Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: saint45 on April 06, 2012, 10:34:55 pm
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Awesome...What a day!
G5 is sputtering...almost like i was running out of fuel. Stopped and put some in...runs better but still sputtering. Other bike not running either, but thats a different story.
Any help would be great.
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You might check the condition of the spark plug.
A new NGK BPR6ES spark plug might make all the difference.
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Water in the gas? I've had it before. It was most noticeable in the morning when pulling away. It would run great for 1/4 mile, then sputter for a bit, then be mostly ok. I suspec it was running on what was in the line, then sucking through the water that had pooled in the bottom of the tank overnight.
Just get some gas out of the tank and into a glass jar. Let it sit for a while and see if any water droplets form in the bottom.
Scott
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New spark plug and new gas with a touch of Seafoam might just do the trick.
GSS
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Yup i too have had good luck with Sea Foam for similar symptoms in bikes and autos. bittercrick
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saint45:
Another thing to consider if you have not already done it is to disconnect the side stand safety switch.
If the switch is slightly defective or if the side stand is moving up and down as you ride it can cause the computer to decide the side stand is down.
This will temporary kill all electrical power to the ignition.
The wiring connector for this side stand switch is located on the frame on the left side right behind the engine.
Unplugging the connector will disable the switch.
Warning: With this switch disconnected, the motorcycle will start and run normally even though the side stand is left down.
If the side stand is left down and you ride off of a fast drop off (like a curb) the stand will hit the ground and high side you off the right side of the bike.
Also, in my opinion, it is not a good idea to run the engine with the bike resting on the side stand.
Most of the oil will be over in the left side case so there is a possibility of the oil pickup tube sucking air into the lube pump.
Figuring this switch was just another safety device that could fail at a moments notice and I could live without that sort of problem I disconnected mine several months ago.
So far I have made it a point to always raise the side stand before I turn on the key to start the bike so my bike hasn't been down yet.
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Arizoni-
Now that you mention it...That was acting strange the other day...Ill check it as soon as I can. Wanted to disconnect that thing anyway. Im used to older bikes that dont have these "dummy features". Thanks to everyone that responded....love this forum. :P
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Do any of you use premium gas? I have been told by a mechanic friend if mine that I should so the last tank fill up I did. He says that it can't hurt and swears that it will help. Opinions?
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Yer bullet was built in India, which means that it dont like that fancy stuff. ;) Not being an engineer or mechanic, i cant give you the technical jargon but i know that others have said not to use premium. I myself travel a little out of my way to get "real" gas but dont use anything higher than 89 octaine.
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Just because it was made in India doesn't mean that high octane will be BAD for it. After all, your typical Indian rider loves to low rev these things which we would never do here. I spent over a year there and was amazed at how they love to hear that sound when pulling low with torque, even with two people on it.
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Why would running high octane be bad? Truth be told, if there's no pre-ignition you will make more power on lower octane fuel but I can't see where high octane would do any harm.
Scott
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I have mostly used regular gas but recently started using High Octane to experiment and it seems that engine is happier either due to some reduction in pre-ignition or it may be just in my head :D.
I have stopped buying generic gas from Quick Fill type gas stations after I had bad experience with my car some years back. Mind you there are lots of riders who use them all the time. I prefer major brand names such as Shell or Exxon - I want to try Chevron but don't see their gas stations around.
But bike will run on anything as long as the gas does not have moisture or gas is not too old.
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Some food for thought regarding high octane gas, don't know for sure the validity of the argument but the gas stations don't sell as much premium so it could be sitting in the tanks longer and be more prone to picking up moisture.
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They may sell less but most sell plenty to cycle the tank. So long as it's a busy station this doesn't matter. Especially since so many people think premium is somehow better even when they don't need it.
Scott
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Not sure why ...
but the Sydney RE dealer swears the UCE bikes will foul plugs less on higher octane
... just saying.
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Make sure you don't fill up when there is a replenishing tanker there. They will stir up any crap that may be in the tank. By the way regarding high octane, my mechanic friend doesn't even understand why we wouldn't use high test since we are already getting 75 mpg and so the extra .80 cents it would cost to fill a tank is good insurance. His bottom line argument is always, "it can't hurt after all". I will be interested if my mpg's improve. I have been getting a consistent 78 mpg on regular gas.
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I will be interested if my mpg's improve. I have been getting a consistent 78 mpg on regular gas.
High octane does not improve miles per gallon.
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I agree for the most part now a days.
Only in cars with fully computer managed engines have I seen in increase in fuel economy with premium in the tank.
Example my moms car with the north star V-8. The ECU controls both the ignition and EFI. It continuously adjusts mixture, advances timing and adjust timing curve to optimal settings based on the feed back from at least a shoe box full of sensors. Each cylinder has it its own knock sensor I do believe and there are at least two O2 sensors on board.
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Had it out today, with the high octane gas, and it just seemed to have a wee bit more pep and pop. I know, this is most likely all in my mind, and it probably is, buy I'll take a subliminal placebo effect improvement cause it make me feel better, kind of like a sugar pill.
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I find most of my bikes have run a bit smoother on premium but there was no noticeable power increase.
Scott
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It's a good thing the Royal Enfield's don't have a knock sensor.
All of the normal "ticks" and "tacks" and "clicks" and "clacks" would drive it out of its mind. ;D
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It's a good thing the Royal Enfield's don't have a knock sensor.
All of the normal "ticks" and "tacks" and "clicks" and "clacks" would drive it out of its mind. ;D
Actually Enfields have always kind of remind me of the old Pratt and Whitneys and Wright Cyclones in aviation ...
http://youtu.be/EkcX0KGIBwk
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I really get a kick out of watching that radial firing up.
It almost sounds like it has a Royal Enfield sprag clutch in it. :D ;)
Then, there's this DC 3.
The right engine had just been rebuilt so you guys with the rebuilt RE's who are having problems getting it to light off, pay attention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QyHw408CtU&feature=endscreen&NR=1
And for seeing some Really BIG radials start, this B-29 is interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAf6GScjiHo&feature=related
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I use premium in all my parade bikes and my street bike. With our 100+ degree summer temps, they just seem to run better. Considering the great fuel economy of these RE's what's an additional dollar per tank?
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Premium will usually burn cooler.
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I find most of my bikes have run a bit smoother on premium but there was no noticeable power increase.
Scott
This is my experience as well. They also start easier and idle steadier.
The chemicals used as oxygenates, fillers and extenders lower the octane so there is less of them used in mid grade and premium.
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Remember that mid grade doesn't exist until mixed at the pump. Also premium fuel has lower volatility, which isn't much of an issue except during the fall and spring changeover from summer/winter blending which causes havoc on the new direct injection vehicles. :( :( :(.
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Ive always run premium in every bike ive had. BTW...unplugged the side stand "dummy" feature and bike is running like normal...still a bit more backfire than expected since i put the EFI pipe on. Should i have to change the FI mapping? or spark plug? anything?
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saint45:
Another thing to consider if you have not already done it is to disconnect the side stand safety switch.
If the switch is slightly defective or if the side stand is moving up and down as you ride it can cause the computer to decide the side stand is down.
This will temporary kill all electrical power to the ignition.
The wiring connector for this side stand switch is located on the frame on the left side right behind the engine.
Unplugging the connector will disable the switch.
Warning: With this switch disconnected, the motorcycle will start and run normally even though the side stand is left down.
If the side stand is left down and you ride off of a fast drop off (like a curb) the stand will hit the ground and high side you off the right side of the bike.
Also, in my opinion, it is not a good idea to run the engine with the bike resting on the side stand.
Most of the oil will be over in the left side case so there is a possibility of the oil pickup tube sucking air into the lube pump.
Figuring this switch was just another safety device that could fail at a moments notice and I could live without that sort of problem I disconnected mine several months ago.
So far I have made it a point to always raise the side stand before I turn on the key to start the bike so my bike hasn't been down yet.
My G5 quit of the San Mateo Bridge on the way to Monroe Motors last year to have the speedo drive replaced. Kicked down the side stand kicked it up again and it restarted fine. Had Monroe guys disconnect it. The said they would see if it could be replaced under warranty , but have not had any further news from them on the subject. It has never given trouble since. So have left well alone.
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I run my C5 on 94 octane, or at least try to. 0% ethanol for my local pumps on premium and up.
The fuel that is left in the fuel pump hose at the station from the selector to the hose end you stick in the tank has what ever the previous customer pumped. The longer the hose is, the less of what you actually selected to pump you get. Its a crap shoot as to what is in the hose.
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So with the small tank of the enfield you may find me lurking at gas stations and then running up to the pump that the new BMW's and such pull away from!
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Trimleyman-
Yes, I figure ill leave it alone as well.....i new it was a matter of time before that thing failed anyways.
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It's a good thing the Royal Enfield's don't have a knock sensor.
All of the normal "ticks" and "tacks" and "clicks" and "clacks" would drive it out of its mind. ;D
Thanks for the help!
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..still a bit more backfire than expected since i put the EFI pipe on. Should i have to change the FI mapping? or spark plug? anything?
The stock EFI cannot quite adjust enough for the lower back-pressure of an EFI or up-swept, hence the backfire.
The cost and hassle of replacing the non-adjustable stock EFI with a mappable one just to get rid of the occasional backfire is probably not worth it.
I have wondered whether something like a Harley torque cone in the end of the pipe might add enough back-pressure to get rid of the backfire on these mufflers but I have never seen anyone try it.
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I'm planning on adding a spark arrester to my efi muffler soon. I'm curious if that will change anything and I'll report if it does. I kind of like the poop-poop- pow on deceleration. It makes me feel like Mr. Toad from wind in the willows!
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So with the small tank of the enfield you may find me lurking at gas stations and then running up to the pump that the new BMW's and such pull away from!
What size is your tank? I put 11 litres of petrol in mine yesterday and it had only just gone on reserve.
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I have the efi and I love the occasional pop when it backfires occasionally. It's a rare occurance though, maybe twice a ride, so it doesn't become annoying. If it happened a lot then I'm sure I wouldn't like it.
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I agree for the most part now a days.
Only in cars with fully computer managed engines have I seen in increase in fuel economy with premium in the tank.
Example my moms car with the north star V-8. The ECU controls both the ignition and EFI. It continuously adjusts mixture, advances timing and adjust timing curve to optimal settings based on the feed back from at least a shoe box full of sensors. Each cylinder has it its own knock sensor I do believe and there are at least two O2 sensors on board.
So I should probably start putting high octane in my 99 Deville eh?
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What size is your tank? I put 11 litres of petrol in mine yesterday and it had only just gone on reserve.
I've never run it dry but I've never been able to put more than 2 gallons in it. It's the california version with the restricted neck and vent tube mind you.
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Well the G5 left me stranded tonight, so its not sorted at all. Ill be trucking it in to the dealer once again, first time was early on, ....1500 miles, I expect more. These should come with 3year warranties! Getting old, these electronics are crap! >:(
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Saint45
Have you gone thru your bikes wiring and added the protection to it?
Here's a link to a post I made about doing this:
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,11088.0.html
Maybe I've just been lucky but so far (knock on wood) I haven't had any bad electrical problems.
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My G5 also started sputtering a bit the other day. Back home in the garage it went completely dead - no engine light, nothing. Then I found that when I turned the handlebars all the way to the right, the ignition came on! Took off the headlight and found one of the plastic clip-on connectors had come unclipped, so was only making contact intermittently. Clicked it back together and all is well.
Well worth checking in there - it's like an explosion in a spaghetti factory. I've never seen wiring like it. Ever. Except behind my computer!
Arizoni's right - it's WELL worth checking all the wiring and connectors, and protecting from chafing against metal edges.
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With the bike running wiggle the sidestand. Could be the switch
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Will,
I had the exact same problem and no matter how I tried to position the wires it kept popping apart. I eventually put a zip tie around the connector to hold it together and haven't had a problem since.
Scott
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I've since tied mine too - it separated again. There are quite a few of those connectors around the bike worth checking. I guess the clips lose their springiness.
Bit like me..... :-\ ;)
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Thanks again ALL!!!! im taking it in to dealer im very very bad with electrical. I appreciate the help..always. thought for sure it was kickstand. Not so easy. Ill be up and runnin soon im suure! cheer
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I want to disengage the side stand kill switch thingy. Is it as simple as disconnecting something? I know that others have mentioned doing this but my concern is that I'll do something wrong and kill my bike all together. As admitted many times before, I am a mechanical nincompoop. Also, about tire pressure for the oem Avons, what is the proper pressure back and front again? I know there are many opinions out there, depending what country you live in apparently, but for safeties sake, what is the proper pressure?
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I want to disengage the side stand kill switch thingy. Is it as simple as disconnecting something? I know that others have mentioned doing this but my concern is that I'll do something wrong and kill my bike all together. As admitted many times before, I am a mechanical nincompoop. Also, about tire pressure for the oem Avons, what is the proper pressure back and front again? I know there are many opinions out there, depending what country you live in apparently, but for safeties sake, what is the proper pressure?
Just follow the wire from the sidestand switch up and you'll find a connector, disconnect it and tie it off.
The Avon Speedmaster/Safetymileage combo ? 18 psi front and 28/30 psi in the rear.
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I've since tied mine too - it separated again. There are quite a few of those connectors around the bike worth checking. I guess the clips lose their springiness.
Bit like me..... :-\ ;)
My clip was fine but the harness kept moving to a position where a left turn would press on it and open it up.
Scott
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Saw one one that was fouling plugs in 400 yards. In the old days we would have gone right to the carb but not with EFI. It ran perfectly. I had Vikram from the factory with me. He wiggled the sidestand with the bike running and it started to spit and sputter. Turns out when it was being ridden the switch would shut off the bike off and on so quickly that the rider did not notice. Vikram told me that when the switch cuts off the engine it cuts off the electrical part but not the fuel pump. Fixed the switch, end of problem.
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My bike does not start in neutral, but fires as soon as I pull the clutch in, what do I need to check ???
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Nothing, that's how it works. Clutch interlock safety feature.
I disabled the side stand interlock, that will only keep me from crashing, getting hurt, and wrecking the bike. But I kept the clutch interlock that keeps me from looking like a total dork by starting it in gear and having it lurch forward and fall over at 1mph. The likelihood of this happening is directly proportional to how many cute girls are at the cafe you're parked in front of.
Scott
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I recently had the opposite - it would only start in neutral with clutch out. Wouldn't go at all with clutch in - neutral or in gear. It should start in neutral with clutch in or out, or in gear with clutch in.
New clutch switch fixed it. Simple job, 5 mins.
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My bike does not start in neutral, but fires as soon as I pull the clutch in, what do I need to check ???
Check that the neutral light is ON.
Even if bike is in neutral and wheels rotate freely, it would not start if the electric circuit for neutral light is not complete. Wiggle the gear lever slightly until neutral light comes ON, then try to start.
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Nothing, that's how it works. Clutch interlock safety feature.
I disabled the side stand interlock, that will only keep me from crashing, getting hurt, and wrecking the bike. But I kept the clutch interlock that keeps me from looking like a total dork by starting it in gear and having it lurch forward and fall over at 1mph. The likelihood of this happening is directly proportional to how many cute girls are at the cafe you're parked in front of.
Scott
Don't forget how cool those of us with kick starts look when we kick it in gear. Two choices, pull the clutch in and kick with no resistance is a great way to put your knee out. Dont pull the clutch in and kick and go forward unexpectedly.
Tre cool for teh chix 2C ;)
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Getting back to the original subject (what was that anyway?) my trusty mechanic Pedro says to check the relay right behind the battery. This is G5 only since it's inside the triangle box on a C5. It controls the fuel pump for sure and maybe some other parts of the ignition. It's mounted with connections up so tends to get water and gook in it and corrode, giving dodgey reliability. Give it a look.
Scott
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sorry to rob the thread ;D
but the bike (C5) is plagued with both issues.
1) not starting in neutral with the N light on, until the clutch is pulled in.
2) it sputters /hesitates sometimes, but only on low speeds in traffic.
There must be some issues, as she was not like this earlier (just like my wife)
Heavenly on high speeds though !! :D
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Bradey, have you tried the NGK plug? it may cure #2.
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nope I am on a bosch ! which plug in NGK do you suggest Scotty ? BPR6ES or BPR7ES (INDIA is entering summers, temperature 35 to 45 degree centigrade).
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By reading this particular thread, and many others I might add, one would come away with the impression that these bikes are a bunch of junk. I just hit 3,000 miles yesterday and the only thing wrong so far is the screw holding the chain guard on fell off and I replaced it the same day with a 6mm socket head screw. I haven't even washed it yet and it's nearly a year old. It's a military so doesn't need to be washed, at least in my opinion. Just kidding! I plan on washing it in a couple of months, once the brown dirt covers a majority of the od green.
Knock on wood, I'm tapping my head right now, I love this bike for its shear simplicity. If I had to I could probably fix almost any thing on my bike short of an electrical problem. There aren't many new bikes out there that you can say that about. I can actually see the engine, imagine that!
On a side note, Progressive has road side assistance at no extra charge so if what all I hear on this site comes true, they are a phone call away. Just saying.
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1) not starting in neutral with the N light on, until the clutch is pulled in.
It is either clutch switch that is playing tricks or your bike's Neutral Switch - which is located behind the starter motor, on the roof of crankcase. Or the wire has disconnected or broken from either switch, as in the picture below.
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bman, remember, more people post about their problems than wonderful trouble free days. The beauty of an internet forum is a large group of people, some of whom have probably already seen what you're seeing. Who better to ask?
Scott
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By reading this particular thread, and many others I might add, one would come away with the impression that these bikes are a bunch of junk. I just hit 3,000 miles yesterday and the only thing wrong so far is the screw holding the chain guard on fell off and I replaced it the same day with a 6mm socket head screw.
3,000 miles is nothing - I would have sworn by its reliability at that point too. Honestly, I had complete confidence in it. Just ask me what's packed up, split apart or fallen off since. You live and learn; the vibration issues are largely dealt with by not going over 60mph. But the sidestand switch, clutch switch, solenoid and sprag clutch failures are not so philosophically excused. To address the post by Bradey while I am here, going by my experience I would say almost certainly your clutch switch has had it.
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I know you are not alone with your behaving RE.
I think the vast majority of the people who are members of this forum don't have any problems but lets face it, anything mechanical or electrical can have a problem.
Even the Toyota owners who own perhaps one of the most reliable cars made, are asking about problems they have or think they have.
The nice thing about the web is it allows people to ask others who have had more experience to help them if and when a problem does come up.
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Hey guys, don't take offence. I was thinking more about those potential owners out there who are looking at our forum to see if it is worth their hard earned money to purchase one of our machines. I'm just saying that they ARE worth it. I love my C5 and, yes, things will go wrong with it, like any other machine with moving parts. It is great to hear about what to look out for and I have gotten a lot of great advice regarding any question or concerns I may have. In fact, your guys can be not only helpful but also funny as hell as well! Keep it up because I'm never bored on these forums.
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Oh, no offence taken and certainly none meant towards you either. :) Reading your post just reminded me how much I loved my bike when it had 3,000 miles on it and then of all the things that had happened since. Do I still love it? Probably, (I say it so begrudgingly! ;D), but I certainly don't have the same regard for its build quality now. I'm not here to put off prospective purchasers who may browse this forum but I can only tell the truth as per my ownership experience too. I've read here several times from people who have contact with the factory that they take quality control very seriously. I have to say I personally am not quite ready to believe that Indian production standards are going to match Japanese or European standards anytime soon but that opinion will be tainted from my personal experience too. I acknowledge they have uprated the sprag clutch and I'm sure I've read here that there's a new wiring loom on current models too. There certainly needs to be. No offence meant at not mentioning US production standards above - I simply have no experience to draw on.