeah, but not without AdBlue, that would be too poluting even if you combust bio diesel. AdBlue however is not available anywhere, so the electric seems to be the only option.
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You know I'm certainly going to make sure i own couple of horses 🐎 in the future. ;D
Horses are over-rated.
If you park your bike unattended in a garage over winter the most you need to get it going again is a new battery, often not even that. If you park a horse unattended in a garage over winter you can guarantee it will never start again.
The other issue with horses is the fuel and maintenance is the same regardless of whether you ride them or not.
oh ... also they bite. Though at least they do not spit, which the other option, llamas, are prone to do. The llama has never really been popular for personal transport though, probably due to the spitting issue.
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@ 294: That doesn't even make sense. There are multiple companies in the aero-bio-fuel biz already, and literally hundreds of thousands of emissions-legal commercial diesel semi's & delivery vehicles in service throughout the EU & USA. The glittering ass-sumption you'd have to be willing to make here to post that is that all the bio-aero folks didn't do their homework & every diesel vehicle is sidelined/OOS because there is no urea-injection fluid available. Neither possibility has a real world analog.
Looks more like an example of "The contrary, the most dangerous kind of Indian- Jack Crabb" in action.
Got your "bug out bag" ready?
80,000 Russian Troops Remain at Ukraine Border as U.S. and NATO Hold Exercises
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/05/us/politics/biden-putin-russia-ukraine.html
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@296: All vehicles made and sold after 2015 complying to EURO 6 equipped with a diesel engine have urea-injection on board to keep the NOx down. That's probably not applicable to aircraft (yet).
Now if you bought for example a super duper 2018 Audi TDI station wagon and you don't fill urea in it than it's going to switch into an emergency mode and you will be limited to an top speed of approximately 15mph to keep the environment clean.
All trucks and lorries are equipped with urea injection for an even longer period of time. With no urea available, supply chains will be disrupted to an even larger degree. And those luxurious super clean sedans may drop in value like a stone. Who would want to fill piss in their cars anyway. Super clean super complex shit, since NOx is almost as deadly as Covid. ( = anyone who died would have died anyway).
https://english.radio.cz/freight-transport-czechia-threatened-shortage-adblue-fuel-additive-8731994
Nice to see where the tax money unvolunyarily donated to the EU went. Into Agrofert Holding, the urinating company. ;D
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You don't even try, you just flail about looking for whatever "seems" right to support the random thoughts flitting thru your head. As long as they are conspiratorial, that's the maximum bang for the buck and you go for it. NOx? Eating a 50 cent box of salt will kill you, as well as 3 Castor Bean seeds.
The only interesting thing I saw was that lots of DEF comes from China & Russia. Restricting DEF supply adversely impacts the economies of the restrictees, a convenient leverage tool. Even more interesting is that the professional in-country watchdogs are not on the job here, they allowed it to happen, just like the (Chinese) microchip "shortage". Nobody is watching the store in Western countries - we gotta get the avalanche of money out of politics. "Business is War"
https://wwwn.cdc.gov/TSP/MMG/MMGDetails.aspx?mmgid=394&toxid=69
Medical Management Guidelines for Nitrogen Oxides
Standards and Guidelines
Nitric Oxide: OSHA PEL (permissible exposure limit) = 25 ppm (averaged over an 8-hour workshift)
NIOSH IDLH (immediately dangerous to life or health) = 100 ppm
Nitrogen Dioxide: OSHA PEL (permissible exposure limit) = 5 ppm (Ceiling)
NIOSH IDLH (immediately dangerous to life or health) = 20 ppm
Nitrogen Dioxide AIHA ERPG-2 (maximum airborne concentration below which it is believed that nearly all persons could be exposed for up to 1 hour without experiencing or developing irreversible or other serious health effects or symptoms that could impair their abilities to take protective action) = 15 ppm
https://www3.epa.gov/ttn/naaqs/standards/nox/s_nox_history.html
This measurement table shows an average USA value of 100 PPB, which is 0.1 PPM, or only 0.4% of the PEL.
20 Sun Tzu Quotes That Apply To Business
https://moneyinc.com/sun-tzu-quotes/
https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2271588-south-korean-def-shortage-sparks-government-response
" The DEF shortage has been caused by new urea export restrictions from China "
" There are equally concerns about securing Russian automotive-grade urea supply "
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A buddy of mine was telling me that he is waiting for this package to pass, so he can get money to replace his water and sewer pipes.
I'm more interested in 33% off on a new E ride. https://electrek.co/2021/11/20/tax-credits-jump-to-1500-for-e-bikes-7500-for-electric-motorcycles-in-build-back-better-act/
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A buddy of mine was telling me that he is waiting for this package to pass, so he can get money to replace his water and sewer pipes.
I'm more interested in 33% off on a new E ride. https://electrek.co/2021/11/20/tax-credits-jump-to-1500-for-e-bikes-7500-for-electric-motorcycles-in-build-back-better-act/
I think i wait a little more until i get an e-ride for free, because in the future you will own nothing and be happy about it. Than i put the EV in my collection of obscurities. ;D
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Here is a new e-bike for you. Just don't ask me where they hid the battery. Perhaps the scooter is Fred Flintstone foot powered? ::) https://thepack.news/have-fun-working-in-2022-with-nitos-new-scooter-cargo-share/
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Here is a new e-bike for you. Just don't ask me where they hid the battery. Perhaps the scooter is Fred Flintstone foot powered? ::) https://thepack.news/have-fun-working-in-2022-with-nitos-new-scooter-cargo-share/
That's something for Pepa Pig definitely. Maybe with a pedal generator, a chain to the backwheel is too old school. Than we talk efficiency.
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Here is a new e-bike for you. Just don't ask me where they hid the battery.
I would guess that the cells are inside the bottom deck, where the weight will be helpful in lowering the CG and promoting stability.
For something more traditional looking, how about the Maeving RM1?: https://news.in-24.com/sports/motorbike/199099.html
Its specs. are not particularly impressive, but they did manage to make something that looks, to my eye, very pleasing.
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So many 'designers' need their crayons removed, if not their fingers ::)
These 2 don't look as atrocious...
The Pursang and the RGNT
https://www.ecenter.network/pursang-motorcycles
Pity about the built-in genital mutilation device on the Pursang :o
https://www.ecenter.network/rgnt-motorcycles
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Here is an Italian electric motorbike startup concept with an electronic power controller that mimics a manual transmission which is looking for investors. The article includes a slick introduction video: https://thepack.news/the-new-italian-electric-motorcycle-manufacturer-scarponi-motorcycles-launches-its-new-range-of-electric-motorbikes-on-indiegogo/ (https://thepack.news/the-new-italian-electric-motorcycle-manufacturer-scarponi-motorcycles-launches-its-new-range-of-electric-motorbikes-on-indiegogo/)
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It would have been better to have added a motorcycle gearbox in the first place to begin with, while it would add a little bit of extra weight, It would allow the motor to run under less stress and by dropping down a gear or two while going down hill it would make the regenerative braking more efficient and controllable compared to a fixed ratio electric motorcycle especially on wet roads. Having an overdrive would also allow the motor to run at a comparable top speed but without having the battery deplete its charge rapidly.
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A gearbox is just dead weight for an electric vehicle. Especially on a bike.
The battery depletes its charge according to the used energy. A gearbox does not change it , it adds energy loss in the system.
Look at the Porsche Taycan. It has a 2 step gearbox. And it looses against the tesla Plaid in every way.
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A gearbox is just dead weight for an electric vehicle. Especially on a bike.
The battery depletes its charge according to the used energy. A gearbox does not change it , it adds energy loss in the system.
Look at the Porsche Taycan. It has a 2 step gearbox. And it looses against the tesla Plaid in every way.
In theory it can be proved without a doubt the gears would have a lot of disadvantages. But consider a real world application of a single speed bicycle and a 21 speed bicycle, why does the 21 speed bicycle climb up hills better have a higher top speed and the rider has less fatigue than if the same rider was riding a single speed bicycle.
With 21 gears we are adding more weight, more friction, more maintenance, more expense and more moving parts so in theory it should be a disaster but in reality its not.
Add a 250 watt mid mount motor driving the rear wheel of a bicycle with a 7 speed cassette gearset and a hub mounted 250 watt motor, eliminate the rider input via pedaling . The hub mounted motor is going to have better acceleration but its not going to have the range of the mid mounted motor since it has 7 different speed options. What happens in the situation when the bicycle with the hub mounted 250 watt motor is going to uphill? The battery is just going to deplete faster, the same happens when the bicycle with the 250 watt hub mounted motor is pushed to its legal top speed.
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A bicycle has a very rev range limited motor though - you. Typical cadence lies between 30 to 90 rpm where a typical sob averages max continuous power of 150Watt at approximately 60rpm. Kinda constant speed motor which needs many gears unlike an electric machine, that may need a gear but only for a good startability, the rest is a job for the vfd.
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However, the subject electric motorbike does not have an actual gearbox. It has a computer program that mimics the feeling of a gearbox. I have my doubts how useful that is to the rider as it sounds like it will just modify the motor's output depending upon the activation of a button. ???
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However, the subject electric motorbike does not have an actual gearbox. It has a computer program that mimics the feeling of a gearbox. I have my doubts how useful that is to the rider as it sounds like it will just modify the motor's output depending upon the activation of a button. ???
Audi tried something like that with their CVT's and programmed about 6 or 7 steps in that gearbox. Probably better than the rubber band feeling it would otherwise have, nevertheless it wasn't of any major market success, soon after that DCT's came out and the CVT's were dropped.
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Mini Cooper equipped CVT models too had a similar feature where the "shift points" needed to be calibrated and there is a detailed adaptation process that needed to be completed should the battery had gone flat.
It involved going through a process of intialization of the adaptation process then taking the car on the road and accelerating to 55mph and let the car coast down to a near stop without the brakes being appied. This can only be done when the engine has cooled down, which meant if by any chance the brake was applied before the car coasted to a near stop, the whole process had to be redone after the engine cooled down.
The procedure also includes a warning that says on higher mileage cars there is a risk damaging the transmission.
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Mini Cooper equipped CVT models too had a similar feature where the "shift points" needed to be calibrated and there is a detailed adaptation process that needed to be completed should the battery had gone flat.
It involved going through a process of intialization of the adaptation process then taking the car on the road and accelerating to 55mph and let the car coast down to a near stop without the brakes being appied. This can only be done when the engine has cooled down, which meant if by any chance the brake was applied before the car coasted to a near stop, the whole process had to be redone after the engine cooled down.
The procedure also includes a warning that says on higher mileage cars there is a risk damaging the transmission.
That initialization process doesn't seem to be something that most vehicle customers would embrace if they had to do it themselves and even less so if they had to pay their dealer to do it. ::)
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That initialization process doesn't seem to be something that most vehicle customers would embrace if they had to do it themselves and even less so if they had to pay their dealer to do it. ::)
It's crap, however more and more companies engage in selling service plans and obstacles like that since the margines on their products are often very slim. Im sure AzCal can give some interesting story to it since it's common practice and makes sense with industrial equipment such as steam or gas turbines for power generation.
Now we have companies around that will sell you an vacuum cleaner and try to push a service plan on you. That would IMO leave anyone wondering if there is something wrong with that product, however some people seem to be still buying into it.
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I should mention that ever since Zero redesigned their electric motors about 5 years ago to an "internal permanent magnet" design to make them more resistant to overheating, they have wanted the owners of their bikes to return to their dealers every 8K miles to have their motors "commissioned". I think that involves the use of a magic wand. ;D
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Zero bikes are not worth the money.
20 grand for a bike that can't do more than 100 miles.
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Zero bikes are not worth the money.
20 grand for a bike that can't do more than 100 miles.
They are perfect commute motorcycles where you are traveling a fixed distance every day. If your employer provides free EV charging, that is useful plus. And don't forget, they require almost no maintenance, except for chassis wear items, like tires and an occasional set of brake pads. ;) That can save a lot of money in the long run if you typically take your bike to a dealer for servicing.
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As for me if I was to put down 20 grand for a two wheeler I may as well take some fat ars couch like a HD or the R18, atealst in 10-20 years it´s going to have still a value almost unchanged to today if not greater considering the destruction the retards in davos are driving forward. Your "high voltage" horse is worthless the day the the battery needs replacement. Better flush the cash of folks like Schwab or Gates down the toilet, everyone would be better off.
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As for me if I was to put down 20 grand for a two wheeler I may as well take some fat ars couch like a HD or the R18, atealst in 10-20 years it´s going to have still a value almost unchanged to today if not greater considering the destruction the retards in davos are driving forward. Your "high voltage" horse is worthless the day the the battery needs replacement. Better flush the cash of folks like Schwab or Gates down the toilet, everyone would be better off.
I have yet to hear of anyone needing a battery replacement due to long usage of a Zero. The battery packs that I have heard being replaced by Zero owners were always done at Zero's cost during their 5-year warranty because of factory assembly, battery cell, or BMS defects.
I have the largest battery pack available (16.6 kWh nominal) when I bought my current Zero in 2018. At the time Zero claimed that the pack would last for 380,000 miles before reaching 80% of its original capacity. When was the last time anyone here kept a motorcycle for that long? (Frankly, I doubt that the Zero chassis would last much past 100K before needing replacement of every one of it moving parts - including the motor.) BTW, my daughter is riding my old 2014 Zero and it still runs as well after 8 years and has as long a range as it did when new.
However, I do agree that the current electric freeway-legal motorcycles are still too expensive, especially as the "major" brands in the U.S., Zero, Energica and LiveWireOne, all cost too much for what you get as these manufacturers are focused on the high end of the market in order to push both the technology, their performance claims and their profits. However, Zero does have a model that sells for around $10K, which with the 10% federal IRS income tax credit and hundreds of dollars of rebates by a few states, like California, does get its price, if not its performance, into the 600cc gas-powered motorcycle price range. It would be helpful if the U.S. electric motorcycle manufacturers would offer more "budget" EVs to the market.
What is odd is why the Chinese, that sell millions of electric motorbikes and scooters every year haven't bothered to enter the North American market. Maybe they are happy to just sell electric bicycles here and avoid the cost of setting up dealerships, supply, service and other issues that go along with selling highway-legal vehicles here. ???
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How and why does it seem desirable to flush other people's maney into the sewer?
Firstly, Gates and Schwab might disagree to the process.
Secondly it would clog the toilet with cotton fiber paper.
Thirdly, battery service life well exceeds that of a clogged toilet.
Fourth, Harleys clog the resale market but electrics don't.
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How many old Honda C90 or CG125's can I get for £20'000?
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How and why does it seem desirable to flush other people's maney into the sewer?
Firstly, Gates and Schwab might disagree to the process.
Secondly it would clog the toilet with cotton fiber paper.
Thirdly, battery service life well exceeds that of a clogged toilet.
Fourth, Harleys clog the resale market but electrics don't.
That's some interesting points.
Firstly, to slow down the growth in undesirable markets. Secondly the toilet seems already clogged.
I'm in agreements with three and four.
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Meanwhile, Ducati is testing an electric racing motorcycle prototype for use when Energica quits the MotoE competition at the end of next year. When Ducati finally markets an electric street bike, how much do you think that will set you back? ::)
https://www.motorcycle.com/features/ducati-motoe-prototype-electric-racebike-makes-public-testing-debut.html
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....but think of the Glory.... ;D ;D ;D
I'll just tow it behind my new Taycan on its platinum trailer.
https://www.truecar.com/porsche/taycan/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/towing.318/
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Stark VARG: the world's fastest motocross bike is now electric
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozEEvlgtTPE
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Stark VARG: the world's fastest motocross bike is now electric
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozEEvlgtTPE
Interesting, they might be making up some of the figures however it seems well engineered and it looks good too. The phone and all the settings might be annoying, i would need only one setting, a well hidden button that downgrades it to the speeds of an electric bicycle so i don't have to bother with any regs at all and can offer the government agent a test ride.
I always wanterd to ride under water. ::)
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And now we have the German eROCKIT motorbike. Is is a bird, is it a plane, a rocking chair?, no it is an electric ROCKIT with pedals and they are looking for investors so that they can make more eROCKITS: https://thepack.news/electric-vehicle-manufacturer-erockit-is-preparing-for-the-future/
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And now we have the German eROCKIT motorbike. Is is a bird, is it a plane, a rocking chair?, no it is an electric ROCKIT with pedals and they are looking for investors so that they can make more eROCKITS: https://thepack.news/electric-vehicle-manufacturer-erockit-is-preparing-for-the-future/
Looks like something i wouldn't put a cent into, unlike the swedish wolf which is too good to be true.Would love to see that, with such specs it's got to take over the world and it's a bargain too.
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....but think of the Glory.... ;D ;D ;D
I'll just tow it behind my new Taycan on its platinum trailer.
https://www.truecar.com/porsche/taycan/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/towing.318/
Surprisingly that Porsche looks actually too cheap for being a Porsche with 81k$, some no name brands sell at about same or higher cost in that category.
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@ #329: Oh No Worries, the Taycan just starts in the $80K range. The actual one you'd be caught driving around in specs out at near $250K USD... :o Not sure what the trailer hauling the Ducati MotoE would have to be made of, maybe titanium cut from the hull of a decommissioned Alfa Unterseeboot and tyres filled with Helium II...so keep those valve caps on tight or the Rollin effect will leave your conspicuous consumption efforts flat...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa-class_submarine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium#Helium_II.
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As for me a real Porsche is a flat six and aircooled anyway. Maybe they will come one day from China too and finally affordable?
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Surprisingly that Porsche looks actually too cheap for being a Porsche with 81k$, some no name brands sell at about same or higher cost in that category.
Just add that 60% of all taycans have a defective battery pack due to a badly engeneered loading electronic. This loading circuits are still assembled in the new cars.
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Should be plenty of spare parts out there for the EV bike & motorcycle modding crowd then! ;D
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Should be plenty of spare parts out there for the EV bike & motorcycle modding crowd then! ;D
If it was me i would probably rather scrap the faulty parts than dumping it on the market or playing Santa Claus, i doubt that company thinks much diffently. Only dumping that occures is when the gob. pays the difference. ;)
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You never bought bits & pieces from a scrapyard?
My pal David bought a great piece of chromoly from the aircraft scrapyard in Tucson. We got it home, carefully fishmouthed it to fit up precisely to the other frame tube it was intended to reinforce. Out comes the 7018 rod, first tack in progress. The 7018 rolls off the new tube like water off of wax. Much head scratching. More tube cleaning. Try again - same result. Dave gets an inspired look, out comes a magnet - no stick at all...but it was a VERY NICE piece of titanium... :o ;D ;D ;D
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I wait with the visit to the scrapyard until the 80% vaxxed surrender their ice vehicles and drop it of at the yards. ;)
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You never bought bits & pieces from a scrapyard?
My pal David bought a great piece of chromoly from the aircraft scrapyard in Tucson. We got it home, carefully fishmouthed it to fit up precisely to the other frame tube it was intended to reinforce. Out comes the 7018 rod, first tack in progress. The 7018 rolls off the new tube like water off of wax. Much head scratching. More tube cleaning. Try again - same result. Dave gets an inspired look, out comes a magnet - no stick at all...but it was a VERY NICE piece of titanium... :o ;D ;D ;D
So you dug out the TIG ?
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...so keep those valve caps on tight or the Rollin effect will leave your conspicuous consumption efforts flat...
...as for me, what ever efforts i might have taken that lead to what ever results have been faked up. I'm totally corrupt. ;)
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@ #337: it was about 1976, we were lucky to have a stick welder! ;D ;D ;D
I guess the main point was take your magnet to the aviation scrapyard if the intent is to buy steel. So, when is your titanium Bullet frame going to be ready for the road? That or aluminum would certainly make a nice piece!
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Probably never. No aluminium, neither titanium around sorry, however some CrMo tubing, not sure what to make out of them yet.
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Life would be great if only these defective people who write transport laws knew what they are doing, they let the lunatics run one big asylum so unfortunate and not green at all, they class electric bikes as a moped when you can pedal a bike faster.
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https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM8Tum9ra/
...here come the new covid regulations for 2022. It's going to be an awesome year for sure. ::)
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@ #342: ...so, we get our news from TikTok? Fortunately for us Westerners, the PRC has never been known to use it's large corporations as either information gathering tools or disinformation dissemination outlets. And everything on the intranet is true & verifiable.
It'll be a nice day for an alt-right anti-vax "freedumb" march on the Reichstag & US Capitol soon, probably just before Taiwan & Ukraine get the hammer treatment. Will it be coincidence or fate?
The USA - 814,000 and climbing! We're #1! :o
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TikTok
TikTok, known in China as Douyin (Chinese: 抖音; pinyin: Dǒuyīn), is a video-focused social networking service owned by Chinese company ByteDance.[4] It hosts a variety of short-form user videos, from genres like pranks, stunts, tricks, jokes, dance, and entertainment[5][6] with durations from 15 seconds to three minutes.[7][8][9] TikTok is an international version of Douyin, which was originally released in the Chinese market in September 2016.[10] TikTok was launched in 2017 for iOS and Android in most markets outside of mainland China; however, it became available worldwide only after merging with another Chinese social media service, Musical.ly, on 2 August 2018.
Concerns have been voiced regarding content relating to, and the promotion and spreading of, hateful words and far-right extremism, such as anti-semitism, racism, and xenophobia. Some videos were shown to expressly deny the existence of the Holocaust and told viewers to take up arms and fight in the name of white supremacy and the swastika.[163] As TikTok has gained popularity among young children,[164] and the popularity of extremist and hateful content is growing, calls for tighter restrictions on their flexible boundaries have been made. TikTok have since released tougher parental controls to filter out inappropriate content and to ensure they can provide sufficient protection and security.[165]
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Hmmm, even if you put a golden lettering to it...makes about as much sense as tiktok. ;)
Marry Christmas. :)
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If we're talking sense, go down and get your jab. Do what's reasonable, not entertaining.
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If we're talking sense, go down and get your jab. Do what's reasonable, not entertaining.
Entertainment makes sence, it's been reduced to tv though.
https://www.needforlife.info/importance-of-entertainment/amp/
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Entertainment makes sence, it's been reduced to tv though.
https://www.needforlife.info/importance-of-entertainment/amp/
Ever since the Swedish politicos got into entertainment it's turned into a show i'm not interested to see at all. You wouldn't want to play football with them, winner is the looser, looser is the winner. If you win you may have to excuse yourself for playing better. You see this crap in everything including formula "e" where they introduced a thing called fan boost. I doubt Ayrton Senna would want anything like that when racing against Prost.
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So - entertainment is prioritized over necessity? Out here in the sticks, even some of the most die hard "Red Pill-ers" are waking up to the fact that, as one lady put it, "This shit is real". It did take her own dear Granny getting sick enough to be taken to Hospital though. Apparently unless the kill rate is high, likely at least 5%, a communicable disease registers as a non-event to about 30% of us. Particularly if you are personally physically unaffected. "Out of sight, out of mind", yes?
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Well you see no one pays any attention until it effects them certainly will over the next ten years, but l do think electric bikes have a place in urban settings, the problem is our genetically defective police won’t let progress take it course, they have none sensible laws and want to corporate exploit everyone hardy green state control.
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So - entertainment is prioritized over necessity? Out here in the sticks, even some of the most die hard "Red Pill-ers" are waking up to the fact that, as one lady put it, "This shit is real". It did take her own dear Granny getting sick enough to be taken to Hospital though. Apparently unless the kill rate is high, likely at least 5%, a communicable disease registers as a non-event to about 30% of us. Particularly if you are personally physically unaffected. "Out of sight, out of mind", yes?
What does help you a free jab for covid, when you have an income that doesn't doesn't pay your bills. When the trucks don't roll, food doesn't get delivered, heater does not work. Half the population is academics clapping themselves on the shoulders what a fantastic speach they gave, other half of the population spends their lives in pubs drinking from morning to evening to wash their brains from the bullshit they had to listen to? Ya everything has degraded to a shity entertainment in Swedotopia.
So ya, how about a shot of heroine or morphine? That's going to do the job even better.
Why would anyone care about anyone elses bloved granny dying when you can't even go to the funeral of your own, due to being locked down, or swedish pedos steeling your resources and brainwashing your kids?
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Well the problem with society today is it has become very selfish every one for them selves, the men in the pub just rabbit recited bullshit not worth a listen or cost of a pint, the academics talk shit half the time they don’t know what they are talking about, sweet world indeed.
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Atleast the music is getting really good. ;D
https://youtu.be/KynkMn5Hv3Q
Is this the office where they make the covid regs? Who could possibly handle that many, our politicos don't seem to be able to handle even the one they are married to. ;D ;D ;D
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Atleast the music is getting really good. ;D
https://youtu.be/KynkMn5Hv3Q
Is this the office where they make the covid regs? Who could possibly handle that many, our politicos don't seem to be able to handle even the one they are married to. ;D ;D ;D
Malcom X is rolling in his grave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnJFhuOWgXg
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" Why would anyone care about anyone elses bloved granny dying "
" Well the problem with society today is it has become very selfish every one for them selves "
" Well you see no one pays any attention until it effects them certainly will over the next ten years, .... the problem is our genetically defective police won’t let progress take it course, they have none sensible laws and want to corporate exploit everyone .... "
I guess that pretty much covers it, from absolute non-concern for others in their own society to a testament to the wonders of raw Darwinian selection. Things look bleak for y'all, maybe Sarco is onto something, finally giving the folks with nothing to look forward to and who've thoroughly given up an easy way out. That's either altruism or clever marketing, gotta hand it to them either way. Well, "Operators are standing by, plan ahead, don't wait until things get too crowded...". Switzerland is way better than Sweden, right? Have a great view of icy, rocky crags as you sip your coco (with mini-marshmallows, of course) and slip away to a "better place".
EDIT ( So, a Megan tha Stallion music video is a demographic plus? Who knew - I guess add "Motel Death" to the list of Sarco final extras package?)
Sarco suicide capsule hopes to enter Switzerland
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sarco-suicide-capsule--passes-legal-review--in-switzerland/46966510
A 3D-printed capsule destined for use in assisted suicide hopes to operate in Switzerland, according to Exit International, the organisation that developed the ‘Sarco’ machine.
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Malcom X is rolling in his grave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnJFhuOWgXg
Vast parts of the swedish population are atheist, the plumbers there are not black.
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Definitions from Oxford Languages
non se·qui·tur : /ˌnän ˈsekwədər/ : noun
A conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. "his weird mixed metaphors and non sequiturs"
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Exit international, what fine organisation is that? Exit what, international trade? Exit the planet?
Switzerland might have expanded to Sweden, is it that what turned the country upside down?
How is it going with the TIG welder?
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Looks like the old neurons are firing at random again, too much Eierlikoer?
Haven't found a previous reference in the thread for "exit international"; catchy though, maybe copyright it?
Here's a real WTF moment: "Switzerland might have expanded to Sweden, is it that what turned the country upside down?"
Are you trying to post me a TIG machine? Thanks in advance. Or just send a cashier's cheque, save the postage. Harbor Freight has a functional selection for under $800, a blank check will work out just as well.
Keep downing those Red Pills, no doubt reality will coalesce soon. They are doing a helluva job so far... :o
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Vast parts of the swedish population are atheist
I recall reading somewhere some young Swedish people have an unfortunate habit of running around burning down historic churches.
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Looks like the "Black Metal" band crowd is accountable for many of the Scandinavian church burnings. There is an Alt-Right tendency in "Black Metal" also. Sweden, Ireland, England, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, and many more nations have similar numbers of "Irreligious people". But by not citing any proof to back your assertions, you can cast shade far and wide to suit your mood. Noise...
" Vast parts of the swedish population are atheist " Apparently not significantly more than many other countries.
" I recall reading somewhere some young Swedish people have an unfortunate habit of running around burning down historic churches. " Looking like the "Black Metal Alt-Right" crowd has a hand in most of that.
https://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/dominic-alessio-robert-wallis-black-metal-extreme-right-music-scene-news-41994/
Black metal is also associated with a series of church burnings across Norway in the 1990s by Varg Vikernes, a racist heathen and black metal musician. More recently, it was reported that Holden Matthew, the 21-year-old charged with burning down three black churches in Louisiana, was also influenced by black metal and held racist heathen beliefs. Some of black metal’s aesthetics even appear to have influenced the violent imaginary of the neo-Nazi Atomwaffen Division. Plato may have been correct when he warned “about the interconnectivity of politics and music.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_irreligion
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I recall reading somewhere some young Swedish people have an unfortunate habit of running around burning down historic churches.
I also recall hearing about rival motorcycle gangs in Sweden and the Netherlands shooting RPG rounds into each other's club houses a few years ago. Sounds like fun. But maybe not as much fun as building down historic churches. ::)
Say, shouldn't this topic be in the California and Sweden thread? ??? Unless they are using EV batteries to start those fires. :o
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Micah Toll is a personal electric vehicle enthusiast, author of the Amazon bestselling books DIY Lithium Batteries, DIY Solar Power and the Ultimate DIY Ebike Guide, and writes for Electrek.
His picks for the biggest E-Moto news of 2021 were:
- Sondors $5000 Metacycle, 80 mph, 80 mile range
- BMW's funky, low speed, lightweight, the Vison AMBY
- The utilitarian, US made Volcon Grunt
- ALYI's retro R71 interpretation, that wasn't.
- Kawasaki's announcement that it would release THREE new E-motos in 2022.
https://electrek.co/2021/12/22/these-were-the-top-5-biggest-electric-motorcycle-news-stories-of-2021/
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@ GlennF @ 361: Looks like around #336 the dead horse of Sweden got irrationally dragged into the mix. Maybe the Bilgemaster can excise (or delete) this chunk back over to the woo-woo thread?
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Axman88 @ # 362: Is this an actual thing? A $1300 USD EV that goes about 95 miles on a charge around town?
Revolt’s 53 MPH (85 km/h) budget electric motorcycle begins making deliveries
Micah Toll - - Oct. 19th 2019 4:37 am PT
https://electrek.co/2019/10/19/revolt-rv400-budget-electric-motorcycle-deliveries/
Revolt has since offered a second option for customers to buy the RV400 outright at a cost of around US $1,300.
The Revolt RV400 electric motorcycle is designed to compete with 150cc motorcycles and carries a top speed of 85 km/h (53 mph). Its 3.25 kWh battery is rated for a range of up to 156 km (97 mi) on a single charge, though that range is when traveling at city speeds.
The RV400 does show some differences when compared to the Super SOCO TC or TS models. In addition to minor body panel updates, the RV400 uses a mid-mounted motor with a belt drive, whereas the Super SOCO TC and TS models both use rear hub motors.
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Axman88 @ # 362: Is this an actual thing? A $1300 USD EV that goes about 95 miles on a charge around town?
It appears to me that at this point the Revolt RV400 is only being offered to the India market.
https://www.livemint.com/auto-news/revolt-rv400-electric-motorcycle-bookings-to-open-in-70-cities-from-october-21-11634638907096.html
I suspect that the prices quoted in US $ are "equivalent prices", kind of like saying that the RE Meteor's price is $3,333 because it sells for 2.4 lahk in Mumbai. When and if the machine is offered to the US market, I'd anticipate the price would be substantially more. Also, bargain "introductory pricing" seems to be a huge thing in the EV market. There's already talk that the price of the Sondors Metacycle will go up by $1000 ( 20%), or more, and the first units haven't shipped to buyers yet.
But it definitely looks like the Revolt RV400 is a real thing in India. Here's a very believable interview with a young man who says he's put 14,000km (8,750 miles) on his RV400 over 7 months, commuting 80km/day (50 miles) , and with longer rides up to 140km (92 miles) on a single charge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmbxbg-127o
The most impressive part of his story to me, is that this young man has the self discipline to travel for over 4 hours at 35 kph! ( 22 mph), which is apparently what it takes to extract the maximum range from the modest 3.24KWh 72V, Lithium-ion battery.
The RV400 is equipped with a 3kW mid motor. I've seen some electric bicycles given this much and even more power, up to 10kW. Here's a $350 mid motor kit that claims 3kW: https://lunacycle.com/cyclone-mid-drive-3000w-planetary-kit/
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Thanks for the info & great links! That 3KW motor looks like the ticket for a home built transporter. Seems like a Honda Ruckus-like platform would provide room for adequate batteries. Apparently you'll need 4KW-5KW worth of battery to go reliably 100 miles, flat ground, maybe 30 MPH.
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The NIU line is being sold by the "Genuine Scooter Company", at least the scooters.
http://www.genuinescooters.com/grandtourer150.html
https://electrek.co/2020/01/07/niu-rqi-gt-electric-motorcycle-unveiled-affordability/
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It looks like e-bikes and electric motorcycles are getting the "Dutch rub" when it comes to tax incentives in the Netherlands. Here is the story: https://thepack.news/newsflash-electric-motorbikes-and-mopeds-are-losing-their-mia-vamil-advantages-for-entrepreneurs-in-the-netherlands/
Perhaps Derottone can advise us if this is a Swedish plot to eliminate Dutch electric motorcycle investors and force them to return to funding steam-powered bicycles. ;)
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It looks like e-bikes and electric motorcycles are getting the "Dutch rub" when it comes to tax incentives in the Netherlands. Here is the story: https://thepack.news/newsflash-electric-motorbikes-and-mopeds-are-losing-their-mia-vamil-advantages-for-entrepreneurs-in-the-netherlands/
Perhaps Derottone can advise us if this is a Swedish plot to eliminate Dutch electric motorcycle investors and force them to return to funding steam-powered bicycles. ;)
The Swedish mafia always wins. As soon as you´ve made an huge commitment to something they change the rules. Some most obvious examples in Sweden are their former municipality owned rotten down swimming pools and spas, i don´t know how many times they´ve been "privatized" already, however I´ve never seen properties changing hands as quickliy. It seems there is no shortage of a greater fool who want´s to buy into it and be fleeced. Unquestionably, they must be waiting now for some chinese SOB fleeing the chinese holy grail of social credit system to put his money down, so that they can apply the same technology on him, maybe even in an more advanced way. Who knows he could spit on the ground in the public or throw a burned down ciggarete somewhere as all sweds do that would definitely mark him social credit unworthy. First they would come with penalties, and increase them until he can't pay anymore. If he would not sell out by that time, it would be confiscated and the SOB if lucky would leave the country before they lock him in. The perfect place to invest and earn a ZERO return. ;D
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The Swedish mafia always wins. As soon as you´ve made an huge commitment to something they change the rules. Some most obvious examples in Sweden are their former municipality owned rotten down swimming pools and spas, i don´t know how many times they´ve been "privatized" already, however I´ve never seen properties changing hands as quickliy. It seems there is no shortage of a greater fool who want´s to buy into it and be fleeced. Unquestionably, they must be waiting now for some chinese SOB fleeing the chinese holy grail of social credit system to put his money down, so that they can apply the same technology on him, maybe even in an more advanced way. Who knows he could spit on the ground in the public or throw a burned down ciggarete somewhere as all sweds do that would definitely mark him social credit unworthy. First they would come with penalties, and increase them until he can't pay anymore. If he would not sell out by that time, it would be confiscated and the SOB if lucky would leave the country before they lock him in. The perfect place to invest and earn a ZERO return. ;D
Fun and games in Sweden, then. ;)
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" The perfect place to invest and earn a ZERO return. " Zero return? That money goes somewhere, just not into your pocket. "Then what has the gold makes the rules". Why didn't you join up with the money making crowd whilst you were over there if that was your intent? As far as the Mafia always winning, a well scoped .338 Lapua in the hands of a cancered out retiree means if you are within 1000 meters, you are close enough to even the score. And as far as stealing via legal contract, compound interest, or good old treachery, that strategy has been in effect since "time immoral", son. That's why the folks at the top of the food chain "has the gold", certainly NOBODY makes that kind of money working an honest job. Come live in the USA for awhile and you'll soon see that the real criminals are 2nd & 3rd generation Harvard & Yale business graduates. Look at the 2 tier prison system, where the poor criminals go to lock up hell & the white collar ones that have financially decimated tens of thousands of lives go to the "country club" version. Sweden has no hammerlock on evil, it just happens to be the one that personally offended you; EVERYONE else here knows this sniglet of life knowledge already. For corporate evil, try living in a 1930's coal town, shopping only at the company store on company credit, with the company Foremen & Bulldogs enforcing the unwritten self-serving rules. Just like with sex, your generation (or geographic location) isn't the discoverer of venality either...you are about 100,000 years too late for that.
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Blablabla, no gold in Sweden, only a extorsion machine and the gob. Just sit and wait for the gob. check, anything else is pointless. Cuba is a better place, atleast the weather is good as well as the cigars. ;) Good luck joining the Swedish mafia, the terms and contract might be somewhat flexible.
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" Blablabla, no gold in Sweden, only a(n?) extorsion machine and the government, just sit and wait for the gob. check...The Swedish mafia always wins."
So which is it, broke or affluent? Those "Gob cheques" don't appear from nowhere. The Swedes are living OK, you don't read about people being scraped up off the ice with the aid of a steam cleaner too often. They seem to maintain a reasonable military presence to discourage those borsch & caviar eaters across the Gulf too. Sounds like a lot of "sour-grapes blablabla" to me.
" Good luck joining the Swedish mafia, the terms and contract might be somewhat flexible. "
The join-up criteria always seems to be a question of commitment, rather like hiring onto a large truck manufacturer like Scania or Volvo, just piss test clean, show up every day, hit it a lick, get along with others and never make the Company look bad. As far as various "mafias" go, I've heard they all have a retirement plan "to die for"...your chosen company was likely no different.
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The Bolsheviks in there definitely have retirement plans to "kill" for. Parasitic scum.
Company is chosen for you. ;) You are quite an optimist. Fu#k heads want to know what you do 24/7.
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Bol·she·vik : /ˈbōlSHəˌvik/ :
HISTORICAL - a member of the majority faction of the Russian Social Democratic Party, which was renamed the Communist Party after seizing power in the October Revolution of 1917.
DEROGATORY - (in general use) a person with politically subversive or radical views; a revolutionary. {Interestingly to me this would nicely cover todays Alt-Reich movement...being that they are radically out-of-step with the majority perspective...}
The Bolsheviks in there definitely have retirement plans to "kill" for. Parasitic scum.
Transformative political events don't happen arbitrarily. The Bolsheviks were a response to the oppressive Czar rule that preceded 1905. There wasn't anyway to go but up, so the first volunteer to lead that was "a'gin the Tsars" was an improvement. There was nothing reasonable about either system, but the Bolsheviks sounded better than still being under the God-Emperors lethal thumb.
" Company is chosen for you. "
You are telling me with a straight face that a large corporation has no hiring criteria? Not my experience at all.
F-heads want to know what you do 24/7.
"...get along with others and never make the Company look bad." I'm sure some more than others, especially quasi-management Engineer types. ::)
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/bolsheviks-revolt-in-russia
In the early 1900s, Russia was one of the most impoverished countries in Europe with an enormous peasantry and a growing minority of poor industrial workers.
Much of Western Europe viewed Russia as an undeveloped, backwards society. The Russian Empire practiced serfdom—a form of feudalism in which landless peasants were forced to serve the land-owning nobility—well into the nineteenth century. In contrast, the practice had disappeared in most of Western Europe by the end of the Middle Ages.
A population boom at the end of the 19th century, a harsh growing season due to Russia’s northern climate, and a series of costly wars—starting with the Crimean War (1854-1856)—meant frequent food shortages across the vast empire.
Large protests by Russian workers against the monarchy led to the Bloody Sunday massacre of 1905. Hundreds of unarmed protesters were killed or wounded by the czar’s troops. The massacre sparked the Russian revolution of 1905, during which angry workers responded with a series of crippling strikes throughout the country.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bolshevik
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/bolsheviks-revolt-in-russia
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/arnold-schwarzenegger-donated-25-tiny-homes-to-homeless-veterans-and-their-pets/ar-AAS9Nt2
The Bolsheviks have a point though, to count on the charity of private individuals who profited largely by opportunities, safety, infrastructure and education a country has provided seems like hoping for the Santa to come and bring you an ton of gold.
The tiny homes are good, restructuring and some reforms might have been better. I could imagine alimony often feels more like a spit in your face than anything. ::)
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" The Bolsheviks have a point though, to count on the charity of private individuals who profited largely by opportunities, safety, infrastructure and education a country has provided seems like hoping for the Santa to come and bring you an ton of gold. "
In 1917 it was highly unlikely that Tsarist Capitalists would voluntarily restructure their economy to better suit the needs of the general population. If by "Bolsheviks" in the current year of 2021 you mean the Alt-Reich, which are the only major group that are espousing radical political views, they seem to be more bent on constructing an alternate reality to justify their aggressive behavior. A great many of the folks buying in to Alt-Reich BS seem to be upper-middle-class, intent on not letting anyone else get a chance to move up. That's irrational as they are nowhere near the economic level of the folks that actually run the show. It's another case of contact magic or imitative magic, where pretending to be something leads to the actualization of that fantasy.
Reforms? How about stopping the transfer of massive generational wealth. Why should an accident of birth allow you to start out life with millions of dollars? How is that reasonable or desirable to society as a whole? At best you should be allowed an education and some seed money, maybe one years median salary for your country. You then go on to prove your worth by individual effort, not by dragging a "biggo box of Daddys money" around. Even starting with seed money gives you a considerable advantage. The continuous, absurd whining about the "Death Tax" where you actually get taxed on inheritance above $5M is unbelievable. How many people does it actually apply to, and how is it even a problem to be taxed on "free money" over $5M USD? If the idea is to concentrate wealth, we're so there. Breaking the chain puts that cash back into general circulation, "floating all boats" as it were. If a person starts life with a paid-off college degree and a years worth of income and fails, that's a personal problem. Being born into wealth doesn't make you superior, or competent, just lucky. Do you want your society run by dilettantes or folks that have some skin in the game?
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You can now get booked on your E-bike by an E-patrol-car ...
https://www.drive.com.au/news/new-york-orders-ford-mustang-mach-e-police-cars
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/28/ford-mustang-mach-e-is-first-ev-to-get-a-michigan-state-police-pursuit-rating/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zsEh038bLo
(https://cleantechnica.com/files/2021/10/Police-Testing-Mach-E-e1635319994355-2048x707.jpg)
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Shocking! If you get stopped a second time, do you get recharged? If you bump into the Police EV, is that a case of battery? If the cops are non-binary, does that make it an AC/DC cruiser? Enquiring minds need to know... :o
This is awesome. A little duct tape on the license plate & you are home free. All you need to do is either run hard for 20 minutes or 20 miles, then watch as they coast to a stop & wait for the "Jump-Truck", likely an old rusted out motorhome with a 454 & big generator in the back. Sweet... I wonder if they'll catch fire after a high speed run like the V10 Viper Chrysler sports cars? It takes a whole lotta amperes to make 250-300 HP in pursuit. The winter road salt won't be kind to the under hood electronics either.
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Shocking! If you get stopped a second time, do you get recharged? If you bump into the Police EV, is that a case of battery? If the cops are non-binary, does that make it an AC/DC cruiser? Enquiring minds need to know... :o
This is awesome. A little duct tape on the license plate & you are home free. All you need to do is either run hard for 20 minutes or 20 miles, then watch as they coast to a stop & wait for the "Jump-Truck", likely an old rusted out motorhome with a 454 & big generator in the back. Sweet... I wonder if they'll catch fire after a high speed run like the V10 Viper Chrysler sports cars? It takes a whole lotta amperes to make 250-300 HP in pursuit. The winter road salt won't be kind to the under hood electronics either.
;D
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How about a Cake scooter designed for the delivery of stacks of pizza boxes: https://thepack.news/cake-at-ces-2022-us-introduction-of-cake-work-series-of-electric-motorbikes-for-last-mile-delivery-many-and-other-professional-applications/
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There's room there for a Pre-Unit 4 speed box so the motor wouldn't need to put out max power at zero RPM with no fan cooling.
Just for fun, the cheap 3-5 HP AC VFD units have an internal DC power bus component. By stacking batteries you could drive a 240 or 480 AC VFD, putting out 3 phase power, so a standard 3-phase, 5HP off the shelf motor would work fine. A transmission allows the motor to normally operate between 50% to 150% of rated speed, functionally doable with off-the-shelf motors. 240V worth of batteries gets you into Tesla Supercharger territory, so likely a 5-10 minute pump-up period on a small bike. ABB and many others have "cheap" VFDs available. That CAKE "Tote-Goat" would be a nice platform layout, easy to modify or replicate in mild steel & with off the shelf minibike bits. There are many yard appliance batteries that make 40 - 70 VDC now, so that shouldn't be too hard to sort. Throttle is a cheap rheostat, most VFDs have LOTS of tricky engine braking functions, even reverse. A 480VDC minibike anyone?
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There's room there for a Pre-Unit 4 speed box so the motor wouldn't need to put out max power at zero RPM with no fan cooling.
Just for fun, the cheap 3-5 HP AC VFD units have an internal DC power bus component. By stacking batteries you could drive a 240 or 480 AC VFD, putting out 3 phase power, so a standard 3-phase, 5HP off the shelf motor would work fine. A transmission allows the motor to normally operate between 50% to 150% of rated speed, functionally doable with off-the-shelf motors. 240V worth of batteries gets you into Tesla Supercharger territory, so likely a 5-10 minute pump-up period on a small bike. ABB and many others have "cheap" VFDs available. That CAKE "Tote-Goat" would be a nice platform layout, easy to modify or replicate in mild steel & with off the shelf minibike bits. There are many yard appliance batteries that make 40 - 70 VDC now, so that shouldn't be too hard to sort. Throttle is a cheap rheostat, most VFDs have LOTS of tricky engine braking functions, even reverse. A 480VDC minibike anyone?
There were a few electric scooter companies that have developed automated battery exchange stations that were being used in some densely packed Taiwan and South Korean cities a few years ago. I don't know if they remain in business.
About a year ago I saw a report and video about another electric scooter startup company in a South American city that planned to have their battery exchange system integrated with a few established gas station operations around town where depleted batteries could be exchanged by the station attendants with fully charged ones. I also don't know how this business turned out. A lot of these companies have good ideas that just don't financially pan out after a couple of years - if that. ???
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Looks like a fuel cell "Hybrid"; the small FC recharges real time usage-demand batteries.
eCargo hydrogen fuel cell bikes to begin real-world test in Aberdeen ; January 6, 2022
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=rm&ogbl#inbox/FMfcgzGmtNbPdKZjbhzXcLkjKSpNlmhN
The H2 vehicle to be used in this testing period, called the EVAH2Cubed eCargo bike, work the fuel cell directly into the powertrain. The electricity generated through that process is stored in a small number of batteries. The process creates only water as its emission. Therefore, provided that green H2 is used as the vehicle’s fuel, it can be considered to be greenhouse gas emission-free.
https://eav.solutions/
https://eav.solutions/ecargo/
EAV Promo video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsSm76ktC7A
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/move-electric/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cargo-bikes-be-trialled-aberdeen
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Hydrogen is dead. Meanwhile also Hyundai stopped all H2 development.
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Are you on drugs or just trolling? Only German car makers are minimizing H2 as a viable fuel, actual auto producers are all over it.
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/nexo
https://automobiles.honda.com/clarity-fuel-cell
https://www.toyota.com/mirai/
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/21/by-land-sea-and-air-gm-to-expand-fuel-cell-business-beyond-evs.html
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/kias-first-hydrogen-electric-vehicle-is-military-hydrogen-fueled-electric-vehicle/
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Maybe you should stop drinking blue colour.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltaylor/2021/12/31/hyundai-freezes-third-gen-hydrogen-fuel-cell-ev-development/?sh=412990f13588
https://thedriven.io/2021/06/23/honda-discontinues-clarity-hydrogen-fuel-cell-and-plug-in-hybrid/
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/07/gm-not-planning-hydrogen-powered-consumer-vehicles-for-the-time-being/
https://thekoreancarblog.com/2021/09/09/kias-first-hydrogen-vehicle-wont-arrive-till-2028/
Only Toyata is still involved. In the false hope they could afford to pass EVs. That also changed recently.
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Maybe you need to climb out of the dark pit of despair & nihilism. Enjoy the blue news. Nobody needs an oil well to make H2, there's always that. If the idea is to decarbonize, H2 can get you there, your country isn't an energy hostage. H2 provides a mechanism to store in-country produced renewables cheaply. There is a price to be paid when you depend on a 3rd party for your energy, especially one that may not have your best interests in mind.
https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/nexo
2022 Hyundai Nexo
As the sole hydrogen-powered SUV, the Hyundai Nexo is in a class of its own
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1132633_honda-clarity-plug-in-hybrid-is-gone-after-2021-but-clarity-fuel-cell-will-linger-into-2022
https://pressroom.toyota.com/zero-emissions-in-style-2022-toyota-mirai-pricing-announced/
https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/gm-enters-fuel-cell-business-power-navistar-trucks/
Updated: Oct 4, 2021 - GM’s plan to go all-electric will rely primarily on battery technology, there is growing interest in hydrogen power, especially by established manufacturers like Hyundai and Toyota, as well as start-ups such as Nikola Corp., since fuel-cells offer a number of potential advantage for use in heavy-duty trucks, starting with longer range.
“Hydrogen fuel cells offer great promise for heavy-duty trucks in applications requiring a higher density of energy, fast refueling and additional range,” Navistar Chief Executive Persio Lisboa said this week as he announced plans to bring the new International RH Series of fuel-cell trucks to market during the 2024 model-year.
https://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/ford-focus-fcv/
https://www.reliableplant.com/Read/4219/ford-rolls-out-plug-in-hybrid-with-hydrogen-fuel-cell
https://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/ford-super-chief-truck/#:~:text=The%20tri%2Dflex%20fueling%20system,of%20torque.
Ford F-250 Super Chief Tri-Flex Fuel Truck
Since the day Henry Ford introduced the Model A, the world discovered a love affair with the open road. Until now, that open road has meant the mass consumption of fossil fuels.
The Ford Company recently rolled out a prototype truck that provides a reason for a whole new generation to rejoice. The Ford F-250 Super Chief is a prototype that takes the best of nostalgic design features and blends them with the world’s first Tri-Flex capabilities that allow drivers to utilize their fuel of choice.
Ford Super Chief F-250 Tri-Flex Fuel Pickup Truck
Ford designers have introduced a new supercharged v-10 engine with a tri-flex fueling system that allows users to enjoy a choice of three different fuels including gasoline, E85 ethanol or hydrogen. Because the Super Chief offers these choices drivers have the comfort of knowing they can still find fuel as the ethanol and hydrogen infrastructures are developing. In a tri-flex fueling system owners can utilize any or all of these fueling options using the same engine and only the flip of a switch.
The tri-flex fueling system on the Ford F-250 Super Chief allows operators to go 500 miles between total refueling with the supercharger activated only when using the hydrogen fueling system. The hydrogen system also provides 400 lb.-ft. of torque.
https://www.motor1.com/news/523654/h2x-warrego-ford-ranger-fcev/
More than a year ago, H2X announced its aim to put Australia on the map when it comes to producing hydrogen fuel-cell EVs. With a lineup consisting of a van, minibus, tractor, and SUV, H2X wants to put one of these emission-free vehicles on the road by July 2021.
Obviously, that didn't happen because of funding woes but that doesn't mean H2X Australia is out of the picture. Now back as H2X Global with funding coming from Liberty Energy Capital, the firm introduces its first vehicle, the Warrego, based on the T6 Ford Ranger but with no direct harmful effect on the environment.
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Ford also rolled out the F-150 Lightning. A BEV and they cannot produce enough for the demand.
The first 15 BEV Semi trucks from Tesla are deliverd this month to Pepsi.
GM sold all their 2022 production of the electric silverado within 10 minutes
And these are no prototypes to cash in subsidies. These are real sales of existing vehicles, no prototypes, no aim, no plan, no promise, no rejoice, no announcement.
Just Toyota is selling the Mirai. If you want to order, you get the following message: "Out of Stock. But not out of reach.
Right now this vehicle isn't available in your region. Contact your dealer for more information."
Climb out of your red and blue H2 pit. Your news are no news, just worthless squack.
BTW: Storing H2 is very expensive and has a high loss. The production of H2 is also expensive and not very efficient.
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" Storing H2 is very expensive and has a high loss. The production of H2 is also expensive and not very efficient. "
Let's see. Electricity off peak is anywhere from 1/3rd to 1/20th of peak rates. The P2G round robin cycle is presently around 40%. 100MW of 3AM wind power at $30 per MWHr is worth $3000. 40MW at 2PM is worth $300/MWHr, $12,000. 12K > 3K, yes? What option do you think wind & solar producers would choose if they had storage?
H2 stores in oil wells & salt domes just like natural gas. If they were that leaky, there wouldn't be any gas left underground. Using existing storage is cheap. Building special cryogenic or high pressure storage is not.
GM is building H2 fuel cells. I know that's uncomfortable for you, but even they know batteries are too limited for real work.
https://www.gmhydrotec.com/product/public/us/en/hydrotec/Home.html
The only squawk here is from a guy that won't believe that others can do what he cannot. Germany has demo P2G installations at Falkenhagen. IF Batteries had the energy density and longevity of chemical energy it would be a different story, but they don't. For short haul application they work OK, for 300-600 miles, or even 1200 miles, not so much. That's why GM is using fuel cells in long haul trucks. It's faster to "gas up" than recharge a battery. Freight won't wait.
Utilities like batteries because they have a lifespan and need to be replaced at intervals. It's all about the Capital Spend rate of return. Existing piping into an oil well or salt dome lasts a very long time and is relatively cheap to replace when finally needed.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/germany-approves-900-mln-euros-green-hydrogen-project-2021-12-23/
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/hydrogen-levels-in-german-gas-distribution-system-to-be-raised-to-20-percent-for-the-first-time/https://www.powermag.com/windgas-falkenhagen-pioneering-green-gas-production/
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When you generate H2 by electrolyse, you lose 50% of the energy at once. Take in some losses of the process, you are at an efficiency of around 42% max. Then comes the losses of pumping and cooling and transporting the H2. Another 10%. And in the car the fuel cell just works with 30% efficiency.
If you store the electricity in large battery banks, you just loose 2%. Another 2% for transport.
Thats the difference. And dont forget that a plant that generates H2 needs constant energy, as it is a continuous process. It does not like On/Off, it is expensive and slow to start the process of generating H2 before it runs. ZigZag electricity from Wind or Solar is exact what these plants dont want.
If you pump H2 in salt or through pipelines, the losses are enormeous. And the H2 destroys the pipeline steel and all seals.
And GM does not use fuel cells. They are just playing with prototypes, gathering subsidies. Like anybody else did until they stopped this foolness.
So just more marketing squack, promises, visions, wannabees. Knowledge is something else than gathering some links with google and painting them blue.
BTW: In your world trucks seem to run 1200 miles per day? The Tesla Semi can drive 500miles. It can charge while load/unload. And after 8 hours drive the drivers have to rest for at least an hour. Enough to recharge the truck with the Megacharger. Using electricity is much cheaper per mile than Gas/diesel. And the lower maintenance costs are a good add on. No need for any costly and inefficient H2.
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The other problem with H2 is what do you do when you build a station at great cost and then no one wants to operate it and no one wants to use it?
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Correct. Around 1/3 of all installed hydrogen stations are out of order. And nobody cares.
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@ #391: " Thats the difference. And dont forget that a plant that generates H2 needs constant energy, as it is a continuous process. It does not like On/Off, it is expensive and slow to start the process of generating H2 before it runs. ZigZag electricity from Wind or Solar is exact what these plants dont want. If you pump H2 in salt or through pipelines, the losses are enormeous. And the H2 destroys the pipeline steel and all seals. "
You don't really know how the Grid operates. You also choose to ignore history & research on H2 blending with natgas & other fuel gasses. "zigzag power" is what P2G mitigates by normalizing load & providing market opportunities. You also don't seem to understand how salt domes are used to store natgas & H2. If H2 ate all seals & containers, how can you explain the existing commercial above ground H2 storage systems with thousands of steel tanks, valves, piping, tubing & seals? These things set out the in the weather for years and don't dissolve. As far as pumping thru pipelines, what exactly do you thing the natgas folks are doing? As far as electrolyzer efficiency, I like actual researched sources, not ax-grinding vitriol. I already told you that round-trip P2G efficiency is about 40%, but as the "fuel is free" for PV & Wind, and we're talking off-peak demand times, so what? Use it somewhere or it's gone. How smart is it really for Germany to depend on Putin & Gazprom? Do you want that worthy to be in control of your economy?
https://www.gazprom.com/projects/germany/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2018/07/19/how-dependent-is-germany-on-russian-gas/?sh=64c41193b489
But in 2015 Germany imported 35% of its gas from Russia. About the same amount, 34%, came from Norway. 29% came from The Netherlands.
But there is reason to believe that the Russian proportion will go up. Germany is the world’s biggest natural gas importer, having to bring 92% of the gas it consumes in from outside the country. The few gas fields that Germany has will likely be completely depleted within the next decade
But looking only at gas gives a distorted impression of Germany’s energy mix, because gas accounts for only around 23% of Germany’s primary energy use. Germany also gets its energy from nuclear, renewables, coal and oil – little of which comes from Russia.
Germany gets its nuclear and coal energy domestically. But Chancellor Angela Merkel has vowed to phase out both of those energy sources within the next decade. The country has an ambitious renewable energy expansion program in place called the Energiewende which is designed to replace those energy sources with solar and wind. But sceptics say it is more likely to be replaced by Russian gas – hence the economic imperative of the new Nord Stream II pipeline which Trump criticised at the NATO summit.
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy13osti/51995.pdf
https://www.carboncommentary.com/blog/2017/7/5/hydrogen-made-by-the-electrolysis-of-water-is-now-cost-competitive-and-gives-us-another-building-block-for-the-low-carbon-economy#:~:text=Very%20roughly%2C%20a%20new%20electrolysis,reforming%20is%20around%2065%25%20efficient.
Very roughly, a new electrolysis plant today delivers energy efficiency of around 80%. That is, the energy value of the hydrogen produced is about 80% of the electricity used to split the water molecule. Steam reforming is around 65% efficient.
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Germany gets its nuclear and coal energy domestically. But Chancellor Angela Merkel has vowed to phase out both of those energy sources within the next decade. The country has an ambitious renewable energy expansion program in place called the Energiewende which is designed to replace those energy sources with solar and wind. But sceptics say it is more likely to be replaced by Russian gas – hence the economic imperative of the new Nord Stream II pipeline which Trump criticised at the
Who would possibly know what moved Merkel to any decisions? In Europe the wind blows sometimes from the West than from the East. Maybe she just wanted to do the american petrol heads a favour, shutting down coal and nuclear power would make the electric mobility a lesser viable option? - side effects left asside as always.
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@ #395: Well spoken - strategic decisions aren't generally broadcast. In the USA we don't need to, because as far as I can tell there isn't any strategic plan, we just do whatever the industry lobbyists tell us to do. :(
H2 blending at 10% to 15% seems generally regarded as safe, and 20% mixes have been used in the past with minimal leakage & end user concerns. The NREL study talks about this, but every country has no doubt looked at it. Somewhere in this mess of back & forth I saw the 20% number mentioned for German efforts. Why this isn't problematic I can't say, maybe the small H2 molecules spend more time slaloming between the CH4 molecules than pressed against the steel casing leaking out. Maybe the CH4 tends to bond them enough that they tend to stay put, I dunno, that's a job for the Chemistry & Physics wizards to explain. All I can say is that across the board intellects "vast, cool & unsympathetic" have kept arriving at these same numbers over time. Being able to supplement 20% of your stored natgas with domestic production H2 seems like a good thing if some "furrin' asso" decides to put the screws to you & squeeze off your natgas supply. Blending provides renewable energy storage, so if you intend to go all renewable and not shut off the lights at night you need to store energy. The current HRSG generation facility plants that we already have sited & operational can produce an amazing 60% reconversion efficiency, on par with fuel cells, especially during cold weather when the Heat Rate is low (BTU/KWH) because the condenser efficiency is higher. More "suck" in the condenser means less turbine backpressure, which means the Delta P across the turbine is higher for the same fuel burn. More zoomies out for less fuel in. Going pure H2 is a different ballgame, but just blending H2/natgas 10% to 20% is low hanging fruit and provides ready made Utility grade renewable energy storage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_rate_(efficiency)
https://www.vng-gasspeicher.de/en/storage_types
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Blended H2 gas is nothing new. Germany had this in their piplines in the 50/60/70 years. It was called "Grubengas". Because it was gathered form the coalmines and transported in pipelines to the households to cook and heat. After the colapse of the coal industry it was replaced by natural gas.
But this blended H2 is just useless for cars. And if you have to produce the H2 (and not just get it as an addon from coalmines), it makes the heating use of the gas more than double as expensive.
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I don't know about the storage of H2, viczena makes lot of sense there. However, i remember someone talking about using all that abundant nuclear and cole power to create methan - ch4. First by creating h2 than using the co2 from the atmosphere to create ch4 + 2o2, or something like that. Don't remember the source, however storing methan might be a lot easier than h2. All that process is probably not very efficient though and might be interesting only if you've got a lot of energy to vaste. Well you could take that energy that's used for crypto mining for example, might do it. ;D
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Methane is easier to store and use. Much easier. But it is also very expensive to produce, compared to primary energy sources. Most of methane production in the world is done by the petrochemical industry.
Tesla tries to build a methane factory in small scale which is easily transportable, that produces methane (and O2) out of CO2 and Water. This device will produce liquid fuel for their starships. Price does not matter in this case.
BTW: When was the last time you saw "abundant" nuclear and cole power?
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BTW: When was the last time you saw "abundant" nuclear and cole power?
It's been always priced and taxes as much as the market could bear, under any regime. ;)
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Nuclear & coal energy is not renewable energy. Pitchblende & Coal are mined, whatever energy that's in them is fixed.
Converting stored Nuclear or Coal energy to another form of stored energy is wasteful.
PV converts sunlight to electron flow as long as the sun light strikes the panel. Panel service life can run from 20 to 80 years, with efficiency dropping to 80% of new after 25 years. There's no actual maintenance associated with PV other than occasional cleaning.
Wind turbines are mechanical devices, so there is wear & maintenance. The consensus seems to be a 25 year life span is "normal".
As long as you have "surplus" energy, carbon & hydrogen, you can build any hydrocarbon you want with modern tech.
Hydrogen is easily electrolyzed from water and can be used directly as fuel, chemical feedstock, or blended to increase BTU content & reduce CO2 emissions of natgas.
Fossil generation is used to stabilize the grid as "baseload" because it's predictable. Using off-peak renewable capacity for H2 production normalizes grid loading and provides storage of an intermittent energy source. Rather than having 1000 MW of wind offline because of resource scheduling, it can be used for H2 production in blending or cavern storage application. Frequency & load are controlled & coordinated by the grid coordinating body of the country you are in. Weekend PV is excess of required need can likewise be used, again controlled by the appropriate grid coordinating body. Germany already has cavern storage, you just need some commercially available electrolyzers.
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It is expensive and inefficient to produce H2 with electricity. It is an easy process, but the machinery you need are expensive and and quite sensitive. The expense for keeping this production safe is also enourmous.
Storing H2 in caverns is also not an easy task. In germany they now built a test cavern for that purpose. They use 160 steel pipes down to 1000m deep. Not knowing if this construction will even last.
Surplus energy is much cheaper and lot more efficiently stored in battery packs. No need for H2 at all.
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You aren't really getting this. Natgas & H2 storage has been done in developed salt domes/"caverns" for a very long time. The access piping is already there, the cavern is already there. I've already demonstrated how the differential between peak & off peak pricing can financially drive the process. The beauty of P2G & H2 blending is that you get to use your existing generation "for free", no mountain of rotting batteries needed, no new large scale multi-megawatt inverter stations needed. Germanys salt caverns won't wear out. Your HRSG plants can if need be even run on pure H2 with proper modifications. Batteries are a very pricy way to store energy compared to cavern storage of gas.
Batteries here are used as peakers, their output is sold at maximum price during heavy demand and there isn't much of it to sell. All of the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of batteries in California could support the grid for maybe 15 minutes out of a 24 hour day during high usage times, which they can't because there isn't enough attached inverter capacity to drive it. Blending allows renewables to add up to 15%-20% to the stored energy gas supply directly as fuel and conversion happens with existing generation hardware. Even with electrolyzer inefficiencies, RE producers can see a better RoR any time Peak vs. Off Peak rate differential exceeds about 2.5:1, which it normally does. That's what will drive the process.
https://www.vng-gasspeicher.de/en/storage_types
" Our cavern storage facilities are manmade, hollow spaces which have been created in underground salt deposits. We drill into the deposits, dissolve the salt present using water and transport it above ground. What remains is a cylindrical cavity with a diameter of up to 100 meters and a height between 50 and 500 meters. These caverns are located hundreds of meters below the earth's surface – in Germany as deep as 2.5 km below the surface. The thickness of the salt domes and their properties guarantee the caverns' natural impermeability making additional linings, such as those needed in stone caverns created by other types of mining, unnecessary. "
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But you understand (or you dont, as usual?) that we speak about storing pure H2? Not the 10% mix which can only be used for heating?
Storing pure H2 in caverns is an enormous and expensive task. And makes the gas for household heating double in price, if the H2 is not comming from coal mines..
And because you seem to love to recite german google: https://www.ewe.com/de/presse/pressemitteilungen/2020/12/ewe-bernimmt-bei-wasserstoffspeicherung-vorreiterrolle-ewe-ag
They now build the first test cavern for H2. 500 cubikmeter (a single family home), needs around 2 years to build, costs over 10 Mill Euros. All paid by the taxpayer. Of Course.
This cavern can stor 5 tons of H2, The amount that a single H2 converter in the petrochemie produces in one hour.
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Just some calculation for the H2 cavern they build now. 5t of H2 equals 150MWh. You need 400MWh to produce it. They intend to use 15 Wind turbines to produce the H2. Every one of them has 1Mw power.
So all 15 turbines together have to run 27h full power to fill the reservoir. So in reality four days of good wind. Just producing for the cavern.
If you use the H2 in cars, the efficiency is 30%. So you can use 50 MWh in the cars. So you produced 400MWh just to deliver 50MWh.
If you want to backup 50MWh in Tesla megapacks today, it would cost you around 19 Mill Euros. Less than the cavern and the H2 producing facility. And with much less maintenance costs (around 60k Euros/year). And it is the price of today, batteries get cheaper every year. The turbines can fill the battery pack 8 times faster.
And no environmental survey needed. No danger zone. No 24/7 security staff. H2 is quite explosive. Remember the Hindenburg desaster or Fukushima. You need large salt deposits in the earth if you want to build a cavern. Rather rare occasion.
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H2 was actually the propulsion for both the second and third stages of the Saturn V Apollo moon landing rockets:
https://www.space.com/18422-apollo-saturn-v-moon-rocket-nasa-infographic.html
https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/513855main_ASK_41s_explosive.pdf
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These lunatics even used liquid H2 in very large quantities. Real big cochones.
"Hydrogen has a very broad flammability range—a
4 percent to 74 percent concentration in air and 4 percent to
94 percent in oxygen; therefore, keeping air or oxygen from
mixing with hydrogen inside confined spaces is very important.
Also, it requires only 0.02 millijoules of energy to ignite the
hydrogen–air mixture, which is less than 7 percent of the energy
needed to ignite natural gas"
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These lunatics even used liquid H2 in very large quantities. Real big cochones.
In terms of the Saturn V " ... the second stage carries 260,000 gallons (984,000 liters) of liquid hydrogen fuel and 80,000 gallons (303,000 liters) of liquid oxygen ... " :D
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In terms of the Saturn V " ... the second stage carries 260,000 gallons (984,000 liters) of liquid hydrogen fuel and 80,000 gallons (303,000 liters) of liquid oxygen ... " :D
That is a lot of very cold liquid. :o
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The corporate bean counters of Air Liquide, a major multinational commercial business, chose the cheapest most functional method to store pure H2! :o They simply followed what 100 years of industrial history told them already worked, who knew?
https://www.airliquide.com/sites/airliquide.com/files/2017/01/03/usa-air-liquide-operates-the_world-s-largest-hydrogen-storage-facility.pdf
Paris, January 3, 2017
www.airliquide.com
Follow us on Twitter @airliquidegroup
USA: Air Liquide operates the world’s largest hydrogen storage facility
Air Liquide has recently commissioned the largest hydrogen storage facility in the world, an underground cavern in Beaumont, Texas, in the Gulf Coast region of the U.S.
This unique hydrogen storage cavern complements Air Liquide’s robust supply capabilities along the Gulf Coast, offering greater flexibility and reliable hydrogen supply solutions to customers via Air Liquide’s extensive Gulf Coast Pipeline System.
The underground storage cavern is 1,500 meters deep and nearly 70 meters in diameter. The facility is capable of holding enough hydrogen to back up a large-scale steam methane reformer (SMR) unit for 30 days. Hydrogen is typically reformed from natural gas, since it is present in very small quantity in the air. As such, it is of great benefit to have a large, interconnected storage solution to optimize supply to customers reliably and efficiently. Hydrogen is used in the refining process to desulfurize fuels and in a number of other industrial and manufacturing processes.
Hydrogen’s environmentally sustainable benefits go beyond its industrial applications. As clean energy, hydrogen used for mobility powers fuel cell vehicles with zero emissions, and can be stored and used to help manage electric grid demand.
This new hydrogen cavern follows the commissioning of Air Liquide’s first pure helium storage facility in Germany in July 2016. These initiatives illustrate Air Liquide’s innovative technologies and engineering capabilities to provide a reliable supply chain.
https://industry.airliquide.us/air-liquide-welcomes-us-secretary-energy-jennifer-granholm-its-porte-tx-hydrogen-facility
Air Liquide Welcomes U.S. Secretary of Energy Jennifer Granholm to Its La Porte, TX Hydrogen Facility
News | May 27, 2021
Secretary Granholm’s first official travel outside of Washington, D.C. since her confirmation as Secretary of Energy earlier this year. Secretary Granholm’s visit will include a briefing on Air Liquide’s innovation and investments in the advancement of hydrogen, a tour of the La Porte facility and the opportunity to meet with employees.
The La Porte Industrial Complex, which was commissioned in 2011, produces gaseous hydrogen and steam-generated electrical power. It is Air Liquide’s largest hydrogen production facility in the U.S., capable of producing up to 125 million cubic feet per day. The La Porte facility is connected to Air Liquide’s extensive hydrogen pipeline network, which totals more than 200 miles and includes our 3 billion cubic feet hydrogen storage cavern.
“We are honored to welcome Secretary Granholm to the Air Liquide La Porte Industrial Complex, an anchor of our Hydrogen Production System on the Gulf Coast,” said Mike Graff, Chairman & CEO of American Air Liquide Holdings, Inc. “Hydrogen is essential for the transition to a low-carbon energy economy. While creating thousands of American jobs, hydrogen will help transform the current energy system by providing a reliable, affordable, secure and versatile low-carbon energy source. We look forward to continuing our decades-long partnership with the U.S. Department of Energy and are encouraged by this Administration’s support for advancing private investment and accelerating the deployment of low-carbon and renewable hydrogen. Air Liquide shares the Administration’s commitment to ensuring hydrogen plays a critical role in the Clean Energy Transition as the U.S. continues its energy leadership in the 21st century.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/01/how-salt-caverns-may-trigger-11-trillion-hydrogen-energy-boom-.html#:~:text=Caverns%20can%20be%20created%20in,water%2C%20which%20dissolves%20the%20salt.&text=Hydrogen%20electrolyzers%20can%20convert%20water,reconverted%20to%20electricity%20when%20needed.
Storing fuel in salt caverns isn’t new, but hydrogen’s growing role in decarbonization has revitalized interest in the concept. The U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve has long stored emergency crude oil in underground salt caverns on the Gulf Coast, and notes they cost 10 times less than aboveground tanks and 20 times less than hard rock mines. The Reserve has 60 enormous caverns, typically 200 feet in diameter and 2,500 feet tall, and one “large enough for Chicago’s Willis Tower to fit inside with room to spare.”
Caverns can be created in salt domes by drilling into the salt dome and injecting the rock with water, which dissolves the salt. The resulting brine is extracted, leaving a large cavity. The next step is storing hydrogen in the cavern. Hydrogen electrolyzers can convert water into hydrogen by using renewable energy from solar and other sources. The hydrogen can then be stored, and reconverted to electricity when needed.
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That is a lot of very cold liquid. :o
Probably the main reason that United did not purchase a fleet of Saturn V boosters for Moon Landing tourism and sight seeing operations
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@410: Again you do what you do best: Just recite some google links without really understanding anything (same as CNBC). The desastrous inefficiencys dont change if you make H2 caverns larger.
Air liquide uses this cavern to store H2 for their methane production, that is on site. It is a buffer storage for their production. Nothing more. The hydrogen itself is generated by a generator which transforms natural gas. These giants can produce up to 9t of hydrogen per hour.
So just as a buffer in the production the inefficiencys dont matter. They are paid for by the product: Methane. Which is 4 times as expensive as Diesel, if you would use it as a propellant for vehicles (as methanol).
As a buffer to store energy the H2 caverns are completely foolish.
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And again you fail completely open when presented with evidence contrary to your mantra. Renewable energy is intermittent, it needs to be harvested when it happens, it cannot be mined or pumped as needed. Storage makes capture and later utilization possible.
The CNBC article talks about RE production curtailment:
“California curtailed between 150,000-300,000 MWh of excess renewable energy per month through the spring of 2020, yet saw its first rolling blackouts in August because the grid was short on energy,” says Paul Browning, CEO of Mitsubishi Power Americas."
All of that lost capacity could have been converted & stored. Curtailment guaranteed that it was lost. Conversion electrolyzers and cavern/well storage are the tools needed.
You also seem to be confused about what Air Liquide is actually doing. Methane (CH4) from oil wells is "reformed" to strip off the H2, they aren't making & storing methane. This is "blue hydrogen", a darling of the petro folks. The article clearly states that the Air Liquide salt cavern is storing hydrogen.
https://www.airliquide.com/sites/airliquide.com/files/2017/01/03/usa-air-liquide-operates-the_world-s-largest-hydrogen-storage-facility.pdf
The underground storage cavern is 1,500 meters deep and nearly 70 meters in diameter. The facility is capable of holding enough hydrogen to back up a large-scale steam methane reformer (SMR) unit for 30 days. Hydrogen is typically reformed from natural gas.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-production-natural-gas-reforming
As Germany is at the mercy of Russian gas supplies, I don't see your hesitation to try to remediate that. Curtailed or off peak renewables can be stored if you have the equipment. Having the Russians control your economy could have very bad consequences. A good argument can be made that opposing storage of domestically sourced H2 is more of a pro-Russian stance; Germany needs to have ready energy alternatives. You aren't going to start up a "mothballed" coal or nuke plant in a usefully short timeframe. It's clear that salt cavern storage of H2 is valid and economic. It's also clear that storing low cost energy that is otherwise lost is a matter of national energy security. Germany doesn't have a Texas to fall back on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream
Nord Stream (former names: North Transgas and North European Gas Pipeline; Russian: Северный поток, Severny potok) is a system of offshore natural gas pipelines in Europe, running under the Baltic Sea from Russia to Germany.
The Nord Stream projects have been fiercely opposed by the United States and Ukraine, as well as by other Central and Eastern European countries, because of concerns that the pipelines would increase Russia's influence in Europe, and because of the knock on reduction of transit fees for use of the existing pipelines in Central and Eastern European countries. The builders contend that the pipeline is more important to Germany than Russia, which could just as easily sell the gas to China and other Asian nations.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/01/how-salt-caverns-may-trigger-11-trillion-hydrogen-energy-boom-.html#:~:text=Caverns%20can%20be%20created%20in,water%2C%20which%20dissolves%20the%20salt.&text=Hydrogen%20electrolyzers%20can%20convert%20water,reconverted%20to%20electricity%20when%20needed.
“The formation has the potential to create up to 100 caverns, each one capable of holding 150,000 MWh of energy,” says Browning. “It would take 40,000 shipping containers of batteries to store that much energy in each cavern.”
European ambitions
Despite their storage potential, low operating cost and the fact that underground salt distribution is well known, only a handful of salt caverns have been created to store hydrogen. However, the concept is quickly gaining momentum in Europe, where the European Commission sees the share of hydrogen in Europe’s energy mix rising from under 2% as of 2019 to 13-14% by 2050.
Funded by the German government, the HYPOS alliance of over 100 companies and institutions aims to build a salt cavern in the Central German Chemical Triangle in Saxony-Anhalt with about 150,000 MWh of energy from wind power-generated hydrogen. Regulators are now reviewing the plans and when filling begins in 2023 or 2024, it could be continental Europe’s first hydrogen storage cavern, according to Stefan Bergander, a HYPOS project manager. Meanwhile, French gas utility Teréga and Hydrogène de France have agreed to launch the HyGéo pilot project in a disused salt cavern in southwestern France’s Nouvelle-Aquitaine region; it will store about 1.5 GWh of energy, enough for 400 households for a year.
“Underground storage, in salt caverns or in porous media (i.e., in aquifers or in depleted oil and gas fields) is the only way to cope with big storage capacities,” says Louis Londe, technical director at Geostock, a French company specializing in underground storage. “Many hydrogen cavern projects for energy storage are blooming in Europe. At present, they are at the design stage. Not surprisingly, the leading countries are those where salt is the most present: Germany, U.K., Ireland, France, Netherlands.”
Europe has enough salt formations on and offshore to theoretically store about 85 petawatt hours of hydrogen power, according to a study published this year in the International Journal of Hydrogen Energy. The figure is hypothetical, and doesn’t take economics into account, but for example, 1 PWh of hydrogen is enough to supply today’s electricity demand in Germany for an entire year, says Dilara Gulcin Caglayan, lead author of the study and a scientist at the German research center Forschungszentrum Jülich’s Institute of Energy and Climate Research
“Our calculations show that without implementation of hydrogen salt caverns, there’s no cost-optimal pathway to achieve our climate goals,” says the institute’s deputy director Martin Robinius, a coauthor of the study. “By 2040, we will need a lot of hydrogen salt caverns, but if we don’t start building them now, we won’t be able to build them to scale to meet those goals.”
As part of its goal to be climate-neutral by 2050, the European Commission recently produced a hydrogen roadmap saying rapid, large-scale deployment of clean hydrogen is key for the European Union to lower greenhouse gas emissions by at least half by 2030, adding that “Investment in hydrogen will foster sustainable growth and jobs, which will be critical in the context of recovery from the COVID-19 crisis.”
“The issue of storage is, of course, key to delivering energy transition and in this respect hydrogen and hydrogen technologies have a critical role to play,” says Jorgo Chatzimarkakis, secretary general of Hydrogen Europe, an alliance of about 250 companies and research organizations that has called for Covid-19 recovery investment of €55 billion ($65 billion) in salt cavern storage to 2030 to build hydrogen capacity of 3 million metric tons. “Large scale hydrogen storage facilities, mainly salt caverns and possibly some empty gas fields, need to be part of hydrogen infrastructure.”
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It only shows that you are able to use cut & paste. Great. My 5 year old newphew is able to do the same.
Yes, alternative energies are Flip-.Flop. And the produce power shortages, as long as they are not buffered. But H2 is not appropriate for this task, as it is much too inefficient. And even today the adequate amount of battery storage is cheaper. And not as dangerous as H2.
Germany and the EU throw insane amounts of cash into this dead technology. In the false hope they could gain some leadership in something. While they lost the BEV battle completely. No surprise germany already has the highest energy prices in the world, loosing production capability every day.
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You can't expect the members of the European Committee to invest in something that's got the potential to make life easier for anyone but themselves. This is the folks that fear work, especially manual labour like the devil fears holywater.
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It only shows that you are able to use cut & paste. Great. My 5 year old newphew is able to do the same.
Yes, alternative energies are Flip-.Flop. And the produce power shortages, as long as they are not buffered. But H2 is not appropriate for this task, as it is much too inefficient. And even today the adequate amount of battery storage is cheaper. And not as dangerous as H2.
Germany and the EU throw insane amounts of cash into this dead technology. In the false hope they could gain some leadership in something. While they lost the BEV battle completely. No surprise germany already has the highest energy prices in the world, loosing production capability every day.
To say any technology is dead may not be accurate and possibly a disservice , quite often they are one breakthrough away from becoming viable. If first go rounds are imperfect and we throw are hands up and say it's a dead end then we will never advance whatever the research. If this were the case we wouldn't have electricity, something for example that got off to a slow start with many missteps, and much money spent to no avail, still we got there, it's way to soon to be calling hydrogen a dead technology. Our technical advances world wide were not built on defeatist attitudes.
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You canot breakthrough the laws of physics. H2 is dead.
Now is my time for an indirect argument (as simple math and the laws of physics obviously does not do the trick): If H2 is such a good idea, why does everybody leave the sinking ship? Toyota is now the only respectable company, that did not delete H2. They invested a lot, and got subsidies from the legislation. Its just a matter of time, until also Toyota leaves. As soon as they can do it without loosing face.
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You canot breakthrough the laws of physics. H2 is dead.
Now is my time for an indirect argument (as simple math and the laws of physics obviously does not do the trick): If H2 is such a good idea, why does everybody leave the sinking ship? Toyota is now the only respectable company, that did not delete H2. They invested a lot, and got subsidies from the legislation. Its just a matter of time, until also Toyota leaves. As soon as they can do it without loosing face.
So corporations losing subsidies and an opportunity for a quick turn around on profit is the bottom line and the true indicator of the viability for hydrogen? No one in that sphere of influence is in it for the long haul, it's all about profit, when someone else comes along and makes it work they'll be all over it
Laws of Physics? When the steam locomotive came along there was the worry that the speeds it was capable of would cause it to disintegrate. You might have fit in well with that crowd. Science has been a history so far of theory, research, setback and revision. It's all about breaking barriers that were once deemed impossible. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
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In contrary, subsidies are rising. The EU throws out an insane amount of money. But not even Tesla wanted their subsidies. They refused to take their 1bill $ subsidy for the battery factory.
Laws of physics: If you produce H2 by electrolyse, you lose half of the energy. If you put this H2 into a fuel cell, you will never get more than 35% back. Simple thermodynamics. If you can call it simple at all.
If you are able to brake these laws, you have found the perpetuum mobile. Good luck hoping for that to happen.
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H2 is dead.
Almost as dead as this thread, buried as it is under pages of arguing about topics not even tangentially related to E-bikes.
Which seems regrettable to me, since it's unlikely that any future visitor will have the patience to wade through 27 pages of unrelated arguments, to find the very few posts actually about electric bicycles.
As every politician knows, the best way to kill an initiative is not to argue against it, but to bury it under unrelated BS, to fillibuster.
Maybe those folks wanting to read about electric bicycles will be better served by searching through these threads on hydrogen fuel:
https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=6305.msg71398#msg71398
https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=30906.msg369987#msg369987
https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=32249.msg393660#msg393660
When I started this thread, I had high hopes that folks would share my interest in discussing the details of what is becoming a mature technology. Bicycles are THE most energy efficient method of transportation, often said to be the most efficient machine man has ever created. Brushless DC motors are very efficient in their own right, robust and versatile, with a high power to weight ratio. Together, they create what is in my view, a very interesting transportation solution.
Look at a representative sample of what is available in mountainbike motors in 2021:
Mfg Model Torque (N-M) Weight (kg)
Bosch Performance Line CX 85 2.79
Brose Drive S Mag 90 2.98
FAZUA Ride 50 Evation 55 1.92
SACHS RS 110 3.66
Shimano EP8 85 2.57
Specialized SL 1.1 35 1.95
TQ HPR 120 S 120 3.90
Yamaha PW-X2 80 3.06
https://ebike-mtb.com/en/the-best-emtb-motor-review/
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It is a thread in "Campfire Talk", so topics might go sideways.
Nevertheless, the most interesting E-Bike at the moment seems to be the VARG by starkfuture.com. 80hp and 938 Nm torque. Though it still lacks the possibility for fast charging.
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You canot breakthrough the laws of physics. H2 is dead.
Now is my time for an indirect argument (as simple math and the laws of physics obviously does not do the trick): If H2 is such a good idea, why does everybody leave the sinking ship? Toyota is now the only respectable company, that did not delete H2. They invested a lot, and got subsidies from the legislation. Its just a matter of time, until also Toyota leaves. As soon as they can do it without loosing face.
Can't wait to see the face saving. Just wonder if Toyota H2 man choose the mail box or the katana. Doubt there's anyone left willing to take their blame anymore.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57760993
H2 is not dead though, Atoms don't die neither law of physics.
I find certainly interesting that while covid-19 is considered god given, Germany is still in search of the responsible folks that caused the flooding last year.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/german-police-conduct-raids-connection-floods-82194301
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del
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In contrary, subsidies are rising. The EU throws out an insane amount of money. But not even Tesla wanted their subsidies. They refused to take their 1bill $ subsidy for the battery factory.
Anecdotal, can you give me something to back these claims? Do you function at a high level of government or industry to be privy to ALL of this information? I've yet to see anyone turn down a 1bill subsidy when they can quietly squander it on other things. Also the EU is just that, a union. You seem to be painting with a pretty broad brush here.
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I am not the one to google links, cut&paste and paint them blue. You can do that yourself, if you are really interested. Not difficult.
For that I just needed 10 sec: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/26/tesla-decides-against-state-aid-for-german-battery-plant-as-musk-opposes-subsidies.html
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OK, so batteries but no mention of hydrogen, what's the connection to hydrogen that you say everyone is running away from?
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These are all seen as alternative energies and the subsidies are from the same source. But even as the money is sprinkled like water, nobody really wants them.
In the case of H2: Mercedes canceled, VW canceled, Scania canceled, BMW canceled.
Another 10sec search: https://www.cliffordchance.com/content/dam/cliffordchance/briefings/2021/04/focus-on-hydrogen-eu-funding-programmes-for-energy-projects.pdf
You should be able to do this by yourself.
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Another quick find: City realises HYDROGEN costs 6X more than EV, cancels order . Because of the price of operation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSeTHOCHryc
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The cost per se isn't a issue if you have customers to pass it on, now who would want to pay 6 times the bus ticket for the "privilege" of being transported in an H2 bus. Add some comfortable seats, good AC and some entertainment system to the bus and you are more likely to get some customers willing to pay a premium for the ride.
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i would prefer to be transported in a self driving BEV car, for 1/4 of the cost.
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i would prefer to be transported in a self driving BEV car, for 1/4 of the cost.
I would prefer to transport myself in a rwd sporty coupé. Individual mobility makes it possible, a bus is always a fishy compromise on someone.
I want to see that BEV capable of doing it at 1/4 of the cost. ;)
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Breaking up is hard to do. ;D
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(http://)
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more
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Some 10 years ago i paid to the swedish "authorities" about 200$ for exceeding the speed limit of 100km by 5kmh.
The autonomous BEV is just a tiny step away to make a break through in that country. All they need to do is to upgrade the traffic monitoring systems with the latest tech.
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Looks like the still unavailable Tesla Semi has to carry around about 15,000 pounds of batteries (1 MWHr) to Git 'r Dun.
The still absent Megacharger, as per the electrek article, would supposedly deliver 400 miles of range in 30 minutes. This is interesting.That is about 0.8 MW in 30 minutes, or a sustained rate of 1.6 MWHr. On the 13,800V local distribution side that's only about 116 amps 1 phase or 70 amps 3 phase. The lowside gets grimmer. 1.6 MW of DC at even 480V is 3300 amps, obviously less at higher voltages but I haven't seen any specs on the new vehicles battery operating voltage. That's a lot of unforgiving DC amps, or even possibly AC amps, for a random truck driver to connect up with absolutely reliably everytime. Then there is the interesting question of intermittent grid loads of 1.6 MW for the Utility, as from their perspective 200-400 homes just appeared on their distribution grid. In large City Commercial distribution systems will likely be OK, Rural one not so much. Now we're talking infrastructure changes again, just like for H2, unless the Tesla Semis are just used short haul.
The Extremetech article also illustrates that it takes about 600 pounds of fuel to drive a conventional rig 500 miles, the maximum Tesla Semi range. {15,000/600= 25:1} A standard 80,000 load becomes an additional 15,000 pounds, or 95,000 more for the Tesla.
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/259195-tesla-semi-500-mile-range-cheaper-diesel-quick-charge
Based on vehicle battery packs in use now, we know lithium-ion battery packs of at least 50 kWh weigh about 15 pounds per 1 kilowatt-hour of stored energy. So if the Tesla Semi uses 1.5 kWh per mile and travels 500 miles, that means the battery is 750 kWh and weighs 11,250 pounds. If consumption is closer to 2.0 kWh per mile, the battery at is as much as 1,000 kWh — 1 megawatt-hour — and 15,000 pounds.
Maybe Tesla will find some economies of scale, but the weight of the Tesla Semi is going to include at least five tons of lithium-ion batteries. In comparison, a 6 mpg diesel tractor-trailer would use about 600 pounds of fuel on a 500-mile trip. Long-haul tractors carry enough fuel to go at least 1,000 miles, or two-plus days of driving, with 250-gallon fuel tanks (1,700 pounds)./font]
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-electric-semi-truck-delayed-again-2022-now-2021-7
https://electrek.co/2021/10/12/tesla-deploying-first-megacharger-charge-tesla-semi-electric-truck/
The YouTube reference was a riot, as the presenter never mentions where the H2 bus order that was cancelled happened, you are just expected to accept at face value the presenters statements. Sound familiar? Anyway it was in France.
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/01/11/french-city-cancels-hydrogen-bus-contract-opts-for-electric-buses/Now, La Tribune says new city president Michaël Delafosse has decided to discontinue the project as the financial calculations underlying the proposed joint venture have not turned out as expected. Specifically, the city calculates it would cost them 95 cents per kilometer for the hydrogen fueled buses versus 15 cents per kilometer for battery-powered buses. In addition, the cost of the fuel cell-powered buses was between €150,000 and €200,000 more than the cost of battery-powered buses.
Derottones comment "The cost per se isn't a issue if you have customers to pass it on" is on point here.
( 15 cents / 30 passengers = 0.5 cents per km) (95/30= 3.2 cents per passenger per km)
A ticket is 2 Euro. A Carnet allows 10 tickets for 15 Euro, a 5 day pass is about 38 Euro. It's unlikely you'd travel over 50 km per day around the city, so the maximum "cost" to the city is likely under (250 x 5 cents = 12.5 Euro) even for the H2 wondermachine, still lots of margin, especially if you are trying to "decarbonize" the energy supply. The real argument here is the upfront cost of the hardware, which I have seen over 60+ years is normally the real driver for most decision makers. And it's also the driver for the H2 car stagnation. A $60K Mirai weighs about 4,000 pounds and travels about 300 miles on a full fuel load and has extremely limited fuel access. A $30K Nissan Leaf weighs about 4000 pounds and travels maybe 200 miles on a full charge. A $60K Tesla Y weighs about 4500 pounds and has a theoretical range of 300 miles but a practical one of about 220. Guess which is the best seller? Who would have suspected that people will tend to buy the cheapest example of an item they can find? Walmart? Harbor Freight?
https://www.auto123.com/en/news/best-selling-electric-cars-world-nissan-leaf-tesla-model-s/65617/
Since each model has been in production, Nissan has sold 363,940 units of the LEAF, while Tesla has moved 243,200 units of its Model S. This is particularly impressive when you consider the price difference between the two models. Yes, the Tesla targets a different audience, but it’s remarkable nonetheless.
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-y
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@ #435: Even here the authorities can issue tickets for violating the speed cameras. The new EVs are a lot more connected, should be simplicity itself to fully automate the traffic ticket system for them. I wonder if the new self-driving Tesla self reports if you put it on the "aggressive" driving setting?
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The Tesla Semi is exactly 2 tons heavier than the Diesel counterparts. That is allowed by legislation. In the EU a BEV truck may weight 2 tons more than an ICE truck. And over 95% of all truck transports are not limited by maximum weight, but by size.
Several megachargers are already installed and running. Rumors say, that the comming Cybertruck can also use them. The first 15 Semis are delivered to Pepsi in January.
Meanwhile the Tesla Y outsold the Nissan Leaf by far. Comparing the Leaf to the Model S is BS.
Even colouring your infos does not make your completly outdated infos correct.
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Any links to your information? It's good to be able to look at the same info. But colouring in the infos make them easier to recognise as quotes, yes?
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/how-much-does-a-semi-truck-weigh#:~:text=The%20unladen%20weight%20of%20a,weight%20of%20about%2035%2C000%20pounds.
The GVWR includes the weight of the truck, cargo, fuel, passengers, and anything else on board or attached to the vehicle. Under US federal law, the maximum laden weight for semis is 80,000 pounds. Some heavier-duty trucks may have a higher GVWR for safety, but it remains illegal to load them past 80,000 pounds.
The unladen weight of a semi-tractor can vary between 10,000 and 25,000 pounds, depending on how powerful the engine is, how much it’s designed to tow, and whether or not it’s a sleeper cab. An unladen 53-foot trailer weighs about 10,000 pounds, accounting for a total unladen weight of about 35,000 pounds.
https://electrek.co/2021/08/13/tesla-semi-electric-truck-weight-on-point-crucial/
https://insideevs.com/news/525765/tesla-semi-payload-comparable-diesel/
As for the battery tech, many analysts and experts estimated in 2017 that Tesla would need a 600 kWh to 1,000 kWh battery pack to produce the Semi’s 300-mile (483-km) and 500-mile (805-km) variants. Since a 600 kWh pack weighs about 8,000 pounds (3,629 kg), it would eat into payload as Class 8 trucks have a total weight capacity limit of 80,000 pounds (36,287 kg).
However, Tesla argues it has made notable advancements in battery tech since the Semi’s unveiling, including the introduction of the 4680 battery cells. Since these cells are lighter but have a higher energy density, they could reduce the Semi’s weight, therefore making higher payloads possible.
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Google it yourself. And dont use links older than 6 weeks. Citing links from 2019 is awkward.
And read the whole information. The french busses themselves (for example) were heavily subsidized by the government and the EU, so they would get it for a very good price. That was the main reason why they did not calculate the running costs in the first place.
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"As for the battery tech, many analysts and experts estimated in 2017..." . What shitty infos do want to present next? In blue, of course.
It seems that blue means: Beware, this is shit.
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As long as they are using natgas sourced power for battery charging, decarbonization isn't in the picture, which is one big reason to go EV. Here's what Holland, that like Germany also doesn't have much of a Texas, are doing to try to maximize their independence from Gazprom & Russia. A platform mounted electrolyzer will allow blending & storage for later use of otherwise lost wind energy into the natgas stream heading shoreward.
https://www.neptuneenergy.com/esg/new-energy/poshydon-hydrogen-pilot
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@ 441: Really? Battery tech is vastly better in 5 years?
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You are right. Nothing happened in battery technology in the last 5 years. Sleep on. Its getting obvious that you know next to nothing about the things you write.
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Any numbers? Any objective verification? Like this article showing 100% from 1990's to 2010, then maybe 50% from 2010 to 2022?
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/eternally-five-years-away-no-batteries-are-improving-under-your-nose/
So where’s the proof that all this has been going on behind the scenes? If you look, the data bears out a number of trends. Energy density has a prominent trend. The original commercial lithium-ion battery, produced by Sony in the early 1990s, had an energy density of under 100 watt-hours per kilogram. That number has climbed over time, with the familiar cylindrical 18650 cells on the market hitting 200 watt-hours per kilogram by 2010. According to BloombergNEF, batteries used in electric vehicles have gotten as high as 300 watt-hours per kilogram in the last couple of years.
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First find in google: https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/22/everything-you-need-to-know-about-teslas-new-4680-battery-cell/
The PosHydon pilot: It costs around 10Mill Euros, the Netherland pays 3.6 Mill out of it. It will produce 400kg/day max. That is the worth/cost of 2000 Euros per day. If it would be clean H2. But it gets mixed into the natural gas they are pumping out of the North sea. So they just add 400kg of burnable gas for household each day. So the value is decreased to 480 Euros, while the cost of producing keeps at 2000 Euros. Great achievement. 1500 Euros lost every day. And this pilot is not even running. All this could cost much more in the end.
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All those fine automotive companies you mentioned though are building ridiculous battery factories at the expense of the taxpayer and the folks that keep the bussiness afloat. How just is that, why not giving the H2 men their way too. ;)
Did you see how much a normal stinker cost from any of those conglomerates?
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Tesla rejected to get subsidies for their battery manufacturing. 1 Billion Dollar. The only other automobile manufacturer who is building its own Batteries is BYD. China.
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Tesla rejected to get subsidies for their battery manufacturing. 1 Billion Dollar. The only other automobile manufacturer who is building its own Batteries is BYD. China.
https://www.di.se/live/scania-miljardinvesterar-i-batterifabrik-i-sodertalje/
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/12/29/first-li-ion-battery-rolls-off-northvolts-swedish-production-line/
...all they can do is sink cash in the ground, everything else would be corrupt.
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At the moment you can sell every battery pack you can produce. For a good price.
Something different than useless H2 pilot projects. Which produce 1500 Euro deficit every day.
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At the moment you can sell every battery pack you can produce. For a good price.
Something different than useless H2 pilot projects. Which produce 1500 Euro deficit every day.
The "good" news is that those factories are merely assembly plants which means should the battery cells reach the required performance one day the plants will be able to upgrade.
Who are the buyers though? The scrap yards? Some R&D projects? The crowd in Monaco with deep pockets? Some arabic Kingdom's?
In general I'm opposed to scale up the production of something when there is no solution that meets the criteria for a successful market launch. If you can't get the advantage of it being a novelty and pioneer like Tesla, you may have to seek a wide audience. That isn't possible with a battery that's high priced neither competitive to alternatives. I can drive my car on ethanol all day long and it will do the job still better than any BEV at s lower cost while being 100% CO2 free.
I rarely get my hands on vehicles with the "highest" top speed, or the "best" acceleration. So those marketing arguments don't work for me either.
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I doubt it. Ethanol is quite costly and brings just 70% of gas. Driving with BEV is much cheaper. Even in germany.
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I doubt it. Ethanol is quite costly and brings just 70% of gas. Driving with BEV is much cheaper. Even in germany.
I´m not sure I understand what you mean, however from experience I can tell you that the electric "varg" or better said wulf works in sweden only if you have no bullet at your hand.
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@ # 446: It's a pilot project, yes? Blended H2 reduces net carbon emissions and improves fuel BTU content. 1 MW (400 kg) worth of H2 into a gas field line would likely be hard to measure. Current commercial PEM electrolyzers take around 50KW per KG of H2. Optimally a 1 MW electrolyzer makes about 20 Kg/Hr of H2, times 24 hours, 480 Kg. Poshydon claims 400 Kg and it's their data, but some agreement. Offshore Dutch wind production cost is 5-8 cents/KWH, so at a median 65 Euro/MWHr for 24 Hrs. you end up at roughly 1560 Euros "cost", and by your numbers 480 Euros "profit". In energy curtailment situations (high wind, minimal demand) there is no profit accruing to the windfarm owner as his equipment is idle. Intermittent sources are sidelined in favor of more predictable sources such as nuclear, natgas & coal for grid stability. The windfarm (or even suitable PV farm) owner can, by using the available electrolyzers, still easily store unsalable energy as a natgas blend inside the natgas transport & storage system, allowing participation during a higher usage time. Without the electrolyzers and gas line access, this isn't going to happen. Standard industrial volume & concentration metering hardware make billing possible.
https://www.offshore-energy.biz/netherlands-grants-poshydon-offshore-green-hydrogen-project/
The goal of the pilot is to gain experience in integrating energy systems at sea and the production of hydrogen in an offshore environment. In addition, the efficiency of an electrolyser with a variable supply from offshore wind will be tested.
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If you would read more, you could read that the offshore production of H2 costs over 5$ per kg H2 (their own claim). And yes, it is not profitable. Not even close. Industrial H2 out of gas costs 2,5 $ per kg. And es still not near as cheap as electricity.
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H2...maybe not quite as dead as you'd like. Daimler & Hyzon are demonstrably moving forward. Daimler's Daum had interesting things to say also. Being able to make your own fuel may become a big deal if 30% of the existing supply becomes unavailable soon. The Linde test plant article is focused on "decarbonizing" natgas, but they that mention H2 blends in existing infrastructure from 5% to 60% are possible without massive changes, just like was already known in the 1920's or so. It's good to have a back-up plan.
27 October 2021
https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/news-and-insights/press-releases/bp-and-daimler-truck-ag-to-accelerate-the-deployment-of-hydrogen-infrastructure.html
Daimler Truck has the ambition to offer only new vehicles that are CO2-neutral in driving operation (“from tank to wheel”) in Europe, North America and Japan by 2039. The company is focussed on both CO2-neutral technologies, battery power and hydrogen-based fuel-cells. Currently, the truck manufacturer is testing a new enhanced prototype of its Mercedes-Benz GenH2 Truck on public roads in Germany. The first series-produced GenH2 Truck are expected to be handed over to customers starting in 2027.
Daimler Truck has a clear preference for liquid hydrogen. In this state, the energy carrier has a far higher energy density in relation to volume than gaseous hydrogen. As a result, the tanks of a fuel-cell truck using liquid hydrogen are much smaller and, due to the lower pressure, significantly lighter. This gives the trucks more cargo space and a higher payload. At the same time, more hydrogen can be carried, which significantly increases the trucks’ range. This will make the series version of the GenH2 Truck, like conventional diesel trucks, suitable for multi-day, difficult-to-plan long-haul transport and where the daily energy output is high.
12 November 2021
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/12/too-risky-to-not-use-battery-and-hydrogen-tech-daimler-truck-ceo.html
In his interview with CNBC, Daum was asked about the debate between battery electric and hydrogen fuel cell. “We go for both because both … make sense,” he replied, going on to explain how different technologies would be appropriate in different scenarios.
“In general, you can say: If you go to city delivery where you need lower amounts of energy in there, you can charge overnight in a depot, then it’s certainly battery electric,” he said.
“But the moment you’re on the road, the moment you go from Stockholm to Barcelona … in my opinion, you need something which you can transport better and where you can refuel better and that is ultimately H2.”
“The ruling is not out, but I think it’s too risky for a company our size to go with just one technology.”
https://hyzonmotors.com/
12 January 2022
https://www.h2-view.com/story/hyzon-motors-record-87-deliveries-of-hydrogen-fuel-cell-heavy-duty-trucks-in-2021/
20 December 2021
https://www.sustainable-bus.com/fuel-cell-bus/fuel-cell-buses-winter-olympic-china-2022-zhangjiakou/
" These vehicles will be used in transportation and logistics during the Olympics. Xinhua points out that 655 fuel cell buses are to be deployed in China during the 2022 Winter Olympic Games. Such a giant fleet is going to be put in operation in Zhangjiakou city, as the state-backed Xinhua News Agency reported on Monday. Currently, there are 444 hydrogen fuel cell buses in operation in Zhangjiakou, covering nine bus routes in the city. They have run more than 21 million km and carried more than 62 million passengers. "
20 January 2022
https://www.h2-view.com/story/linde-starts-up-worlds-first-plant-for-extracting-hydrogen-from-natural-gas-pipelines/
Linde Engineering is showcasing how hydrogen can be separated from natural gas streams at a first of its kind full-scale pilot plant in Dormagen, Germany.
John van der Velden, Senior Vice-President Global Sales and Technology at Linde Engineering, said, “The HISELECT® demonstration in Dormagen allows us to display essential technology for transporting hydrogen via natural gas pipelines in a real-life setting. It shows a way to leverage existing infrastructure. “In doing so we avoid the high costs and the long process that would be involved in building a dedicated hydrogen pipeline infrastructure.”
Looks like this EWE operation is intended for FCV usage, otherwise purity wouldn't be a big issue.
https://www.ewe.com/en/shaping-the-future/hydrogen/storing-hydrogen
"...the cavern will be filled with hydrogen for the first time in spring 2022...EWE expects initial findings in the second half of 2022 regarding how storage affects the purity of the hydrogen and how the integration of hydrogen into the German energy supply system can succeed. The test in Rüdersdorf is designed to look at the use of hydrogen in mobility, focusing on how storage affects the quality of the hydrogen. Before being used in heavy-duty transport, it goes through a drying plant to remove moisture from storage. "
Plan "B" may be LOHC if you don't have a cavern. "The corresponding saturated compound is thereby formed, which can be stored or transported under ambient conditions."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_organic_hydrogen_carriers
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/construction-and-operation-of-the-worlds-largest-project-plant-for-storing-green-hydrogen-in-liquid-organic-hydrogen-carrier-in-germany/
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I wonder if anyone has considered really really big elastic bands.
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Here is the latest from BMW (don't forget to bring your fat checkbook): https://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/bmw/2022-bmw-ce-04-review-first-ride.html
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#456: If I want to travel from Stockholm to Barcelona, I need an airplane, not H2.
Ambition to offer new vehicles in 2039? Scary.
And liquid hydrogen? Really? 3 centigrades above zero? A nightmare to produce, store and keep safe. Nothing more expensive than that. And if you are really storing and transporting liquid H2, why not use superconductive motors? You already did the most expensive part of it.
600 H2 busses In Xinhua? The CCP will pay every money for prestige projects in the olympics. Despite 300.000 Electric buses already on the streets in China.
The rest is will be, wanna be. Germany throws sackloads of money in useless H2 developments. Shure there will always be grateful recipients for that money. With perfect marketing squak. Getting nice press releases, that again feeds the popularity of the politicians. All paid by taxpayers money.
The only places you see H2 technology is where money does not play a role, because the taxpayer is financing everything. But even in this case sometimes the polititians wake up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSeTHOCHryc
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIlW-ovx0Y
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In this BMW promotional video regarding the design of the CE 04. The presenter mentions their selection of a long flat seat as allowing the rider to adjust his/her position while riding and not be forced into one location by the contoured design of the seat. (Just like the way motorcycle seats used to be designed many years ago. Still not a bad idea. ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TimIdXXmkYk
Here is a link to a BMW promotional video regarding the technical design of the scooter. I found the technology and build quality impressive, as you might expect from BMW. The 5-year warranty is also a nice feature. However, the design of the accessory saddlebag doesn't get me too excited. Perhaps offering a removable hard case also would be a good idea. Also shown was a taller windscreen, which certainly could be larger to offer better protection. Interestingly there was no mention of weather protection, which you would think would be important for a scooter mostly designed for city usage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUrRL979gHk
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@ # 459: ??? " Ambition to offer new vehicles in 2039? "
Alongside battery electric vehicles, Daimler Truck is also focusing on what it describes as “hydrogen-based fuel cell electric vehicles.” To this end, it is targeting a network of 150 refueling stations and 5,000 “heavy-duty hydrogen trucks” by the year 2030.
" If I want to travel from Stockholm to Barcelona, I need an airplane, not H2 " Nice out of context response! ::) The article was referencing heavy long haul truck needs.
" The only places you see H2 technology is where money does not play a role "
Yup - like that Air Liquide H2 storage cavern in Beaumont Texas. I doubt that private enterprise picks the most expensive way to do anything.
Or these operational Aussie projects:
https://www.hydrogenenergysupplychain.com/dawn-of-australias-hydrogen-industry/
Today’s arrival of the world’s first liquefied hydrogen carrier, the Suiso Frontier, in Victoria marks the success of the Hydrogen Energy Supply Chain (HESC) Pilot Project and the dawn of Australia’s hydrogen industry.
ATCO has a microgrid project that has been operational since 2019 in Jandakot, Western Australia.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/hydrogen-power-plant-would-already-be-profitable-analysts-say/
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As long as you pretend on german and aussie promises, you are doomed. Painting that helpless effort in red and blue does not make it better. As does repeating old wishful thinking.
H2 is on demand as long as there are large subsidies. At the moment you have to pay at least your operational cost by yourself you find out, that it costs 6 times more than BEV.
And a lot of people ask the question, where we get all the energy for the BEV cars and trucks from. If so, where do we get 4 times more of that energy to produce and use H2?
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@456: Daimler is currently run by the swedes, and the CEO is a swede. What they going to do or probably already did is squeeze the cash cows as much as possible up till and beyond the breaking point, stuff all money into pointless project's like the H2 vehicles and infrastructure, that not going anywhere however good for filtrating cash into the pockets of choice. The remains may in the end land up being sold to the chinese.
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Red and Blue, if you master that tech. you don't need a market of course. Because you have the sea. You make your customers, you break your customers. The only problem is, it's not working out all that well, see Swedotopia and the cooperation between tech and medical companies, want to see the result go visit that place. You can see the "problems" and the "solutions".
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In this BMW promotional video regarding the design of the CE 04. The presenter mentions their selection of a long flat seat as allowing the rider to adjust his/her position while riding and not be forced into one location by the contoured design of the seat. (Just like the way motorcycle seats used to be designed many years ago. Still not a bad idea. ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TimIdXXmkYk
Here is a link to a BMW promotional video regarding the technical design of the scooter. I found the technology and build quality impressive, as you might expect from BMW. The 5-year warranty is also a nice feature. However, the design of the accessory saddlebag doesn't get me too excited. Perhaps offering a removable hard case also would be a good idea. Also shown was a taller windscreen, which certainly could be larger to offer better protection. Interestingly there was no mention of weather protection, which you would think would be important for a scooter mostly designed for city usage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUrRL979gHk
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLLTpT8p/
Here you can see that thing doing a burnout. ;D
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BTW, so far all of the BMW motorcycle owners that have commented on the CE 04 in the forums that I visit feel that the BMW designers have hit the CE 04 with an "ugly stick". Clearly BMW relied on Germans engineers instead of Italian artists to design the scooter. ;)
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Im not sure how much bmw ever relied on italian artists to do the design since BMW's always looked somewhat crude. I thought they did a good job on the styling of the R nine T and the R18, unfortunately we don't see many of them around probably due to the price point of putting the green sticker on them.
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BTW, so far all of the BMW motorcycle owners that have commented on the CE 04 in the forums that I visit feel that the BMW designers have hit the CE 04 with an "ugly stick". Clearly BMW relied on Germans engineers instead of Italian artists to design the scooter. ;)
Watcha mean - it looks lovely, delicate lines, subtle elegant curves ... sort of Lego-like but with an oddly Germanic spin to it ...
(https://www.cycleworld.com/resizer/aWcJFlkNoKrHdvDxk1aWMYMfj7M=/1440x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/octane/32NUWNL2HRGMDCU76HE3LIIAOI.jpg)
(https://i0.wp.com/thelegocarblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/screen-shot-2015-09-25-at-15-52-44.png?resize=500%2C439&ssl=1)
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It may take an Italian artist to customise it though...
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Put on a pair of square tires and the look will be complete.
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Put on a pair of square tires and the look will be complete.
Yup, it´s f#c#n#g ungly. :(
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@ 463: More impossible news. Physical reality seems to keep getting in the way of your ardent defense of status quo.
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” Upton Sinclair
Through the "miracle of technology" Kawasaki built a LH2 transport ship using the finest of 1890's technology, the Dewar's Flask, using current tech & materials. After the concept of a supercritical temperature was discovered, it became possible to liquify gasses as the hardware got better.
https://newatlas.com/marine/kawasaki-worlds-first-liquid-hydrogen-transport-ship/
https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/energy-transition/012822-japans-suiso-frontier-sets-sail-for-kobe-with-liquid-hydrogen-cargo
Renewables happen when they happen. Curtailment of intermittent renewable energy also happens by the organizations trying to maintain a stable grid. Storage provides a place for RE to go instead of losing the energy (& profit) acquisition opportunity. I've seen the huge conglomerate Tehachapi Wind farm area start & stop a very few individually owned 1000 acre sections as they bid into & out of the market on a windy weekend day, grid demand low, the entire mountain full of machines largely idle.
Cavern storage of H2 or H2/NatGas blends is the cheapest methodology. The Air Liquide article demonstrated that, something that has already been known for a very long time. Didn't get a lot of acknowledgement on that inconvenient tidbit.
P2G "round trip" efficiency is right at 40% using the tech we already have. Instead of passing up generation opportunities, storage allows curtailed power to become available to the market at a later time. Trading storage of 100 MW at $5/MWHr and selling 40 MW later for $50/MWHr means you come out ahead. Taking power there's no market for and selling it at prevailing rates later is a valid strategy. Increasing the total available power during higher usage time also reduces the price per MWHr to the ratepayer. However, if you are a natural gas supplier or Electrical Utility making good money wheeling in power, blocking that storage option is in your personal financial interest.
Personally I think synthetic liquid fuels ("renewable petro"!?!) are the way to go, as then you already have high energy density, ease of storage, and you don't need to remake the entire transport system. Electric trains are a dirty word in the USA, but Europe and nearly everywhere else have beat that tech into submission. We'll just need to Nationalize rail transport to make it happen, good luck with that. The Petro and Rail folks have great lobbyists. Interestingly the airlines are already looking at synthetic fuels to stave off curtailment. Imagine a Diesel Prius hybrid, simply using their well regarded D4D (with complimentary urea injection!) pulling down 80 MPG on synthetic diesel. I wonder if that would sell in our world of $5 per gallon fuel?
I also think that H2 is a better fuel for stationary generation, as the generation can be sited adjacent to cavern storage. Power transport is easily handled by HVDC at the standard 1,000,000 VDC. HVDC as been around for awhile now, has very low line losses (roughly 0.5% per 100 miles) and would be a great addition to actually creating a National Grid. California has had multiple HVDC lines for years.
People went to the moon 50 years ago using rudimentary electronics and liquid hydrogen rockets. Commercial nuclear power has been around since the 1950's. Beebe & Barton rode their bathysphere to a depth of 3,000 in the late 1920's, a ride most would have reasonably declined. Just because you personally don't know how to do a thing doesn't mean it's impossible, unprofitable or even excessively difficult.
-FIN-
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Yes, they went to the moon. And the endevour cost 1/4 - 1/2 of the gross domestic product. Same if you really want to establish H2 and the taxpayer has to pay the bill.
And why would anyone want to pay 6 times more for H2 than for electric operation? Caverns or not.
Synthetic fuels are the same expensive BS, without change of infrastructure. Everybody who has driven a BEV does not want to return to clumsy ICE. You never want to return to spark plugs you cannot change yourself, turbochargers, radiators, oil, transmission, timing belts, catalyst exhaust, hidden vacuum lines.... The whole expensive and complicated shebang.
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And why would anyone want to pay 6 times more for H2 than for electric operation? Caverns or not.
H2 allows the storage and sale all around the world of the electricity used to create it (as opposed to the more limited market of people on your local grid).
The appeal to petro-chem conglomerates is pretty obvious.
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So you want to add the cost of long distance transport of H2? Good luck.
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So you want to add the cost of long distance transport of H2? Good luck.
That is very much what the Aussie H2 start-ups are proposing. Generate H2 in the desert (not sure where they think the water will come from) with solar/wind and transport it to Europe in specialised H2 freighters.
https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/concept-design-for-world-s-first-compressed-hydrogen-carrier-ship
According to GEV, the H2 ship will have a storage capacity of up to 2,000 tons (23 million m3) of compressed hydrogen. The containment system will include ambient temperature hydrogen at a target pressure of 3,600 psi (or 250 bar). The company anticipates obtaining patents on the ship and its cargo systems.
With the advancement of fuel cell technology for vessels, GEV says it also intends to include engines aboard the ship that burn pure hydrogen to create a zero-carbon shipping solution. While they believe that the size of the vessel will be optimal for the commercial export market, GEV will also evaluate smaller capacity ships for demonstration purposes based it says on specific pilot export projects.
(https://www.maritime-executive.com/media/images/article/Photos/Vessels_Large/GEV-CNG-Optimum-ship.59bc81.jpg)
It is certainly economically viable for natural gas ...
(https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2F7ce718ac-1abe-46a8-abd1-7e2e6e27501a.jpg?fit=scale-down&source=next&width=700)
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Transporting natural gas is something completely different than H2.
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The town where my daughter lives, Fairfax, CA, is going all-in (at least to start) with electric vehicle power according to the newsletter that she sent me. In addition to installing a free L2 electric charging station near city hall, they recently authorized the Town Manager to move forward with upgrading the town's ability to charge more electric vehicles as well as to purchase one 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning CREW CAB 4X4 LIGHTNING PRO EV. Nothing but the best when it is being funded by the taxpayers. ::) Will an electric backhoe be next?
Not a word about H2, though. ;)
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@ # 478: Transporting natural gas is something completely different than H2.
Really? LNG is also a cryogenic liquid. The ships operate very similarly. Even Gazprom has LNG.
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/natural-gas/liquefied-natural-gas.php#:~:text=Most%20LNG%20is%20transported%20by,on%20ships%20and%20on%20trucks.
Most LNG is transported by tankers called LNG carriers in large, onboard, super-cooled (cryogenic) tanks.
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Can you even read? Or understand what you read? LNG is liquid at under -161 deg Centigrade. In the range of liquid oxygen or nitrogen, quite the same as liquid methane. H2 is liquid at under -252 deg Centigrade. Near absolute Zero.
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@ 479: "If you don't build it, they won't come". H2 was already in Fairfax, sorta...
https://cafcp.org/content/fairfax-la
( 2016) http://calenergycommission.blogspot.com/2016/06/fairfax-la-station-joins-hydrogen.html
(2020) https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-bumpy-ride-cleaner-future
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If you build a water pump and charge a hudred bugs per liter, i wait for the rain. ;)
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#479 So once in a while you find a real word experience with H2. But the H2 protagonists will devalue this as "anecdotal". They will throw tons of bought "studies" over you. And keep on promising H2 fueling stations for 400 cars per day. These would not just be expensive, but insanely expensive.
A single H2 fueling station cost more than 3 Million $. For this money Tesla builds 100 350kW Superchargers. And the downtime and the maintenance costs of these chargers are minimal in comparison. And no environmental and security proof needed.
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@ 479: "If you don't build it, they won't come". H2 was already in Fairfax, sorta...
https://cafcp.org/content/fairfax-la
( 2016) http://calenergycommission.blogspot.com/2016/06/fairfax-la-station-joins-hydrogen.html
(2020) https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-bumpy-ride-cleaner-future
That is definitely not the Fairfax located in Marin County, north of San Francisco. That station would take up about half of its downtown. ;)
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@ 481: Do you understand the concept of insulation? The greater the Delta T, the better the insulation needs to be. Are you aware that liquid Hydrogen has been stored in cryogenic containers for over 50 years now, so it's unlikely there are any mysteries left. I fail to understand why you repeatedly assume every technological problem outside your experience is either insurmountable or insolvable, especially when working examples already exist.
The actual existence of the Suiso Frontier was based on the financial calculations of the Japanese consortium wanting the hydrogen. If the numbers hadn't penciled out, there would have been no ship. Norway is looking at their own liquid H2 "container" ship that carries discrete self-contained cryo-units, a little different methodology.
For real fun, these folks in the 1980's even looked at using submarines to transport LNG! That's one way to avoid bad weather. Not a big stretch from LNG to LH2, just insulation quality & en route heat removal capacity.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0165232X83900733#:~:text=A%20submarine%20tanker%20system%20is,Western%20Europe%20and%20North%20America.&text=Both%20submarines%20are%20designed%20to,cargo%20in%20the%20surfaced%20mode.
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The actual existence of the Suiso Frontier was based on the financial calculations of the Japanese consortium wanting the hydrogen. If the numbers hadn't penciled out, there would have been no ship. Norway is looking at their own liquid H2 "container" ship that carries discrete self-contained cryo-units, a little different methodology.
Yeah the Australian Government is taking exporting H2 very seriously. Which is some what odd for a Right Wing very pro-fossil-fuel government that does not really believe climate change is much of an issue.
Perhaps the fact that the Suisi Frontier is transporting H2 created from coal is making the idea a bit more to their taste :) The first load of Hydrogen was collected on 28th February this year and is expected to be delivered to Kobe in Japan in late February.
https://www.offshore-energy.biz/worlds-1st-lh2-carrier-suiso-frontier-picks-up-maiden-cargo/
https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/suiso-frontier-departs-australia-with-first-liquid-hydrogen-shipment
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#486 I know you do not understand the problem. Ok, you are no expert. The nearer you come to absolute zero temperature, the more it costs. This price is going up exponentially. It is not a matter of insulation, it is a matter of materials which get brittle , gaskets that fail and the very expensive pumps and coolers you need to to the job.
Insulation is easy: Vacuum. Dewar bottle. Thermos can. We dont speak of thermal insulation you use on the wall of your house.
And liquid H2 is really dangerous to handle. It acts like a very cold metal. Unlike oxygen, nitrogen and methanol. So it damages everything that is in contact with it. So every Pipe and every pump has to be slowly preecooled to near zero, before they can handle liquid H2.
When you store liquid H2 you use a fair amount of your cargo to constantly cool all the systems. That was also the reason why they tanked up the saturn 5 rocket until the last minute before liftoff. And these tanks only had to keep the H2 for 5 minutes. In this short period they lost around 5-10% of the liquid H2 just by cooling losses.
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Heat that finds its way into a cryovessel is either removed via heat pump or by blowing off some of the contents to chill the remainder of the liquid. The simple blow-off method was used on the rocket tanks. Heat pump hardware is used on the ships so they don't arrive empty.
Precooling the piping precludes the liquid from boiling in the lines and creating thermodynamic pressure spikes. It also lets the hardware contract in a controlled manner. All of your whinging about materials is already resolved by the time it is put into commercial application. The equipment designer provides operating guides for the hardware which are followed out of self preservation. It's bad form to detonate a customers ship.
Apparently you think LNG is "safe" to handle. Bad things still happen when process safety procedures are violated or you are unlucky enough to have a hardware failure. A pressurized combustible cryo-liquid line rupture/failure freezes, suffocates then incinerates any meat puppets nearby, it's the nature of combustible cryo-liquids or even just such mundane materials as liquid propane. Subtracting another hundred degrees just adds to the fun, either way you are dead.
At our plants, H2 was generally stored as a gas, & used for generator cooling. The nice thing about H2 gas is that if it leaks it goes upward, not down like the liquid hydrocarbons tend to. Then the fireball is above you, not below. We did store & use lots of liquid N2 & CO2 for boiler tube purging, generator degassing, etc., and both of those benign substances will blind, cripple or kill you immediately if treated with disrespect.
It is vaguely possible that I have had more practical experience handling & transferring cryogenic liquids while in power generation than you had an opportunity to do in your motorcycle shop.
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I never said that any liquid cooled gas is safe. But liquid H2 is extremely hazardous. And it behaves like a metal. That makes it even more dangerous. The metallic property is also the reason you use H2 for generator cooling.
Shure you have to precool the piping. First with N2 and then you have another 60 degrees to go. Near total Zero, where materials get very strange behaviour.
As long as H2 leaks into open air, it is quite safe. The problem begins, if it enriches in a closed compartment. Like the inner space of a car. From the underlying 800bar pressure tanks.
Shure you use a heatpump for cooling. With H2 it has to operate near zero. That is expensive and complicated.
The probability is nil. Concerning liquid H2. As you just dont realize the difference between liquid N2 and liquid H2.
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You are really stuck on how dangerous hydrogen is. You are really actively advocating against it in a public forum, despite maybe 60 years of widespread industrial and military use. Is this a hobby or is it Gazprom subsidized? So far you have "agreed by silence" that salt dome storage of H2 is cheap, you dismiss any contrary studies as "bought", and don't really acknowledge or maybe understand exactly what it means when renewable energy is "CURTAILED" by system operator needs for grid stability.
"Expensive & Complicated" are relative terms. Most power production hardware falls into that category if YOU or I were footing the bill, but just falls into the "business expense" category for industry.
H2 also isn't a metal at any sane pressure, certainly not anything achievable in a commercial cryovessel. Slush Hydrogen may be what you are referring to, a known phenomenon, most certainly known to the LH2 hardware designers. Hardware selection & design, transfer process procedures and equipment training as always keep the troops alive. Just like in the LNG industry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen#Liquid_metallic_hydrogen
Diatomic hydrogen is a gas that, at atmospheric pressure, liquefies and solidifies only at very low temperature (20 degrees and 14 degrees above absolute zero, respectively). Eugene Wigner and Hillard Bell Huntington predicted that under an immense pressure of around 25 GPa (250,000 atm; 3,600,000 psi), hydrogen would display metallic properties: instead of discrete H2 molecules (which consist of two electrons bound between two protons), a bulk phase would form with a solid lattice of protons and the electrons delocalized throughout.[1] Since then, producing metallic hydrogen in the laboratory has been described as "...the holy grail of high-pressure physics."[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slush_hydrogen
Slush hydrogen is a combination of liquid hydrogen and solid hydrogen at the triple point with a lower temperature and a higher density than liquid hydrogen. It is commonly formed by repeating a freeze-thaw process.[1] This is most easily done by bringing liquid hydrogen near its boiling point and then reducing pressure using a vacuum pump. The decrease in pressure causes the liquid hydrogen to vaporize/boil - which removes latent heat, and ultimately decreases the temperature of the liquid hydrogen. Solid hydrogen is formed on the surface of the boiling liquid (between the gas/liquid interface) as the liquid is cooled and reaches its triple point. The vacuum pump is stopped, causing an increase of pressure, the solid hydrogen formed on the surface partially melts and begins to sink. The solid hydrogen is agitated in the liquid and the process is repeated. The resulting hydrogen slush has an increased density of 16–20% when compared to liquid hydrogen.[2] It is proposed as a rocket fuel in place of liquid hydrogen in order to use smaller fuel tanks and thus reduce the dry weight of the vehicle.[3]
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"hydrogen would display metallic properties". You should read your own links. Even if you paint them blue. Or you dont know how to interpret the periodic table of elements. Something you should have learned early in your live. But maybe you spent your youth with colouring books.
Knowledge is something completely different than Cut&Paste and colouring afterwards.
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Wowzers - I know I did. Metal isn't phase change hydrogen "ice" slush. Not too many 3.6 million PSI high pressure cryovessels commercially available. Those Gazprom checks cash yet? ;D ( You should read your own links - Victrola )
"under an immense pressure of around 25 GPa (250,000 atm; 3,600,000 psi), hydrogen would display metallic properties"
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@ #490: " The metallic property is also the reason you use H2 for generator cooling "
The specific heat of H2 gas is 14.3 J/(g·K). The specific heat of N2 gas is 1.0 J/(g·K). The specific heat of CO2 gas is 0.9 J/(g·K).
Hydrogens dynamic viscosity is roughly half of either N2 or CO2.
The actual reason for use in large generation apparatus is that it is able to remove a lot more heat that other common gasses and create less "windage" or drag losses in the equipment. Nothing "metallic" about it, just a readily available, thin, high specific heat compressible fluid to carry away generator rotor winding I2R derived heating. No magic, just applied science. Metallic hydrogen exists only in ultra high pressure research laboratories.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heat-capacity-d_338.html
Specific Heat Capacity (c) is the amount of heat required to change the temperature of a mass unit of a substance by one degree. Specific heat is a more common term for the same.
Example: The specific heat of iron is 0.45 J/(g K), which means that it takes 0.45 Joules of heat to raise one gram of iron by one degree Kelvin.
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Nice that you found wikipedia, but you do not understand anything. Ask your engeneer, why you use H2 to cool your generators. And not N2, O2, CO2 or some other gas? Or Helium, which is not explosive.
The answer is, that H2 has metallic properties. Easy to see if you would understand things, and not just copy&paste. And colour all blue, which seems to be your favourite and only profession.
And yes: Metals have the property of having a higher specific temp than non metals. How amazing it is. No magic, just applied science.
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...and just like that, we enter the universe of magical thinking. I'm of the opinion it's likely not me that isn't understanding things, you seem a bit hazy on the concept & application of specific heat.
" H2 has metallic properties" Yes, definitely, at 3.6 million PSI.
Before that it's either just a liquid or a gas or an "ice slush", depending on temperature & pressure. H2 gas with its low viscosity & high specific heat is an affordable way to keep modern turbogenerator rotors cool. It's not that hard to comprehend once you accept 200 years of chemical & physical experimentation results. You don't get to make up your own physics. You may want to look up "specific temperature" & see what actually pops up.
H2 gas cools because of convection effects. The generator rotor acts as a fan, sucking H2 into the low pressure rotor center cavities and slinging it radially outward through the rotor windings, providing for gas circulation that can remove rotor heat. This flow of high specific heat gas efficiently carries rotor bar heat into the hydrogen cooler radiator section in the turbine housing, which transfers that heat over to the plant ultrapure hydrogen cooling water system, which is either has its own dedicated mechanical chilled water system or has another heat exchanger which dumps the heat into the regular plant cooling water system. The H2 is contained inside the generator housing by the hydrogen seal oil pressure & labyrinth shaft seals. The H2 pressure is maintained a few PSI lower than the oil pressure, so there is a small net flow inward of oil and no flow of H2 to the exterior. That excess oil makes its way to the hydrogen detraining tank, where a float system allows it oil to return to the main lube oil tank & keeps a fixed level in the detraining tank. Not a bad synopsis, eh? ;D
Definitions of metal:
1) any of a class of substances characterized by high electrical and thermal conductivity as well as by malleability, ductility, and high reflectivity of light.
2) a solid material that is typically hard, shiny, malleable, fusible, and ductile, with good electrical and thermal conductivity (e.g., iron, gold, silver, copper, and aluminum, and alloys such as brass and steel).
Hydrogen is a nonmetal and is placed above group in the periodic table because it has ns1 electron configuration like the alkali metals. However, it varies greatly from the alkali metals as it forms cations (H+) more reluctantly than the other alkali metals. Unlike metals forming ionic bonds with nonmetals, hydrogen forms polar covalent bonds. Despite being electropositive like the active metals that form ionic bonds with nonmetals, hydrogen is much less electropositive than the active metals, and forms covalent bonds.
Heat can be transferred in three ways: by conduction, by convection, and by radiation.
a) Conduction is the transfer of energy from one molecule to another by direct contact.
b) Convection is the movement of heat by a fluid such as water or air.
c) Radiation is the transfer of heat by electromagnetic waves.
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Most of the things you cut&paste (and colour blue) is useless information. Come back to your thesis that liquid H2 is not much different than liquid LNG. Just keep in mind that H2 has the highest specific heat of all gases. And a very high thermal conductivity when cold? I hope you will accept this simple fact? And the problems this simple fact creates when using it in liquid form?
Well if you would really know about these things and not just make internet searches with CUT&Paste, you would have named the relevant parameter. It is not specific heat, but thermal conductivity. But please spare everybody from your internet founds (and colouring) about thermal conductivity. It is what 10years old do, to boast with their "knowledge". It is boring
My fault is that I did not understand english perfectly, so I did let you get away with the false parameter for a while.
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Seriously? We're now obsessing about thermal conductivity of a cryogenic fluid contained inside an insulated container? One specifically designed to minimize heat uptake? A fluid that just sits there and is temperature controlled by external machinery? All greater fluid thermal conductivity would do is make it easier to move heat in and out. What happened to worrying about metallic hydrogen, give up on that stalking horse?
The greater specific heat capacity of H2 gas in a turbogenerator means it has the ability to carry off more process heat for a given volume of gas passing through the windings. The lower viscosity of H2 means less parasite drag. Turbulent flow of a gas through the rotor windings provides plenty of residency time for heat acquisition. A lower specific heat capacity gas would require more flow or greater density, both of which increase parasitic drag.
YOU are the only guy here worrying about handling liquid hydrogen. Industry has long ago figured out the procedures & equipment necessary to handle it safely, there is no reason for you to reinvent the wheel or sound an alarm for longstanding industrial processes.
" Just keep in mind that H2 has the highest specific heat of all gases. " Rest assured I'll remember I had to explain it to you.
As far as thermal conductivity, https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ states a conductivity of 92.5 mW/m-K for H2 ( 8.5 Bar, 30K) and 199.7 mW/m-K for LNG (1 Bar, 100K) (methane), so LNG about double that of LH2 by their numbers. For comparison, water has a thermal conductivity rating of about 600 mW/m-K (20C, 1 Bar), which is why it makes a great coolant.
In any event, neither you nor I will ever likely operate cryogenic hardware either on an LNG ship or LH2 ship. We certainly won't build one. If we did get a chance to operate the transfer equipment, we'd get definitely get training in both material handling and equipment operation long before they ever let us onboard. And if we'd like to stay alive, we'd follow that training and those procedures.
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The problem is not when liquid H2 is IN a Containment, it becomes dangerous when it leaves the containment and while you handle it. For example in an accident. It is much more dangerous than liquid N2 or methane, for example. And because of that and the much lower needed temperatures, transporting liquid H2 is much more expensive and costly. You have high losses. Up to a point that it does not make sense on a ship.
Nobody wants 800bar H2 tanks under their seat. Even less liquid H2.
And you still could not resist to Cut&Paste your google findings. How boring. Colouring it red does nothing to improve your cedibility. You dont explain nothing. Because you have no knowledge. Just good in colouring google findings. And no, none of your "explanations" were of any use to me. Nothing I could not find better or more precise myself just by asking mother google.
And you dont even find the right results. Typical for a superficial poser. When liquid H2 has a 7 times higher thermal conductivity than methane.
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Speaking of having 800 Bar tanks under your seat. See the attached photo of the H2 pump at the abandoned H2 station across from Alice's Restaurant.
I bet you both will be happy when the weather finally improves and you can get away from your computers long enough to ride your gasoline-powered Royal Enfields again instead of battling over how many electrons are in the hydrogen atom. ;)
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Somehow i suspect once the H2 mobility conquered the world in about the same way as the E mobility, it won't take long until the first bronterocs start to appear.
The new generation NXT thing might be the transportation of antimatter which might be brought to your local power plant by a DHL drone. Since the power density per kg exceeds by a large magnitude the one of uranium it will be enough to supply your country with energy for decades.
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" And because of that and the much lower needed temperatures, transporting liquid H2 is much more expensive and costly. You have high losses. Up to a point that it does not make sense on a ship."
Damn - too bad Kawasaki didn't have you on speed dial before they built their ship. What a bunch of "no knowledge" folks. Maybe you should send them your analysis and e-mail address so they can know who to ask for the "true facts" next time. Of course, they would likely appreciate some data references and test results to illustrate & back up your claims. Mostly engineers like to work with common verifiable data, not belligerent pronouncements. I see we're not talking about heat transfer in a turbulent compressible fluid anymore, so at least that got across.
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Which is exacly why i would buy a overpriced mediocre Toyota to finance financial graves like that H2 ship.
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@502: real engineers know what they are doing. They dont need to throw around superficial knowledge from google. And paint their text. Thats childish behaviour.
They know the meaning of quote marks.
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I thought you have to be atleast doctor phd to know what you do.
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" @502: real engineers know what they are doing. "
So you are saying that Kawasaki did a good job building their LH2 transport ship now? :o
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Kawasaki probably just followed orders from the government. I am shure the engineers did their best. And I am also shure they dont search for google links to colour them. And I am shure they know the meaning of quotation marks.
And please please please: Dont plaster this thread with sidelong google findings about the inner working and structure of the japanese government. Coloured blue an red.
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Speaking of having 800 Bar tanks under your seat. See the attached photo of the H2 pump at the abandoned H2 station across from Alice's Restaurant.
I bet you both will be happy when the weather finally improves and you can get away from your computers long enough to ride your gasoline-powered Royal Enfields again instead of battling over how many electrons are in the hydrogen atom. ;)
Who told you about electrons?
There are no electrons.
The orbitals are just probability fields waiting patiently for the wave function to collapse.
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" When liquid H2 has a 7 times higher thermal conductivity than methane "
Yeah, about that.
Comparing apples to apples, pressure at 10 Bar (147 Psi), by the charts:
Liquid H2 at 30K and 10 Bar has a thermal conductivity of about 90 mW/m-K
A few degrees more at that pressure and it wants to be a gas.
Liquid CH4 at 100K and 10 Bar has a thermal conductivity of about 200 mW/m-K
About 60 degrees more at that pressure and it wants to be a gas.
So in a mildly pressurized liquid to liquid comparison, CH4 has a higher conductivity than H2 by around 2:1. But then the phase change alters things radically. The thermal conductivity of both H2 & CH4 drop right after the phase change, then start climbing again, ending up at 600K, 10 Bar at about 3.6:1 H2/CH4.
Gaseous H2 at 40K and 10 Bar has a thermal conductivity of about 37 mW/m-K
Gaseous H2 at 160K and 10 Bar has a thermal conductivity of about 136 mW/m-K
Gaseous CH4 at 160K and 10 Bar has a thermal conductivity of about 19 mW/m-K
136/19 = 7.2; close enough to 7:1 for argument's sake, but it's a gas, not a liquid at that point.
Gaseous H2 at 200K and 10 Bar has a thermal conductivity of about 157 mW/m-K
Gaseous CH4 at 200K and 10 Bar has a thermal conductivity of about 23 mW/m-K
157/23 = 6.8; still close to 7:1.
Gaseous H2 at 300K and 10 Bar has a thermal conductivity of about 193 mW/m-K
Gaseous CH4 at 300K and 10 Bar has a thermal conductivity of about 35 mW/m-K
193/35 = 5.5
Gaseous H2 at 600K and 10 Bar has a thermal conductivity of about 318 mW/m-K
Gaseous CH4 at 600K and 10 Bar has a thermal conductivity of about 89 mW/m-K
318/89 = 3.6
So your entire "liquid hydrogen is seven times more thermally conductive than LNG" argument appears to be based on the wrong readings...?
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Good boy. Cut&Paste is your best .
Nobody is interested in this. Everybody already knows that posing with Cut&Paste data you find at google is your profession.
But you have no knowledge of what you talk about. Then you would have known this several pages before. And not argued around with false parameters.
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Kawasaki probably just followed orders from the government. I am shure the engineers did their best. And I am also shure they dont search for google links to colour them. And I am shure they know the meaning of quotation marks.
And please please please: Dont plaster this thread with sidelong google findings about the inner working and structure of the japanese government. Coloured blue an red.
Following orders though seems to be the excuse #1 for anti social behaviour these days. In Swedotopia no one gives orders, the engineer do what they want and are to be blamed for what ever the result is, including the financial losses they caused. Can't wait to watch them being tarred and feathered on tv.
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@ 510: Pretty classic strategy - when found out, never admit it and muddy the waters. Either put up some objective data or STFU.
By the way - unless you are running over to a handy college research library or purchasing books worth several hundred dollars each, your info is coming off of the internet.
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This would be the first electric bike I really consider to buy. If it will be available:
https://motorbikewriter.com/evoke-electric-claims-top-range-fastest-charge/
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Looks like it has potential. The projected roughly 150 mile out of town range makes it useful, a regenerative assisted range in town of nearly 300 miles would be great. Hopefully the Chinese can keep it affordable.
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Finally, one that isn't a complete eyesore...
https://motorbikewriter.com/damon-hypserpsort-electric-320km-range/
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But it lacks the most important thing for an e-bike: The supercharge option. Full in 15min.
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Looks like maybe in Texas soon only a 45 minute wait vs. 3-8 hours at home. The "supercharging" option is under evaluation & appears to be a software upgrade after Damon decides it won't kill their batteries.
https://help.damon.com/en/articles/4166208-does-the-hypersport-support-fast-charging
Yes, the HyperSport supports CCS (DC fast charge/combined charging system).
https://help.damon.com/en/articles/4166205-where-can-i-charge-the-hypersport
With the built-in Level 1, 2, & CCS Chargers, the HyperSport can be charged at any compatible charging station.
What is a CCS plug?
The Combined Charging System, more commonly known as CCS, is the European standard plug and socket type used for connecting electric or plug-in hybrid cars to a DC rapid charger. ... The two larger, lower pins on the plug enable the Direct Current connection that forces more electricity into your batteries in less time.
https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-applies-install-supercharger-stations-texas-ccs-connectors/#:~:text=Tesla%20applies%20to%20install%20Supercharger%20stations%20in%20Texas%20with%20CCS%20connectors,-Fred%20Lambert&text=Tesla%20has%20applied%20to%20install,Supercharger%20network%20to%20other%20automakers.
Tesla has applied to install Supercharger stations in Texas with CCS connectors, which would be a first in the US. The move comes as Tesla is planning to open its Supercharger network to other automakers.
The Texas Volkswagen Environmental Mitigation Program (TxVEMP) is a program that uses the settlement from the Dieselgate scandal to fund projects to help the air quality in Texas, including funding electric vehicle charging stations.
Over the last month, the program has been accepting applications for grants on new charging stations.
According to a new filing, Tesla has applied for grants ranging from $375,000 to $500,000 on four different new Supercharging stations
4 Flavours: Premier, HS, SX, & SE, generally with different charging times. But it looks like they are working on the "supercharger" option.
https://help.damon.com/en/articles/4166209-how-long-does-it-take-to-charge-the-hypersport
CCS Fast Charging: all - 80% in 45 minutes
Level 2 (240V): 90% in 1.5 to 2.5 hours
Level 1 (110V): 90% in 8 to 15 hours
Since most riders will not be starting from a completely depleted pack, in practice, charge times will be less. Faster charge times may be possible in the future after we complete long-term cell life studies and Damon would simply implement OTA software, unlocking this new capability directly to your HyperSport.
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Volkswagen has money for any bullshit except for building cars. Especially since the social engineers running the show. They will of course rather donate it the big scientists and power hungry politicos. Than in return try to kill us with nonsensical medication. Just don't claim one and one is two or you get diagnosed with psychosis.
Who would have thought Texas had such badly poluted air.
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" in return try to kill us with nonsensical medication "
On this side of the pond there's about 900,000 and counting discorporate folks that would have liked to have had access to that "nonsensical medication" early on. Most everyone coming off of a ventilator is pretty enthusiastic about how they "shoulda got it" too. Life's pretty awesome if you're in the 50% that are totally unaffected. But you do you, and screw everyone else, right?
USA, world leader in C19; "We're "#1!" at least at something.
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Sounds like a good idea "screw everyone else". Your words = "I tend to help folks who have the muse to help themselves", i agree with that, seems like a sound philosophy.
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Last time I checked the immune system you were born with was a bit outside your control. Mitigating contagion is a group, not individual effort. Vaccines are a reasonable precaution, & the tech isn't there to say who's in the "50% no problemo" group. We all look out for each other when problems have group consequences, yes? "Helping others willing to help themselves" is different than "helping others unable to help themselves". But you know that and conflated them anyway. Go ask the medical staff of any major hospital their opinion of the unvaccinated Anti-vax folks on gurneys clogging the hallways when pregnant breech birth women & kids chewed by pitbulls get brought in.
This would be a very different world if the Eugenics Board culled for lack of disease resistance, congenital defects, anti-social tendencies and lack of logical thinking ability. A lot less crowded, a lot fewer hospitals, just "survivors" running wild & free, more or less tribally cooperating, and probably with a few heavily protected apex predators scattered throughout the population areas, doing their bit to improve the species, weeding out the inattentive, diseased, aged, slow, careless & just plain unlucky. At least we wouldn't have to pay for other folks retirement, burial, medical care or worry about our old age, right?
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Of course if you are helping yourself (merely to other peoples money) you have to make it appear as if you do it for the greater good of everyone.
If you wish to be a success in the world, promise everything, deliver nothing.
Napoleon Bonaparte
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Damon is generating a lot of "cat calls" at the Electric Motorcycle Forum due to their unusually high power and range claims, overly light weight specifications, too low of a price for their proposed production model, and a lot of apparently BS by the CEO. They have been pushing the bike for the past couple of years, but so far none have been sold, although a lot of people have put $100 (or more) deposits down to buy an example and are awaiting a chance to go for a test ride during the promised LiveWire-type roll out tour. The company claims to have a factory in Canada, but no retail establishments. They apparently plan on starting off with internet sales - if they ever finish the design of their motorcycle's advanced features. They also got a lot of flack for showing a Zero frame and motor in one of their promotional videos and also inserted a borrowed Ducati video clip into another one of their recent promotional videos. ::)
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I still like my 1940's tech, 70 MPG, 300 mile range at 55 MPH, 5 minute fill up Pre-Unit best. As long as I can get parts it'll serve the need. It'll run on alcohol if need be, I can't see that disappearing any time soon. :)
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@ #522: " Of course if you are helping yourself (merely to other peoples money) you have to make it appear as if you do it for the greater good of everyone. "
Saint Jude's might deserve a look-see to draw you out of your pit of despair. There are many credible organizations in the world, you just need to do the research. Implying that everyone purporting to help others is a criminal is either just self-entertainment or merely justification for doing nothing. It is unnecessary to justify doing nothing by impugning others, simply just do nothing. Nobody is keeping score, nobody cares what you do or don't do as an individual, no justification required, no shade need be cast. Trust but verify, that's the ticket.
https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/351044585
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"Nobody cares what you do as an individual" ...true as long as you do nothing and are locked up. ::)
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"Nobody cares what you do as an individual" ...true as long as you do nothing and are locked up. ::)
Unfortunately if you live in a democracy that is the way it works. A democracy requires you follow the will/wishes of the majority whether you believe in it or not. If the majority via their representatives say you need to wear a pink hat with yellow flowers then you wear one.
As opposed to a totalitarian state where you do what the ruling powers want.
People may WISH they lived in an anarchist/libertarian state where they can do what ever they want and everyone else can just go get stuffed (and call democracies totalitarian) but unless they move to an Anarchist commune somewhere in the South American jungle they are going to struggle to find any country that just allows them to do whatever they wish whenever the mood strikes them.
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It seems so that democracy is mob rule without a handbrake those days.
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" A democracy requires you follow the will/wishes of the majority whether you believe in it or not. "
That's a lot of angst, fellas. As you are already here, you are a part of that democratic system as well, a voice but not the voice. Last time I checked, in most of the free world if you are taking care of your own self, leaving other folks alone, and maybe exchanging work services for monetary remuneration, you can pretty much do as you please after that. Nobody gets everything they want, but hopefully at least what they need.
You can still actually move around to better locations too, with maybe just a week or so "Covid19 proving period" after you get there. The Middle East & Africa have plenty of anarchist/libertarian states, possibly a good place to start there? And that's another point - if you have the freedom to up & leave where you are, maybe things aren't quite as dire as you think.
What is the simple definition of democracy?
1 : government by the people : majority rule. 2 : government in which the highest power is held by the people and is usually used through representatives. 3 : a political unit (as a nation) governed by the people. 4 : belief in or practice of the idea that all people are socially equal.
Democracy Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Websterhttps://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary ›
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No word of constitution though, the historical balast. So basically you're saying the mob can do whatever it wants. Sounds rather scary to me.
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" A democracy requires you follow the will/wishes of the majority whether you believe in it or not. "
That's a lot of angst, fellas. As you are already here, you are a part of that democratic system as well, a voice but not the voice. Last time I checked, in most of the free world if you are taking care of your own self, leaving other folks alone, and maybe exchanging work services for monetary remuneration, you can pretty much do as you please after that. Nobody gets everything they want, but hopefully at least what they need.
You can still actually move around to better locations too, with maybe just a week or so "Covid19 proving period" after you get there. The Middle East & Africa have plenty of anarchist/libertarian states, possibly a good place to start there? And that's another point - if you have the freedom to up & leave where you are, maybe things aren't quite as dire as you think.
What is the simple definition of democracy?
1 : government by the people : majority rule. 2 : government in which the highest power is held by the people and is usually used through representatives. 3 : a political unit (as a nation) governed by the people. 4 : belief in or practice of the idea that all people are socially equal.
Democracy Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Websterhttps://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary ›
To that I'd add that as someone famous once said: "Democracy is the worst possible form of government, except for all the others."
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I'll eat a broomstick full of shit though if the covid-19 mandates have been brought about democratically.
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A hearty +1 to Zimmemr!
" No word of constitution though, the historical balast. So basically you're saying the mob can do whatever it wants. Sounds rather scary to me."
Non-sequitur: a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. "his weird mixed metaphors and non sequiturs"
contrarian: a person who deliberately takes a contrary position or attitude.
You were just saying that you want to do whatever you want, whenever you want. Now you want a "constitution" to tell you what to do & delineate the behaviours of others. So which is it to be, "Fight Club" or "Gattaca"? Sounds like you just like to argue for recreational purposes. :o "Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto" Terence
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KTM gets into the small electric motorcycle game: https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model-preview/pierer-mobility-confirms-a-ktm-e-duke-is-in-development.html
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It seems so that democracy is mob rule without a handbrake those days.
Potential mob rule is definitely one of the potential downsides of democracies, along with them being easily corrupted by people with money to throw around, press magnates like Murdoch that can influence the media and hence "the masses", and by charismatic figures happy to make up nonsense on social media to garner attention and a big following and as a result power.
Monarchies are not a good alternative, they tend to get subverted by sycophants and the occasional heir to the throne can randomly be a total nut case with serious mental health issues (though hopefully they get spotted early and meet with an unfortunate "accident" young) .
Totalitarian states never end well for anyone.
As for anarchist and libertarian proponents, even these guys do not assume a total free for all with no rules at all. Most seem at a minimum to assume a socially aware and intelligent community that is prepared to do what is best for the group. Unfortunately 'socially aware and intelligent" is not a label you can apply to most modern day anarchists or libertarians as they do not tend overall to be a happy little bunch of calm content other regarding types.
In terms of western society most countries are technically "liberal states" often with libertarian tendencies, rather than true democracies, anyway. Liberal State Theory tends to revolve around what it takes to qualify as a "citizen" (not insane, not a child etc) and what rights you acquire as a citizen and what obligations and restrictions are incurred.
To be honest, if you really want to just do your own thing - then living self sufficient, hunting and fishing, on an island or out in the forest or up some remote mountain is likely the best option.
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Well spoken, and a hearty +1 to that! :)
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LRC-11 and 15 Quick Specs
Range at 88 kph/ 55 mph -------------------225 km/ 140 m
Range at 112 kph/ 70 mph -----------------129 km/80 m
Top Speed -----------------------------------131 kph/ 81 mph
Continuous Power Output --------------------11 and 15 Kw
Peak Power Output and Motor Rating ---------15 Kw peak
Battery Capacity ------------------------------------ 10 Kwh
MSRP ------------------------------------------------$15,385
ZEV LRC BEATS THE MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE ZERO
ZERO estimates its range from dyno test runs. ZEV determines its range from actual on the highway driving on USA east coast highway driving.
The ZEV LRC-X has 68% more highway range over the ZERO DSR with the power tank at the same speed 55 mph.
The ZEV motor has 2.5 X the torque of the ZERO motor.
The ZEV has a bigger battery charger in kw by 38% for a faster charge.
The ZERO lacks the vast storage space of the ZEV and he hauling ability.
The ZEV has a 3 inch lower seat height than the ZERO.
The ZEV seat is a big roomy seat with room for two people to ride comfortably.
The ZERO lacks the full fairing weatherproofing of the ZEV.
Documented by owner/rider in Russia, the ZEV with 25% less battery capacity than a 12 kw ZERO, ran 35% more distance.
In the 2016 Vetter Challenge, the ZEV LRC ran less watts per mile power consumption than either of the two ZERO based streamliners in the competition and completed the 130 mile run as did the streamliners which each had larger battery packages.
https://www.zelectricvehicle.com/T-Series
( Looks like a Honda Ruckus )
The Dual Purpose, All Rounder, and Range Champion
If this bike had a fake gas tank on it no one would ever call it a scooter. This bike is the answer for a daily commuter who wants sporting ability. It is fast and quick to, allowing you to put it exactly where you need it on the road.
Quick Specs
Range at 65% Power ----------------------- 80 miles (T 15000)
55 Miles (T 6000 L)
Range at 95% Power ----------------------- 50 miles (T 15000)
25 miles (T 6000 L)
Top Speed ----------------------------------- 75 mph (T 15000)
55 mph (T 6000)
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No quickcharge, no use.
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I've been poking around the E bicycle world a little lately and its surprising how affordable the hub motors and related parts are. I have a 1961 Columbia that's been hanging in the rafters of my storage room for decades waiting to be brought back to life, maybe I'd go this route with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCAi9NKHuc4
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When my 2018 Zero S, with Power Tank, was new I tried for the longest run that I could. I was able to go 150 miles before arriving home with "00" showing on the state of charge display. My traveling speed varied between 35 and 55 mph, with two thousand feet of up and down riding over two large bumps in the Santa Cruz Mountains and then back home against a headwind along the Coast Highway. At 60 mph, my bike will travel 100 miles on a full charge. No L2 charging option, but for my usage, I don't need that. One thing to consider is that no one will completely drain their battery while out riding before wanting to recharge it. I typically use a 25% state of charge showing on the battery before recharging it. I might add that the same is true with my car and motorcycles. When they go on "reserve" I head for the nearest gas station. No one wants to run out of gas or electrons - except for those drivers who run out of gas in the middle of a bridge. ::)
Going back to what seems to be the main topic of discussion on this thread, why is Elon Musk going off the rails?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXn_HltkfVY
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The "T" model looks very utilitarian, good in-town transport errand bike/grocery getter. For in-town, home charging shouldn't be an issue. Daily 40 mile each way would likely require a terminal-end charger.
https://www.zelectricvehicle.com/
https://www.zelectricvehicle.com/faqs
Batteries
7) How long does it take to charge a ZEV bike battery?
A lithium battery ZEV can absorb about a 75% charge in only about 25 minutes. Generally, two hours of normal charger usage is required to top off the battery. Four hours of charging is required if the battery is depleted. (Batteries should not be used to total depletion, otherwise damage can occur.)
ZEV battery are mated with the chargers so that it takes an 4.5 hours to charge the bike, regardless of model up to 10 kwh of battery capacity on 110 volt. Charging on 220 decreases the charging time somewhat.
The best battery life can be obtained by charging after every use. Running the battery to depletion and then charging shortens its life. Charging at 70-75% depletion instead of 80% depletion increases the battery life by 50% according to the battery supplier. Lithium and lead acid batteries can be charged whenever possible regardless of the charge left.
Charging with a 220 v charger takes on average 2/3 the time than with a 120 volt charger. Installing a 220 volt outlet and ordering a 220 v charger will give you far shorter charging periods.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7m8Dd4u8R8&t=2s
ZEV T8500, model changes for 2016. 8500 watts continuous power, 9,900 watts peak power.
See www.zelectricvehicle.com for more information OR contact sales@zelectricvehicle.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPUIxT7NIWE
This film is about my very first experiences with the ZEV T8500, an all electric motorcycle/scooter which has the appearance of the Honda Ruckus but it consumes no gasoline. It got in my possession 15 april 2015 and it is my intention to introduce the charm of electric motorcycle driving to the viewers.
I live in the Netherlands where the ZEV is imported by http://www.swir.nl/ . The ZEV is fabricated in the USA ( http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/ ) with a lot of Chinese components.
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@ #539: Looks like a fun project! :)
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@ #540: I really like the "Trump" flags displayed by the cross-border insurrectionists. I wonder when Canada will get around to deporting these terrorists? US citizens don't really have a good reason to be in Canada causing mayhem. Maybe Homeland Security will start listing these folks as "no fly" candidates and bring them back in unheated busses.
I'll bet border crossing into Canada for the rest of us will get a lot more difficult & intrusive. Canada doesn't need outside "Fight Club" style agitators from us, the C19 champion of the world; 900,000 & counting...
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H-D will be previewing its new LiveWire S2 Del Mar middleweight electric motorcycle in a few months. Here is the latest news: https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model-preview/livewire-s2-del-mar-middleweight-electric-to-debut-in-q2-2022.html
Regarding vaccine and mask protests, a friend just sent me this cartoon.
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Here is an update regarding Triumph's TE-1 electric motorcycle prototype's development progress: https://thepack.news/project-triumph-te-1-demo-prototype-unveiled/
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(https://www.mtbr.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.mtbr.com/attachments/tesla-fail-jpg.1968339/)
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While on the subject of Canada ...
Canadian early teen does a Blondie cover in the snow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55FBfye8Hhk
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While on the subject of Canada ...
Canadian early teen does a Blondie cover in the snow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55FBfye8Hhk
She's got real potential and does a nice cover of that song. Here's a cover I keep getting pulled back to, I heard the original Jefferson Airplane version first in 67 and it made me a fan of the "San Francisco Sound" from then on. On their track Marta and Philippe did the whole thing playing the instruments and produced it too. To me her voice is the equal of Grace's and Philippe has Jorma's guitar licks down perfectly.
All this young talent, I hope they can make a name for themselves!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmOozDK_n8c
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And now we have an H2-powered cargo ship. And only 60 years after the U.S. tried something similar with the NS Savanna Atomic cargo ship. ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku9bq8Mvmi8
And as the French are sailing away in their hydrogen cargo ship, the trucker's "freedom convoy" has reached France.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w7nOCj_WGA
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Canada is arresting these morons, confiscating fuel & towing vehicles. France seems unimpressed. Pretty convenient that tying up the "free world" goods delivery services takes focus off of Ukraine & Taiwan. I'm certain military "Op-For Bots" are very involved in spreading the "message", but I'm equally positive we have lots of home grown terrorists just itching for a purpose & a function. What a buncha maroons....I'm still waiting for the Moscow "Freedumb Convoy" to metastasize, that would be a reeel eye opener for the fooking iijits hoping for a "Putin/Trump 2024" ticket.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/10/europe-ban-freedom-convoy/
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220210-inspired-by-ottawa-protests-french-motorists-join-freedom-convoy-bound-for-paris
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/10/europe/paris-freedom-convoy-banned-intl/index.html
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the U.S. tried something similar with the NS Savanna Atomic cargo ship.
Nuclear cargo ships never had a good window. In the '60s when the Savannah mainly operated the alternative option, Bunker Fuel, was dirt cheap.
By the mid 70's when the price of oil went through the roof and nuclear might have become economical, there was growing opposition to nuclear power, especially in maritime use, and permission to dock in many countries (NZ for example) was starting to look problematic.
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Komaki Ranger electric cruiser motorcycle
https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/two-wheelers/komaki-ranger-electric-cruiser-motorcycle-breaks-cover-41641966908609.html
Komaki Ranger electric cruiser motorcycle is set to launch on January 16. The Komaki Ranger electric cruiser motorcycle promises 250 km range on a single charge. Komaki Ranger comes with a typical cruiser design. At one glance, it looks like a slightly modified version of the Bajaj Avenger. However, the distinctive design elements are easily visible. The motorcycle gets shiny chrome garnished retro-themed round LED headlamp. It is accompanied by dual chrome garnished round-shaped auxiliary lamps. The headlamp is flanked by retro-themed side indicators.
The raked wide handlebars, single-pod instrument cluster, shiny chrome treated display on the fuel tank are the design elements that are similar to Bajaj Avenger. The rider seat is lower positioned, while the pillion gets a backrest ensuring a comfortable experience. The hard panniers at both sides indicate the motorcycle has been developed keeping a focus on the long-range riding capability. There is a round-shaped taillight flanked with side indicators. Other design elements include leg guards, a faux exhaust, black alloy wheels etc.
Komaki has already confirmed that the Ranger electric cruiser will come with a four-kilowatt battery pack paired with a 5,000-watt motor. The EV company also claims that the Ranger will be capable of running around 250 km range on a single charge. This makes Komaki Range the electric two-wheeler with the longest range in India. The EV brand also claimed that this cruiser bike will be able to tackle a wide range of terrains as well as different weather conditions.
The Indian electric two-wheeler market is currently dominated by electric scooters. The number of electric motorcycles is too low. However, this electric cruiser motorcycle is expected to boost the appeal of EVs further in the market.
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A four KWh battery is not going to get you a 250 km distance on one charge. ???
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Maybe there's an all downhill 250 km road from Srinagar to Lahore? ;D ;D ;D
Anyway, it looks pretty "motorcycle-y" compared to lots of e-bikes. No range problem a small camp trailer full of batteries couldn't remediate...as usual. :P
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Anyway, it looks pretty "motorcycle-y" compared to lots of e-bikes.
That was my first thought :D
Compare the range of e-bikes available side-by-side with...
A RE Bullet
A Suzuki pop-up headlight Katana
1992 RGV250
Original Ducati 916
1992 HD FXRS
Really? E-bike designs are so poor they're verging on 'vile', I'm baffled why anyone would choose to spend an enormous amount of money on an electric carbuncle.
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Living on the outskirts of Las Vegas meant unlimited bike paths. Also a National Park. Nevada and NPS laws now treat ebikes the same as bicycles. They come in three classes. Top speed of 30 on ours. If you built one to go 100 mph of course that would not qualify, but for most commercially available ebikes you can go just about everywhere. I loved it! Pedal when you want, coast along with electricity or any combination of the two. With a 50 mile range there was no danger of being miles from home when you get tired.
Yes, I fell for the retro motorcycle styling. The stretched teardrop "tank" holds the battery while the headlight and taillight make it more visible. The saddlebags allow me to carry a lock and a lunch.
Now we live in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. The roads are perfect for motorcycles but they have never heard of a bike lane, much less actual bike trails. My doctor told me about his friend who has been hit three times while riding his bicycle in the area. The bikes left the garage once. I'm going to miss it but I just can't see riding around here.
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Here is the first mass-produced "E-bike" that I can recall. It is the Brammo Enertia, which was partially funded by Best Buy who wanted to sell them during the fall of 2009, next to their mountain bikes. Unfortunately, they neglected to obtain approval from California's DMV and were informed that they could not become a motor vehicle retail dealer without jumping through a lot of hoops, which they were reluctant to do. But in the meantime it put my mom and pop Electric Motorsport motorcycle, electric scooter and electric bicycle dealer, which was located across the street in Redwood City, CA, out of business - without ever selling a single Enertia. :(
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I hope Cake didn't spend too much time designing these windshields ::) : https://thepack.news/cake-reveals-a-colourful-collection-of-shields-for-the-makka-commuter/
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Meanwhile the Indian Motorcycle company jumps into the E-bike market with this new Hooligan model: https://thepack.news/the-eftr-hooligan-1-2-is-a-collaboration-between-indian-motorcycle-and-super73/
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I hope Cake didn't spend too much time designing these windshields ::) : https://thepack.news/cake-reveals-a-colourful-collection-of-shields-for-the-makka-commuter/
Looks like 2-3 years hard-core desing and engineering plus quality control and production approval.
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I like the blue one.
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Here is an interesting solid-state battery development: https://thepack.news/gogoro-unveils-worlds-first-swappable-solid-state-battery-prototype-for-electric-vehicles/
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there is yet another alternative ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfGjIUeZR7g
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfGjIUeZR7g/maxresdefault.jpg)
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Brilliant! ;D Thanks for posting - ACR -
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Sometimes hardship makes you become more and more ingenious.
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Here is an interesting solid-state battery development: https://thepack.news/gogoro-unveils-worlds-first-swappable-solid-state-battery-prototype-for-electric-vehicles/
I said 'swappable batteries' 10 years ago ::)
There's a bizarre racket going on with vehicle batteries...
Vehicles need 3 sizes;
Sub 1 litre
Sub 3 litre
Above 3 litre
What we actually have is hundreds of different sizes, some with reversed terminals ::)
If there were 3 sizes, mass production would easily reduce costs.
Electric car batteries should be designed to fit on a giant plug-in cassette that would be automatically swapped by a machine. This would measure the charge remaining and bill you accordingly.
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There you go, trying to be all reasonable & logical... ;D ;D ;D...
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Indeed, the actual facts of the matter while no doubt interesting, are irrelevant.
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I hope that Yamaha didn't strain themselves designing this electric scooter ::) : https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model-preview/2022-yamaha-neos-e01-electric-scooter-details-released.html
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https://youtu.be/R_y_t6MSuAQ
Kawasaki definitely got the better idea. ;D
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Flashing lights! Handlers! Wheels! Every 12 year old girl in the USA will need one...
https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-news/all-the-technology-in-the-world-and-kawasaki-builds-a-robot-goat-ar195233.html
Can't wait for Mecha-Goat to clash with Mecha-Godzilla... :o ;D
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Greta ought to love that means of transportation. ;)
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That's NEXT years model: the E-Dalecarlian...looks like a particularly good paint combo for a GT535... ::)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalecarlian_horse
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That's NEXT years model: the E-Dalecarlian...looks like a particularly good paint combo for a GT535... ::)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalecarlian_horse
not on my GT atleast.
Who could possibly tell weather the Dala horse was infact a mule or a donkey. Ever seen an scandinavian Lion? ...you would sh%it your pants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_of_Gripsholm_Castle
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Hmmm...I'm thinking that 290 years ago there were a lot of S.W.A.G. happening...where's your pics of your first Laufmaschine? :o
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandy_horse
The dandy horse, a derogatory term for what was first called a Laufmaschine (in German), then a vélocipède or draisienne (in French and then English), and then a pedestrian curricle or hobby-horse,[1] is a human-powered vehicle that, being the first means of transport to make use of the two-wheeler principle, is regarded as the forerunner of the bicycle. A dandy horse is powered by the rider's feet on the ground instead of the pedals of later bicycles. It was invented by Karl Drais (who called it a Laufmaschine [German: [ˈlaʊfmaˌʃiːnə], "running machine"]) in 1817, and then patented by him in France in February 1818 using the term vélocipède. It is also known as a Draisine.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/donnad/hilariously-bad-lion-taxidermy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_of_Gripsholm_Castle
" In 1731, the Bey of Algiers presented King Frederick I of Sweden with a lion, one of the first lions in Scandinavia.[2] When alive, the lion was kept in a cage near Junibacken. When the lion died, it was stuffed and mounted; however, the taxidermist and the museum-keepers had never actually seen a lion before, and did not know how they were supposed to look.[3] As a result, the lion was anatomically inaccurate, with a notably poorly modeled face. "
SWAG = scientifically wild assed guesswork ;D
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Hipsters and there dandy horses ... back when we were kids a pack mule was good enough ... young people these days.
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https://youtu.be/JK7CsahkJCI
...now, the question is what will it take to retrofit it with an proper pushrod motor.
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Refit the E-Dalecarlian with a pushrod motor? Maybe start with a Forstner bit, some metal inserts epoxied into place to create engine mounts, then acquire an old Indian 350 Bullet from some backyard for engine & wheels donation?
The Chinese ORA Punk Cat looks fun, but VW doesn't seem to be too thrilled at the knock off styling marketing attempt.
https://electrek.co/2021/04/22/beetle-inspired-ora-punk-cat-electric-car-raises-some-eyebrows-vw-legal-department/
A new electric vehicle unveiled by China’s Great Wall Ora brand this week has attracted the interest of Volkswagen’s legal department for its resemblance to the classic VW Beetle.
Great Wall Motors has a brand called Ora, which is better-known for small electric cars.
At the Shanghai Motor Show, the brand unveiled the Ora Punk Cat.
The vehicle is jumping on the nostalgia train with an exterior that is obviously inspired by the classic VW Beetle.
They went with a four-door design, but the shape and lines are almost identical to the old Beetle.
They didn’t release the specs, but it is expected to be the same as ORA’s previously released EVs, like the ORA Haomao.
The Haomao, which means “Good Cat,” comes with a 47.8 kWh lithium iron phosphate battery pack or a 59.1 kWh ternary-lithium battery pack resulting in 400 km (250 miles) and 500 km (310 miles) of range.
That’s based on the local standard and mileage may vary (greatly).
It starts at just 103,900 yuan ($15,760) and goes up to 143,900 yuan ($21,830).
But the specs are not really what is catching people’s attention, especially not people in Volkswagen’s legal department.
Volkswagen has stopped producing the Beetle in 2019, but they are not taking kindly to the resemblance.
The German automaker told Carscoops that ORA’s Punk Cat is on the radar of their legal department:
“We check this matter with regard to any violations of utility model or design rights of Volkswagen AG and reserve the right to take any necessary legal steps.”
If they want to make a move, they might want to make it quick since Great Wall is planning to bring the Punk Cat to market by the end of this year.
Chinese copycats are not exactly new in the electric vehicle space. We previously reported on a Tesla Semi Chinese clone, and Tesla also had some copying issues with Xpeng.
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I don't know about the copyright thingy thing though, bit like claiming property rights on a cafe racer motorcycle styling. Claiming property rights on a shape that's been around for almost a hundred years would be only possible in the holy wood music industry and maybe at Coca-Cola.
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You can copyright a style.
The weird thing about the US is it seems copyright goes to the first person to legally apply for it even it is something in common use by other people for ages.
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You can copyright a style.
The weird thing about the US is it seems copyright goes to the first person to legally apply for it even it is something in common use by other people for ages.
But not the "Potato, Potato", sound. Although H-D gave it a try. ::)
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This guy has solved the range problem, not sure why no one else has thought of it.
https://youtu.be/qqsdSJXuwp4?t=941
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This is a great idea for a number of reasons. A Yamaha electric trials bike: https://thepack.news/yamaha-motor-updates-their-ty-e-electric-trials-motorbike-to-the-new-ty-e-2-0/
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These have been around for a few years now -
https://osetbikes.com/us/bikes/oset-24-0-racing/
TECHNICAL DATA
Wheelbase - 1215mm (47.8’’). Seat Height - 670mm (26.4’’).
Ground Clearance - 315mm (12.4’’). Handlebar Height - 1090mm (42.9’’).
Wheels - 19’’ x 1.4’’ Alloy rims/hubs Suspension - Front telescopic spring fork, Compression adjustment & oil damping. Rear shock, preload & compression adjustment, oil damping.
Bike Weight - 46.8kg (103.15lbs) Brakes - Front 180mm & rear 180mm hydraulic disc.
Motor - 1400W 48V OSET neodymium magnet DC motor. Controller - 48V OSET with thermal cut-out, adjustable for power, speed & response.
Batteries - 1 x OSET 20Ah, 48V Lithium battery, with charging, discharging & diagnostic ports. Charger - 3 amp 48V, Lithium Ion.
Rider Weight Limit - 198lbs (90.0kg) MSRP - $4399.00
https://www.dirtrider.com/2016-oset-200-48v-racing-electric-trials-bike-review/
https://www.visordown.com/reviews/road-test/240-racing-adult-review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ROjYr1rgq8
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Cake replaces plastic parts with paper parts. Greta is going to love that. Just keep away from rain or stream crossings. ;)
https://thepack.news/cake-evaluates-paper-as-replacement-for-plastics-in-electric-motorcycles/
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Ho god don’t start me that girl is a pure blob of hideousness.
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Cake replaces plastic parts with paper parts. Greta is going to love that. Just keep away from rain or stream crossings. ;)
https://thepack.news/cake-evaluates-paper-as-replacement-for-plastics-in-electric-motorcycles/
You need to understand what exactly they ment when they indoctrinated her with the "sustainability idea. The underlying issue in Sweden is the fear of the government collapsing, seizing all private property and introducing a hard core stalinism. Now the yelling is about sustainable business, and the offsprings of the sustainable bussiness can only be components that deteriorate faster, need more frequent ŕeplacement and cost next to nothing to make. If you want the ideal car would be one that the customer pays for and drives it from the factory directly to the yard in order to go to buy the next one. That can only come crushing down.
Now, I'm not saying finding ways to make things in a more economic way is a bad thing, however usually anyone that buys a product expects some of the advertised specs to be met atleast.
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"The underlying issue in Sweden is the fear of the government collapsing, seizing all private property and introducing a hard core stalinism."
Ummm...if the Gummint' is collapsed, how exactly is it supposed to be organized enough to "seize all private property"?
And "Stalinism", in Sweden? Which ultra-right nutjob is this entertaining delusion supposed to coalesce around?
This sounds more like a Right Wingnut fantasy than a plausible theory. How does Hillary figure into this? Is Greta Hillaries love child? Does Greta have secret Marvel Universe powers she'd been hiding?
I think the present big concern in Sweden is expediting NATO membership.
Brazil has it's own conspiracy culture. You'll fit right in, just don't wait too long to buy that ticket. Or stock up on Iodine tablets and Atropine now and avoid the rush.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/10/brazil-qanon-bolsonaro-online-internet-conspiracy-theories-anti-vaccination/
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Conspiracy nuts or not, the swedish gob. is partially collapsed and went over to cannibalisation of private property and assets. Sad as it sounds the "ritch" person to be hunted down can be a swedish granmother with a bag of lets say 10k$ cash who finds herself suddenly in the "explanation" need where she got the cash from even thou she might have saved it up over a decade. That is easily declared to be "corruption" in the swedtards psychotic minds.
That exact thing actually happened when they've introduced new bank notes around 2013. The only thing you can rely on in sweden is - you'll get fu#$ed.
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Not restricted to Sweden. RICO laws in the USA ring any bells? Sweden had a money-laundering problem, the USA has a drug-mule-cash-problem. Do YOU routinely carry $10,000 USD in cash? Didn't see anything too "skerry" about the bank note reissue either, 2015 - 2018ish? These are nice paranoid tales of Sweden, but would be a LOT more plausible & enjoyable with some background (i.e., objective proof...) data. I can appreciate a good conspiracy theory/unsupported speculation as much as the next fellow, but preface them as "I think" or "I feel" or "Hey Guys, here's a no shit story for you" to denote the recreational from the factual.
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-illegal-to-carry-large-amounts-of-cash-in-Sweden
Mats Andersson, lives in Sweden; Answered 9 months ago
Of course not. However, if you e.g. try to deposit it in a bank, they’re going to ask questions, since the US has enforced rather inane controls purported to protect against money laundering. (As is common with that sort of thing, it’s a complete hassle to law-abiding people and does absolutely f*** all about the actual problem they’re trying to fix.)
Also, there was a Russian “businessman” a while back who paid for a rather large office complex with actual banknotes; the seller said that they had to accept it since it wasn’t actually illegal, it’s just that you give the impresison that you’re a drug dealer.
So, actually putting the money to some use is going to be iffy. But illegal? How could it be?
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Illegal or not doesn't matter, since every SOB in S makes his/her own rules and the gob. is impotent.
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The reason is the Swedish government has been taken over by Lizard People.
Do not buy a Volvo as you will be brainwashed by the Lizard People "mind control chip" and start believing irrational nonsense like the "earth is round not flat", "evolution is real" and "we actually did land on the moon".
If you are forced to ride in a Volvo best to place some tin foil on your head to form a faraday shield while riding it. I suggest hiding the tinfoil inside a hat or cap or you will be ridiculed by those already brainwashed by the lizard people. You can tell brainwashed people by the way they dismiss claims about the other well known and confirmed Lizard People brain washing techniques, namely 5G cell phones, chem trails, fluoride in water, all vaccines including Covid ones, EVs of all types and of course Pepsi.
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...!
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The reason is the Swedish government has been taken over by Lizard People.
Do not buy a Volvo as you will be brainwashed by the Lizard People "mind control chip" and start believing irrational nonsense like the "earth is round not flat", "evolution is real" and "we actually did land on the moon".
If you are forced to ride in a Volvo best to place some tin foil on your head to form a faraday shield while riding it. I suggest hiding the tinfoil inside a hat or cap or you will be ridiculed by those already brainwashed by the lizard people. You can tell brainwashed people by the way they dismiss claims about the other well known and confirmed Lizard People brain washing techniques, namely 5G cell phones, chem trails, fluoride in water, all vaccines including Covid ones, EVs of all types and of course Pepsi.
That about covers it. But those precautions should also be taken when approaching a politician. ;D
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........the seller said that they had to accept it since it wasn’t actually illegal, it’s just that you give the impresison that you’re a drug dealer.
So, actually putting the money to some use is going to be iffy. But illegal? How could it be?
That's about all you get for your money, iffyness or whatever. They may as well keep it, including the Volvos.
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If you have some iffy money, box it up & send it my way! ;D Them what say money can't buy happiness just don't knows how to spend... 8)
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Why you think i've moved my arse out of the iffy place, happy spending may continue as long as i get what i order for it instead of the iffyness - like a drug dealer suspect or worse.
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In view of current events in Ukraine, this is an interesting electric motorcycle startup request for crowdfunding article:
https://thepack.news/ukrainian-rnd-center-emgo-technology-asks-to-support-their-scramper-e-motorcycle-and-their-army/
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Here is a new one for you. A cargo ped, And the designer is trolling for investors - like just about every E-bike startup: https://thepack.news/belgian-designer-benjamin-surain-is-looking-for-investors-to-commercialise-a-new-sustainable-e-cargo-vehicle/
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In view of current events in Ukraine, this is an interesting electric motorcycle startup request for crowdfunding article:
https://thepack.news/ukrainian-rnd-center-emgo-technology-asks-to-support-their-scramper-e-motorcycle-and-their-army/
The Ukrainians are quite innovative although a lot of their stuff is mistakenly thought of as Russian. Antonov and the famous AN-225 is one example. The very popular post-apocalypse PC FPS game Metro Exodus is another example, everyone thinks it is a Russian product. I spend a lot of time in flight simulators since I became to old to keep up a medical for real world flying and a surprising number of the better developers are currently shutdown because they are actually Ukrainian.
Ukraine seems to be the an exception to the commonly held view that Eastern Europe and Russia is a hot bed of "built to a price" and overall badly made products. They are actually very good at what they do.
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Everything is built to a price. Now i doubt though the Ukrainians driving here around in 100k$ suvs are much into programming. The most corrupt country of Europe is given us as example now. Microfu#ck better employs well paid american programmers.
Metro Exodus is a a fascinating game though, the story being the most fascinating part of it, written by a Russian. Who owns the company? I don't know, Ukrainians may be working there.
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4A games was founded in Kyiv by Andrew Prokhorov, Oles Shyshkovtsov, and Alexander Maximchuk . In 2014 following the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation, they moved their head office to Sliema Malta (to make dealings with the EU easier) but kept a subsidiary office in Kyiv for Eastern European Operations.
In August 2020 they became a subsidiary of the American company Saber Games but have maintained their independence and the Malta and Kiev offices. They are heavily involved in fund raising in support of Ukraine.
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A local family in Marin County, CA, runs an internet company that solves problems with any device or computer program. I used them once when I had a problem setting up a weather station that I had bought and the Customer Service department of the company that sold me the device referred me to the fix-it firm to solve the problem. They have a subscription service and will help you to solve any problem. The first time you use their services it is free, but after the help which fixed my problem I gave them a tip. The fellow who helped me was very friendly and helpful. I just can't recall the short name of the company right now.
Anyway, last month they were featured on the local TV news when the entire family flew to Ukraine to visit their 250 employees there and to provide various medical and personal items to their community. I gathered that everyone who worked for the company resided in Ukraine. You certainly could have fooled me. The fellow that helped me had a perfect command of English.
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https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/renault-transfer-avtovaz-stake-moscow-government-interfax-2022-04-26/
Whom are the sanctions supposed to help again?
I heard the swedish oligarchy saying that nationalising a car company would be pointless to do for the Russians because they wouldn't be capable of running it without the support of the mothership. HA-HA
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Looks like the Swedes may be right... :o
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-20/renault-s-russian-sales-plummet-as-lada-factories-sit-idle
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/renault-transfer-avtovaz-stake-moscow-government-interfax-2022-04-26/
April 27 (Reuters) - Renault (RENA.PA) will transfer its 68% stake in Russia's biggest carmaker Avtovaz to an auto research institute for one symbolic rouble, Russia said on Wednesday, the latest example of local institutions snapping up bargains as Western firms flee.
The trade ministry also said Renault's factory in Moscow, which produces cars under the Renault and Nissan brands, would be passed to the city's government, in another sign of what Russian authorities plan to do with Western assets.
Renault decided to transfer its stake in Avtovaz, which owns the famed Lada brand, to NAMI because it lacked the ability to keep its Russian operations going, the trade ministry said.
The deal would be worth a single rouble and gives Renault the option to buy the stake back, it said.
"But if during this period we make investments, then that will be taken into account when it comes to the cost. There won't be any presents here," Interfax quoted Manturov as saying.
Moscow's invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24 has prompted a mass corporate exodus from Russia. More than 750 companies have announced they are curtailing operations there to some degree, according to the Yale School of Management.
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Fascinating that when it comes to Russia you agree with the Swedish genetically privileged Oligarchs. The Russian can build rockets, however Ladas should be an problem for some reason. :o
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Fascinating that when it comes to Russia you agree with the Swedish genetically privileged Oligarchs. The Russian can build rockets, however Ladas should be an problem for some reason. :o
Well it is not as if building rockets is rocket science .. oh wait
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"The Russian can build rockets, however Ladas should be an problem for some reason. "
Marketing and then selling those Ladas is the issue here, not building. It's that profit thing. The ICBM/MIRV/Cruise is more an in-house product, you generally build for yourself and keep the particulars close to the vest. Capish?
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"The Russian can build rockets, however Ladas should be an problem for some reason. "
Marketing and then selling those Ladas is the issue here, not building. It's that profit thing. The ICBM/MIRV/Cruise is more an in-house product, you generally build for yourself and keep the particulars close to the vest. Capish?
You mean you need to own the New York times before you can earn anything on building a car. Why is it that i have an issue with that?
Russians have the Pravda. ;)
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Everyone needs to remember ...
"In Russia we pretend to work, and the bosses pretend to pay us."
I heard that right from a Ruskies mouth.
And thats how you get Lada's(Fiats), Polenezes, Trabant's etc.
The rocket/aviation guys are on another level.
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And the Japanese work 70 hours a week out of which they donate 30 hours to the company. Only Elon can beat that because he works 24/7.
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" You mean you need to own the New York times before you can earn anything on building a car. Why is it that i have an issue with that? "
Maybe just don't declare war on the boys next door, scaring away a lot of potential customers...Is that so hard to grok? I dunno why you pretend to have an issue with that. 2+2=4, not 22. Back to linear though, please., you really are pretty good at that when you choose to be.
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Once again battery tech announces to the world that it's real hard to reliably replace liquid fuel.
Scooter recall hits India's 'Tesla of two-wheelers' - By Priti Gupta & Ben Morris, Mumbai, 28 April 2022
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61092572
Robots glide quietly across the vast factory floor of electric scooter firm, Ola Electric Mobility, in the southern India state of Tamil Nadu. With a parent backed by Japanese investor, Softbank, this start-up is ambitious. Once running at full capacity, the company hopes this factory will churn out more electric scooters than any other plant in the world.
Much of the assembly line work is done by robots, which speedily transport scooter parts around and weld them together.
Perhaps the most striking thing about this factory though is not its sheer size - spread over 500 acres - but the workforce.
Women make up most of the staff which currently number between 1,700 and 1,800. Working as shift managers, test riders, technicians and trainers, it is a first job for many.
Ola Electric launched its first models, the S1 and S1 Pro, which are powered with rechargeable batteries, in August 2021 - receiving 100,000 orders in just 24 hours.
But since the first deliveries were made in December some customers have complained on social media of technical problems and earlier this week the firm was forced to recall 1,441 of its scooters from a particular batch.
The recall followed a well-publicised incident on March 26 in Pune, when one customer's new vehicle spontaneously caught fire just after it was parked.
A company statement on Sunday said its preliminary assessment showed the "thermal incident was likely an isolated one." But it will carry out diagnostics and health check all the scooters recalled in that specific batch.
"These scooters will be inspected by our service engineers and will go through a thorough diagnostics across all battery systems, thermal systems, as well as the safety systems," chief executive and co-founder of Ola Electric Mobility, Bhavish Aggarwa said in the statement.
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" You mean you need to own the New York times before you can earn anything on building a car. Why is it that i have an issue with that? "
Maybe just don't declare war on the boys next door, scaring away a lot of potential customers...Is that so hard to grok? I dunno why you pretend to have an issue with that. 2+2=4, not 22. Back to linear though, please., you really are pretty good at that when you choose to be.
Ah ja, who declared war on whom?
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Well, it doesn't take a "souper genus" to look at the folks tossing missiles, dropping bombs, rolling in artillery, sending in 200,000 conscripts to occupy territory of another sovereign nation to figure that out. Are you using RT as a primary news source? Tucker Carlson will be jealous of the competition. The Donbas belongs to Ukraine, not a bunch of Pro-Russian Alt-Reicht folks that apparently don't like the laws they live under and believe they don't need to comply with the rules they don't like...hmmm, sounds familiar... :o
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The Donbas region wants to separate from Ukraine. 2/3 of the inhabitants are russians.
In your definition the US still belongs to Great Britain.
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"In your definition the US still belongs to Great Britain." ??? More likely Mexico, or Canada, or Ireland, or Italy, or anywhere else cheap labor came from at some point in history. Lots more of those folks here than expat Brits. ;D Texas keeps saying it wants to secede, exactly how far do you think that actually would go? We fought a war against England to become the USA, not "New France" or some other pre-existing country. Russia can't legitimately colonize the sovereign nation of Ukraine.
So you think that's all it takes, you move in some vacationers and green card people and declare it your own? By that logic the US already owns Mazatlán, Cabo and Cancún. Mexico's President Andrés Manuel López Obrador is probably shaking in huaraches right now, waiting for the fleet of A1 Abrams to storm across his border & head south to "Liberate the Gringo Nations". We tried that awhile back with Cuba - how'd that work out?
The idea of National Sovereignty is that each country gets to go to Hell in its own peculiar way inside its own borders, without a well-armed aggressor driving across those borders and telling you what you will do. That's called war. When the CCCP fell in 1991, the "Russian" population in Ukraine fell also, apparently some of those Russians just went home. Hanging around a foreign nation and trying to claim it as a colony of your previous country tends to rightfully alienate the "colonizee's" inhabitants. You want to live in Russia? Move to Russia.
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No, it needs a war to become independent. Most of the time. And there are still up to 80% russians in Donbas.
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The majority of the residents of Northeastern California and Southeastern Oregon want to secede from California and Oregon and create their own state called the state of Jefferson. So far, the politicians in California and the U.S. Congress are not interested in that plan for some reason, although the state of Jefferson would have enough well-armed citizens to form their own army. ::)
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@ # 618: " No, it needs a war to become independent. Most of the time. And there are still up to 80% russians in Donbas. "
If you were born in Ukraine, you are Ukranian, period. If you want to be Russian, move to Russia. If you are Russian born, moved to Ukraine to be a "Freedum Fighter", you have automatically become an enemy combatant. If you want to secede from Ukraine and be your own country, look up American history circa 1860 and take notes. Ukrainian born Pro-Russia separatists will always be second-class citizens viewed with some suspicion back in the Rodina, just like our Alt-Reich whack-jobs are most everywhere else. You can't take over a corner of a nation for anyone but yourself. Gear-up and go to Donbas and find out for yourself. When the shooting stops, they'll want you to leave.
Sending in colonists (either people or corporations...) to take over a section of a country for the benefit of the one sending in colonizers creates a lot of social upheaval & pushback. Hasn't worked out well for the USA in Iran, Viet Nam, Cuba, most of South America, ad nauseum.
The current battlefield environment weaponry makes the infantryman very dangerous indeed. The cost of business has gone up considerably since 1938.
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@ # 619: The numbers seem to parallel the Trump Voter "stolen election" contingent. A hearty Good Job to Vlad & Xi Jinping's cyber commands. Not too difficult to ferret out the real beneficiary here, & it ain't U.S. Maybe Tucker already has a Pro-Putin Cabinet all picked out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization
Balkanization is the fragmentation of a larger region or state into smaller regions or states, which may be hostile or uncooperative with one another. It is usually caused by differences of ethnicity, culture, and religion and some other factors such as past grievances. The term is pejorative;[1] when sponsored or encouraged by a sovereign third party, it has been used as an accusation against such third party nations. Controversially,[2] the term is often used by voices for the status quo to underscore the dangers of acrimonious or runaway secessionism.
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Technically, the correct terms for Vlad's long term plans is Irredentism with a touch of Revanchism for good measure. The CCP claims over Taiwan and the South China Sea are another example of Irredentism.
Irredentism should not be confused with the German concept of Lebensraum a 19th Century nationalist/colonialist expansion concept that predates WWI, but went on to inspired a lot of NSDAP policy making and drove some of the more significant atrocities of WWII.
Irredentism / Revanchism are about regaining historical previously conquered/owned territory that is considered lost, even if the loss occurred centuries ago. Irredentism is generally unjustified but can garner a lot of support amongst the general population for populist nationalist/fascist leaders who are perceived as "strong" and fighting to restore a nations past glories. Lebensraum is at it's core a belief that your superior race/nation/culture is being stifled and has the right to suppress other less worthy neighbours to gain more "living space" for yourselves.
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"If you were born in Ukraine, you are Ukranian, period. If you want to be Russian, move to Russia."
Lincoln told something like that to the southern states, when they wanted the secession and engage again with the british empire. Didnt work very well.
I know that you love Cut&Paste, so I am looking forward to an endless avalanche of meaningless pasted text. Maybe even coloured in red and blue.
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Lincoln told something like that to the southern states, when they wanted the secession and engage again with the british empire. Didnt work very well.
Last time I looked, the South got stomped, so yes, it didn't work out well for the folks that didn't acknowledge the obvious. As far as an endless avalanche of meaningless, you've got that well & monochromatically covered.
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Just thought I'd check out this topic as I've got an interest in e bikes...........lol
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Just thought I'd check out this topic as I've got an interest in e bikes...........lol
If you have an interest in production electric motorcycles that are freeway legal in the U.S., U.K. and the E.U. this is a good forum to visit: https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com
And if you just want to see mostly industry press releases regarding every electric motorcycle, scooter and electric bicycle on the market or being developed, you can get lost at this site: https://thepack.news/news/
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Cheers Richard, it was more a tongue in cheek response as the title of the thread has no relevance to the current conversation. One a plus point I'm now much more up to speed on the Donbas area etc.....😂😂
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Cheers Richard, it was more a tongue in cheek response as the title of the thread has no relevance to the current conversation. One a plus point I'm now much more up to speed on the Donbas area etc.....😂😂
That is for SURE. As the guy who started this thread, wanting to discuss Light Electric Vehicles, I find the amount of drift here pretty aggravating, especially since there are a profusion of existing threads with titles that pertain to the various things that have been argued here.
Next time, I'll know better, and start a thread called, "Bloviating Fillibusters and Curmudgeonly Complaining", where those interested can discuss electric bike technology. Nobody should have to go through 47 pages of obfuscation to find the 7 or so posts that were actually on topic here.
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H-D shows off their new LiveWire S2 Del Mar electric motorcycle model: https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model-preview/2023-livewire-s2-del-mar-launch-edition-first-look.html
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"The Del Mar is expected to have a range of 100 miles of city riding."
Cool! For $17,000 your new 430 pound toy will carry you to about 5 Starbucks...
"The modular Arrow will be scaled down for a number of lightweight models (some of which will be produced by Kymco, a stakeholder in LiveWire) which are currently in development. "
The venerable 4-speed 125cc Kymco K-Pipe costs $3K out the door, gets very close to 100 mpg, weighs maybe 230 pounds wet, more than likely will run 25,000 - 40,000 miles, and it's 1.2 gallon fuel tank will get you to 20% more Starbucks with $14K left over. $14K worth of fuel will carry the lowly K-pipe about 300,000 miles. You can likely find a weekend warrior racing class for the K-Pipe, real low budget fun. There are 5-speed 200cc swappable, drop-in powertrains available for $800 - $1,100 dollars.
For myself I'd put $4K in the 100,000 mile fuel fund, $1,500 in the 200cc 5-speed fund, then pocket the remaining $8,500... :o
The K-Pipe in reasonable trim will always be worth $1000 as basic transport. A 15 year old Livewire well into its planned obsolescence curve will likely become a hazmat cleanup project. As long as it takes 100 - 150 pounds of batteries to equate to 1 gallon of fuel, all electric machines will operate under severe practical restraints.
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"The Del Mar is expected to have a range of 100 miles of city riding."
Cool! For $17,000 your new 430 pound toy will carry you to about 5 Starbucks...
"The modular Arrow will be scaled down for a number of lightweight models (some of which will be produced by Kymco, a stakeholder in LiveWire) which are currently in development. "
The venerable 4-speed 125cc Kymco K-Pipe costs $3K out the door, gets very close to 100 mpg, weighs maybe 230 pounds wet, more than likely will run 25,000 - 40,000 miles, and it's 1.2 gallon fuel tank will get you to 20% more Starbucks with $14K left over. $14K worth of fuel will carry the lowly K-pipe about 300,000 miles. You can likely find a weekend warrior racing class for the K-Pipe, real low budget fun. There are 5-speed 200cc swappable, drop-in powertrains available for $800 - $1,100 dollars.
For myself I'd put $4K in the 100,000 mile fuel fund, $1,500 in the 200cc 5-speed fund, then pocket the remaining $8,500... :o
The K-Pipe in reasonable trim will always be worth $1000 as basic transport. A 15 year old Livewire well into its planned obsolescence curve will likely become a hazmat cleanup project. As long as it takes 100 - 150 pounds of batteries to equate to 1 gallon of fuel, all electric machines will operate under severe practical restraints.
That sounds about right. What I didn't get was this statement: "Reservations for all 100 units of the Launch Edition got scooped up within 18 minutes of the pre-order window opening.". Why? ???
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There are apparently a sufficiently large group of folks around that like to compete with their wallets to have the "firstest, newest, shiniest" of anything. I don't know how else to explain sales of $30K, 150 HP, near 600 pound "Adventure Bikes", "Solo Kruzerz" and "Scramblers". Why or how you would base a large corporations continued survival on brand marketing to a few aging well-heeled folks in very specific financial market conditions escapes me unless you don't plan to be onboard long term. At least the Janus customs are functional rolling art, not just an ego exercise.
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There are apparently a sufficiently large group of folks around that like to compete with their wallets to have the "firstest, newest, shiniest" of anything. I don't know how else to explain sales of $30K, 150 HP, near 600 pound "Adventure Bikes", "Solo Kruzerz" and "Scramblers". Why or how you would base a large corporations continued survival on brand marketing to a few aging well-heeled folks in very specific financial market conditions escapes me unless you don't plan to be onboard long term. At least the Janus customs are functional rolling art, not just an ego exercise.
This is something that's puzzled me for years. Living in the Northwest corner of Fairfield County CT you see a lot of that sort of thing. We call them "wallet racers."
FWIW I'm not big on the Janus bikes, but if they ever import the Jawa, I like the Classic version in maroon, I'd be on it like white on rice.
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Zimmemr - what does it really take for a Eurospec machine to pass EPA regs? I can't imagine it's be a huge hurdle. What kind of dealerships would be likely to carry a Perak or 42? Maybe BMW/Triumph/Guzzi as a "starter bike"? If the Benelli Leoncino, the GSC G400C & others can make it, it seems unlikely the Jawa machines would not. Is it all just a sales volume calculation on the dealer end to justify import? It can't be huge, how many Leoncinos can Benelli really sell? Maybe there is an opportunity for an enthusiast niche market campaign?
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That Jawa 300 CL sells in the EU 6800€. Half the price and it might be worth the consideration.
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Zimmemr - what does it really take for a Eurospec machine to pass EPA regs? I can't imagine it's be a huge hurdle. What kind of dealerships would be likely to carry a Perak or 42? Maybe BMW/Triumph/Guzzi as a "starter bike"? If the Benelli Leoncino, the GSC G400C & others can make it, it seems unlikely the Jawa machines would not. Is it all just a sales volume calculation on the dealer end to justify import? It can't be huge, how many Leoncinos can Benelli really sell? Maybe there is an opportunity for an enthusiast niche market campaign?
AzCal; I'm not as up on the regs as I once was, but basically the bike has to meet EPA standards, and comply with all of the DOT regs, for example it has to have a left side shifter and those silly fore and aft reflectors. All the lights have to meet DOT/SAE standards and it has to have a 17-digit VIN number. At one time the OEM had to submit a bike for emissions testing, which I'm told was fairly expensive, around 50K per model. What they're doing these days I'm not sure, I suspect if the bike is Euro-5 compliant and you have the paperwork to prove it they let you import it without a lot of hassle but I wouldn't swear to it.
I think with the right dealer support and assuming they're priced right they'd be fairly successful, not only as an entry level bike but also for guys like us that just like simple, easy to work on bikes with a certain style.
I've done a few 1,000-mile weekends on my Himalayan and never felt like I wanted a larger bike, as opposed to the trips I took on large cruisers and dedicated touring bikes: EV1100 Guzzi, Triumph Thunderbirds and so on, when I often felt like I'd rather be on something smaller and a bit lighter. I think one of those Jawa's with a set of hard bags and old style Buco or Bates type windshield would be perfect for me. As would a new Meteor Classic when they get here or a 500 if they decide to build one.
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You can get in the EU a Trident 660 for 7k€. Just saying, it's probably ligher too. ::)
The style wouldn't be worth that much to me.
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What I have read in new model previews is that you need a more restrictive muffler to meet US EPA and DOT sound regulations in addition the the chassis modifications mentioned above. That is why EU models make more power than the US versions, at least when it comes to comparing their fastest bikes where top end power equates to bragging rights.
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Here are the French, Spanish & German Jawa prices, a looong way from 6,800 Euros. These are supposed to be "entry level" bikes, so I dunno how or why you could expect to charge 3x the price & actually sell any. Three sites I saw were way less - but the "CL" site claims 6800 euro. I haven't found an actual dealer website or a 2022 sales location, so...WTF?
https://fasterwheeler.com/fr/bikes/jawa/
2022 Jawa Bike Price In France
Jawa Forty Two 2022 Euro 2,268
Jawa Perak 2022 Euro 2,448
https://motowheeler.com/de/bikes/jawa/
https://okwheeler.com/es/bike-prices/jawa-perak-2022-6083
>> About the same, 2,200 to 2,500 Euros <<
https://www.motostop.eu/moto/JAWA_350_OHC_SPECIAL_2022_CUSTOM/21211
>> These guys show the 300cc CL (all Tarted Up) for 6800 Euros... one born every minute?
https://bikeadvice.in/jawa-300cl-price-launch-specs-europe/
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Here are the French, Spanish & German Jawa prices, a looong way from 6,800 Euros. These are supposed to be "entry level" bikes, so I dunno how or why you could expect to charge 3x the price & actually sell any. Three sites I saw were way less - but the "CL" site claims 6800 euro. I haven't found an actual dealer website or a 2022 sales location, so...WTF?
https://fasterwheeler.com/fr/bikes/jawa/
2022 Jawa Bike Price In France
Jawa Forty Two 2022 Euro 2,268
Jawa Perak 2022 Euro 2,448
https://motowheeler.com/de/bikes/jawa/
https://okwheeler.com/es/bike-prices/jawa-perak-2022-6083
>> About the same, 2,200 to 2,500 Euros <<
https://www.motostop.eu/moto/JAWA_350_OHC_SPECIAL_2022_CUSTOM/21211
>> These guys show the 300cc CL (all Tarted Up) for 6800 Euros... one born every minute?
https://bikeadvice.in/jawa-300cl-price-launch-specs-europe/
Unless they start selling them here the price is academic. I tried to register a "gray market" bike once, it was a huge mistake and not one I'm anxious to repeat no matter how much I like the bike. ;)
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Here is a long (some might say too long) in-depth discussion/review of H-D's new LiveWire S2 Del Mar model, which is planned to be introduced to the market next year, with any H-D spin mostly under control: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ka291NR5uA
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And here we have a preview of Kawasaki's new Electrode Electric Balance bike. I am not getting too excited about this direction that Kawasaki is taking when producing an electric motorcycle - or whatever it is. ???
https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model-preview/kawasaki-elektrode-electric-balance-bike-designs-leak-ahead-of-reveal.html
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Very hipster.
Rigid front and rear so should get the HD fraternity seal of approval for impractical styling.
The thing on the front that looks like a cross between the superman emblem and a jock strap is a bit odd though.
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The Del-mar.....I think that bike will sell a few hundred just like the first live wire and the rest will just sit on showroom floors.
I wouldn't be surprised if HD killed off livewire in the next 2-3 years honestly. I don't think spinning off the brand was done because they have been wildly successful.
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Maybe it's aimed for the employees of the Kawa plant, if they have to commute from the engine assembly line to the chassis.
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Here is an article by Motorcycle.com regarding the just revealed Energica Experia Green Tourer: https://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/energica/energica-experia-green-tourer-revealed.html
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"Battery has increase to 22.5 kWh maximum, and the motor puts out 101 peak hp and 85 lb-ft of peak torque – all to propel a claimed 573 lb."
That gets you about 17 - 25 minutes or so WFO on the freeway. The "Ton" generally requires 40-50 HP on unfaired machines, depending. Say you ran 65 MPH at 20KW draw (nominal 26 HP) for an hour, you'd have gone about 65 miles and your battery would be flat.
"Energica claims that it has “the longest range of any electric motorcycle, regardless of speed: from 246 km (153 miles) combined to 420 km (261 miles) in urban areas.” "
As power relates to the square of the speed, WTF? At least we know it has regenerative braking.
Once again, it takes nearly 150 pounds of (GOOD) batteries to equal a (6 pound) gallon of petrol.
This is a lot of expense & inconvenience to replace green synthetic fuels created from PV/Wind electrolysed H2 and recycled carbon. All that petro tech already exists. No reason to turn the transport world upside down if the battery tech just isn't there.
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Back when I was a young whipper snapper they promised us all our vehicles would be powered by little fusion micro-piles by now.
There is an old school alternative for electric vehicles of course, which is guaranteed to work:
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/dodgem-car-riding-country-show-sarina-queensland-australia-august-people-riding-dodgem-cars-sarina-local-country-show-155085930.jpg)
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This is a lot of expense & inconvenience to replace green synthetic fuels created from PV/Wind electrolysed H2 and recycled carbon. All that petro tech already exists. No reason to turn the transport world upside down if the battery tech just isn't there.
How about Gehirnfurz scientists go home or get a job at McDonalds. Regular unleaded and diesel will do fine at much lower cost.
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Diesel is going to be a hard sell for McDonald's. I seriously suggest they stick to high sugar junk food, they seem to have that one well sorted.
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Disels built prior 2000 will take sunflower oil too, could have been a big deal for Mr. Donald
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Here is his car - not sure if it runs on sunflower oil, possible I suppose.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4112/5208198594_3f2cb5dd7c_b.jpg)
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It seems to take a lot of drivers to keep that foot going in the right direction. ;D Apparently, not much in the way of a heater either as everyone seems to be bundled up tighter than a MGA driver. ;)
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@ #649: Schwinggg! Right back into the ozone...
"How about Gehirnfurz scientists go home or get a job at McDonalds. Regular unleaded and diesel will do fine at much lower cost."
The obvious point was to use synfuels in existing transport hardware instead of completely revamping our transportation infrastructure around inadequate battery tech, assuming the intent is to reduce carbon emissions. Synfuels recycle carbon vs. simply adding to the net carbon emissions as the present extraction method does. They also cut the legs off from under the existing Petro overlords,, which is likely the largest argument against their use. Everywhere has either sunlight, wind or tidal currents and plentiful access to carbon, you don't need a Texas to have liquid hydrocarbon fuels.
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Schwingg, here we go again. The petro overloards laughing every time looking at their bank account. The underlying infrastructure is always petrol based. The more green tech is sold the more oil is being used up. If you wanted to save oil you would need to buy a Lada made out of as few components as possible and without electronic gadgets.
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Any reality-based references for this conclusion?
"The more green tech is sold the more oil is being used up"
I certainly agree with this though. They have the US subsidizing their operation whilst showing record profits. It's GOOD to be able to write the rules you operate under. Works for the Utilities too. Those Campaign donations have a great Rate of Return...
The petro overloards laughing every time looking at their bank account.
https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds#:~:text=Fossil%20Fuels%20Received%20%245.9%20Trillion%20In%20Subsidies%20in%202020%2C%20Report%20Finds,-An%20open%2Dpit&text=Coal%2C%20oil%2C%20and%20natural%20gas,8%20percent%20of%20the%20total.
Coal, oil, and natural gas received $5.9 trillion in subsidies in 2020 — or roughly $11 million every minute — according to a new analysis from the International Monetary Fund.
Explicit subsidies accounted for only 8 percent of the total. The remaining 92 percent were implicit subsidies, which took the form of tax breaks or, to a much larger degree, health and environmental damages that were not priced into the cost of fossil fuels, according to the analysis.
“Underpricing leads to overconsumption of fossil fuels, which accelerates global warming and exacerbates domestic environmental problems including losses to human life from local air pollution and excessive and road congestion and accidents,” authors wrote. “This has long been recognized, but globally countries are still a long way from getting energy prices right.”
The report found that 47 percent of natural gas and 99 percent of coal is priced at less than half its true cost, and that just five countries — China, the United States, Russia, India, and Japan — account for two-thirds of subsidies globally. All five countries belong to the G20, which in 2009 agreed to phase out “inefficient” fossil fuel subsidies “over the medium term.”
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Well how about letting the oil and gas industry go bust. I would love to see the swedish 5 ton hybrid suv and ev drivers doing a 160mph on the motorways followed by mad max.
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"Well how about letting the oil and gas industry go bust"
Think about it. You and I are sharp enough to know that we need some savings in the bank, rice & beans in the cupboard to withstand hard times. Can you honestly say that an industry with record profit margins and a fleet of accountants and other financial people on tap can't behave similarly? Drop the subsidies and tell them that they'll be Nationalized if they go belly up. A 5% or 10% RoR is great for you & me, they can live on the same percentages. Stop subsidizing the wealthy to "mine" public lands. We can easily do that ourselves, the tech's been around over 100 years, all the Craft folk and their knowledge are still out there. Paying the workerbees full pop to do what they do is waaay cheaper than subsidizing a cartel of absurdly wealthy wargamers.
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I agree with you, but a hord of accountants subscribes to mass psychosis if it works under government supervision or a bord of directors. So instead of bord of directors you may land up with oligarchs who additionally may control the law and order including the police. Why do I doubt there may not be so awfully more left at the table for the working bee.
In Sweden they have unions that regulate the salaries, i don't remember actually anyone who would come close to the official figures. Apart some rabates and free "something" nobody asked for.
Well maybe the Gehirnfurz scientists inventing the fossile free transport may see the figures on their salary slips.
I actually liked the way the Trump administration treated the big CEO's of the major corps, like little boys.
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By the way, they reducing the tax on fuel from tomorrow by a considerable margin. Guess what happened, the prices rose 2-3 days in advance by ~ the same margin. A cow won't outrun the rabbit. The cow may need to go on a diet.
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45? Best carpetbagger ever elected. By the way, the Social Security administration, Medicare, the military, all are 'gummin't agencies that have accountants & money folks, they seem to do OK. A Board of Directors for a private company is a very different animal than a 'gummin't agency. Scraping off the overhead required to maintain the rich & famous leaves a lot more cash for system maintenance & upgrades.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/25/donald-trump-says-pols-are-beholden-to-big-donors-so-why-is-he-raising-super-pac-funds/
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/12/you-all-just-got-a-lot-richer-trump-tells-friends-at-mar-a-lago-after-signing-tax-overhaul
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-mar-a-lago-christmas-trip/
"You all just got a lot richer," Trump tells friends
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/09/trump-tells-donors-to-give-him-money-not-republicans-in-name-only.html
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A recent saying goes, the day Shit is going to be Gold worth the poor will keep getting born without an asshole. Canada won't have it soon...
https://youtu.be/cVa4MwXl4WA
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https://www.dw.com/en/ford-in-germany-faces-possible-sales-ban-reports/a-61883684
...they paid the licensing fee to some japses patent holding scammers to avoid the sales ban. Throwing that stupid chip out was apparently not an option.
If you get by any chance a job in any of those companies, just do anything you like there but building cars, that would cause only cost - not to be honoured.
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Looks more like an Industrial-scale pissing contest to me. Large Industry over here is used to getting their way. Mercedes. BMW, Audi, VW, and a host of others are likely anticipating extra sales right now. Why anyone "needs" a "connected car" when they have a cell phone and GPS already truly escapes me. Maybe because the advertisers told them they need it?
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www.flightradar24.com
Maybe the goal is to have a vehicleradar24, sounds like s neat idea. I would install a swedish warning app on my cellphone so i know when to get ready for appropriate action.
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I think the shoebox size cellphones(aka computers...) the "young folk" carry already can accommodate this function.
Mebbe this spyware is right up your alley... :o 8)
https://parentalcontrolnow.org/best-spying-apps/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwnNyUBhCZARIsAI9AYlGIikBdcELgBRN4IQhNzIbZlzORdTO-Rw55cl2zVnYOWMic0b-lEm4aAnoCEALw_wcB
Personally, I dunno why an 8 year old needs to be electronically "connected" to a world full of creeps & weirdos. As far as I'm concerned, kids get a cell phone AFTER they have a job and can pay for the service and hardware themselves. And as far as spending my time spying on my kids, if I ever felt I had to do that, their cell phone that Gramma gifted them with would immediately get the "Hammer Test" and "Bucket of Salt Water" trial. Kids do not need their own cell phone, especially the big screen, multi-app models. MAYBE a Tracfone Nokia pay-per-use "brick" loaner to take to the movies on occasion.
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https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/01/elon-musk-return-to-office-pretend-to-work-somewhere-else
...I thought offices are to 80% full with pretenders, Musk himself being the numero uno, why does he have an issue with that all of sudden?
Pretty sure he's got an employeeradar24 already, to check where everyone is hanging around.
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...and something actually on topic... ::)
(May 19, 2022 ) https://wealthygorilla.com/best-electric-motorcycles/
https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-news/top-10-electric-motorcycles-in-2022-ar195129.html
https://luxe.digital/lifestyle/cars/best-electric-motorcycles/
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Personally, I dunno why an 8 year old needs to be electronically "connected" to a world full of creeps & weirdos.
Most kids just talk to their school friends. Having had teenage daughters, I can assure you if they are inclined to see "creep and weirdo" as cool and edgy they will track down a local stoner, unemployed heavy metal guitarist or redneck pickup driving racist to latch on to and sneak around to hook up with. If anything the daughter having a thing for a weirdo from another continent is more manageable.
Understanding teenagers is the biggest issue. Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGx4VtwMnfM
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The understanding starts here.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less
-Oscar Wilde
.
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Cell phones are rarely a survival necessity. A child doesn't need their own personal cell phone. If the teens are participating in defraying the cost of their electronic toys, that would make some sense. The $1000 - $2000 for a smart phone can be better spent elsewhere. A "brick" phone or flip phone is cheap & allows real time voice communication but doesn't function well as an echo chamber/ time filler/isolation device. Training people to be unaware of their immediate surrounding benefits those worthies providing the electronic distraction, not the users.
https://www.psypost.org/2018/05/just-cell-phone-possession-can-impair-learning-study-suggests-51228#:~:text=New%20research%20on%20college%20students,when%20they%20weren't%20used.
https://www.rutgers.edu/news/cellphone-distraction-classroom-can-lead-lower-grades-rutgers-study-finds
https://www.verywellfamily.com/how-smartphones-are-creating-distractions-in-the-classroom-4174646
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/12/theyre-abysmal-students-are-cell-phones-destroying-the-college-classroom/
https://www.edutopia.org/video/theres-cell-phone-your-students-head#:~:text=Many%20studies%20have%20investigated%20the,are%20not%20dividing%20their%20attention.
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No fireworks are as entertaining as electric fireworks. Imagine what would happen if you or me would set it on fire or be responsible for the design. If Gehirnfurz scientists do it, than it's well ok.
https://youtu.be/5r-yN8SugWM
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Yup - battery driven meltdowns are like metal fires, tough to put out. The only good news is there is more FRP and aluminum in modern battery vehicles so less to clean up later. That thick cloud of toxic black smoke would have been really bad news to be in the middle of. Another argument for synthetic hydrocarbon fuels if you are trying for a net-zero carbon situation. Firemen already know how to deal with burning gas or diesel.
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Here is the new Kawasaki Balance bike in action. Don't get too excited. ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKDfSIQrzH8
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I'm seeing $1100 being bandied about...?
https://www.motorcycledaily.com/2022/06/kawasaki-announces-electric-model-for-youngters-the-elektrode/
Searching "250 watt kid electric dirt bike" gives quite a few selections for around $500ish. Are we just buying "style"?
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What I have read in new model previews is that you need a more restrictive muffler to meet US EPA and DOT sound regulations in addition the the chassis modifications mentioned above. That is why EU models make more power than the US versions, at least when it comes to comparing their fastest bikes where top end power equates to bragging rights.
I'm not sure what its like today but when the Motus was coming out I met with the two partners about getting the bikes certified for California. They needed someone to shepherd the physical tests, put on the miles and do the paper work. I thought it would be a hoot. Turns out it was going to require 3 full time people, take nearly half a year and 4 bikes. They passed on trying to sell here. California. I actually don't know if they ever did get certified. That was right about the time that Apriia bailed on California for a year because they were changing the final drive ratios on there bikes and was facing a total re-certification. It was just too expensive and slow to bother. I know that we are the worst of the worst for this stuff but that is why RE makes some decisions to comply with the "world bike" standard vendors like the handlebar switches etc. If you park a RE 650 next to a 2006 SV-650 you will spot a number of same source stuff because it has already been approved.
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Here is a review of the Stark VARG electric motocross model that was recently introduced to the press: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/stark-varg-electric-motocross-first-ride
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https://www.carandbike.com/news/dutch-student-racing-team-unveils-delta-xe-electric-superbike-2459179
...here the roadgoing electric counterpart to the swedish whiffet. I suppose when the battery goes ballistix in this one it may make ghostrider look like an amateur. ;D
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...here the roadgoing electric counterpart to the swedish whiffet. I suppose when the battery goes ballistix in this one it may make ghostrider look like an amateur. ;D
whereas riding around with a few gallons of gasoline between your legs is perfectly safe and never known to cause any issues
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whereas riding around with a few gallons of gasoline between your legs is perfectly safe and never known to cause any issues
Actually yes, you can throw a burning cigarette in a full tank nothing will happen unless it's a holywood movie. Also unlikely to start when parked.
I doubt the stability of the battery pack will increase with higher energy density numbers. It may become a matter of statistics.
https://youtu.be/T71cVhxG_v4
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https://youtu.be/rmP3UYZX54U
...when pregnant Kenneths and trailer trash Barbies design trucks for reagional transport. How about taking one for your shopping tour in your local supermarket.
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That's a damn fine suit that Swedish CEO was wearing. Looks a "fur piece" from any sartorial splendor the trailer park denizens inhabiting the trailer parks I've lived in paraded about with. I think we've beat the regional electric truck argument into submission elsewhere, I guess it was just time for your irrational desire to denigrate Sweden to fight it's way to the top of the thought pile. What a waste of intellect.
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Denignate? Have you ever seen such an urge to "deliver"? Me not. :o
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Back on the subject again, here is nothing but wishful thinking regarding Tesla marketing an E-bike. But I could see them doing it in the future for their car, SUV and pickup owners to stuff in the back of their vehicles when they want to ride something with two wheels and not needing to pedal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EucNyTsfQMA
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@ # 683: Denignate? Have you ever seen such an urge to "deliver"? Me not.
Denigrate: den·i·grate ; /ˈdenəˌɡrāt/ ; verb ; criticize unfairly; disparage. ; "there is a tendency to denigrate the poor"
English, red in tooth & claw...redefining words to suit yourself makes meaningful communication difficult.
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And what would I want to discuss with the Sweets anyway, the contribution of sunshine to the manufacturing of motor vehicles? ...a good weather tax maybe?
Give me a break.
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If you are posting with no intent to communicate, I'm not seeing the rationale. You could more easily stick your head out your window and howl, or write "spirit notes" on paper & then burn them the Chinese way, same net result. Besides, awhile back you said something to the effect that that is was pointless to agonize over things that had happened in the past. We all agree.
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Well I'm keen to see your followers who agree with you how they'll go about setting up the H2 infrastructure and the fossile free transport. :)
And I'm amazed what they've got away with already, I really am. ;)
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Back on the subject again, here is nothing but wishful thinking regarding Tesla marketing an E-bike. But I could see them doing it in the future for their car, SUV and pickup owners to stuff in the back of their vehicles when they want to ride something with two wheels and not needing to pedal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EucNyTsfQMA
I am quite confident tesla will bring out a riderless e-bike where you just punch in your destination and let the Tesla-bike drive for you.
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I am quite confident tesla will bring out a riderless e-bike where you just punch in your destination and let the Tesla-bike drive for you.
Until it falls over. ;) Tesla is currently under the eye of the U.S. government for their large number of crashes while in Auto Pilot mode. The word is that all Teslas made since 2014 might be recalled to have the Pilot reprogrammed. :o
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I am still waiting for the Tesla driverless skateboard.
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I keep wondering why business believes there is a market for driverless cars. People like the power & control experience of driving. Taxi cabs are available for MUCH less than $60K - $200K; you could ride a cab for many years for the price of a self-driving car. Or take busses, or trains, or planes, or Uber, etc. instead. Dealers today can barely keep "normal" cars repaired, what chance do they possibly have of keeping a highly automated robot functional? It looks more like a marketing ploy rather than filling a real need; way too much faith in "magical tech" that isn't really there.
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Probably because they work like the Pregnant Kenneths & Trash trailer Barbies in sweden. They belive it in the hopes that someone comes up with it so that they can buy it or preferably steel it and sell it as their innovation with profit.
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Damn - I was hoping #688 was a trend...not an exception. Back to grasping at Swedish straws in lieu of actual communication of useful ideas or salient, reasoned opinion.
...maybe?? :o
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61793984
How human-like are the most sophisticated chatbots?
Simply put, a chat bot is a computer program deliberately designed to mimic and respond to human speech.
But just how lifelike are the best on the market? One thing for sure is that these intelligent virtual assistants, are now found everywhere.
From Amazon's Alexa, to Apple's Siri, or a retailer's website, an estimated 80% of us now use chatbots - whether they are responding to us verbally, or via written text.
In fact, chatbots are now said to be the fastest-growing way in which brands communicate with their customers.
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I keep wondering why business believes there is a market for driverless cars. People like the power & control experience of driving. Taxi cabs are available for MUCH less than $60K - $200K; you could ride a cab for many years for the price of a self-driving car. Or take busses, or trains, or planes, or Uber, etc. instead. Dealers today can barely keep "normal" cars repaired, what chance do they possibly have of keeping a highly automated robot functional? It looks more like a marketing ploy rather than filling a real need; way too much faith in "magical tech" that isn't really there.
I think these might appeal to the folks who are now choosing between Uber, public transport and staying home in their virtual online world.
But I think the real motivation for development is NOT coming from consumer market, it's:
- Government agencies know that the transponders required will make the lemmings easier to control, tax and regulate.
- Insurance companies want the easy money and few payouts that will be required when operator error is taken off the table. Imagine a world with no divided liability!
- Lawyers are drooling at the depth of those pockets.
I can't imagine any "car guy" or "motorcycle rider" being in favor of self driving, but I do acknowledge that there is diversity among the world's inhabitants. https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-own-a-car-in-the-world-compared-to-the-number-of-people-that-live-on-this-Earth
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https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1624201/russia-news-mocked-unveiling-sanctions-lada-granta
...which unfortunately starts to make the upcoming Ladas and Moskwitch rather appealing considering all the things it doesn't have on board and i sure would have never paid the extra for if it was on the list of extras.
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Derottone - I'm in full agreement with the Lada option. I saw the "extras" that were left out and just shrugged. Even the Olde Skool Ladas would make good transportation. I'm not a big fan of buying a machine just for all the electrowhizzies grafted onto it. As best I can tell we need more hardware like the user-friendly, user repairable 1936 Volkswagens, not more 'Net connected transport.
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It's sad to think that American car companies CAN build nice, durable, functional equipment but choose not to sell them in the USA. We get "pretty"'Net Connected kak. My favorite examples are the really nice, fuel-efficient, small TDI motors and platforms sold in Europe that never make it here (especially the Toyota, Honda & Nissan units), whilst we get to choose which $80K, 200 mile range battery-powered pickup or ginormous 12 MPG diesel pickup we can purchase. But hey, it's a free market, right? Just buy what's offered, shut up & sit down.
https://www.hotcars.com/the-ak-47-of-cars-lada-niva-awesome-suv-that-deserves-respect/
Starting life as the VAZ-2121, the car's name was changed to the Lada Niva but mechanically is still relatively unchanged and in production today. Excelling in its rugged simplicity, the Lada Niva is perhaps one of the most unstoppable and dependable SUVs anyone can buy, able to tackle off-road driving better than most expensive off-road machines as custom Jeeps can.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva
In August 2020, Lada took over production of the 2003 Chevrolet Niva and rebranded it the "new" Lada Niva.[8] In December 2020, the new Niva was further rebranded as the Lada Niva Travel, while the old model was renamed Lada Niva Legend in January 2021.[9][3]
Outside Russia, the Niva primarily competes with the Suzuki Jimny, a similarly designed off-road mini SUV.
Lada Niva Travel (2021 - Present)
In 2019 Lada acquired General Motors' stake in GM-AvtoVAZ[38] and then announced that the Chevrolet Niva would be produced under Lada's name. The rebranded Lada Niva was revealed by AvtoVAZ in July 2020,[39] with the firm saying that there was still strong demand for the 20 year old car. The 2020 model is produced at the Togliatti factory with minor design updates (but no technical changes) and joins the Lada 4×4 in the firm's range.
In December 2020, following a new generation of the car, the new Lada Niva was further rebranded as Lada Niva Travel, while the old Lada 4x4 was rebranded as the Lada Niva Legend in January 2021.[5][40]
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Looks good the Niva, why would anyone take the Jimny over the Niva? Considering it costs half.
Bedsides of that I'm prettty fed up meeting also on my undeserved holiday germans in the latest fattest Benz that turn out to speak some arabic or russian slang.
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We had a Lada Niva when I lived on a farm many years ago, the wife used it daily and for shopping the thing was built like a tank and even had a crank starting adaptor on the front pully to start with a winding handle, you could service it with a swiss army knife and if you wanted to make it more reliable you swapped the old carb for a webber, in all it was a good old motor for the money, [new ones are a lot more money]
You just had to keep it from rotting by waxing the underbody and inner panels.
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https://www.ft.com/content/f662a412-9ebc-473a-baca-22de5ff622e2
...some good news at last, well something´s got to power the EV's. ;D
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Electricity comes from the wall plugs, everyone knows that... :o
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Electricity comes from the wall plugs, everyone knows that... :o
The only small issue we are going to encounter soon similar to sweden is that you're going to have to be an idiot to go voluntarily to work while the rest enjoys the electrifying corona holiday.
Maybe the high income retirees will have to keep the cole power plants running as a return to society.
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The countries that have outbred their food supply will provide expendable soldiery for those willing to use them against their chosen targets of opportunity. The "advanced" countries will have to decide how brutal they are willing to be. My guess is that biotech will be employed to clear the field, it's easy enough to do, self-sustaining and cheap. Colder climate countries with some rainfall, nuke, wind & ocean current resources will likely hold on longer. All of this will be VERY hard on the wildlife, but that is where the folks unwilling to discuss population control are taking us. All hail "Rape & Pillage" style capitalism, every man a king, too bad for the other guy. Apparently warfare over dwindling resources is considered a better methodology than self control in their minds. All of this is coming to a head very soon as millions in Asia & Africa are currently facing starvation, and desperation breeds desperate solutions. At some point reality will determine an equilibrium solution, albeit likely way too late for most of us. Nature is not your friend; most all species that have ever existed have gone extinct; that's the norm. NONE of this is inevitable, but unless sanity breaks out soon...it's probable.
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Some great Ideas there, you should love the sweets than. I think no driving license for anyone over 60 years old is already in the making. They should implement it quick as long as the generation that actually deserves it can get the feel for their benefits.
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Some great Ideas there, you should love the sweets than. I think no driving license for anyone over 60 years old is already in the making. They should implement it quick as long as the generation that actually deserves it can get the feel for their benefits.
California has your idea beat. I just renewed my driver's license at the age of 78. In years past the CA DMV would make me go into one of their dreary and crowded offices, after making an appointment 90 days in advance of when my license expired. After reaching 70 you would need to do that every 5 years to take an eye exam (if you are blind you could probably get a handicap driving and parking permit), a written (now computerized) driving subject test for both an automobile and a motorcycle. Both tests would test your ability to memorize the DMV driver's pamphlet, not your actual driving knowledge, and having a new photo of your face taken for your new license document.
However, this year I was able to renew my driver's license for another 5 years at home via my computer. After creating an account, I didn't even have to answer any driving knowledge questions. All they wanted to know was what political party I wanted to vote for and if I wanted to change my political affiliation. ??? Then they asked me to give them $39, plus 2% for a credit card service fee. At least I got away without having to pay a 10% sales tax. So that was another plus. ;) It would be really nice if I could do this again in another 5 years when my new license expires. :)
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Who's idea? Anyway that's is why i would never convert my old forever german driving licence to the fuc#@ing swedish one that already has to be renewed every 5 years or so.
Well the EU with the support of our good freedom loving American friends may force it on us soon anyway unless Putin finally rolls into Berlin or better Brussels. ;)
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"Some great Ideas there" So, I guess you are looking forward to mass starvation, bio-warfare and disposable proxy armies? Not a word about a possible plan or actions to prevent that grim outcome? Just stand by and watch the train wreck? So you have no interest in the outcome, no desire to minimize the total B.S., just stand on the sidelines cheering on the carnage?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schadenfreude
Oh, and I see we're back to obsessing about Sweden despite acknowledging that it's all in the past and therefore unchangeable, therefore not to be dwelt upon. And we're also looking forward to Vlad taking control of Europe and bringing freedom to the masses. BSI must be all ears.
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If you ever developed anything you would know that there is no such think as a plan that doesn't fail.
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Some great Ideas there, you should love the sweets than. I think no driving license for anyone over 60 years old is already in the making. They should implement it quick as long as the generation that actually deserves it can get the feel for their benefits.
In some cases a good idea.
I was working in a youth drop in centre a few years ago when we heard a huge crash out the front. When we went out to look someone had sideswiped the unmarked police car driven by the policewomen who ran the place and wiped out front fender both doors and rear fender on the drivers side. It was assumed by us at the time it had been hit by some kid in a stolen car who did not know how to drive. Luckily someone had seen the incident and written down the number plate so she got on the radio and got some one to look up the plate and go around to talk to the owners.
Turned out it was not stolen at all, the 90 year old owner had side swiped the police car without even realising he had hit anything. Apparently he was totally shocked by the damage when they took him out to look at his car. Seems he had some sort of turn while driving and had no recollection of it.
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"If you ever developed anything you would know that there is no such think as a plan that doesn't fail."
The projects I've run depend having a clear goal and anticipating adverse issues, then exercising due diligence to see they either don't happen or you develop a functional work-around. Generally a well thought out plan will have a high probability of success. Sorry all your plans apparently fail, but a 100% failure rate also tells you something... :o
Actually I doubt you meant that every plan fails, what I think you were getting at was your initial attempt to achieve an outcome may not work out. In my book the only true failure is if you don't learn anything. I think your GT535 is a good example of a plan succeeding. I'm also certain that there were some "learning opportunities" that happened, which you learned from and modified your strategy until you succeeded. ;)
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Well there are many famous failed plans that have achieved the "glorious failure" status. The Charge of the light Brigade comes to mine. Guy Fawkes attempt to blow up British Parliament is another. There are many others that have gone on to be eulogized over and over, the sinking of the Titanic, the tragic loss of the first Apollo, the entire Vietnam War.
Some plans actually work out though, the Moon Landing, the complete eradication of Small Pox, Donald trump's plan to become the 45th President of the United States.
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The moon landing wouldn't have happened if there were no countless events in which the technology requied matured, if physics said it's not plausible, if they had a rigid time plan and fixed budget like in the case of Guy Fawkes.
The plan to eradicate the small pox was probably as much of a plan as Teslas plan to provide AC current to every household but an idea that went viral.
Ok, Donald. If he he had a master plan? Probably, doubt there were no adjustments on the way though. The probably highest achievement of Donald was to popularise Twitter which than people who never used social media before started to tune to in order to check what he actually said. As greatful as any of those lesbian companies on psycho drugs are they've banned him in return. ;D
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I am curious to know what other "lesbian companies on psycho drugs" are around, aside from twitter of course.
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I am curious to know what other "lesbian companies on psycho drugs" are around, aside from twitter of course.
Who would know. However, a company that lends itself to the Mckinsey company inpregnators for example can only be be lesbian and on drugs.
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"As greatful as any of those lesbian companies on psycho drugs are they've banned him in return."
"I am curious to know what other "lesbian companies on psycho drugs" are around, aside from twitter of course."
"Who would know. However, a company that lends itself to the Mckinsey company inpregnators for example can only be be lesbian and on drugs."
Fascinating that you could be asked a direct question about something that you had just referred to, wrote down & then promptly deny any knowledge of the topic. What exactly are we doing here, just mindlessly citing from the Roskomnadzor (RKN; Роскомнадзор) list of talking points of the day for a few rubles? The rest of us are here largely engaging in an amiable (sorta) exchange of ideas, tech tips and lore. Typing words that you have no actual interest in on a screen to possibly wind up others is just juvenile trolling. You are obviously & demonstrably able to do a lot better than that, and that's the guy we should be talking to, the guy we enjoy talking to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskomnadzor#:~:text=The%20Federal%20Service%20for%20Supervision,and%20censoring%20Russian%20mass%20media.
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https://ridermagazine.com/2022/06/22/triumph-acquires-electric-manufacturer-oset-bikes/
Triumph Motorcycles takes another exciting step in the off-road world through the acquisition of OSET Bikes, a leader in the world of children’s electric, off-road motorcycles. Started in 2004 by Ian Smith, who wanted to build an electric off-road bike for his son Oliver, OSET has been setting the benchmark in its segment for the past 18 years. OSET has sold more than 40,000 bikes globally that feature their inhouse developed electric powertrains.
The acquisition of OSET sits within Triumph’s strategy of entering the off-road segment, announced in 2020, and provides both companies with the opportunity to share and benefit from each other’s knowledge and experience in their respective segments, enabling both brands to grow internationally in parallel.
Triumph’s philosophy, For The Ride, played an important role in the acquisition of OSET as it enables the Hinckley-based brand to inspire future generations of riders by providing them with the perfect starting point to develop their passion and dreams. OSET Bikes offers products that are suitable for any rider, starting from 3 years old and upwards.
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Get them young ...
(https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/10/oset-125-header.jpg?w=2000&quality=82&strip=all&ssl=1)
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https://ridermagazine.com/2022/06/22/triumph-acquires-electric-manufacturer-oset-bikes/
Triumph Motorcycles takes another exciting step in the off-road world through the acquisition of OSET Bikes, a leader in the world of children’s electric, off-road motorcycles. Started in 2004 by Ian Smith, who wanted to build an electric off-road bike for his son Oliver, OSET has been setting the benchmark in its segment for the past 18 years. OSET has sold more than 40,000 bikes globally that feature their inhouse developed electric powertrains.
The acquisition of OSET sits within Triumph’s strategy of entering the off-road segment, announced in 2020, and provides both companies with the opportunity to share and benefit from each other’s knowledge and experience in their respective segments, enabling both brands to grow internationally in parallel.
Triumph’s philosophy, For The Ride, played an important role in the acquisition of OSET as it enables the Hinckley-based brand to inspire future generations of riders by providing them with the perfect starting point to develop their passion and dreams. OSET Bikes offers products that are suitable for any rider, starting from 3 years old and upwards.
Triumph seems to be following Kawasaki in marketing electric mini-bikes for children. But what happened to their big push to design and manufacture a World-beating, highway-legal, electric motorcycle that was announced about 6 months ago? Other than H-D, who spun off their EV to a mostly independent company (because they didn't want to get an EV too close to their Big Twin market?), why have none of the big, established, motorcycle manufacturers, entered the freeway-legal electric motorcycle market? Even BMW seems to just fart around with scooters, while teasing a motorcycle concept, with apparently not much progress toward actually mass-producing and marketing one. Could it have something to do with money and lack of customer demand? ???
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The first manufacturer who solves fastcharging and long range together with production capability for the motorcycle, will get the market. If it takes any longer, maybe Tesla will take up the stick.
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The first manufacturer who solves fastcharging and long range together with production capability for the motorcycle, will get the market. If it takes any longer, maybe Tesla will take up the stick.
Lots of people saying this on forums, but clearly long range is not a marketplace essential for everyone.
For example, Piaggio sold millions of Vespas for decades with tiny tanks (1/2 gallon - 2 gallon) and not very great fuel economy. Some people used them for touring, but most didn't.
The stand-up electric scooter market sold something like 13 million units between 2003 and 2019. I know people who use one of these as their PRIMARY form of transportation ( in conjunction with public / private transport for long distance travel), and these vehicles generally have a total range less than 50 miles.
In my country, known for wide open vistas and long distances, the average distance a vehicle travels in a day has been shown to be less than 50 miles. For 2nd vehicles in multi-vehicle households, the number drops to half that. https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1047-september-17-2018-daily-vehicle-miles-traveled-varies-number
Once every few years, I want to travel more than a few hundred miles in a day. 200 days of the year, I NEED to travel 11.2 -11.5 miles, the variance depending on what I have for lunch. Should I penalize my daily needs to fulfill my 1/600 day wants? Or should I just rent a car?
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There you go again, separating needs from wants... :o ;D ;D ;D
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You may buy an electric scooter with 50 miles range. I will just buy an electric motorcycle that has the same usercase as my Harley has:200 miles range, fastcharging, essential power.
I think that is true for most of the potential EBike buyers. As they will be quite expensive in the beginning. So the buyers will come from the Harley/BMW hemisphere.
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I think that is true for most of the potential EBike buyers. As they will be quite expensive in the beginning. So the buyers will come from the Harley/BMW hemisphere.
Road legal basic electric scooters here are cheaper than a new Meteor 350. In some states you can ride them on the road with just a car licence.
The Meteor is much more versatile but if you only want it to ride 20 minutes to work a day they are relatively cheap.
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You may buy an electric scooter with 50 miles range. I will just buy an electric motorcycle that has the same usercase as my Harley has:200 miles range, fastcharging, essential power.
I think that is true for most of the potential EBike buyers. As they will be quite expensive in the beginning. So the buyers will come from the Harley/BMW hemisphere.
Let me first point out that this thread was created to discuss E-bikes that look like this:
https://media.wired.com/photos/6116c71586407d6dcacb9272/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/Gear-Cannondale-Adventure-Neo-3.jpg
or perhaps like this:
https://www.electrive.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/echo3-energy-2020-min.png
But let's talk about your suggestion that people with a preference such as you've expressed, for large, expensive, high powered E-motos, represent the majority of the marketplace.
In the USA 263,000 E-bicycles were sold in 2017, over 400,000 in 2018, and the market has continued to trend upwards since.
In Europe, 2.6 million E-Bicycles were sold in 2018, and sales volume is trending upwards yearly.
China manufactured 37 million E-bicycles in 2013, and the number has increased since.
In the first 33 months of sales, Harley Davidson sold 1648 units of Livewire motos.
Zero sells around 4000 of their machines on a yearly basis.
Sondors claims to have already outsold the combined output of these two companies with their $5000, 200 lb Metacycle, which advertises an 80 mile range and 80 mph top speed, even though they have yet to deliver a single machine to a customer.
Unless you have evidence to the contrary, all available information suggests that:
- A light, inexpensive E-motorcycle will outsell heavy, expensive, high performance E-Motos by at least 2:1, probably closer to 10:1
- E-bicycles outsell even the lightest E-Motos at a ratio something like 300:1
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E-Bicycles are everywhere. Our local university even has them available to students for free on presentation of a student card.
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Is there a conceptual misunderstanding, that an EBicycles or a Scooter are something completely different than an electric motorcycle?
Until now there is no valid Electric motorcycle available (range, fastcharging, power), that can be used as an alternative to real bikes. It is easy to outsell things that do not exist.
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Moat E bicycles are not road registerable so yes they serve a different purpose. Conventional ones are more city transport and teh electric mountain bikes tend to be very portable trail bikes you can take away with you camping and recharge from your RV or other vehicle. Like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecGPx_neUbk
They are worth discussing as these are where the successful "real " bikes will eventually evolve from, not some big research project that makes a splash in the social media and disappears.
E-Bicycles and road registered E-Scooters will eventually evolve to take over the 100-250cc market. Currently in Australia you can get this for $7690
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2022-super-soco-cpx/OAG-AD-20125585/?Cr=0
versus this Honda for $5299
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2022-honda-pcx150-my21/SHRM-AD-587451/?Cr=5
If your after a cheap commuter for your daughter to ride to college for example the electric scooter is getting competitive.
That said - I am not expecting to see any E-Harley-Cruisers or E-Hyper-Sports 300 kmh electric bikes available for the average punter any time in the near future.
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Probably the most powerful and traditional-looking mass-produced electric motorcycles are the Italian-manufactured Energica brand EVs, which have been on the market for the past 6 years, or so. Not cheap, but they are pretty popular, especially in Europe and also in the U.S., for those that can afford their price, which compares with premium BMW models. In California, they are sold at several BMW motorcycle dealers, such as Calmoto in Livermore and A&S, east of Sacramento. So far there are few complaints about their bikes and most owners seem to love riding them. Due to their ability to be DC fast charged, they have been used for long-distance touring by a number of owners.
Energica has just announced a new sport-touring model called the Experia, which looks a lot like a Ducati Multistrata. Here is a link to a description of this new electric touring bike: https://www.energicamotor.com/en/models/energica-experia/
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I haven't seen one around, incredible though how much cash seems to be hiding in the vosp nest behind the green tree, someone should throw a molotov there.
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I haven't seen one around, incredible though how much cash seems to be hiding in the vosp nest behind the green tree, someone should throw a molotov there.
You do realise Greta rides one ?
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You do realise Greta rides one ?
I'm sure, paid for with the money she forgot to pay for the work she ordered.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-22/musk-says-tesla-s-new-factories-are-losing-billions-of-dollars
The sooner this "my" taxmoney consuming company takes their ars out of here the better. There is of course nothing wrong with the product and the business model.
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No mention lately of Triumph's proposed world-beating electric motorcycle that they were working on last year, but they have bought the OSET off-road electric bike company.
https://thepack.news/triumph-announced-the-acquisition-of-the-electric-motorcycle-manufacturer-oset-bikes/
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Sounds familiar...
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-62120130
Aerospace electrified by new technology
However, in testing, the plane will run as a hybrid. Initially just one of the four engines will be replaced by an electric motor, with others following if the tests are successful.
According to Wright Electric's chief executive, Jeffrey Engler, potential customers think this is a good approach and one they could also follow when the aircraft enters production.
"When we spoke to the airlines, they said, 'Well why don't you go hybrid initially, instead of full electric from the start?'" he explains.
"Just like the car industry started with hybrids as well. So that's something we're looking into."
The main reason electrifying aircraft is so difficult is that even the best batteries contain far less energy per kilogram than traditional aviation fuels, making them much too heavy to power an airliner over long distances. "The specific energy of today's batteries is far from what you would need," explains Dr Andreas Strohmayer, head of the University of Stuttgart's Institute of Aircraft Design.
The Institute has been researching the potential of electric and hybrid aviation since the mid-1990s, and first flew its own experimental two-seater electric plane, the e-Genius, more than a decade ago.
"We build our own battery systems for our electric aircraft," he explains
"We are getting in the region of 200 watt [hours] per kilogram, where we would need 1,000 or 1,500. So we are far from what we would need for a large aircraft."
His view is that small, light electric aircraft, of up to six seats can be built with today's technology.
He also believes it should be possible to build a larger commuter aircraft, with up to 19 seats while still relying purely on battery power, though it would be "at the edge of what is currently possible".
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Back to E-Bike developments: Here is someone who has come up with a "bolt-on" electric motor conversion for small 50cc-class ICE bikes. The only minor issues are that he is looking for investors and apparently only has a computer drawing concept of the idea . But I am sure he can work out these details once he gets enough investors - or maybe a government grant. https://thepack.news/e-core-is-a-new-alternative-for-e-mobility-in-the-existing-worldwide-lightweight-motorbike-market/
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Yeah, me too, only mine is under development in Tahiti. Send a shoebox of unmarked bills to:
"Livin' the Life!" 69 Remittance Lane, Tahiti, French Polynesia... ;D ;D ;D
Hmmm...maybe he's a day late & a dollar short...?
https://cscmotorcycles.com/csc-monterey-electric-scooter-yellow/
https://cscmotorcycles.com/city-slicker-black/
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Yeah, me too, only mine is under development in Tahiti. Send a shoebox of unmarked bills to:
"Livin' the Life!" 69 Remittance Lane, Tahiti, French Polynesia... ;D ;D ;D
Hmmm...maybe he's a day late & a dollar short...?
https://cscmotorcycles.com/csc-monterey-electric-scooter-yellow/
https://cscmotorcycles.com/city-slicker-black/
;D
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Electric is in the future for all of us.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1732/6501/products/AFIKIMAfiscooterS4-WheelScooterBlueDualeSeatSideView_1024x1024.jpg)
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RIGHT to the HEART! :o ;D ;D ;D
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The only minor issues are that he is looking for investors and apparently only has a computer drawing concept of the idea .
It seems like people who can operate a solid modeler are the new snake oil salesmen. Anytime I see a rendered image my spider sense starts tingling, but apparently a lot of other people don't see much difference between a computer generated image, and something more tangible. They do seem to "snake" a lot of people.
A friend of mine was all excited about this "opportunity". It isn't E-vehicle related, but I think it's definitely one of "those sorts" of situations, an entirely new engine design, looking for investors and licensees: https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-news/new-wankel-engine-development-gives-incredible-power-for-low-low-weight-ar194403.html
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Your friend is about 55 years late to the game...
https://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/stories/rotary/newfrontier/
On May 30, 1967, the Cosmo Sport was premiered, marking the debut of the world’s first mass production car powered by a two-rotor rotary engine.
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You would think rotary motorcycles have never been tried before:
Suzuki
(https://cdn.visordown.com/styles/v2_mid/s3/field/image/6%20Suzuki%20RE5.jpg)
DKW
(https://www.oldbikemag.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/OBA3-Rotaries-4.jpg)
Crieghton
(https://assets.newatlas.com/dims4/default/c163f14/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2626x1751+0+0/resize/1200x800!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnewatlas-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F5e%2F99%2Fcbf1fe304e038cd95b7db22664b1%2F617bf3cf8226204b5427b7d0-ctnhero03.jpg)
Kawasaki
(https://cdn.visordown.com/article-images/7/75341.jpg)
Van Veen
(https://www.oldbikemag.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/OBA3-Rotaries-9.jpg)
Yamaha
(https://cdn.visordown.com/article-images/7/75350.jpg)
Norton
(https://www.oldbikemag.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/OBA3-Rotaries-14.jpg)
Fusion M1
(https://motorbikewriter.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Furion-M1-Hybrid-Sport-Bike-4.jpg)
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And this golden oldie...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_7aDjfUN-8
DIRTBIKE WITH ROTARY ENGINE (Hercules Wankel 502 GS)
The Hercules Wankel 502 GS was the first production dirtbike motorcycle using a Wankel motor. The first models used a two-stroke mix in the gasoline to lubricate the engine, which was later upgraded to an oil injector. About 1800 were sold under both Hercules and DKW badges between 1974 to 1976. In 1977 they sold all their production tooling to Norton. The exhaust port is on the right-hand one-third of the rotor chamber. The pipe goes up and over and exits on the left side of the bike.
Hercules built a few off-road Wankel-engined motocross models, for the ISDT and for their US importer Penton Motors. A few of these showed up in the USA, but they are very rare. The crankshaft was mounted nearly vertical, presumably to give a shorter wheelbase and better cooling, and while the engine might look like a traditional two-stroke, a close look reveals that it is a Wankel.
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The Hercules is a unusual design, more than the rotary engine itself it would be interestin to see how the gearbox is solved and where the bevel gears are located.
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Looks like the GS just rotated the crank 90 degrees vertically from the street machine for a shorter power train.
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:o... that might have made a sound like a permanently engaged reverse gear or an inbuilt turbocharger.
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Mazda seems to have beat the apex seal engineering into submission. I know the experimental aircraft folks use the Mazda car motors with a gear reduction to drive props. The RE5 Suzuki I test rode in the 1970's sounded like a Brit parallel twin at idle and a B17 when you wound it a bit. Fuel injection solved some of the mileage & emissions issues, altogether the rotary is a nice engine for a compact power source. At one time in the 80's folks were racing these, taking a Mazda car stock block, modifying the intake & exhaust, spinning them to 14,000 RPM and extracting close to 300 HP. A wide powerband & high RPM ceiling meant you didn't have to shift as often in the infield, a real plus. They held together pretty well for that kind of RPM.
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BRP's Can-Am bikes are back. This time electrified and will be introduced to the market sometime in 2024. I note that BRP is not asking for investors or crowd financing. Who knew you could introduce a new electric motorcycle without begging for investors ::) : https://thepack.news/newsflash-brp-pushes-forward-with-ev-plan-revealing-all-electric-can-am-motorcycles/
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Mine are still under development in Tahiti. Send another shoebox of unmarked bills, Rubles or Krugerrands to:
"Livin' the Life!" 69 Remittance Man Lane, Tahiti, French Polynesia.
Personal tours, a Maitai, a fishing rod & an introduction to the local nightlife (Lucille) offered to all who fly 28 hours or so down here to check on your investment progress.
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Here is a link to Motorcycle.com's take on the new Can-Am electric motorcycle prototypes. I like the idea of the enclosed rear drive, which could enclose a belt: https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model-preview/2024-can-am-origin-and-pulse-electric-prototypes-first-look.html
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Now we have the Ryvid Anthem. Not exactly a name that rolls off of your tongue. Here is a link to the article about this new electric motorcycle: https://electrek.co/2022/08/14/ryvid-anthem-launched-electric-motorcycle/
Frankly the styling kinds of turns me off. Plus, that 4.3 kWh battery pack is only going to take you the advertised 75 miles if you keep the speed down to 30 mph. Also, there doesn't seem to be any mention of how you can buy the bike. Is it on-line and have it delivered to your home in a box and then it is up to you to get it registered at the DMV, or will they be establishing a retail dealer network? So I will wait until I see one in person - if I ever do.
There certainly are a lot of startup companies designing and introducing new electric motorcycle models lately, but will they be around in a year or two? It is one thing designing a prototype and it is something else making a profit manufacturing and selling enough of them so that you can stay in business long enough to get established in a pretty small marketplace. My thought continues to be that there isn't much money in selling freeway-legal electric motorcycles until you see the Japanese brands entering the market.
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Here is something interesting: A small company in the Netherlands has come up with a kit to convert old BMW air-head boxers into electric motorcycles: https://thepack.news/lm-creations-from-the-netherlands-presents-their-bmw-ev-conversion-kit/
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Here is an interesting video clip with a company engineer discussing the new Ryvid Anthem electric motorcycle that provides information regarding its design: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG8Qrum5dRU
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The Italian manufacturer of electric motorcycles, Energica, seems to be doing well. If you happen to be in Italy next week you will want to check out this event: https://thepack.news/energica-announces-...gica-community/
For the U.S.:
Retail sales year-to-date are five times greater than the previous year.
New dealer agreements have expanded the U.S. network from 14 to 25 dealers, including nine new states: Colorado, Hawaii, New Jersey, New Mexico, Utah and Washington State.
Pre-sale deposits have been received for over two months’ worth of Experia (a new Energica ADV-style model) production.
Around the rest of the world:
Retail sales increase 104% year-to-date compared to the previous year with an additional two months’ production for the Experia spoken for by customer orders.
Expansion to 95 dealers, including intensification in existing key markets of France, Germany and the UK and entry into wholly new markets including Australia, Eastern Europe, Portugal, and even Pakistan and Nepal (?).
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Just for fun I calculated what the cost is to ride my Zero 45 miles, compared with going the same distance on my 70-mpg Royal Enfield. Here in California I am paying PG&E 42.5 cents per kWh during "non-peak" hours ( 49.5 kWh during "peak" hours). Right now my local gas station is selling 87 octane fuel for $5.38 per gallon. Running the calculations, traveling that 45 miles cost me $2.20 and the same distance on my RE would cost $3.46. But the way my electric rates keep increasing each month and with gas prices dropping, it might not be too long until the Zero and the Royal Enfield end up costing about the same per mile. ::) Riding the same distance on my 50-mpg BMW R1200RS, would set me back about $6.42. Of course that doesn't take in the periodic service costs for an ICE motorcycle, which would really up the per mile cost. BTW, insurance coverage for the Zero is more than the same coverage for the RS.
If I really wanted to save money I could ride my Honda Kick and Go. ;)
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Just for fun I calculated what the cost is to ride my Zero 45 miles, compared with going the same distance on my 70-mpg Royal Enfield. Here in California I am paying PG&E 42.5 cents per kWh during "non-peak" hours ( 49.5 kWh during "peak" hours). Right now my local gas station is selling 87 octane fuel for $5.38 per gallon. Running the calculations, traveling that 45 miles cost me $2.20 and the same distance on my RE would cost $3.46. But the way my electric rates keep increasing each month and with gas prices dropping, it might not be too long until the Zero and the Royal Enfield end up costing about the same per mile. ::) Riding the same distance on my 50-mpg BMW R1200RS, would set me back about $6.42. Of course that doesn't take in the periodic service costs for an ICE motorcycle, which would really up the per mile cost. BTW, insurance coverage for the Zero is more than the same coverage for the RS.
Seems like one would have to factor in some kind of amortization of the battery cost into the cost of operating the E-moto. IC engines wear out as well, perhaps at 50-80K miles for the RE? I have friends who are on their third engine (2nd rebuild) in their HD big twin. Living here in the land of salted roads, my vehicles (cars anyway) tend to die from rust, not from mileage or wear.
I'm seeing lots of Prius Hybrids on the 2nd hand market in need of a fresh battery. Rebuilt packs can be had for less than $1500, including installation and 3 year warranty.
How long do you think you will be able to run the Zero on the original set of batteries, and will the most relevant limiting factor be years, miles, or recharge cycles?
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Seems like one would have to factor in some kind of amortization of the battery cost into the cost of operating the E-moto. IC engines wear out as well, perhaps at 50-80K miles for the RE? I have friends who are on their third engine (2nd rebuild) in their HD big twin. Living here in the land of salted roads, my vehicles (cars anyway) tend to die from rust, not from mileage or wear.
I'm seeing lots of Prius Hybrids on the 2nd hand market in need of a fresh battery. Rebuilt packs can be had for less than $1500, including installation and 3 year warranty.
How long do you think you will be able to run the Zero on the original set of batteries, and will the most relevant limiting factor be years, miles, or recharge cycles?
When I bought my bike the Zero brochure claimed it would go for something like 380K miles before the battery capacity dropped to 80%. Zero no longer makes that claim for the newer models. My daughter has my old Zero S which I bought in January of 2014. So far there doesn't seem to be any degradation of its battery pack. My 2018 Zero also seems to running like it did when new. BTW, when it was 6 months old I ran the battery pack down to empty and was able to travel 146 miles, which included climbing and descending a couple of 1500 foot tall mountains, while traveling at 35 mph. On the way back home I traveled 50 miles at 55 mph, arriving home with the state of charge meter showing "00".
During that ride, that took me to Big Basin State Park, which was completely burned up three years ago, I ran across a group of riders testing out the new RE 650 twin as shown in picture 4019. Photos attached.
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If I really wanted to save money I could ride my Honda Kick and Go. ;)
If you ride a Zero or a BMW, any bike that makes it on the market exceeding a sales volume of a prototype are cost optimised to the last part and dollar.
If you were as penny contious with your riding as the manufacturing companies are with their products probably the Honda Kick and Go would be it, but max with 50cc. ;)
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If you ride a Zero or a BMW, any bike that makes it on the market exceeding a sales volume of a prototype are cost optimised to the last part and dollar.
As a design engineer, with 40 years of experience in bringing new products to market, and revising old products, I disagree. There are several influences that lead NEW products to be less than optimal, cost wise.
- Older, more costly components are often accommodated to use them up, or to avoid additional development cost.
- Production processes may not be refined, there may be extra labor in processes starting out.
- New designs are generally on the conservative side. Manufacturers can afford a few extra dollars in the product a lot more than they can afford field failures of new designs.
The development costs of a new product, are often the largest component of the overall cost, almost certainly so with something as complex as a motor vehicle. This gets amortized over projected future sales. If a certain volume is not sold, the product is a net loser.
It's a challenge to be designing in the sweet spot, new and exciting enough to attract buyers at a price that is profitable, but durable and reliable enough to satisfy those buyers. When they started wanting "planned obsolescence" and "spare parts income stream" as well, it got really difficult for the engineers. Now you have to make something that is good enough but not so good it doesn't crap out in a defined time period.
It's always easier to improve something than to start from a blank sheet. There's always room to take money out in a redesign, it will be the 2nd or 3rd, or 6th generation that are most cost effective. Small refinements of internal components, stuff that won't be noticed by the end user, can happen without notice, especially if a component is directly substitute-able.
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Well the BMW engine is continuously improved over decades, believing to be able to save up thousands on future redesigns doesn't seem plausible to me. When it comes to the Zero I always keep hearing the stuff of dropping prices like mobile phones, I don't see that materialising either. Firstly an electric motor is about the same age as an ICE improved over decades. Secondly compared to an ICE bike it makes a small portion of the total cost, so what remains to be seen is the battery, however IMHO expecting some dramatic price drops is unrealistic.
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"You actually speak like someone who never designed anything other than terrorised some designers in India maybe."
Hmmm...someone's channelling his inner Viczena today...did the meds get mixed up in the bathroom?
" believing to be able to save up thousands on future redesigns doesn't seem plausible to me "
" There's always room to take money out in a redesign " was what was said. Not thousands, just "money". You've never seen replacement parts become "just good enough"? The radiator in my Toyota has upper & lower plastic tanks that "age out" & leak before they clog up. Bracketry gets thinner. When in the wayback I saw Honda run cam bearings directly on the head metal it was obvious that the company wanted that engine to be perceived as disposable after its post-sale service life had run out. Saving a few dollars every unit and promoting future sales of new hardware is what A88 was saying, not thousands on every unit. I know you know that, so what's with the attack mode? Boredom? Entertainment?
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Well, just get in charge of a design and show us how it's done. I would definitely not work under anyone as qualified as you both chaps. Whyping the floor sure pays better.
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You don't work for anyone, and with good reason.
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You don't work for anyone, and with good reason.
As s tax payer I disagree. Anyway the room for savings is not large, even less with disrupted supply chains of today. If you don't have a robustness in your design and supply chain than the most optimal design is not worth much.
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There is "meets requirements" (barely...!) and CZ transmission tough. In the boardrooms they look at those CZ transmissions and think about all the coats of varnish their yachts missed out on because the transmissions outlasted the rest of the machine as well as the original riders. In a society where the (largely non-technical) owners possesses their product on average 3 years and pay the dealer to maintain the equipment, you can see why things skew towards minimally adequate; there's little incentive to concern yourself with the 2nd or 3rd owner. Car ads now extoll the electronic virtues of their product, a good sound system (stereo... ::)) has more air time than the engine, transmission or overall longevity, performance or handling.
Even in the PUB (Pre-Unit Bullet) universe Hitchcock's has to make hardened oil pump drive spindles and worm gears, forged pistons, roller big end, steel rod cranks, special high volume oil pumps, improved valve guides, etc. to make up for the cost cutting essential to Royal Enfield India's success. Unless you thrash the PUB the OEM stuff generally runs a long time. Indian owners know this and ride accordingly. Maybe the new liquid cooled 4-valve 450 is an upgraded step away from this, we'll see. There is a reason virtually every Honda over 300cc will likely run 100,000 miles with proper maintenance. Even the Japanese use ingenious coatings on top of lower cost metals to achieve cost savings over the life of a production run. That's the game to keep things cheap enough for the everyman. YOU could have bought a Svartpilen 701 for $10K-$12K but bought the $6K GT535 instead and with your own hands, knowledge & skill massaged it to be better. It's highly unlikely your GT535 weighs under 350 pounds, runs 115 MPH, makes 75 HP or has a 6-speed, but you have a satisfactory machine nevertheless and an extra $4K-$5K cash in your savings account.
Husqvarna cut fewer corners and produced a higher performing machine at a significantly higher cost. RE built the GT535 and "sold some units" to folks that really didn't care if their bike weighed 50 pounds more and made less than 50% of the Svartpilen's power and had "only" a 5-speed gearbox. Plenty good for their purposes.
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The Husqvarna is much more suitable for the avarage rider. Once it blows up it won't be worth the rebuild though. The GT of mine can be rebuilt as often as it blows up - by me. If necessary I can probably recreate most any component on it except the ECU, tach and what I can't recreate can be replaced by readily available eBay stuff.
It's a pass time, a hobby and comes close enough to the experience of riding a vintage single.
I don't have any desire to own anything like the Husquarna, simple as that. Than taking it to an authorized dealer for service, than to the inspection TÜV, than paying taxes and insurances. More anoyance than joy all this new Moto business is. Won't take long an you will need a reg. plate for your bicycle and pedestrians will wear helmets.
It already pissed me off as hell when I had to let the "unauthorized" swedish MOT officer to ride it in order to get it street legal. >:(
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Speaking of Zeros, check out this specification page for the 2017 Zero models. I bought my 2018 S in November 2017, so those specifications would also apply to the model that I have, which is the ZF13.0+Power Tank. They claim a battery life of 455,000 miles. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you and maybe some Florida seaside frontage, too. :P BTW, they don't make that claim with the new models. ;)
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If you ride a Zero or a BMW, any bike that makes it on the market exceeding a sales volume of a prototype are cost optimised to the last part and dollar.
If you were as penny contious with your riding as the manufacturing companies are with their products probably the Honda Kick and Go would be it, but max with 50cc. ;)
Attached are three photos of my Honda Kick and Go, which was sold by Honda dealers as a kid's scooter with a maximum weight limit of 130 pounds. It is powered by pressing down on the bar at the rear of the scooter, which operates a spring-loaded trolley system, that turns the one-way-only rear wheel. Braking is via a motorcycle-type handlebar lever that operates the rear friction brake. Steering is accomplished by leaning into the turn, which causes the two front wheels to pivot in the direction of lean. I have never seen anything like it since. Greta would love it. ;D
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How does it handle hills ?
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Looks like a scaled up model would make a great cottage industry niche product! The Honda was a 1974 machine, so copyright has expired by now. Using a "NuVinci" transmission in the ratchet area would painlessly enable a better speed range on the flats and aid greatly on hills. Add some recycled plastic fenders and a grocery box, solid tires, a fitness tracker interface and urban America is ripe for takeover. Never worry about a flat battery again. You say your teen wants to borrow the family car? Hand him the Petzl headlamp, point to the new 2023 hand crafted "Flying Super Board"(FSB) and say "Get after it, son." ::)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_Continuously_Variable_Transmission
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@ #766: I can probably recreate most any component on it except the ECU
If you can create a spark at the right time you are there. Lots of ways to do that electronically without the ECU, including even the hard way of creating a small mechanical crank-driven shaft to operate a set of points mounted in the cases like BSA & Triumph did for years. A 32mm - 36mm carb-of-choice and you are back on the road tearing it up. Does Germany have some machine age (Antique/Historical Vehicle) point at which they skip the emissions BS, where it wouldn't be required to have the OEM ECU?
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How does it handle hills ?
Not all that well. However, the lighter you are and the stronger your leg, the better it does climbing hills.
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Until it falls over. ;) Tesla is currently under the eye of the U.S. government for their large number of crashes while in Auto Pilot mode. The word is that all Teslas made since 2014 might be recalled to have the Pilot reprogrammed. :o
Our Canadian pal, FortNine has a comment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRdzIs4FJJg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRdzIs4FJJg)
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Attached are three photos of my Honda Kick and Go, which was sold by Honda dealers as a kid's scooter with a maximum weight limit of 130 pounds. It is powered by pressing down on the bar at the rear of the scooter, which operates a spring-loaded trolley system, that turns the one-way-only rear wheel. Braking is via a motorcycle-type handlebar lever that operates the rear friction brake. Steering is accomplished by leaning into the turn, which causes the two front wheels to pivot in the direction of lean. I have never seen anything like it since.
You must have missed the Pulse Xcellerator, which used the same mode of propulsion, but had the advantage, according to the commercial, of being "Loaded with Turbo Fastronomic Kick N Go Technology!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWEJH0kGvyc
http://theguidefortoys.com/Toy-Review/Kick-N-Go-Xcelerator-Scooter.htm
I recall riding the Kick N Go, and it seemed a bit precarious with the power foot unplanted.
I thought that the swing-wiggle, 3 wheeled articulated type, like the Fliker, might be more ergonomic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd1_-FziSk8
At the time I was interested in these vehicles, I was using dogs in harness for propulsion, and working through vehicle possibilities. Off road roller skates with pneumatic wheels lacked fore and aft stability and adequate braking. Kick scooters with 12" or larger wheels were very stable and had good brakes, but the handlebar would foul the harness leads, often leading to a tumble, and required both hands. I finally settled on the "Mountain Board", heavy-duty big-wheeled skateboards, that were intended for snowboarding in the summertime.
http://wackyboards.blogspot.com/2009/07/outback-mountainboard.html
These worked well. This design leaves at least one hand on the leads to control the dogs with a combination of voice commands and coordinated jerks on the leads.
I think that all these gadgets have been replaced by electric motors. Perhaps soon even the dogs.
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There is "meets requirements" (barely...!) and CZ transmission tough. In the boardrooms they look at those CZ transmissions and think about all the coats of varnish their yachts missed out on because the transmissions outlasted the rest of the machine as well as the original riders. In a society where the (largely non-technical) owners possesses their product on average 3 years and pay the dealer to maintain the equipment, you can see why things skew towards minimally adequate; there's little incentive to concern yourself with the 2nd or 3rd owner. Car ads now extoll the electronic virtues of their product, a good sound system (stereo... ::)) has more air time than the engine, transmission or overall longevity, performance or handling.
Even in the PUB (Pre-Unit Bullet) universe Hitchcock's has to make hardened oil pump drive spindles and worm gears, forged pistons, roller big end, steel rod cranks, special high volume oil pumps, improved valve guides, etc. to make up for the cost cutting essential to Royal Enfield India's success. Unless you thrash the PUB the OEM stuff generally runs a long time. Indian owners know this and ride accordingly. Maybe the new liquid cooled 4-valve 450 is an upgraded step away from this, we'll see. There is a reason virtually every Honda over 300cc will likely run 100,000 miles with proper maintenance. Even the Japanese use ingenious coatings on top of lower cost metals to achieve cost savings over the life of a production run. That's the game to keep things cheap enough for the everyman. YOU could have bought a Svartpilen 701 for $10K-$12K but bought the $6K GT535 instead and with your own hands, knowledge & skill massaged it to be better. It's highly unlikely your GT535 weighs under 350 pounds, runs 115 MPH, makes 75 HP or has a 6-speed, but you have a satisfactory machine nevertheless and an extra $4K-$5K cash in your savings account.
Husqvarna cut fewer corners and produced a higher performing machine at a significantly higher cost. RE built the GT535 and "sold some units" to folks that really didn't care if their bike weighed 50 pounds more and made less than 50% of the Svartpilen's power and had "only" a 5-speed gearbox. Plenty good for their purposes.
By the way my 535 will easily take it up with the 401 Vitpilen. Husqvarna owned by KTM, which is run by a guy called Goring....that's about all I need to know. Thank you very much.
Not unlikely the Austrians give you 10% off, you only need to triple vaxx yourself.
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Our Canadian pal, FortNine has a comment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRdzIs4FJJg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRdzIs4FJJg)
Which reminds me, I saw a report yesterday that BMW was testing radar reflectors to be installed on their new motorcycle models so that they would show up better when being painted by radar signals. Like speed cameras perhaps? :o Maybe it would help Teslas to spot the bike. But that would only work if they use radar and not Lidar. However, if FortNine is right and Tesla's don't use either but use cameras and an AI to make their braking decisions, then all I can say is maybe they should include a Five Hour Energy drink as an accessory to keep drivers awake while they are driving Teslas, along with not calling it
"Auto Pilot". But I guess considering how much Tesla charges for their self-driving system, owners must feel that they deserve a nap while driving after paying another $10K for the option. ::)
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There's no reason to pay money to become a public road "Crash Test Dummy" for DARPA tech. Leave this to the Black Budget boys and commercial trucking industry. Take a cab, Uber, Lyft, bus, tram, trolley or train if you don't want to drive around town. For what Tesla charges you could hire a chauffeur.
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@ #766: I can probably recreate most any component on it except the ECU
If you can create a spark at the right time you are there. Lots of ways to do that electronically without the ECU, including even the hard way of creating a small mechanical crank-driven shaft to operate a set of points mounted in the cases like BSA & Triumph did for years. A 32mm - 36mm carb-of-choice and you are back on the road tearing it up. Does Germany have some machine age (Antique/Historical Vehicle) point at which they skip the emissions BS, where it wouldn't be required to have the OEM ECU?
One thing I definitely don't care about is the spark plugs supply. Assuming the greens and other public transport promoters and enforcers get their way in order to reduce the CO2 emissions there will be a car wreckage standing on about every corner. Just take what you need. ;)
If you want to see how that looks like in real life I've got a holiday travel destination for you. It's not far from the place where they distribute the today fake Nobel prizes. ;D
Maybe the Light Tight Records went there to record their clip to this song.
https://youtu.be/DF6JhvbSMxs
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At least spark plugs have an indefinite shelf life, unlike rubber bits and electronics that rot over time regardless. Get a few boxes and stash them.
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...and here's something completely on track - mark the calendar!! :o ;D ::)
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/cfmoto-300gt-e-electric-police-motorcycle-coming-soon/
CFMoto 300GT-E Coming; Civilian version of Chinese electric police bike coming soon.
By Ben Purvis, September 5, 2022
The 300GT-E was first officially revealed in 2020 as CFMoto’s contender for a potentially lucrative tender for a zero-emissions police motorcycle. Given the sheer size of China’s police and security forces, contracts to supply them with bikes have the potential to amortize a new model’s R&D and tooling expenses before a single consumer version is sold. CFMoto has long been a favored supplier. The existing 650TR, based on the same platform as the 650NK we’re looking at here, is China’s mainstay police bike, and the KTM-engined 1250TR-G is following in its footsteps, so it’s understandable that the company is also looking to fill the demand for an electric interceptor.
The plus side for consumers is that once the Chinese police demand is satisfied, the same machines get customer-oriented spinoff models, and that’s what this machine appears to be.
Code-named CF10500D-B, the new model is near-identical to the original police version, which was listed under the code CF10500DJ-A, but stripped of the law enforcement kit. A dual seat with a passenger backrest replaces the single seat and radio-filled top box of the original version. The flashing lights mounted on the side crashbars are gone, as is the revolving light that was previously set on a telescoping mount at the rear. However, elements of the police version haven’t been completely erased. The silver-gray lower front fairing plastics, for instance, are still molded to fit around the police sirens of the original, but the horns themselves have been swapped for auxiliary light pods.
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In the future a segway should be more than what's needed for the polizei.
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When this nice lady pulls you over on her regulation Rénmín Jǐngchá 300GT-E, she'll beat you long time if you lip off to her... 8)
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In the future a segway should be more than what's needed for the polizei.
;D
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Which reminds me, I saw a report yesterday that BMW was testing radar reflectors to be installed on their new motorcycle models so that they would show up better when being painted by radar signals. Like speed cameras perhaps? :o Maybe it would help Teslas to spot the bike. But that would only work if they use radar and not Lidar. However, if FortNine is right and Tesla's don't use either but use cameras and an AI to make their braking decisions, then all I can say is maybe they should include a Five Hour Energy drink as an accessory to keep drivers awake while they are driving Teslas, along with not calling it
"Auto Pilot". But I guess considering how much Tesla charges for their self-driving system, owners must feel that they deserve a nap while driving after paying another $10K for the option. ::)
For cars and truck which DO use radar; These sailboat reflectors wiil show you as a 40 sq FT object for up to 4 miles away. About 50 bucks.
https://www.amazon.com/MARINE-CITY-Reflector-Sailboats-Reflective/dp/B084CYRDKK/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=radar+reflector+for+sailboat&qid=1662505298&sr=8-6 (https://www.amazon.com/MARINE-CITY-Reflector-Sailboats-Reflective/dp/B084CYRDKK/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=radar+reflector+for+sailboat&qid=1662505298&sr=8-6)
We'll have to figure out the camera systems. But have you noticed that most new cars have those luminous pint jobs?
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@ #781: Maybe a Segway and a "glowrod", you never know when you might have to respond to a "Murder/Death/Kill" event, Citizen...
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When this nice lady pulls you over on her regulation Rénmín Jǐngchá 300GT-E, she'll beat you long time if you lip off to her... 8)
Nice, but really not my type. Religious, militant and career hungry are the tree things to avoid like holy water.
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Militant or Military ?
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Militant or Military ?
You've got to wonder how many single men in China go and buy daily baby dipers just to achieve a positive social credit score.
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Honda Announces Electric Motorcycle Plans Carbon neutrality by 2040
https://www.motorcycle.com/features/honda-announces-electric-motorcycle-plans.html
Dennis Chung September 13, 2022 0
Honda announced plans for a carbon neutral future and a goal of introducing 10 or more electric motorcycles by 2025 including three mid-range models and a youth model for North America.Until now, Honda has been very tentative when it comes to electrification, with its main focus being on developing swappable battery packs for electric two-wheelers. Its Japanese counterparts Yamaha and Kawasaki have outlined their own plans, while in North America, Harley-Davidson is days away from finalizing its LiveWire spin-off. Still, we’ve been waiting for the world’s largest motorcycle manufacturer to show its hand.We now know what Honda has in the works, following a press briefing with Managing Officer Yoshishige Nomura and Director and Executive Vice President and Representative Executive Officer Kohei Takeuchi. The executives discussed Honda’s plan to be carbon neutral by 2040 through the advance of electric mobility and cleaner internal combustion engines.
By 2025, Honda plans to launch 10 electric motorcycles worldwide. This includes a mix of scooters (what Honda calls “Commuter EVs”), mopeds and electric bicycles (“Commuter EMs and EBs”), and “large-size” electric motorcycles (“Fun EVs”).
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I just saw that article, too. I didn't get too excited. I note that Honda says that they will still be selling 20 million ICE motorcycles, scooters and mopeds in 2030. That even might include California, which hasn't come up with a plan to eliminate the sale of new gas-powered motorcycles and require only electric-powered ones yet, as they have done for automobiles. I sure hope that Russia doesn't buy up all of the chips on the market by then so that they can refurbish their military equipment. ::)
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One thing about established motorcycle manufacturers is that they are finding it a lot easier to design and build a kid's EV than a freeway-legal model. Here is the latest off-road kids bike: https://thepack.news/gasgas-introduces-another-electric-mini-motocrosser-to-their-line-up-the-mc-e-3/
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Hardware like this can recharge your Tesla and Zero gratis, as well as providing back-up home power during an outage and shade all day. Once you have significant stored electrical energy, PG&E even can work it so you get paid for "grid ancillary services" such as dynamic local voltage & VAR support.
https://boxpower.io/solar-ev-charging-off-grid/
Solar Powered EV Charging Stations
With the rising adoption of electric vehicles (EVs), having sustainable and resilient charging solutions in every community will be critical. Getting sufficient power for EV charging often requires expensive, time-consuming utility upgrades or line extension, especially in rural and remote areas. BoxPower containerized microgrids offer an alternative: reliable, solar-powered EV charging anywhere — no grid necessary.
https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2019/10/13/pg-e-blackouts-spur-sales-of-boxpower-solar.html#:~:text=BoxPower's%20container%2Dsized%20solar%20units,typical%20home%2C%20according%20to%20BoxPower.
PG&E blackouts spur sales of BoxPower solar/battery units
BoxPower's container-sized solar units range from $50,000 to $100,000. The new Mini-Box units run from $20,000 to $40,000. The boxes have solar panels to generate daytime electricity and they also have integrated battery storage. The Mini-Box can power a typical home, according to BoxPower.
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In California, you could put the BoxPower shipping boxes in your backyard, rent them out as "accessory dwelling units" and receive a pat on the back from the state for providing new housing to keep another family, who doesn't want to move to another state where taxes and living costs are much cheaper, from becoming homeless.
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That BoxPower Seatrain/Connex holding up 1,000 square feet of PV array is likely already occupied by 1KV worth of batteries and either a grid-tie inverter or stand-alone isochronous inverter. Unlikely you'd want a few Guatamalan tots playing hide & seek in there. Your garage or basement is where the "free servants" are supposed to live, yes?
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/wisconsin-couple-who-kept-modern-day-slave-19-years-deported-philippinesMILWAUKEE – Two husband-and-wife doctors from the Milwaukee-area, who kept a Filipina domestic servant in their home as a virtual slave for nearly 20 years, were deported this week by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO). The investigation leading to their arrest and conviction was conducted by ICE's Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) and partner law enforcement agencies.
Jefferson Calimlim Sr., 67, and his wife Elnora, 66, both former medical doctors in Milwaukee, were deported June 12 from the United States under ICE escort, arriving in Manila June 14.
The Calimlims were convicted May 26, 2006 in the Eastern District of Wisconsin for forcing a woman to work under conditions of servitude for nearly two decades in their Brookfield home. They were sentenced to six years in federal prison on human trafficking charges, and ordered to pay more than $900,000 in restitution to the victim.
On Dec. 7, 2010, a federal immigration judge in Chicago ordered the Calimlims removed to the Philippines after they complete their prison sentences. On June 1, 2012, the Calimlims were released from the Bureau of Prisons and turned over to ICE to be deported.
During a federal jury trial in Milwaukee, it was determined that the Calimlims recruited and brought the victim from the Philippines to work for them in 1985 when she was 19 years old. In September 2004, HSI special agents, with assistance from the FBI and the Brookfield police, rescued the then 38-year-old victim from the Calimlim's residence after receiving a tip that the doctors were keeping a maid in their basement as an indentured servant. The victim was found hiding behind the door in a basement closet.
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If you somehow managed to orbit at a closer distance to the sun maybe you may need a conciderably smaller solar box.
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...and a cooler of Negra Modelo... ;D
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...and a cooler of Negra Modelo... ;D
Guinness might do.
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Considering the effectiveness of the solar panels in Sweden though, I wonder though why there is an issue with power supply in California. Around here they're starting to work almost as lubricated. If anything is highly polished than I would say the solar power supply. ;)
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" why there is an issue with power supply in California "
https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2021-total-system-electric-generation#:~:text=Electricity%20imports%20account%20for%20approximately,state%20or%20province%20of%20origin.
http://www.caiso.com/Documents/WheelingAccessRatesEffectiveMay01_2019_UpdatedMay13_2019.pdf
1) Of the +50 Gigawatts of summer peak load, about 20 of these very pricey Gigawatts are mostly wheeled in from out of state.
HV wheeling fees are about $12/MWHr. 20 GW = 20,000 MW, x12 = $240,000 per hour, x 12 (hours/day summer) x 150 ("summer days") is around $532,000,000 in BoD & CEO Bonus monies. Mo money, mo money, mo money...
2) The Central Generator model was chosen for solar because it automatically leads to more Capital Money (@ 10.5% RoR...) Spending. YOU get a guaranteed 10.5% RoR, right? Rural distribution had to be upgraded at the transmission level to accommodate solar farms, something that isn't needed using rooftop Commercial & Residential solar. Those transmission resources already exist. They also guarantee that the PV collection area is more diffuse, leading to less "cloud shading events".
3) No Utility grade energy storage has been constructed, minimizing PV & winds energy production usefulness. Think of it like running a Hydro plant without having water storage. All of the pricey battery systems so far amount to about a 30 minute run at peak system load, which they can't do anyway. The other 12 hours of a summer peak day are mostly filled with NatGas power.
So the main issue with California power is that too many palms are being greased, and those same hands write the bulk of the rules they work under. You do that, right? Decide the laws you'd like to obey? The rate of pay you'd like? Your working conditions? Get paid to break/depreciate your bike and then buy a new one with Capital Money instead of maintaining what you have? It's GOOD to be the King...
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BTW, last week's news was that PG&E spent a lot of money on a battery storage facility consisting of 5 large Tesla Power Walls in a facility that can supply 3 MW (it might be much more, I only heard the news report one time) of nighttime electricity. The facility located near Monterey, CA, was put in operation this July. Last week one of the Tesla batteries caught on fire (no one knows why - or if they do they are not talking). The resulting fire was apparently pretty impressive as the fire department spent over 24 hours spraying water on the battery pack trying to keep the fire under control. The news report said that you can't put lithium-ion fires out, all you can do is to keep them cool to slow the combustion until they finally run out of juice. There went a lot of water in a very dry area. :( I hope the utility got a warranty with those Power Walls. ::)
My daughter plans to install solar panels on her home with a storage battery for when the sun goes down or PG&E's power goes off. After she heard that news, she decided to go with a more stable battery system that uses LiFePo4 chemistry, instead of a solar company that is using Tesla batteries for storage.
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Years back I pointed out to both SCE & PG&E that instead of battery BS they could spend the same amounts on a share in the Magnum Development CAES project and get back 12x to 20x the storage capacity. Capacity that won't spontaneously catch on fire I may add. Crickets was all I got back because the Capital Spend short term money RoR is the real motivation for a private utility, not energy storage for the ratepayer.
The Magnum CAES has developed & mutated over time. I noticed that after I pointed out to M.D. that instead of plain compressed air they could store electrolysed H2 in their developed salt caverns instead, run it thru their planned expander turbine generators, then thru a combustion turbine generator/HRSG and double (or more) their energy storage capacity, a couple years later their literature started talking about that aspect. So some progress: "If an idiot told you the sun would rise tomorrow, the sun would nevertheless rise".
Burbank Water & Power-Utah Compressed Air Energy Storage System
https://www.power-technology.com/marketdata/burbank-water-power-utah-compressed-air-energy-storage-system-us/
World’s Largest Renewable Energy Storage Project Announced in Utah
https://magnumdev.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/NEWS-RELEASE-MHPS-Magnum-Partnership-05-30-19-FINAL.pdf
https://www.hartenergy.com/news/mitsubishi-hitachi-magnum-launch-one-gigawatt-clean-energy-storage-utah-180442
The tech is already there, there is nothing to research, just combining hardware and processes that are known and proven in a slightly different manner. The only thing lacking is Corporate America's desire & ability to do the job they are actually tasked to do instead of merely acting like a profit extraction tool for the well-heeled folks at the top.
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Rooftop solar is definitely becoming a thing here, even though the previous conservative government gained a lot of redneck votes by opposing it and promoting "clean coal" instead.
The reason most owner occupied stand alone housing is gradually moving to rooftop solar and often a battery (despite government opposition ) is rooftop solar makes financial sense for the home owner if you live in the suburbs, in a regional town or on acres. The batteries of course are a lot less viable financially, but people seem to like them anyway, probably for the sense of security and independence from the grid that it gives. especially with more and more load shedding and blackouts likely in the future. (it is debatable whether this sense of security is real or not, given the short duration they will supply power for in emergency)
The two areas where rooftop solar is not making much of an impact are strata apartment blocks and rental premises.
TLDR - in Australia rooftop solar for a standalone home owner makes financial sense. On the other hand, financially, a household battery currently does not, but people like them anyway for the warm fuzzy secure feeling they give.
Australia has set renewable energy records for the fifth year in a row with more than one in four households now generating power on their roofs. Renewable energy delivered nearly a third (32.2 per cent) of the electricity in the National Electricity Market in 2021, jumping up to 35.8 per cent in the final quarter of the year.
https://www.minister.industry.gov.au/ministers/taylor/media-releases/australia-leads-world-rooftop-solar-share-renewables-jumps-35#:~:text=Australia%20leads%20world%20in%20rooftop,of%20Industry%2C%20Science%20and%20Resources
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Energy storage is the key. PV & wind without it are guaranteed to be marginalized. H2 is the low hanging fruit, high energy density and ready access everywhere, you don't need a Texas or Saudi Arabia. All you need is either a salt dome or existing oil well and you have access to utility grade energy storage. Modern turnkey 60% efficiency HRSG generating plants can be spec'd for pure H2, it's a well developed tech. One of these atop a storage formation reconverts the pressurized H2 back to usable electricity. You'd just need commercial electrolyzers to fill with and access to wind, ocean current or solar produced power. Transmission lines make the energy interchange possible & economical - no hauling & handling of fuel. An offshore well or dome can be serviced with undersea cables, that tech has been available for 100 years. Norway & Sweden routinely run hundreds of megawatts 100 - 200 miles under the sea.
Co-burning at up to 15% requires only natural gas tech level hardware and stretches the natgas supply. 15% of the existing natgas distribution & storage system anywhere is definitely utility grade. Fuel BTU level boosted and CO2 emissions reduced in one fell swoop.
Rooftop solar puts load and source in the same spot so there is little need for transmission infrastructure upgrades. Central Generator model PV guarantees Capital Spend profits for the Utilities from (the now) necessary transmission infrastructure upgrades . Producing and storing power within your state/country reduces wheeling fees and makes you less vulnerable to embargo. Folks that benefit directly from wheeling fees will fight you, and folks that want to embargo you to extort favors won't like it much either.
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Here is a interesting article about a fellow who placed a $5,000 deposit on a Sondors Metacycle and then backed out of the deal. He explains why he gave up on the Metacycle: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-i-put-down-5000-on-a-sondors-electric-motorcycle-and-then-backed-out
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My daughter plans to install solar panels on her home with a storage battery for when the sun goes down or PG&E's power goes off. After she heard that news, she decided to go with a more stable battery system that uses LiFePo4 chemistry, instead of a solar company that is using Tesla batteries for storage.
No wonder Texas is not very fond of gaining this kind of issues too. ;)
Im waiting for the NXT fxck to come around and tell me that what I do is waste of money.
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https://youtu.be/rH5LRceYVkg
Here our electric trucking future is coming.... buy a Russian ZiL as long as you can.
How they plan to keep the "batteries" happy, by feeding them Insekt burgers I suppose.
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Here's your new Ford Lightning! :o 8)
TEARING APART my new Ford Lightning electric truck made my mechanic WANT TO RETIRE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntdXS97LpwQ
Here Is Why the Ford F-150 Lightning Sucks at Road Trips & It's Not What You're Thinking!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wybZ6K_yV8
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Maybe it's all that autism that's present at the Nordic hemisphere.
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Here's your new Ford Lightning! :o 8)
TEARING APART my new Ford Lightning electric truck made my mechanic WANT TO RETIRE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntdXS97LpwQ
Here Is Why the Ford F-150 Lightning Sucks at Road Trips & It's Not What You're Thinking!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wybZ6K_yV8
Cool mechanic. cannot work with aircon and cooling systems. High voltage systems are somewhere else. maybe he should really retire, buy a new Royal Enfield and convert it to carb.
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Maybe he should, I sure wouldn't work for anyone who bought something like that.
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Cool mechanic. cannot work with aircon and cooling systems. High voltage systems are somewhere else. maybe he should really retire, buy a new Royal Enfield and convert it to carb.
Sounds like a plan, but better if it is an old UCE 500 and not a new 350. ;D
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Meanwhile the Swedes have entered the electric motorcycle market with the RGNT No 1 Classic SE and No 1 Scrambler SE models. These bikes are said to be successfully built, homologated, and ready to silence city streets, coastal boulevards, backroads and beaches globally all over the world. Founded in 2019 in Sweden, they aim high. Wildly ambitious, yet underpinned by a strong vision with in-depth knowhow. They honor the great design achievements of the past. RGNT has a passion for iconic motorcycle design that drives them to put high-end, timeless quality left, right and center in all their designs. The RGNT company is a fast-growing startup from Kungsbacka, Sweden. What else could you expect from Sweden? We will let derottone advise us about that ;) https://thepack.news/newsflash-rgnt-motorcycles-announces-participation-at-intermot-in-cologne/
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Nothing wrong with it, just get one if you like it. ;)
Everytime I see the massive hubmotor though I wonder what exactly is wrong with a large Fontana drum brake.
Ain't a wonder the Norwegian welfare fund is decimating rapidly. I'm getting Corona just from looking at it.
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At slow speeds unsprung weight is less of a problem. At speed it interferes with the wheel staying connected to the ground. Lighter is always better if speed is the object, but for just general doofing around it's much less important. MPL makes a LOT of cool hardware, but $$$.
http://www.manx.co.uk/products/ignition/ignition.html
http://www.manx.co.uk/products/hubs/f250f.html
"The ultimate European drum brake. Developed by Daniel Fontana for the works 500's of the late '60's. Used on early works Trident racers, and TT marshal's bikes. Our hubs are faithful replicas of the originals with the dramatic interrupted finning and central ventilation ducts.
Specifications
Brake lining area: 250mm dia x 30mm wide x 2 sides
Weight: Magnesium: 9.4 kg ; Aluminium: 11.5 kg
Spindle Bearings: 17mm
Colour: Magnesium: Black Chromate ; Aluminium: Self Colour
Total width across brake plates: 127mm
Wheel rim: 40 spoke holes, use 10 gauge spokes
Options: Magnesium Brake Shoes - Saves 400g
Combination of Alloy Hub / Magnesium Brake Plates P.O.A"
If you have to ask, you couldn't afford it anyway... :o ;D ;D ;D
https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/the-sexiest-brakes-in-history.536189/page-3
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Last time I looked they've costed less than an iPhone. A cool project won't finish over night, one brake a year and in no time you've got your dream bike. ;)
https://youtu.be/uErKI0zWgjg
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Here's a real piece of art! ;D
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Here's a real piece of art! ;D
That would definitely survive in my garage longer than the regent.
... maybe I should change the paint on my GT into royal blue, to keep the awful regents away, like Bluetooth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Bluetooth
Won't take long some dumb ars from Danmark may come over to claim royalty on Bluetooth usage.
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No royalty for customers but the companies selling bluetooth devices do need to pay an annual subscription to SIG.
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At slow speeds unsprung weight is less of a problem. At speed it interferes with the wheel staying connected to the ground. Lighter is always better if speed is the object, but for just general doofing around it's much less important. MPL makes a LOT of cool hardware, but $$$.
http://www.manx.co.uk/products/ignition/ignition.html
http://www.manx.co.uk/products/hubs/f250f.html
"The ultimate European drum brake. Developed by Daniel Fontana for the works 500's of the late '60's. Used on early works Trident racers, and TT marshal's bikes. Our hubs are faithful replicas of the originals with the dramatic interrupted finning and central ventilation ducts.
Specifications
Brake lining area: 250mm dia x 30mm wide x 2 sides
Weight: Magnesium: 9.4 kg ; Aluminium: 11.5 kg
Spindle Bearings: 17mm
Colour: Magnesium: Black Chromate ; Aluminium: Self Colour
Total width across brake plates: 127mm
Wheel rim: 40 spoke holes, use 10 gauge spokes
Options: Magnesium Brake Shoes - Saves 400g
Combination of Alloy Hub / Magnesium Brake Plates P.O.A"
If you have to ask, you couldn't afford it anyway... :o ;D ;D ;D
https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/the-sexiest-brakes-in-history.536189/page-3
Not the same but still can be found: Suzuki 4LS GT750/550 Front Brake Hub. Sub-$500 before current inflation. (and they fit between most front forks)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/9f/73/dd9f73e5b16f4b3d7d9f630edc3536ba.jpg)
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No royalty for customers but the companies selling bluetooth devices do need to pay an annual subscription to SIG.
I'm not really sure this is much better than a Swedish drug dealer gang "supposedly" led by Bluetooth, Attila, Hannibal..... ;). ...the sacrificial lambs for the nordic commie fucks delivering the required motivation for uncooperative mechanics for example in ther authistic retard led companies.
Very common names up there.
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Soooo ....
How about an E-Bike with only one wheel ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uv3oGSgdHw
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With a tractor seat and a handle it would be a fine machine.
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Soooo ....
How about an E-Bike with only one wheel ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uv3oGSgdHw
I wonder if its ABS can be turned off for riding off-road? ;)
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GlennF @ 821: That is some impressive tech. That you can have a self balancing 40 MPH mild-trail capable unicycle with near 30 mile range is wild. I guess when you pare away the "extra bits" like a second wheel, seat & chassis the endurance goes way up. Thanks for posting!
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Rolling back to hydrogen for a moment, here is an interesting 10-minute long video by an astronomer discussing new advances in producing hydrogen at less cost than is currently used to produce the element for powering vehicles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUE5kEq43EQ
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Here is a little e-bike for you. All it needs is a couple of pedals to keep it moving when the juice runs out: http://brutusmotorcycle.com/brutusV9.html
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Here is a 3-minute long video worth of the latest Zero news, including that they have received additional financing in the amount of $107 million from Polaris: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXhrQKYRvLQ
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https://youtu.be/0y-RsGj0_7I
How about a Optimus instead?
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The H-D spinoff LiveWire company began trading on the NYSE. It doesn't look like anything I would want to invest in: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/big-week-for-livewire-as-del-mar-reservations-reopen-and-the-company-goes-public
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The H-D spinoff LiveWire company began trading on the NYSE. It doesn't look like anything I would want to invest in: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/big-week-for-livewire-as-del-mar-reservations-reopen-and-the-company-goes-public
It's not looking bad, the price is the price is relatively however into which market it's supposed to grow with the current outlook of conflicts everywhere. :o I can think only of California.
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I saw my first Zero DSR/X today parked across from Alice's Restaurant. The color combination is OK, but I think it should be flashier to draw attention to this new model. The color combination makes it look like a BMW. LOL Photos attached.
My friends and I talked to the owner of the bike for a few minutes. He works at the Zero factory. He mentioned that Zero is ramping up their staff, after cut backs due to the Covid pandemic, and are on their way to over 350 employees. He said that they will be manufacturing more motorcycles next year than they have during the last couple of years. According to a recent YouTube video, Zero has manufactured a little over 20K bikes since 2009.
We also asked him about the $107 million Polaris investment and he said that Zero would be designing and manufacturing the power trains for their recreational vehicles. So that sounds like a solid line of work to keep the company busy and maybe developing a new motor and battery packs, which many EV enthusiasts think they will need to stay competitive in the future.
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FortNine reviews the Sondors Metacycle. What he missed is that Sondors has raised the price of the bike from $5,000 to $6,500:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVjrt-JCKLg&t=2s
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It looks like Kawasaki will be marketing an ICE 300cc-class electric motorcycle making something around 15 hp one of these days. Here is the news published by Motorcycle.com: https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model-preview/kawasaki-ev-prototype-revealed-at-intermot.html
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I didn't find a thread about E-Semi Trucks but...
Billionaire founder of electric truck firm Nikola is found GUILTY of fraud...
"Among the most damning allegations against Milton was a dramatic promotional video depicting the Nikola One driving through the desert.
Prosecutors, however, showed evidence that the futuristic truck was anything but, operating with doors that were taped shut and batteries removed.
They said the car was towed uphill and then allowed to roll down as the company filmed it to pretend like it was running on its hydrogen-fuel."
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/10/14/22/33018820-9839711-The_company_started_to_unravel_in_September_when_a_report_from_s-a-6_1665783757608.jpg)
https://walbrofuelpumps.com/contact/ (https://walbrofuelpumps.com/contact/)
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Well, that is one way to get an H2-powered truck to work - and cheaply, too. ;D
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Carlill v Carbolic Smoke Ball Company [1892] EWCA Civ 1 strikes again :D
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https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMFMD8Pue/
::)
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https://www.greenmatters.com/environmental-leaders/sweden-ministry-of-the-environment
WOW ...it looks like it might be possible to visit Sweden soon with out risking beeing eaten alive. Too little too late.... ::)
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That's going to be interesting how he plans to wash free the Twitter staff...."only followed orders?"
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https://youtube.com/shorts/lzRHTale4uo?feature=share
Finally I know what I might have been doing wrong all my life. "optimising things that should not exist"... ;D ;D ;D .... I'm all for making them unexist. ;D
...the only question is what should exist ? ? ?
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...deoptimized things? Sounds MENSA-isk to me! ::)
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Check out the rear wheel drive on this Italian Verge TS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tps6_vtCRV8
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Check out the rear wheel drive on this Italian Verge TS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tps6_vtCRV8
That's interesting, I'm sooo glad it exists. ;D
...they sound Finnish(ed)?
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I ordered a Verge. Lets seee how it goes.
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Designing around fast charging is an essential and a first, Viczena's mentioned that many times. There are 3 very thick orange cables going to the rear wheel, possibly indicating that the wheel/motor may be a "simple" high frequency 3-Phase AC motor. High frequency keeps inductor weight down, which is why aircraft used 400 Hz. (or more) alternators. VFD tech is a well trod path. The motor-in-wheel adds unsprung weight, but from a practical aspect that may not much matter. The "donut hole" is a nice answer to motor cooling. I think I saw a +300 KM range spec?
Anyway, I look forward to Viczena's ride report.
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https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/remember-hubless-verge-ts-electric-motorcycle-almost/
https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/innovative-hubless-verge-ts-can-hit-180kmh-showcases-industry-first-tech
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The hubless rear wheel sure is an attention grabber. The tire change on the rear will probably need an high voltage certified mechanic. ;) ...for everyone else it might be a pain in the arse. From the esthetics they ought to have solved the hubbless design on the front wheel too..
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https://youtu.be/BN-C5N60u_M
Gretas friends at work....
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https://youtu.be/BN-C5N60u_M
Gretas friends at work....
Disgusting. Hopefully these punks get their time in jail. But that wouldnt change anything for them. They get their food, clothing, money from the state instead from their parents. And again they dont have to work for anything.
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Disgusting. Hopefully these punks get their time in jail. But that wouldnt change anything for them. They get their food, clothing, money from the state instead from their parents. And again they dont have to work for anything.
Sending them to India begging on the roads would be an much more effective education lesson....
... unfortunately in the "west" they're under the protection law of the endangered species.
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I have been in India 2 weeks ago. All the beggars are gone. They really change into an industrial state. Maybe Liberia...
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The choice of soup is odd.
Maybe they are secretly members of an underground activist Andy Warhol cult for a particular breed of ascetic anarchists, making some sort of statement about how 19thC art has lost it's relevance and all meaning is encapsulated Derrida style in the experiences of the soup thrower ??? Either that or it was an attempt to combine modern participatory art with some form of Dada-esq revivalism.
Though, all in all, as an artistic statement tis not very original really. Pete Townsend's shattered guitar collection (he actually smashed the very first guitar, on stage, at the end of a show, because a faulty repair that had seriously pissed him off - guitar smashing in and of itself, evolved into a form of performance art much later) and the famous shredding (and simultaneous quadrupling in value) of Banksy's "Girl with a Balloon" in front of an audience of multi millionaires, both had a much more profound impact and had more artistic integrity.
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Everybody who ever tried to create something and knows the pain and the effort finds nothing "artistic" in destroying things.
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I have been in India 2 weeks ago. All the beggars are gone. They really change into an industrial state. Maybe Liberia...
...that sounds like a rather dramatic change, somehow I can't imagine that being possible. If India is well advised aspiring to become like Liberia, I doubt it. ::)
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@852...I've never understood the artistic integrity in smashing guitars. :D
However I find controlled demolitions somewhat artistic, takes a lot of engineering too I'm sure.
https://youtu.be/AM6p46NWSuA
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Those entitled and Greta-programmed girls who threw soup on the painting should really have been using a better type of soup in such a high-end museum. Something like Campbell's chicken noodle soup.
What would be a good punishment for them? Perhaps picking up cigarette butts, gum, injection needles and then power washing the sidewalks around the better parts of town would be an appropriate punishment for being jerks and then having the gall to film and publish their juvenile display. I wonder how the authorities treated them? At a minimum they, or better yet their parents, should pay for restoring the painting and adjacent wall, as well as being fined for their actions. >:(
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Check out the rear wheel drive on this Italian Verge TS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tps6_vtCRV8
More my idea of what an electric motorcycle should be! I like the Zen / Beast power modes and the two sets of pegs to accommodate them. The charge time also helps me like this bike.
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@ # 856: +1 - too much Facebook/internet time, not enough to do. Even monkeys like Facebook, for much the same reasons.
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Here is a fellow who plans to YouTube-it around the World on a Zero electric motorcycle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1bxPV_4M4c
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He should pack a very long extension cord.
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The Sweds rutinely take road trips from Sweden to Italy in their Teslas. ;)
They however plan it decades in advance to the last charging station, pie stop, air preasure, rainfall and budget. Deviation of plan could end catastrophically, causing an increas in global earth temperature.
Not sure if Teslas have a spare tire on bord, maybe not. Couple of "air in the bottle with some sauce in it" sure must be on board.
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Well there is always foldable wind turbines to recharge if you run flat ...
https://www.cnet.com/culture/wind-powered-motorcycle-for-a-mad-max-world/
(https://i1.wp.com/www.motoreagles.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/strangeworld-wind-turbine.jpg)
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Add the turbine to the machine. As long as you are on a broad reach to the wind, you make more power than you use. Flettner Rotorships proved this in 1900. Add a light to the top of the rotor mast and it doubles as a safety device.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F6RgBztddQ
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Here is a quick look at the latest electric motorcycle and scooter models from the 2022 EICMA: https://thepack.news/news/
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Here is a quick look at the latest electric motorcycle and scooter models from the 2022 EICMA: https://thepack.news/news/
I like the Zero adventure bike, the real adventure starts when your battery goes flat in the mountains above Moose Jaw Montana!
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Here is a quick look at the latest electric motorcycle and scooter models from the 2022 EICMA: https://thepack.news/news/
I love them. They look great, on the picture. ;D
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@ #864:Nice find!
A little "golf-cartish", but for $1600 or so...?
https://www.greenmasters.world/
It wouldn't take Einstein to add a 350W - 450W panel & charge controller on top for shade/range extension. Even 20-25 MPH will get you to Piggly-Wiggly a couple times weekly for groceries.
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@ #864:Nice find!
A little "golf-cartish", but for $1600 or so...?
https://www.greenmasters.world/
It wouldn't take Einstein to add a 350W - 450W panel & charge controller on top for shade/range extension. Even 20-25 MPH will get you to Piggly-Wiggly a couple times weekly for groceries.
Big business, should do as business vehicles for our politicos too.
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Starting to look like GM may need to start producing these (Kübelwagen) after the next election. MTG would look a goggle-eyed treat standing up in one of these, wearing either a black SS uniform or just in Sturmabteilung brown... ??? God help us all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_K%C3%BCbelwagen
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I think that crowd might want some big Merc's too.
(http://)
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nah ... something more like this ...
(https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i84tvtM8sxmM/v0/1200x-1.jpg)
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Honda has jumped into the swappable battery game in Tokyo and may partner with Hero to set up the same system in Indian cities. Here is the story: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/honda-is-officially-in-the-swappable-battery-game-for-electric-motorcycles
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GF @ #872: Now THAT's funny! I can just see it now, the God-Emperor/Pope Orange Julius II in a goal-leaf festooned, sealed boxmobile with the entire GOP retinue single-filing 10 paces behind paying their obeisance. Maybe a bit further back will be the red-cloak-clad "Handmaids Brigade", all preggers of course. After them will come the obligatory Supreme Commander Day military parade, missiles & howitzers aglitter. Perhaps trailing up far behind at the end will be the shambling, half-starved mob of Political Prisoners/Enemies of the State, closely guarded by volunteer Patriotic groups such as the Proud Boys & Oath Keepers. Ahhhhh...the way the future was.... :o ::)
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What? Cadillac One won't do the job anymore?
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The "Beast" doesn't come with an exposed seat that Kevin McCarthy can function like a hood ornament on. Also your anointed visage is hard to see whilst inside the Beast.
But I expect you could just strap McCarthy across the hood like a deer and hang 80 foot tall self portraits along the "Path of Glory".
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I assume you would prefer the Swedish down to earth, don't look up mentality and let Greta do the job? Works out great, I can tell you.
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O no ese - local volunteer sycophants showing up & looking to enforce new GOP Party diktats had best be able to withstand & dodge about 3800 ft/pounds of energy at 2600 FPS. Hiding behind your shiny diesel pickup in body armor isn't really an option there. No "Blue UN tarp in a muddy camp with one water spigot & a trench latrine" retirement home for me.
And it's not Greta here, it's pure "Oklahoma City 1921 Massacre" avarice writ large. These a-holes simply want the laws to apply ONLY to others. They'll be auctioning off public land and reallocating the possessions of "non-believers/infidels" to their own good selves in a very Christian manner. Well, in a manner interpreted to be Christian by the local Political Officers & Morality Police. Surprisingly most resources will end up in the hands of the well connected, who knew...except maybe anyone that's read some history. By the time the "great unwashed" figger it out, THEY'LL mostly be in the same category as the "infidels" they were rallied against. Haven't we seen this movie before, like maybe x 1000 times?
Apparently the GOP aligning with Vlad and then being willingly led by self-deluding politicos is supposed to be a survival strategy against actual tactically smart people? All I see coming from that merger is the USA being used by Russia as a buffer to protect their Eastern Pacific assets against incursions by China. God help the Ukrainians. I hope you speak some Russian, soon to be the official language of NATO.
At least the New Age Evangelical Faux-Christians will get to re-enact their favorite endtimes voodoo scenario...Dragon v. Bear aka China v. Russia. They're big on symbolism if not so much critical thinking & logic. Personally getting to bring about the end-times, whatta rush...something to tell your grandkids about...wait, no grandkids after the End Times?...say whaaat?
https://www.bibleref.com/Revelation/13/Revelation-13-2.html
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Yes well, biblically only 144,000 people are chosen and will get to heaven after the end times. twelve thousand from each of the twelve tribes.
It is unclear what will happen to the rest. Purgatory does not exist, it was a medieval invention based on pagan beliefs, nor does hell which is also pagan (though it is mentioned briefly in the Kabbalah which is definitively NOT a core sacred text for evangelicals). The supposed great battle between forces of light and dark (pretty much imported straight out of pre-Christian Gnosticism) is also pagan as well as almost all of our Xmas (mid winter/saturnalia) and Easter traditions (spring equinox/pagan goddess Eostre).
Potentially all but 144,000 of us just cease to exist. I am pretty sure there are more than 144,000 Evangelicals though so it is not clear who gets the day pass for the rapture and who does not.
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https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-threatens-companies-pausing-twitter-ads-2022-11
...this will be also interesting, well I already shame thermonuclearly, nevertheless I wouldn't send a cent to that man.
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@ GF: "it is not clear who gets the day pass for the rapture and who does not" Well put.
Years back in Tucson in the late 1970s a "Rapture" event was declared. One of the local wags had illustrated silk-screened T-shirts made up saying "I Survived the Rapture" with various previous rapture dates crossed out, a large arm descending from the sky grasping some unfortunate by the skivvies and drawing him upwards into the clouds. The local "Rapturees" were grilled mercilessly, we kept asking if we could go over to their places on the "special night" and clean out their garages. Hey - THEY would no longer be needing those well-stocked Proto roll-aways and Ducati projects, right?
144,000 / 8,000,000,000 = 0.000018, about 0.002% survival rate. Sounds more like the KT event! ;D
I'm not too worried about a shooting war, but it does concern me that Xi Jinping is spending a great deal of political capital getting the Chinese GenPop up to speed on a biowarfare scenario. In such a scenario the Trumpeteers will die like flies as vaccines and masks are apparently believed to be more lethal than airborn Ebola, Machupo or even Hanta Virus. The problem with a precipitous decline in population (60% - 80%) in a technical society is that there simply aren't enough technical people left to keep the hardware & energy supply functioning. When the heating/cooling, sanitation & running water stop, things get bad fast. Russia is doing that now in Ukraine the hard way. Even a "White Virus" asymptomatic sterility inducing STD would be highly disruptive. Remember the Zika panic?
Getting back to your 144K: My old (85-90 years old then) ex-railroad buddy Charley Burke loved to argue with the Adventists. When they'd tell him that only 144K are making the cut, he'd ask - "Well, how many Adventists are there NOW?" They'd respond with some number in the millions and he'd fire back "So WHY are you trying to recruit me?" :o ::)
In the words of Car Talks Tom & Ray Magliozzi, many folks are "Unencumbered by the thought process".
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https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/kawasaki-electric-and-hybrid-prototypes-unveiled/
A few noticeable details include a battery case that hangs down at an angle ahead of the motor. It looks like the top of the “fuel tank” can either swing open or be removed, hinting that there may be swappable battery packs underneath it. Kawasaki, alongside Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha, have already hammered out a design specification for a common 48-volt swappable battery for electric bikes, opening the door to a network of battery-swap stations that would eliminate the need for fast chargers and the expensive and bulky on-bike electronics that they require.
Kawasaki is expected to have two 125cc-equivalent electric bikes on the market in the U.S. in 2023, one a faired sports model, the other a naked “Z” like the prototype seen here. Whether they turn out to be derived from this prototype or the earlier design with the multi-speed transmission remains unknown at this stage, but this bike would likely be less expensive and lighter weight than the earlier version, making it more tempting for urban riders who are likely to be the target customers.
As always with new technology, the big question hanging over both the electric and hybrid Kawasaki projects is whether buyers will be persuaded by the combination of price, performance, and practicality that the machines can offer, and whether they can stack up against the more conventional competition already in the market. Kawasaki appears to be taking a low-cost approach, and with high fuel prices pushing a growing number of people towards electric transport, these might be coming at just the right time.
>>>>>>>>>
https://global.yamaha-motor.com/design_technology/design/concept/pes1/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://jalopnik.com/honda-s-electric-motorcycle-timeline-seems-impossible-1849536314
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/suzuki-develops-its-first-electric-scooter/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-news/royal-enfield-electric-vehicles-development/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://ridermagazine.com/2022/07/12/triumph-te-1-electric-motorcycle-prototype-unveiled/
The Triumph TE-1 electric motorcycle prototype produces 177 hp and 80 lb-ft of torque, weighs 485 lb, and accelerates from 0-60 mph in 3.6 seconds. (Claimed recharge time is 20 minutes)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Honda enters the city e-scooter market: https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model-preview/2023-honda-em1-e-electric-scooter-first-look.html
And so does MV: https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model-preview/2023-mv-agusta-ampelio-first-look.html
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https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2022/08/08/2025-can-am-motorcycles-first-look-electric-powered/
2025 Electric-Powered Can-Am Motorcycles First Look
Yes, you read it right—2025. Can-Am is giving us a first look at its 2025 motorcycle lineup. These are the first motorcycles from Can-Am since 1987, and will be battery-powered. As expected, The 2025 Can-Am Origin and 2025 Can-Am Pulse are prototypes, and we will not see finished models of these electric motorcycles until mid-2024.
Both 2025 Can-Am motorcycles are powered by a Rotax E-Power motor. There are no details regarding either bike’s battery capacity, output, or range. All other details—weight, dimensions, geometry—will not be hinted at for another year. BRP, the parent company of Rotax and Can-Am, is saving the information for the concern’s 50th anniversary in August 2023. We do note the single-sided swingarm, and Can-Am is mum about the final drive—it’s definitely not a chain.
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/rgnt-electric/
E-bike’s throttle goes both ways: Clever tech makes new Swedish retro extra-easy to ride
Twisting the grip one way to go faster and closing it to slow down might sound obvious, but Swedish firm RGNT’s ‘One Throttle Drive’ or OTD for short takes that a step further by dialling in regen braking as you shut the throttle.
Don’t panic, though, there is also a conventional lever-operated brake fitted.
The system has a few advantages and it’s not unheard of in cars – Nissan have used a one-pedal ‘e-pedal’ system in the Leaf for years. The idea is that by using regenerative braking to slow down you’re more efficient, which is key in electric vehicles with limited range.
The system works via a hub-mounted motor that drives the firm’s SE and SEL models, which have been developed over the last couple of years, to a maximum speed of 75mph with a range of 87 miles. The rear-hub motor produces peak power of 21kW with an additional 20kW available as Boost in either of the two modes – Power and Range.
The non-removable battery is a 9.5KwH Li-ion unit which can be charged from any 110/220v outlet with a full charge taking six hours, or a partial charge from 20% to 80% from around three hours.
The SE is available in either the Classic, café racer styling or a Scrambler version and both are started with keyless ignition. Weighing in at 161kg, the models share the same dimensions with an 810mm seat height.
Prices for the SE models start at €13,495 (approx. £11,750) for the Classic and €14,495 (approx. £12,610) for the Scrambler. The SEL (limited) editions retail for €1000 more than the SE models.
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Police tests reveal unwanted side effects of excess regenerative braking ...
(https://riders.drivemag.com/wp-content/uploads/default/0001/29/7632a85701535b2c42ecbdbef162ba84.jpg)
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https://www.volcon.com/grunt
TECHNICAL SPECS
MAX SPEED; 40 MPH
WEIGHT; 330 LBS
SEAT HEIGHT; 32 INCHES
RANGE; UP TO 75 MILES*
LOAD CAPACITY; 400 LBS
FRONT SUSPENSION; INVERTED FORK
REAR SUSPENSION; COIL SPRING & HYDRAULIC
FRONT BRAKE; TWO-PISTON HYDRAULIC DISC
REAR BRAKE; SINGLE-PISTON HYDRAULIC DISC
BATTERY; 2.0KWH WITH OPTIONAL ADDITIONAL 2.0KWH
TIME TO CHARGE; APPROXIMATELY 2.5 HR CHARGE
LIGHTING; LED
WARRANTY; ONE-YEAR UNLIMITED, TWO-YEARS BATTERY
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...words fail me...
KATALIS EV - ANIME INSPIRED ELECTRIC MINIBIKE
Zooz Bikes projects an MSRP of $2499 when bikes are ready to ship. They are only shipping to mainland United States addresses for this production run, but shipping is free.
https://www.katalis.co/
POWER
1000 Watts
BATTERY
Lithium 48V
CONTROLLER
48-72 Volt
RANGE
70 Km
TOP SPEED
80 Km/h
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Kymco Supernex and Revonex highway-capable electric motorcycle concepts. Hopefully the side fairing design will not be introduced on any production versions: https://thepack.news/kymco-launches-supernex-and-revonex-with-an-unconventional-aesthetic-architecture/
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Here's an educated paper on vortex shedding and drag reduction, I "think" it says that the hexagon pattern reduces both a bit...? ??? But maybe it's just a marketing exercise. '''Move the hardware off the floor" is the primary motivation, otherwise you go broke. A Kymco K-Pipe with a Daytona or Zongshen 190/212 near 20HP 5 speed shoehorned into it would be a hoot!
https://research-repository.griffith.edu.au/bitstream/handle/10072/382955/Karampour159216.pdf;jsessionid=688DD9709F1B6BCB81C0BA1FD978C8BD?sequence=1
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Here's an educated paper on vortex shedding and drag reduction, I "think" it says that the hexagon pattern reduces both a bit...? ??? But maybe it's just a marketing exercise. '''Move the hardware off the floor" is the primary motivation, otherwise you go broke. A Kymco K-Pipe with a Daytona or Zongshen 190/212 near 20HP 5 speed shoehorned into it would be a hoot!
https://research-repository.griffith.edu.au/bitstream/handle/10072/382955/Karampour159216.pdf;jsessionid=688DD9709F1B6BCB81C0BA1FD978C8BD?sequence=1
"The results suggest that within the studied Reynolds number range i.e. Re <200, the
drag coefficient of the textured geometry is almost equal to that of the circular cylinder
while the lift coefficient of textured geometry is substantially smaller than that of circular,
face-oriented and corner-oriented hexagon pipes. "
What that means in practice - no idea.
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Here's an educated paper on vortex shedding and drag reduction, I "think" it says that the hexagon pattern reduces both a bit...? ??? But maybe it's just a marketing exercise. '''Move the hardware off the floor" is the primary motivation, otherwise you go broke. A Kymco K-Pipe with a Daytona or Zongshen 190/212 near 20HP 5 speed shoehorned into it would be a hoot!
https://research-repository.griffith.edu.au/bitstream/handle/10072/382955/Karampour159216.pdf;jsessionid=688DD9709F1B6BCB81C0BA1FD978C8BD?sequence=1
That is a interesting paper. Except for the "facing" orientations, it follows closely to a golf ball flow behavior.
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Of course we could just adapt this system to motorcycle use:
(https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/catenary_siemens1.jpg)
(https://assets.new.siemens.com/siemens/assets/api/uuid:3c394a69-5cf6-486f-bf81-21d4c20a926b/operation:download/IM2021070591MO.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3P_S7pL7Yg
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Passing could be problematic... ;D
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(http://)
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Of course we could just adapt this system to motorcycle use:
(https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/catenary_siemens1.jpg)
(https://assets.new.siemens.com/siemens/assets/api/uuid:3c394a69-5cf6-486f-bf81-21d4c20a926b/operation:download/IM2021070591MO.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3P_S7pL7Yg
At least the wires that are saving the environment are nicely organised as compared to India. ;)
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Must be a DC electrical system. ::)
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Must be a DC electrical system. ::)
Apparently it is, a one way road. >:(
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(http://)
I did a "sophisticated" ;) version using a electric Minn Kota trolling motor. It had 4 speeds forward and one reverse.
I used an adult push scooter and a car battery. Worked pretty well but went back to the boat.
Can't find a photo just now as this was in the days of film cameras.
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https://ubco.com/pages/2x2-electric-bike
dual 1 KW motors
30 MPH max speed, 20 MPH max efficiency
75 mile range
6 hours to full charge
330 lbs max total load weight
quiet, under 75dB
swappable 3.1 KW Li battery
Hydraulic & regenerative brakes operate together.
Active regenerative braking (brake activated) with independent front and rear brake control.
Passive regenerative braking (off throttle).
DOT approved hydraulic brakes.
Step through frame made from 7027 alloy.
Front and rear racks standard.
All wheel drive.
2 x 1 KW motors.
Brushless DC air cooled.
High durability planetary geared system.
Fully splined gear interfaces.
Sealed bearings.
WITH 2.1KWH BATTERY PACK - $6,999 USD (Sport)
WITH 2.1KWH BATTERY PACK - $5,999 USD (Work/ORV)
WITH 3.1KWH BATTERY PACK - $7,999 USD (Sport)
WITH 3.1KWH BATTERY PACK - $6,999 USD (Work/ORV)
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^ There's one for sale on my local Craig's List.
https://santafe.craigslist.org/mcy/7549233933.html
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If this was the "norm" I would never got into motorcycles for sure.
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$5,500 to be the first kid on your block? Cheap at twice the price! ::)
Or you could get a used Trail 90/110 for $500 - $2,000 and call it good with 4x the power & range.
A nice effort by Ubco though. It'd be a great camp bike to accompany your $250,000 motorhome in the Catskills KOA...
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$5,500 to be the first kid on your block? Cheap at twice the price! ::)
Or you could get a used Trail 90/110 for $500 - $2,000 and call it good with 4x the power & range.
A nice effort by Ubco though. It'd be a great camp bike to accompany your $250,000 motorhome in the Catskills KOA...
Yeah, If I ever took the unlikely step to have a around town electric motorcycle ...
I'd convert something like a Honda SL100. (I've been itching to make a DIY Lipo battery) ;)
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The state of electric motorcycles is where the state for electric cars was 15 years ago: Electric cars are just boring slow eggs on wheels.
A real E-Bike will blow your mind. 1000Nm drag, 400km range, fastcharge in 5 minutes is what will change the market.
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The state of electric motorcycles is where the state for electric cars was 15 years ago: Electric cars are just boring slow eggs on wheels.
A real E-Bike will blow your mind. 1000Nm drag, 400km range, fastcharge in 5 minutes is what will change the market.
Will you become a certified autist and can retire by test-riding one?
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A nice effort by Ubco though. It'd be a great camp bike to accompany your $250,000 motorhome in the Catskills KOA...
;D ;D
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I'd convert something like a Honda SL100. (I've been itching to make a DIY Lipo battery) ;)
Those old Honda single bits cost actual money here - SL100 rollers are $800 - $1500. There are lots of older 500 - 750 sportbike rollers about, maybe $100 - $250 for an old KZ650 Kawasaki roller. Disc brakes, loop cradle frame, lots of load capacity, maybe comes with cast wheels too. Lots of battery seems to be the key to happiness. It'd be easy to stuff $2K - $3K into a power pack alone.
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I'd convert something like a Honda SL100. (I've been itching to make a DIY Lipo battery) ;)
Those old Honda single bits cost actual money here - SL100 rollers are $800 - $1500. There are lots of older 500 - 750 sportbike rollers about, maybe $100 - $250 for an old KZ650 Kawasaki roller. Disc brakes, loop cradle frame, lots of load capacity, maybe comes with cast wheels too. Lots of battery seems to be the key to happiness. It'd be easy to stuff $2K - $3K into a power pack alone.
OMG !!!
I just took a look ...
" Bakersfield
1971 Honda SL100
21 hours ago·$5,300"
Mind you it looked like a nice one but phew. Back in the day we didn't even bother to bury them. ;)
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There are some news concerning the verge motorcycle I ordered: The manufacturing has begun.
There are now 2 variants, the TS (less HP and slower charge) and the TS Pro (more HP and fastcharge). The TS Pro is the version that was offered for pre-production ordering. The TS Pro now costs 29.900 plus tax, but I will get it for the preorder price of 24.990. Derlivery date is 5/23.
And they got a new Homepage:
https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/us/
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Will these be able to use the common Tesla recharge stations, or will you need to install special equipment at your home?
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The EU version will have the CCS2 chargers. So I can use my Tesla homecharger. I do not know when and how Tesla completely opens their chargers to other vehicles.
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Something like this?
https://evhub.shop/charging-274/tesla-us-ccs1-ccs2-400a-p70
Looks like you've got all the bases covered, looking forward to the ride report! - ACR -
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More like that
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Eric Buell's new electric bicycle/motorcycle company is back in the news again with a nice prototype and still trolling for investor dollars, as well as customer deposits. Just don't hold your breath for one to show up at your local dealer - because there aren't any. Maybe in a few years if they can find enough money to finance their operation and that is not going to be easy in this economic turn-down: https://thepack.news/eric-buell-is-back-with-electric-motorbike-fllow/
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https://www.reuters.com/business/cop/flour-thrown-warhol-car-milan-climate-change-protest-2022-11-18/
This seems to be the trend those days, although in this case the Warhole art did more damage to the Italian designed car than the Italian protesters, so it could be an act of revenge. ;)
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I have a lot of respect for Eric Buell's ability to design and build motorcycles. I wish him success with this project, in the past he has hitched his wagon to entities that were not entirely supportive or nurturing to his endeavors..
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@ 915: Singapore has a nice solution to stupid - public caning. It's very educational and you are a lot smarter afterward.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore#:~:text=They%20include%20the%20following%3A,total%20number%20of%20offences%20committed.
After the caning, a shop vac, sponge, a bucket of soapy water, some towels to dry the car off with, some clean rags and a can of carnauba wax are in order. The Singapore cop can stand by as "quality control" until the job is done right.
Marching about with signs and yelling loud is demonstrating. Destruction of someone's personal property is vandalism. It's not that hard a concept.
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Singapore, isnt it the place where you get fined 50$ or so for spitting a chewing gum on the street? I'm surprised their streets are not plastered full with them.
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Motorbikes have come on large amounts over the most recent five years. Right now, Cruiser computer based intelligence is a high competitor for the following huge development for modern bikes. Self-learning innovation is as of now a tremendous piece of our lives. Ventures, for example, medical care and online business extraordinarily benefit from this innovation - and the cruiser business is no special case.
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Motorbikes have come on large amounts over the most recent five years. Right now, Cruiser computer based intelligence is a high competitor for the following huge development for modern bikes. Self-learning innovation is as of now a tremendous piece of our lives. Ventures, for example, medical care and online business extraordinarily benefit from this innovation - and the cruiser business is no special case.
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Motorbikes have come on large amounts over the most recent five years. Right now, Cruiser computer based intelligence is a high competitor for the following huge development for modern bikes. Self-learning innovation is as of now a tremendous piece of our lives. Ventures, for example, medical care and online business extraordinarily benefit from this innovation - and the cruiser business is no special case.
Are you sure about that?
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Here is a very retro electric scooter design, although I am not too sure about the looks of the large instrument pod sitting on top of the steering stem. https://thepack.news/designer-piotr-krzyczkowski-hits-the-e-mobility-market-with-his-projects/
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Here is a good use for unwanted mobility scooters ...
https://ianselectricengines.co.uk/
(https://ianselectricengines.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Ians-Electric-Engines-Limited-Sentinel-Matador-in-carnival.jpg)
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Now this is the way to design a battery system that can be easily removed and then transported to a different location for both storage and charging. The battery pack not only has an integrated 600 watt charger and a 55 watt heater but the scooter also has its own integrated fold-out handcart to move the entire battery pack around. Check out the last four pictures in this new-startup scooter article: https://thepack.news/silence-is-the-first-brand-for-new-belgian-startup-vr-mobility/
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BOB bike. Who needs suspension when you have tires like this?: https://thepack.news/new-bob-best-of-bikes-experience-center-in-belgium/
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BOB bike. Who needs suspension when you have tires like this?: https://thepack.news/new-bob-best-of-bikes-experience-center-in-belgium/
That actually doesn't look that bad and the battery is well hidden. There might be some practical use to it in the cities. If it succeeds may depend on the operator who provides the rental service. Privately I would definitely not want one, an awful lot of other things you can buy for that amount of cash.
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BOB bike. Who needs suspension when you have tires like this?: https://thepack.news/new-bob-best-of-bikes-experience-center-in-belgium/
How about a big engine in a bicycle frame? Useless but interesting.
https://youtu.be/Xjje9xhkusE
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I found this video interesting regarding the Brammo Empulse/Victory TT motorcycle, which includes information regarding the brand's history. Attached are a couple of photos of when their first model was being sold at Best Buy and a photo of a prototype that was displayed at Scuderia West in San Francisco, which is now a Royal Enfield dealer. In 2010 I pre-ordered an Empulse like the one in the photo, but when it didn't arrive after two years, I gave up and bought a 2012 Zero instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pnyQ6z_Nfk
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Zyp6jX0HM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Zyp6jX0HM
The only issue is a chain is much more efficient, so you'll need a battery which you charge of the grid if you like it or not to compensate for the energy conversion losses and additional weight.
There sure is a market for it....
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https://www.topspeed.com/davincis-new-electric-motorcycle-will-fill-your-heart-with-lust-and-desire/
Davinci's New Electric Motorcycle Will Fill Your Heart With Lust and Desire
At its heart, the DC Classic employs a beefy 17.7kWh battery coupled with a 100kW motor that pumps out 627 pound-feet. Thanks to this combination, the electric bike has naught to 60 mph time of around three seconds while promising a claimed range of 249 miles (NEDC verified). Oh, and in case you max it out, the battery can be fast charged to 100 percent in just 30 minutes!
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https://www.topspeed.com/davincis-new-electric-motorcycle-will-fill-your-heart-with-lust-and-desire/
Davinci's New Electric Motorcycle Will Fill Your Heart With Lust and Desire
At its heart, the DC Classic employs a beefy 17.7kWh battery coupled with a 100kW motor that pumps out 627 pound-feet. Thanks to this combination, the electric bike has naught to 60 mph time of around three seconds while promising a claimed range of 249 miles (NEDC verified). Oh, and in case you max it out, the battery can be fast charged to 100 percent in just 30 minutes!
It sure fills the hearts of the electric trolls already...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(2022_film)
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Take it from me a 17.7 kWh battery will not take that bike 245 miles. My Zero has a 16.6 kWh battery and the best distance I ever got out of it was 145 miles, keeping the speeds between 25 and 55 mph. When I reached home my battery SOC display was reading "00". And there is no way that a battery that small will charge from 0 to 100% in only 30 minutes without degrading the life of the battery severely. Many times manufacturers will quote relatively short charge times from 20% to 80% SOC, because the first 20% and the last 20% when recharging a battery using a fast DC charger takes much longer as the charge rate slows down significantly when the battery charge is very low or almost full. Plus, there is the matter of finding a DC fast charging station that will actually put out the kind of power needed to meet the manufacturer's charging rate claims.
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https://thedriven.io/2022/12/02/its-real-tesla-finally-delivers-semi-electric-truck-that-drives-like-a-model-3/
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https://thedriven.io/2022/12/02/its-real-tesla-finally-delivers-semi-electric-truck-that-drives-like-a-model-3/
I am not sure that I believe everything Musk claims about anything. ::) Any word about the actual retail cost (without some government agency picking up part of the tab)? Good luck finding a MW charging station if you are on the road and you run out of juice, which could happen during a haul over the Serra Nevada or Rocky Mountains during the winter, when actual battery capacity shrinks substantially. On my Zero, the range drops about 20% compared to an ambient temperature of 80 degrees and when riding below 40 degrees F. I bet it is a lot worse if you are stuck in the queue going over I-80 during the winter when the temperature is well below freezing. :o
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Davinci's New Electric Motorcycle Will Fill Your Heart With Lust and Desire
No, it won't. They want me to break the 10th Commandment for THAT ugly great lump?
A.
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https://thedriven.io/2022/12/02/its-real-tesla-finally-delivers-semi-electric-truck-that-drives-like-a-model-3/
They sell almost exclusively fake Coca-Cola in about every supermarket around. If MacDonald and Burgerking switched to it, they could finally improve the quality of their food without increasing the cost.
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Here is an article about what appears to be a hand-built small electric motorcycle with aspirations to ramp up production to 5K units a year. The LAND Moto District. Fast enough to take on the freeway for a few miles if you have the largest battery they offer. A pretty nice looking bike, but the price is kind of steep: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/land-moto-district-first-ride-and-factory-tour
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Formerly Cleveland Cycle Works. Nice frames. As they used to build nice machinery using Chinese motors, these should be good machines as well.
" Easily swappable batteries are a key feature of the LAND electric bikes. Says founder Scott Colosimo, "I personally don't want to go sit in a parking lot and charge my bike."
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/cleveland-cyclewerks-for-sale-as-found-pivots-to-land-electric-motorcycles
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https://cscmotorcycles.com/rx1e-electric-motorcycle-red/
RX1E Electric Motorcycle ( Availability Spring 2023 )
CSC RX1E Specifications
Motor: Liquid-cooled permanent-magnet
Peak Horsepower: 24 hp (18kW)
Torque: 61.2 lb-ft (83Nm)
Battery: Lithium-ion 96-volt, 64Ah
Battery Capacity: 6.16 kWh
Charger: 110-volt
Input Current: 15A
Range: 112 miles based on New European Driving Cycle (NEDC)
Frame: Tubular steel
Rake & Trail: 27°, 74mm
Wheelbase: 55.5 inches (1400mm)
Front Suspension: 37mm inverted telescopic fork, 4.7 inches travel, adjustable for rebound damping
Rear Suspension: Monoshock, 4.3 inches travel, adjustable spring preload and rebound damping
Front Brake: Two-piston caliper, 265mm disc
Rear Brake: Single-piston caliper, 240mm disc
Wheels: 17-inch aluminum
Tires: 100/80-17 front; 120/80-17 rear
Length: 82.2 inches (2090mm)
Width: 34.0 inches (865mm)
Height: 47.4 inches (1205mm)
Seat Height: 30.9 inches (780mm)
Ground Clearance: 6.0 inches (150mm)
Curb Weight: 436.5 pounds (198kg); 469 lb with luggage and crash bars
Max Load: 331 lb (150kg)
Top Speed: 75+ mph
Colors: Candy blue metallic, Candy red metallic, Charcoal gray metallic
Price: $8,495 (plus $410 dealer prep, documentation, and road-testing fees)
Availability: Spring 2023
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I am not sure that I believe everything Musk claims about anything. ::) Any word about the actual retail cost (without some government agency picking up part of the tab)? Good luck finding a MW charging station if you are on the road and you run out of juice, which could happen during a haul over the Serra Nevada or Rocky Mountains during the winter, when actual battery capacity shrinks substantially. On my Zero, the range drops about 20% compared to an ambient temperature of 80 degrees and when riding below 40 degrees F. I bet it is a lot worse if you are stuck in the queue going over I-80 during the winter when the temperature is well below freezing. :o
Ithink your Zero is not really comparable to a Tesla Semi
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I'm in no way interested in defending Musk, however every measurement be it fuel consumption or range of an BEV vehicle is undertaken under some kind of boundary conditions which are defined by the regulators and tuned by the manufacturer. Accusing the company of lying or cheating is grotesque since the real world conditions are different for every vehicle owner and truck operator. If you turn the whole world into the test "rig" which the company used to establish the provided figures than I'm pretty sure you come down with the same results.
In the meanwhile let's enjoy them trying to turn the world into that exact place. ;)
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https://cscmotorcycles.com/rx1e-electric-motorcycle-red/
RX1E Electric Motorcycle ( Availability Spring 2023 )
Absent a big lottery win, I doubt I'll ever get around to owning a electric motorcycle. BUT, I love the notion of having a reverse ;).
https://cscmotorcycles.com/buy-a-bike/electric-scooters/rx1e-electric-motorcycle/ (https://cscmotorcycles.com/buy-a-bike/electric-scooters/rx1e-electric-motorcycle/)
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I would be wary of the "New European Driving Cycle (NEDC)". Getting 112 miles out of a 6 kWh battery pack is not going to happen unless you are either traveling at 20 mph on level ground with no wind, or that distance is actually 112 km, and even then you would still be traveling at city speeds.
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I would be wary of the "New European Driving Cycle (NEDC)". Getting 112 miles out of a 6 kWh battery pack is not going to happen unless you are either traveling at 20 mph on level ground with no wind, or that distance is actually 112 km, and even then you would still be traveling at city speeds.
The only minor problem is that if you tell them that it's impossible they'll shut your company down. So who gives a fu#k. ;)
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@ # 943: "I love the notion of having a reverse "
Not just for Goldwings anymore... ;D
Pointed downhill into a parking slot, sometimes tiptoes just aren't enough on a 500 pound machine! ;D
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@ # 943: "I love the notion of having a reverse "
Not just for Goldwings anymore... ;D
Pointed downhill into a parking slot, sometimes tiptoes just aren't enough on a 500 pound machine! ;D
I won't argue with that. it took Zero something like 12 years to offer a reverse on their latest models. Should be easy to do on an electric motorcycle but they just didn't bother with offering a reverse (which they call Park Mode) until this year.
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I won't argue with that. it took Zero something like 12 years to offer a reverse on their latest models. Should be easy to do on an electric motorcycle but they just didn't bother with offering a reverse (which they call Park Mode) until this year.
Sincere question: Can you use it to get the bike onto the centerstand ????
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If you had a 2WD machine that'd work, but as the rear wheel normally elevates up off the ground in the center-standing process...?
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If you had a 2WD machine that'd work, but as the rear wheel normally elevates up off the ground in the center-standing process...?
Understand / don't disagree.
Yet, when you are sitting on the bike and "rocking" it off the centerstand ... no mechanical parts or dimensions are different.
Remember back in time when we would mount the centerstand while sitting on the bike? It was the same(ish) motion as rowing a boat. In that case the front wheel went up and the rear rolled backwards.
I know that when taking my 1300 OFF the stand and the bike is even slightly facing uphill I use a tick of 1st gear to get it up and over the center point. Then a easy squeez on the front brake and everything is calm and gentle. I also know that I never take a jumbo bike off the stand while standing beside it.
_ I just have this deep suspicion that a E-reverse would be very helpful. I've actually sent CSC an email asking if they have tried it. Hoping for an answer if they aren't scared off by today's world. I guess I could troll one of the biker lunch spots and find a couple of spotters and a human reverse motor and try it on my 650. huh. ;)
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My most embarrassing situation with a centre stand was trying to rock a bike off the centre stand that was parked on a left/right slope. It rocked forward fine and then ever so gradually tipped over to the right :D
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Just offhand I can't think of any electric motorcycle that I am familiar with that has a center stand. I know that Zero's don't. :(
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Just offhand I can't think of any electric motorcycle that I am familiar with that has a center stand. I know that Zero's don't. :(
The CSC RX1C 2023 does. In fact in their promo video at 4:04 min they make a big deal about it. Maybe that's because nobody else has one, like you say.
https://cscmotorcycles.com/buy-a-bike/electric-scooters/rx1e-electric-motorcycle/ (https://cscmotorcycles.com/buy-a-bike/electric-scooters/rx1e-electric-motorcycle/)
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" Remember back in time when we would mount the centerstand while sitting on the bike? "
Both my KS500 & ES350 still work flawlessly this way. I kick start them on the centerstand whilst standing off to the right side, then step aboard, rock forward and then "on a Firey Horse With the Speed of Light, a Cloud of Dust and a Hearty Heigh-Yo Silver!" I'm off to the races. It is however helpful & less embarrassing to "break free" the clutch plates first... :o 8) These bikes both run the 3.50 x 19 front and 4.00x19 rear, so centerstand lift is only about 1/2" - 3/4".
I have a project 550 Nighthawk that for some reason has at least 2 1/2" of air under the rear wheel when on the centerstand; that'll strain your 1/2 & 1/2.
The Bullet allows for rear wheel changes by having a rotatable rear fender substructure, maybe that's why they don't elevate the rear as far off of the ground as modern hardware. Having to have a friend help you tilt over your 500 pound bike simply to remove the rear wheel does seem a bit ham-fisted, but that's been the drill I've always seen on "modern" hardware. I've even resorted to digging a pit below the rear wheel on occasion. After that, the Bullet system of allowing easy wheel removal access and retaining the greasy bits on the swingarm was a real treat, just like it was designed by someone that actually had to ride it every day.
But none of the aforementioned helps if you stuff it nose first downhill into a fortuitous parking space - it's grunt & strain time then, much to the amusement of any bystanders.
https://www.goldwingmisfits.co.uk/goldwing-1500-history/
After a false start the previous year, the long awaited GL1500 finally hit the buying public for the 1988 model year. This of course was a major new model and totally redesigned from the ground up. The GL1500 now had a silky smooth flat six cylinder engine of 1520cc and a reverse gear, real news for touring motorcycles in those days. This was the first mass produced six-cylinder motorcycle to have a reverse gear and was more in line with the intentions of Honda's 1470cc six -cylinder prototype M1 of 1972. The M1 had been an engineering exercise to see what could be achieved with the available technology of the day and it is possible that the GL1500 engine designers drew some inspiration from the earlier work.
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The CSC RX1C 2023 does. In fact in their promo video at 4:04 min they make a big deal about it. Maybe that's because nobody else has one, like you say.
https://cscmotorcycles.com/buy-a-bike/electric-scooters/rx1e-electric-motorcycle/ (https://cscmotorcycles.com/buy-a-bike/electric-scooters/rx1e-electric-motorcycle/)
That CSC RX1C has a lot going for it. Until you mentioned it, I had never heard of it. If only the battery pack had 18 kWh instead of 6 kWh I would really be interested. But then I am pretty sure that it wouldn't look like that as there would be no room in the chassis to place a battery pack that large. Plus, the price of the bike would probably be $10K higher. It looks like they have a good model for broken city streets and suburban commuting as long as it lives up to the claimed specifications - not always something that you can rely on with a Chinese-manufactured motorcycle.
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The $9K RX1e will be the machine the everyman buys instead of the $25K Livewire. "Prestige" won't buy a cup of coffee. An 80-100 mile working range will get a lot of folks to work & back for about $15K less up front. The RX1e looks like a good, affordable effort.
I didn't see anything about the RX1 regeneratively charging the battery, so I assume that having a charger at both ends of the trip would be prudent. It also already features a Lithium battery, so you aren't going to pack many more KWHs of storage onto the existing frame. Unless you're willing to tow a 100 pound trailer full of old hybrid batteries, 100 miles is what you got. The 6KWH Toyota hybrid batteries typically weigh 50 - 80 pounds. Even with that the RX1's range just goes up maybe another 100 miles at best. There's a reason the Nissan Leaf and Tesla batteries are close to 1000 pounds. Maybe a generator on that tow-behind trailer with three 5 gallon gas cans. :o 8)
We're still waiting on the Batacitor. Existing battery tech limits functionality and there's nothing looming on the horizon. Liquid hydrocarbon fuel energy storage tech is tough to beat for practicality, energy density & convenience. Synthetic fuels made with atmospheric or renewable sourced carbon are low hanging fruit and solve the problem without requiring a complete electrical grid system rebuild and all new vehicles. Unless you are in the business of profiteering from electrical system upgrades and new vehicle sales...um...wait a minute...now just how many lobbyists are in Washington DC...? ;D ;D ;D "Mo-munay mo-munay mo-munay..."
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We're still waiting on the Batacitor. Existing battery tech limits functionality and there's nothing looming on the horizon. Liquid hydrocarbon fuel energy storage tech is tough to beat for practicality, energy density & convenience.
Solid State Hydrogen keeps creeping forward.
A couple of take-aways from the article linked below are:
"Plasma Kinetics had to put its plans (and patents) on hold for nearly a decade because the Department of Defense wanted to gain a lead in applying Smith’s methodology to missile tech and other military applications.
Now, the startup’s hydrogen storage tech may have the chance to challenge the battery business and the trillions of dollars sunk into it worldwide."
AND
"The negatively charged nano-photonic film has a strong affinity for positively charged H2, absorbing it in minutes at simple atmospheric pressure. Smith says.
If you can provide 10 kilotons of hydrogen per hour to a Plasma Kinetics system, it can absorb all 10 kilotons.
“It’s just a matter of how much you want to scale.” "
https://hydrogen-central.com/solid-state-hydrogen-storage-alternative-batteries/ (https://hydrogen-central.com/solid-state-hydrogen-storage-alternative-batteries/)
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Maybe before sinking trillions of dollars into this new hydrogen storage facility technology someone may ask this time the question where all the H2 is going to come from.
Nope, not going to happen, that would be called learning from history. I would not want to know anyway, however keen to hear some ideas.
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Maybe before sinking trillions of dollars into this new hydrogen storage facility technology someone may ask this time the question where all the H2 is going to come from.
Nope, not going to happen, that would be called learning from history. I would not want to know anyway, however keen to hear some ideas.
Where do you think hydrogen comes from?
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Where do you think hydrogen comes from?
From the big bang of course.
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Where do you think hydrogen comes from?
Politicians. ;D
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Problem with Hydrogen is people keep making bombs out of it.
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Where do you think hydrogen comes from?
Nucleosynthesis..quarks and nucleons getting "mucho friendly" in the early days, like Adam & Steve...er...Eve. Just like King James sez. "If'n it tain't King James, it hain't Bah-ble."
@ #957: Great info. Non-pressurized H2 storage is quite a trick.
" Maybe before sinking trillions of dollars into this new hydrogen storage facility technology " If the Pentagon has had its black-budget hooks in this for 10 years, likely somewhere in Nebraska there's already a functional test unit.
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The marketing of this may produce excessive amounts of fart gasses though which may label it unfortunately obsolete.
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CH4 is "mucho differente" than pure H2, like the difference between Bud Light & Negra Modelo. Both have their uses, but we all know which we prefer. There may be a thriving side market develop for old reel-to-reel, cassette & 8-track tape machines though.
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The common thing would be both are in short supply. ;)
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No, LNG (CH4) is not in short supply. If you make fracking legal again, you will get more than you will ever need.
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No, LNG (CH4) is not in short supply. If you make fracking legal again, you will get more than you will ever need.
That might be correct however it would appear our leadership would rather prefer to find a place to import it from.
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...is that the sound of one wing dragging?? :o 8)
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Understand / don't disagree.
SNIP
Remember back in time when we would mount the centerstand while sitting on the bike? It was the same(ish) motion
_ I just have this deep suspicion that a E-reverse would be very helpful. I've actually sent CSC an email asking if they have tried it. Hoping for an answer if they aren't scared off by today's world. I guess I could troll one of the biker lunch spots and find a couple of spotters and a human reverse motor and try it on my 650. huh. ;)
Just to close the loop on a goofy idea:
CSC did reply to my email. I'm not posting the name and phone number of the individual nor the full text out of respect. The answer was a bit of a wink and a nudge.
He basically said that there is nothing to stop it from working.
"The reverse will operate while the center stand is being lowered. There is no safety cut off switch on the center stand so reverse is available."
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Sounds like a possible "Hey guys, watch this..." scenario! ;D ;D ;D Job #1 is to get a handful of lottery tickets, at $10K that's a steep buy in for a 100 mile range motorcycle. But if the play money box is full enough, it doesn't matter. ::)
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...is that the sound of one wing dragging?? :o 8)
...more of an Icarus, there is no way forward as nobody can deliver the slightest poop with a price cap on it and the way back is effectively blocked. Just wait for the landing.
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" nobody can deliver "; more like won't because it's way too profitable to just keep on doing what we're doing. Energy storage is is deliberately ignored and marginalized. It's more profitable to sell all new hardware to the technically-declined than adjust the fuel supply to incorporate renewable sources. Batteries are a great tool, but have weight & size limitations compared to liquid hydrocarbon fuels. There isn't a plan to cover the electrical energy usage of an all-battery-electric transportation network; you're in essence trying to create in real time a system that can deliver the same energy capacity as that released by the energy currently stored in hydrocarbon fuels. If the idea is to enrich the Utilities and auto makers, it's a good one. It took a lot of well-paid lobbyists to get it from brilliant corporate idea to public law. The all-electric transport energy demand is fuelled from fossil power plants at least 14 hours a day because there wasn't any energy storage developed. Electricity doesn't spontaneously come out of wall plugs, it has to be made to happen. Mostly that's from burning hydrocarbon fuels. Pushing usage off one step doesn't mean it isn't happening. Wind & PV are of limited application without utility-grade energy storage, lucky break for the existing petro cartels.
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Batteries are a great tool, but have weight & size limitations compared to liquid hydrocarbon fuels.
The cost of replacement batteries will be a big issue. By all accounts replacing a battery pack will be more expensive than rebuilding an ic engine and will be needed more often. If you treat a modern car well you can get 15 or 20 years before needing any major engine work. No current battery tech is going to last 20 years.
It may well get to the point that the price of a 2nd hand car will depend on how many Hobbs hours the battery pack has, much like an older 2nd hand aircraft where the price can range from $25,000 to $50,000 depending entirely on how many hours the engine has before the next major maintenance.
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The battery pack in my daughter's 2014 Zero is now 8 years old and is still functioning as well as it did when new.
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https://doublemaviation.com/hobbs-time-vs-tach-time/
HOBBS TIME EXPLAINED
The Hobbs meter measures the hours the aircraft is being operated, and it was invented in 1938 by John Weston Hobbs. The switch controlling the Hobbs meter can be set to turn on when the Master switch is turned on, via oil pressure after the engine is started, or multiple other methods. The Hobbs meter records time as hours and tenths of hours, and it is a true measurement of how long the airplane is being operated. In other words, when an hour passes on your watch, an hour has passed on the Hobbs meter. Pilots should use Hobbs meter time when logging flight hours.
GF @ 974: Good point. Likely the car CPU records the battery demand factor, duration of hi/lo voltage conditions, etc. and converts it to "usable life remaining". Probably will eventually be added onto the "CarFax" or similar info.
So far I've just met one Lexus hybrid owner that had replaced his battery, after maybe 10-12 years, about $4K. In my reading about Prius ownership the rates & prices seem similar. These are plain-Jane NiMH batteries, not the higher capacity Li batteries.
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"pilots should use....", before you can do anything you need to free yourself from of all the folks who know what you should do.
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"pilots should use....", before you can do anything you need to free yourself from of all the folks who know what you should do.
The FAA does not make Hobbs meters compulsory.
The Hobbs does, however, make completing the aircraft logbook and pilot logbook after the flight simple, and it also acts as a sort of verification of actual aircraft hours if you ever want to sell.
In reality, very few real life pilots are anarchist, barnstorming, Hans Solo cowboy types and most people try and follow the rules, even "suggested" ones, as closely as possible. Sometimes to their detriment, there have been cases of pilots running out of fuel and dying because they overflew a perfectly good but restricted military airbase and did not want to declare an emergency to be allowed to land there.
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I have found that in technical professions involving actual hardware interactions the rulebooks are generally written in blood.
A good quality helmet, protective clothing, functional brakes and a rider with some proficiency are required to reliably take your motorcycle for a ride. Orthopaedics & spinal injury wards are full of folks that had "freed themselves from these constraints".
Even making modifications to your motorcycle requires some prudence & judgement. Erring on the side of caution on a machine that can generate enough speed to easily crush you to pulp has long term survival advantages.
"There are three general ways folks learn. There are those that learn from books. There are those that learn by watching others. Then there's that final group that just has to piss on the electric fence for themselves."
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I would want to wait for your approval of my protective gear and motorcycle though. ;) ;D
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Just put on a sock hat, sunglasses and go for it. What could go wrong... ::)
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Just put on a sock hat, sunglasses and go for it. What could go wrong... ::)
... that's something you are more likely see in California than anywhere else. However, if you intend to pop around the block with bicycle speed anyway, I don't really see what's wrong with it.
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Speaking of E-Bikes and California, yesterday I saw a teenage girl ride up my street on an electric bicycle at about 30 mph, while not touching the handlebars or looking ahead and instead holding a cell phone while looking at it and with earphones plugged into both ears. I wonder how long you can do that before running into a curb, pedestrian, a loose animal, or a car pulling out of a driveway? :o
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Darwin will tell...
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In Tucson in the 1980's the standard college fraternity frat-boy riding outfit for their KZ650 around-town outing was rubber flip-flops, satiny-gym shorts, a fishnet crop top, a great tan and hair-do. All accompanied to the jangly tune of an O-Ring chain exuding rust past the o-rings and having about 4" of slop in it. And of course the fish-hooked rear sprocket and obligatory almost-to-the-cords-in-the-very-center-of-the-tread OEM tire. As Viczena says, Darwin Award candidates. Prime organ donors though...
https://darwinawards.com/
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In Tucson in the 1980's the standard college fraternity frat-boy riding outfit for their KZ650 around-town outing was rubber flip-flops, satiny-gym shorts, a fishnet crop top, a great tan and hair-do.
(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NINTCHDBPICT000423483027.jpg?strip=all&w=769)
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Nice shoes
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(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NINTCHDBPICT000423483027.jpg?strip=all&w=769)
ATGATT !!!
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I think we all agree that she certainly has all the gear, all the time...Motel Death on the hoof! ;D ;D ;D
Much easier on the eye than those 80's frat boaz on their clapped-out KZ650s that Daddy had bought for them.
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This and a 20mph speed limit might be more to your liking. ;) ;D
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I'm guessing it took a lot of polishing to get that picture.
I'm also guessing that you don't ride around in the summer in flip-flops, shorts, a "Rock-Store" Tee-shirt, mirrored sunglasses and "Skulls 'n Flames" bandanna.
The roads locally are very twisty, and my 350 is perfect for conditions at hand. Speed limit for me is seasonal. In Fall the leaves form a nice damp teflon-like layer on the road that doesn't really care about tire compound or pressure. Spring has a thin layer of muddy fine sand producing much the effect. Both these seasons are accompanied by random deer, tourists, fallen branches, etc. Speed is generally determined by required braking distances.
Summer has the best road conditions, dry & grippy, but there's still animals, tourists and the occasional piece of furniture from a hasty move. There are a few straights where I can "Open 'er up" to 50-55 or so, but that's not really the 350 Bullet's forte. My 500 is better for summer highway use, running 55-60 easily.
None of my machines have the HP and accompanying speed that your breathed-on GT535 has. Those speeds and wind blast don't hold much appeal for me anymore. There's too much to see, smell & hear at 20 - 35 MPH in my mountain twisties. A helmet, stout pants, long sleeve shirt & sturdy shoes generally suffice.
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My riding won't differ much of yours with the occasional ton on a sunny happy day. Just before the COVID outbreak in 2019 though was the year when that pictured HD would have been the best to own. ;)
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Per Pale Argent and Sable with Argent shield impaled on Sable. Doubt that is real Heraldry.
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And here is the "exciting" "semi-autonomous" Cake Kibb. Hopefully it won't run amok and run over you. Knowing Cake's other products though, I bet it won't be cheap: https://thepack.news/kibb-the-road-to-regenerative-and-autonomous-agriculture-designed-by-cake/
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Perfect for the California celebrity vineyard owners saving the Urth and promugating their fame. A $100K quad surrounded by minimum wage illegal agriculture workers. Certainly it'll never need maintenance, reprogramming/rebooting/remapping by a well-paid Silicon Valley tech via cell phone, or be hacked by competing vintners to cause carnage. Didn't we see these in "Rollerball" or "Soylent Green"? ::)
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The Sweds are experts, some smaller bank may need a bailout though soon.
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;D
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;D
You got to acknowledge though how much effort and dedication some of the Nordic startups put in their products.
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You got to acknowledge though how much effort and dedication some of the Nordic startups put in their products.
There is that. But you sure do pay for it. ::)
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There is that. But you sure do pay for it. ::)
...not sure, they're clever salesmen, maybe they succeed to sell some of it to the chinese cities. The bikes have potential.
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Cake/Polestar introduces the limited Makka electric moped, a very minimalist design that will not travel very far or very fast and was likely not styled by an Italian ;) : https://thepack.news/polestar-releases-a-new-limited-edition-of-cake-makka-electric-moped/
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This is an interesting discussion regarding the three major freeway-capable electric motorcycle companies and their business activities that I copied from a post on the Electric Motorcycle Forum. Just don't ask me what a SPAC is or what the STACYC brand of balance bikes are as I never heard of either term:
Livewire: The first company is obviously Livewire (LVWR). Harley Davidson spun its Liveware division into a SPAC earlier this year. Livewire sells full-sized motorcycles under its own brand and the STACYC brand of balance bikes. In fact, Livewire generates three times as much revenue from STACYC bikes as Livewire bikes.
Livewire’s full-sized bikes are produced under a contract manufacturing agreement with Harley Davidson, which makes them at the big plant in York, PA. Livewire makes STACYC bikes through assemblers in Taiwan.
Livewire’s gross margins hover around zero, so after operating expenses the company is losing a ton of money. On the other hand, Livewire has bucketfuls of cash after the SPAC merger.
Livewire is the only “pure play” exposure to the EV sector, though as noted most of that exposure is mostly to the sub-highway bike segment of the market.
Since Harley retains a near-90% ownership of Livewire, you can get indirect exposure to Livewire through Harley Davidson (HOG), though the investment is a tiny fraction of HOG’s total value.
Energica: After a tender offer in Italy earlier this year, around 70% of Energica is owned by publicly-traded Ideanomics (IDEX). Energica makes only the Energica motorcycles, though it is working on adapting its technology to other applications like boats and tractors and was thinking about entering the smaller-bike market. The other 30 or so percent of Energica is owned by Livia Cevolini, her family, and early investors.
Financial information on Energica is more difficult to get than it is for Livewire and that will continue as Ideanomics will probably not give detailed results on the company. Prior to the merger, Energica had a similar profit story as Livewire: Gross margins near zero, and the company producing losses as a result. For the nine months to September 30, Energica had revenues of $8.8 mm and a loss, also of $8.8 mm. Unlike Livewire, Energica manufactures its own bikes and many of the components.
Energica’s new parent company, Ideanomics, seeks to become a conglomerate of EV and related businesses. After investing heavily in the China EV market (and losing all of it), Ideanomics is now comprised primarily of a company that retrofits vehicles to hydrogen fuel cells or battery electric called US Hybrid, an electric tractor company called Solectrac, and WAVE, which is developing wireless charging for large trucks. Energica is another part of the conglomerate, though it has a separate shareholder agreement and management structure.
All of Ideanomics’ businesses operate at a loss (including a couple of unrelated businesses like a title-search company), and the loss for the nine months was more than $100 mm. Ideanomics is also liquidity-constrained and faces substantial dilution in the near future. After various writedowns and considering the stock price, the Energica investment makes up the majority of the company’s value, though how much of that value accrues to common shareholders is a fair question.
Zero: Zero motorcycles is private. But in its most recently announced round of funding, Zero disclosed that two public companies had invested. Polaris (PII) and Hero Motorcorp (On India’s national stock exchange) both participated in the round. Zero did not disclose how much each invested, but the entire round was only $107 mm, so the amounts are small in comparison to the companies that made the commitment.
Because it is private, there is little known about Zero's financials other than the company has delivered approximately 20,000 bikes since its inception.
Polaris owns the Indian and defunct Victory motorcycle brands and purchased the electric motorcycle assets of Brammo when that blew up, briefly producing the Victory Empulse.
Hero Motorcorp is among the largest manufacturers of two-wheeled vehicles in the world, focusing on scoots and smaller motorcycles. It just launched its first Electric scoot under its Vita brand.
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This is an interesting discussion regarding the three major freeway-capable electric motorcycle companies and their business activities that I copied from a post on the Electric Motorcycle Forum. Just don't ask me what a SPAC is or what the STACYC brand of balance bikes are as I never heard of either term:
SPAC
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/spac.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/spac.asp)
Less stringent form of raising money.
STACYC
Money incinerator. ;)
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STACYC = electric trainer bikes for kids that they will grow out of in less than a month. Suited to parents with excess money.
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(http://)
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Here is a link to an extensive RevZilla riding review of the BMW CE04 electric scooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZClWcL4D44
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THXiuAkEPR4
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-27/battery-swapping-electric-motorcycles-in-kenya/101811270
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Verge has announced another new model, the 2023 Verge TS Ultra, with very impressive specifications and a price to match:
https://thepack.news/verge-motorcycles-introduces-it-3rd-model-verge-ts-ultra-at-ces-2023/
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Verge has announced another new model, the 2023 Verge TS Ultra, with very impressive specifications and a price to match:
https://thepack.news/verge-motorcycles-introduces-it-3rd-model-verge-ts-ultra-at-ces-2023/
Please, please tell me that that thing doesn't have a robot voice that greets you by name when you start it. ;)
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Please, please tell me that that thing doesn't have a robot voice that greets you by name when you start it. ;)
I don't even want to think about changing the rear tire or making any repairs, servicing, or adjustments to the rear wheel drive apparatus on the Verge models. :o
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Please, please tell me that that thing doesn't have a robot voice that greets you by name when you start it. ;)
It probably also tells you to "have a nice day" .
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@ # 1011: Maybe it comes with a case of Shoe-Goo to retread weekly with. ;D
Could also have a "lifetime" solid tire; when the tred's gone just turn it back in to your friendly local dealer for a pro-rated discount on a new Verge. :o
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Electric bikes - the future of motorcycling - I don't like it.
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Electric bikes - the future of motorcycling - I like it.
Verge rear tire: You open some scews, get the license plate out of the way, and you can pull out the rim together with the tire. Under 5 min job.
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Did you get a Verge or did you hold off? Have you been able to score a test ride?
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I did get a message that my bike will be in the first batch delivered Q2.
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Electric bikes - the future of motorcycling - I like it.
Verge rear tire: You open some scews, get the license plate out of the way, and you can pull out the rim together with the tire. Under 5 min job.
I certainly love it, I could probably fix it in under 1 min for you. ;)
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https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20221215-the-batteries-made-from-wood
" There is at least one other way that lignin could be used in batteries, besides anodes. In April, a research team in Italy published a paper about their efforts to develop a lignin-based electrolyte.
Maybe you could even use it to power the wooden electronic components described in a paper earlier this year. "
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-31283-7
Sustainable wood electronics by iron-catalyzed laser-induced graphitization for large-scale applications
" Wood materials are also especially useful for applications requiring not only high mechanical strength and scalability, such as structural health monitoring (e.g., strain sensors incorporated in load-bearing structures), but also valuable esthetics and haptics (such as touch-screens and light displays as human-machine interfaces in smart buildings).
To showcase the usefulness of IC-LIG for sustainable large-scale wood electronics, we developed four proof-of-concept applications, namely: a highly durable strain sensor suitable for structural health monitoring, a flexible electrode for motion tracking, a human-machine interface (capacitive touch panel) with the esthetics and haptics of wood, and the first example of an electroluminescent device made using LIG as electrode material.
Besides structural and flexible sensors, electrically conductive wooden elements could have useful design applications especially as user interfaces. Large wall panels with controls actuated by capacitive sensing could be used e.g., to switch on and off the lights in a smart home. As a proof-of-concept to demonstrate the potential of IC-LIG for real-world, large-scale wood electronics, we built a touch panel with an array of conductive areas or “buttons” that control a dimmable wooden desk lamp
we describe the use of a LIG-based back electrode to fabricate an electroluminescent device
we observed that by changing the operating voltage and frequency to 325 V and 50 Hz, respectively, the illuminated area became more uniform, and the emitted color changed from blue to light turquoise
Applications for energy storage devices (e.g., batteries and supercapacitors), requiring porous highly conductive metal-rich structures, are also envisaged for our IC-LIG materials. "
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Verge TS bike - you mean somebody actually likes the look of that thing !
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That is good. Nothing worse than a boring uniform looking bike. That looks like everything else on the market. And pleases the mainstream.
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Viczena - did you get a chance to ride one yet? Did they have a demo available? The specs show that it's quick.
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That is good. Nothing worse than a boring uniform looking bike. That looks like everything else on the market. And pleases the mainstream.
That's true, this one is a bit extravagant...the inspectors might give you trouble when seeking approval. The boring bikes leave more room for modding, however within couple of months of leaving the factory probably every bike can be considered custom anyway with its own story.
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That is good. Nothing worse than a boring uniform looking bike. That looks like everything else on the market. And pleases the mainstream.
I must have been looking at the wrong pictures ! :)
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Well it looks bit like an express pizza delivery to the market through the Swedish forest.
https://youtu.be/d70t5ydoNIQ
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Honda announces three new electric city scooters/motorbikes: https://thepack.news/honda-motor-china-announces-honda-cub-e-dax-e-zoomer-e/
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Honda announces three new electric city scooters/motorbikes: https://thepack.news/honda-motor-china-announces-honda-cub-e-dax-e-zoomer-e/
All awful !
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sytWLB4-W-M
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I absololutely dont care about saving the planet. The planet does not need this (politicians do). But BEVs are just the better cars. Faster, more accelleration, no transmission, quiet, autonmomous driving for boring highways, low maintenance, cheaper driving. Every morning the "tank" is full again. No need for filthy gas stations. Feels like you drive a motorcycle.
Once you have driven a decent BEV, you will never take back a lousy ICE.
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I absololutely dont care about saving the planet. The planet does not need this (politicians do). But BEVs are just the better cars. Faster, more accelleration, no transmission, quiet, autonmomous driving for boring highways, low maintenance, cheaper driving. Every morning the "tank" is full again. No need for filthy gas stations. Feels like you drive a motorcycle.
Once you have driven a decent BEV, you will never take back a lousy ICE.
How are those long road trips working out for you?
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Superchargers are everywhere and always work.
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I'm thinking you don't live out west, Come to New Mexico (one of many potential starting points) and try drive to California. I'll jump in my ICE car and you in your EV. We will maintain the same speed and stop for fill ups and see who gets there first.
My point being in many areas there is just not the supporting infrastructure yet. Yes you could make the trip but not with the directness and convenience that I can. That will change eventually if mandate's force us into EV ownership.
For the record I do believe our planet is worth saving whatever the threat to it is. Industrialization currently is wreaking havoc on the environment, this whole EV thing is a distraction to make us peons feel warm and fuzzy about doing our part while oligarchs across the globe continue to rape and pillage mother earth, EV's being charged from dirty power sources and suspect material sources won't begin to make a dent.
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Electric vehicle life today is very similar to ICE life 100 years ago.
People were concerned about saving the horses (or were they?) Range anxiety was a thing. Similar conversations. (Should I buy a gasoline vehicle or wait to see if something better comes along next year?)
I'm not convinced electric cars will save the planet either, nor do I care. Lithium mining is a nasty process, and we still don't know how to recycle old batteries.
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I'm convinced they will save the day.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64253708
...the digging will probably start shortly.
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It boils down to building functional, practical Utility grade energy storage. Hydrogen can fill the bill cheaply if either blended into the natural gas supply or stored directly in existing oil wells or developed salt domes. That competes directly with existing extraction industries so it isn't being done, thanks to a well developed lobbyist infrastructure. There is nothing to be discovered here about creating, storing & using H2, it's just a question of public good vs. private profit.
Renewable sourced H2 can be combined with recycled carbon from landfill waste, sewage, biomass or even recovered atmospheric CO2 to make synthetic hydrocarbon fuels, a proven compact convenient energy storage medium. Batteries have a place in vehicles, note the success of the Toyota (and "other") hybrids. But batteries aren't a particularly good way to store Utility levels of power. They have a fairly large surface footprint, have a definite service life and are expensive for the amount of storage provided. Plenty good for hybrid vehicle use but less so on the power generation/transmission end. Synthetic fuels eliminate the need to go all battery, eliminating the need to pay Utilities very well indeed to revise their entire electrical distribution system to accommodate total real-time transportation energy usage. Separating normal Utility load from fuel production energy makes them non-consequent, not happening at the same time. Synthetic hydrocarbon fuels let you spread out total production energy usage over time instead of mandating on-demand production of electrical power. Traditional fuels are derived from hydrocarbons largely costing only extraction monies, and largely extracted from public lands. These represent lots of stored energy from ancient processes, so they are "non-consequent" to normal Utility load.
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I'm convinced they will save the day.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64253708
...the digging will probably start shortly.
Putin will be looking to 'denazify' Sweden then !
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Putin will be looking to 'denazify' Sweden then !
lol
Nazi = does not speak Russian
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1UDvi5xL9w
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1UDvi5xL9w
It was not just the T34, it was how many they had ...
https://youtu.be/WE6mnPmztoQ?t=284
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I'm thinking you don't live out west, Come to New Mexico (one of many potential starting points) and try drive to California. I'll jump in my ICE car and you in your EV. We will maintain the same speed and stop for fill ups and see who gets there first.
My point being in many areas there is just not the supporting infrastructure yet. Yes you could make the trip but not with the directness and convenience that I can. That will change eventually if mandate's force us into EV ownership.
For the record I do believe our planet is worth saving whatever the threat to it is. Industrialization currently is wreaking havoc on the environment, this whole EV thing is a distraction to make us peons feel warm and fuzzy about doing our part while oligarchs across the globe continue to rape and pillage mother earth, EV's being charged from dirty power sources and suspect material sources won't begin to make a dent.
When I was young, I also used to race 10h without rest. Nowadays I plan my schedule and make a little rest every 2 hours. More than enough time to recharge on a supercharger. But I make these rests independent of ICE or BEV. And for longer trips I take the airplane.
I found out that I am nearly as fast as the others who dont rest. And I have a much nicer driving experience. Even when I drive 150mph with my BEV.
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#1035: H2 is dead. It is inefficient, dangerous and very expensive.
Instead of producing "green" H2 it is much more convenient to store the electric energy in batteries and us it to drive directly.
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Electric vehicle life today is very similar to ICE life 100 years ago.
People were concerned about saving the horses (or were they?) Range anxiety was a thing. Similar conversations. (Should I buy a gasoline vehicle or wait to see if something better comes along next year?)
I'm not convinced electric cars will save the planet either, nor do I care. Lithium mining is a nasty process, and we still don't know how to recycle old batteries.
Lithium mining is easy. There is enough of it everywhere. And it is no problem to recycle lithium cells. The problem is that there are not enough of them, because used lithium batteries are well sought after for a second or third life in ships or as powerwall storage in houses.
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Lithium is supposed to help against bipolar disorders too, something the Sweds may appreciate when fighting the femanisation.
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Lithium is supposed to help against bipolar disorders too, something the Sweds may appreciate when fighting the femanisation.
Lithium is not really an optimal bipolar treatment. There are a lot of issues with it.
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"Revolutionary: Mazda brings back the rotary engine ... in an electric car?
MX-30 R-EV uses it in an unusual way..."
"Eleven years after discontinuing it, Mazda has brought back its signature rotary engine in an unusual way.
It turned it into a range-extending generator for its MX-30 electric SUV.
A rotary engine typically has a better power to weight ratio than a piston engine and runs more smoothly, making it technically ideal for this application, where it can operate at a constant speed. ..."
"The gasoline-powered single-rotor engine and 13-gallon gas tank can be used after the battery is drained for longer trips, but is not connected to the wheels at all. It is just used to generate electricity."
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/01/720/405/mx-generator.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/revolutionary-mazda-rotary-engine-electric-car (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/revolutionary-mazda-rotary-engine-electric-car)
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To me the Mazda solution would appear like a very "cheap" way out of the electric dilemma.
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Well the railways have been doing it that way since Ingersoll-Rand / ALCO sold the first diesel-electric locomotive to the Central Railroad of New Jersey (CNJ) back in 1925 .
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https://youtu.be/hHhf223jGIE
...this might cause some sleep less nights though when your neighbors charging their EV's for the next day.
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Sweden is in the EV news - and not because of Greta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwcv3higeMI
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Sweden is in the EV news - and not because of Greta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwcv3higeMI
They seem to have entrusted the Patriotic Union Führers with the task to develop these deposits which is almost a guarantee the excavation and processing may start on schedule.
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@ #1041: " H2 is dead. It is inefficient, dangerous and very expensive. Instead of producing "green" H2 it is much more convenient to store the electric energy in batteries and us it to drive directly. "
I get it - change is frightening, more so as we age. More comfortable to deny the new and stick with what seems familiar. At one time it was wax candles, then kerosene lamps, then gas lighting, then that insidious electric lamp came along, then those horrid flickering fluorescent lamps, and now satanic LEDs. What's the world coming to?
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@ #1041: " H2 is dead. It is inefficient, dangerous and very expensive. Instead of producing "green" H2 it is much more convenient to store the electric energy in batteries and us it to drive directly. "
I get it - change is frightening, more so as we age. More comfortable to deny the new and stick with what seems familiar. At one time it was wax candles, then kerosene lamps, then gas lighting, then that insidious electric lamp came along, then those horrid flickering fluorescent lamps, and now satanic LEDs. What's the world coming to?
What is the world coming to? How about hell in a hand-basket. (Auto-correct wanted to make that "breadbasket".) ;D
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How about a hand in a hell basket? That, I'd like to see.
But I digress. I agree with your points but too dumb to add anything of substance.
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B10x - place hand in hell basket... :o
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H2 are definitely not dead. Kawasaki still sell them.
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H2 can also be produced on site in remote locations, unlike diesel. Co-burning reduces emissions and fuel purchase costs. Wind, Hydro or Solar generation & electrolyzers can work to fill site pressurized fuel storage vessels even when the jobsite is idle. - ACR -
https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/technology/2022/10/inside-innovation-the-potential-of-hydrogen-to-power-heavy-trucks-and-equipment
" An alternative are ICEs that burn hydrogen as the fuel. These optimized engines are mechanically similar to natural gas engines, operating on the same cycle and with many of the same components. In fact, hydrogen ICEs share many similar components with diesel engines as well.
As engine manufacturer Cummins explains, this gives hydrogen engines appeal to end users.
“Hydrogen engines look, sound and work like the internal combustion engines that every mechanic in the world is used to. Their reliability and durability are equal to that of diesel engines.”
Hydrogen can also be blended with diesel fuel. Caterpillar says its engines have the ability to run on five to 10 per cent hydrogen mixtures, with some customized test projects posting more than 200,000 operating hours on blends up to 60 per cent hydrogen. "
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Revzilla has published this article describing four electric motorcycles that they found interesting at the 2023 CES electronics show.
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/electric-motorcycles-at-ces-2023
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@ #1041: " H2 is dead. It is inefficient, dangerous and very expensive. Instead of producing "green" H2 it is much more convenient to store the electric energy in batteries and us it to drive directly. "
I get it - change is frightening, more so as we age. More comfortable to deny the new and stick with what seems familiar. At one time it was wax candles, then kerosene lamps, then gas lighting, then that insidious electric lamp came along, then those horrid flickering fluorescent lamps, and now satanic LEDs. What's the world coming to?
Exploding H2 is frightening. Or the prices you pay for H2 are frightening. And the prices you pay for "green" H2 are mega-fightening.
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Watching a Tesla burn to the ground emitting a toxic cloud despite the fire departments best efforts is frightening. Harnessed energy always has the potential for destruction. Being on the wrong end of a runaway team of horses was pretty fear-inspiring in 1850 and still is today. Simple structural fires kill thousands yearly. People are electrocuted by their appliances, walk thru glass doors and are eviscerated, overdose on cold medicine, all technologies but still dangerous. there's no end. The operating mantra for contained energy has always been "Be careful, gosh be careful..."
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You can enter the house through the front door or you can walk around the globe to enter it from the back door.
How about you do the running and I take the front door. Including the 500cc two stroke.
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You can let your house burn to the ground from a stovetop grease fire or you can put it out. You can save money by topping off, not changing engine oil for 140,000 miles or you can drop the oil and add a new filter every 5K-7K miles and run 300,000 before the engine gets tired. The day of tossing your deer bones on the tribal midden & walking away is over. We need to use the tech we have to not destroy our common playing field. At +8,000,000,000 bodies, we're the animal having the largest impact on the terrain. Laissez faire won't cut it anymore.
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Watching a Tesla burn to the ground emitting a toxic cloud despite the fire departments best efforts is frightening. Harnessed energy always has the potential for destruction. Being on the wrong end of a runaway team of horses was pretty fear-inspiring in 1850 and still is today. Simple structural fires kill thousands yearly. People are electrocuted by their appliances, walk thru glass doors and are eviscerated, overdose on cold medicine, all technologies but still dangerous. there's no end. The operating mantra for contained energy has always been "Be careful, gosh be careful..."
Just tell your glorious fire department, what everybody else already knows: Sink a burning BEV in a container filled with water, wait 3 days, then you can safely examine the wreck.
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Apparently the German fire responders have a crane & portable swimming pool?
Our guys mostly carry about 500 gallons of water, some CO2 and maybe a foam nozzle. Hopefully there's a hydrant nearby, but usually not at a random piece of roadside. Normal process is to prevent collateral fire damage and get people upwind & uphill until the Hazmat team arrive.
Again - every stored energy tech involves a certain degree of hazard. Usually the liability insurance folks will drive the process. Jay Leno recently got his face cooked a bit when his gasoline fired steam car sprang an untimely leak. In those early days, gasoline was just a dangerous highly flammable byproduct of kerosene production in search of a market. The steam folks just made good use of cheap fuel. "Be careful, gosh be careful"...words to live by.
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Apparently Tesla fell down from Greta's house in the trees on the rest of us scrap yard boys.
...like the UCE Bullet & GT.
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I wonder if our toxic landfills and nuclear waste caverns will be designated as sacred middens some day? ;)
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Meanwhile Toyota announces a new H2 combustion engine design. It looks like it could be expensive to manufacture, though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6liX9KuSwkk
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Apparently the German fire responders have a crane & portable swimming pool?
Our guys mostly carry about 500 gallons of water, some CO2 and maybe a foam nozzle. Hopefully there's a hydrant nearby, but usually not at a random piece of roadside. Normal process is to prevent collateral fire damage and get people upwind & uphill until the Hazmat team arrive.
Again - every stored energy tech involves a certain degree of hazard. Usually the liability insurance folks will drive the process. Jay Leno recently got his face cooked a bit when his gasoline fired steam car sprang an untimely leak. In those early days, gasoline was just a dangerous highly flammable byproduct of kerosene production in search of a market. The steam folks just made good use of cheap fuel. "Be careful, gosh be careful"...words to live by.
So US fire departments are unable to transport an empty container and fill it with water? And do not have cranes? They do not even have to hurry, because lithium cells burn very slow. Trump already spoke about the devastating infrastructure in the US...
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Any pictures of the German firefighters carrying around a 2m x 3m x 8m tank full of water and a suitable crane/forklift? That would be something to see. This publication suggests that the German firefighters are in much the same boat as their American counterparts. < https://publikationen.dguv.de/widgets/pdf/download/article/3926 >
https://www.slashgear.com/german-firm-launches-new-tech-for-firefighters-to-battle-ev-fires-21700118
Netherland Firefighters Dunk Smoking Electric Car In Liquid To Prevent Fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzJ6LperQUk
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@ #1066: I'm not sure why they'd choose a reciprocating engine vs. a fuel cell based design when actual fuel availability is problematic. NOx is normally controlled with urea injection and combustion chamber design, an issue only for the product development engineers. Possibly Toyota/Yamaha have one of those rare 50%-60% efficiency IC engines up their sleeve, if so maybe they don't feel they need to do more fuel cell R&D.
Toyota Developing Hydrogen Engine Technologies Through Motorsports
https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/35209996.html
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222549160_Urea-SCR_A_promising_technique_to_reduce_NOx_emissions_from_automotive_diesel_engines#:~:text=Selective%20Catalytic%20Reduction%20(SCR)%20is,from%20the%20exhaust%20(DeNOx).
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/11/f27/fcto_fuel_cells_fact_sheet.pdf (40% - 60% efficiencies shown)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency#:~:text=in%20more%20drag.-,Gasoline%20(petrol)%20engines,used%20to%20power%20a%20car.
" Modern gasoline engines have a maximum thermal efficiency of more than 50%,[1] but road legal cars are only about 20% to 35% when used to power a car. "
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2021-toyota-mirai-fcev-yearlong-test-review-verdict/#:~:text=The%20Mirai%20is%20rated%20at,tank%20of%2077%20mpg%2De.
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Briggs & Stratton is more efficient than anything that came post 2009 to the market, especially considering the development and production cost.
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Any pictures of the German firefighters carrying around a 2m x 3m x 8m tank full of water and a suitable crane/forklift? That would be something to see. This publication suggests that the German firefighters are in much the same boat as their American counterparts. < https://publikationen.dguv.de/widgets/pdf/download/article/3926 >
https://www.slashgear.com/german-firm-launches-new-tech-for-firefighters-to-battle-ev-fires-21700118
Netherland Firefighters Dunk Smoking Electric Car In Liquid To Prevent Fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzJ6LperQUk
Even the small Netherland can do it :https://p6.focus.de/img/fotos/id_10620717/55551884-2902011483145922-5681599858335547392-n.jpg?im=Resize%3D%28630%2C393%29&impolicy=perceptual&quality=medium&hash=1b89475d9d4643b41e8aceeaa8c29f4b7c37e150ffc76fc2f461388866ad420b
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Briggs & Stratton...UCE...I'm seeing the resemblance now... ;D When do we get the V-Twin version?
Briggs & Stratton bankruptcy; Wisconsin DWD, DOJ announce deal; January 12, 2022
https://www.fox6now.com/news/briggs-dwd-doj-announced-deal
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@ 1072: Hey - that looks a lot like what I previously posted...is Holland part of Germany now?
Netherland Firefighters Dunk Smoking Electric Car In Liquid To Prevent Fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzJ6LperQUk
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I thought electricity and and liquids were a no-no ?
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IF a fellow has a dedicated portable 12,000 gallon box of water and a giant forklift or rough country crane, and IF they are OK with converting that to 12,000 gallons of hazmat instead of letting an electric car cook off in an inhabited area, then the Dutch might be onto something.
Probably this is a more normal scenario:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-netherlands/dutchman-dies-in-tesla-crash-firefighters-feared-electrocution-idUSKCN11D28Z
< old> Dutchman dies in Tesla crash; firefighters feared electrocution; By Toby Sterling; SEPTEMBER 7, 2016
AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - A Dutchman died on Wednesday after his Tesla TSLA.O collided with a tree, according to local authorities, and it took firefighters hours to remove his body from the vehicle due to fears they could be electrocuted.
Fire department spokesman Ronald Boer said guidelines for dealing with electric car crashes were well established in the Netherlands. But due to the nature and severity of the wreckage, firefighters could not be certain whether the car might be under high voltage.
Newspaper De Telegraaf reported the car’s battery was broken, and part of it caught fire and was difficult to extinguish. Part of the battery remained inside the car, the paper said, leading to the fears of electrocution.
De Boer said since firefighters were certain the victim had died immediately after the crash, it did not make sense for rescue workers to take unneeded risks in recovering his body.
https://www.ctif.org/news/150-000-liters-water-needed-put-out-fire-electric-car
According to an article on TheHill.com on August 17, 2021 it is considered normal procedure that firefighters will need to use up to 40 times more water to put out a fire in an EV, compared to a standard gasoline car.
The article also claims authorities have said a Tesla Model X poses a serious threat of starting a fire for hours after a crash.
“Normally a car fire you can put out with 500 to 1,000 gallons of water,” Austin Fire Department Division Chief Thayer Smith said, according The Independent.
“But Teslas may take up to 30,000-40,000 gallons of water, maybe even more, to extinguish the battery pack once it starts burning."
Woodlands Fire Chief Palmer Buck told Fox 7 that "there is no blueprint for putting out fires involving electric vehicles":
“There is not, at this point, any easily obtainable extinguishing agent on the market to deal with these fires. It all goes back to the way the cars are engineered with the battery pack being at the bottom of the car, and encased in a titanium shell, so you really can’t gain access to it, you just have to sit back and pour water on it,” Buck said.
A large part of the reason many EVs are notoriously difficult to extinguish may be due to the construction of the vehicle, with a heavily encased battery pack which is difficult to reach for the fire crews.
While normally, a conventional car fire may be put out with between 2000 and 4000 liters of water, an EV will often need a much more prolonged intervention because the battery is protected by a strong encasing. Because the chemicals in the battery will continue to produce their own oxygen to some degree, even when completely soaked, the water is often less effective than of conventional fuels.
Many experts recommend the method of submersion of a burning EV into a water filled container like a sea can. However, this is is not always practical or possible to arrange, and it also takes considerable time to fill the container which may be counterproductive when needing to protect surrounding vehicles or buildings from the EV fire.
Some fire services have improvised their own methods of partial submersion for EVs on fire, as CTIF.org reported on earlier this August.
https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions
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Maybe Putin needs to start lobbing Tesla's at Ukraine instead ?
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Or you put the car into a water filled container. And everybody (maybe not US firemen) knows the procedure to unlock the battery so there is no chance for electrocution. In case of an accident a Tesla unlocks the battery with a pyro charge.
In case of surrounding garages ets which have to be protected, a burning ICE car is much worse, as it burns down completely in 15 min, while a BEV burns down very slowly.
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EV cars burning down are admittedly a rare event. The "evfiresafe" videos look like the process would be unduly exciting if you were in the vicinity.
https://www.evfiresafe.com/post/electric-car-explosions
The CTIF.ORG article attached to the previous post states about car immersion: "However, this is is not always practical or possible to arrange, and it also takes considerable time to fill the container which may be counterproductive when needing to protect surrounding vehicles or buildings from the EV fire."
The EV dunking equipment seems pretty sparse. Stats show about 2,300,000 EVs in the USA, with an average of 25 fires per year for every 100,000 EVs, so a bit over 500 EV fires nationwide yearly, a bit under 2 a day nationwide. Tying up $200K or so for a specialized tank and car lift may be a budget buster for many fire departments except for those of a few major cities.
https://www.route-fifty.com/public-safety/2022/10/why-many-fire-departments-arent-ready-electric-vehicles/378787/
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Every dumpster from a nearby garbage is usable. No need for special equipment. Most of the time the fire is slow. So there is enough time and possibility to transport the wreck to a safe place on a low-loader.
Most of the time, when a Tesla is burning after an accident, it is not the battery, but the climate friengly aircon liquid, that has to be used in all modern cars.
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Briggs & Stratton...UCE...I'm seeing the resemblance now... ;D When do we get the V-Twin version?
Briggs & Stratton bankruptcy; Wisconsin DWD, DOJ announce deal; January 12, 2022
https://www.fox6now.com/news/briggs-dwd-doj-announced-deal
That's what happens when you steel everyones funds and give it to Greta to develop the world's best engine.
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Maybe pushing a burning EV into the nearest swimming pool would work? I bet there are a lot of swimming pools in Texas. ;) In the meantime Wyoming has a different solution to the EV problem ::) : https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/taking-on-elon-musk-this-state-legislature-could-ban-electric-vehicle-sales-by-2035/ar-AA16nujm
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I rather like the idea of equating a Tesla with a dumpster fire. ;D
I can see Plan B in action now, the incense-like aroma of burning Tesla wafting away along the highway and into adjacent traffic, oozing in acrid clouds off from the flatbed tow truck of the unfortunate tow operator that drew the short straw that shift, now desperately trying to get to the designated EV dunk tank the next county over before molten car goo ignites his duals and bed-lift hydraulics... :o Sounds like a part expressly written for Jason Statham - maybe call it "Toxic Speed"?
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It could be the reason why you see as many ICE vehicles burning in places like Paris or Sweden. The EV fans might be trying to equalise the statistics.
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Maybe they were just tired of waiting for the EV cabin heater to start working at -30C and they knew of a reliable source of heat ???
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Maybe they were just tired of waiting for the EV cabin heater to start working at -30C and they knew of a reliable source of heat ???
Could be, especially if you happen to work in that government owned mine with all the rare earths inside near Kiruna and dream all day of the new BEV Volvo that you may never be able to afford. ;)
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https://www.acea.auto/
...better to have a job in one of those important organisations that set the unrealistic goals and do the blablabla, provide the statistics and than blame everyone else if the goals are not met.
Couldn't find anything though on the probability of an EV catching fire.
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Add these to Großväters golf cart and you have an affordable all-weather self charging EV. For cabin heat bring some friends and a bottle of Schnapps.
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It could be the reason why you see as many ICE vehicles burning in places like Paris or Sweden. The EV fans might be trying to equalise the statistics.
It is a well known fact that ICE vehicles exploding in movies is in fact left wing propaganda pushed by Trotskyites and Maoists. Gasoline is not inflammable.
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It is a well known fact that ICE vehicles exploding in movies is in fact left wing propaganda pushed by Trotskyites and Maoists. Gasoline is not inflammable.
I guess, there a rarely huge fireballs surrounding car crashes.
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Correct, usually just a thick screen of Liability Lawyers... :o
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It is a well known fact that ICE vehicles exploding in movies is in fact left wing propaganda pushed by Trotskyites and Maoists. Gasoline is not inflammable.
Gasoline is flammable, but not explosive.
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Gasoline is flammable, but not explosive.
Aye true, though the mix enough air with gasoline vapour sort of changes the story a bit.
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It looks like "explosion" refers to something actually flying apart. The flame front speed of travel game seems to devolve to defining burning, deflagration & detonation.
Burning is in the cm/second range. Deflagration is subsonic flame front propagation (up to 0.34 Km/s), detonation is supersonic flame front propagation ( over .34 Km/s).
Dynamite combustion propagates at about 1.2 Km/s. Faster explosives can achieve nearly 4 Km/s rates.
Gasoline can detonate, usually when "burned" in its lower combustible limits. This makes supersonic shock waves/pressure waves inside the combustion chamber, ie. "knock".
Kevin Cameron in his December 26, 2018 article discusses this phenomenon and a lot more. His fast combustion chamber working numbers cited are about 0.006 to 0.020 Km/sec. Even a 0.34Km/s detonation effect shock wave is still some 17x faster than normal working numbers.
https://www.cycleworld.com/how-fuel-efficiency-and-fast-combustion-are-related/#:~:text=Although%20people%20casually%20refer%20to,to%20150%20feet%20per%20second.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flammability_limitViolence of combustion
Combustion can vary in degree of violence. A deflagration is a propagation of a combustion zone at a velocity less than the speed of sound in the unreacted medium. A detonation is a propagation of a combustion zone at a velocity greater than the speed of sound in the unreacted medium. An explosion is the bursting or rupture of an enclosure or container due to the development of internal pressure from a deflagration or detonation as defined in NFPA 69.
Lower flammability limit (LFL): The lowest concentration (percentage) of a gas or a vapor in air capable of producing a flash of fire in the presence of an ignition source (arc, flame, heat). The term is considered by many safety professionals to be the same as the lower explosive level (LEL). At a concentration in air lower than the LFL, gas mixtures are "too lean" to burn.
Percentage reading on combustible air monitors should not be confused with the LFL concentrations. Explosimeters designed and calibrated to a specific gas may show the relative concentration of the atmosphere to the LFL—the LFL being 100%. A 5% displayed LFL reading for methane, for example, would be equivalent to 5% multiplied by 4.4%, or approximately 0.22% methane by volume at 20 degrees C. Control of the explosion hazard is usually achieved by sufficient natural or mechanical ventilation, to limit the concentration of flammable gases or vapors to a maximum level of 25% of their lower explosive or flammable limit.
Upper flammability limit (UFL): Highest concentration (percentage) of a gas or a vapor in air capable of producing a flash of fire in the presence of an ignition source (arc, flame, heat). Concentrations higher than UFL or UEL are "too rich" to burn. Operating above the UFL is usually avoided for safety because air leaking in can bring the mixture into combustibility range.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detonation
Detonation (from Latin detonare 'to thunder down/forth'[1]) is a type of combustion involving a supersonic exothermic front accelerating through a medium that eventually drives a shock front propagating directly in front of it. Detonations propagate supersonically through shock waves with speeds in the range of 1 km/sec and differ from deflagrations which have subsonic flame speeds in the range of 1 m/sec.[2]
Detonations occur in both conventional solid and liquid explosives,[3] as well as in reactive gases. The velocity of detonation in solid and liquid explosives is much higher than that in gaseous ones, which allows the wave system to be observed with greater detail (higher resolution).
A very wide variety of fuels may occur as gases (e.g. hydrogen), droplet fogs, or dust suspensions. In addition to oxygen, oxidants can include halogen compounds, ozone, hydrogen peroxide and oxides of nitrogen. Gaseous detonations are often associated with a mixture of fuel and oxidant in a composition somewhat below conventional flammability ratios.
Applications
When used in explosive devices, the main cause of damage from a detonation is the supersonic blast front (a powerful shock wave) in the surrounding area. This is a significant distinction from deflagrations where the exothermic wave is subsonic and maximum pressures for non-metal dusts are approximately 7 - 10 times atmospheric pressure.[24] Therefore, detonation is a feature for destructive purpose while deflagration is favored for the acceleration of firearms' projectiles. However, detonation waves may also be used for less destructive purposes, including deposition of coatings to a surface[25] or cleaning of equipment (e.g. slag removal[26]) and even explosively welding together metals that would otherwise fail to fuse.
In engines and firearms
Unintentional detonation when deflagration is desired is a problem in some devices. In Otto cycle, or gasoline engines it is called engine knocking or pinging, and it causes a loss of power, excessive heating, and harsh mechanical shock that can result in eventual engine failure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking
The phenomenon of detonation was described in November 1914 in a letter from Lodge Brothers (spark plug manufacturers, and sons of Sir Oliver Lodge) settling a discussion regarding the cause of "knocking" or "pinging" in motorcycles. In the letter they stated that an early ignition can give rise to the gas detonating instead of the usual expansion, and the sound that is produced by the detonation is the same as if the metal parts had been tapped with a hammer.[1] It was further investigated and described by Harry Ricardo during experiments carried out between 1916 and 1919 to discover the reason for failures in aircraft engines.[2]
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Ducati starts production of their MotoE electric race bikes: https://thepack.news/ducatis-production-of-motoe-bikes-for-the-2023-championship-has-begun/
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http://qjmotor.ssrmotorsports.com/
SSR Motorsports is now the exclusive distributor of QJ Motor brand of motorcycles and scooters in the USA. This venture provides SSR with seven motorcycles from 135cc to 750cc, two scooters, and an electric scooter and off-road motorcycle, for a full slate of competitive products at great price points. As the year progresses more models will become available.
Two electric QJ Motor vehicles are the G2 scooter and Q2 off road motorcycle. The scooter has performance equivalent to a 125cc scooter, boasting a top speed of 50 mph and a complementing range of 50 miles per charge. Its features also include an LCD dashboard, removeable battery, USB outlet, and Smart Keyless system. The off-road Q2 is capable of a speed of 45 mph and a range of 75 miles. It has 19” wire wheels and an aluminum chassis.
http://qjmotor.ssrmotorsports.com/models/q2.php
SPECIFICATIONS
MOTOR
Motor Type Air-cooled, Center
Rated Power 3,000 watt
Drive Throttle And Go
CHASSIS
Front Suspension Telescopic, 8 inches
Front Travel N / A
Rear Suspension Swingarm, 8.26 inches
Rear Travel N / A
Front Brake Disc
Rear Brake Disc
Front Tire 70 / 100 - 19
Rear Tire 70 / 100 - 19
DIMENSIONS
Overall Length 74.2 inches
Overall Width 30.7 inches
Overall Height 41.3 inches
Seat Height 32 inches
Wheelbase 49.8 inches
Ground Clearance 10.8 inches
Battery** Lithium-ion, 60 v 32 ah
Range Per Charge*** 74 miles
Maximum Speed*** 28 mph
Weight 145 pounds
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Electric Pogo Stick ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_gtcKsuuaM
A better solution is to power your Pogo stick with compressed air:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyxoW21J7M8
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Electric Pogo Stick ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_gtcKsuuaM
A better solution is to power your Pogo stick with compressed air:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyxoW21J7M8
Speaking of compressed air, I heard on the news a couple of days ago that a company in California is proposing to create an electrical power backup system using compressed air that could be utilized at night to fortify California's power grid when needed instead of using large battery packs to perform that task.
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News for people, who had singing and clapping in physics education.
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Actually there is a project in Utah which started out as a giant CAES station using salt caverns but swapped over to H2. The H2 stores many multiples more energy than straight CAES, as it contains both chemical & mechanical stored energy, a "Twofer".
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-agrees-500-mln-loan-guarantee-utah-hydrogen-storage-project-2022-06-08/
https://www.powermag.com/aces-deltas-giant-utah-salt-cavern-hydrogen-storage-project-gets-504m-conditional-doe-loan-guarantee/
https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/08/04/worlds-largest-underground-hydrogen-storage-project/
https://www.latimes.com/environment/newsletter/2021-09-16/hydrogen-hub-utah-los-angeles-chevron-boiling-point
ccc
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ZigOpinion - Why A Royal Enfield Electric ADV Doesn’t Make Sense & What Does; Nov 29, 2022
https://www.zigwheels.com/news-features/ev-news/zigopinion-why-a-royal-enfield-electric-adv-doesnt-make-sense-what-does/47879/#:~:text=The%20brand%20has%20confirmed%20that,from%20the%20upcoming%20Himalayan%20450.
" The amount of EV two-wheeler action witnessed in 2022 has been unprecedented. From established brands rolling out new products and updates, to new players entering the fray, we have been kept busy. However, one brand that hasn’t divulged much details about its EV journey is Royal Enfield. The brand has confirmed that it’s developing a new EV product but it never defined any set timelines or details about said products. However, recently there has been news that it’s working on a new electric ADV bike taking cues from the upcoming Himalayan 450. An electric ADV sounds quite interesting as an idea, but wouldn’t be a commercially viable option and here’s why we think so.
Cost
The biggest hurdle for EV brands is cost and, in particular, the battery cost. With the current lithium-ion prices, over 50 per cent of the retail value of any EV two-wheeler is just the battery price! While it’s easy to think of plonking a larger capacity battery for better performance and range, it comes at the cost of an exorbitant price tag. A very clear and recent example is the Ultraviolette F77, prices for which start at a whopping Rs 3.80 lakh (ex-showroom). For a brand like Ultraviolette, this pricing and product placement works as it always wanted to target the premium spectrum of the Indian two-wheeler market. However, Royal Enfield, despite being an aspirational brand, plays in the Rs 1.50 and Rs 3 lakh price bracket, where it dominates proceedings.
RE bossman, Sid Lal, in a conversation with ZigWheels had mentioned that they can build an electric motorcycle which can deliver performance similar to that of the Interceptor 650. The only thing stopping them is pricing, as such a motorcycle will cost in excess of Rs 10 lakh and he doesn’t see a market for it at this price point. So our bet is that Royal Enfield’s first electric motorcycle will be something not only affordable to buy but also approachable to ride.
The biggest hurdle for EVs, be it two-wheels or four-wheels, is range anxiety, more so for two-wheelers, given their limited real estate. As I mentioned before, the solution for this is larger battery packs and for that one will have to pay a hefty cost. A Royal Enfield electric ADV can’t be a motorcycle that will be restricted to 150-200 km of range, which takes hours to recharge on top of that. This just won’t cut it for any Royal Enfield enthusiast. But, there is a possible solution...
Again, going back to our conversation with Sid Lal, he had hinted that the first Royal Enfield electric bike could have performance similar to that of a 250cc motorcycle, and in our opinion will be a proper urban bike. Now, this motorcycle as an idea makes a lot of sense. This Royal Enfield EV wouldn’t just be affordable but also will be targeting youngsters.
In my opinion, the first Royal Enfield electric motorcycle could have a lot of resemblance to the Hunter 350 as a product and as a concept. With the Hunter 350, Royal Enfield wants to establish a more young and urban customer base. Not a single communication of the Hunter 350 has been about touring or hitting the highways, everything focuses on exploring your neighbourhood. This means shorter distances of say around 100-150 km, which is realistically achievable for an electric motorcycle such as the Tork Kratos and the recently unveiled Matter electric motorcycle.
Owing to the above reasons, I think the first Royal Enfield electric motorcycle will be an urban roadster that will have decent performance, good enough range for your urban commutes/breakfast rides and more importantly will be affordable to a larger audience. However, the electric bike project is still in its early stages of development and is expected to make its official debut by 2025. As for the name, Royal Enfield Electra sounds perfect, doesn’t it?"
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Those comments regarding a possible RE EV bike makes sense, although they will be competing with many similar cheap Chinese models already on the market if those bikes and scooters could be imported into the country without much in the way of import taxes.
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Finally, an electric motorcycle with a name that tells its real purpose, the Amper InCity electric motorbike. However you will have to go by the name, as no performance, battery, or drive train specifications are provided. Still, it does looks like a nice bike with very conventional styling - and (horrors!) no graphics on the bodywork. Watching the short video isn't very helpful, especially as the music is way too loud and certainly unnecessary when trying to promote an EV. Anyway, here is a link to the very sparse illustrated article: https://thepack.news/auper-incity-electric-motorbike-from-auper-motorcycles/
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Finally, an electric motorcycle with a name that tells its real purpose, the Amper InCity electric motorbike.
yes, this tech is ideal for the short local commute.
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I'm wondering if it can exceed the sedate 15-20 MPH shown in the video. Mileage certainly goes up when speeds are kept down. Seeing some footage of one on a 40% grade incline (4/100) would be revealing. That's a lot of tire for that perhaps 1/2"? drive belt.
Not finding any "Auper" references except for that one link...?
Here was an article I chanced across:
https://luxe.digital/lifestyle/cars/best-electric-motorcycles/
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https://www.ft.com/content/11e4e53e-d4b0-4de3-b4eb-28c97b52b0a1
Toyota seems to be worn out too now of throwing mana out of the skies, and goes for EV bikes
https://cyclingindustry.news/toyota-france-starts-selling-douze-cycles-cargo-bikes/
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https://ridermagazine.com/2022/09/12/2023-motorcycle-buyers-guide-new-street-models/
https://ridermagazine.com/2022/05/10/livewire-unveils-s2-del-mar-electric-motorcycle/
Harley-Davidson and its LiveWire brand have introduced the second all-electric model, the 2023 LiveWire S2 Del Mar, which is smaller, lighter, and less expensive than the LiveWire ONE.
The street-tracker is said to produce 80 hp and weigh 431 lbs, yielding a 0-60-mph time of just 3.1 seconds. City range is said to be 110 miles, and highway range will be significantly lower.
LiveWire offered 100 serialized “Del Mar Launch Edition” models (shown above) with an exclusive paint scheme and a unique wheel design for $17,699, but all were sold out in the first 18 minutes. Those who missed the opportunity can get their name on a waiting list for when regular production models ($15,000) are available in the spring of 2023.
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H-D certainly knows what their customers will buy. But I am not one of them. They can keep that "exclusive" paint job. :o
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H-D certainly knows what their customers will buy. But I am not one of them. They can keep that "exclusive" paint job. :o
By the time this will be "market" ready and the accumulated interest on my bank account will be ready to buy one I will be serving society as pint of fossile fuel.
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Jouse guys! HD puts out a limited-range, limited-use, status-symbolly, unobtainable product that few could afford and you get all critical. ::)
Making pithy, anti-consumerist statements such as these classics:
[by the time I could afford one] "I will be serving society as pint of fossil fuel...They can keep that "exclusive" paint job."
I guess we'll have to wait for QJ Motors to buy HD out when HD finally runs out of suckers, I mean customers... :o
After HD spent so much time working with QJ on the 300cc V-twin and the 350cc parallel twin, QJ probably has a good idea of their finance structure and management mindset. Good info to know for a long-game company.
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::) ..wait? I may as well wait until Greta's pay off the villas they live in. I've got ZERO patiens left.
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i ride an ecotric vortex e-bike a couple of times a week and would happily commute to and from work if it were accessible via back streets, within 10 miles and it could recharge for 8 hours while i work. with an e-motorcycle, i would double or triple the range, but forget anything resembling a "road trip". not ready for prime time.
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I wonder what the red line through the "550" indicates. Something other than 550ccs? ;)
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::) ..wait? I may as well wait until Greta's pay off the villas they live in. I've got ZERO patiens left.
There are multiple Gretas now ? Are they cloning her ?
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@ 1112: It's a red word, "SCRAMBLER" I think, but I can't reliably make it out. In the attached EICMA vid the perv filming at about 1:58 gets a real close up of the models calf & knee...and the red lettering. ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyDi6Br99iU
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There are multiple Gretas now ? Are they cloning her ?
The Gretas currently run the world from behind the curtain, the mindset is the same only the mask gets better with age.
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On the electric Trucks...
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/pepsico-roll-out-100-tesla-semis-2023-exec-2022-12-16/
....a sucking business. :D
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The Gretas currently run the world from behind the curtain, the mindset is the same only the mask gets better with age.
? beyond me ! I'm going to the 350 J platform to see if I can understand anything on there.
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It's OBVIOUS that Greta is a Westworld Host (season 2) tasked with controlling a "certain person's" perceived reality...and you can see how. ::)
Couldn't find the "curtain", maybe it's a metaphor?
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A few years ago, pre-pandemic, I was thinking about getting into the e-bicycle business in a modest way. I recall using google maps to see what the supply side of the marketplace was like, by typing in the search term "E-bikes". I saw about 4 of the little red pushpins pop up.
I did this again last night, and it seems there are now 21 shops in the Chicago area offering e-bikes. The marketplace is exploding! This reminds me of what happened here with marijuana dispensaries a few years ago.
Stylewise, I'm liking the Michael Blast Greaser, which is being sold by Bike Berry, who has transitioned from bicycle engines to bicycle motors in a big way.
https://www.bikeberry.com/products/michael-blast-350-500w-t4b-greaser-cafe-style-electric-bike
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" This reminds me of what happened here with marijuana dispensaries a few years ago. "
A hub motor on your hemp framed line of bikes and you are there - a twofer! Just don't get too far into the "weeds"... ;)
https://www.mobitecture.com/portfolio/hemp-bike/
https://bioplasticsnews.com/2019/09/19/hemp-bioplastics-electric-motorbike/
https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/xnito-electric-bike-helmet-hemp
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1191606185/the-pebl-a-hemp-based-four-season-pedal-electric-v
https://www.e-scooter.co/van-eko-be-e/
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decent weather, so took my ecotric vortex out for a ride around town. visited the Stanback (yes, the headache powder guy) Park and the transportation museum (trains, planes and automobiles). range 20 mi, top speed 20mph. heavy for a bicycle, decent but not ideal for trails. much like a slow, stealthy motorcycle.
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H-D's LiveWire company is not quite meeting H-D's original sales projections: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/livewire-cuts-growth-projections-as-del-mar-production-is-delayed
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No wonder if they just sell 100 mile bicycles.
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https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/livewire-cuts-growth-projections-as-del-mar-production-is-delayed
" Personally, when I saw those growth estimates in December of 2021 I was surprised by how aggressive they were. Has any vehicle manufacturer in history ever gone from under 500 vehicles sold in the first year to more than 100,000 five years later? "
Year #1: $17,000 x 500 = $8,500,000 in one year
Year #5: $17,000 x 100,000 = $1,700,000,000 in one year!!! ::)
Assuming maybe 250,000 units sold between year #1 thru year #5.
population of the USA 350,000,000
350,000,000 / 250,000 = 1,400
1 out of 1,400 people would be a proud owner of a new $17,000 electric hog by year 5...really?
New street bike sales nationwide are around 500,000, under 7% of the USAs yearly 8,500,000 registered machines. So HD is going to magically sell 1/5th of the entire new bike volume sold, aceing out all other brands with a $17,000, 100 mile range machine. Are these guys on drugs?
https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocument/bibliography/2225
https://www.statista.com/statistics/183549/us-sales-of-motorcycles-since-1990/#:~:text=U.S.%20sales%20of%20motorcycles%202000%2D2021&text=In%202021%2C%20customers%20in%20the,sales%20during%20the%20last%20decade.
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Apparently H-D believes there is a sucker born every minute and some of them were willing to invest in their new LiveWire company. Those sales projections were completely bogus. I doubt there have been more than 20K highway-capable electric motorcycles sold worldwide in the last 100 years.
BTW, a fellow on the Electric Motorcycle Forum has just picked up a new Energica Experia electric touring bike. His out-the-door price from his dealer A&S in Roseville, CA, was just a bit under $30K. Electric motorcycles right now are not being built for the mass market, unless they are designed for city transportation, like the Chinese manufacture by the millions. Right now electric motorcycles that have similar performance to your typical Royal Enfield are selling at fully-loaded BMW prices. In this economy, you are not going to sell very many at those prices - even if they are made by H-D.
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sure, they're fine for a quick run across town. but the next town and back is iffy at best, and a road trip is out of the question. gasoline simply does it better, and i'm not going to be buying 2 motorcycles or 2 cars in the foreseeable future. electric vehicles are not going to be ready for prime time by my definition for at least another 10 years, and by then i'll be coming up on 80, likely not driving much.
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According to a San Francisco TV news report, Zero, the electric motorcycle manufacturer based near Santa Cruz, CA, is laying off 10% of their worldwide staff, including all of their assembly line workers. :o
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Since we live in the future, stuff like this 8 KW (10 HP) hub motor exist. How about getting a mid-size to large bike sans-engine "roller" titled $100 chassis (old KZ650, Gold Wing, GS750, CB750, Bullet, etc), finagling a couple of these onto it front & rear and filling the center chassis cavity where the original engine lived with your personal flavour of battery? The hub motor control package can be grafted on anywhere it'll fit. Old Toyota & other NiMh battery packs are available from wrecking yards and can be disassembled to consolidate a new battery of the remaining good cells in lieu of mortgaging the farm for all new Lithium.
https://campaign.aliexpress.com/wow/gcp/tesla-pc-new/index?UTABTest=aliabtest375881_486351&_randl_currency=USD&_randl_shipto=US&src=google&src=google&albch=rmkt&acnt=576-373-4425&albcp=16255467009&albag=&slnk=&trgt=&plac=&crea=&netw=x&device=c&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_rmkt&gclid=CjwKCAiA_6yfBhBNEiwAkmXy5_8d1NlmBIBvN0taZG9TDPEqoHb86NWtP6hS3g2PS6K7v5WjIa1-CRoC6XEQAvD_BwE&aff_fcid=f934608fc70c43dca6a81f88d381d668-1676395395689-00049-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=f934608fc70c43dca6a81f88d381d668-1676395395689-00049-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=6768cdf3f33943af9149dc0f9de4e15f&wh_weex=true&wx_navbar_hidden=true&wx_navbar_transparent=true&ignoreNavigationBar=true&wx_statusbar_hidden=true&bt_src=ppc_direct_lp&scenario=pcBridgePPC&productId=3256801404599489&OLP=1084300508_f_group2&o_s_id=1084300508
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E-BIKE FOR THE MOON;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10107811/Motorcycle-concept-allow-future-astronauts-cruise-moon-10mph.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10107811/Motorcycle-concept-allow-future-astronauts-cruise-moon-10mph.html)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/10/19/16/49367625-10107811-image-a-57_1634655963922.jpg)
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Here is part of an article published in my newspaper today regarding electric scooter racing called the "eSC eSkootr Championship". This racing is apparently popular in Europe and it looks like it will be introduced in Emeryville a small city near Oakland in, the San Francisco Bay Area. Apparently it is a very demanding sport.
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E-BIKE FOR THE MOON;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10107811/Motorcycle-concept-allow-future-astronauts-cruise-moon-10mph.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10107811/Motorcycle-concept-allow-future-astronauts-cruise-moon-10mph.html)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/10/19/16/49367625-10107811-image-a-57_1634655963922.jpg)
you wouldn't want to drop that and tear your suit.
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Inflatable anyone ?
https://spectrum.ieee.org/inflatable-ebike-fits-in-a-backpack
(https://spectrum.ieee.org/media-library/photograph-of-a-woman-riding-the-poimo-portable-and-inflatable-mobility-inflatable-e-bike.jpg?id=25591626&width=1200&height=721)
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Inflatable anyone ?
https://spectrum.ieee.org/inflatable-ebike-fits-in-a-backpack
(https://spectrum.ieee.org/media-library/photograph-of-a-woman-riding-the-poimo-portable-and-inflatable-mobility-inflatable-e-bike.jpg?id=25591626&width=1200&height=721)
OMG
A destruction Derby would be more like a pillow fight ;)
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Must have been a very big gun they put to the head to whoever paid for this.
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it is homely.
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it is homely.
When EU7 norm finally comes out most of our issues will be solved. We finally turn into Cuba and will be smoking home grown cigars and drive old junk cars enviously watching our overlords in electric Ferraris passing by. ;)
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Less angst & handwringing, more hard data.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_6495
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Actually an inflatable e-bike might actually be a useful thing when travelling by light aircraft. Not ever remote strip has car rental.
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Actually an inflatable e-bike might actually be a useful thing when travelling by light aircraft. Not ever remote strip has car rental.
i assume there's a folding rigid frame under all that, so not sure what purpose the inflatable bits are supposed to serve. airbag/bumpers?
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When EU7 norm finally comes out most of our issues will be solved. We finally turn into Cuba and will be smoking home grown cigars and drive old junk cars enviously watching our overlords in electric Ferraris passing by. ;)
i'm having some trouble ;) figuring out which economic theory you dislike more. help an old guy out, would you?
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oops double post
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i'm having some trouble ;) figuring out which economic theory you dislike more. help an old guy out, would you?
I'm not sure about you, but in my case some Vodka helps to like most anything.
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" Better a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy " ;D ;D ;D
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Less angst & handwringing, more hard data.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_6495
2035 was agreed to be the date of last ICE's to be manufactured, which is beyond the EU life length expectation. Anyway can't wait to see the retards on TV or YouTube delivering the EU7 solutions.
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This date is meaningless. Nobody will buy an ICE car instead of a BEV after 2027.
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This date is meaningless. Nobody will buy an ICE car instead of a BEV after 2027.
What up with that date? Do you expect no ICE cars to be sold after 2027?
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This year BEVs reached price equality with ICE cars. If you follow the statistical curve, 2027 will be the year when BEVs will be much cheaper in every car category than any ICE car. Even without any incentives.
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This year BEVs reached price equality with ICE cars. If you follow the statistical curve, 2027 will be the year when BEVs will be much cheaper in every car category than any ICE car. Even without any incentives.
Interesting theory, well anything seems possible.
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An article in my newspaper a couple of months ago mentioned that gas stations, especially out in the boondocks, might start closing when EVs start outselling ICE vehicles. That could put a crimp on traveling as I doubt the gas stations, at least in the U.S., will replace their gas pumps with charging stations due to their installation cost and perceived low profitability. Many gas stations away from population centers can barely stay in business due to relatively little traffic and a low margin selling gasoline. I doubt it will be any better selling electricity. The article mentioned one station that installed four charging stations and claimed that it cost $150K to do so. That station was located in downtown Santa Cruz, CA, along Highway 1, as I recall.
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All of this sounds pretty compelling right up to the point that everyone is expected to buy a new EV. Only about 40% of us can withstand an unexpected $1,000 cash outlay. I'm not seeing how 100,000,000 people are going to run out and buy a new car. There's no way that EV's can in the short run replace ICE motors. Maybe over the next 25-50 years, maybe. The Politicos are still elected, they'd have to tell folks that they HAD TO spend $25K - $50K out of pocket and still survive the election cycle. City people can ride busses & take cabs/Uber/etc. Folks in the sticks simply travel too far every day and make too little income for this to be imposed. Affordable 250 mile range battery tech ain't there yet. Besides, the folks in the sticks do a lot of their own maintenance. Some hick trying to keep a 25 year old Prius or Leaf alive is going to be faced with a steep, expensive learning curve he can't afford. A beater Mitsubishi Mirage 44 MPG work car, now that's different...
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. I'm not seeing how 100,000,000 people are going to run out and buy a new car.
They will have to make do with bicycles and E-Scooters.
The good old American adage "if you have to ask the price you do not deserve one" will apply.
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A tesla with over 300 miles range is already cheaper than the average price of sold cars in the US. The next years will show a flood of inexpensive chinese BEVs with excellent quality.
A modern BEV does not need maintenance. Beside window water and tires.
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The Model 3 runs about $45K - $49K and does get around 272 miles by EPA estimate, so close enough. The KBB agrees with Viczena and says the average US car price is $49K.
My go-to-work-car example of the Mirage was just to illustrate that you can acquire the utility of a new car for a modest amount, a bit over 1/3 of the "average" amount. $25,000 worth of Regular 87 octane fuel in a Mirage will carry you about 275,000 miles and take maybe 12-14 years. Most Japanese designed cars will routinely run 300K miles with regular maintenance. You'll likely be sick of driving it by the time you reach the break even point.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/01/the-average-new-car-price-reached-49075-in-december/#:~:text=The%20average%20transaction%20price%20of,increase%20over%2012%20months%20earlier.
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How Much Is a Tesla? Cheaper Than Before—Here’s a Price Breakdown
This is what you can expect to pay for each Tesla model as prices continue to rise.
Feb 15, 2023
https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-much-is-a-tesla/#:~:text=As%20the%20cheapest%20Tesla%20available,the%2Ddoor%20MSRP%20to%20%2443%2C990.
As the cheapest Tesla available, the Model 3 has a lot to offer, including strong range and sleek styling. The rear-drive Standard Range Plus model had already seen its base price jump to as high as $48,190 as of March 2022, but Tesla has undone some of those increases, dropping the out-the-door MSRP to $43,990.
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https://www.kbb.com/mitsubishi/mirage/#:~:text=The%202023%20Mirage%20hatchback%20in,trim%2C%20which%20is%20%24800%20more.
The 2023 Mirage hatchback in the ES trim starts at $16,245, plus a destination charge. The top SE version comes in at $18,145.
Prices for the G4 subcompact sedan are $1,000 more than the hatchback equivalent, except for the top trim, which is $800 more.
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Speaking of electricity, CA is currently proposing to not allow sales of new gas appliances (other than home furnaces, I believe) and plans to force anyone that wants to replace their gas stove, water heater, clothes dryer (all of which I have) and other gas powered appliances to replace them with electric appliances. In my case that would mean updating my electric service from 100 amps to 200 amps and run 240 volt wires to my kitchen, garage and laundry room. Not cheap and electricians are very expensive in my area. That would also impact a very large number of people in the state. If that rule is adopted there is going to be a big revolt - no doubt lead by Republicans. Interestingly, appliance manufacturers have no problem with the plan as they all have electric devices for sale, too.
BTW, the regulators say that going all electric will save money and that heat-pump water heaters and furnaces only cost a little more than gas versions. $3k was mentioned for gas water heaters and only $4K for heat pump water tanks. That sure isn't what my daughter paid last month when she installed a heat pump water heater. It set her back $7K. She also got a bid on a heat pump furnace and the bid was over $20K. So she dropped that idea. Attached is a photo of her new water heater. Not exactly a simple device.
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Heat pumps are basically reverse cycle air conditioners just heating water instead of air, Energy efficient but capital/maintenance intensive.
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A tesla with over 300 miles range is already cheaper than the average price of sold cars in the US. The next years will show a flood of inexpensive chinese BEVs with excellent quality.
A modern BEV does not need maintenance. Beside window water and tires.
The average car sold in the US seems to be rather pricey, you would need to be already an high ranking Bolshevik in the EU Commission in order to afford every couple of years a new one.
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One other little problem with forcing CA state residents to replace their gas water heaters when it starts leaking and needs to be replaced with electric, is that it can take a month or two to line up a plumber to remove the old water heater, cap the gas line, hire an electrician to install an electric line and outlet to power the heater, get the necessary city permits and finally remove the old tank and install the new tank. Meanwhile, you are taking cold showers and washing clothes and dishes with cold water.
All this to make "progressive" politicians feel good about saving the planet from water heater gas emissions. Meanwhile the Russians are destroying the planet and every other thing they think of in Ukraine. I wonder how many gas water heater replacements it will take to equal the emissions created by just one day of war in Ukraine? >:(
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The Russians... ::) ...I read yesterday in the Newspaper that Warsaw is the New Berlin.
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Back on the subject for a moment, here is a short video of an e-scooter race in the UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi7lYenfKlo
Not too exciting in my opinion, except maybe for the riders.
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Here is the latest news regarding lithium-ion solid-state battery development.
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https://gvwire.com/2022/12/16/california-ban-on-gas-appliances-starts-with-jan-1-all-electric-rule/
The new building code doesn’t ban the sale of natural gas appliances outright — that will come in 2030, in a mandate from the California Air Resources Board that is designed to lower the “carbonization” of structures and improve indoor air quality.
The question is what are the PG&E lobbyists positions on this? As direct conversion to heat is more efficient that from heat to electricity then back to heat, net gas sales should go up. There still isn't any Utility grade energy storage for renewable PV and wind, so that resource is still hamstrung. Apparently the "poor people" need to leave the state, but who will be the servants then?
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One small step closer to the batacitor...still someday.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a35367888/the-eternal-promise-of-solid-state-batteries/
IF they ever hit the 10x greater charge density mark that would be a truly functional alternative to petro.
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One small step closer to the batacitor...still someday.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a35367888/the-eternal-promise-of-solid-state-batteries/
IF they ever hit the 10x greater charge density mark that would be a truly functional alternative to petro.
Well, if you've got a clue how to make it work than you can put it into production and whip the pig until it materialises. I wouldn't want to pay for it though, since my faith in your innovativeness is limited. ;) .... could cost just a few billions.
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Back on the subject for a moment, here is a short video of an e-scooter race in the UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi7lYenfKlo
Not too exciting in my opinion, except maybe for the riders.
More enjoyable than the Finnish underground amusement park in the bunker for sure.
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@ Reply #1163: All this batacitor hardware is still firmly in the SciFi realm. AFAIK there's been billions spent already and many more to come, so far with indifferent practical results. We could have been making synfuels and Utility grade renewable energy storage, all of that we already know how to do, but that wouldn't require selling everyone a new car they won't be able to repair and becomes hazmat when it dies or revising the electrical system at great cost to handle real-time transportation energy needs. A really good deal if you are a car builder or an electric utility.
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Its all about efficiency. We know how to make SynFuel (the 3rd reich started it), but it is very inefficient and expensive. So the billions of R&D are good invested. To provide cheaper and more efficient solutions.
Are you able to repair a modern car= AGR, Turbo, electronic injection, variable cam, three dozens of sensors .... ?
Or do you still think that a 8cyl smallblock is all there is?
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Water pump, alternator, spark plugs, belts & hoses, filters, power steering paraphernalia, all the usual stuff. Not relegated only to V8s.
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Read out the fault codes with an OBD2 adapter and your mobile phone is a task a five years old can accomplish those days. Changing the faulty sensor could be tricky, depending on it location, I doubt anyone would want to repair an sensor though.
You now the Swedish invented the O2 sensor. ::) ...my eternal thankfulness is granted.
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Less angst & handwringing, more hard data.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_6495
The UK isn't in the EU now so do we have to obey these EU rules ?!
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This year BEVs reached price equality with ICE cars. If you follow the statistical curve, 2027 will be the year when BEVs will be much cheaper in every car category than any ICE car. Even without any incentives.
I wouldn't bet on that. In fact I wouldn't bother planning too far into the future on anything ,Putin might have blown us all up well before 2027.
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And when the power goes out due to storms, equipment failure, or whatever, you are up the creek without any heat, EV charging, or watching the dramatic and scary news on TV. ::)
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I don't trust this sort of putting all your eggs in one basket approach to electric vehicles- by governments banning alternatives.Get you by the balls and then start screwing you. (excuse the metaphors )
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A far better way of implementing EVs would be to standardize a modular battery pack that was used by all EVs (larger EVs might have two or three) and have EV service stations where you quickly swap out your depleted battery pack for a fully charge battery pack for a small fee.
Naturally any form of standardization will cause issues with the libertarians in the US. However this would have solved two issues, slow charging times and also the high expense every 5 or 10 years of replacing the battery pack.
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Why would I need to swap out a battery pack? It will last for over 1 mill mile. After that the rest of the car is shurely in need to be swapped out.
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Why would I need to swap out a battery pack? It will last for over 1 mill mile. After that the rest of the car is shurely in need to be swapped out.
Last for over 1 million miles,are you sure ?!
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@ Reply #1172: In the 40's thru 60's when actual electrical engineers ran the electrical Utilities they has a diversity of power sources for exactly that reason. Baseload power was supplied by the cheapest fuel available. At one time before wind & solar renewables showed up SCE had Bunker C crude oil fired units, Hydro, natural gas, coal and nuclear. It was pretty hard to squeeze SCEs fuel supply and extort a higher price. Those guys all died off and were replaced by "investors" & games theorists, to the detriment of the rate payer.
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Zero claimed that my 2018 bike's battery pack would last for 380,000 miles before its capacity was reduced to 80%. Frankly, I didn't believe that for a minute. ::)
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If it made it 200K miles that'd be enough. That'd be 20 years for a lot of the driving public. By then ennui, road salt & tech advances would make it likely that it'd be sent to the knacker for "recycling". Hopefully actual recycling, not just having ragamuffin kids burn the car on a beach and later rake out the solidified puddles of metal with fingers & sticks in a "soylent Green" manner.
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Last for over 1 million miles,are you sure ?!
Yes. I quote tesla.
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You mean like they recycle ICE cars?
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We generally crush them into cubes and ship them to Chinese steel mills first. Occasionally people will build fences or artwork installations. Of course no one would just stack hundreds of leaking, rotting cars on a piece of farm land and start a "pik-a-part operation. ICE vehicles are mostly steel & inert plastic with a single medium size lead acid battery and a couple quarts of various petro oils.
I'm hoping that there will be dedicated salvage operations for the EV batteries and large power control electronics, at least materials recovery. Mostly we treat discardable residential, commercial & industrial waste the same manner as the hunter-gatherers of 100,000 BC did, just start a midden pile somewhere and walk away.
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In europe the old cars get crusherd into little pieces and the materials are assorted automatically afterwards.
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Over here we say "that's impossible" or "that's infeasible" whenever we're asked to not poison the ground we live on by idiotically dumping waste on it. Business mostly calls the shots based on short term profitability, all hail private enterprise. Glad to see that at least someone has 2 neurons to rub together as regards to resource recovery. What did you think about Norfolk Southern simply burning an entire derailed chemical train in the middle of an inhabited area to minimize a chemical clean up? The railroads in general here have a lot of clout. The local elected "leadership" seems to be all good with that corporate short-term-low-cost option. "What's good for Business is Good for Amurrika".
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Yes. I quote tesla.
Wow,so electric car batteries will last almost forever !
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Wow,so electric car batteries will last almost forever !
They only talk about miles - not years.
It is likely many car battery will expire due to age rather than having too many miles/recharge-cycles.
Tesla guarantees its batteries for eight years or 240,000kms, whichever comes first, on the Model S and Model X.
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Car batteries degrade by charge cycles, not by age. Do you know any ICE producer, who guarantees for 240.000 km and 8 years?
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I've yet to drive a Toyota or Honda that wouldn't go 300,000 miles with regular basic maintenance.
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With warranty? If Tesla gives 8 years and 240.000km it will at least run 16 years and 480.000km. And more.
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Warranties are sold because the dealerships make money on them. The MTBF exceeds the warrantee payouts. If you are looking for transportation, a Civic or Corolla with 60K - 90K is a pretty safe & affordable bet. My 95 Tacoma with 230K still has zero carbon or oil inside the tailpipe, these things are hammers if driven sensibly & maintained.
16 years and 300K miles would put a Tesla on par with that. Other than having eejits drive then into things, what kinds of failures do they have? Are the power electronics holding up? Is it mostly peripheral systems? How do they tolerate road salt?
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No Dealership makes money with Tesla. I know the guy who drove his Tesla Model S 1 Mill Milles. With nearly no failures beside 2 small sensors. And he still drives to reach 2 Mill km.
A Corolla with 90k Miles is worth nothing, A Tesla with 90k Miles is still expensive.
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Hmmm...over here a 20 year old Corolla with 90K on the clock is running $6K to $10K on AutoTrader. Your definition of nothing seems to be different than mine. ;D
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So they are worth nothing. Especially compared to a Tesla with same mileage.
BTW I looked up the price for a 2002 Corolla. Around 4-5k average. In europe much less.
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BTW - I used Auto Trader and searched Corolla nationwide, machines 2003 & older, under 100,000 miles. 33 results, only 3 machines under $5K, the rest from $7K to $12K. I suggest you find a cheap exporter for Corollas, a guy might make some money buying them at $4K.
Also - Tesla didn't even begin selling cars until 2009. A nationwide search for Tesla vehicles up to 2011 yielded exactly three 2010 results in the nosebleed category, with mileages from 6K to 28K. These are wallet-display status cars, not work cars.
The Model 3 appears in 2017. Most of these under $30K are generally 50K to 130K miles and 2019 or earlier. Corollas from 2017 - 2019 run $14K to $25K and are generally under 60K miles.
If money is no object, and it sounds like it isn't, it really doesn't matter what you drive. If you work for a living at a less than a 6 figure level, maybe a Tesla isn't at the top of the daily driver list.
https://tesla-info.com/guide/tesla-end-of-warranty-checklist.php
When does the warranty expire?
The warranty on a car is split into four parts:
A 4 year, 50k mile "whole car" warranty covering almost everything. Tesla class a number of items as wear and tear and things like paint will be harder to get warranty work done as time passes as a result.
An 8 year warranty on the battery and motors. This warranty was unlimited miles on the Model S and Model X until 2020, however that warranty had no degradation limit and was largely only protected battery failure. Since then, and on the Model 3 and Model Y there has been a mileage limit on the warrant that caries by model. This mileage capped warranty has a maximum degradation threshold of approx. 30% (or the battery should retain 70%) although Tesla are excluding degradation caused by software updates from those calculations.
There are a number of specific warranty items that Tesla cover either for safety of legal reasons. They have extended the warranty on the original MCU found in the Model S and Model X, and they have certain longer warranties on the restraint system.
Don't forget you may also have additional legal protection that may transcend any written warranty Tesla offer. This will differ from country to country, and can be much harder to claim against, sometimes requiring legal action, but this should not be forgotten. Any written warranty from Tesla cannot undermine your statutory legal protection.
https://pimpmyev.com/blogs/speed-style-carbon-fiber/common-issues-with-tesla-vehicles-the-solutions-warranty-information-and-consumer-rights
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I have no interest in old Corollas at all. I leave that to you. Soon there will be a lot of them on the market, when nobody beside you wants them anymore. You even can paint them all in blue. So you will be in heaven.
Never drove a better and cheaper car than a Tesla. If I do not only count price, but also maintenance, energy costs and resale value.
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No Dealership makes money with Tesla. I know the guy who drove his Tesla Model S 1 Mill Milles. With nearly no failures beside 2 small sensors. And he still drives to reach 2 Mill km.
A Corolla with 90k Miles is worth nothing, A Tesla with 90k Miles is still expensive.
I million miles going on to 2 million miles - where the hell does this bloke drive to ? !
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I million miles going on to 2 million miles - where the hell does this bloke drive to ? !
Around Europe. I met him in Norway, when he was on the way to the nordkap. Winter, -30 deg Celsius.
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You should check it on plausibility, 2 million miles? If he averaged 25 miles per hour, it would take how long? About ~9 years non stop driving, charging pit stops not included?
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I said that he drove 1 mill miles . He reached it Jan 2022. And is now heading to 2 mill km.
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Still I would not want to spend that time in it, better let it go alone on autopilot for the scientific experiments sake.
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The numbers I find imply that an original 2013 85 KWHr battery equipped Model S driven 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year would have to average about 55 MPH/88KPH for 8 hours a day (plus a nominal 1 hour mid-day recharge) for 9 years to hit 1,000,000 miles/1,600,000 km. As Derottone says, that would take real dedication, you are getting into Greyhound Bus numbers. Tire changes would be like Indy pit stops, and you'd better not get sick or go on vacation.
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The numbers I find imply that an original 2013 85 KWHr battery equipped Model S driven 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year would have to average about 55 MPH/88KPH for 8 hours a day (plus a nominal 1 hour mid-day recharge) for 9 years to hit 1,000,000 miles/1,600,000 km. As Derottone says, that would take real dedication, you are getting into Greyhound Bus numbers. Tire changes would be like Indy pit stops, and you'd better not get sick or go on vacation.
I tend to agree ,REAL dedication !
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A California state legislator just introduced two bills that would affect EVs. One would require that all new EVs be sold at prices not exceeding MSRP. The other bill would require that all EVs be able to incorporate technology that would allow them to power a home when the electrical power goes out - something of a concern any time of the year in California. ::)
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This is an interesting electric city bike that has a neat folding system so that you can bring it into an elevator and park it in your high-rise apartment. Just be sure to clean the wheels first before rolling across a rug. Guess what? They are trolling for investor dollars. So you can expect their performance claims to be a bit exaggerated:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXbhW2k-nok
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To me the trolling for investors dollars seems pretty pointless, unless you've made a few millions somehow be it a scam nobody will thrust you with their dollars.
It's not the prettiest and looks cheap, the removable battery and available range seem useful though. A battery that can be removed and charged in your home over night seems like an added asset in any city. If the bike gets stolen over night you'll still have your battery which will probably be the largest cost factor to the bike.
Some "serious" company may pick up that idea soon.
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" If the bike gets stolen over night you'll still have your battery which will probably be the largest cost factor to the bike. "
+1! ;D ;D ;D
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Reply #1202: The PHEV pathway is pretty well trodden, so no tech hurdles there. PG&E is offering a free house meter that has a built-in "5KV back-up power swap over relay" for customers with generators. That would run house fans, refrigerators, lights, microwave and/or a top burner on an electric range; way better than nothing. a 50 KWHr battery coupled with suitable inverter gives you 10 hours at full load, likely 48 hours if you are judicious in what you run.
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Reply #1202: The PHEV pathway is pretty well trodden, so no tech hurdles there. PG&E is offering a free house meter that has a built-in "5KV back-up power swap over relay" for customers with generators. That would run house fans, refrigerators, lights, microwave and/or a top burner on an electric range; way better than nothing. a 50 KWHr battery coupled with suitable inverter gives you 10 hours at full load, likely 48 hours if you are judicious in what you run.
Last week my daughter installed a 6kW solar panel system on her roof and a 10kWh N-Phase storage battery. The bill for the work came to around $50K and took 4 days to complete. If the system had a 50kWh battery instead, the cost would have likely been another $30K or so. Even though the system pumps some power back into PG&E's system it would really take a long time to make the solar panels and battery pencil out. However, the system sure worked great when the power went out a couple of days ago. The system transitioned to the backup battery without them even noticing until they received a call from PG&E telling them that their power would be back on soon. The backup battery will run their household electrical demands for 7 hours, provided that they don't use their electric stove. They have a heat-pump water heater, but the furnace is still using gas.
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Last week my daughter installed a 6kW solar panel system on her roof and a 10kWh N-Phase storage battery. The bill for the work came to around $50K and took 4 days to complete. If the system had a 50kWh battery instead, the cost would have likely been another $30K or so. Even though the system pumps some power back into PG&E's system it would really take a long time to make the solar panels and battery pencil out. However, the system sure worked great when the power went out a couple of days ago. The system transitioned to the backup battery without them even noticing until they received a call from PG&E telling them that their power would be back on soon. The backup battery will run their household electrical demands for 7 hours, provided that they don't use their electric stove. They have a heat-pump water heater, but the furnace is still using gas.
I installed a 6.6KW system here with microinverters on each panel for around $us7000 (Aussie 10k) and a storage battery (not sure of size) was an additional $us7000 if I had wanted one. Seems solar here is much cheaper.
One difference here is I am pretty sure they force grid connected solar to shutdown during power outages so there is no chance of power feeding back into the grid and creating safety issues.
Even with a battery you may still lose power during an outage unless you go off-grid entirely. Going off grid is another issue altogether, in some rural areas the local councils are pro-coal and anti-renewable and allegedly in some cases have attempted declaring houses that go off-grid as unfit for human habitation due to failure to connect to required utilities and services. Not sure how common that is or if the stories ae ven true though.
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I installed a 6.6KW system here with microinverters on each panel for around $us7000 (Aussie 10k) and a storage battery (not sure of size) was an additional $us7000 if I had wanted one. Seems solar here is much cheaper.
One difference here is I am pretty sure they force grid connected solar to shutdown during power outages so there is no chance of power feeding back into the grid and creating safety issues.
....
I'm pretty sure it requires a ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) just like when having a backup generator. When grid power goes down the switch isolates your house from the grid system for the safety of the repair crews.
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An electric trike! ;D
https://sondorsx.com/pages/sondors-ev
Sondors 3 Wheel EV prototype drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZnifrNXLig
https://www.osvehicle.com/sondors-electric-car-coming-soon/
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Reply #1208 & 1209: Residential Grid Tie inverter systems require a stable system 50/60 HZ sine wave to the inverter for about 2 minutes or they won't come online. They (home inverters) also can't possibly carry system loads, having at best 2KW to maybe 7KW output, they'd just over amp & shut down anyway. The transfer switch requirement is just a way to add expense and discourage implementation as all grid tie equipment is built to require a stable system sine wave to be present, otherwise it has nothing to synchronize to.
Stand-Alone PV systems require a battery bank. The Sunny Boy Sunny Island is a representative example of type. There are others that function as both an "Islanded System" and a "Grid Tie" system, with a bit more complexity.
<< https://www.sma-america.com/products/battery-inverters/sunny-island-4548-us-6048-us >>
Sounds like GlennF has a DIY PV/Inverter system. The panels new now are under $1 per watt, the inverters are plug 'n play, companies like Ironridge provide racking & P&Z ready engineered plans online.
<< https://www.ironridge.com/ >>
Grid Tie PV is readily accessible to the home handy guy. Engineered racks, cheap panels and microinverters make installs easy and modular. Add it in as you can afford it, any outbuilding becomes a "mount".
"String Inverters" are maybe a bit cheaper per unit but require more planning.
A fellow could add PV panels and microinverters that were connected to the largest house load using the HVAC compressor 240V relay output. The PV would operate invisibly only when the compressor was running. :o
Routine or intermittent power outage TV, refrigerator and lighting loads are most cost-effectively supplied thru a cheap $300 5KW generator. A 10KW to 13KW generator will allow HVAC loads to be carried. An all off-grid effort requires hella battery storage and inverter capacity ($$$) so you REALLY have to be willing to do what's required. 10 gallons of fuel per year to keep $500 worth of freezer stored food from rotting is cheap.
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You just cannot resist scratching together google infos to say something to any topic.
Gladly ChatGPT does it much better than you. And the best : Only on demand.
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You just cannot resist scratching together google infos to say something to any topic.
Gladly ChatGPT does it much better than you. And the best : Only on demand.
At least he is not "improving" my shit.
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You might be interested in these photos of the equipment that was installed at my daughter's home to get the new solar panels to operate. I might add that my daughter went with a local solar installation company, instead of one of the big firms, and they were so busy that it took four months to get the work done after signing the contract. BTW, the main panel had to be replaced with a "solar ready" panel. Just the new panel cost $850. The government wants everyone to go solar in CA, but it sure is expensive. While rebates and incentives are advertised all the time, actually getting them requires jumping through a lot of paperwork hoops and takes so much effort that many people might give up after a while - which might be the idea of these bureaucratic programs. ::)
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Reply #1212: It's amazing what repeatedly comes out of your mouth. The poured-in-concrete conclusions you reach about others based on imaginary information must have made for some interesting times after work.
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Paint it blue. Maybe it becomes true.
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R230 @ #1214: That's some nice hardware! It's always pricier to create a seamlessly automated system than just a "rough 'n ready" one. That's a nice install which should require little if any owner interaction.
Here's PGE's instructions for their auto transfer meter. On the user end you need to be able to start and plug in your back up power generator, but there is no requirement for a seperate power panel or seperate auto-transfer switch. This gives you a legal way to run a generator to partially power up your home when there's a powerline outage. PGE Smartmeters have a set of remotely operated 200 A contacts inside them to allow them to disconnect service without sending out a technician to get yelled at/attacked/dog bit/shot at. The BPTM just uses a set of "back contacts" on the auto relay to connect your existing panel to a local receptacle that is small generator friendly. The Owner gets to legally use his existing electrical system & PGE is the good guy because they saved you the expense of installing extra equipment. You'll need to shut off any heavy house loads like the HVAC, electric water heater, etc., and I'd probably open any main panel PV system breakers too.
The BPTM is designed to automatically switch over to generator power if there
is a loss of utility power and a generator is properly connected and started. In addition, the BPTM will automatically switch back to the utility power once it has been restored.
1. When there is a power outage, turn off all the circuits on the main breaker panel in the house.
2. If you have solar panels (PV system), make sure that the disconnect between the inverter and the circuit breaker panel is open (OFF).
3.Start your generator, making sure that there is plenty of fuel. Follow all safety guidelines supplied with the generator.
4. The BPTM will automatically disconnect the utility lines and connect the generator lines to the house’s main circuit breaker panel in about 14 seconds.
5. Turn on the appropriate circuits (that can be serviced by the generator) on the main breaker panel. The circuits that are turned on should not exceed 7200W.
6. When utility power is restored, the BPTM will first disconnect the generator power for about 6 seconds, then connect the utility power back to the main circuit breaker panel. You will notice a slight flickering of the lights when this happens.
7.Once the BPTM has connected the utility power back to the house, the generator can be stopped and, if you prefer, disconnected from the BPTM
https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/save-energy-money/savings-programs/backup-power-transfer-meter-manual.pdf
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My daughter had to have a smart meter installed before the solar panel installation was approved by PG&E. I was told that when the power goes off, the system is completely automatic when it switches to battery power. If you are interested in such things, attached are copies of the wiring circuit diagrams and information stickers located inside the equipment boxes.
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Enphase makes top-drawer hardware, should run flawlessly for a long time! :)
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Here is a short article about a X-country ride on a E bike. A lot of the California crowd, here, knows Thad.
https://ridermagazine.com/2013/06/18/moto-electra-sets-coast-to-coast-record/ (https://ridermagazine.com/2013/06/18/moto-electra-sets-coast-to-coast-record/)
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Motorcycle.com reviews the 2022 BMW CE 04 electric scooter: https://www.motorcycle.com/features/2022-bmw-ce-04-scooter-mini-review.html
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R230 @ #1221: Are there any current e-bikes/scooters that carry a spare? The rear wheel on that BMW looked hopeful but the front end didn't seem amenable to a bolt-on wheel. At +530 pounds already (fully charged... ;D) I'm not sure why the front suspension wasn't single sided as well. The old-skool Vespa/Bajaj Chetak models sported this handy feature.
AFAICT this scooter's running gear should be readily replicable with junkyard Prius bits. I'm amazed there isn't a Chinese "Servicar" or sidehack version already. Having all the battery weight low seems a great idea for a practical transporter. Way easier in a scooter or recumbent design than in a standard MC configuration.
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R230 @ #1221: Are there any current e-bikes/scooters that carry a spare? The rear wheel on that BMW looked hopeful but the front end didn't seem amenable to a bolt-on wheel. At +530 pounds already (fully charged... ;D) I'm not sure why the front suspension wasn't single sided as well. The old-skool Vespa/Bajaj Chetak models sported this handy feature.
AFAICT this scooter's running gear should be readily replicable with junkyard Prius bits. I'm amazed there isn't a Chinese "Servicar" or sidehack version already. Having all the battery weight low seems a great idea for a practical transporter. Way easier in a scooter or recumbent design than in a standard MC configuration.
I can't think of any electric scooters or motorcycles that lug around a spare tire. Electric motor scooters and motorcycles do their best to try to lower weight and cost. They don't even provide a can of Fix-A-Flat. If you get a flat you are on your own - as usual. ;)
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I can't think of any electric scooters or motorcycles that lug around a spare tire. Electric motor scooters and motorcycles do their best to try to lower weight and cost. They don't even provide a can of Fix-A-Flat. If you get a flat you are on your own - as usual. ;)
Ural? ;)
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I am pretty sure the proposed electric Ural sidecar rig does not have a spare tire fitted standard - though there is plenty of scope to fit one.
It is also likely that sanctions have killed any current release plans. We may not see one in the wild for a long time- if ever.
(https://comoto.imgix.net/blog_content_image/image/55088/gallery/Gardiner_Electric_Chair.jpg)
(https://imageio.forbes.com/blogs-images/joshmax/files/2018/11/Ural-Electric-guy-taking-pic-1200x801.jpg?format=jpg&width=960)
(https://imageio.forbes.com/blogs-images/joshmax/files/2018/11/Ural-Seattle-GOOD-1200x801.jpg?format=jpg&width=960)
(https://imageio.forbes.com/blogs-images/joshmax/files/2018/11/DSC00279-1200x788.jpg?format=jpg&width=960)
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Electric Ural, that sure is beyond super. I didn't know they had so much off-road trails in the state of Washington anyway.
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Electric Ural, that sure is beyond super. I didn't know they had so much off-road trails in the state of Washington anyway.
The side hack is actually the Mother of All Batteries with a wheel ;)
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An Electric Ural? Another shocking development from Russia - obviously a product of a spark of genius...R.E. will really have to amp up their game. Time for the Electrik01 to illuminate the future in a flash of inspiration.
https://www.autocarindia.com/bike-news/scoop-first-picture-of-royal-enfield-electric-bike-emerges-426434
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'I am pretty sure the proposed electric Ural sidecar rig does not have a spare tire fitted standard - though there is plenty of scope to fit one.
It is also likely that sanctions have killed any current release plans. We may not see one in the wild for a long time- if ever.'
Good - stop Russian shite coming into the country !
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Urals, caviar, wheat, petro products & MZ Skorpions are welcome, their Zircons and Sukhoi Su-57 they need to keep on the launch racks & air fields. The Russian people aren't the enemy, their self-promoting Upper Management is. Kinda like here.
Here's a truly WTF moment...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tucker-carlson-capitol-riot-videos-b2288486.html
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as much as i appreciate calling insurrectionist traitors for what they are, i'm not sure this is the proper place.
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But how do you REALLY feel? ;D ;D ;D
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The scummy scams just increased the light bill by some 60%, not surprisingly the nat gas prices are back down where they've been before the COVID and Ukraine war madness.
Solar power and some battery will fix it. 8)
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I just heard a report on the CBS radio network national news that some Germans were protesting the latest U.S. arms donation to Ukraine, claiming that it would just make the war last longer. They say that NATO is the aggressor in the war and Russia is just trying to defend itself. Sounds kind of familiar. ::) I wonder what news channel they are watching? It must be the Russian comedy network.
And speaking of gas. Our local radio news is reporting that everyone's gas bill for this month will be up due to the cold weather, because (wait for it): too much demand, low gas supplies in storage, supply chain issues and the increased cost of natural gas due to (self-imposed?) inflation. When it comes to raising prices for anything, this is the broken record that is used to justify the increase. They push the button and out comes the list of excuses. >:(
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Russia Today is banned from TV, maybe hearing constantly only one point of view makes people assume the opposite is true. ;)
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I just heard a report on the CBS radio network national news that some Germans were protesting the latest U.S. arms donation to Ukraine, claiming that it would just make the war last longer. They say that NATO is the aggressor in the war and Russia is just trying to defend itself. Sounds kind of familiar. ::) I wonder what news channel they are watching? It must be the Russian comedy network.
And speaking of gas. Our local radio news is reporting that everyone's gas bill for this month will be up due to the cold weather, because (wait for it): too much demand, low gas supplies in storage, supply chain issues and the increased cost of natural gas due to (self-imposed?) inflation. When it comes to raising prices for anything, this is the broken record that is used to justify the increase. They push the button and out comes the list of excuses. >:(
In germany we have the same kind of one sided lefty state propaganda media as in the US. Independent thinking is out, supervised thinking is woky in.
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" In germany we have the same kind of one sided propaganda media as in the US. Independent thinking is out, supervised thinking is woky in."
Multiple source, multiple country news channels would be difficult to completely control messaging on. I guess RT has accomplished its goal.
Here's a guy that is on a popular US alternative propaganda media that is on record declaring he doesn't believe in his own channels reporting. The money is good I guess. Infotainment vs. information.
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And how many on the other side? Looks more like a avalanche.
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@ Reply #1238: Other side of what? Right now Tucker is trying to find 5 minutes of film footage out of 40,000 hours that doesn't show insurrectionists climbing the Capitol building like a swarm of ants. Footage that also shows the safe-rooms and escape tunnels of the Capitol building in detail. Footage now that it's released will lead to a rather large pile of bodies (martyrs?) the next time Trumps minions swarm another Government building. When your Legislators can't safely leave a building, you have to neutralize the threat. McCarthy apparently had a big debt to pay. With luck he'll pay another in Gitmo, along with his many friends.
Germany itself just recently stepped on the neck of a domestic Right Wing group. When people stop using verifiable information in their decision making process, they start making bad decisions. Dozens of different foreign & domestic news agencies aren't all in cahoots or under some shadowy central command. If there was actual control like that there certainly wouldn't be this much Sturm und Drang going on, just some fresh open trenches and more empty houses.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/germany-coup-arrests-reichsbuerger-heinrich/
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" In germany we have the same kind of one sided propaganda media as in the US. Independent thinking is out, supervised thinking is woky in." people can always think for themselves
Multiple source, multiple country news channels would be difficult to completely control messaging on.
I like to think we have multiple news sources and don't have state controlled media brainwashing the public with Putin's propaganda like they have in Russia.
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just more of putin's disinformation campaign. putin has had a hard-on to dismember NATO since the soviet union collapsed under the weight of its own corruption, and nothing much has changed, the current regime is a kleptocracy too, and is foundering. authoritarianism comes in at least two colors, red AND black, and ultimately the color doesn't matter, it's the authoritarianism that matters.
when russian troops leave ukraine, including crimea, then maybe we can talk about who is invading whom, who is the aggressor, and who is committing war crimes. putin can project his fascist wet dreams onto zelensky, but it's pretty clear who the imperialist is here. and trump... trump is obviously acting as his good close personal friend's and (wannabe) despot putin's agent. if he'd somehow pulled off his treasonous coup and overthrown constitutional due process here, no US aid would be forthcoming to resist the "really smart guy" and russia might well have succeeded in overrunning ukraine and would now have it's eye on the rest of the former soviet bloc, despite its rampant corruption and incompetence.
it can be argued that russia annexing ukraine is precisely backwards. russia was largely semi-nomadic pastoralists herding sheep and horses on the steppes until the varangians (former vikings, much like the normans in france) came from ukraine and founded the house of rurik. so it might actually be more historically accurate for ukraine to annex russia. or maybe russia should go back under the mongol yoke? with that long shared land border, russia should likely be more concerned about who's got their back. fortunately for them, china appears to be focused more on the south china sea. appears. for now. i wonder, if china attacked russia, would the west help russia?
and i still suspect this sort of content belongs somewhere other than "e-bike developments". yes, the universe is an entirety and everything bears on everything else, but... where's admin?
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Maybe admin could transfer him a layin's excellent last post to the Ukraine thread.
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Maybe admin could transfer him a layin's excellent last post to the Ukraine thread.
i could copy-and-paste it there, but i can't delete it here. oh, well.
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Revzilla reviews the Sondors electric motorcycle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqBy8uD6Qc0
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i could copy-and-paste it there, but i can't delete it here. oh, well.
You don't need to delete it.
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Plausable deniability is all you ever need.
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" I didn't do it, nobody saw me, you can't prove anything. " The definitive Bart Simpson defense.
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My motto was: "Whatever someone did that you didn't like, I didn't do it." ;)
And if you work for the government your motto when thinking of politicians is: Treat them like mushrooms, feed them manure and keep them in the dark. ::)
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And if you work for the government your motto when thinking of politicians is: Treat them like mushrooms, feed them manure and keep them in the dark. ::)
Where politicians are concerned ... "the actual facts of the matter, whilst no doubt very interesting, are totally irrelevant to any decisions".
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Where politicians are concerned ... "the actual facts of the matter, whilst no doubt very interesting, are totally irrelevant to any decisions".
Very true. Their decisions are based upon how much money the decision will make for them and their friends - and occasionally if it will give them a warm and fuzzy feeling that they are helping the "under-served" population. ::)
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Certainly true of McCarthy.
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Here is the latest Sondors MetaCycle review article. This one mentions a failed IPO and employee layoffs, before launching into the ride review: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2022-sondors-metacycle-electric-motorcycle-review
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Here is the latest Sondors MetaCycle review article. This one mentions a failed IPO and employee layoffs, before launching into the ride review: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2022-sondors-metacycle-electric-motorcycle-review
What a surprise, I don't know of anyone who might actually consider to buy one, appart of your doughter maybe, to increase the collection. ;)
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On the plus side the Sondor has a nice hole through it you can store your handbag or drugs or whatever.
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Once you dump all that pesky radioactive shielding - nuclear is clearly Nuclear is the way to go.
(https://cdn.autoportal.com/img/news/513/gallery/big/270314b4b714da77773947d836ed045a.jpg)
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What an old, sad story - The rich get richer, the poor get ground down even harder. Africa's been exploited by "colonizers" for about 500 years now, only the names change. Maybe we need to call it "Blood Cobalt"? Tesla can lead here, Musk has a platform & "plenty monies" already, he'd never miss a meal.
Green energy 'profiting on back of Congo miners'
https://www.bbc.com/news/science_and_environment
More than 70% of the world’s cobalt is extracted in Kolwezi. Human rights campaigners are calling on companies to increase the pay for impoverished miners in the Democratic Republic of Congo who are digging up cobalt - an essential commodity in the production of electric cars.
Huge mining companies engaged in the switch to greener energy are making multi-billion dollar profits, while the Congolese workers digging for cobalt are falling further into poverty.
That is the warning from two human rights groups - the UK’s Raid, and Cajj, which is based in southern DR Congo near Kolwezi where most of the world's cobalt is mined.
Food prices there have been soaring and the campaign groups say most miners are being paid much less than the $480 (£390) a month they need to support their families.
They want the mining giants, including those from Europe and China that operate DR Congo’s industrial mines, to pay more, and electric vehicle companies to end contracts with cobalt suppliers exploiting miners.
“The switch to clean energy must be a just transition, not one that leaves Congolese workers in increasingly desperate living conditions,” Cajj’s Josué Kashal said in a statement.
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The Nordic Overlords will fix it, as it is they're capable of mining at negative cost just by order and soon to make engines that pour fuel into your tank.
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Attached is a NY Times article regarding the Chinese embracing sodium battery technology and manufacturing.
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Good article! Durability & cost are always issues with batteries. The disadvantages of sodium-ion are low energy density and low output power; not as useful for vehicle use. If they are really cheap, there may be some Utility use.
Hydrogen still has the nod for utility use, it would be difficult to stockpile enough batteries to store utility-useful levels of power. Blending H2 with NatGas provides painless renewable-sourced H2 capacity and reduced carbon emissions. Compressed H2 stored in salt domes or oil wells can service dedicated generation. These chemical energy storage methodologies work and produce the quantities of power needed for modern life.
Mechanical H2 storage has a very long service life, 60 - 100 years for the piping & valves, infinite for the oil well or dome. Conversion generation equipment can flexibly operate on natgas, natgas/H2 blend or even pure H2 if specifically designed for it. Gas & steam turbine generators can run 5-10 years between blade & bearing maintenance. Generator lifespans exceeding 100 years are seen Hydro applications. Maintenance and monitoring are the key elements to reliability.
Sodium ion battery lifetime is 5000+ cycles to 80% of capacity, so maybe 20 years, not counting electrical cable connection maintenance. A battery requires dedicated inverter equipment, most of which seems to run about 20 years. After that you toss them. Batteries fit best into the profit maximizing scheme of Utility Capital spend strategy. Replacing everything every 20 years is a real money maker for them. Routine maintenance, not so much.
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Back to the subject of real e-bikes for a moment: Yesterday I was reading the Half Moon Bay Review (a weekly newspaper for the town, located along the Pacific Ocean coast about 40 miles south of San Francisco). It contained an article regarding the town's city council prohibiting any type of electric bike or scooter along the public Coastal Trail within their city limits. This was in response to their staff's recommendation that all e-bikes, Class 1, 2 and 3, and e-scooters be allowed on the trail, with a speed limit of 15mph. The council felt it was too dangerous for people to be speeding along on e-bikes, but it would be OK for speeding bicycle riders to access the trail, along with jogging pedestrians and the occasional horse rider (apparently). ::)
But the funny thing is that the trail runs through three enforcement jurisdictions within HMB's town limits - the city, the county and the state park system. Under the latest regulations, you could not ride an e-bike on the portion of the trail covered by the town's ordinances, but you can ride a Class 1 e-bike within the State Beach area and the county permits all types of e-bikes and scooters, with no limits other than speed) within their portions of the Coastal Trail. Meanwhile the e-bike rider, who many times is elderly, will have no idea if they are obeying the law or not, depending on which section of the trail they happen to be on.
The other funny comment is that none of the agencies involved have the resources to actually enforce the e-bike regulations or speed limits on the trail. Another case of the government at work trying to keep everyone safe from having fun and enjoying life. :o
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" none of the agencies involved have the resources to actually enforce the e-bike regulations or speed limits on the trail. "
Sounds more like some "Wokester" wishful thinking, unencumbered by any practical, real-world experience. Allowing no nonhuman power transport on the trails sorta rules out horses too. Problem is that horse owners generally aren't poor and they vote. Was this just another unfunded mandate or maybe only a poorly thought out ideer? In any event, it reflects poorly on the originator.
New Rule: A Unified Theory of Wokeness | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=schuzjknjYE
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" none of the agencies involved have the resources to actually enforce the e-bike regulations or speed limits on the trail. "
Sounds more like some "Wokester" wishful thinking, unencumbered by any practical, real-world experience. Allowing no nonhuman power transport on the trails sorta rules out horses too. Problem is that horse owners generally aren't poor and they vote. Was this just another unfunded mandate or maybe only a poorly thought out ideer? In any event, it reflects poorly on the originator.
New Rule: A Unified Theory of Wokeness | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=schuzjknjYE
Apparently horses have a "monogastric, cecal-fermenting digestive system" that is carbon friendly. If you were using cows as a means of transport that would be a different matter.
https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2021/07/17/horses-carbon-sequesters/
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Sheds a whole new light on Nissan's "Leaf". Maybe they will branch out into a 2-wheeled "Bud" variant?
https://electricbikeaction.com/the-amazing-nissan-e-bike-concept/
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230419-the-eccentric-pioneers-of-vegetable-electricity?utm_source=bbc-news&utm_medium=right-hand-slot
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Today I saw an E-bike;
"With a top speed of 40mph, a 750 watt motor that can deliver up to 4,000 watts in race mode, powerful hydraulic disc brakes and a thumb throttle included, the Vintage Electric Bikes Scrambler is a force to be reckoned with."
I gotta say it was pretty fast in city traffic. The price is about $6,000 USD
(https://cdn-apeka.nitrocdn.com/xKltwSUnXEmUnpFfLKhCPoBNktqaOXPr/assets/images/optimized/rev-58e9a69/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/vintage-e-bikes-scrambler-678x450.jpg)
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Today I saw an E-bike;
I gotta say it was pretty fast in city traffic. The price is about $6,000 USD
for 6 grand it had better be at least as fast as my himalayan
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Pacific, Graft and Explosion, along with the other two major electricity providers in California have come up with a new rate plan. Next year they will start charging their customers a base flat-rate fee based upon the customer's household income, ranging from $31 a month to $92 a month, plus their regular power consumption charge. The article that I read today says that it will hurt solar panel customers the most, some who are paying very little each month because they feed power back into the electrical grid for a credit at night when power consumption is up and solar wind farms producing electricity are down. They say they just want their solar power customers to "pay their fair share". ::) Leave it to the utility companies to come up with new and creative ways to increase their profits.
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They have fleets of accountants, lawyers, business strategists & lobbyists. And the CPUC. You have the freedom to live in a dark, hot house in the summer and a dark, cold one in the winter. Start a "Municipalization" or "Federalization" campaign and watch them squeal. Write more letters to your representatives. If you have PV, space for lots of batteries and a 13KW diesel generator you can tell them to take a hike. Most of us can't. Adjacent states don't pay anywhere near these rates, we're being gamed.
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Here, there are proposals around to charge all properties even those off grid a utility fee whether they are connected or not.
The claim is that the uptake of PV means changes to the infrastructure but the non-PV consumers are the ones paying for it. No idea if that is true.
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It's all bullshit. The homeowner sites, funds and constructs the PV, no charge to Pacific Greed & Extortion. PG&E and SCE both prefer PV Farm (central generator) models because they get paid to provide MW power level access to farmland where it was only KW before. That all requires guaranteed rate of return (+10.5 %) Capital Money spend. Can YOU get a guaranteed 10.5% RoR? No you cannot.
Rooftop solar puts the power where distribution already exists. Most PV is less than ordinary deliverable load, so "pushing out" PV power from a home is a non-issue. So NO capital spend cash cow there. A Home 200 Amp 240 panel can funnel in/out 48 KW safely, they are built to do it. Your residence is limited to 10KW PV, so....? Years back in the early days SCE did a 500 MW commercial rooftop project (two sequential 250 MW builds) in LA. They bid it at $3.70 per installed watt and only used rooftops of 5 acres or more. They prought in the first 250 MW build at $3.00 per installed watt and cancelled the remainder. Putting source & load on top of each other resulted in less Capital Spending and less wheeling fee revenue from wheeling in out of state power. Only a "Stoopid Guy" cuts himself out of free money, and Buddy, they ain't stoopid about their money.
What tells you for certain that it's a con job is that there is no significant renewable energy storage that has been built. Without storage renewables either force out scheduled power or have to themselves be sidelined in the Cal-ISO paper shuffle that keeps the lights on. Storage would smooth all that out, but would queer the sweetheart deals and adversely impact wheeling revenues.
We need rooftop solar, there's no shortage of pre-connected generation sites. We need renewable storage, that's easily doable with the tech we have right now. We'd just need elected representatives willing to push back against their lobbyiests. Right now the lobbyiests run the show. I think the only way to get there is to Nationalize/Federalize/Municipalize the grid and peel away the war gaming. These private utilities will NEVER do the right thing.
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What tells you for certain that it's a con job is that there is no significant renewable energy storage that has been built.
It is a thing in Australia. Despite persistent opposition by the pro-coal right wing former government storage proposals have been going ahead at a fast pace.
https://www.energy.vic.gov.au/renewable-energy/batteries-energy-storage-projects/victorian-big-battery
https://arena.gov.au/blog/arena-backs-eight-big-batteries-to-bolster-grid/
https://hornsdalepowerreserve.com.au/
Not just batteries, there is also a hydro stage project called "Snowy 2.0" under way that will provide 2000 MW on demand/350,000 MWh total storage.
https://www.energy.vic.gov.au/renewable-energy/batteries-energy-storage-projects/victorian-big-battery
Privately owned storage installations buy energy during the cheaper parts of the day and sell it back during peak times at a profit.
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buy energy during the cheaper parts of the day and sell it back during peak times at a profit.
awesomeness.
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Not just batteries, there is also a hydro stage project called "Snowy 2.0" under way that will provide 2000 MW on demand/350,000 MWh total storage. ;D ;D ;D
Hydro is awesome where you can find it. 350,000 MWHR at 2,000 MW draw down is one week continuous runtime. It would take a mountain of batteries to even begin to touch that, a mountain with about a 20 year life span. Hydro hardware at Big Creek is over 100 years old and still in good shape. Chemical storage as H2 compressed gas is cheap too IF you have suitable salt dome or oil well storage available. It can be undersea, doesn't matter. H2 blends can replace 15% of the nargas in a system with no hardware mods. That's a lot of energy storage also. You don't really need a Texas to have stored power.
At least Australia is paying attention...
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Royal Enfield is preparing to launch its first EV in 2024: February 7, 2023
https://autoevtimes.com/royal-enfield-is-preparing-to-launch-its-first-ev-in-2024/
To carry out the plan, Royal Enfield recently hired Umesh Krishnappa, the former CTO of Ola Electric, to lead its EV entry. According to several sources, a dedicated team for the electric vehicle business has been formed in India and the United Kingdom to develop a strategy for participating in the emerging zero-emission mobility space.
Royal Enfield will spend more than USD 100-150 million on its EV project. Work on a dedicated platform, internally dubbed ‘L,’ has already begun, and the company intends to offer a variety of products to meet the diverse needs of global buyers.
Within a few years of its market entry in the second half of 2024, the company is exploring a business potential of 1.2 to 1.8 lakh units per year from EVs.
The platform was created with a global audience in mind, so in addition to serving the domestic market’s growing EV space, the company hopes to also introduce it to some significant international markets.
Added the source, who asked to remain anonymous, “The company wants to get its product validated before the end of 2023 to be ready for a market launch in 2024.”
Royal Enfield is ready to step into the EV field with their first debut in 2024.
https://electricvehicles.in/in-2024-royal-enfield-will-launch-its-first-electric-vehicle/
The new product comes with ISO 26262 guidelines for complete EV performance study and validation using safety models, flux motors, 1D battery pack thermal model and validation, GT suite, Simulink, Amesim, range, acceleration, roll-on, etc.
“Our approach to developing electric motorcycles is very different and we have spent a lot of time researching and understanding the market and customers. A deeper investment has been made in it,” the representatives added.
Recently, the company released its first glimpse of the future Royal Enfield e-bike. The company also recently invested in Spanish EV startup Stark Future VL.
ROYAL ENFIELD ELECTRIC BIKE IN INDIA: DEBUTS IN 2024: April 6, 2023
https://dignoevs.com/royal-enfield-electric-bike-in-india-debuts-in-2024/
A dedicated team who is working develop Royal Enfield electric bike is said to be working in India and London and is planning to foray into the electric vehicle industry. Royal Enfield to invest 100 to 150 million dollars in the field of electric vehicles.
A dedicated platform is reportedly being developed through this investment. The platform is currently known internally as L. Royal Enfield plans to develop a wide range of vehicles that cater to the diverse needs of its globel customers.
Royal Enfield has set a target of 1.2 lakh to 1.8 lakh vehicles per annum from its market launch by the second half of 2024. The new platform is being developed keeping international customers in mind.
Talking about the specifications of the Royal Enfield electric bike it will have Flux Motor, Battery pack 1D thermal model and validation, Full EV performance studies and validation using GT-Suite, Simulink, Amesim, Range, Acceleration, Roll-On, etc.
A prototype for this platform is expected to be ready in the next 12 months. Royal Enfield Electric bike will be ready by the end of this year and will be in the market next year.
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Sodium-ion Battery already in production in this Chinese car...
https://www.newsbytesapp.com/news/auto/top-features-of-byd-seagull-ev-listed/story
The EV supports DC fast charging
Powering the BYD Seagull EV is a 74hp, front-mounted electric motor that is linked to a 30kWh sodium-ion battery pack or a 38kWh blade-type LFP battery pack. The former promises a range of up to 305km, while the latter has a claimed range of 405km.
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Renewable energy motorcycles are not a new thing.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/aFoAAMXQdx5RFcNI/s-l1600.jpg)
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Sodium-ion Battery already in production in this Chinese car...
https://www.newsbytesapp.com/news/auto/top-features-of-byd-seagull-ev-listed/story
The EV supports DC fast charging
Powering the BYD Seagull EV is a 74hp, front-mounted electric motor that is linked to a 30kWh sodium-ion battery pack or a 38kWh blade-type LFP battery pack. The former promises a range of up to 305km, while the latter has a claimed range of 405km.
As usual, I would take those range claims with a large grain of salt. My guess is that the 30kWh battery pack will allow the Seagull to travel about 100 miles before being depleted. Maybe a bit more if only used at city speeds and on flat terrain.
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The post was for the tech - first commercial Sodium Ion I'd seen. Supposedly way cheaper than lithium. Lower charge density, so more "footprint". As long as you have space, maybe a candidate for a poor mans "Powerwall".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery
The sodium-ion battery (NIB or SIB) is a type of rechargeable battery that uses sodium ions (Na+) as its charge carriers. Its working principle and cell construction in some case are similar to those of lithium-ion battery (LIB) types, but replace lithium with sodium. SIBs received academic and commercial interest in the 2010s and 2020s, largely due to the uneven geographic distribution, high environmental impact and high cost of many of the materials required for lithium-ion batteries. Chief among these are lithium, cobalt, copper and nickel, which are not strictly required for many types of sodium-ion batteries.[1] The largest advantage of sodium-ion batteries is the natural abundance of sodium.[2] Challenges to adoption of SIBs include low energy density and insufficient charge-discharge cycles.[3]
The technology is not mentioned in a United States Energy Information Administration report on battery storage technologies from 2021 [4] and electric vehicles using sodium-ion batteries are not commercially available. However CATL, the world's biggest battery manufacturer, announced in 2022 the start of mass production of SIBs. In February 2023, the Chinese HiNa Battery Technology Co., Ltd. placed a 140 Wh/kg sodium-ion battery in an electric test car for the first time [5] and energy storage manufacturer Pylontech obtained the first sodium-ion battery certificate by TÜV Rheinland.[6]
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I think that the original Zero motorcycle in 2009 had a sodium battery, or at least that was the claim at the time. They said that their battery was salt-based and environmentally friendly. It wasn't long before they switched to lithium, though.
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Looks more like Zero developed a better cooling methodology for existing Li cells.
https://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/2008-zero-x-electric-motorcycle-review-87516.html
When those lightweight motors became available, he realized that, as he put it, “All I needed was a battery, and I could make an electric motorcycle.” It wasn’t really that simple, as the lithium-ion batteries that power things like your laptop generate a lot of heat. Saiki knew his battery would have to dump about 300 amps of power at peak load. Remember those Mac laptop batteries that were recalled a couple of years ago? They were ‘experiencing thermal runaway’–that’s what high-tech engineers call catching fire–at loads two orders of magnitude lower. Saiki developed and patented a way of packing the cells and controlling them that makes his ‘Zenergy’ battery the smallest, lightest, most powerful and therefore coolest one ever.
Sodium Ion battery tech is commercially new. It's main claim to fame is low materials cost. It also works well at low temperatures where other compounds don't. It also doesn't randomly burn to the ground. Maybe a good choice for home power storage in unheated sheds in Northern climes.
https://cen.acs.org/business/inorganic-chemicals/Sodium-comes-battery-world/100/i19
Cost is indeed a key differentiator between lithium and sodium ion, according to Chris Wright, executive chairman of Faradion, which is developing sodium-ion batteries.
“The bill of materials for a sodium-ion cell is about one-third cheaper than for an equivalent one made from lithium ion,” Wright says. Na-ion batteries also perform well at as low as –20 °C and are not at risk of thermal runaway, “unlike some Li-ion batteries, which have been known to catch fire,” he adds.
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The Na-ion battery has about 3x to 4x the capacity of an equivalent Lead-acid, so if it's similar in cost it'll be a winner. It's still going to be either bulkier or heavier capacity to capicity than Li-ion, but there will be applications for cheaper electrical storage. I think this could bring e-storage down enough for the home owner to successfully use these. Inverters don't care how the juice is stored, they just need capacity.
Check out the "battery - relativity" connection below - who knew? :o
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93acid_battery
Lead–acid battery
Specific energy 35–40 Wh/kg[1]
Energy density 80–90 Wh/L[1]
Specific power 180 W/kg[2]
Charge/discharge efficiency 50%–95%[3]
Self-discharge rate 3%–20%/month[5]
Cycle durability <350 cycles[6]
Nominal cell voltage 2.1 V[7]
Charge temperature interval Min. −35°C, max. 45°C
https://phys.org/news/2011-01-car-batteries-powered-relativity.html
Car batteries powered by relativity
(PhysOrg.com) -- French physicist Gaston Plante invented the lead-acid battery in 1859 – almost 50 years before Einstein developed his theories of relativity. Now scientists have found that the lead-acid battery, which is commonly used in cars, strongly relies on the effects of relativity. Specifically, the scientists calculated that 1.7-1.8 volts of the lead-acid battery’s 2.1 volts (or about 80-85%) arise from relativistic effects.
The physicists and chemists who performed the study – Rajeev Ahuja, Andreas Blomqvist, and Peter Larsson from Uppsala University in Uppsala, Sweden, and Pekka Pyykkö and Patryk Zaleski-Ejgierd from the University of Helsinki – have published their results in a recent issue of Physical Review Letters.
"This is a new, well-documented case of 'everyday relativity,'" Pyykkö told PhysOrg.com. As the scientists noted in their study, the finding essentially means that "cars start due to relativity."
The lead-acid battery is the oldest type of rechargeable battery, with the main component being lead. With an atomic number of 82, lead is a heavy element. In general, relativistic effects emerge when fast electrons move near a heavy nucleus, such as that of lead. These relativistic effects include anything that depends on the speed of light (or from a mathematical perspective, anything that involves the Dirac or Schrödinger equations).
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Here is a review of the Livewire S2 Del Mar "city bike" by MotoBob: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHaMZBrBAvM
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As far as cars are concerned, the UK car manufacturing industry is predicting problems with batteries.
There is only one place producing batteries in the UK and that is in the north east of England.
I don't understand exactly what the problem is but it is something to do with exporting the cars.
(I didn't realise there was still much car manufacturing going on in the UK ! )
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The issue with Lithium batteries in a normal vehicle is if you live in a cold climate you either need to keep the vehicle in a warm place or put some sort of load on the battery like turn on the headlights to warm it up as lithium batteries go to sleep when too cold. It would be interesting to know if this is also an issue with electric vehicles and you need to "warm"your batteries for a bit before driving.
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From # 1280: The lead-acid battery is the oldest type of rechargeable battery, with the main component being lead. With an atomic number of 82, lead is a heavy element. In general, relativistic effects emerge when fast electrons move near a heavy nucleus, such as that of lead. These relativistic effects include anything that depends on the speed of light (or from a mathematical perspective, anything that involves the Dirac or Schrödinger equations).
Depleted uranium is heavy and cheap enough for projectiles... :o ???
Development of the uranium redox flow battery for power storage as efficient usage of depleted uranium
https://inis.iaea.org/search/search.aspx?orig_q=RN:38115606
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1227392
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Does that mean that my next electric motorcycle will be powered by depleted uranium batteries? ;D
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You could always find it outside the tavern on a foggy night, just look for the pale blue Cherenkov glow...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation
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meh ... you will not find me riding an of those old school depleted uranium bikes.
I will wait till micro fusion power plants for bikes hit the market.
None of that old boomer tech for me, I will be doing a glowup on my Enfield with the new Gucci fusion micropiles which are about to hit the market.
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I'll stick with good old Fusion Industries tried & true methodologies, thank you very much! None of that newfangled foreign stuff for me... ;D
"Mr. Fusion - powering your transportation dreams since 1985"
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Slightly off topic, but still interesting: An AP article titled "Ford EV owners to get access to Tesla Supercharger network", was published in my newspaper yesterday. According to the article all Ford EVs, both current and future models, will have access to about 12K Supercharger stations in the U.S. and Canada, starting in the spring. There will be a cost to Ford owners, perhaps a monthly subscription, but no details have been released yet.
At first, Ford's current EVs will need an adapter to hook into Tesla stations, but Ford will switch to Tesla's NA Charging Standard connector with is ts second-generation EVs starting in 2025. They will join Ford's 10K Blue Oval charging network. Ford EV owners will be able to access all of the 17K Tesla chargers seamlessly with Ford's app, according to Elon Musk.
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Now HERE's where things get wonky. Car charging costs 30-40 cents/KWH. The Homeowner with surplus PV makes 4-8 cents. That's between a 350% to 1000% mark-up. Any wonder SCE & PGE have multiple shiny skyscrapers and a fleet of corporate lawyers?
IF the homeowner with PV surplus power to sell sold to Tesla directly (just a metering nicety) they could easily double or triple their Rate of Return over what the power company is willing to part with. Can you imagine the screaming in PGE's Walnut Creek and SCE's Alhambra enclaves?
https://driveclean.ca.gov/electric-car-charging#:~:text=Drivers%20in%20California%20may%20expect,%2416%20with%20DC%20fast%20charging.
Drivers in California may expect to pay 30 cents per kWh to charge on Level 2, and 40 cents per kWh for DC fast charging. At these rates, the same Nissan LEAF with a 150-mile range and 40-kWh battery would cost about $12 to fully charge (from empty to full) using Level 2, and $16 with DC fast charging.
https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/sell-electricity-back-grid3.htm#:~:text=So%20how%20much%20money%20can,sold%20back%20to%20the%20grid.
So how much money can you make selling electricity back to the grid? Since rates vary with the market value of electricity, there's no set dollar figure that you can expect to take home. However, some home producers make from $0.04 to $0.08 per kWh sold back to the grid.
The same would go for anyone building renewable energy storage. Power costs don't stop at 40 cents a KWh, they go to 75 cents or a dollar per KWH during peak demand times. Even accounting for "round-trip" losses, at 40% recovery rates anytime power sold for 12 cents or more (almost always) the homeowner would come out ahead if he had a contract with such an energy storage facility. Both SCE and PGE already have pump-back Hydro, so what's the hold up? Bigger year end bonuses to keep doing what we're doing?
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Australia is very much in the 5 to 10 cent range per kwh for feeding back to the grid.
In the US it apparently varies by State and energy provider. In some areas you get zilch back but other parts of the US pay back the full retail price 1:1. Depends where you live.
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OBVIOUSLY you need a larger Corporate Utility Criminal class! ;D ;D ;D
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Pacific, Graft and Explosion gives the homeowner $0.02 per KWH fed back into their grid by solar panels or a storage battery and charges their customers around $0.40 per KWH in return. The homeowner does much better by just using their solar and battery power themselves in order to limit importing any PG&E power as much as possible.
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but.. but.. how else will the CEOs afford their vacations, vacation homes, jets, yachts, ...?
those poor deprived CEOs. :(
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@ Reply #1293: at 20x between what you pay and what you get paid there is PLENTY of wiggle room for even 40% round trip efficiency renewable energy storage. For real entertainment go to your next utility town hall and bring this up. Wait for the glassy stares and resounding silence, it's pretty funny to see these "Captains of Industry" suddenly go "brane ded" and pretend to have never heard of it or else say placatingly they are "working on it". There's safety in "working on it" with a microscopic demo project paid for entirely by the Feds, gives you plausible deniability. Nothing like being paid handsomly to rediscover the wheel, over and over again... ::)
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but.. but.. how else will the CEOs afford their vacations, vacation homes, jets, yachts, ...?
those poor deprived CEOs. :(
How about the 80% cheerleaders that these companies employ? ... exactly the places anyone "must" like to work for.
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How about the 80% cheerleaders that these companies employ? ... exactly the places anyone "must" like to work for.
i've worked at some big corps but i've never seen "cheerleader" as a job title. who are they? can you be more specific?
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Well someone has to employ the poor little things.
The future career options for cheer leaders after high school are basically modelling for Harley Advertising. appearing on Mechanic Workshop Annual Calendars or a gig as an exotic dancer in Vegas or Florida.
Community minded CEO offering desperately poor ex cheer leaders a job as decorative office accessories should be thanked and encouraged.
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To Derottone's point - there is a category of Corporate office level hired help that might best be classified as "Comfort Girl ( :o Boy?)". They indeed are very Corporate positive, as CEO's pay well to get their "ego's" massaged...sometimes whilst on the job. It ain't right, but it is one of the boss-level job perks for volunteering to participate in quasi-legal business dealings and labor suppression tactics.
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To Derottone's point - there is a category of Corporate office level hired help that might best be classified as "Comfort Girl ( :o Boy?)". They indeed are very Corporate positive, as CEO's pay well to get their "ego's" massaged...sometimes whilst on the job. It ain't right, but it is one of the boss-level job perks for volunteering to participate in quasi-legal business dealings and labor suppression tactics.
You've got an Idea what I mean. ;)
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Well someone has to employ the poor little things.
The future career options for cheer leaders after high school are basically modelling for Harley Advertising. appearing on Mechanic Workshop Annual Calendars or a gig as an exotic dancer in Vegas or Florida.
Community minded CEO offering desperately poor ex cheer leaders a job as decorative office accessories should be thanked and encouraged.
https://youtu.be/DkY_3cV0U7M
...once Electrolux takes care of your way of life and "healthier" lifestyle, I bet you'll get infected with down-syndrome at least.
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Did you hear about Old Fred? He spent too much time on those 1-900-XXXX numbers and came down with Hearing Aids... :o 8)
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former cheerleaders have bright prospects as newscasters esp for fox.
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Plan "B". Why waste that Journalism degree? :o 8)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_News
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True, though news reading naked does not really take advantage of their cheer leading skills.
Also you do have to wonder about naked weather girls reporting on location about snow storms and blizzards. I suspect they also would go through a small fortune in sun block and skin cancer would be a naked weather girl occupational hazard.
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Ahhh...skin cancer takes years, likely a hoax anyway. You'd definitely know if the weather was cold though... ;D
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Here is some interesting EV news: Both Ford and GM have partnered with Tesla to use their charging station network in the U.S. The attached article explains the deal.
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Here is the latest U.S. charging station analysis by the AP.
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Here is report regarding BMW's latest electric motorcycle, the C02. Not very exciting: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/new-model-preview/2024-bmw-ce-02-first-look-44592322
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So, a car battery that holds 150-200 KWH and recharges in 10 minutes.
The charger would need to be able to deliver 1,200 KW (1.2 MW) for 10 minutes at 480V or 1KV.
1,200,000 watts / 500V (keep the maths easy...) 2400 amps. That's a lot. Even at 1 KV it's still 1200 Amps. +1000 ampere connections need to be reliably tight and clean. Any resistance at the connection shows up as heat, calculated by watt equivalent as IxIxR. Things can rapidly spin wildly out of control.
1 megawatt is widely assumed to be able to power from 400 to 1000 residential homes, depending on where and when you are in the country. A single EV putting a 1.2 MW load for 10 minutes is like 500 to 1200 houses just suddenly appeared on the grid. More importantly, they appear on the local residential grid which is usually just built for existing need. You can begin to see how "improving the Grid" for EV fast charging with 10.5% guaranteed rate of return "Capital Spend" money is a lucrative pastime for the private electrical utility serving your area. More EVs and the faster the cars charge the bigger the "suck" on the power delivery system. The system has to be built to supply max load, otherwise you are talking brownouts or rolling blackouts. $$$$ ::)
https://insideevs.com/news/675517/toyota-battery-breakthrough-745-miles-range/
Toyota Claims Breakthrough That Will Lead To 745-Mile EV Battery
The Japanese automaker says it will soon be able to manufacture a solid-state pack that can charge in 10 minutes.
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Generally fast charging is discussed in terms of commercial charging stations for travellers and it is assumed commuting users will charge more slowly either at home or in their work car park, often using a solar array to offset the cost.
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Fast Recharging EV's adds a lot to grid load. The energy equivalent of about 1/3rd of gasoline required for an ICE motor must be made up in real time. Liquid hydrocarbon fuels are generally "harvested" from existing stored energy sources (oil) and don't add much to grid demand. Most refineries are self-contained, their pumping loads are served by on-site generation as it's just cheaper that way.
I'm with you 100% as regards solar roof home charging at a reduced rate, that's the smart money here. The point is that it's tough (read expensive) to replace the energy used by transportation in real time society wide. We'll need more generation capacity. If you want to do it without making more CO2 then we better start building more Nukes. Using H2 as an energy storage medium is another piece of the puzzle.
Of course we can always go back to truly energy efficient, environmentally benign housing & transport...but there will be a LOT of squealing.
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Truly energy efficient transport ...
(https://sandinmysuitcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/The-Royal-Clipper-1.jpg)
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Truly energy efficient transport ...
(https://sandinmysuitcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/The-Royal-Clipper-1.jpg)
Your lunch may come however somewhat delayed.... :o
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And your Amazon package. ;)
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Here is another article regarding the 2024 BMW CE 02. Definitely a "city bike" but it does look well built: https://thepack.news/bmw-motorrad-usa-presents-the-new-2024-bmw-ce-02/
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And your Amazon package. ;)
That's of course a prime concern. ;)
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" That's of course a prime concern. "
OUCH! - I see what you are doing there... ;D Maybe you could get the "sail" price upon any delays... ::)
"He who would pun would pick a pocket" 8)
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Who is picking pocket, how? Amazon is getting Rivian electric delivery vans, I wouldn't be surprised if they earned on the ownership of those through "incentives" more than by delivering packages.
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You were punning. I was punning. Historically that was construed as demonstrating criminal tendencies...by non-punners. :o 8)
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You were punning. I was punning. Historically that was construed as demonstrating criminal tendencies...by non-punners. :o 8)
Sometimes. The famous scam that advertises a way to cut your power bills in half and then they send you a pair of plastic scissors is probably a good example of a criminal pun.
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Here is an interesting one - electric cars sinking ships ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr0uj5fChLA
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Here is an interesting one - electric cars sinking ships ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr0uj5fChLA
...well good luck finding the exact cause of the fire, probably an EV battery, but why exactly that one...
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The wife and I just purchased two fat tire ebikes. Asomtom Q7s. I do a lot of ADV motorcycling and she loves to hike, so this was a good compromise for both of us to do things together. The intent is trail riding and it's going extremely well. Using pedal assist, 40 miles per charge is about average. The torque on this thing is really nice and tops out at 31 MPH.
So far, quality, durability, and fun factor has been above expectations. Besides I get to do ADV style riding on trails I could never take the Tiger.
If you're ever considering it, I say go for it. Well worth the price of admission.
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In today's news seven major electric vehicle car manufacturers have formed a joint venture and plan to spend at least $1 billion to install as many as 30,000 DC fast charging stations on major highways and other locations in the U.S. and Canada. Article attached.
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The wife and I just purchased two fat tire ebikes. Asomtom Q7s. I do a lot of ADV motorcycling and she loves to hike, so this was a good compromise for both of us to do things together. The intent is trail riding and it's going extremely well. Using pedal assist, 40 miles per charge is about average. The torque on this thing is really nice and tops out at 31 MPH.
So far, quality, durability, and fun factor has been above expectations. Besides I get to do ADV style riding on trails I could never take the Tiger.
If you're ever considering it, I say go for it. Well worth the price of admission.
I'm sure it's great, but I wouldn't buy one unless I was "working" in one of those commie corporations....it might burn down your house, sinking nordic accountant battery powered ships are at least entertaining.
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The wife and I just purchased two fat tire ebikes. Asomtom Q7s. I do a lot of ADV motorcycling and she loves to hike, so this was a good compromise for both of us to do things together. The intent is trail riding and it's going extremely well. Using pedal assist, 40 miles per charge is about average. The torque on this thing is really nice and tops out at 31 MPH.
So far, quality, durability, and fun factor has been above expectations. Besides I get to do ADV style riding on trails I could never take the Tiger.
If you're ever considering it, I say go for it. Well worth the price of admission.
A quick look-see makes me think you made a very smart choice of machine. It looks like replacement batteries are even available and reasonably priced. https://www.asomtom.com/products/asomtom-ebike-battery-pack
It's good to see the cost of mid motor bikes down below the $1500 mark. Until now, I've only seen hub motor bikes were being offered at that price level.
For folks who may not be following the E-bicycle market, there's two main configurations.
- Hub motors are built into a wheel hub, generally rear, but can also be front. These motors won't benefit from changes in gear ratio for the pedal drive system, so situations like uphills, (heavy load, low rpm) are particularly taxing. Many hub motors now have internal planetary gears to increase the spin rate of the armature vs the hub, but I haven't seen any with changeable ratio internal gearing yet.
- Mid motors are placed near to, and drive the crank, so they can operate through the same final drive as the pedal drive system, and benefit from that system's gear ratios. In this case the weight of the motor is "sprung weight", which is advantageous vs. a hub motor which is unsprung weight.
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And the stinky EU still wants to sell me more beer, as if I was not drinking enough already.
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I have a $1400 ebike with a claimed 750 watt hub motor and a claimed 20 Ah battery pack. It really doesn't like hills and I have to provide pedal assistance when going up a hill more than about a 10% grade. The battery pack is only good for about 30 miles before needing to be recharged. (The manufacturer claimed 80 miles - but they lied. ::) )
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A tiny deviation from spec. :D
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I have a $1400 ebike with a claimed 750 watt hub motor and a claimed 20 Ah battery pack. It really doesn't like hills and I have to provide pedal assistance when going up a hill more than about a 10% grade. The battery pack is only good for about 30 miles before needing to be recharged. (The manufacturer claimed 80 miles - but they lied. ::) )
Like with any product, the truth is probably buried deep in the fine print. There are likely asterisks, daggers and double daggers leading one down through increasing levels of hedging and obfuscation. Most of these range claims include the words "UP TO", as in "UP TO 80 miles per charge. I'd read that as closer to 40 miles per charge, when the battery is new. You can bet that their test procedure did not include hills, or headwinds, or low air pressure in the tires, and probably demanded some level of rider power contribution.
Also relevant is the type of charger used. The inexpensive chargers that are included with price point machines are probably not optimized to pack in the electrons. Likely the tests were done with brand new batteries, charged very close to 100% capacity using expensive battery state monitoring chargers, and range tests were done at max efficiency operating speed, which is probably closer to 15mph than top speed. 15 mph is the speed that the Eta was traveling when it set the current record for EV efficiency, which is 797 mi/kWh, despite the fact that the Eta has a much lower drag coefficient than any bicycle. http://www.duke-ev.org/eta That thing could milk 765 miles out of your 48V battery pack, if it was at full capacity, and voltage compatible, which it probably isn't.
Kikdrum18's Asomtom Q7 claims "Up to 60 miles per charge", from its 48V, 15 Ah battery pack, and he says it delivers 40 miles of fun, which suggests he isn't sparing the watts with his throttle hand. Of course, his mid motor, benefiting from gearing and able to operate closer to the sweet spot of rotating efficiency, vs a hub motor trying to generate power at low rpms by sucking more current, is inherently more efficient. His machine's blurb goes on to say, "Our removable battery can cover a maximum electric range of 35-45 miles in pure electric mode and 45-60 miles in pedal-assist mode (PAS mode), depending on rider weight and road conditions.", so I guess there's good reason why he's expressing satisfaction, and you are not.
Which make and model are you riding? Maybe it's a good idea to sell it on, while it's still got some residual value and get yourself one of these Asomtoms? The mid motors are much better for use on hills.
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My e-bike brand is HADQI. I bought it for its relatively cheap price for what you get and because they offered free shipping and did not charge my city's CA sales tax of almost 10%. It works well enough for me. BTW, all electric motorcycles that I am familiar with have the same marketing claims about performance and range. I think the more expensive ones use an indoor rolling road to obtain their numbers. No hills and no headwind. ;)
I always take e-bike and motorcycle marketing claims with a large grain of salt.
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Here is an article that was in my newspaper today that fits right into this discussion. ::)
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A quick look-see makes me think you made a very smart choice of machine. It looks like replacement batteries are even available and reasonably priced. https://www.asomtom.com/products/asomtom-ebike-battery-pack
It's good to see the cost of mid motor bikes down below the $1500 mark. Until now, I've only seen hub motor bikes were being offered at that price level.
For folks who may not be following the E-bicycle market, there's two main configurations.
- Hub motors are built into a wheel hub, generally rear, but can also be front. These motors won't benefit from changes in gear ratio for the pedal drive system, so situations like uphills, (heavy load, low rpm) are particularly taxing. Many hub motors now have internal planetary gears to increase the spin rate of the armature vs the hub, but I haven't seen any with changeable ratio internal gearing yet.
- Mid motors are placed near to, and drive the crank, so they can operate through the same final drive as the pedal drive system, and benefit from that system's gear ratios. In this case the weight of the motor is "sprung weight", which is advantageous vs. a hub motor which is unsprung weight.
I did a lot of research before settling for the Asomtom brand. Riding technique on trails takes a bit of getting used to, but the performance and range has been what's expected.
I would never assume I'd get the range the manufacturer claims. But overall, more than acceptable.
As for house fires, there are simple rules to follow to assure safety. Battery quality, not over charging, and never leaving charging batteries unattended are the fundamentals.
Remember when phones were blowing up?
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Here is an article that was in my newspaper today that fits right into this discussion. ::)
hmm - issues with performance when cold.
Back in the day the Beechcraft Bonanza used a gasoline burner to heat the cabin. Perhaps they could use a gasoline burner to heat the batteries ?
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Here is an article that was in my newspaper today that fits right into this discussion. ::)
Even if there's a 0.01% deviation to spec you'll find enough folks complaining, where do you want to draw the line? 50% lower range than advertised woud probably be a no go for me unless I bought it as a toy basically.
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@ Reply #1335; Maybe an owner wearable battery for cold climes? Less unsprung weight, even some thermal input as the battery warms in service. You could call it "The Flashback", maybe even have Camelback make them up with a flexible solar panel outer cover... ::) $$$
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Even if there's a 0.01% deviation to spec you'll find enough folks complaining, where do you want to draw the line? 50% lower range than advertised woud probably be a no go for me unless I bought it as a toy basically.
All I can say is we do all day outings that cover about 30-40 miles off-road. Rarely ride without pedal assist. Also we're in Florida where saying lots of flat surfaces is an understatement.
The 20ah batteries are not light. Maybe a little better than 10lbs. You could carry an extra with little problems. We really don't have any reason to.
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https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/burning-freight-ship-was-carrying-more-electric-cars-than-first-reported-shipping-company-says/287582
Turns out there was over 500 EVs on that fuc€ing ship.
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Always carry a little swiss pocket knife with you in case you meet some of your swedish "genetical" relatives.
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My pedelec motor cuts out after a few seconds if you don't pedal - there is no throttle.
I found the battery was only good for about 16 miles , about half the claimed range, on a mostly flat circular route.
The bike shop can fit a more powerful battery now with a much better range even for my basic rear hub motor D Cycle Delight 8 - must get it done. I found it fine as long as the battery didn't run out before I got home, when it was impossible to ride without motor assist.
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Kawasaki's first two full-size electric motorcycles are getting close to being marketed in Australia. But don't expect them to worry Zero, LiveWire, or Energica too much. And if you like the looks of the 400 Ninja, you will like the looks of these models. Here is the story as told by Motorcycle.com: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/new-model-preview/kawasaki-ninja-e-1-and-z-e-1-electrics-ready-for-launch-44593204
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The FUELL Flow is ready for production. But they want your money first: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/news/erik-buell-designed-fuell-flow-now-open-for-pre-orders-44592085
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H-D's LiveWire One sales are slumping. Only 33 units sold during the last quarter. But the brand is still hanging in there: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/features/key-takeaways-from-harley-davidsons-q2-2023-report-44593087
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HD LiveWire sales slumping? A $30K machine with mebbe 100 miles of range ? In the words of my old Alabama tile setter pal - "If'n at first yew don't succeed, just keep right on a'suckin' thet seed..."
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Always carry a little swiss pocket knife with you in case you meet some of your swedish "genetical" relatives.
Or in case there's cheesecake.
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H-D's LiveWire One sales are slumping. Only 33 units sold during the last quarter. But the brand is still hanging in there: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/features/key-takeaways-from-harley-davidsons-q2-2023-report-44593087
Didn't they stop putting "Harley Davidson" branding on Livewires? Poor sales of the big E-bikes don't have to counted against HOG's sale's goals because they aren't HDs, now they are Livewires.
I don't understand the point of the exponential sales growth prediction that was created for the Livewire. They didn't make last years goal of 957, they won't make this years goal or 7,236, and I doubt anyone seriously believes that they are on track to be selling 101,000 units in 2026. At some point one would expect that the prediction would be corrected to reflect reality? I don't understand the purpose of the smoke and mirrors, but I guess this is the inevitable outcome when you send your kids to school to study finance instead of engineering.
The one encouraging aspect is that it appears from this article that HD engineers designed the Livewire drive system architecture to be a scale-able system, so if this isn't just more flimflam and eyewash, in theory, development cost for smaller, lighter, less expensive models should be greatly reduced. https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/livewire-wants-to-grow-from-400-bikes-to-101000-units-sold-in-five-years
In another example of HD or perhaps moto media fancy footwork, the Motorcycle.com article states that sales in Asia were up by 24% in Q2. 7500 motorcycles isn't a lot by any Asian standard, but one would suspect that the increase was due to sales of the new X440. Yet, the article goes on to clearly state that sales of this machine are to be considered as Hero sales, not HDs. HD gets to count money received from their licensing agreement, but X440s aren't to be considered as units of HD sales. Maybe Hero dealers were able to up-sell folks who came in to buy 440cc machines, up to 975cc Nightsters or 1868cc Fat Bobs? It's just a 700 or 800% price increase.
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From the projected growth rates of that chart it looks like the known universe might soon fill up with Livewires.
"Coming SOON! The H.D. Singularity!!
Now featuring Solidified Neutron Floorboards and FTL Quark Injection!
I'm betting some Marketing Jefe was just looking for a bonus cheque from the BoD to round out his portfolio before moving on...
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Considering that they only sold 33 LiveWire Ones during the last quarter, they are going to be lucky if they manage to sell 150 units this year.
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I don't understand the point of the exponential sales growth prediction that was created for the Livewire.
Snake oil salesmen style rosy market predictions are generally aimed at garnering investment of some sort .
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Snake oil salesmen style rosy market predictions are generally aimed at garnering investment of some sort .
True, and in this case, I'm feeling it was to rope in their partner for the SPAC deal they did when Livewire became it's own, publicly traded, entity. https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2022/september/livewire-floated-nyse
Again, not a finance guy, but, when it's time to write off the truly massive development costs of the model, it will be LVWR, with very little income, holding the bag, not HOG who still has some money coming in.
The more I learn about this kind of stuff, the less I want to know. Definitely makes me nostalgic for the days when the company paid more attention to machines than to financial machinations.
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Bikewale on the job! ;D
https://www.bikewale.com/news/electric-royal-enfield-himalayan-launch-in-2025/?utm_source=BWSubscription&utm_medium=BrowserNotification&utm_campaign=BikewaleWebNotification&utm_term=154607
Electric Royal Enfield Himalayan launch in 2025?
Pratheek Kunder
August 05, 2023, 08:18 AM
- First Royal Enfield bike in two years
- Electric Himalayan could be the first bike
- Working on a range of new EVs
Royal Enfield has been working on a series of new electric motorcycles. This development was revealed in last year's annual report. But this time, there are some concrete details about the possible launch timeline of an EV.
During the Q1 financial reporting, the company's top honcho revealed the exact timeline of its first electric motorcycle. Siddharth Lal, CEO of Eicher Motors, said that the company is two years away from its first EV hitting the market. Many people are working on this project, and some prototypes have also been readied. Currently, their engineers are riding these prototypes. The top honcho also said that they are working on a different EV platform that will help them stand out and differentiate from the rivals in the market.
A few months ago, we revealed the first concept pictures of the electric Himalayan. This concept had a bigger battery pack loaded with top-spec technology. Royal Enfield might use this EV concept and share the company's direction in this growing segment. The electric Himalayan will likely get one of the best riding ranges in the market due to a bigger battery pack. As a result, the overall price would be higher. Now, we think Royal Enfield would want to start its EV journey with the most expensive model and then come down the price bracket.
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Bikewale on the job! ;D
https://www.bikewale.com/news/electric-royal-enfield-himalayan-launch-in-2025/?utm_source=BWSubscription&utm_medium=BrowserNotification&utm_campaign=BikewaleWebNotification&utm_term=154607
Electric Royal Enfield Himalayan launch in 2025?
Pratheek Kunder
August 05, 2023, 08:18 AM
- First Royal Enfield bike in two years
- Electric Himalayan could be the first bike
- Working on a range of new EVs
Royal Enfield has been working on a series of new electric motorcycles. This development was revealed in last year's annual report. But this time, there are some concrete details about the possible launch timeline of an EV.
During the Q1 financial reporting, the company's top honcho revealed the exact timeline of its first electric motorcycle. Siddharth Lal, CEO of Eicher Motors, said that the company is two years away from its first EV hitting the market. Many people are working on this project, and some prototypes have also been readied. Currently, their engineers are riding these prototypes. The top honcho also said that they are working on a different EV platform that will help them stand out and differentiate from the rivals in the market.
A few months ago, we revealed the first concept pictures of the electric Himalayan. This concept had a bigger battery pack loaded with top-spec technology. Royal Enfield might use this EV concept and share the company's direction in this growing segment. The electric Himalayan will likely get one of the best riding ranges in the market due to a bigger battery pack. As a result, the overall price would be higher. Now, we think Royal Enfield would want to start its EV journey with the most expensive model and then come down the price bracket.
I have to say, that's one of the better looking e adventure bikes I've seen, IMO.
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The boys from Mid-Nite Auto strike again - "Onward into the Future!"
https://www.rideapart.com/news/677377/thieves-stealing-ev-charging-cables/
As for why anyone would want to steal the charging cord of an EV, well, as it would turn out, they’re quite expensive. It’s speculated that thieves flip these charging cords on online selling platforms, or sell them for scrap, as these cables are full of valuable copper wiring. This problem is foreseen to go on, as charging cords for electric vehicles are extremely easy to get to, especially for folks who charge their cars outdoors. As for Bob Schneiderman, he had to fork out a rather hefty $2,700 USD to replace his lost cable.
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You would hope it would be covered by either house or car insurance.
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You would hope it would be covered by either house or car insurance.
Doubt it - the bike isn't covered by insurance if left within 500m of the house unless it is in a locked garage.
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I have to say, that's one of the better looking e adventure bikes I've seen, IMO.
The usual big ugly lump of an electric motorcycle IMO. :)
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The usual big ugly lump of an electric motorcycle IMO. :)
Sure, but one of the better looking ugly lumps. ADV bikes always seemed a bit ugly to me. I find mine to be a bit ugly, but there's still something very appealing about it.... to me.
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You would hope it would be covered by either house or car insurance.
So then we all chip in & pay for it.
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Sure, but one of the better looking ugly lumps. ADV bikes always seemed a bit ugly to me. I find mine to be a bit ugly, but there's still something very appealing about it.... to me.
+1 they all look ugly. ;D
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Who needs batteries? Woodgaz, the fuel of the future!! A hatchet & some garden shears and you're off to the races.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SztJDz1QM30
USSR gasifier motorcycles
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https://www.inverse.com/article/23822-wood-biofuel-atj-plane-flew-across-country
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Who needs batteries? Woodgaz, the fuel of the future!! A hatchet & some garden shears and you're off to the races.
USSR gasifier motorcycles
Who needs a gasifier? Or a hatchet? This guy picks up free fuel wherever he goes, and doesn't even put on work gloves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_05tcpmyUU
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https://www.thedrive.com/news/hyundai-tucson-fcev-owner-shocked-by-113k-repair-bill-for-hydrogen-fuel-cell
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..as George Carlin said, some build their house next to an active volcano and than wonder why there's lava in the living room.
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A lava lamp is a better solution.
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@ Reply #1364: H2 is much better suited for commercial vehicles, Railroads, State & Federal fleets, pretty much anyplace that has dedicated support structure to deal with the technology. The Dealer should have just run this up the Corporate flag
pole immediately instead of opening up a biggo' box of stupid. Dealer Mechanics aren't up to speed on much beyond changing parts on ICE engines, and mostly 4-cycle ones at that. A new NEXO should have been on the customers driveway the next morning at wholesale cost. A customer that uses his new tech H2 vehicle that much is great PR for Hyundai, it was a real lost opportunity for Hyundais H2 vehicle division.
Hyundai also notes that the successor, the Nexo fuel cell vehicle, is in mass production. Replacement fuel cells for that vehicle are available for a more reasonable price of 41,650 ($45,000). That's still a ridiculously high figure, but Hyundai claims the fuel cells are designed for a ten-year life or 5,000 hours of operation. They also come with a ten-year, 100,000-mile warranty in some markets. Total sales exceeded 10,000 units by 2020.
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@ Reply #1364: H2 is much better suited for commercial vehicles, Railroads, State & Federal fleets, pretty much anyplace that has dedicated support structure to deal with the technology. The Dealer should have just run this up the Corporate flag
pole immediately instead of opening up a biggo' box of stupid. Dealer Mechanics aren't up to speed on much beyond changing parts on ICE engines, and mostly 4-cycle ones at that. A new NEXO should have been on the customers driveway the next morning at wholesale cost. A customer that uses his new tech H2 vehicle that much is great PR for Hyundai, it was a real lost opportunity for Hyundais H2 vehicle division.
Hyundai also notes that the successor, the Nexo fuel cell vehicle, is in mass production. Replacement fuel cells for that vehicle are available for a more reasonable price of 41,650 ($45,000). That's still a ridiculously high figure, but Hyundai claims the fuel cells are designed for a ten-year life or 5,000 hours of operation. They also come with a ten-year, 100,000-mile warranty in some markets. Total sales exceeded 10,000 units by 2020.
Apparently the cells are repairable by an engineering shop that knows what they are doing for much less than a new one, but that is likely not the sort of thing you want your local car dealership attempting.
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How about labeling it "EXPERIMENTAL" as is the case with home built aircraft and selling it with limited warranty to who "need" one.
Who's got 50k€ for that kind of crap, that guy must be doing something right.
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"The more you pay, the more it's worth" D. McLean
" Starting at $159,999,,," :o ::)
https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-models/xm-plug-in-hybrid/overview.html?cid=GOOGLE_700000000053824_G%7CBMW%7CNAT%7CT1%7CXM%7CModel%7CAO%7CModel+Support%7CVarious_XM+%7C+Base+%7C+Exact&tier=tier1&maco=national&ch=paid_search&veh=NA&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrfymBhCTARIsADXTabmbJivgsE_BhK970XD7-70rfTeGkNNoux_clSmhXgnC6t3fu9TIP-MaAt61EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
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That sure is the California model for someone like the new upcoming Mr.T from the A-Team. ;D
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It's just the affluent to prestige-displaying to their peers. "California Model" is irrelevant, it's status messaging amongst the well-heeled, a behavior which has always existed. The rest of us just buy the affordable 50 MPG Prius or +40 MPG Corolla or Civic to go about our daily grocery-getting chores.
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That's a tragedy squared, the commies built affordable cars that were more fun at least on the snow and equally practical. The mileage was not that much worse considering it didn't have an EFI, even though it was a FIAT copy.
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This is the only mini car I would ever buy. I'm not joking either ! :D
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Now THAT's one "Smart" looking hotrod! ;D ;D ;D
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I think if a Millennial ever builds a hot rod, it's going to look a lot more like THIS, than that.
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Do not be silly ... millennials will drive dropped and chopped Tesla EVs .
(https://cg0.cgsociety.org/uploads/images/original/xtrm3d-tesla-2018-model-3-h-2-48e590da-006b.jpeg)
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I think if a Millennial ever builds a hot rod, it's going to look a lot more like THIS, than that.
Only with a 5000 page manual full with instructions. ;)
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Only with a 5000 page manual full with instructions. ;)
The true master needs not a manual of instruction, Padawan.
The everlasting light of Lego within all of us, is all the enlightened hand needs to guide even the smallest piece to it's rightful place.
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This is the only mini car I would ever buy. I'm not joking either ! :D
I was about 100% serious. I'm kind of lucky that I never owned the fashistic monkey bricks called Lego. ;D ...that guy apparently also became billionaire like Kamerad Kamprad from IKEA by selling those sh#t bricks, patent on what exactly??? This flexibility those bricks offer, beyond belief...
https://youtu.be/wm0cfevdPRA
the Soviets had better toys., 100% guaranteed.
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the Soviets had better toys., 100% guaranteed.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/xXVzgoLDda8/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://cdn.rebrickable.com/media/thumbs/mocs/moc-79815.jpg/1000x800.jpg)
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Here is an interesting piece of news that I copied from a post on the Electric Motorcycle Forum: "Hero MotoCorp and Zero Motorcycles have signed a deal, and will now co-develop EV products for India. Hero had earlier announced an equity investment of $60 million (Rs 490 crore approx). Now, the Indian two-wheeler giant will levy its expertise in scaling production, sourcing and marketing for Zero Motorcycle products."
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This is not the time to try buying a SONDORS electric motorcycle: https://electrek.co/2023/08/22/signs-point-to-e-bike-company-sondors-in-peril-leaving-riders-stranded/
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" Bee note thee firft bye whome the new is tryed, nor the laste to caste the olds aside..." B. Franklin
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This is not the time to try buying a SONDORS electric motorcycle: https://electrek.co/2023/08/22/signs-point-to-e-bike-company-sondors-in-peril-leaving-riders-stranded/
Not good news. Sondors used the same "pay now, get later" crowdfunding model when they started with their electric bicycles in 2015. Those bikes weren't the highest performing, but they seemed to satisfy the folks who bought them, offered good value for price, and generated enough capital to allow Sondors to take the big step to the E-moto.
Reading the article you linked to, they mentioned problems with regulatory approval and distribution. This is one area that often causes problems with new vehicles, and why something classified as a bicycle is so much easier to bring to market, than something classed as a motor vehicle. It's also a lot easier to stay out of court riding a bicycle.
If Sondors goes south, I wonder if we won't see that unique cast aluminum frame showing up on some no-name machine offered up on Amazon or Alibaba? ( Of course the ads will say, "for offroad or private use only")
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80 mph CSC RX1E electric motorcycle review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryCg-fNHRGs
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80 mph CSC RX1E electric motorcycle review:
Whenever I watch a two wheeler video, E-Bike, scooter, IC engine, whatever, and they dub "cool music" over the riding segments, I give them a big old "F" for Fail! Makes me think they are hiding something.
I don't think I'm the only one who wants as much of the experience as possible from a video, and that includes the sound of the engine, motor, or even the pedal /chain drive on the bicycle if that's what I'm looking at. If that reviewer decided to wear corduroy biker shorts on his mountain bike ride, I want to hear it!
The exception is any video from CycleCruza, he should play nothing but music, thoughout.
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Sound of an electric motor doesn't appeal to me !
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Call that an engine, this is an engine ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79H50e5GT7E
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If you don't want to market a full-size highway-capable electric motorcycle, then you can dazzle the world with an electric rideable suitcase, instead. https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/15/meet_hondas_newest_electric_vehicle/
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If you don't want to market a full-size highway-capable electric motorcycle, then you can dazzle the world with an electric rideable suitcase, instead. https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/15/meet_hondas_newest_electric_vehicle/
Every so often a product comes along, like this one, that makes me wish I was rich.
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Every so often a product comes along, like this one, that makes me wish I was rich.
But would you want to be seen riding around town on an electric suitcase? ;)
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But would you want to be seen riding around town on an electric suitcase? ;)
OH YEAH I would ;)
But closer to sanity I came across this article / video about eBike dynos
https://area13ebikes.com/dyno/ (https://area13ebikes.com/dyno/)
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That electric suitcase would be an awesome thing to throw in the back of your Cirrus or vintage Comanche for easy transport at the other end without waiting an hour for an Uber.
Alternatively you could do the Mike Patey thing and sling conventional e-bikes under the wings I suppose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecGPx_neUbk&pp=ygURbWlrZSBwYXR5IGUgYmlrZXM%3D
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That electric suitcase would be an awesome thing to throw in the back of your Cirrus or vintage Comanche for easy transport at the other end without waiting an hour for an Uber.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecGPx_neUbk&pp=ygURbWlrZSBwYXR5IGUgYmlrZXM%3D
Or preferably ride it straight to the rubbish tip ! :)
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Classic Legends working on an affordable electric motorcycle
Pratheek Kunder; September 18, 2023, 01:44 PM IST
https://www.bikewale.com/news/classic-legends-working-on-an-affordable-electric-motorcycle/?utm_source=BWSubscription&utm_medium=BrowserNotification&utm_campaign=BikewaleWebNotification&utm_term=157785
Classic Legends is planning to join the green and clean bandwagon. The company has started working on a new electric bike project that will debut globally in 2024.
According to a report, this new EV is being co-developed with the University of Warwick and will be positioned as the most affordable electric motorcycle in the segment. It is yet to be known whether the electric bike will be launched under BSA or other Classic Legends brands. However, since this EV is being developed for the UK and other European markets, it is likely to carry the BSA brand.
Classic Legends’ direct rival, Royal Enfield, is also working on a range of electric motorcycles. However, this company is looking to launch premium EVs first, followed by affordable versions. This route is being taken so that the brand can also showcase its technology expertise and bring in products that come with excellent riding range. For that to happen, the battery capacity has to be big, which means the overall pricing will be higher.
Currently, Classic Legends sells several motorcycles in India under Jawa and Yezdi. Over the last few months, it has also upgraded its bikes, which could help the brand attract more consumers. Sadly, it currently has no plans to introduce an EV in India.
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CSC ES5 launched as speedy seated electric scooter, taking shot at the major competition
https://electrek.co/2023/06/28/csc-es5-launched-as-speedy-seated-electric-scooter/
At 52.8 mph (85 km/h), this electric scooter splits the difference with enough speed to take riders on pretty much any road in the city. Urban highways might be within the question, though interstates aren’t likely to be a fun experience on a 52 mph scooter.
With urban commuter-level speeds, the CSC ES5 is obviously meant for daily commuting and utility riding, not pleasure cruises. But it’s still quite peppy with a 5 kW belt-driving centrally mounted motor. That’s the continuous power, too. The peak power is rated at 8 kW.
And the ride is likely to last for a while too, thanks to a set of three 60V and 31Ah lithium-ion batteries. Together, that means riders get 5.58 kWh of capacity, but divided into batteries small enough to carry inside for charging if you don’t already have a convenient garage charging option (I see you, fellow apartment dwellers!).
CSC says that the scooter’s range at a steady 31 mph (50 km/h) is around 68 miles (110 km). In my experience, CSC generally gives realistic performance figures that are often even slightly lower than what riders actually achieve in real-world conditions. It’s a nice departure from the industry standard of quoting amazing performance specs measured in a vacuum with an 80 lb. rider going full tuck in a spandex body suit.
Now if you’re cruising at the scooter’s 53 mph top speed all the time, you definitely won’t achieve that full 68 miles of range. But since very few cities are 68 miles across, you’ll probably be fine with enough range to last for a few days of riding.
https://www.rideapart.com/news/677784/csc-ert3-electric-scooter-launch-usa/
In the real world, this translates to a top speed of 75 miles per hour, according to CSC. Complementing this highway-capable performance is a 72-volt automotive-grade ternary polymer lithium battery pack with 96 ampere hours of capacity. Said battery is claimed to offer up to 124 miles of range at an average speed of 32 miles per hour.
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Here is more information regarding Honda's new Motocompacto, along with pictures of the old 1980's Motorcompo, which I think looks a lot nicer than the Compacto. The MSRP for the Motocompacto is $995. The Motocompacto will be arriving at Honda and Acura car dealerships in November. https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/s-honda-motocompacto-in-pictures-44594764
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Here is more information regarding Honda's new Motocompacto, along with pictures of the old 1980's Motorcompo, which I think looks a lot nicer than the Compacto. The MSRP for the Motocompacto is $995. The Motocompacto will be arriving at Honda and Acura car dealerships in November. https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/s-honda-motocompacto-in-pictures-44594764
Please , no, stop it !😬
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Finally an e-bike for the "boot"... ;D ...you know, as opposed to the "bonnet". :o
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But is it carry on luggage ?
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Kawasaki has announced their two new "125cc-class" production electric motorcycles to be marketed in Europe. Here is the news, including full specifications - except for pricing: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/new-model-preview/2024-kawasaki-ninja-e-1-and-z-e-1-announced-for-europe-44594830
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Regenerative braking = GOOD! ;D
In Road mode, the Ninja and Z e-1 claim a range of 45 miles, but judicious use of Eco mode and the regenerative braking can help extend that range.
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Pushing probably will extend the range, too. ;)
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Pushing probably will extend the range, too. ;)
🤣
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Only ever ride downhill with a tailwind. Does wonders for fuel consumption or battery range.
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https://cscmotorcycles.com/rx1e-electric-motorcycle/
RX1E Electric Motorcycle; $8,495.00
Sale Price $7,988
"With 6.16 kWh of juice on tap, you can expect up to 80 miles of range depending on the power mode, rider's weight, and riding style."
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Regenerative braking = GOOD! ;D
In Road mode, the Ninja and Z e-1 claim a range of 45 miles, but judicious use of Eco mode and the regenerative braking can help extend that range.
Articles on regenerative braking that I've seen cite high theoretical recovery efficiencies, but then comes the disclaimers and the hand waving, and the net/net is considerably watered down language like the "can help extend range" that you used. It's quite true it can, but what they neglect to point out is that regen. can only be accomplished on DRIVEN wheels, in the case of most E-motos, that means one would be braking only with the rear wheel, which means it's perhaps only useful for the sort of braking that we do on our petrol powered machines via engine drag.
Intense rear wheel ONLY braking leads rapidly to control issues, and front wheel only braking is potentially even scarier, so any intense deceleration will require the wasteful "other wheel" friction brake to be put into action. Even without the safety concerns, intense energy transfer rates might exceed the ability of the wires to conduct it, or the ability of the battery to absorb it. It's been customary for quite some time that our vehicles can brake faster than we accelerate, and we drive accordingly. To benefit from regen, one would have to get out of that mindset. Unless acceleration rates are artificially limited, braking via regen can only be slower than acceleration rates.
Also, those "high" (50-65%) theoretical recovery numbers from the articles that tend to stick in our heads, generally don't mention the subsequent reconversion from electrical into mechanical energy, which is has a similar efficiency. We'll get perhaps 50% of 60% = 30% after the re-reconversion. That last number is consistent with real world testing on electric cars. https://www.mdpi.com/2032-6653/13/11/202
And let's not forget, we can't simply run the motor in reverse. We need to boost voltage to overcome the battery's internal resistance so it takes a charge, requiring a dedicated converter circuit, adding to cost and complexity.
From what I've read, regenerative braking is most productive for heavy, high speed vehicles that seldom stop. Trains come to mind, but even these give real world results quite a bit lower than what I think people imagine. https://www.ctc-n.org/technologies/regenerative-braking-trains#:~:text=When%20regenerative%20braking%20is%20employed,breaking%20is%20a%20mature%20technology.
30% recovery seems about the best one can expect, on average, for passenger vehicles that have 4 wheels and somewhat optimized, state of the art regen systems. E-bicycles do much worse, something like 4-8% from the reports I've read.
For the time being, my feeling is that regenerative braking is there primarily to sell E vehicles to folks who understand the concept, but don't want to dig deeper into the math. Personally, if given the choice, I'd rather spend my E-moto purchase dollars, and my weight budget, on additional power storage capacity, and skip regen. One less thing to break.
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I have had 5 electric motorcycles with regen. In my experience you only get about a 2% maximum power input into your battery over a typical ride. It seems as though the heavier the vehicle, such as a car compared with a motorcycle, the more efficient is regen. I have my Zero set up to coast without regen with the throttle closed and that gives me the best range, compared with having it programmed for "100%" regen.
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I have had 5 electric motorcycles with regen. In my experience you only get about a 2% maximum power input into your battery over a typical ride. It seems as though the heavier the vehicle, such as a car compared with a motorcycle, the more efficient is regen. I have my Zero set up to coast without regen with the throttle closed and that gives me the best range, compared with having it programmed for "100%" regen.
It seems to me that the place regen. is valuable, is for traveling in hilly or mountainous areas, where a lot of energy is spent going UP, and WASTED going down because speed, and therefore energy recovery, needs to be limited for SAFETY reasons. Testing in such conditions will show the technology to be quite valuable, testing on the flat, much less so.
Our Colorado brethren get the benefits or regen, flatlanders like myself, here in Chicago, which I'm told used to be a primordial swamp, we don't really much need it. I've commuted to the office many times on my bicycle without using my brake AT ALL, (and it's a coaster brake!) Now THAT is efficiency!
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Only ever ride downhill with a tailwind. Does wonders for fuel consumption or battery range.
You should then at least be able to reach 70 mph on the 350 Classic !
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Regenerative braking works well in town, the Toyota hybrids have proven this beyond doubt over many years. Battery capacity is a trade off not really intended for for mountain use. It'd be hard to carry a battery large enough to do much good recovering the energy available on a long downhill. Usually my batteries are "full bars" 1/3 to 1/2 the way down a long grade after a climb up the mountain. Nothing another 800 pounds or so of battery wouldn't fix, right? :o ;D
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Regenerative braking works well in town, the Toyota hybrids have proven this beyond doubt over many years. Battery capacity is a trade off not really intended for for mountain use.
Regen on a Toyota hybrid is recovering energy that initially came from burning gasoline. If nobody measures the gasoline used, I'm sure it seems like a great system. If the energy to get UP the mountain had come from the battery in the first place, there would be plenty of capacity for it to go back into the battery while coming DOWN, with 50% or more unfilled, because both conversions are quite a bit less than 100% efficient.
They will no doubt build charging stations on the top of mountains someday, but thinking people won't be patronizing them.
As Richard230, who has probably the most experience with E-motos in our group, points out, he gets best range by NOT using regen. Instead of inefficiently harvesting it, he leaves his once converted electricity in its kinetic mechanical form. The most efficient travel mode doesn't use brakes at all, like me on my klunker bicycle, carefully timing my man-powered runs to the lights. We won't get efficiencies of the future by racing from light to light like the kids in American Grafitti, regardless of the technology employed.
Governments are funding AI self-driving tech. not only because it's the key to protecting us from ourselves, but also the key to energy efficient individual surface travel.
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Regen on a Toyota hybrid is recovering energy that initially came from burning gasoline.
True enough. But then you stop at a traffic signal. Regen converts at least some kinetic energy back to electrical energy. Part of the recovered energy gets used to accelerate the vehicle back up to the posted road speed, reducing the total amount of fuel used. Instead of just converting all your kinetic energy to brake heat you get to store & reuse it. Hybrids generally have better MPG around town. They work. Nissan Leafs manage as well as they do because they have regenerative capability.
Normal street traffic flow precludes elaborate energy saving gliding exercises. If the actual idea was to save energy we'd all be riding electric trollies on steel rails like the L.A. Red Cars, not individually owned & operated private vehicles in the tens of millions. That's mostly entertainment, not real need.
Self-driving vehicles are a dead end. Why buy a piece of a commuter train, bus or taxi cab when you can rent by the mile? How repairable is a piece of complex old electronics? Why would you put yourself inside a piece of high value electronics that can be forced to a stop anywhere by a couple of "smash & grab" artists in Yugos looking to cash in on the wallet you are carrying?
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Normal street traffic flow precludes elaborate energy saving gliding exercises. If the actual idea was to save energy we'd all be riding electric trollies on steel rails like the L.A. Red Cars, not individually owned & operated private vehicles in the tens of millions. That's mostly entertainment, not real need.
It is more driven by a desire to be anti-social and avoid mixing with strangers. The same anti-social tendency that drives people, with the means, to live on 5 or 10 acre hobby blocks and work from home - resulting in millions of acres of prime agricultural land being sold off as live style blocks (at a huge profit for developers who do not need to put in roads and facilities) and forever after. growing decorative trees and shrubs or maybe running the occasional pet llama instead of producing food.
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Normal street traffic flow precludes elaborate energy saving gliding exercises. If the actual idea was to save energy we'd all be riding electric trollies on steel rails like the L.A. Red Cars, not individually owned & operated private vehicles in the tens of millions. That's mostly entertainment, not real need.
That depends on what is the norm. Have a look at this video showing 9 minutes of traffic at a very busy urban intersection. Most of the travelers on their private vehicles never touch their brakes, and for the most part the traffic flows freely in both directions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqQSwQLDIK8
I'd guesstimate the MPG average across all the vehicles we see during the video, to be in the neighborhood off 500 mpg.
It's just a very different, and very energy efficient, norm.
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The infernal combustion vehicles idling in "Drive" and waiting to cross the street aren't getting 500 MPG. That's EV/Hybrid territory. The electric motor isn't constantly using power pushing against a fluid filled torque converter shoving against the brakes. That's precisely why Hybrids get better MPG in town, the "stop 'n go" situations. The electric motor takes care of the casual start/stop activity using otherwise lost & wasted kinetic energy saved when decelerating. It draws power on real demand only.
There's lots of societies that have lower energy consumption per capita than "Los Estados Unidos". You personally don't have a stick big enough to re-educate the general population here. Probably that's going to take some self-inflicted extinction-level event. From the looks of the South Pacific and the Black Sea, we may not have long to wait. :P
" It is more driven by a desire to be anti-social and avoid mixing with strangers. "
People if given the option normally don't like to be crowded in. Lots of them have adapted to it, but historically crowding brings rapid disease & parasite spreading opportunities, resource depletion and conflict. That's hardwired into us.
The "Gilded Enclaves" you are properly dismissive of are a result of unregulated capitalism more than anything else. These folks view the property as a display of wealth & power, not a survival resource. An extension of that is US agribusiness running off all the family farmers and the "Gummint' does nothing about it, courtesy of about 3000 well heeled Washington DC lobbyists. Always a bad idea to concentrate your food production in the hands of a few amoral multinational venture capitalists. Didn't work out so well in the Dust Bowl 1930's either.
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The electric motor isn't constantly using power pushing against a fluid filled torque converter shoving against the brakes.
I have always found the American obsession with automatic gearboxes, even in Muscle cars, a bit odd to say the least.
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The infernal combustion vehicles idling in "Drive" and waiting to cross the street aren't getting 500 MPG. That's EV/Hybrid territory. The electric motor isn't constantly using power pushing against a fluid filled torque converter shoving against the brakes.
Of course they don't. No hybrid passenger vehicle comes close to 500 mpg, I haven't even heard of any even achieving 100 mpg.
The point of my efficiency estimate was that in the alternative norm I was presenting, bicycles are counted as vehicles, and they outnumbered all the scooters and motos, and obviously the cars, by at least 10 to 1. Human powered bicycles get the equivalent of about 1000 mpg, converting the caloric content of human food to it's petrol equivalent. It's more expensive to fuel up, but more fun too.
The cars and vans in that video were waiting patiently, because they are the low men on the totem pole in that alternative norm. Any collision is, by law, the fault of the auto, so the car drivers are incredibly patient and careful. But, as I've heard, these laws are not forced on society, it is because they collectively favor the bicycle. It's said that every driver in Amsterdam was first a bicyclist.
There is nothing elaborate about saving energy on a bicycle. You don't pedal into a stoplight, and you adjust your speed and maneuver as you pass through an intersection to interleave with other riders traveling the opposite direction or merging. There's no wasting energy on braking, because the best riders don't require their brakes and the very very best, ride fixies, which have no brakes.
It's quite simple, as demonstrated by the video, you eliminate the stops and you eliminate the energy wasted braking for them. The interleaving chaos we saw in the video was manageable for the slow moving, precisely controlled and highly maneuverable bicycles, (although the tourists seem to have some problems), but probably won't work for larger, faster moving vehicles, especially with a driver who is distractedly poking at their cell phone.
But, what could manage to interleave vehicles, traveling in opposite and various directions, at high rates of speed, is a computer that had control over all of them. The passengers could poke at their phones to their hearts content, and shave 50% off their commute time to boot.
Honestly, even with the car traffic and within our "normal traffic" system, I can, as a 64 year old man not in particularly great physical condition, already beat my automobile commute time, while riding a 1947 balloon tire, single speed heavyweight. This is because achievable speed is a far less important component in total commute time than that wasted at traffic control devices. The bicycle never has to wait for more than one cycle at a given traffic light, something which is definitely NOT true of any 4 wheeled vehicles in the queue. It can also legally pass THROUGH red lights, within certain restrictions.
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What about those 100 mpg carburetors that were invented and sold to suckers in the 1930's. ;D
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I agree that bicycles use less gas than automobiles. There's practically nowhere in the USA that you can routinely mass commute by bicycle to work or do some significant grocery getting. The living spaces and work locations are almost always too far apart. Roads aren't generally set up to accommodate significant bicycle traffic. In lots of the USA bike-suitable seasonal weather is very limited. Phoenix comes to mind. I'm sure Atlanta or Dallas aren't any picnic either. Work often begins or ends in the dark, a consistently lethal time for bicyclists. Anyone that needs to carry significant work tooling basically is locked in to private vehicle ownership. You generally have to be a real bicycle enthusiast to commute regularly by bicycle. Recreational cycling is another story, but you still have to pick your path and time.
Your Holland example was interesting, but in Amurrika it would require a complete rebuild of our entire system to get anywhere near that. And a big dose of Hollands deluxe public transportation infrastructure. Meanwhile the Toyota Prius drivers will still be getting +50 MPG while the single-occupant F250 4x4 Diesel Duelly crowd will be enjoying 12-15 MPG before "rolling coal" on that pack of weekend amateur bike racers he's overtaking & passing on a blind curve.
https://www.holland.com/global/tourism/getting-around/information/public-transport.htm
Holland is a small and densely populated country with an excellent public transport system. Wherever in Holland you want to go, you can get there easily and in comfort by train, bus, tram or ferry.
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On the local radio news this morning was a report about ER doctors in Marin County (a rather well-off community located north of San Francisco) complaining about the number of teenagers who are getting into accidents riding their e-bikes without helmets and at high speeds (and likely doing other crazy things that teenagers do). They want stricter laws limiting the age of riding an e-bike to people over 16 and better enforcement of speeds and other crazy things that teenagers do. (Good luck with that.) The report also claimed that many e-bikes can hit speeds of 28 mph, but some owners have found ways of increasing their speeds to as high as 45 mph. They want the ability to modify e-bikes prevented to stop this practice. (Good luck with that, too.)
In my town there are lots of both teenagers and adults riding e-bikes and I haven't noticed much crazy activity. What I do notice is that there are now about three times as many people riding e-bikes than push bikes. And since you do not need them registered with the DMV or need a driver's license to ride them, the cops are not interested in cracking down on riders as it would be just too much effort and paperwork, plus the opportunity to fine the riders is very limited. Frankly the horses have pretty much left the barn. ;)
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(https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30931.0;attach=83630;image)
My first bicycles required license plates. If I recall, the paperwork (name / address) was tied to the family car registration.
This one wasn't mine. I wasn't even born yet. (just say'n)
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That used to be the case in CA, too. I think it was administered by local city police departments. But some point in the past it just became too much trouble for the cops to be bothered with and the program died out, at least in the SF Bay Area, where bicycles are stolen as fast as you can buy them. >:(
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I'll step out and make a wild prediction: E-Bikes will be built (by law) with the equivalent of a ignition key. It will be digital and enabled by satellite beacons.
That beacon will be able to regulate max speed, geo-fencing, etc. It will even be able to robotically "brick" the bicycle back to a pedal bike for any number of reasons.
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I agree that bicycles use less gas than automobiles. There's practically nowhere in the USA that you can routinely mass commute by bicycle to work or do some significant grocery getting. The living spaces and work locations are almost always too far apart. Roads aren't generally set up to accommodate significant bicycle traffic. In lots of the USA bike-suitable seasonal weather is very limited. Phoenix comes to mind. I'm sure Atlanta or Dallas aren't any picnic either. Work often begins or ends in the dark, a consistently lethal time for bicyclists. Anyone that needs to carry significant work tooling basically is locked in to private vehicle ownership. You generally have to be a real bicycle enthusiast to commute regularly by bicycle. Recreational cycling is another story, but you still have to pick your path and time.
Your Holland example was interesting, but in Amurrika it would require a complete rebuild of our entire system to get anywhere near that. And a big dose of Hollands deluxe public transportation infrastructure. Meanwhile the Toyota Prius drivers will still be getting +50 MPG while the single-occupant F250 4x4 Diesel Duelly crowd will be enjoying 12-15 MPG before "rolling coal" on that pack of weekend amateur bike racers he's overtaking & passing on a blind curve.
I think your info is out of date. The face of bicycle commuting has been changing over the last few decades. The pandemic gave it quite a boost, as people sought to get out of public transport and onto something more personal, but affordable. And the federal government gave cycling a nice promotion when the Consumer Products Safety Act was amended to recognize E-bikes in their 3 classes, as bicycles, and not motor vehicles, back in 2002. This led the way for other entities, such as states and the National Parks, to craft their own policies for the new vehicle form.
As things stand now, bicycles represent about 0.6% of transportation used for commuting in the USA. That's six times the rate of motorcycle commuting, which comes in at about 0.1%. But, while motorcycle use in the USA has generally been declining since 2006, bicycle riding rates are up and coming. So, for example, in New York, where the rate of bicycle commuting is reported as 0.69%, almost 9% of commuters reported using a bicycle at least once during 2019. (likely on Bike to Work Day?) But, the other 91% weren't in cars, public transportation use is something like 45-50% in NYC, and motorcycle use is higher there also, vs anytown, USA.
Here in Chicago, we will soon be reaching 500 miles of bicycle friendly roadway. https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/cdot/provdrs/bike/svcs/cdot-bike-network.html Another benefit of bicycles vs. other ways of getting around here, is that the public transportation system accommodates bikes. Buses, and trains all have space for bicycles, and there is no additional cost to bring your bike along. I used this fact as an alternative to a flat repair on one commute.
And the list of cities where bicycle riding rates are growing fastest, might surprise you. Burlington sure, but Wichita? https://www.goodgoodgood.co/articles/best-cities-for-bike-commuting#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20U.S.%20Census,big%2C%20that%27s%20because%20it%20is.
According to current definitions of the terms, 80% of the US population reside in urban areas. The guy coming out to fix your commercial HVAC will probably show up driving an air conditioned truck or van, but, it really doesn't HAVE to be that way.
https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/12zo5hm/handyman_on_a_cargo_bike/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/491173903082109950/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/49750770875342320/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/162551867780252500/
https://www.alamy.com/man-with-mobile-bicycle-repair-business-repairing-bike-on-city-sidewalk-street-chicago-illinois-united-states-of-america-image328294487.html
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/will-e-cargo-bikes-take-over-last-mile-delivery
I'm glad, that after ninety something pages of randomness, we are finally getting around to talking about the type of Light Electric Vehicles, that I created this thread to discuss.
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To your point, here's the Mercedes E-Sprinter at around $80K, 2600 pound haul capacity, A/C, up to 75 MPH & with +200 mile range. Money better spent than on a Tesla, IMHO. Fun for the whole tribe. Many illustrations show a PV roof on these boxy vans, a nice feature on an outing. Effectively anyone with significant Grid-tie PV capacity drives for free. In PG&E territory that ginormus battery could make some "grid ancillary support" income even just sitting in your driveway as a PHEV.
https://insideevs.com/news/684137/2024-mercedes-benz-esprinter-starts-74181-usd-113-kwh-battery/#:~:text=Now%2C%20it's%20worth%20pointing%20out,E%2DTransit%20with%20148%2Dinch
This means the actual EPA-estimated range will be lower, probably in the ballpark of 200 miles.
The all-new eSprinter features the familiar Sprinter design and product highlights, offering a load capacity of 488 cubic feet, a maximum payload of 2,624 pounds, and a permissible gross vehicle weight of 4.25 tons. The electric van can be upfitted to a mobile workshop or a spacious delivery van.
Solutions from the brand's eXpertUpfitter program, such as shelving systems, workbenches, or heavy-duty wood floors for heavy loads, offer further available customization options for the load compartment.
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There are alternatives ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBJI4l3jJyo
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By Hugo Gernsbacks beard Sir!! ;D ;D ;D
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Be a First Adopter!
Brand New CAKE Makka Flex - $3,895 (santa cruz)
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/mcy/d/santa-cruz-brand-new-cake-makka-flex/7661213751.html
Brand new CAKE Makka Flex
https://ridecake.com/en-US/p/makka
PERFECT condition!!! Title in hand. Includes blue upper and lower windshield and rear carrier. $3895
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got this for my birthday 16 months ago, i ride it 3 to 6 miles around the side streets of my little town for fun most evenings. ecotric vortex, was $700, currently selling for about $550 if you shop wal-mart's e-commerce site. meanwhile i'm very sceptical of e-motorcycles and e-cars. i don't think they're ready for prime time, may never be with this battery technology.
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A couple of months ago I bought an Aniioki AQ117 electric bicycle. It claims a range of 100 miles on electric power only, no doubt on level ground, which is hard to come by around here. It has a number of nice features that I like, including a stop light, electric horn, a large motorcycle-size headlight, rear turn indicators, a motorcycle seat, motorcycle size brake rotors, hydraulic brakes, 48V (shows 54V on the dash display), 60Ah battery, 8 amp charger and a comprehensive dash display that is all but impossible to read on a sunny day but is great at night. The motor is 750 watts, peaking at 1200 watts. It also has dual rear coil-over shock motorcycle-type suspension and the front forks have a preload adjustment feature. That is a lot of e-bike for $1500 when on sale. And no shipping or sales tax are charged when ordered directly from the company.
It has 20" fat tires, which I really don't like. I much prefer 26" size tires. Not surprisingly, most of the components are unbranded and I have yet to see a UL certification on anything. So that is how they kept the price low while providing all of those features. The company HQ is located in Hong Kong, but they ship their bikes from a warehouse in the U.S.
I fit my Aniioki with a front generic bicycle basket and placed some old motorcycle luggage on the rear rack. I am using it to go grocery shopping every week at the Grocery Outlet store located 3.5 miles away and to get to other locations around town. I should also mention that the bike really does need electric power assist as it weighs around 130 pounds on my scale. Photos attached.
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Brand New CAKE Makka Flex - $3,895 (santa cruz)
Finally, they are making something that doesn't look like it was designed by a kid with a Lego set.
This reminds me of the Cushman Highlander.
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And here is another interesting new model from Kawasaki with a 451cc ICE twin supplemented by an electric motor: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/new-model-preview/2024-kawasaki-ninja-7-hybrid-first-look-44595262
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Kawasaki claims the Ninja 7 Hybrid will be the first mass produced motorcycle (excluding scooters) from a major manufacturer with a “strong hybrid” system, meaning it can run on gas, electricity, or a combination of the two.
Go test drive a Lexus RX450H. The hybrid system lets the engine torque and the battery/motor system combine to shuffle you ahead quite smartly when you stomp the volume control. Regenerative braking helps on the fuel efficiency side. Whether you like it or not, the tech works well in the real world. But it just has to be heavier than a normal 600 sport bike.
Personally I don't believe that sport riders will flock to a heavy, fuel efficient sportbike, but possibly if repackaged as a UJM-ish standard or touring machine it might sell to folks that might appreciate a high MPG full size bike. In any event the hybrid R&D tech won't be lost.
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And here is another interesting new model from Kawasaki with a 451cc ICE twin supplemented by an electric motor: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/new-model-preview/2024-kawasaki-ninja-7-hybrid-first-look-44595262
That seems more interesting and does look like a decently styled machine.
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Here is another article regarding the Ninja 7 hybrid, which mentions that it will be marketed in the EU and the UK starting in January of next year. Pricing has still not been determined: https://thepack.news/kawasaki-introduces-the-all-new-strong-hybrid-motorcycle-ninja-7-hev/
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Meanwhile Suzuki dips its little toe into the prototype EV waters with a 125 e-Burgman scooter: https://thepack.news/suzuki-announced-e-burgman-electric-scooter-prototype-for-japan-mobility-show-2023/
So isn't it about time that Honda did something dramatic in the way of an electric motorcycle? Or are they just hanging back to see how hot (or cold) is the two-wheel EV market?
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There's still that battery thing where it takes 100-200 pounds of batteries to replace 6 pounds of liquid hydrocarbon fuel. Adding 300-600 pounds of weight to gain perhaps 200-250 miles of range is a hard sell.
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This is kind of a neat EV conversion. Not much of a battery pack, though: https://thepack.news/64-honda-c200-retrofit-by-moto-design-garage/
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I'd like to see the shop bill for that custom Honda. :o
https://cscmotorcycles.com/2023-csc-monterey-electric-scooter/
SPECIFICATIONS
Motor DC brushless
Max. Power 2.4 kilowatts (kW)
Max Torque 120N.m / 88ft/lb
Nominal Power 1500 watts (1.5kW)
Max. Speed 30 mph
Climbing Ability 10° uphill slope
Battery Type Lithium
Battery Capacity 60 volts / 26 amp-hours (Ah)
Battery Weight 22 lbs
Input Voltage 110V-220V, 3-stage charger
Range *Between 20 and 60 miles
Dimensions 74.4 x 26.8 x 40.2 inches
Brakes (F/R) Drum/drum
Tires 70/90-17F, 80/90-17R
Seat Height 30 inches
Wheelbase 48.6 inches
Ground Clearance 5.5 inches
Curb Weight 181 pounds
Max. Capacity 331 pounds
Warranty One year
Price $2,395 (+$410 doc and set-up**)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnjSw32jEy0
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And now BMW dips its toe into the city commuter electric motorcycle arena. Lots of Chinese competition in that market. It looks like they are trying to keep the cost down by having it manufactured in India: https://electrek.co/2023/10/12/bmw-begins-production-of-its-lowest-cost-electric-motorcycle-yet/
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The Tote Goat claws its way back from oblivion! ;D ;D ;D
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/pictures/2024-bmw-ce-02-eparkour/4/
Powered by an 11-kW electric motor, the CE 02 has a range of around 56 miles and a top speed of 59 mph.
Targeted at new and young riders, the CE 02's all electric performance leans more modest. It features two 1.96 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion batteries that feed an 11-kilowatt electric motor. Peak output is stated at 15 horsepower and 40.6 pound-feet of torque, good enough for a 0-to-30 mph hustle in 3.0 seconds and a top speed of around 59 mph.
The electric bike features automatic stability control and recuperation stability control to help new riders balance the belt-driven torque, as well as front-wheel antilock braking. There are also up to four drive modes that further fine-tune throttle response and regeneration. Flow and Surf are standard, while the sporty Flash mode is part of the Highline upgrade package. Both trims also feature a power saving mode that limits power to around 4 kW, increasing range by an undisclosed amount.
Charging on a standard household outlet with the included 0.9 kW charger gets you from 20% to 80% in around 170 minutes or around 140 minutes on the Highline's faster 1.5 kW charger. With a full charge, riders can expect an estimated range of 56 miles -- plenty for a day's worth of ripping around a city.
The 2024 BMW CE 02 starts at $8,194 including destination. That's almost $5,000 less than Beemer's other EV, the CE04, making this the least expensive "urban mobility" scooter in BMW Motorrad's current lineup. However, the eParkour is still pricey relative to traditionally shaped electric scooters offering similar range. Riders can decide whether the promise of style and performance is worth the extra cost when the 2024 BMW CE 02 arrives in the US in the coming months.
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The Tote Goat claws its way back from oblivion! ;D ;D ;D
That Briggsy / Tecumsehesque shape couldn't have been a coincidence! Who would have guessed that the mini bike would ever be considered "premium styled". I guess when all you can buy are OHC Honda designs, the good old side valve becomes the height of chic.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1115353_the-mini-bike-from-dumb-and-dumber-is-up-for-sale
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The CE02 sure doesn't look like a "beast of burden" like I would want for city trips to go shopping and other chores. Plus, it doesn't appear to have a helmet lock, which means that you have to carry around your helmet or buy a backpack that will allow you to carry the helmet on you back. (And look like a humpback. ::) )
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it doesn't appear to have a helmet lock, which means that you have to carry around your helmet or buy a backpack that will allow you to carry the helmet on you back. (And look like a humpback. ::) )
Where I live helmets aren't required for legally riding, only eye protection. This means that us cool kids can hang our lids by their strap over one end of the handlebar. Somebody might steal mine ironically, or for a goof to smash, but I can't imagine anyone looking at the worn, shabby fabric lining with the gray hairs clinging inside, and actually wanting to put that thing on their head. Maybe if their buddy dared them, and offered them $10?
We also imagine that our helmets hanging carelessly from the bike, (even when our bikes HAVE helmet locks) sends the message that, "the guy who owns this bike is very VERY close by, is perhaps watching, and is just looking for somebody to whale on.", and that this perhaps protects the bike, which I need to get home, at the expense of the helmet, which I don't need. I'm more careful with my sunglasses, which are legally required.
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Here is the latest MCN review of the new Kawasaki Ninja 7 Hybrid after riding the bike. Not too exciting and very expensive for what you get: https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/kawasaki/ninja-7-hybrid/2024/
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqF55MjU9jc
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Welcome to the Future.
This Enphase widget gets from PV array to vehicle. Charge controller & voltage matching.
https://enphase.com/ev-chargers/home
https://enphase.com/ev-chargers/find-an-ev-charger
It can also push stored power from your car (EV, Hybrid) onto the grid. This might save purchase of a seperate "Powerwall" battery. There are profits to be made from providing "ancillary services" to the grid, as well as erasing your night time power consumption from the grid. Your PV covers you during the day, but you'd need a good surplus to cover 16 hours of non-generation time.
https://enphase.com/ev-chargers/bidirectional
https://enphase.com/download/bidirectional-ev-charger-white-paper
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Here is Revzilla's take on the Kawasaki Ninja 7 hybrid after riding it for a day during the introduction of this new model: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2024-kawasaki-ninja-7-hybrid-first-ride-review
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Here is a detailed review of the 2024 Honda Motocompacto: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/manufacturer/honda/2024-honda-motocompacto-review-first-ride-44596165
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The obvious solution to range (bikes are too small to fit enough batteries and traditional and cars are t0o heavy) is to market more electric Tuk Tuk style 3 wheelers.
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The obvious solution to range (bikes are too small to fit enough batteries and traditional and cars are t0o heavy) is to market more electric Tuk Tuk style 3 wheelers.
Or trikes !
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Here is a very positive review by MCN of the Livewire S2 Del Mar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2WziX-c4CE
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Royal Enfield Himalayan Electric concept unveiled!
Neil Nair; November 07, 2023
https://www.bikewale.com/news/royal-enfield-himalayan-electric-concept-unveiled/?utm_source=BWSubscription&utm_medium=BrowserNotification&utm_campaign=BikewaleWebNotification&utm_term=164339
- Showcased at EICMA 2023
- Is a platform for future e-mobility
- Could be launched by 2025
Royal Enfield has officially taken the wraps off the Himalayan Electric Concept at the EICMA 2023 alongside the Himalayan 452.
While specs and details of the electric motorcycle haven’t been disclosed, the reveal showed the e-Himalayan concept being ridden somewhere in the mountains, off the road and even on it. But more importantly, it showcased the design, or rather what we can expect from the production model.
Unsurprisingly, the Royal Enfield Electric Himalayan concept borrows heavily from the new Himalayan 452 and comes with sleek styling. It gets a circular, full-LED headlamp with a large windscreen and an interesting-looking tank that flows directly into a single-piece seat. Underneath, it houses the tightly packed electric motor. The concept also comes fitted with chunky upside-down forks at the front and what looks like an adjustable rear shock.
Royal Enfield has also revealed that the real-world testing as well as wind tunnel testing for the Himalayan Electric has been in the process for a few years now but we can only expect the motorcycle to debut in production form by 2025. For now, we have the option to choose the Himalayan 452 which seems like a massive leap from the Himalayan 411 that will be discontinued this month.
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https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/ubco-2x2/
Two-wheel drive for under £5000: New UBCO electric adventurer packs a range of 75 miles
Created by two kiwi inventors in a shed in New Zealand, a new range of two-wheel drive electric motorbikes have been built by a firm called UBCO to tackle tough terrains without the noise of petrol-driven alternatives. And they are on sale in the UK now.
Starting at £4499 for the 2×2 Work and climbing to £4999 for the 2×2 Adventure, both offer a range of up to 75 miles. Although the motors and chassis parts are the same, only the Adventure can be ridden on the road, with the Work designed as a workhorse for use on farmland.
Providing power is a 1kW brushless DC air-cooled motor on each wheel, with a top speed of around 30mph. Designed more for slow, steady traction over obstacles, there are multiple capacity options for the removable battery – with a choice of 2.1kWh, 2.6kWh, or 3.1kWh outputs. Range is a claimed 65 to 75 miles with a charge time to 95% of four to six hours.
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So basically a step through.
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new icon dealer in my little town, golf carts and 2 models of e-bike, with one hub motor or 2. https://iconev.com/product-category/e-bikes/
is it just me, or are web sites nowadays poorly organized? or maybe it's intentional, to make you dig several pages deep to get to the technical info you're looking for?
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A 1 Kw motor is not going to be very helpful on a farm. ::)
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Providing power is a 1kW brushless DC air-cooled motor on each wheel.
Arrrgh! I'll have to "double down" here I guess...That's a whopping 2.680965 BHP. Anyone that's spent time wrangling horses can attest to the damage/consternation ONE horse alone can provide, let alone 2.7 of the wiley beasts.
https://ubco.com/pages/2x2-hunt-edition
YewTewbe: Introducing the UBCO 2X2 Hunt Edition Electric Motorbike with Shane Dorian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmEtpcL0f0k&list=PLpDmf6ec-QwMwReRY9GsnXVVwYLR5CsBX&index=1
Hunters, meet your new weapon. Purpose-built to elevate your hunting experience, the Hunt Edition delivers unmatched utility and versatility. Discover why it outshines the competition in every way.
Check out what Shane Dorian had to say about the new 2X2 Hunt Edition electric motorbike:
"After bow hunting for 20 years, it's really cool to have a tool like the hunt bike because it doesn't take anything away from my experience as a hunter. It just really adds as a tool to be able to get farther out safely.
The experience of using an electric AWD vehicle to hunt, especially one as tough as the UBCO, is unbeatable - its light, silent, and a blast to ride. I'm excited about where I can get to this season using this bike."
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is it just me, or are web sites nowadays poorly organized? or maybe it's intentional, to make you dig several pages deep to get to the technical info you're looking for?
Content Management Systems like WordPress mean any business owner or admin person can create a website with templates without any web skills. The end result often looks OK when first viewed (though a bit generic) but is clunky and has issues.
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A 1 Kw motor is not going to be very helpful on a farm. ::)
TWO 1 Kwatt motors, one on each wheel is what makes this machine a traction monster. Because those motors are 3 phase powered, with built in position feedback systems, that means that the controller knows exactly where each wheel is in its rotation, and can precisely control power input to each. It can lock them perfectly into synch with each other, or spin one in fixed ratio to another if the wheels are different sizes. This relationship can be held more precisely than any mechanical all wheel drive, and can be adjusted in software, even on the fly, if the engineers have taken advantage of the potential the technology provides.
That's 5.36 horses pulling, by AxCal's reckoning. And because every surface of the machine that is in contact with the ground, is pulling in unison, with nothing skidding or dragging, it's a lot more like a 4 legged beast of burden than any 2 wheeler that we've experienced.
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I doubt the UBCO 2X2 will be as useful and as durable as a Rokon, though. Plus, its range will be much less than the Rokon. Other motorcycle manufacturers have tried two-wheel drive and eventually have given up on the idea before they ever marketed the bike. I think the secret is to keep the top speed down and the gearing low. Having wide, low pressure tires, is also what you need for the best traction on loose and soft ground. Tires like that really suck up the HP.
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Here is a review of the UBCO utility electric motorcycle. It certainly seems well built and would be great for exploring the outdoors. But I have no doubt it is not going to be cheap. Definitely a premium model. But you do seem to get your money's worth - if you can afford it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFySu-jrPL0
A 3.1 KWh battery is not going to get you very far. That is only slightly more electrical capacity than the battery in my Annioki electric bicycle and less than the 3.8 KWh battery in my first electric motorcycle, a 2009 Electric Motorsport GPR-S. That bike had a range of 20 miles at 60 mph, or 35 miles at a speed of 30 mph.
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Here is a review of the Rokon Trailbreaker 2X2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ieSeLmQFOQ
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" I doubt the UBCO 2X2 will be as useful and as durable as a Rokon, though. Plus, its range will be much less than the Rokon. "
Have you ever ridden a Rokon? They are about as "motorcycle-y" as a Japanese hand-steered walk-behind field tractor and as industrial. The UBCO is quiet, relatively light and gets the "aged hunter" a couple miles from his truck & camper. The Rokon has hollow wheels that can double as either flotation or fuel tanks, MPG isn't an issue. You point one at a vertical wall and it scrabbles up to 90 degrees with both wheels clawing, then falls over backwards on you when it finally loses traction. It's a young man's brutal tool "just to prove you can do it". The UBCO is a nice heavy duty electric bike. The 75 mile range is likely with a 90 pound lady-friend riding on flat pavement on a windless day with 50 PSI in the tires, but it still should get you 5 to 10 miles out & back on a jeep road whilst carrying a lunch box.
746 watts per 1 HP; 2 KW / 746 W/HP = 2.681 HP, STILL a lot of horses under your one butt... :o ;D
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Here is a link to a short article regarding the "California Edition" of the Verge TS Pro, which was just introduced at the 2024 LA Auto Show. The company claims 1000 Nm torque, a top speed of 124 mph, a 0-60 mph acceleration of 3.5 seconds, a range of 217 miles, and a recharge time of only 35 minutes: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/news/verge-motorcycles-unveils-the-california-edition-at-la-auto-show-44596726
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Have you ever ridden a Rokon? They are about as "motorcycle-y" as a Japanese hand-steered walk-behind field tractor and as industrial.
Have you seen what those good old boys over east are doing with their two wheeled tractors?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4p-mOf3PFU
Makes a guy want to get himself a rice paddy, just to have an excuse to own one.
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Makes a guy want to get himself a rice paddy, just to have an excuse to own one.
chariot races!
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@ Reply #1469: THAT's some real racing! ;D Looks like everyone's having fun. The cool part to me is the heavy bit that can hurt you leaves when you fall off.
I think in this sport the average Tai would have a real power to weight advantage over the average Amurrikin. ::) Thanks for posting.
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Exclusive: Bajaj Chetak Electric to get bigger battery and more features
Ajinkya Lad; November 30, 2023,
https://www.bikewale.com/news/exclusive-bajaj-chetak-electric-to-get-bigger-battery-and-more-features/?utm_source=BWSubscription&utm_medium=BrowserNotification&utm_campaign=BikewaleWebNotification&utm_term=165789
- To be available in two trims - Urbane and Premium
- To get a bigger 3.2kWh battery pack
- Both trims are likely to offer a higher range
Bajaj Auto is working on an updated iteration of the Chetak Electric. Our sources reveal that the Bajaj Chetak Electric will soon get a bigger battery pack, with a longer range and more features.
The electric scooter will be available in two variants - Urbane and Premium. The top-spec Premium trim will feature a larger 3.2kWh battery pack, offering an ARAI-certified range of 126km. The Chetak Electric is also expected to come equipped with a TFT colour display integrated with turn-by-turn navigation and smartphone connectivity. The display size is expected to be around five to seven inches wide.
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Consumer Reports has published a survey that they obtained by collecting comments from their members who owned electric cars. After studying the results, they concluded that the current batch of electric cars are not as reliable as gas-powered vehicles. See the attached article.
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This is an interesting conversion using an old 1970's BMW R-model boxer chassis, removing the engine and converting it to electric power. It looks like a very clean and thoughtful manufacturing job, but oh those cylinders! Talk about pedestrian slicers! Then there is the projected production price of around 30K Euros. But you would certainly own something unique if you bought one: https://thepack.news/introducing-r01-the-prototype-from-ride-mercury-the-premier-electric-retrofit-solution-for-classic-motorcycles/
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cylinders! Talk about pedestrian slicers!
yeah, what are those, heat sinks? decoration?
range 150 km (*.6=90 mi), 6 hr recharge. what if i want to go 151? it's a toy, not ready for prime time.
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Not a bike as such ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYyiiLmZ0Gs&t=361s&pp=ygUMZWxlY3RyaWMgYnVz
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This is an interesting conversion using an old 1970's BMW R-model boxer chassis, removing the engine and converting it to electric power. It looks like a very clean and thoughtful manufacturing job, but oh those cylinders! Talk about pedestrian slicers!
yeah, what are those, heat sinks? decoration?
This looks to me to be an affectation, just to retain the major design feature of the boxer cylinders. With all the space above and in front of the motor, it's hard to believe that they NEEDED to use that former cylinder space for anything, let alone anything that would be producing beaucoup waste heat.
Kind of the same thing these folks did in creating their take on an electrified airhead: https://thepack.news/lm-creations-from-the-netherlands-presents-their-bmw-ev-conversion-kit/ Looks like the dutch builders just stuck the original heads on long standoffs, to uselessly occupy the same space as the IC engine.
These projects are more one of a kind art, than engineered for production.
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This looks to me to be an affectation,
agree.
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Here is a review from Europe of the LiveWire S2 Del Mar: https://thepack.news/andrew-thijssen-from-bms-e-motorrijder-tested-the-livewire-s2-del-mar-in-the-netherlands/
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or, for what i paid for Pokey,
https://howlingmoto.com/collections/rawrr-bikes?fbclid=IwAR3k81anInBTiQGHrcMjJscw__y1WpN9GYcFvvO5tSMiom8-mlZwiz-H1uk
Range: 160 Km
Top speed: 65km/h
2-3 Hrs recharge time.
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Here is a review from Europe of the LiveWire S2 Del Mar: https://thepack.news/andrew-thijssen-from-bms-e-motorrijder-tested-the-livewire-s2-del-mar-in-the-netherlands/
Another hideous contraption . What are they doing to motorbikes ?!
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There's always this...
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i would really like to like electric transportation. i really would. relatively clean, quiet, there are 2 ebikes in my household, and i find it very pleasant for just riding around town. plug it in when i get home, ride again tomorrow.
what's not to like?
range, for one. recharge time for another. if i want to go the 250 miles to the beach, that's 2 stops of a couple of hours each, each way, essentially doubling my drive time assuming i can find charging stations in rural SC. the ecological and social impact of lithium mining, which i'm led to believe amounts to slave labor by oppressed minorities in asia. one day we'll solve the charging issues, just like we did before there was a gas station on every corner. meanwhile, i have reservations.
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Trikes and sidecars, Tuk Tuks and powered Rickshaw seem the obvious solution .
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Trikes and sidecars, Tuk Tuks and powered Rickshaw seem the obvious solution .
I would love to see Tuk Tuks driving around cities in the U.S. ;D I wonder how they would work out on San Francisco's hills? GM could develop a self-driving Tuk Tuk operated by a ChatGP AI. :o
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I would love to see Tuk Tuks driving around cities in the U.S. ;D I wonder how they would work out on San Francisco's hills? GM could develop a self-driving Tuk Tuk operated by a ChatGP AI. :o
They are, just gotta go to the right city:
- https://etukride.com/denver/public-tours/denver-city-tour/
- https://tuktuk-chicago.com/
- https://bostonrickshaw.com/products/
- https://austinenergy.com/green-power/plug-in-austin/more-ways-to-go-electric/electric-assist-pedicabs
It's been reported that half the rickshaws sold in India last year, were electric. https://jalopnik.com/the-electric-rickshaw-is-taking-over-the-world-just-no-1850303760
This Dutch company makes three flavors, Cargo, Pickup, and Limo. Which would YOU choose?:
https://etukfactory.com/products
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The 700 pounds of battery required to air condition a tuk-tuk in Phoenix/L.A./Dallas might be a deal breaker...
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They'll have us riding around on milk floats .
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Or back to the original transportation...
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Or back to the original transportation...
Even shoes are Electric these days:
https://www.moveelectric.com/e-world/worlds-fastest-shoe-new-moonwalkers-add-electric-power-walking
Each pair weighs around 2kg, and offers a top speed of 7mph with a range of around 6.5 miles. Charging is done via a USB-C cable, with a full charge taking around 90 minutes.
(https://www.moveelectric.com/sites/default/files/styles/article/public/2022-10/shift_moonwalkers_walk1.jpg?itok=VU32OiQ2)
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Speaking of EVs (not motorcycles) I heard this morning on the CBS radio news that electric cars have been selling so slowly this year that U.S. inventories are backed up by 114 days on dealer's lots, compared with gas-powered cars at 73 days.
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Maybe a good time for the city dwellers with PV to get that grocery getter Leaf, Bolt, Nero or Ionique.
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Speaking of EVs (not motorcycles) I heard this morning on the CBS radio news that electric cars have been selling so slowly this year that U.S. inventories are backed up by 114 days on dealer's lots, compared with gas-powered cars at 73 days.
i think that the pluses of e-cars looked really good and pulled in the early adopters, but now that reality is sinking in, not so much. i believe over the next couple of years they'll get better and the infrastructure will improve, and they'll make more sense.
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Even shoes are Electric these days:
(https://www.moveelectric.com/sites/default/files/styles/article/public/2022-10/shift_moonwalkers_walk1.jpg?itok=VU32OiQ2)
Could be a useful mobility aid for older people (including me ! )
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More likely a profit center for the local geriatric medical providers... :o 8)
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I saw those skates on the TV news the other day. The inventor spent something like five years developing them. They are loaded with a lot of electronics to make them work. As I recall the cost of the skates are around two hundred dollars. They are said to cut walking effort in half.
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How about healing/recovery time? ::)
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How about healing/recovery time? ::)
I assume that is covered by product liability insurance. ;)
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I assume that is covered by product liability insurance. ;)
my guess is there's a disclaimer in the fine print.
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Here is a review of the Zero DSR/X by the British publication MCN after the bike had been ridden by their office manager for the past year. One of their big complaints about riding an electric motorcycle in Brittan is the lousy charging infrastructure in the country: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpvlzs-mAnA
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEXieo06ta8
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Here is interesting news regarding VW's "dieselgate" requirement to install 1000 DC fast chargers throughout California. Apparently they are not working very well. I guess you get what you pay for. ::)
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Here is the latest news regarding the new Kawasaki Ninja 7 hybrids. Oddly, both the Ninja 7 and Z7 models will be the same price in the U.S., even though the Ninja has more plastic on it. Both models are priced at $12,500, so it seems to me as if Kawasaki isn't planning on selling very many of them here: https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/new-model-preview/kawasaki-ninja-7-hybrid-and-z7-hybrid-are-coming-to-america-for-2024-44598106
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4 hours at a 30 MPH cruise/120 miles isn't bad for an e-bike.
2024 E-RT3 Electric Scooter
https://cscmotorcycles.com/2024-e-rt3-electric-scooter/
Sale Price $6,995.00
If you are looking for a powerful, stylish, and eco-friendly electric scooter that can handle any urban challenge, look no further than the E-RT3 electric scooter from CSC Motorcycles. With the E-RT3 electric scooter, you can cruise through traffic while having a smooth and enjoyable ride. The E-RT3 is a high-performance electric scooter that features an 8000W (10.7 hp) central motor, a 72V96Ah ternary polymer lithium battery (automobile-level), and Bosch dual-channel ABS brakes. It can go up to 75 mph and travel up to 124 miles @ 32 mph with rider up to 330 lbs, so you can get to work, have some fun at the park, or explore new places.
The E-RT3 has many modern and user-friendly features that make it easy and fun to use. It has a TFT instrument display, tire pressure monitoring, LED lighting, large light-cured windshield, keyless start, electronic release seat cushion, USB interface, backlit switches, aluminum alloy rear rack, and raised passenger seat. You can monitor your speed, battery level, driving mode, and other information on the colorful display. You can also enjoy your favorite music, charge your devices, and more with the E-RT3’s advanced features. The E-RT3 has an ingenious button layout that makes it easy to navigate and change settings. You can use the buttons on the handlebar to control the scooter’s functions, such as turning on the lights, adjusting the volume, switching modes, and more. The E-RT3 also has a reverse gear button that allows you to back up easily, a cruise control button that lets you maintain a constant speed without holding the throttle, and a double flash button that activates the hazard lights for safety.
You will also love the stylish and comfortable design of the E-RT3. It has a classic scooter look with a step-thru frame, leg shield with an aluminum alloy frame, aluminum wheels, tubeless tires (front 4.7/2.8-15; rear 5.5/2.4-14), front and rear disc brakes with CBS, upright front shock and double rear shock, belt drive, integral double seat cushion. The E-RT3 also comes in various colors to suit your preference.
The E-RT3 is not only powerful and innovative, but also eco-friendly and economical. It supports fast charging and is equipped with a 3.3KW high-power charger that can charge the bike from 30% to 80% in only 70 minutes, increasing the mileage to around 62 miles (or 100 km). Riding a scooter has many benefits over using a car or even a motorcycle. You can save money on gas, parking fees, and maintenance. You can also reduce your carbon footprint and help the environment. Plus, you can zip through traffic jams and enjoy the world around you.
With an MSRP price of US $7,295 (not including another $410 in dealer fees), the CSC E-RT3 is favorably priced compared to the competition. Order yours today and experience the thrill of the E-RT3 electric scooter from CSC Motorcycles.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5DbRyeZNRk
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As an aside, I noticed this regarding batteries:
"Umicore uses a monitoring process to exclude unethical practices. Such traceability is becoming increasingly important, not least in the EU where “battery passports” will be required for EVs from February 2027. These will detail the source and nature of the materials used in their production."
Evidently, there is ethical labor problem in the Congo where cobalt is mined.
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San Francisco just has adopted new lithium battery charging rules. However, they are limited to charging in apartments and batteries for small devices and personal mobility vehicles. Here is a link to the news story. Of course, how they would be enforced is not discussed. I assume that if there ever is a fire caused by someone charging a lithium battery in an apartment, the lawyers and insurance companies will get involved and enforce the rules in civil court after the fact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dbXhyNWZC0
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Battery vs. liquid hydrocarbon energy storage has different hazards. Generally liquid hydrocarbons have a slower energy release rate when they get loose. Energy release is volume & temperature dependent. It's tough to ignite gasoline all at once & liberate its total stored energy unless you aerosolize it first.
A 5-10 pound lithium battery is roughly proportional to 1/2 cup to 1 cup of gas. The batteries chemical process has controlled release only when it's undamaged and feeding a regulated load. When it breaks down internally, the chemical energy release process has little restriction. The rapid energy liberation destroys the integrity of adjacent cells and the process cascades. The video demonstrates this.
The newer LiPo cells are much tougher, but like all batteries they depend on the internal structural integrity to remain stable.
If people had to store gasoline in fuel storage chambers that occasionally caused the fuel to vaporize & detonate, cars would be designed very differently.
Stored energy is a wonderful thing. The best idea is to keep it stored until needed. An imaginary future 20-50 pound battery (batacitor?) that could store the equivalent energy of 6 pounds of gasoline (roughly 7 sticks of dynamite if aerosolized & ignited) but liberate it near instantly if damaged would be a fearsome thing indeed.
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Battery vs. liquid hydrocarbon energy storage has different hazards. Generally liquid hydrocarbons have a slower energy release rate when they get loose. Energy release is volume & temperature dependent. It's tough to ignite gasoline all at once & liberate its total stored energy unless you aerosolize it first.
A 5-10 pound lithium battery is roughly proportional to 1/2 cup to 1 cup of gas. The batteries chemical process has controlled release only when it's undamaged and feeding a regulated load. When it breaks down internally, the chemical energy release process has little restriction. The rapid energy liberation destroys the integrity of adjacent cells and the process cascades. The video demonstrates this.
The newer LiPo cells are much tougher, but like all batteries they depend on the internal structural integrity to remain stable.
If people had to store gasoline in fuel storage chambers that occasionally caused the fuel to vaporize & detonate, cars would be designed very differently.
Stored energy is a wonderful thing. The best idea is to keep it stored until needed. An imaginary future 20-50 pound battery (batacitor?) that could store the equivalent energy of 6 pounds of gasoline (roughly 7 sticks of dynamite if aerosolized & ignited) but liberate it near instantly if damaged would be a fearsome thing indeed.
Your comments as they regard battery "runaway" fires was more true a couple of years ago.
It is still true for the cheapest batteries that no one should really be using. The current crop of batteries have BMS boards (battery management system).
Think of them as a internal smart fuse which stop a runaway along with many other features.
Generally speaking ~ you can spot a battery with a BMS because it will have small built in charge status display.
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BMS is good at preventing charging fires. The membrane integrity between cells is outside the BMS area of control. I agree that the current crop of Lithium batteries is better.
https://www.accure.net/battery-knowledge/battery-management-systems-role-in-battery-safety
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,,, and then we have aerostatic buoyancy mile long solar powered orbital launch vehicles ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO3ENmbQQ9o
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1,800 meter long "wing" x 3'/m = 5,400'
estimate chord at 400': 5400 x 400 = 2,160,000 sq.ft one "wing"; 2 x 2160000 = 4,320,000 sq ft solar surface
4320000/27 = 160,000 sq yds; sunlight provides 1000w/sq yd (1 KW) (0.001 MW)
160 MW raw energy on 20% efficiency panels = 32 MW. video says 90 MW...?
Gluing the flex PV to the gas bag creates a big heat load on a plastic bag.
That's a LOT of gasbag material. I assume H2 is the working gas. Vectored thrust would be the only way to keep it intact in flight and it's unlikely it would tolerate wind. Thrust would be limited to sunside orbital time. Or just turn on the anti-gravity and Bussard Ramjets and get to it... ::)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZjsDRx7YS4
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400 KM is about 240 miles. 1 ton/9 is about 220 pounds passenger + baggage. Maybe 7 "real amukkikins"... ;D I'm assuming a +6000 pound airframe with all that battery mass? Altitude density could be a real factor in flight loading, night flights might be the norm. Thick, cool dense air is better that hot dry air. Phoenix Sky Harbor has been known to cancel summer afternoon takeoffs.
The high voltage batteries have a liquid cooling system. The stated recharge time was maybe 30 minutes. The whole fuselage was a lifting body, so clever design. All in all a good alternative for short hops.
There are "PV Roadway" existing methodologies already. Airports have a LOT of pavement. An 8000' x 200' runway at even 10% efficiency panel performance yields 6-8 MW. Your average "hub" airport fully developed could put out potentially 80-120 MWHrs daily. Airports are not cheap anyway, so having specialty paving that can self-clear snow seems a good thing.
https://solarroadways.com/
https://www.wattwaybycolas.com/media/documents/documents-en-anglais/dp-wattway-pack-gb.pdf
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My local radio news station this morning reported that the Marin County (one of the wealthiest areas in California) police are complaining that parents are buying their children and teenagers "electric motorcycles" instead of bicycles. The children then go zipping around at 30 to 40 mph terrorizing neighborhoods. Needless to say, they don't have a license to ride them because they are not old enough. The cops are begging the county's parents to not buy these vehicles for their kids as they are dangerous and the kids don't have the skills or knowledge to ride them in traffic. (I guess they are making this request because enforcement to control this activity is too difficult for the cops and they don't want to try chasing the kids around neighborhood streets, bike paths and off-road trails.)
My neighbor bought one of these Class 3+ electric bicycles for his pre-teen boy. That thing really zips along and will pull up the hill in front of my home at 35 mph while carrying a passenger. (My Aniioki ebike chugs up the hill at only 8 mph, but it is much heavier.)
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One child rearing strategy involves buying pricey stuff for your child so they will quit bothering you. Putting an 8 year old on a powered vehicle in traffic is poor parenting. I've seen many weekend warriors buy 50-60cc MX and small quads for their small children who promptly began riding them around the heavily trafficked pit areas on race day. Children have poor reasoning skills involving motorized vehicles but on the upside they heal fast.
In my travels the upscale area speed limits are generally higher street-for-street than for where the proles live. Perhaps the parents are secretly hoping for a big settlement when that Ferrari driven by an "I'm late for the meeting" coke-infused lawyer tags WFO Brittany or Benjamin blowing through an intersection. I'm sure the resulting large cash infusion will assuage their grief. "Sorry son, but you have to take a hit for the team..."
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You make some good points.
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Electric bicycles are restricted to a maximum 15 mph speed here. (That isn't electric motorcycles obviously )
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Electric bicycles are restricted to a maximum 15 mph speed here. (That isn't electric motorcycles obviously )
Every state is different. In California electric bicycles are class 1, 2 and 3, with 3 being the fastest version, allowing you to go up to 26 mph (as I recall), however there are plenty of electric bicycles that you can buy that will go much faster.
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Every state is different. In California electric bicycles are class 1, 2 and 3, with 3 being the fastest version, allowing you to go up to 26 mph (as I recall), however there are plenty of electric bicycles that you can buy that will go much faster.
It's 28 mph for Class 3, 20mph for Class 1 & 2, with differences in HOW the power is made available.
The US federal Consumer products definition that was set up over 20 years ago has done a lot towards standardizing requirements nationally.
https://raevbikes.com/pages/e-bike-laws#:~:text=Under%20the%20US%20Consumer%20Product,only%20by%20the%20electric%20motor.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2003/02/12/03-3423/requirements-for-low-speed-electric-bicycles
I think this was a huge factor in helping the industry move forward, since they could standardize on components that could be sold in multiple markets.
One thing that I personally find interesting, is that, there is currently a bit of what I'd consider a loophole, in that manufacturers can use the CONTROLLER to limit power and speed. Many are fitting MUCH more powerful motors than the 750 watt max. that is allowed by the legalese. Like this motorcycle styled bike that has a 2.0kW motor attached: https://www.coswheelebike.com/products/ct20s-ebike
I've read several accounts and seen videos wherein the factory programmed limits can be removed by finding a firmware hack and loading this into the controller. Presto!, and the bike is now capable of 40+ mph. Anticipating the eventual closure of this "loophole" after somebody's kid does an unsuccessful Evel Knievel into cross traffic, has me thinking I should buy a machine NOW. But the performance / price ratio keeps getting better, every time I look, so I continue to hold off.
I get the impression that our Euro brothers aren't getting access to anything like the same experience. Their market seems to be filled with much lighter machines with much more modestly sized motors, designed for street commuting, not off-road hooliganism, and built to meet their 25 kph limit.
If you want to go faster, grab a license plate and hop on your new "Speed Bike"! https://www.autoevolution.com/news/friday-27-is-the-fastest-legal-e-bike-in-europe-you-need-a-license-to-ride-one-218100.html#:~:text=Or%20you%20can%20make%20the,25%20kph%20or%2015.5%20mph.
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This guy races his Sur Ron electric bicycle against 600cc ICE motorcycles. Needless to say he has made a few modifications to get to go faster than the factory settings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfOi303vKZE&t=38s