Unofficial Royal Enfield Community Forum
Royal Enfield Motorcycles => Bullet with the UCE engine => Topic started by: gashousegorilla on March 30, 2013, 09:49:26 am
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Here you go, some pictures of the finished Bike. In a nut shell, we set out .... A WAYS back, to take a great handling, great looking C-5 with a great motor. And turn it into a Great looking great Handling C-5 Cafe Racer.... and add some GO FAST to that great motor. And depending on your taste..... I think we did alright.
From concept, design, fabrication, etc....etc. All done in house....That would be my house and Scooterbobs...... By hand and by us. We put a lot of thought and detail in it, and I have a bunch of build pictures of it. So if you are interested... ask. I may have a shot of it. Thanks, and I hope you like it ! I sure do......
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Very nice work! Such a good looking bike that is. Very tempting. Awesome work by ScooterBob and yourself! I hope you have lots of fun with it. Ride safe! ;D
Also, just for future reference, you can attach up to 4 pictures in one post. When you "Browse" for a picture, there is a "(more attachments)" option underneath the textbox. :D
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Congrats on a fine looking job!
Best regards to you, and to our friend Scooter Bob too!
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Beautiful! Nicely done. Wouldn't have expected anything less from a ScooterBob & GHG collaboration!
GSS
Someone posted a spy shot last month at the TU250 site! I was wondering who had built this Bullet! http://tu250riders.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1032&start=150
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Well - I'm glad you put a coat of wax on it before you posted the pix ..... ;)
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Sharp.
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Well - I'm glad you put a coat of wax on it before you posted the pix ..... ;)
WAX !? I'm not running to the store for that ! That would be Castrol on a shop rag Cuz....... what ? he...he..he
Beautiful! Nicely done. Wouldn't have expected anything less from a ScooterBob & GHG collaboration!
GSS
Congrats on a fine looking job!
Best regards to you, and to our friend Scooter Bob too!
Very nice work! Such a good looking bike that is. Very tempting. Awesome work by ScooterBob and yourself! I hope you have lots of fun with it. Ride safe! ;D
Also, just for future reference, you can attach up to 4 pictures in one post. When you "Browse" for a picture, there is a "(more attachments)" option underneath the textbox. :D
Thank you Boys ! It's very much appreciated.
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Great looking piece of work. Looks clean and mean!!
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Very cool! That is a great looking bike. Excellent work guys!
Scottie
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Not seen a enfield like this before. Very unique and just jaw dropping....I find myself looking at the pics whenever someone posts a new comment and it pops back on the board..Thanks. GM
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Love the little Isle of Man tribute on the panels in the triangle panels.
Scott
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WAX !? I'm not running to the store for that ! That would be Castrol on a shop rag Cuz....... what ? he...he..he
HA! - I shoulda KNOWN!! ::)
Thank you Boys ! It's very much appreciated.
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Very nice, guys. It's a beauty!
Bare
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Gorgeous! Love the petcock idea!
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I am guessing the 535 in the license plate is the scooterbob trademark "no replacement for displacement." Right ?
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Love the suspension on the seat pan.
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Once again Guys, thank you..... Feeling a bit humbled.
And I'll tell you what bareneked, I have been admiring your bike for a while now! Love it !
DanB...... Thanks, a Gasman has to have some gas fittings on a bike ! ;)
And about the details in the graphics and on the bike and all...... GOOD EYE's! The graphics were pulled together by my very talented. graphic designer niece Erin. She pulled together the idea's that scooterbob and I through at her quite nicely. There are filled with subtle and not so subtle images, hints and clues if you will.
For instance, Ducati Scotty mentioned the " air scoop" graphics. You'll see the Isle of man symbol.....and if you can zoom in enough, you may be able to make out scooterbobs and my initials in the gun stocks. Hammer for me and micrometer for scooterbob..... only fitting I think. The silver paint on the frame is a nod to Mike Hailwood..... don't think he ever raced on an Enfield ? But he is just cool !! Also in it's way, in the body work, there is a nod to both Hailwood and Tommy Robb. There is a lot more here and there........
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Love the suspension on the seat pan.
Thanks ! Something different I just wanted to try on a Cafe seat. These bikes spend all there time on the road and NOT the track. Pot holes and such..... those seats are hard man ! They are Harley seat spings and I limited the seat travel to about an inch..... just for a little cush.
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It looks like that seat pan is designed for hinges. What bike was it originally designed for? It looks great on the C5.
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It looks like that seat pan is designed for hinges. What bike was it originally designed for? It looks great on the C5.
WOW ! Your good ! Just like the stock C-5, there is a lot of ..... "International" to the parts
that were added.
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Looks killer. Great paint job - I really like the knee cut outs a lot. The graphics are great and really well done - Nice color choices. Real classy, front to back. That tail light is great... gives it character and makes it look like a rocket thrust. Speaking of... how is the performance?
You guys should be, as I'm sure you are, pretty damn proud of this one. Probably one of the nicest Enfield's on the planet.
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Cool bike with all the class of yesteryear and the technology of today. :)
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Looks killer. Great paint job - I really like the knee cut outs a lot. The graphics are great and really well done - Nice color choices. Real classy, front to back. That tail light is great... gives it character and makes it look like a rocket thrust. Speaking of... how is the performance?
You guys should be, as I'm sure you are, pretty damn proud of this one. Probably one of the nicest Enfield's on the planet.
Well .... I don't know about the Planet Boggy ! There are a lot of cool Bikes out there man. But I'll give you at least the Nicest in my town. Thanks man, and yes, very proud.
The Tank indents were hammered in and smoothed out. And that tail light was a pretty cool and wild Idea by ScooterBob. It's a '59 Caddy "bullet" tail light. Mounted into a housing, made out of a 3" truck exhaust pipe . With a hole cut out of the back of the seat cowl. Housing welded in, and the hole beaded in 3/16" round stock and smoothed.
The performance is pretty darn good. And the motor work has been done in stages. It's NOT a 535 yet ! And I'm not painting that fender twice ! He..he...he Starting last season after the bike was fully put back together. Scooterbob did a "little" Head work and we ran and tuned that for the summer and fall with good results. Over this winter, he ground the Cams. And we have been busy working on those. I made adjustable push rods and converted the Hydraulic liters to solids. General dialing in and testing and such for the past month or so. And finishing it up with some Dyno time and tune yesterday with the PC-V. The results were 29 and change HP and 31 and change Ft. lbs at the rear wheel. Not too bad ! Peaks around 4800 rpm's Just before it goes into a soft cut on the limiter at around 5200 rpm's. So, at this time there is no need to use the rev extend feature on the PC-V . it's would just free wheel the bike , with no gains. And the Motor has some pretty dam! good cooling features! We were probably in that booth for two hours and i don't think the motor got over 195 degree's. BIG thanks to Shawn the tuner over at JDS Cycle..... the guy is amazing to watch! Man..... everybody needs one of those machines in there garage ! Amazing the things it will tell ya....
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Cool bike with all the class of yesteryear and the technology of today. :)
Thanks Arizoni, I do love this EFI.... damn interesting. The people at Keihin are very clever..... great system.
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well done to both. great looking bike and a great build up :) due to the hand made parts etc etc - i guess i won't be fabricating one of these works of art..............well outa my skill area ::)
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I am guessing the 535 in the license plate is the scooterbob trademark "no replacement for displacement." Right ?
Anybody can up the displacement and go faster .... it takes a couple of REAL (stubborn Irish) men to "run what ya brung" and make it go faster. The displacement trick is probably next - with a different piston crown design ..... Heck - that little hotrod heep still has the stock piston in it!! Hahaha!
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Amazing work! I can't wait to get to my laptop so that I can see the photos full size. The solid lifter conversion and head work is intriguing to say the least. I'm impressed that you guys increased the hp 50% under the stock redline and efi system! Any pictures of the solid lifters and adjustable pushrods?
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If it is possible, can we please have a start-up/drive-by video of this machine? :D 8)
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Amazing work! I can't wait to get to my laptop so that I can see the photos full size. The solid lifter conversion and head work is intriguing to say the least. I'm impressed that you guys increased the hp 50% under the stock redline and efi system! Any pictures of the solid lifters and adjustable pushrods?
Thanks ! I do have pix of the lifter conversion. But unfortunately I do not for the adjustable rods. But , they are a simple Harley type arrangement , with threaded rod and lock nuts. The lifters from the exterior, look the same as the Harley like lifers used on the bike. The inner works were simply removed, And an alloy slug machined and fitted in place. The stock Lifter cup is retained..... and stronger retaining "C" clip is used in place of the stock retaining spring.
We really wanted to retain the stock hydraulics, They are good little units. BUT, for our performance mods.... They just did not pump consistently enough, and lifter pump became an issue. Not sure if these stock lifters are from a Harley ? But they are not from a late model sportster.... I grabbed the anti- pump versions of those. And they are not even close to whats in the UCE. Different size and arrangement..... But similar in appearance. So the solids became our alternative.
Stock springs were retained, also the stock valves were used.... though modified. Stock rockers and blocks. All put under some heavy flogging last year, with some pretty high compression. Not a problem. When the head was off most recently, the valves and seats were fine. The surfaces didn't need to be touched, and held fluid for well over 24 hrs.
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If it is possible, can we please have a start-up/drive-by video of this machine? :D 8)
Sure, here is a baseline Dyno run we did last year.... and one of it, in the garage running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXh1GbaeN5E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whtej9bHrOw
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Awesome! Even the camera couldn't handle that sound. I'm sure it sounds amazing in person! :D Good work.
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I already loved this bike, and now after watching those videos, I have that much more respect for it. I'd be honored to ride NEXT to your bike, so it must feel great riding it. ;)
Scottie
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Awesome! Even the camera couldn't handle that sound. I'm sure it sounds amazing in person! :D Good work.
LOL ! Yeah, pretty cool how it drowns out the Stones in the background completely. That piece was with the head only and in a decent state of tune. MUCH louder now. A more Machine gun like POP !
In the baseline dyno one. That was our first pull . Head only . With TPS adjustments. No PC-V. AFR's were pretty much dead on the line. That was a fourth gear pull , with stock gearing. You can hear and see it hitting the limiter pretty quick. Gearing changes had to be made. And as predicted by ScooterBob, There is significant loses through the props , between fouth and Fifth.
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I already loved this bike, and now after watching those videos, I have that much more respect for it. I'd be honored to ride NEXT to your bike, so it must feel great riding it. ;)
Scottie
Thanks !! Yeah, it IS a blast !
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Nice bike and thanks for the new screen saver ;) 8)
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I'd be honored to ride NEXT to your bike...
Or in my case, to chase it down the road as it leaves me in the dust... ;D
Nice one, boys!!!!!!!!!
In the baseline dyno one. That was our first pull . Head only . With TPS adjustments. No PC-V. AFR's were pretty much dead on the line. That was a fourth gear pull , with stock gearing. You can hear and see it hitting the limiter pretty quick. Gearing changes had to be made. And as predicted by ScooterBob, There is significant loses through the props , between fouth and Fifth.
I have no idea what you just said. But... it sure sounds exciting! We may be riding the same brand of motorcycle, and even speaking the same language, but... ;D
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Or in my case, to chase it down the road as it leaves me in the dust... ;D
Nice one, boys!!!!!!!!!
I have no idea what you just said. But... it sure sounds exciting! We may be riding the same brand of motorcycle, and even speaking the same language, but... ;D
Yeah........ You know Matt... Looking at that now !? Whut the hail kind of Jersey gibberish is that !? He..he..he.
Let me try that one again......
On our first test on a Dynometor, With ScooterBobs modified cylinder head. A freeer flowing Intake and exhaust, And only adjusting our air fuel Ratios in the combustion chamber by settings on the throttle position sensor.... using voltage readings. "Using my butt Dyno" and inspecting the spark plugs, and trial and error and such. We were able to set the air fuel ratio to the nice and rich side of Stoichiometric..... which would be around 13.2 to 1. I know...I know.. Images of a geeky guy named Stoich comes to mind. Here......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZaCKyoMQVM
Also we found that the bike makes more power in fifth gear then fourth. And I needed a bigger toof sprocket to keep me from hitting the RPM limiter so quick. The RPM Limiter is built into the computer on the bike...... which is a good thing...... to prevent someone from blowing up their motor. There is a bit of wiggle room in there...... but it's best to keep it where it is, and change that ONLY if you need to. The rev limiter works by cutting off the sparks and the fuel.
A POWER commander V, type devise. Is a thing that will Trick the bikes computer so one can make changes to the stock settings in that stock computer. And adjust the sparks and fuel.
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Nice bike and thanks for the new screen saver ;) 8)
Cool Mike ! Which one did you use ?
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You guys have built a great looking cafe racer out of C5!!...Wonderful job!!...Cant take my eyes out of the pictures!
What is the gauge for and is this still EFI? what are the engine mods that has been done?
Great work again guys!
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GHG -
great to know the stock EFI can handle increased HP. What pressure are you running the injection ? also, is your regulator vacuum modified ? stock injector -or- higher flow ?
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You guys have built a great looking cafe racer out of C5!!...Wonderful job!!...Cant take my eyes out of the pictures!
What is the gauge for and is this still EFI? what are the engine mods that has been done?
Great work again guys!
Thank You !
Yes it is still the stock (keihin) EFI system. The gauge is so I can see the fuel pressure. The gauge is mounted upside down, so as I'm riding the bike. I can simply look down between my arm and chest and see it.
Engine mods as of today:
ScooterBob JJ Head
ScooterBob JJ cams
Solid liters
Adjustable push rods
Modified stock head pipe... restriction cut off " Lava Rock Fiber" heat wrapped.
Emgo/ Hitchcocks Reverse Cone Megaphone
Velocity stacked turn out, intake runner. Adaptable to a pod filter
Power commander V For the 2009-2013 UCE Bikes, Piggy backed.
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GHG -
great to know the stock EFI can handle increased HP. What pressure are you running the injection ? also, is your regulator vacuum modified ? stock injector -or- higher flow ?
Yes it is Gremlin ! Stock fuel pressure.... 42 PSI. Stock injector, with plenty left. Fuel is regulated back to the tank using a Bosch/ VW Regulator. It has a range of adjustment on the Vacuum "Pub".
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Dyno sheet converted to and image............ D'oh ! I'm trying.... In the mean time, there is a download.
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That is BEAUTIFUL! Will it do the ton?
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Here's the dyno sheet as an image, ghg.
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Here's the dyno sheet as an image, ghg.
EXCELLENT !! Thanks boggy you the man ! You know how long I played with that !? Not great on Cornputors.....
That is BEAUTIFUL! Will it do the ton?
It sure should !!
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What a beautiful straight line- gotta love long stroke engines! Very impressive work. It makes me wonder what scooterbob's cams alone would do for hp gains, unless the stock lifters can't handle the extra lift?
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Removed
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What a beautiful straight line- gotta love long stroke engines! Very impressive work. It makes me wonder what scooterbob's cams alone would do for hp gains, unless the stock lifters can't handle the extra lift?
Yeah, these ARE are great motors ! And ScooterBob did some very nice work with the parts. Burned up a little cray matter on this one ! he..he..he. And hopefully we both have a few more wrinkles in the brain. That's an interesting thought on the Cams with a stock head........... Certainly the valve train geometry would be looked at. Clearance issues and such.....
I am sure SOME hydraulic lifters would work. I personally like solids for their consistency. BUT, Hydraulics have been used for years successfully in Cars and bikes for performance applications.
You would also have to address the changes in air flow through the intake, it's effect on the map sensor..... If any. Voltage readings the it's sending back to the ECU and etc. Basically a new map would likely be needed. etc.....etc.....etc. You can't just stick parts on..... intake, exhaust, Cams. And expect the stock ECU to adjust to these changes.... The ECU does have some learning in it, I believe. BUT to do it without thinking you will not have to make changes In the AFR's ?........... You may get away with it , with a filter or muffler? But modern bikes come pretty lean from the factory. So basically....... yeah, some things to look at.
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OUTFREAKINGSTANDING! I've been wanting to see the finished bike for a long time.
Good on ya both.
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That is BEAUTIFUL! Will it do the ton?
IF my calculations are correct, it should show us about 112mph on the dyno .... which ought to be about the ton in real life. Gearing is still an issue - we just haven't haven't had the road time with all the new tuning to suss it out - but the power's there. REAL, honest to goodness Scheidler Steam Traction Locomotive power. Stay tuned .... I can't have the Crash Test Dummy riding in the cold!! Hahahaha!
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OUTFREAKINGSTANDING! I've been wanting to see the finished bike for a long time.
Good on ya both.
DANO' !!!! How ya been man ! How's the back doin'?! Thanks ! Looks kinda Crazy, aye ?! Went deep in the depths of the Garage for a while and I haven't emerged !
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I can't have the Crash Test Dummy riding in the cold!! Hahahaha!
Probably not far of the mark with that !! :o
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Any possibility of getting a pair of ScooterBob cams for the UCE ?
Or, even the profiles ?
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Any possibility of getting a pair of ScooterBob cams for the UCE ?
Or, even the profiles ?
If all this works out well after a little testing, I may grind a few more sets .....
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I just checked into this thread again, and
WOW,
you guys really did a lot of work on this thing.
It not only has the looks, but it has the "GO" to go along with it!
Congratulations on a real nice result!
When we finally get our B5 done, maybe you and Chumma can go out and wake up some sleepy suburban NJ towns some week-end with some Royal Enfield UCE Thunder!
8)
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Sounds like a drag race in the making... Lol
Take videos for us proles to oogle.
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I just checked into this thread again, and
WOW,
you guys really did a lot of work on this thing.
It not only has the looks, but it has the "GO" to go along with it!
Congratulations on a real nice result!
When we finally get our B5 done, maybe you and Chumma can go out and wake up some sleepy suburban NJ towns some week-end with some Royal Enfield UCE Thunder!
8)
Well thank you Tom. I'm sure you can appreciate the amount of work that goes into these projects. And sleepy Suburban NJ towns !? ......Are there any left? ;) Oh..... that's right ! Way out to the south and west of here ! LOL ! As a matter of fact I think that would be great fun, riding with Chumma. Setting of Car alarms and cracking windshields..... from the sound.....
I can imagine the confusion, on the harley types faces.... as the bikes come down the street. "A double lung Sporty drag bike..perhaps" He...he..he.. NO !
And give my regards to Chumma, It would be nice to bump into him again. I am on the west side of Elizabeth. And if he is ever in the neighborhood, he is certainly welcome to stop by. But warn him, if he should bring the Fireball. To lay off the throttle some, as he comes down the street...... I think maybe, the town has a cop car stationed down the corner...... You know. 8)
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GSS
Someone posted a spy shot last month at the TU250 site! I was wondering who had built this Bullet! http://tu250riders.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1032&start=150
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We particularly got a kick out of this one GSS. COFFEE WALLACE !? LOL!
http://pistonbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/la-cafetera-de-wallace.html
And of course...... my brother and his band mates had some fun with it !
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I just checked into this thread again, and
WOW,
you guys really did a lot of work on this thing.
It not only has the looks, but it has the "GO" to go along with it!
Congratulations on a real nice result!
When we finally get our B5 done, maybe you and Chumma can go out and wake up some sleepy suburban NJ towns some week-end with some Royal Enfield UCE Thunder!
8)
Thanks for the kudo. I was doin' what I do best on the bike - TUNE! I figgered that the budget approach was the best - hence all the stock hardware - and the sweat equity. I've always done it that way - I've never had a pile of resources - but I've always to squeeze the stock stuff and make it a little better. Just remember - parts is parts ..... until you add the LOVE! Hahaha!
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Uhhh...dude....yah hey uh......there's this weird guy..and he's wearing a dress..an he's squeezing and octopus...yah..no realy,,,,annnnn he's sittin' on your bike...for real.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vVE-ZUSx1pk/UPz5gIO5jUI/AAAAAAAAMWs/gGbiTRjW78k/s1600/Renfield3.jpg)
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GHG,
This is brilliant! You have the most famous and most pirated C5 photos in the universe!
ScooterBob,
Maybe I can get you to dress up in "proper" riding gear for a photoshoot on my bike!
GSS
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Uhhh...dude....yah hey uh......there's this weird guy..and he's wearing a dress..an he's squeezing and octopus...yah..no realy,,,,annnnn he's sittin' on your bike...for real.
Yeah ! LOL ! Too funny! That right there is Bob the Piper. He he can blow some FIRE through those pipes as well ! LOL ! We have some fun too, for sure......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Rdk2POVxo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZFxJdUhSjg
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vVE-ZUSx1pk/UPz5gIO5jUI/AAAAAAAAMWs/gGbiTRjW78k/s1600/Renfield3.jpg)
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vVE-ZUSx1pk/UPz5gIO5jUI/AAAAAAAAMWs/gGbiTRjW78k/s1600/Renfield3.jpg)
EPIC !
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ScooterBob,
Maybe I can get you to dress up in "proper" riding gear for a photoshoot on my bike!
GSS
Now... THAT I would like to see GSS ! ;)
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ScooterBob & GHG,
This is truly a beautiful machine, visually and mechanically. The best looking Royal Enfield café concept I've seen to date. I like it!
Royal Enfield people are good people
Cheers,
Bill
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ScooterBob,
Maybe I can get you to dress up in "proper" riding gear for a photoshoot on my bike!
GSS
If by "proper", you mean the old racing leathers and my "good" helmet - I'm all for it!! Hahaha! I haven't worn a kilt in years and I'm horrible on the bagpipe .... although I can make a dog howl with one! Hahaha!
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ScooterBob & GHG,
This is truly a beautiful machine, visually and mechanically. The best looking Royal Enfield café concept I've seen to date. I like it!
Royal Enfield people are good people
Cheers,
Bill
Bill - I gotta give all the kudos to the Gorilla for his OUTSTANDING construction, fabrication and painting skillz. I just engineered a couple of engine parts for him and had a few ideas.
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BTW - I gotta add this. Use someone with a good dyno that knows how to use it. Our original results were skewed to the "fantastic" level by a goon running a dyno at the local Harley-Davis joint. :'( So every Sportster that's ever been on THAT dyno is probably 200 horsepower. ::) Harley horses are obviously smaller, so you get more of them into an engine, I think. Anyhoo - the current rear wheel power on the dyno is correct, I believe. Not as big a number as before - but Foe Rill .... and quite impressive to ME with just a little tuning!
I also gotta thank the Gashouse Gorilla for being the Crash Test Dummy for all my parts! You'ze Da MAN!! (in best Jersey accent!) ;)
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I just engineered a couple of engine parts for him and had a few ideas.
YEAH RIGHT !!.......... That's some Boooooo Sh....... right there Cuz !! ::) ;)
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I just spent a GREAT afternoon with GSS and his lovely daughter. It was a fun meeting, but we both agreed it needs to be just a tad warmer to ride! GHG - he sends his regards YOUR way as well!
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I just spent a GREAT afternoon with GSS and his lovely daughter. It was a fun meeting, but we both agreed it needs to be just a tad warmer to ride! GHG - he sends his regards YOUR way as well!
It would appear that the Tundra is thawing then Scooterbob !? :o Right back at ya GSS ! Thank you ;)
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It is always fun hanging out with ScooterBob.....definitely gets your gears turning thinking about ALL the possibilities! GHG the details of your engine are amazing......I think I almost talked ScooterBob into volunteering to do this for all members of this forum ;D
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It is always fun hanging out with ScooterBob.....definitely gets your gears turning thinking about ALL the possibilities! GHG the details of your engine are amazing......I think I almost talked ScooterBob into volunteering to do this for all members of this forum ;D
Gears spinning !?.... That boy will have your head spinning with the go fast stuff ! Keep talking to him GSS..... I would. Ummmmmm , a Blue C-5 Sleeper perhaps? Tell him to give that BSA a rest for a while !!
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It is always fun hanging out with ScooterBob.....definitely gets your gears turning thinking about ALL the possibilities! GHG the details of your engine are amazing......I think I almost talked ScooterBob into volunteering to do this for all members of this forum ;D
Almost ...... ;)
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Very tasty, but couldn't you find a bigger petcock? :P
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Is it the stock fuel tank?
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Is it the stock fuel tank?
No
Very tasty, but couldn't you find a bigger petcock? :P
Well..... I thought a two inch ball valve would be a bit overkill, for the pressurized EFI system. :o The 3/8 Brass valve and fittings worked out nicely, and they are functional for how we hooked up the fuel system. It's nice to have a Valve for maintenance reasons, as well as a sediment trap with a plug , to drain the Tank and system down. Also because of the external pressurized fuel lines...It's not a bad idea to have a big handled valve ;) I Figured I might take some flack for that.....But I like the brass, and I used it on the last Cafe I did. Looked cool I thought.... Matter of taste I guess. ;)
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the ball valve looks fine, but, it appears to be on the suction side of the pump.
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the ball valve looks fine, but, it appears to be on the suction side of the pump.
Thanks ! ;)
It is gremlin.... should the valve be accidentlley shut off While the bike is running..... Although not a good thing... The system will slowly lose pressure.... The bike will stall, and the pump will cut off. Re Priming the pump, is not a problem, a couple of hits on the kill switch and it primes it right up.
Sooo... The Stock ECU Controls the inline pump that we used. Just like it would the stock pump ...... Nuttin' going on in the combustion chamber.....no pump. And most of the left over pressurized fuel in the line, get burned off quickly.
We didn't use a separate "Switched"..... like a toggle..... pump circuit to run the pump.
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Whelp, weather is cold so it's time to get back into it and see what else we can do. From the frozen Tundra of the mid way, a nicely worked cylinder and a beautiful forged .020 over AVL piston from ScooterBob. The Cylinder was over bored a bit... for a nice fit. And also some pretty nice fin work, with the alternating paint and polish.
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Secksee
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Hell yeah! Luckily I have a whole new project so I don't have to tear apart the Blackhawk this winter. :)
Scottie
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Hell yeah! Luckily I have a whole new project so I don't have to tear apart the Blackhawk this winter. :)
Scottie
I Luvz projects..... what the hail else ya gonna do , with these god forsaken winters. Watch TV !? Hail no ! ;) That garage does get cold though man....
Think I'll lighten ,grind down, contour, and polish up the stock rocker's too. They are kinda sorta like slabs of foundry room floor scrap, turned and with a flat ground in.
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You need to get yourself a propane catalytic heater for your garage. I NEVER get cold! ;)
Scottie
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............ From the frozen Tundra of the mid way, a nicely worked cylinder and a beautiful forged .020 over AVL piston ..........
SWEET !
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You need to get yourself a propane catalytic heater for your garage. I NEVER get cold! ;)
Scottie
Yeah, or a nice 60,000 btu direct vent Modine up in the ceiling with a T-stat. Heat the garage up in like 4 seconds. My little infa -red ain't cuttin' it....
Ah, then the wife and kids would never see me! Lol. At least I gotta run in once in a while to take a.... The cold keeps you on your toes.
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Lightened Rockers...... After Grinding , shaping , whittling, sanding and polishing. 30 grams lighter each...
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Well done!
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So shiny! The precious!
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Nice! +1 Did you happen to take a before pic?
Scottie
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A few posts back he posted a pic of the rockers - still mounted in their bearing blocks, but you'll get the idea. Like Scott says, shiny! Try as I might, I can't look away...
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I see stuff like this and I get a strong urge to start taking my bike apart - just for fun! :o
What's wrong with me?
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@gashousegorilla...for better heat in the garage...nay I suggest "Jameson's". ;D
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@gashousegorilla...for better heat in the garage...nay I suggest "Jameson's". ;D
+1 ;D
GHG - About that, I wanted to also tell you that when I put my box fan on low behind my catalytic heater it acts like a forced air heater and heats up my garage to 75-80*F in less than 15 minutes. Then I usually shut it down for about 20 minutes or so and repeat the process. A 20# cylinder will last me a couple of weeks of regular use and the only time I get cold is when I run out of gas. ;)
Scottie
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Well done!
Thanks !
So shiny! The precious!
The shiny should .... besides cleaning up the ugly tool marks........ Help to make the arms even a little lighter, by making it easy for them to shed or "flick" oil off. Which would other wise accumulate on the rough and pock marked surface. In theory anyways.... Every little bit helps. A little hear , a little there and all.... But I really just could not stand the way they looked unfinished.
I see stuff like this and I get a strong urge to start taking my bike apart - just for fun! :o
What's wrong with me?
Nothings wrong with you Matt !...... Go get some and learn along the way. This shit is Fun !
It only takes a couple/few hours , with some basic tools to do it. Dremal...grinding wheel or belt sander... fine sandpaper...polishing wheel, and etc. Get creative and use what you got. Just leave the ball, shaft, and wipe surface alone. And you don't need to spend a mint ..... you already HAVE rockers . ...
It should help to let the bike rev up quicker, let the valve spring spend more time controlling the valve, instead of that massive weight on top of it, less wear and tear on the valve train and etc... lifters, rods and etc. Little things add up....
@gashousegorilla...for better heat in the garage...nay I suggest "Jameson's". ;D
Oh yes Brother..... I do believe in some internal heating as well ;) 8)
+1 ;D
GHG - About that, I wanted to also tell you that when I put my box fan on low behind my catalytic heater it acts like a forced air heater and heats up my garage to 75-80*F in less than 15 minutes. Then I usually shut it down for about 20 minutes or so and repeat the process. A 20# cylinder will last me a couple of weeks of regular use and the only time I get cold is when I run out of gas. ;)
Scottie
That is an excellent Idea Scottie..... I love it ! THATS being creative ! And you are SMART to shut that sucker down every once in a while. Most Cats don't.... that Co can kill ya if they let it build up. I have been responding and investigating those calls for many years..... It can get ugly.
After......
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Before.....
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Nice work on the rockers! I didn't know what they looked like originally so thanks for the pic. Back to heaters quick: I also pop the door open every couple hours to get some fresh air in the shop too. I learned my lesson in my early 20's doing a S10 small block swap. It was a cold ass Wisconsin winter and had the torpedo kerosene heater running for about 4-5 hours and about 1am almost passed out. So yeah. Lol
Scottie
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Nice work on the rockers! I didn't know what they looked like originally so thanks for the pic. Back to heaters quick: I also pop the door open every couple hours to get some fresh air in the shop too. I learned my lesson in my early 20's doing a S10 small block swap. It was a cold ass Wisconsin winter and had the torpedo kerosene heater running for about 4-5 hours and about 1am almost passed out. So yeah. Lol
Scottie
There you go Scottie ! ;) Not to get too far off track.... BUT..... Most people wonder why after a nice Thanksgiving or Christmas turkey dinner, everyone is tired? Well it ain't the chemical in the Turkey that's doing it . It's the four hours of that un-vented , pumping out 100 ppm of Co Oven doing It ! He..he..he Thanksgiving and Christmas can be our busiest days... They got fans above those ranges for a reason ! LOL...
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Nice work Mr. Gashouse- quite inspiring . The photo says it all. Less reciprocating mass- I'm interested to know how much change you can feel ? Less vibration, faster response - please do tell!
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Nice work Mr. Gashouse- quite inspiring . The photo says it all. Less reciprocating mass- I'm interested to know how much change you can feel ? Less vibration, faster response - please do tell!
Thanks Dave.... But it was not my Idea.. I was inspired by a legendary BSA , that use to tear up the Hills and Hollors' Of West Virginia back in the seventies..... he..he..he ;)
I will let you know once I get the top end back on. I got lazy yesterday, after finishing the rockers... and decided to watch the football game instead. :-\
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Some pics as I go along.......
The rockers in place on top of the head... for demonstration purposes only, showing the rods and how they lift.... The long rod actually goes on the exhaust side, they are reversed in the pic... sorry.
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The lifters down in their bores.... They "Lift" the "PUSH" rods....
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Installing the piston.... Wrist pin and clips.
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So cool
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Thanks Dave.... But it was not my Idea.. I was inspired by a legendary BSA , that use to tear up the Hills and Hollors' Of West Virginia back in the seventies..... he..he..he ;)
Well ...... Sometimes the ol' BSA got tore up as well. This is how one learns just HOW light a part can be ..... A really good current example are the connecting rods on the new 111-inch Polaris/Indian engine. They are not the pig-iron of the past, but rather very carefully engineered, powder-forged beryllium steel parts that are as strong as they need to be for the demands of the engine ..... and they are LIGHT, man! They put me in the mind of the Sportsman rods that I used to build the stock car engine with. They were about half the weight of a pig-iron Chev-uh-LAY rod - and just as strong. They'd handle about 14:1 compression and 8800rpm's ...... with a nodular iron crank that was 35 lbs. lighter than a forged one. Rev quick? You bet! You'd ping the rev limiter faster than you could pin and release the throttle at the carb. The old BSA was close ....... EVERYTHING in that engine went on a serious diet! ;) Hahaha! Grindin's cheap .... PARTS are expensive ......
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Well ...... Sometimes the ol' BSA got tore up as well. This is how one learns just HOW light a part can be ..... A really good current example are the connecting rods on the new 111-inch Polaris/Indian engine. They are not the pig-iron of the past, but rather very carefully engineered, powder-forged beryllium steel parts that are as strong as they need to be for the demands of the engine ..... and they are LIGHT, man! They put me in the mind of the Sportsman rods that I used to build the stock car engine with. They were about half the weight of a pig-iron Chev-uh-LAY rod - and just as strong. They'd handle about 14:1 compression and 8800rpm's ...... with a nodular iron crank that was 35 lbs. lighter than a forged one. Rev quick? You bet! You'd ping the rev limiter faster than you could pin and release the throttle at the carb. The old BSA was close ....... EVERYTHING in that engine went on a serious diet! ;) Hahaha! Grindin's cheap .... PARTS are expensive ......
Where's my Ring compressor !!....... All fired up now Cuz
Piston installed, rings in place. notice the Ring gaps. Piston and cylinder get lubbered up.....
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And slide it on there. I like to use a 4" hose clamp to compress the rings.... Install the studs and torque 'em down.
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And some clay.... Because I have ScooterBobs Jocko Johnson like, hot rod Head and Cams. I have to do some Checkin'... Maybe some deckin'. Don't wont those valve's hitting that lovely piston... Should be alright though. Always good to check !
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@GHG...man you guys are geniuses.....you make it look easy.....
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Piston installed, rings in place. notice the Ring gaps.
Ignorance (mine) in the house here: Are those typical gaps? Seems like a big opening for the gasses and forces of combustion to leak out - but obviously it must work...
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Where's my Ring compressor !!....... All fired up now Cuz
Piston installed, rings in place. notice the Ring gaps. Piston and cylinder get lubbered up.....
I must slightly correct this ...... ring gaps should NEVER be on the thrust side of the piston. When the piston "rocks" in the bore under combustion pressure, it's possible to dig a ring corner into the cylinder wall. I like to place the compression rings 180 degrees apart, halfway between the pin and the thrust side of the slug. Nit picky? Yeah .... but I can't help it! Comes with the territory, I s'pose ;)
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And slide it on there. I like to use a 4" hose clamp to compress the rings.... Install the studs and torque 'em down.
What deck height did you end up with ...... I'm curious. I'm GUESSING about .015" down in the hole? A stocker is around .040". We don't any of those compressions to get out, you know! ;D
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Ignorance (mine) in the house here: Are those typical gaps? Seems like a big opening for the gasses and forces of combustion to leak out - but obviously it must work...
Matt - the gaps are measured in the bore. The way they appear on the slug when it's out of the hole has nothing to do with the finished install .... they'll squish right down in there! Hahaha!
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@GHG...man you guys are geniuses.....you make it look easy.....
Of COURSE we are geniuses ..... We are Celtic - we can't help it! BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA!! ;D ..... and it IS easy. All you have to do is sit in the shed for hours on end with a little Glenn Miller on the radio and a little sippin' elixir in the 12oz. tumbler and drill, tap and grind until your heart's content. What could be easier than THAT? ;)
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Matt - the gaps are measured in the bore. The way they appear on the slug when it's out of the hole has nothing to do with the finished install .... they'll squish right down in there! Hahaha!
Ah. Thanks!
ScooterBob, you're answering posts faster than I can read them!
ring gaps should NEVER be on the thrust side of the piston.
As in, the ring gaps should line up with the pin, rather than be 90° off?
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I must slightly correct this ...... ring gaps should NEVER be on the thrust side of the piston. When the piston "rocks" in the bore under combustion pressure, it's possible to dig a ring corner into the cylinder wall. I like to place the compression rings 180 degrees apart, halfway between the pin and the thrust side of the slug. Nit picky? Yeah .... but I can't help it! Comes with the territory, I s'pose ;)
ohooooo your good.... And payin' attention ! All slid around nice on the final slide on.
What deck height did you end up with ...... I'm curious. I'm GUESSING about .015" down in the hole? A stocker is around .040". We don't any of those compressions to get out, you know! ;D
Closing my one good eye and squinting.... Yeah, that looks about right Cuz. ;)
@GHG...man you guys are geniuses.....you make it look easy.....
Just common sense.... nuts and bolts ..... and a service manual is all. Easy peasy. Oh ! And a torque wrench ! ;) And if I was a genius Bulletman... I wouldn't be a gashousegorilla !.... or show a pic of them rigs in the wrong position ! LOL !
Ah. Thanks!
ScooterBob, you're answering posts faster than I can read them!
As in, the ring gaps should line up with the pin, rather than be 90° off?
He's probably out in the shed, honing on his WM20 jug... looking to make the world fastest Military bike ! 8) I'll see if I can get you a better pic of what he means. In the mean time.....
http://image.musclemustangfastfords.com/f/tech/9169875/mmfp_0711_05_z%2Bford_small_block_stroker_engine_build%2Brod_angularity_and_piston_side_thrust.jpg
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@GHG:
Looks very impressive. You and SB are making this Racer better and better :).
I hope you can ride it sometime before we get snow storms and noreasters, that we get every winter. It will be hard to wait till spring to take it out for a spin !
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I'll see if I can get you a better pic of what he means. In the mean time.....
http://image.musclemustangfastfords.com/f/tech/9169875/mmfp_0711_05_z%2Bford_small_block_stroker_engine_build%2Brod_angularity_and_piston_side_thrust.jpg
Ah - gotcha. I imagine you'd get the most side thrust during the power stroke, but also perhaps some on the opposite side of the piston during compression? Even though the piston is traveling in different directions, there's still a "downward"(i.e. away from the head) force during each phase...
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Closing my one good eye and squinting.... Yeah, that looks about right Cuz. ;)
That's how I checked the gap on my last set of piston rings. It looked like 0.2mm. :D
Scott
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@GHG:
Looks very impressive. You and SB are making this Racer better and better :).
I hope you can ride it sometime before we get snow storms and noreasters, that we get every winter. It will be hard to wait till spring to take it out for a spin !
Thanks Singh.... and boy, you ain't kiddin'. Getting windy and cold today. Hopefully, at least get her out and broken it... better ride it like I rented it ! ;)
That's how I checked the gap on my last set of piston rings. It looked like 0.2mm. :D
Scott
THAT's a little ScooterBob-orizm.... YOU know ;D ;)
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Of COURSE we are geniuses ..... We are Celtic - we can't help it! BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA!! ;D ..... and it IS easy. All you have to do is sit in the shed for hours on end with a little Glenn Miller on the radio and a little sippin' elixir in the 12oz. tumbler and drill, tap and grind until your heart's content. What could be easier than THAT? ;)
Turn off the Glenn Miller & tune into MPR and you'd be describing my shed.
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Ah - gotcha. I imagine you'd get the most side thrust during the power stroke, but also perhaps some on the opposite side of the piston during compression? Even though the piston is traveling in different directions, there's still a "downward"(i.e. away from the head) force during each phase...
Here you go Matt. I had a little time in the garage tonight and I drew it out for you, down and dirty on the top of the old piston.
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And pretty much a MUST when working on the top end of these bikes..... Is a nice long reach magnet. Those head stud nuts LOVE to fall down the push rod tunnels, on the right side, as your putting them on. Beats pulling the head back off ...... just sayin' ::)
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Thanks GHG! As for the magnet, I guess we don't have to ask how you learned about that trick... probably a long time ago! ;)
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Magnetic pick up tools are a MUST! I have a small and medium sized Snap On ones that are so super strong. Really nice to have on any given task.
Scottie
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+1 on the mag pickup tools!
Finally read through this thread, and OMG this is cool! Love what you two have done so far, and I'll be paying more attention. :D
Great logic and carry-through on the rockers BTW!
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+1 on the mag pickup tools!
Finally read through this thread, and OMG this is cool! Love what you two have done so far, and I'll be paying more attention. :D
Great logic and carry-through on the rockers BTW!
That was a Long read ! Thanks ;) It's been a long time having fun with this bike as well.
Thanks GHG! As for the magnet, I guess we don't have to ask how you learned about that trick... probably a long time ago! ;)
Yes..... You could also just remove the tappet ( lifter) inspection cover and grab them that way. But , who wants to reseal that cover if you don't have to. There is NO gasket on it.... just goop. I should make one, now that I think of it ?
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There is NO gasket on it.... just goop. I should make one, now that I think of it ?
Well you could, but...
..who wants to reseal that cover if you don't have to.
:P
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That was a Long read !
yes it was, but once I started I couldn't stop! ;D
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Well you could, but...
:P
D' OH !! ......... LOL ! Your right Scott. ;) I should been more clear, and stop thinking out loud as I type ! Of course... no need to with Hydraulics. But I'm using adjustable rods, and it would be nice to adjust, through the cover back on after I adjust , with a Gasket. I'm always thinking about this stuff... and... Sometimes things just leak out of my brain uncontrollably :-\ ::)
And ... while I'm thinking about it. Does anybody out there, have a line on where I could find some threaded pushrod top cups? These are ones I used to make up some rod length checkers from Jegs. And they work really nice..... nice easy adjustment. BUT ... they are soft metal, and won't hold up to my thrashing. they are for checkers only...... The rod builders out they don't seem to make them is this particular configuration.
yes it was, but once I started I couldn't stop! ;D
He...he...he..he ;) :)
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That pic looks like a plan to get tin foil, zip ties, custom polished rockers, and a tartan (aka "all things ScooterBob) into one shot. Was there a glass of whiskey I missed?
Scott
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LMAO Scott ! Nooooo...... TOO long of a ride out to the Tundra ! But hows about a bottle ? We like to have fun when we build........
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That's not keeping the mice out! It's inviting the Irish mice in!
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That's not keeping the mice out! It's inviting the Irish mice in!
He..he..he..he. Yeah Your probably right ! LOL !
You know..... I believe that was from when we were talking about a TOONED exhaust. You know... and I get confused easily ! :-\ ::)
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And pretty much a MUST when working on the top end of these bikes..... Is a nice long reach magnet. Those head stud nuts LOVE to fall down the push rod tunnels, on the right side, as your putting them on. Beats pulling the head back off ...... just sayin' ::)
I've seen more than a couple of those nuts "Factory Installed" on top of the lifters ....... :-\
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That pic looks like a plan to get tin foil, zip ties, custom polished rockers, and a tartan (aka "all things ScooterBob) into one shot. Was there a glass of whiskey I missed?
Scott
The Loomyum foil goes on mah haid ..... to keep the Gub'mint rays out ....... ;D Heeheehee!
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The Loomyum foil goes on mah haid ..... to keep the Gub'mint rays out ....... ;D Heeheehee!
Besides keeping the Gub'mint at bay ;)...... That foam/foil insulating wrap, works nice on fuel lines that come close to heat sources.
Damn ScooterBob !! THAT... is some BIG lift on those Hotrod cams... Gotta work some math now.... and figure out how many sections of head gasket I need.
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And some handy marks made on the rotor for easier valve adjustment......
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What deck height did you end up with ...... I'm curious. I'm GUESSING about .015" down in the hole? A stocker is around .040". We don't any of those compressions to get out, you know! ;D
Don't think we have to worry about that Cuz..... NICE work I must say ! ;) More like ....005 EXcellent !
Sooo... all socked down with stock base gasket and three sectioned stock head gasket.. we come up with....
65- 70 thou valve to piston clearance at TDC... And puts us in the quench band at 60 thou.. With a little wiggle room on the three sectioned gasket. Think I'll give it a go like this first....
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Whelp.... after a LONG cold 7 day work week last week.. I was able to get back on it today. And i was able to button up the top end. And it IS a nice bump in compression. And I have NO doubt that the that the AVL piston crown will look as clean as the stocker did, with ScooterBobs combustion chamber design ;)
A few more pics.... not comprehensive, but just as I go along..
Copper sprayed head gasket...reused and in perfect shape.
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Sliding the head nuts down to the studs, using a long thin screw driver shaft , makes things easier. There are TWO nuts under the rockers.... so if you don't see 'em? You need to take the rockers blocks off ! And.... torquing them down crosswise. I like to sneak up on the torgue spec ...give the head a few TAPS with the mallet, then finish off torquing it down. Let the head sit for a while.... then check the torque again.
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I use the mag tool to start those. If they thread then the mag pulls right off :)
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Like it scott ! ;)
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And something to be aware of when reinstalling the intake. Make sure that curved notch , on the insulator does not have left over material left on it from manufacture... And lines up WITH THE INJECTOR ! Head buttoned up and back to work.....
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Can't wait to hear/see some video of that beast running! Looking real good GHG!
Scottie
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Can't wait to hear/see some video of that beast running! Looking real good GHG!
Scottie
Muhahahahaha!..... Muhahhahaha! .... The Beast breaths and lives Scottie! He...he..he. Time for some lunch. Got to go grab some gas , oil, and I think I'll splurge for a new spark plug ? Then some tweekin' ..... It Sounds good man.. Real good.
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Muhahahahaha!..... Muhahhahaha! .... The Beast breaths and lives Scottie! He...he..he. Time for some lunch. Got to go grab some gas , oil, and I think I'll splurge for a new spark plug ? Then some tweekin' ..... It Sounds good man.. Real good.
F'ing A! :D
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A quicky vid of the bike running. I was unable to ride it. >:( HORRIBLE weather here ! Temps in the 30's... rain... sleet ... snow.. Hoefully the weather breaks after tomorrow :-\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJa3Yz6fZBM
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Sweetness! It definitely sounds more snappy and than I remember from the video you posted in the spring. Listening to the exhaust note, it has that distinct "pop" generally associated with a higher compression motor that you don't hear on a standard UCE motor. I'd say mission accomplished. ;) What was your previous top speed before you tore the top end down again? Did you do a cylinder compression test to get a relative idea of the compression bump achieved?
Scottie
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Sweetness! It definitely sounds more snappy and than I remember from the video you posted in the spring. Listening to the exhaust note, it has that distinct "pop" generally associated with a higher compression motor that you don't hear on a standard UCE motor. I'd say mission accomplished. ;) What was your previous top speed before you tore the top end down again? Did you do a cylinder compression test to get a relative idea of the compression bump achieved?
Scottie
Yeah, it definitely SOUNDS sweeter.... But also maybe a little restricted. looking at THAT today. But I want to at least get it out for a run today if the rain stops. Compression IS up as you can hear...... I did show 94 , on the GPS on my phone during the summer. For top speed stuff, as opposed to good mid range ? Yeah... I think we'll have to take a look at the gearing and probably that header.
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Thumpy and Snappy...
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Thumpy and Snappy...
Yeah, and crackley and poppy...... Might be time to make a bigger header. Took a little closer look at the stock header today. It is actually quite well made... if not I little small for my needs now.... Something we did not see earlier. Down near the silencer connection ,the double wall pipe also houses an anti-reversion hole and chamber...pretty trick.
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A quicky vid of the bike running. I was unable to ride it. >:( HORRIBLE weather here ! Temps in the 30's... rain... sleet ... snow.. Hoefully the weather breaks after tomorrow :-\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJa3Yz6fZBM
SWEET ! That mod is on the To-Do list for me !
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Oh man...she has gotta snarl !!
Sounds like a wildcat! Sadly I feel the soundtrack was telling...
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Oh man...she has gotta snarl !!
Sounds like a wildcat! Sadly I feel the soundtrack was telling...
Ah well..... ::) ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QClaGbPuJ-A
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Oh yeah! That's what I'm talkin about!
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Definitely has a nice snarl sound, GHG.
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Ah well..... ::) ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QClaGbPuJ-A
Thanks GHG. I went from reading about motorcycles to watching a 45 minute special on mountain lions preying on desert big horn sheep. ;) I didn't even know there was such a thing. ???
Scottie
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GHG - You got that pipe done YET??? ::) ::) ;D
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GHG - You got that pipe done YET??? ::) ::) ;D
Do you believe the NERVE of these supply houses be closed on thanksgiving !! ..... I just may have to go sneakin' around .... do a little checkin' around the dumpsters behind the Muffler shops?........ What ? :-[ ::) Ah.... I could wait a day. MAYBE !? :o
Thanks GHG. I went from reading about motorcycles to watching a 45 minute special on mountain lions preying on desert big horn sheep. ;) I didn't even know there was such a thing. ???
Scottie
GOTCHA ! He..he..he.. Got caught in one of those endless tube loops aye ? Well this should put you back on track... SB loves to make me stretch my brains with stuff like this, then quiz... And makes you see stuff you didn't even think of. Very cool........ Have fun !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_E-x5tHoHk
Definitely has a nice snarl sound, GHG.
Thanks Ace !
SWEET ! That mod is on the To-Do list for me !
Get some !
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Now that is a cool video!
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Now that is a cool video!
One of my favorites..... Your finished now ! LONG day for you...LOL ! :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3KdpzL3Hkk
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Wunderbar!
1220 hours.
Reminds me of that miniature working model of a Ducati I saw pictures of at an exhibition or show in Italy.
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Anybody got that Harbor Freight Pipe bender coupon !?.... Muffler shops around here are useless ! >:( :-\
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Anybody got that Harbor Freight Pipe bender coupon !?.... Muffler shops around here are useless ! >:( :-\
http://www.savings.com/Harbor-Freight/search/coupons.html?id=237788&clickid=167904071-1385771088390-4274809311485981418&placementid=19454598&utm_campaign=Harbor+Freight+Tools+Broad+Modifier&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=msn&searchTerm=harbor+freight+20%25+off+coupon+2013&utm_term=harbor+freight+20%25+off+coupon+2013#p-2289389
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Holy guacamole !! Look at that ! Up to 80% off today !......... Once again Cuz , youse' the man ;)
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DAAAAANG!!!!!! I need some swivel sockets anyways. Look out Harbor Freight!
Scottie
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Oh ! Btw , with all this talk about the pipe.... I forgot ! I was able to get it out today for a bit of a run. Even with the old pipe...... the bike sure feels like it has bit more twork ;) Finding it even harder to keep from bouncing off the limiter ....gonna have to relearn how to shift this bike, or do something about that ! She likes to rev 8)
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The top of the header... port side... with flange cut off showing the small inner tube, and expansion chamber. The smaller tube is also restriction for the O2 sensor...so it can get a good read on things. As predicted by ScooterBob
. And trying out different flange arrangements for the new pipe....
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I bailed out on buying the pipe bender and stopped into a muffler shop this morning, where Herb the owner attacked it like a mad scientist ! He was very into it, and did a outstanding job. ;)
The new header bent up with new flange..... And on the bike, ready to be tuned and cut to length....
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........
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What an OUTSTANDING job! Often, those boys "don't get it" - but you've found one who does! Kudo's to him! ;D
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Yeah.... you're not kidding ! He jumped out of his office and attacked! Herb has some MAD skillz ! ::) It WAS something different for a change......
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I changed my burnt out neutral light. You've got way more initiative than I do on holidays ;)
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I changed my burnt out neutral light. You've got way more initiative than I do on holidays ;)
Gorillas don't lay around like I do on the Holly-daze ...... they go out and geeter DUNN! ;) I can GET fired up like GHG - but he's in the constant state of it!! Hahaha!
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I changed my burnt out neutral light. You've got way more initiative than I do on holidays ;)
Thanks Scott ;)...... But no, not initiative. There is just something wRoNG with me when it comes to this stuff. :-\ ::)
Gorillas don't lay around like I do on the Holly-daze ...... they go out and geeter DUNN! ;) I can GET fired up like GHG - but he's in the constant state of it!! Hahaha!
See above ;)........ Alright, let me go back out to the garage and see what else I can do..... while the wife ain't lookin' :o
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I managed to rustle up some initiative, but only enough to figure out how to deep fry turkey leftovers :)
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Ohoooooo .... That's a good idea Scotty ! :P
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Mean while.. Back at it with the pipe tuning, finding the sweet spot. Trying to catch that laaaast nice blue pulse in the Meggy... resonance... scavenging and all.... You know. And speaking of big lift , lumpy and aggressive Cams ! Well , maybe just a little ? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Wrb2swmkM&feature=youtu.be
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Mean while.. Back at it with the pipe tuning, finding the sweet spot. Trying to catch that laaaast nice blue pulse in the Meggy... resonance... scavenging and all.... You know. And speaking of big lift , lumpy and aggressive Cams ! Well , maybe just a little ? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Wrb2swmkM&feature=youtu.be
It's beginning to sound a lot like ........ HORSEPOWER!! ..... and all from a bunch of old home-made, back-woods garage parts. Go figger! ;)
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Mean while.. Back at it with the pipe tuning, finding the sweet spot. Trying to catch that laaaast nice blue pulse in the Meggy... resonance... scavenging and all.... You know. And speaking of big lift , lumpy and aggressive Cams ! Well , maybe just a little ? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Wrb2swmkM&feature=youtu.be
Very nice ! did you reduce the base circle of the cams ? if so, by how much ?
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Very nice ! did you reduce the base circle of the cams ? if so, by how much ?
Can you DO such things?? I thought only engineers and cam grinders and dynamicists could do stuff like that ........ ;) (about .120" or so .... that's what GHG tells me I did, anyway .... ::) )
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Yup... Squintin' my one good eye , and my fancy Mico- ometer.. That it is! But I hear it's not all about hogging out the ports? And lift and all? All though that's good stuff ! I hear that the cumbustion chamber is important too? With all that swirl and stuff, directing it in the right places... Or sumthin'?
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Yup... Squintin' my one good eye , and my fancy Mico- ometer.. That it is! But I hear it's not all about hogging out the ports? And lift and all? All though that's good stuff ! I hear that the cumbustion chamber is important too? With all that swirl and stuff, directing it in the right places... Or sumthin'?
LMAO ;D
Sounds great!
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Very nice ! did you reduce the base circle of the cams ? if so, by how much ?
This is a good, basic tutorial ...........
http://www.tildentechnologies.com/Cams/CamDesign.html
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Mean while.. Back at it with the pipe tuning, finding the sweet spot. Trying to catch that laaaast nice blue pulse in the Meggy... resonance... scavenging and all.... You know. And speaking of big lift , lumpy and aggressive Cams ! Well , maybe just a little ? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Wrb2swmkM&feature=youtu.be
AWESOME GHG !
This is a good, basic tutorial ...........
http://www.tildentechnologies.com/Cams/CamDesign.html
SB:
From this basic tutorial link, it is clear that since you read and understand this kind of material of quadratic equations polynomials ... written by PHDs, you must have alphabets like FRCMDPHDBEMES... behind your name, you just won't admit ;). Thanks for the link.
Quotes from the Tilden Technologies -
"Most automotive enthusiasts are easily exploited because they don't understand camshafts and cam design. We have developed this website to share what we have learned.
Larry got his start with numerical methods back in the 1970's using the Orthogonal Collocation method. When this method was picked up for simulating valve spring dynamics, he realized that some aspects of the method were never explained very well. For this reason, he developed a hands-on tutorial on the method which includes downloads of code in Fortran 90, C++ and Excel.
Vita Larry Young
Larry received a B.S.Ch.E from Texas Tech in 1970. An M.S.Ch.E in 1972 and Ph.D. in Chemical Engineering in 1974 both from U. of Washington. He spent 1975 thru 1983 in the Research Department at Amoco Production Co. working in petroleum reservoir simulation and enhanced oil recovery. In 1984 he founded Reservoir Simulation Research Corp. with a principal business of development and licensing of reservoir simulation software. After selling the company in 1996 and a brief period with the successor company, he retired from full time work.
."[/color]
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Mean while.. Back at it with the pipe tuning, finding the sweet spot. Trying to catch that laaaast nice blue pulse in the Meggy... resonance... scavenging and all.... You know. And speaking of big lift , lumpy and aggressive Cams ! Well , maybe just a little ? ;)
Well, I guess it did blow the camera away!
Bare
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This is a good, basic tutorial ...........
http://www.tildentechnologies.com/Cams/CamDesign.html
Thank You !
jerk..... that's the word I was looking for !
Yes, I'll have a set of Jerk cams please !
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Tutorial- check . Measurements- check . Micro- thingy - check .
You guys fkin ROCK.
Now if only I could stop riding long enough to tweak....
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Hey GHG just wondering ... Why did you change your fuel pump ? Was it not moving enough?
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SB:
From this basic tutorial link, it is clear that since you read and understand this kind of material of quadratic equations polynomials ... written by PHDs, you must have alphabets like FRCMDPHDBEMES... behind your name, you just won't admit ;). Thanks for the link.
."[/i][/color]
No such thing ...... I just go deep and read a LOT ..... and I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once ...... ::) But seriously - this stuff is not beyond the realm of the regular fellow - you just have to WANT to make the knowledge yours. Regular fellows who study in college become engineers - and my hero, Henry Yunick, started Embry Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Florida - without the benefit of ever setting foot in a university. The only initials I have as far as engineering goes are "UHK" ...... My formal college training is in education - my passion is tuning.
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Thank You !
jerk..... that's the word I was looking for !
Yes, I'll have a set of Jerk cams please !
That's the OTHER guy that makes parts ....... ::) ::) ;D
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No such thing ...... I just go deep and read a LOT ..... and I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once ...... ::) But seriously - this stuff is not beyond the realm of the regular fellow - you just have to WANT to make the knowledge yours. Regular fellows who study in college become engineers - and my hero, Henry Yunick, started Embry Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Florida - without the benefit of ever setting foot in a university. The only initials I have as far as engineering goes are "UHK" ...... My formal college training is in education - my passion is tuning.
Iskenderian...... Faraday.....Robert "Jocko" Johnson.......Ramanujan......Shelby.....Edison..... Etc...etc.. ;)
That's the OTHER guy that makes parts ....... ::) ::) ;D
Thank You !
jerk..... that's the word I was looking for !
Yes, I'll have a set of Jerk cams please !
D 'oh !!! :o Excessive Jerk !..... can cause instability, in the valve train that is ;D And only Cam jerks, would give other Jerks cams, that were not yet fully .....Jerked !
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Iskenderian...... Faraday.....Robert "Jocko" Johnson.......Ramanujan......Shelby.....Edison..... Etc...etc.. ;)
... Steve Jobs .....Bill Gates....etc.
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D 'oh !!! :o Excessive Jerk !..... can cause instability, in the valve train that is ;D And only Cam jerks, would give other Jerks cams, that were not yet fully .....Jerked !
So does the jerk jerk the jerk cams to the left and right in a circular motion to get just the right amount of jerk needed to jerk the valves with the jerk cams?
Man, now I want some beef jerky. ;D
Scottie
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Tutorial- check . Measurements- check . Micro- thingy - check .
You guys fkin ROCK.
Now if only I could stop riding long enough to tweak....
That's the hardest part of it Dave !..... But then again, we have a pretty long winter around here. ;)
Hey GHG just wondering ... Why did you change your fuel pump ? Was it not moving enough?
No special reason Dave. I just chose to use a different tank for the bike. Although it WOULD HAVE been much easier to use the stock tank.. . I just liked the tank I chose , with seat /cowl and fender combination. Just thought the proportions looked right for the bike... to me at least. But , keeping the stock RE front end. I was just thinking...... it had to look like a Cafe Racer, but it had to look like it was a RE Cafe Racer ..... You know ? And retain the distinctive front end.. Otherwise it would look like every other Cafe' out there, except with a different motor. :-\ AND...... I had made the tank and tins for another project. But, honestly I lost complete interest in it shortly after getting the C5. Ruined me for other bikes ...
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So does the jerk jerk the jerk cams to the left and right in a circular motion to get just the right amount of jerk needed to jerk the valves with the jerk cams?
Man, now I want some beef jerky. ;D
Scottie
Ahhhh ??........ YEAH ! That's it ! ;) ;D
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That's the hardest part of it Dave !..... But then again, we have a pretty long winter around here. ;)
I don't wanna HEAR any crap about your measly three-month winter in New Jersey! ::) Up here in the REAL tundra, we get winter from October 'til May ...... and that's a LOT of time to read up on tuning and make parts! ;) ;D
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HAHAHAHAHAHA !!..... oh geez :'( Maybe so, Maybe so, but add in the.... My arse is getting old factor, and it's more like 5.
Alright.....Alright....Alright, I hear ya . :-[ ::)
Gitter Dunn, will gitter..... just one more wee little Christmas party tonight, ::) and the weekend is mine !! It's all ready... just gotta bolt it up.... I hope. LOL ! ;)
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That's the OTHER guy that makes parts ....... ::) ::) ;D
:o 8) ;D ;D ;D
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The big Pipe is done.... cut and tuned. I would say, with the most recent mods.... we are having the desired effects ;) Man....... I am leeeeeaaaannnnn in the mid and upper ranges ! :P Might be time to tweak that MAP.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gFh_cpWI5Y&feature=youtu.be
Maybe starting to sound a little bit like these now, I hope ? 8)......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLwutov5reA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSEg61NnQKM
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.......Man....... I am leeeeeaaaannnnn in the mid and upper ranges ! .......
time for a fatter injector .....
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The big Pipe is done.... cut and tuned. I would say, with the most recent mods.... we are having the desired effects ;) Man....... I am leeeeeaaaannnnn in the mid and upper ranges ! :P Might be time to tweak that MAP.......
If you'd feed that animal enough to make it run now - you'd scare yourself on it ...... it's very nearly Manx-like!
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time for a fatter injector .....
Maybe Gremlin...Just maybe ?... Or maybe not ? The last time up on the Dyno, the injector duty cycle didn't get above 40% at most. That's what the PC-V software was showing anyway....
If you'd feed that animal enough to make it run now - you'd scare yourself on it ...... it's very nearly Manx-like!
Scarry Now !.... How quick I got it up to 90 indicated in traffic. Have to lay off the happy handle a bit till I can get her tuned, got a weeee bit hot ;)
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Capital A for awesome!
Cheers me up from my troubles and woe's. :)
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now on my wallpaper at work and home, having supplanted stella stevens. very cool!
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now on my wallpaper at work and home, having supplanted stella stevens. very cool!
Man..... Are you sure !? SHE was pretty hot !! Thanks, ;)
http://www.2flashgames.com/photo/file/stella_stevens/Stella_Stevens_0005.jpg
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Man..... Are you sure !? SHE was pretty hot !! Thanks, ;)
http://www.2flashgames.com/photo/file/stella_stevens/Stella_Stevens_0005.jpg
Damn it GHG! Stop posting pics of hot chicks that I can't view! >:(
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Yeah ! What he said ! That's just cruel!
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Damn it GHG! Stop posting pics of hot chicks that I can't view! >:(
Yeah ! What he said ! That's just cruel!
Alright.....alright quite your wining' youse' two ;) Geez Louise , can't ya click on a link !
Like I said, I'm might pick the Girl instead of the bike.....
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Vintage Sexy. +1 Thanks!
FYI I tried to click on the link, it said I'm forbidden. I guess I'll have to take that one up with God. ;D
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Be still my beating heart!
She'd look good with a leg draped over an Enfield !
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draped over just about anything...
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Ok, a little up date on the most recent mods to the bike over the winter..... Finally got some time to get it on a Dyno, and get a tune on her and see what she can do. Besides the AVL piston, lightened rockers and etc. We put in some new valve springs, beehive's... retainers and keepers. To further lighten the valve train AND to keep it under control for the added 1000 RPM's we can now rev it to, with the rev extend feature on the PC-V. The result's are 33.25 HP and 34.75 ft lbs of torque at the wheel. Or about another 10 % increase over the previous set up. I'm guessing ?.... We are in the neighborhood of 40 HP give or take, at the crank .
Also, we are trying a intake mod that mounts in the intake manifold which is showing promise and gains . It's called the "FIN" . Developed and tested by local tuner's Pete Burger and Shawn Eisenmenger on other applications . It basically helps with the flow in the manifold by reducing the air drag on the walls of the manifold. We are playing with that now and see what we can do.
Dyno sheet on a file below.....
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Nice work! 8)
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Wow! You're getting a snot load of power out of that thing. Nice move with the beehives to combat the valve float. I'm looking forward to more info on the intake mod.
Scott
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That bike should be able to do the Ton now.
It has got good power.
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Nice work! 8)
Thanks Scottie ;) ...... BTW, how much do you weigh ? ??? ;D
That bike should be able to do the Ton now.
It has got good power.
It should and yeah Tom, the power is getting up there, little bit at a time. We'll see how it does this summer ? Maybe I'll get it out to an air strip in the Midwest . Might need a little lighter rider?...... See above ;D
Wow! You're getting a snot load of power out of that thing. Nice move with the beehives to combat the valve float. I'm looking forward to more info on the intake mod.
Scott
Yeah Scott the springs help....A LOT ! They are comp cam springs , retainers, keepers. The seat cups are from Ferrara...And if I remember ? The lash caps are from Manley. It all works nice together. I did a pull on the dyno about a month or so ago, extending the limiter at that time. And the stock springs are useless above 5500 max and done AND blowing out the intake at 5800. My numbers were roughly the same back then, maybe a little lower? BUT much harder to get there. So we stopped tuning and testing, and ScooterBob and I put our heads together and cam up with some springs. They seem to be working nicely up to 6000 , and all you can see, that's all I need right now. Enough spring , but not too much. Also if need be in the future, seat pressure and over the nose can be adjusted.
As far as the Intake mod it's an interesting devise... He sets it up on a flow bench I believe. And positions it based on you motor and mods... if any mods. And kick's in above 2500 rpm's so I understand. Positioning is key I believe. So we'll see ? it's pretty cool, and I'll test and play with anything. I my case on this first go around ... it bumped up the horses a bit in the mid- to upper range.
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That will be the first EFI UCE doing the TON !
CONGRATULATIONS GHG !!!
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That will be the first EFI UCE doing the TON !
CONGRATULATIONS GHG !!!
LOL ! Thanks for the encouragement Singh ;)
I was actually thinking of you in the Dyno booth, and wished I had a camera !..... Dangit ! It's very interesting to watch the cooling features of these motors, really outstanding. At a cold start you can see how the injector is cycling a bunch of fuel... but the AFR reading at the header through the sniffer is very lean.... like 18 to 1. BUT, as soon as you pull that by-starter it goes rich , right to around 14 to 1 as that fuel vaporizes. Hold it there for a few, let it go.... and it stays rich, and gets richer as it warms.
Guess, we spent around two hours on the Dyno ? And I don't think the temperature read over 220F taken at the base of the spark plug....... And that was when the bike was really ripping in the upper RPM's for a sustained period . But as the RPM's dropped, so did the temp..... quickly and a lot ! And would settle in around the 170's . Some of that had to due with the richer AFR's of my bike. But most of it is from that oil pump and system. I'm very impressed with it and the bottom end in general, which hasn't been touched. So anyway.... you can see why the EFI is just relying on the temp sensor to "switch" when it reaches operating temp. Above that operating temp , it varies to much. Unlike a temp sensor in a water cooled car or bike, where the temp stays pretty constant.
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I weigh around 165-170 pounds......... ???
What are you thinking exactly? :)
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Ok, a little up date on the most recent mods to the bike over the winter..... Finally got some time to get it on a Dyno, and get a tune on her and see what she can do. Besides the AVL piston, lightened rockers and etc. We put in some new valve springs, beehive's... retainers and keepers. To further lighten the valve train AND to keep it under control for the added 1000 RPM's we can now rev it to, with the rev extend feature on the PC-V. The result's are 33.25 HP and 34.75 ft lbs of torque at the wheel. Or about another 10 % increase over the previous set up. I'm guessing ?.... We are in the neighborhood of 40 HP give or take, at the crank .
Also, we are trying a intake mod that mounts in the intake manifold which is showing promise and gains . It's called the "FIN" . Developed and tested by local tuner's Pete Burger and Shawn Eisenmenger on other applications . It basically helps with the flow in the manifold by reducing the air drag on the walls of the manifold. We are playing with that now and see what we can do.
Dyno sheet on a file below.....
Fantastic.....
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That will be the first EFI UCE doing the TON !
CONGRATULATIONS GHG !!!
He beat me to it....
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I weigh around 165-170 pounds......... ???
What are you thinking exactly? :)
Well.... I'm thinkin' my current rider, may be slowin' me down a bit ? The boy can ride . but he needs to lay of the Guinness !! ::) ;D
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Fantastic.....
He beat me to it....
Thanks Roland ;) A few years of hard work, sticking to it, passion, testing and tuning . I love doing it. Just like I'm sure you do as well.
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That guy is tubby, and bag pipes are not aerodynamic. It's not mentioned much but Rollie Free had to set his aside on that historic day.
Scott
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That guy is tubby, and bag pipes are not aerodynamic. It's not mentioned much but Rollie Free had to set his aside on that historic day.
Scott
Oh man.... Too funny. :'( :'( :) :) Wippin' my eye's......
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Well.... I'm thinkin' my current rider, may be slowin' me down a bit ? The boy can ride . but he needs to lay of the Guinness !! ::) ;D
(chest thump) respect !
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Well.... I'm thinkin' my current rider, may be slowin' me down a bit ? The boy can ride . but he needs to lay of the Guinness !! ::) ;D
Hahahaha! ;D Well, that is definitely one advantage that I've always had on bikes. With my metabolism I've always been on the skinny side, my wife calls me manorexic. LOL As far as that Guinness, perhaps a switch to scotch is to be had. It's much more effiecnt when it comes to the buzz to calories ratio. ;)
Scottie J
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Hahahaha! ;D Well, that is definitely one advantage that I've always had on bikes. With my metabolism I've always been on the skinny side, my wife calls me manorexic. LOL As far as that Guinness, perhaps a switch to scotch is to be had. It's much more effiecnt when it comes to the buzz to calories ratio. ;)
Scottie J
He...he..he. Yes , true Scottie. But lets not encourage him now. Ummmmm....... manorexic ? stature of a Jockey? Upper body strength of a Gorilla ? It may go way north of the ton !? LOL ! ;)
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GHG.....I think it's about time we swapped our bikes, after all mine is Da Bomb, it's almost stock, may not be as fast as yours...but since mine is slower it's safer.....after all being good forum members, we ought to look out for the safety of our brethren... ;D
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Don't you have an abandoned airstrip out your way that you can play on? I might need to make a trip to Jersey. ;D
Scottie J
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Such a great Bullet. One of the best, I'm sure of it. Performance numbers are pretty exciting. Great work.
I'm light. Get it out to SoCal and I'll gladly ride it for yah! 8)
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GHG.....I think it's about time we swapped our bikes, after all mine is Da Bomb, it's almost stock, may not be as fast as yours...but since mine is slower it's safer.....after all being good forum members, we ought to look out for the safety of our brethren... ;D
BWAHAHAHAHA !! Yeah...Yeah....Yeah.... Brother. Your looking out for my safety are ya ? ::) YOU just wanna go out and and challenge some Sportsters and 650 Bonnies ! ;D ;)
Don't you have an abandoned airstrip out your way that you can play on? I might need to make a trip to Jersey. ;D
Scottie J
Oh ! .... I can find me a road Scottie. Come on out, there is still some country out west of here. ;) And we'll do up that Blackhawk too!!.... Be a Sweet Cafe bike for sure. I actually had to spend a little time... Ah... restricting it some ::) For the street that is ! It certainly is LOUD with that 1 7/8 header dumping that last hot pulse into the wide open Meggie. A little to loud for the very decent gentleman in the next town over, who politely asked me to park that bike, in that bank parking lot. And walk home. And while your at it..... put on a proper helmet. very decent I would say ! And considering I have to ride through that town to get to work....
I also just got back from weighing the bike. I stopped by a scrap yard and put it on there truck scale and it weighed in at 380 pounds in it's full street configuration.... I could go lighter. ;)
Such a great Bullet. One of the best, I'm sure of it. Performance numbers are pretty exciting. Great work.
I'm light. Get it out to SoCal and I'll gladly ride it for yah! 8)
Thanks again Boggy ;) Ohooooo.... Southern California ! I might just take you up on that ! Wait..... I thought you were a Boston Boy ?
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I'll always bleed Sox red and piss Bruins gold, but life is too short and I desperately needed a change of scenery. 8 months so far in sunny, snow free SoCal. Best months in a long while.
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I'll always bleed Sox red and piss Bruins gold, but life is too short and I desperately needed a change of scenery. 8 months so far in sunny, snow free SoCal. Best months in a long while.
NICE ! Good for you Boggy, So you missed the polar voltexes and Nor'easters ?.... What a shame ::)
Bike TEMPERARILY restricted ::) :(......................
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Bike TEMPERARILY restricted ::) :(......................
Baffles schmaffles. How are you supposed to know when to shift if you can't hear it piercing your eardrums?! ;D
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Baffles schmaffles. How are you supposed to know when to shift if you can't hear it piercing your eardrums?! ;D
RIGHT Scottie !? ...... Back pressure schmack pressure ! A pipe needs to scavenge..... NOT SLOW IT DOWN !! When your eye balls start shakin' .... shift !! LOL !
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Hey Glassshouse, Is that a Ural in the garage? Tell us about it. I'm a big fan, & miss mine.
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Hey Glassshouse, Is that a Ural in the garage? Tell us about it. I'm a big fan, & miss mine.
Glasshouse !? he..he..he. You have a good Eye. But no sir, close it's a Cj750 OHV. And I don't blame ya for missing it. They are a hoot to ride and built like a tank,oval framed, reverse gear, stone simple and reliable as a rigid pipe wrench......
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Hi, fooled me I couldn't see enough of it. It is a beauty! Seems I remember hearing about it before, you inherited it from your brother.
Incidentally, those Chinese CJ HEADLIGHT RIMS can be made to work on a Royal Enfield using a 7" reflector. I have one on my G5 deluxe, & used one on my last Ural. They are on Ebay sometimes.
Thanks for sharing!
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Hi, fooled me I couldn't see enough of it. It is a beauty! Seems I remember hearing about it before, you inherited it from your brother.
Incidentally, those Chinese CJ HEADLIGHT RIMS can be made to work on a Royal Enfield using a 7" reflector. I have one on my G5 deluxe, & used one on my last Ural. They are on Ebay sometimes.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks .... and ummmmmmm ? That is a good idea . Instead of the "eyebrows" that slide under the outer ring. I like it ! I may have to try swapping them , and see how it looks on the Enfield.
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Thanks .... and ummmmmmm ? That is a good idea . Instead of the "eyebrows" that slide under the outer ring. I like it ! I may have to try swapping them , and see how it looks on the Enfield.
Hi, It looks like this...BELOW Like a genuine period piece.
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That DOES look nice ! :P
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Here we go again ! :o Domed forged 500cc AVL/UCE piston. Lets see ? I think this go around... first. We will use all the previous engine mods, but replace the forged AVL piston with this one. And use a stock head....mildly worked. And see how it does ?
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Oooooo, another cool GHG and scooterbob fun project.....
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Here we go again ! :o Domed forged 500cc AVL/UCE piston. Lets see ? I think this go around... first. We will use all the previous engine mods, but replace the forged AVL piston with this one. And use a stock head....mildly worked. And see how it does ?
Ok. Now you know some of us would like more information than this..... Like when said piston plans on making it's new home, and who it's mom and dad are? ;D ;)
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Ok. Now you know some of us would like more information than this..... Like when said piston plans on making it's new home, and who it's mom and dad are? ;D ;)
You know that Gorilla and ScooterBob wouldn't put up a CNC generated pic of something they were thinking about maybe wanting to try and see if they could make ;) ...... That's the real deal right there - and IF it survives some severe Celtic abuse, then a feller may keep one of the little slugs in his very own cylinder ;D ........
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Ok. Now you know some of us would like more information than this..... Like when said piston plans on making it's new home, and who it's mom and dad are? ;D ;)
Soon Scottie ! Just got the pistons the other day. A few are on there way out to the Tundra, so the Earl of swirl can scrutinize and checkerize... ;D A little fitting in the jug, and a little cleaning up the head. Not to long.
You know that Gorilla and ScooterBob wouldn't put up a CNC generated pic of something they were thinking about maybe wanting to try and see if they could make ;) ...... That's the real deal right there - and IF it survives some severe Celtic abuse, then a feller may keep one of the little slugs in his very own cylinder ;D ........
Tune and flog the piss out of it ! ::)..... Gitter' Dunn as usuall ;)
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Obviously, looking at these three pistons.... stocked dish, flat top forged AVL and the new forged domed deal. Higher compression is the goal. And to work with the stock chamber. A little more simple and practical approach this time. Without the extensive welding up , resizing and reshaping of the chamber. Sort of , address the bottom of the chamber and leave the top alone.
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Great looking bike!! I would hope to own something similar myself in the future.
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Obviously, looking at these three pistons.... stocked dish, flat top forged AVL and the new forged domed deal. Higher compression is the goal.
So, GHG, can I just clarify something? Can I fit the standard AVL piston straight into my UCE, and thus get a higher compression ratio without having to alter anything else? And if so, where would I get the forged version of the AVL piston?
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So, GHG, can I just clarify something? Can I fit the standard AVL piston straight into my UCE, and thus get a higher compression ratio without having to alter anything else? And if so, where would I get the forged version of the AVL piston?
Worked for me, but, I just used an OEM cast AVL piston.
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So, GHG, can I just clarify something? Can I fit the standard AVL piston straight into my UCE, and thus get a higher compression ratio without having to alter anything else? And if so, where would I get the forged version of the AVL piston?
Yes you can Steve. In the neighborhood of half a point with the same deck height. A stock bike roughly has a compression ratio of 7.3-1 If one goes in there and measures things. With the AVL installed it would be around 7.8- 1. Give or take a bit of course with any manufacturing irregularities in the top end.
And yes, like Gremlin says you can use a stock cast AVL piston Steve. He and many others have. We just used a forged version because it is lighter and stronger and better for a little higher performance... higher compression with the chamber we have been using. And I believe another run of them would have to be made....... they are not available as far as I know.
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Yes you can Steve. In the neighborhood of half a point with the same deck height.
That's great to know - many thanks, GHG and Gremlin. I feel the existing compression ratio is unnecessarily low here in the UK, where the standard fuel in 95 RON.
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Nice!
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This time around? Did something bad happen to the motor? Or can you just not leave well enough alone? ;)
Hope all is well Dan,
Scott
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This time around? Did something bad happen to the motor? Or can you just not leave well enough alone? ;)
Hope all is well Dan,
Scott
Hahahaha ! Thank you Scott. And yes , I can assure you all is well..... :o I know... " Hey, Danny has his bike apart again !" LOL. The motor IS beautiful. But I could not stand the thought of JUST riding it for another season ?..... And you kidding ?! It's just fun to develop this stuff. And the idea actually came from a friend of ours from your neck of the woods... He wanted what we have done. However, as I said earlier the head work is fairly extensive, and as you can imagine a bit costly considering the over all cost of these bikes. It's a fair thing to say ? So.....Lets see what we can do that may be the next best thing ? And work well with the other mods ? AND .... NO ONE is going to tune and test on it but me before it goes in !? As you know, ALL of this stuff has has been tested on the road and on the dyno , in my bike , by us. Getting your hands dirty, shelling out the money for a bike and getting into it . Not theory or conjecture. And this will be no different. And that's all there is too it. ;)
Nice!
Great looking bike!! I would hope to own something similar myself in the future.
Thank you guy's, appreciate that ! ;)
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That's great to know - many thanks, GHG and Gremlin. I feel the existing compression ratio is unnecessarily low here in the UK, where the standard fuel in 95 RON.
I had nothing to do with this most-excellent build. SB & GHG are the progenitors. I got lucky after this bike was featured in the magazine, and, GHG revealed the AVL piston trick.
Worked for me, going on 2 years now.
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Tune and flog the piss out of it ! ::)..... Gitter' Dunn as usuall ;)
[/quote]
I gotta say - if a part will survive the eternal dyno flogging and riding the mean streets of Gorilla Land - no mortal man can break it. Gashouse Gorilla is almost as hard on sh!t as I am ..... :o
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Obviously, looking at these three pistons.... stocked dish, flat top forged AVL and the new forged domed deal. Higher compression is the goal. And to work with the stock chamber. A little more simple and practical approach this time. Without the extensive welding up , resizing and reshaping of the chamber. Sort of , address the bottom of the chamber and leave the top alone.
0 - 60 in 5 seconds :), doing circles around Continental GT !
When are you taking your baby to Bonneville Salts ?
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Tune and flog the piss out of it ! ::)..... Gitter' Dunn as usuall ;)
I gotta say - if a part will survive the eternal dyno flogging and riding the mean streets of Gorilla Land - no mortal man can break it. Gashouse Gorilla is almost as hard on sh!t as I am ..... :o
Yup... Exactly Cuz ;) However, kinda sorta technically, you know.... It's Jungland. Very close to that giant Exxon sign. :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1JgDhok1Fc
0 - 60 in 5 seconds :), doing circles around Continental GT !
When are you taking your baby to Bonneville Salts ?
Pffff ::)..... Don't distract me Brother ! ;) I'm trying to get this done ..... I could put that Scooterbob head back up on there ? Boy ! :-X
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Pistons shipped out to the ScooterBob last Friday. Checked. bored , honed squared up and back by this morning/Friday.... These are a + .010 piston BTW. Busy day....
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Bore.....
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Stock valves polished .....
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And ground....
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Casting and maching imperfections removed from chamber and ports. Chamber and exhaust port polished.....
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No leaks.... WithOUT the springs installed ;) ;D
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Piston and cylinder back on the bike... a little piston to valve checking.
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All looks good. New gasket, head back on and torqued down. She'll be running soon ! 8) Good nignt......
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And all those silly Harley riders keep polishing the parts on the outside. :)
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Cool stuff! 8)
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absolutely stellar work !!! I'm guessing the primary chain will shred.
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absolutely stellar work !!! I'm guessing the primary chain will shred.
Hahahahaha! You ain't kiddin'. I'll see if I can rip the spokes out of the back wheel tomorrow .
And all those silly Harley riders keep polishing the parts on the outside. :)
.
Yeah right !? It's just gonna get all dirty anyway ? Oh ! ... I got ya. Harley. D'oh !
Cool stuff! 8)
;)
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Back to life yesterday, and all is well. Little minor idle adjustment ? I have to say, a bit pleasantly surprised.... she feels like it has a bit more torque across the range. a bit more pull and shove. It's real real nice. A bit higher cylinder pressure then we have been running, stock deck height. No rattles no, no knocks, no pings, no marbles in a tin can... no drama. Even had about a 70-30 mix of 93 octane and 87 lawn mower piss in the tank. :o ;D Going to dump and change the oil today, and beat on it a bit during the week. So far so good.....
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Great to see your new improvement on the engine :) !
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superb !
Any extra of those pistons available for sale ?
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superb !
Any extra of those pistons available for sale ?
You gotta stop jumping ahead of the line gremlin...you already have your AVL piston in ;) how much faster do you want to go ;D
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You gotta stop jumping ahead of the line gremlin...you already have your AVL piston in ;) how much faster do you want to go ;D
Faster, BAH-HUMBUG, I'm looking for that increased torque and higher combustion efficiency.... 8)
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Great to see your new improvement on the engine :) !
Thanks Singh !
You gotta stop jumping ahead of the line gremlin...you already have your AVL piston in ;) how much faster do you want to go ;D
Safe and secured. ;)
superb !
Any extra of those pistons available for sale ?
Faster, BAH-HUMBUG, I'm looking for that increased torque and higher combustion efficiency.... 8)
Unfortunately Gremlin, this first go 'round of pistons are spoken for. However..... I know a guy who lives out on the permafrost of the Tundra who MIGHT could possibly have one ? Wears glasses this guy, very cerebral at times yet down to earth. Good with motorcycles and Hot rods and such . And if you could catch him.... or pry it out of his hands before he puts it in an AVL .... Maybe ? Just sayin' !
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Unfortunately Gremlin, this first go 'round of pistons are spoken for. However..... I know a guy who lives out on the permafrost of the Tundra who MIGHT could possibly have one ? Wears glasses this guy, very cerebral at times yet down to earth. Good with motorcycles and Hot rods and such . And if you could catch him.... or pry it out of his hands before he puts it in an AVL .... Maybe ? Just sayin' !
The Tundra is a wonderful place, I think I know of whom you speak. He may actually have the fingers that placed my AVL piston in B5 year before last.
Last time I was down at Marty's shop - he mentioned that B had not been spending as much time as he would like there, so, who knows?
The piston I currently have is performing well (a blustery 36 degree ride into work this morning was an easy 70 mph - indicated) without a PC-V so ..... I can be happy waiting for the next batch - just curious.
p.s. have you had to do any power-commander tuning after the change ?
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Yes I'm sure it was he , who put that slug in yours as well. I can certainly get in touch with him and pass on the info if you like Gremlin. With this first run of pistons .. four in total, minimum order. We just wanted to get a feel for how it is. Then if it's good ? And it sure seems to be so far. We will order another run of them provided there is enough interest.
And yes, I am sure it is fine with the stock ECU. We found the same with a much higher compression increase. And I would imagine your TPS might have been bumped up a wee bit ? The only point in which we needed to use a PC-V, was when we went to Cams and to increase the rev limiter.... A must really. The Cams make too radical of a change. Radically pulling fuel out down low, then radically adding fuel as the revs come up as you could imagine with more lift and duration. But prior to that ? Not an issue with the stock EFI and TPS adjustment. The first time we put a PC-V on before the cams.... It made a 1 HP difference and slightly better throttle responce. The bike had a freer flowing filter and silencer on it at the time , with the much higher compression of the different .... smaller.... chambered head we were using. And have been using up to now. So, prior to the tune on the PC-V we were fine with our AFR's.
Now with the tune on the PC-V ? And remember, the bike is set up the same except for the head and piston. It "feels " fine. Plug looks perfect. I am not concerned, It may need a tweak ? And I intend to get it on a Dyno to take a look at it and see how it does, but I want to break it in first and get a better feel for it on the road first. I have played with the fuel a bit at idle. But I'm back to where I was and it's fine. I started with a colder plug... an 8.... for safety with the higher compression, and I'm moving the heat range hotter. I'm at a 7 now and it is good. But I intend to try a 6 today. This stock chamber, because it is larger then what we have been using seems.... Lazy-er at low speeds as far as the mix. But may flow better at higher speeds. So it seems to react better at idle with a hotter plug.
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.....We just wanted to get a feel for how it is. Then if it's good ? And it sure seems to be so far. We will order another run of them provided there is enough interest........
The line forms here:
1. Gremlin Bulletman
2. Gremlin
3.
4.
5.
6.
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GHG, Just a quick question, as my mind tends to wonder about such things:
Am I correct in assuming that if NO other changes are made to intake/exhaust, that a slight bump in compression would not need additional fueling because the amount of air being sucked in isn't being changed?... but rather, it is being made more efficient with the air volume that IS going in there? (by efficiency I mean a bigger 'bang' with the same amount of fuel) everything I've read or heard is that a slight compression bump (assuming low compression to start with) is a win/win: more power and efficiency
of course there are other factors, but I'm speaking in general terms like on a stock bike
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Am I correct in assuming that if NO other changes are made to intake/exhaust, that a slight bump in compression would not need additional fueling because the amount of air being sucked in isn't being changed?... but rather, it is being made more efficient with the air volume that IS going in there? (by efficiency I mean a bigger 'bang' with the same amount of fuel) everything I've read or heard is that a slight compression bump (assuming low compression to start with) is a win/win: more power and efficiency
I realise the question wasn't addressed to me, so I hope you'll forgive me for joining in.
But, yes, in a word. Increasing the compression ratio increases the thermal efficiency of the engine (for reasons to do with the laws of thermodyamics and lots of maths). In simple terms, this means that you get more energy into the piston and less down the exhaust pipe.
There is no downside per se, except one: the engine becomes less tolerant of low octane fuels. Here in the West we've got consistently good fuel (in terms of octane rating) so the Bullet engine will easily cope with - and benefit from - an increase in CR.
I should add a big caveat: if you are making other substantial changes - such as supercharging, for example - then it's all a lot more complicated and you can't just assume more CR = better. But we're talking about the real world here.
In summary, a bump in CR should result in a wee bit more torque through the range, and/or a small improvement in fuel economy. The downside will be more of a tendency to detonation if the fuel has an excessively low octane rating.
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The line forms here:
1. Gremlin Bulletman
2. Gremlin
3.
4.
5.
6.
Got it ;)
Also, A little time on the highway today.... I little early with the miles on the piston ? But .... ::) It does have a bit better bit better top end. Cruising at 75-80 is effortless. A quick shot to 86, again easy. Until I came to my senses and backed off, and let reason get the better of me. I did also have a potential too hot of a plug in there.. A 6. But it turned out to be fine. I think I will stick to a 7 for more spirited riding and peace of mind :o. My speedo does match GPS btw.
GHG, Just a quick question, as my mind tends to wonder about such things:
Am I correct in assuming that if NO other changes are made to intake/exhaust, that a slight bump in compression would not need additional fueling because the amount of air being sucked in isn't being changed?... but rather, it is being made more efficient with the air volume that IS going in there? (by efficiency I mean a bigger 'bang' with the same amount of fuel) everything I've read or heard is that a slight compression bump (assuming low compression to start with) is a win/win: more power and efficiency
of course there are other factors, but I'm speaking in general terms like on a stock bike
I realise the question wasn't addressed to me, so I hope you'll forgive me for joining in.
But, yes, in a word. Increasing the compression ratio increases the thermal efficiency of the engine (for reasons to do with the laws of thermodyamics and lots of maths). In simple terms, this means that you get more energy into the piston and less down the exhaust pipe.
There is no downside per se, except one: the engine becomes less tolerant of low octane fuels. Here in the West we've got consistently good fuel (in terms of octane rating) so the Bullet engine will easily cope with - and benefit from - an increase in CR.
I should add a big caveat: if you are making other substantial changes - such as supercharging, for example - then it's all a lot more complicated and you can't just assume more CR = better. But we're talking about the real world here.
In summary, a bump in CR should result in a wee bit more torque through the range, and/or a small improvement in fuel economy. The downside will be more of a tendency to detonation if the fuel has an excessively low octane rating.
I couldn't have said it better myself Steve. ;) And I do have a sneaking suspicion that I will find I am a bit over fueled now. Particularly in the low to mid range.
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Thank you Steve. I kinda had a general understanding but that helps me make more sense of it....I know forced induction is a whole other ballgame because more air increases the need for fuel, and I'm a fan of normally aspirated motors myself. I like it simple
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We eagerly await the result of your dyno testing !
Will the system respond to a reduction in spark advance? (due to the quicker burn and optimum angular timing stuff?) If so, how much?
torque on par with a BMW Dakar ?
Magic !
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We eagerly await the result of your dyno testing !
Will the system respond to a reduction in spark advance? (due to the quicker burn and optimum angular timing stuff?) If so, how much?
torque on par with a BMW Dakar ?
Magic !
You know Gremlin ?..... You got me thinkin'. Looking at the specs of that bike? It does bare SOME similarities ? I never rode one. Ours is a bit lighter.... ? Depends on if those numbers are at the crank or not? If so... we were close with Torque with the last configuration. That bike has slightly higher compression, revs a bit higher ? Duel rate springs ? Ummmmmmm..... No STOP ! :o I wanna try it the way it is . ;)
And yes , I can adjust ignition timing to were ever I want. As you know , what the stock timing curve looks like, is a bit of a mystery on these bikes. And it's blind adjustment the way it stands. And I do believe is can and should be optimized. What is going on in that head of yours ?
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......... What is going on in that head of yours ?
Insanity, mostly. ;)
I was just wondering if a higher compression engine would "need" less spark advance - all other things being equal.
In other words, once its on the dyno, it would be interesting to see if the torque curve responds positively to a slight decrease in advance.
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It's a very good point actually......And with a rich AFR? Faster burn speed..... Ummmmmm? I was in the neighborhood of 13.2 last time..... Ummmmmmm ?! Very good point ! The bike does run flat on a zero ignition map, no changes over stock. But there is a bit more timing on the caned map.... I could play with them on the road first. Might be fun.......
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It is possible that it might be better with less spark advance. But it is not something that is guaranteed. Theoretically, with all other things being equal, there is a reasonable expectation that it might, but it might be so little as to not be noticed. It can lose power from retarding the spark, if it doesn't need it.
It really should be tried out on the dyno, to see where it wants the advance to be.
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This is an interesting, and easily digestible webpage --> http://www.daytona-sensors.com/tech_tuning.html
I'm withdrawing my previous suggestion :o
This is a slower read for us slower readers ..... http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~efroeh/papers/RDH_Engine_Performance.pdf
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This is an interesting, and easily digestible webpage --> http://www.daytona-sensors.com/tech_tuning.html
I'm withdrawing my previous suggestion :o
This is a slower read for us slower readers ..... http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~efroeh/papers/RDH_Engine_Performance.pdf
Good stuff ! ;) A bit of after diner reading for sure.
Another decent one....
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/myths.php
With a little less Timing, the bike is still a Torque monster on the hills and in 5th on the highway from, 3000 rpm's to 5000 and beyond it seems. Plug appears a bit cleaner.... timing marks on the ground strap look "safe". Maybe a bit close to the outer ring at full advance......
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Tune and flog the piss out of it ! ::)..... Gitter' Dunn as usuall ;)
I gotta say - if a part will survive the eternal dyno flogging and riding the mean streets of Gorilla Land - no mortal man can break it. Gashouse Gorilla is almost as hard on sh!t as I am ..... :o
And it has ! You know, like we do. ;D ;)
A little update after a summer full of Street flogging , and some Dyno flogging and tuning earlier today. On the same Dyno we have been using from the start. ... Thanks again Shawn, around the corner at JDS Cycle !
The motor has performed great over the summer without any issues...... except for a roll over sensor acting up for a little bit that is ! >:( So after a season of fun on the bike, I put it on the Dyno to see what it is doing and for a tune on the map... bit of a tweak really as we were close with the fueling. I am very pleased and happy with the results. We did a little better then the previous set up. The Domed piston we came up with, combined with the stock chamber does better in the mid range and at peak..... really across the whole range. The bikes revs freely, smoothly and routinely up to 64-6500 rpms. Although not quite yet needed .....it's good to see the stock bottom end taking the abuse so well. BTW, which was ONE of the reasons why we decided early on, to stick with the stock 500 cc piston size.
The Dyno results are 34.83 HP, and 35.47 ft lbs of torque at the wheel... With as nice fat 3-4 gain in the mid-range. I thought I was feeling that all summer ? And sure enough I did...
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What does the bike weigh now? Any idea?
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About 375-380 lbs. on the local scrape yard scale Scott. ... with me on it , quite a bit more. LOL !
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Pretty good, you stripped about 100 pounds.
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So happy to see a positive thread back up! Great results GHG. I am envious ;)
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The line forms here:
1. Gremlin Bulletman
2. Gremlin
3. Ice
4.
5.
6.
;D
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VERY good results!
:)
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Cool!
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Pretty good, you stripped about 100 pounds.
Pretty cool. I never weighed it when stock..... around 480 you think , aye ? Yeah , thinking about what was removed ? I can see it.
So happy to see a positive thread back up! Great results GHG. I am envious ;)
Plus one to that !! ;) And thanks JVS.
;D
Duly noted ..... ;) :)
VERY good results!
:)
Cool!
Thanks you guys , I appreciate that :)
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I remember reading the specs sometime ago before I bought one. I remember it was nearly 500 pounds.
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In summary, a bump in CR should result in a wee bit more torque through the range, and/or a small improvement in fuel economy. The downside will be more of a tendency to detonation if the fuel has an excessively low octane rating.
This takes me back to my 2 stroke days, when it was common practice to 'skim' the cylinder heads of engines to gain a marginal increase in compression. I know I am going to bring the wrath of experienced engineers down on me, but why not just skim a bullet head - ensuring of course that the cylinder head and the piston don't come into close contact .......? I guess the push rods might also need a haircut.
I'll go and sit in the corner with a bucket over my head now.
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I am starting to dislike this thread....far way too positive for this forum!....lol
so lets go back to the norm.
G.H.G. keep eating those donuts and you can forget about that 100 pound loss in bike weight! we want to see you hit the magic 100 mph so no more than 8 per day.
while were at it if these pistons are so good. I am a claim jumper so put me first on the list and I will take 5 for my mazda turbo. with the additional power I might have the ooomph to crack 250kph if I decide to hit the northern territory again! ;)
again a very good effort with the donuts and pretty good run with the bike too....lol
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just in case we get some donut knockers - they have actually been very good to me and I don't like them ;)
(http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac278/wildbill2010/P1080700_zpsc2c9c18d.jpg)
(http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac278/wildbill2010/P1080701_zps93485df4.jpg)
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dammit...now I want donuts
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Bwhahahahahaha ! Your a nut Wildwilliam. And your right to ! Hahahaha !
Ironically, speaking of weight and HP estimations. Singh and i were out for a ride this past labor day. Horsing around, drag racing and stuff. And we were doing some 0-60 runs to see how fast. Based on the weight of my bike AND my weight. I came up with 35 HP using this calculator..... It's fun to play with and turned out to be pretty accurate.
http://www.060calculator.com/
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Bwhahahahahaha ! Your a nut Wildwilliam. And your right to ! Hahahaha !
Ironically, speaking of weight and HP estimations. Singh and i were out for a ride this past labor day. Horsing around, drag racing and stuff. And we were doing some 0-60 runs to see how fast. Based on the weight of my bike AND my weight. I came up with 35 HP using this calculator..... It's fun to play with and turned out to be pretty accurate.
http://www.060calculator.com/
Horsing around !
The ton up café racer decimated my Black Stallion G5 to pieces by a mile in 10 seconds !
Seems like I am in slow motion :D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj1VzM7UFTw
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I could say that bike certainly sounds alright -but I won't! ;D
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Made like a gun. Helicopter on land?!
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I could say that bike certainly sounds alright -but I won't! ;D
Yeah , watch it Bill.... don't get too wild now. That sounded very close to being positive ! LOL ! ;)
Made like a gun. Helicopter on land?!
Ummmmm....? OH ! Built like a Gun (AK-47) sounds like one to, wherever you throw it,always lands on it's feet, it's a bullet, SB get's a micrometer because he is smarter, and GHG get a hammer cause I'm not ! Hahahaha! 11 seconds into the Video.. ;)
Horsing around !
The ton up café racer decimated my Black Stallion G5 to pieces by a mile in 10 seconds !
Seems like I am in slow motion :D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj1VzM7UFTw
Hahahaha ! Awesome Singh !! Great Job , and thanks. Your's was not too shabby either off the line I must say. Well over 40K miles and bone stock... WOW ! That WAS a blast that day for sure , great fun. ;) :)
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GHG Café Racer recorded 106 miles per hour on the Dyno, which is remarkable :).
While I was taking the picture, the speed was changing too fast for the camera, and it had recorded the moment it was at 102 mph.
We have not seen an EFI 500 cc UCE RE doing a ton even on a dyno !
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RPM at 6100! :)
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GHG Café Racer recorded 106 miles per hour on the Dyno, which is remarkable :).
While I was taking the picture, the speed was changing too fast for the camera, and it had recorded the moment it was at 102 mph.
We have not seen an EFI 500 cc UCE RE doing a ton even on a dyno !
Fun night in the Dyno booth Singh for sure. :) Cool stuff , isn't it ?! But I do believe I better lay off the Guinness and fish and chips if I'm ever to see that on the road. ::) ;)
And yes Matt, at the Blackthorne. ;)
RPM at 6100! :)
It looks like that was at 6300 , Air fuel ratio at 12.8. Probably at that point in the picture ?.. It was coming down from 6500 as the throttle was backed off. The top speed and peak Torque and HP would have been right before ... a couple/few seconds maybe ?..... that the throttle was being eased off.
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Horsing around !
The ton up café racer decimated my Black Stallion G5 to pieces by a mile in 10 seconds !
Seems like I am in slow motion :D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj1VzM7UFTw
Downloaded and saved !
;) ;D
The soundtrack.... 8)
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I could be wrong - but it rarely happens ;) but I think GHG has failed to declare where the added HP really came from.......
true the piston did help a bit but unknown to many so I will drop the bombshell now he has been two timing with NGK and testing the new design twin point iridium spark plug.
this plug alone is good for 7 extra bhp at the wheels and hits full power when the second electrodes opens between 5800 to 6500 rpm.
now I don't understand how or why this works as I am not into this mechanical side of the bikes but I can read the spread sheets and it shows the results plain and clear.
now I had plans to put them up but I had a computer freeze and now trying to resolve that problem.
at the moment he is only using a prototype so I've been told the plug will go on sale at all KFC outlets at 9.05am Monday 5th june 2017 at a recommended retail price of $499 plus tax.
orders taken
1. wildbill x 10 - there might be a $$$ here! some say I am an opportunist. anyway I don't give a stuff about politic so I don't care what they say! 10 it is.
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Fun night in the Dyno booth Singh for sure. :) Cool stuff , isn't it ?! But I do believe I better lay off the Guinness and fish and chips if I'm ever to see that on the road. ::) ;)
And yes Matt, at the Blackthorne. ;)
(http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/friday.gif)
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I could be wrong - but it rarely happens ;) but I think GHG has failed to declare where the added HP really came from.......
true the piston did help a bit but unknown to many so I will drop the bombshell now he has been two timing with NGK and testing the new design twin point iridium spark plug.
this plug alone is good for 7 extra bhp at the wheels and hits full power when the second electrodes opens between 5800 to 6500 rpm.
now I don't understand how or why this works as I am not into this mechanical side of the bikes but I can read the spread sheets and it shows the results plain and clear.
now I had plans to put them up but I had a computer freeze and now trying to resolve that problem.
at the moment he is only using a prototype so I've been told the plug will go on sale at all KFC outlets at 9.05am Monday 5th june 2017 at a recommended retail price of $499 plus tax.
orders taken
1. wildbill x 10 - there might be a $$$ here! some say I am an opportunist. anyway I don't give a stuff about politic so I don't care what they say! 10 it is.
Ya know... >:( ... WildWilliam ! .... Feckin' Jaysus ! You gotta go and spill the beans on the top secret Plasmatic, multi ground strapped plug ,don't ya now ?! Get the plug name right, to will ya ? That's it. I can trust you with nothing. AND that will NOT be at KFC ! It will be at Applebee's.... so get on 'em like a spider Monkey. ;D Hahahahahaha !
The soundtrack.... 8)
Nice choice by Singh , aye ? I think ScooterBob and I clobbered him with a TON of different selections. ... and some not so tame. ;) Singh has an excellent ear for music :)
(http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/friday.gif)
So .. who's the guy on the right ? :P ;D
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So .. who's the guy on the right ? :P ;D
Me, as I recall... and I only drank water!
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Building Café Racer Part I - The Body
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Q_YQdXZL0
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Building Café Racer Part I - The Body
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Q_YQdXZL0
Awesome... awesome job Singh ! Love it ! Thanks for that. I know it takes a LOT of effort to pull all of that together and edit it. Very VERY cool of you to do. And NO !! Lets go for Northern Indian and a Guinness !!... ;) That was too funny BTW. :)
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Ya know... >:( ... WildWilliam ! .... Feckin' Jaysus ! You gotta go and spill the beans on the top secret Plasmatic, multi ground strapped plug ,don't ya now ?! Get the plug name right, to will ya ? That's it. I can trust you with nothing. AND that will NOT be at KFC ! It will be at Applebee's.... so get on 'em like a spider Monkey. ;D Hahahahahaha !
Nice choice by Singh , aye ? I think ScooterBob and I clobbered him with a TON of different selections. ... and some not so tame. ;) Singh has an excellent ear for music :)
So .. who's the guy on the right ? :P ;D
Hah !
The REal speed secret that makes it go is the Dublinstal muffler mod accidentally shown in the build video from sec. 21.00 to .23.00 ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Q_YQdXZL0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Q_YQdXZL0)
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Hah !
The REal speed secret that makes it go is the Dublinstal muffler mod accidentally shown in the build video from sec. 21.00 to .23.00 ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Q_YQdXZL0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Q_YQdXZL0)
Damn, you picked up on that aye ? Slipped through editing. Special glass pack. ::)
Alright, you caught me. Not only was that bottle an invaluable tool during the build , with helping me quickly slide it into the end of the header , so I could check for any clearance issues with a silencer and the rear set brake mount and linkage. BUT .... if you go to 2:11 in the Video you will see a bell mouth on my intake to smooth out the in coming air. And if you look at a Jameson's bottle , bellow the neck....That tampered area makes an outstanding mold . ;)
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This bike is awesome, both esthetics and performance. :)
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This bike is awesome, both esthetics and performance. :)
Thank you Otto ! ;)
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A few more of those little horses jammed into the motor today. ;) After an intake mod and a plug heat range change. Every little bit helps. Good for 35.17 hp and 36.55 ft lbs. consistently on the Dyno ....
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something wrong with your printer - the lines are crooked ::) ;D
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Your arse is crooked ! :o ;) Jumpy back wheel on the drum ::) Need to strap that rear down better ! ;D
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GHG,
Absolutely brilliant work and just keeps getting better!!!
GSS
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Thanks GSS ;). Yeah, this stock chamber DOES like those hotter plugs I must say. We were running a BPR5ES. And also using Pete Burger's double "fin" in the intake manifold.
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there you go - I point out a slight printer issue - now verbal abuse..... ::)
now I've got a lot on my mind at the moment so don't put pressure on me! your just power hungry while I am chasing a bit of colour -blue-tan or green
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Hahahahahaha !! That's it, I'm calling it. I say the desert camo deal ! :P
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The engine mods and various configurations of their testing on the dyno and tuning are now on youtube for GHG-SB-Café-Racer aficionado :).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ymf32rFqg&feature=youtu.be
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singhg5
as usual a very well informative video. really excelled yourself this time ;D
ghg
I noted the dyno showed something like 106 mph.......just wonder could you get to 110mph without a rider? or if you had the choice say a neat 100 mph with winona ri/yder. so I guess what I am trying to say and given the choice 10 mph will separate any good rider ;D
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The engine mods and various configurations of their testing on the dyno and tuning are now on youtube for GHG-SB-Café-Racer aficionado :).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ymf32rFqg&feature=youtu.be
Again Singh.... Simply awesome. Four years of Scooterbob and I, building and testing and tuning and having a great time doing it along the way. WITH some very good friends ! A true labor of love. Can't beat it man. Very VERY Cool of you to put it all together Singh ! Thank you my brother ....... Jersey rules , just sayin' ;) 8) :)
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ghg
I noted the dyno showed something like 106 mph.......just wonder could you get to 110mph without a rider? or if you had the choice say a neat 100 mph with winona ri/yder. so I guess what I am trying to say and given the choice 10 mph will separate any good rider ;D
Ummmmmmmmm ? Winona Ryder vs Donuts and Guinness ? Or ALL at once are you suggesting ?! :o Ummmmmmmm ?........ ;) ::)
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Very nice job makes my effort look very amatuer ☺
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Very nice job makes my effort look very amatuer ☺
[/quote
It certainly does not . That bike looks awesome !! 8) YOU were just a bit more practical and not quite as maniacal as we were ! LOL ! Thanks ;)
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one of the coolest things about your bikes is the "CADILAC BULLET TAIL LIGHT", did you guys invent it or did you copy it somewhere ;D
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Well you know Otto .... it IS a BULLET. ;) ;D ;D Well ? And maybe a little inspiration from here ::).....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uerDqAIjins
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Jersey does rule. Where did you get that flat top avl piston? I have a 2007 avl cafe build.
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Yes it does ;) . Where are you at.... North or south ? We'll have to go for a ride sometime. And very cool, do you have any pictures of the bike ?
Both the flat top AVL and the Domed AVL/UCE pistons that I have used are made by JE piston in California. Both are custom made, forged aluminum pistons, unlike the stock cast pistons. The forged JE piston is a much better piston then the stock one IMHO.... Lighter , stronger , better made and etc. You can check with NFG for the AVL piston.... I know they carried it, but not sure if they still are ? I know a buddy of mine who tried to get one from them some time ago, without any luck. But it's worth a try. Otherwise a minimum run of four of them would have to be ordered. With the Domed ones, ScooterBob and I have a few floating around between the two of us.......
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armando_chavez... you didn't say you were looking for an AVL flat-top piston, but I've got one - in the 535 size - which I won't be using. PM me if you're interested...
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....... the Domed ones, ScooterBob and I have a few floating around between the two of us.......
care to sell one ? PM me.
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PM sent Gremlin.
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something went wrong with my bike going around 70mph felt ok then one big pop and it turned off. i have to pull the head to see what happened. so im probably interested in getting a better piston. maybe BW piston mod.
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also im from lacey twp near the shore
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Down by Toms River .... I got ya. I'm a bit further north in Union county. And the bike looks REALLY good ! Yeah.... you have to get that going again. What kind of mods have you done to it so far ?
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Gorgeous bike, really clean.
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It has post 1956 S cams (used from HC) Mikuni TM32. KN Cone filter. Im planning on getting the ACE head, ive been trying for the past two years but college keeps putting huge dents in my wallet. ill probably have it done this summer. i recently was sent a cafe gas tank from india. looks decent have to paint it and what not though. idk what went wrong with the bike. Im living in Wayne at the moment at Willy P University, not too far from you. hopefully i can take the top end apart during thanksgiving break.
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this was my first build and its still not done. i am a 23 year old accounting student. ive been looking for places that can help me out but no luck. theres a couple places in nyc that charge a storage fee for the bike and you can use all their tools and knowledge of people, but getting my bike there is imposible at the moment.
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AND going into the city is an expensive PIA.... I got ya. Two of my boys are around your age and in Collage, so I know where your coming from ;) You did a nice job on that bike. I haven't really followed what you did to the motor, but popping and it died is pretty vague ? Whelp, I'm about a half hour from you... I got a garage ... I got a pickup and trailer... I got tools .... I got some knowledge ::)...... And I don't think I was ever accused of not helping someone out should they ask...... Just sayin'.......
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armando_chavez... if GHG makes you an "offer" like that, you would be a fool to refuse it...
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I got a garage ... I got a pickup and trailer... I got tools .... I got some knowledge ::)...... And I don't think I was ever accused of not helping someone out should they ask...... Just sayin'.......
When you moving to Vermont? ;) Just askin'.......
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AND going into the city is an expensive PIA.... I got ya. Two of my boys are around your age and in Collage, so I know where your coming from ;) You did a nice job on that bike. I haven't really followed what you did to the motor, but popping and it died is pretty vague ? Whelp, I'm about a half hour from you... I got a garage ... I got a pickup and trailer... I got tools .... I got some knowledge ::)...... And I don't think I was ever accused of not helping someone out should they ask...... Just sayin'.......
You are a good and fine person GHG.
Steve
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armando_chavez... if GHG makes you an "offer" like that, you would be a fool to refuse it...
My last name is not Corleone Matt ! D'oh ! Hahahahahha ! ;)
When you moving to Vermont? ;) Just askin'.......
Ummmmm ?...... Pulling Northern Pike out on every other cast, from the upper reaches of Lake Champlain ? Cross country skying around mount Snow, with a flask of brandy to keep you warm ? Great pancakes, with that powdered sugar on top..... best maple syrup on the globe ? Yeah, I could get use to it ! ;)
You are a good and fine person GHG.
Steve
Oh come on, I think any of youse' would offer the same. ;) :)
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He is a good fine person, that's for sure. But I also get the sense he may be a bit bored and looking for projects. I've had more than a few friend's bikes in my garage to help them out too. Great way to spend a weekend when you've got nothing to do.
Scott
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GHG, in the long run I want my CGT to be "British Racing Green". The green you used on your bike looks like the perfect match, may I ask what paint code that is?
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He is a good fine person, that's for sure. But I also get the sense he may be a bit bored and looking for projects. I've had more than a few friend's bikes in my garage to help them out too. Great way to spend a weekend when you've got nothing to do.
Scott
Hahahaha ! You know me well Scotty. ;) I AM bored !! And would love nothing more , then to build another Enfield Hot Rod. I just finished a .... dare i say it ? Chopper, with blue metal flake paint no less !? :o :-[ Which was a struggle to get through ! Inspiration was lacking a bit. :-\ And now I am stuck with a scooter , that was in a saltwater flood on Long Beach Island ! >:( Where is the dumpster ?!
GHG, in the long run I want my CGT to be "British Racing Green". The green you used on your bike looks like the perfect match, may I ask what paint code that is?
Sure Otto , the "IRISH racing Green !" ;)..... Is none metallic Dupont Chroma base... 1967 Jaguar- code 8461. The cream or off white, is off of a 87' ford mustang I believe.... code 9A. The silver on the frame is just an Aluminum tint base. Both also Dupont Chroma. Then I hit it all with a Dupont chroma gloss clear.
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Ummmmm ?...... Pulling Northern Pike out on every other cast, from the upper reaches of Lake Champlain ? Cross country skying around mount Snow, with a flask of brandy to keep you warm ? Great pancakes, with that powdered sugar on top..... best maple syrup on the globe ? Yeah, I could get use to it ! ;)
Let me know when you get here............. :)
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Sure Otto , the "IRISH racing Green !" ;)..... Is none metallic Dupont Chroma base... 1967 Jaguar- code 8461. The cream or off white, is off of a 87' ford mustang I believe.... code 9A. The silver on the frame is just an Aluminum tint base. Both also Dupont Chroma. Then I hit it all with a Dupont chroma gloss clear.
Thanks GHG, love the Irish Racing Green.
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The line forms here:
1. ME ! :o ;D
2. Gremlin Bulletman
3. Gremlin
4.Ice
5.
6.
7.
8.
;D ;)
OK guys, the first go round of four Domed pistons are gone. I will be ordering another set of a minimum of four shortly .... One of which I believe is already spoken for. If you are interested shoot me a PM.
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A few more of those little horses jammed into the motor today. ;) After an intake mod and a plug heat range change. Every little bit helps. Good for 35.17 hp and 36.55 ft lbs. consistently on the Dyno ....
Because it's winter , and I'm a little bored ::) See if we can stuff a couple more of those little horses in there ... Maybe ? I have been thinking about the placement of the Injector, in particular it's distance from the Intake valve. I "THINK" it is rather close to the intake valve... at least for performance. And I think from what we have seen here, that fuel puddles a little too much in the intake port. Not so much on mine, but the stock bikes seem to do it. I also think that a little more distance from the back of the valve will give the fuel spray from the injector a little more time spent in the intake port to atomize. Hopefully.... gaining a little more efficiency from it, and in turn a wee bit more power. I know from tuning on the bike, with the intake modification in the manifold placed behind the injector helps. It atomizes the fuel better and is good for 1-4 hp, depending on the configuration. Can't do much with the with the stock intake manifold, the injector location and it's angle ? Also... I know the stock insulator between the intake port and manifold is crap. At least for my needs. It deteriorates and gets blown apart on the inside, around the intake port.
So , with that in mind I figured I would play around and see if I could kill two birds with one stone..... Sorry Wildbill. ::) From some scrap Phenolic material, a new insulator was made at a little over double the width of the stock insulator. Moving the injector back a wee bit, and hopefully the material will prove better then the stock insulator. Witchcraft ? .... Maybe ;) ;D But what the hell, lets see ? I'm bored ! LOL !......
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(http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/lurker.gif)
D'oh ! Sorry Matt, It's Friday and I had to run out for Pizza .... Alright, and some Chianti. Hey, it IS Lent ? ::) There should be pictures....
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From some scrap Phenolic material, a new insulator was made at a little over double the width of the stock insulator.
Bored?!? Heh, right...
Did you have to cut that rounded "slot" out of one side like the OEM version has?
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A couple more perhaps.....
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A couple more perhaps.....
Ok - I'll shut up and let you finish... ;)
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Bored?!? Heh, right...
Did you have to cut that rounded "slot" out of one side like the OEM version has?
Ah.. yeah. Round file ;)
Well, it is at least doing "SOMETHING ". I believe it has a least leaned things out at idle. My idle has picked up a bit.... a bit surgy. Good sign I believe. MAYBE better atomization and a more dense charge ? I can richen THAT up a bit.....
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In theory, the spacer should increase midrange top end, but might flatten out around idle. What's the weather been like there?
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In theory, the spacer should increase midrange top end, but might flatten out around idle. What's the weather been like there?
Cold brother, too cold to tell or tune right now. However , I have thought about that.... And I am also addressing the other end of things with the exhaust.....
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Have you considered installing a CGT throttle body? Or is that not a financially viable route?
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Have you considered installing a CGT throttle body? Or is that not a financially viable route?
Ummmmm .. .. You mean , JUST buy one ? What fun would that be ?! Hehehehe ;) Yeah, we have thought of that before the GT came out. I'm thinking mine is a wee bit larger now then a GT's. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....... whirrrrrlll..... Brrrrrrrrrrrr. ;D ;)
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Danny,
I think your idea is really not bad...many race engines had the injectors before the butterflies with good results - as you mentioned, more time for fuel mixing and atomization !
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Danny,
I think your idea is really not bad...many race engines had the injectors before the butterflies with good results - as you mentioned, more time for fuel mixing and atomization !
Thanks Hardy, But as you can imagine this is a minor step along along those idea's. But it might help a bit. Those race engines REV TO THE MOON.... Hahaha ! Yeah, before the butterfly or even double injected..... one before the butterfly for high rpm's, say over 6 or 8 grand ? Then one closer too the valve for slower engine speeds. I was looking at a the intake of some Suzuki super bike intake with that particular configuration...... Beautiful ports and intake, strait shots with the injectors and such. First injector off of the valve is spaced similar to our's for better low speed behavior I figure. But, We are only doing like 6 grand rpm's. This is just a little movement back and away from the valve. Help a little as the revs come up, maybe. Simple thing to try I figure ?
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armando_chavez... if GHG makes you an "offer" like that, you would be a fool to refuse it...
Agree.
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I wonder if Ace's GT head could have an injecter mounted in one of the plug holes for direct injection.....
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The Motus bike was going to have direct injection, but they went with fuel injection instead.
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GDI usually has something like 2000-3000 PSI. That'd be a big pump you'd need to find space for.
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Ummmmmm ? You know... THAT would be interesting. I thought about that a little bit as well, with the blank spot for the second plug ? But... Keep it simple , use most of what we already have, or what is readily available and maximize. ... Keep it simple approach. But you got me thinking ! :o
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GDI usually has something like 2000-3000 PSI. That'd be a big pump you'd need to find space for.
In fact......no way for a conversion as pump, injector and engine management needs to be completely different - regarding pressure: Germann WW2-aircrafts (ALL GDI to avoid carb icing) used Bosch high pressure Diesel injectons in the 150-180 bar range.
We really don't need it.....
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Now you've done it! You said it was both unnecessary and impossible. I give it 6 months until Girilla has it installed ;)
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In fact......no way for a conversion as pump, injector and engine management needs to be completely different - regarding pressure: Germann WW2-aircrafts (ALL GDI to avoid carb icing) used Bosch high pressure Diesel injectons in the 150-180 bar range.
We really don't need it.....
Now you've done it! You said it was both unnecessary and impossible. I give it 6 months until Girilla has it installed ;)
You know Scotty..... A gentleman, some years ago challenged me once. To build a C-5 Cafe racer. ::)
Hardy, tell me more about these Bosch high pressure diesel injectors and Focke Wulf 190's and such ?! Hahahaha ! Just kiddin'....
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You know, it would be quite easy to install a spark plug anti-fouler in that second hole and modify it to accept an injector. Just saying.
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Yup. I'm seein' it Scottie ......
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You know Scotty..... A gentleman, some years ago challenged me once. To build a C-5 Cafe racer. ::)
Hardy, tell me more about these Bosch high pressure diesel injectors and Focke Wulf 190's and such ?! Hahahaha ! Just kiddin'....
Danny,
we had a Focke Wulf 190 engine and a Rolly Royce Merlin at the university as a show model...guys I tell you, a HUGE 12 cylinder Bosch pump at the FW190 engine and the Merlin is also really nice stuff with the bevel gear driven cams 8) and YES:
feasible is more or less everything, but it should make sense, isnt't it ;D
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i've still not figured out what it is that makes sence... :o ;D
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Danny,
we had a Focke Wulf 190 engine and a Rolly Royce Merlin at the university as a show model...guys I tell you, a HUGE 12 cylinder Bosch pump at the FW190 engine and the Merlin is also really nice stuff with the bevel gear driven cams 8) and YES:
feasible is more or less everything, but it should make sense, isnt't it ;D
I'm jealous Hardy ! Alright... Alright. Maybe next next winter when I'm bored. ::)
i've still not figured out what it is that makes sence... :o ;D
Not always a bad thing !
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Ummmmm .. .. You mean , JUST buy one ? What fun would that be ?! Hehehehe ;) Yeah, we have thought of that before the GT came out. I'm thinking mine is a wee bit larger now then a GT's. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....... whirrrrrlll..... Brrrrrrrrrrrr. ;D ;)
So how big is the throttle body now & how far do you think you can bore them successfully?
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Standard for GT is 34 mm throttle / butterfly !
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This is interesting subject, Matt Capri replaced the throttle body with this one on the GT (pic). I wonder why he did not rebore the existing one.
Someone can identify what throttle body he used?
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So how big is the throttle body now & how far do you think you can bore them successfully?
I'm not sure ? I'm using the stock throttle body ... stock throttle plate. Ported open on the intake and outlet sides and around the throttle plate.
This is interesting subject, Matt Capri replaced the throttle body with this one on the GT (pic). I wonder why he did not rebore the existing one.
Someone can identify what throttle body he used?
I'm thinking Matt Capri figured he needed all the air he could get in that motor at that altitude. Gotta be a horrible place to run a bike.... hot , thin air and etc..
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GHG, do you think it is feasible to re-bore the throttle body to 36mm and install a bigger plate?
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Without it in front of me ? On the 500 TB... no. On your's ? Maybe, but you would have to take a look at it. But I really don't "think" you need to go that big. For the street anyway. Unless your spending ALL your time at high rev's. Just my guesstimate....
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I am just talking future potentials... ;D
So am I correct in assuming that you reached the 35rwhp with the stock throttle body and 32mm throttle plate?
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Yes oTTo, you would be assuming correctly. ;) Stock throttle plate.
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Yes oTTo, you would be assuming correctly. ;) Stock throttle plate.
OK, thanks GHG :) ... will you post pic's of what you did to the rest of the throttle body? ... I kind of have an idea, but... ;) you know... ;D ...i am a curious person.
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OK, thanks GHG :) ... will you post pic's of what you did to the rest of the throttle body? ... I kind of have an idea, but... ;) you know... ;D ...i am a curious person.
Oh Gawd.... NOW you ask . I just put it back together the other day with the whole spacer thing going ! ? :o Hehehehe ;) ... I'll see what I can find. You know... you should just bring that bike over, and in no time you and me could have it DUNN and tuned around corner. And I'd bet you would see higher numbers then what you are shooting for. Then... We could drink some Weisse Beer and the wife could make some Sauerbraten ? It's REAL good I tell ya..... Just don't tell her I said so ;)
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Weissbier & Sauerbraten :P ... If your wife makes good Sauerbraten you must have chosen really wisely. ;)
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Not QUITE as good as her Rouladen.... no pickles, I hate that. Bacon, scallion and etc.... Good stuff. And yes I think I did well, thanks ;) Her on the other hand ?! LOL !
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I think I did fairly well too. I invited myself on a diner which she would cook the first day we met. The food was good so we got married. ;D ...that was 14 years ago. ;D feels like yesterday really....damn time flying. ;)
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I think I did fairly well too. I invited myself on a diner which she would cook the first day we met. The food was good so we got married. ;D ...that was 14 years ago. ;D feels like yesterday really....damn time flying. ;)
NICE move on your part... invited yourself to diner aye ? Good one. Better then my move. Lets see ? I wow'ed her way back when, with my mad cool Puch Maxi (with the mini bike seat pipe strapped on the back rack). Then some few days later ? We proceeded to get T-boned at an intersection. Dumb kid at the time I guess, trying to ride "balls out" on a Puch Maxi with two people on it... The brakes are not the best in the world. Burnt her leg on the pipe. I jumped up and bent the forks back into shape, told the poor old inattentive gentleman to not worry about it.... No insurance and no licence on my part, and also her German father :-[ "Come on.... come on... you'll be fine.... Long pants !" Lets see ? That was around 36 years ago.. and married about 27 years now ? I guess she figured she'd stick around and keep an Eye on me . Still has that scare on her leg to ! Hahahhaha ! D'oh !
Anyways, I found some work in progress pics. Just get your die grinder out and get busy Otto . 80 and then 120 grit flap wheel or porting cartridges.... air die grinder with the pressure pumped up a bit to your liking. Nice high rpm finish with the 120 grit. I attacked the area's a bit around the throttle plate... I'm remembering a ledge in there ? As well as open it up overall on both sides. Open it up as much as you dare..... I don't think YOU need much ? But it's your bike and have fun with it I say . Little stuff here and there adds up.....
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....
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Still has that scare on her leg to ! Hahahhaha ! D'oh !
I notice your RE doesn't have a back seat. Guess she's not too eager to ride with you again... ;)
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I notice your RE doesn't have a back seat. Guess she's not too eager to ride with you again... ;)
Oh gawd no Scotty ! Nor our three sons. " It is forbidden! " The glares I get ?.... at the mere suggestion ?! LOL !
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....
Thanks, my confirmation bias got confirmed. ;) Entry radius be gone! ;D
I think for the GT it is not necessary because it has 2mm bigger throttle plate and the entry radius is already very small. It is most likely the same casting on the outside.
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Good... hopefully you have saved yourself some work and time. And maybe even some money on the Bonneville super sucker ? ;) ;D
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Good... hopefully you have saved yourself some work and time. And maybe even some money on the Bonneville super sucker ? ;) ;D
The supersucker might still be required some time in the future ..... ;D ;)
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This is interesting subject, Matt Capri replaced the throttle body with this one on the GT (pic). I wonder why he did not rebore the existing one.
Someone can identify what throttle body he used?
Matt Capri used a completely different fuel injection system and controller.
Very expensive. I think they said it cost as much as the whole bike cost new.
Size of the throttle body can be changed, either by boring and making a new throttle plate, or by installing a new one that is bigger. It is important to know why, when, and how, to use different size throttle bodies or to size any part of the intake system.
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Matt Capri used a completely different fuel injection system and controller.
Very expensive. I think they said it cost as much as the whole bike cost new.
Size of the throttle body can be changed, either by boring and making a new throttle plate, or by installing a new one that is bigger. It is important to know why, when, and how, to use different size throttle bodies or to size any part of the intake system.
That is exactly what I wonder. Why did Matt Capri not just modify the existing throttle body.
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I can't say specifically why he used what he did.
I can speculate that he previously used a certain brand of EFI on his Triumph bikes, and so he wanted to use something that he had experience with, when he worked on the Royal Enfield.
Personally, I think that he went too big in that department, for the rev range necessary to hit the 97mph result they got.
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If that was a 38 mm he used ? Killed it....
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That is exactly what I wonder. Why did Matt Capri not just modify the existing throttle body.
I'm gonna take a stab at what I THINK he did.... just from watching that video.
"The head is maxed out"..... What does that mean ? Did he open up the open up the ports too much and kill the velocity ? Or where they reshaped in anyway ? The stock ports are large to begin with.... probably too large for stock. Also, if he did enlarge the port's... AND if he was using the Hitchcock cams? He wouldn't have had enough lift to support or take advantage of the larger ports. It doesn't at least LOOK like he had more then .400 lift on the cam , just by looking at the piston and valve relief locations. So if the ports were too big.... and then a larger throttle body was installed....
Lower velocity in the port ... not enough let in by valve lift.... Rev limited to 6200- 6500 lets say,because of the stock bottom end , it being a long stroke, Hydraulic lifter's and a large heavy piston.... HEAVY duel rate springs WITH a heavy stock valve train, to get to a high RPM that he couldn't attain.. now even a little harder and slower to get up there ? Then put a larger throttle body on it . Ummmmmmmm ? I'm thinking, it would have been difficult to find the sweet spot on that throttle . Wide open ..... or do I restrict ? Yeah... A weeee bit over-sized on things, if that is what he did . IMHO anyways. I think the high compression might have saved him a bit though...
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It's very hard to conclude anything based on the small info in the video.
Regarding the head being "maxxed out", this may have referred to the much larger intake valve, and whatever porting he did which didn't get shown.From my point of view, that head didn't look "maxxed out, IMO.
He had his own cams made, probably by megacycle, and I don't know the specs. To do the Ton, it would really only need about .400" lift, if the head flowed well for the lift, and had correct flow speed. The Fireball 535 hits the Ton, and it only lifts .350", and uses a 32mm carb.
I read a comment from Kevin that the bike was able to rev to 7000 rpm, or something like that.
Based on what I have seen shown about the engine, I tend to agree that it was set up for too big for the application. I saw that big intake system didn't fit the frame right, and it was installed looking like it was "drooping", so a curved intake tract resulted, because there wasn't room for it.. I also saw that the big valve looked like it was being shrouded, and probably wouldn't flow the full circumference. The whole intake tract looked a bit too big to me.
But as I said, it is hard to conclude much from the info available. There could be some things we aren't aware of. I wasn't there, and so I am hesitant to second-guess the people who made the effort.
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Well, it was in the first place a show to make that advertisement video. ;) probably they didn't have much time to do that job either and than often time is bought with money.
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I'm gonna take a stab at what I THINK he did.... just from watching that video.
"The head is maxed out"..... What does that mean ? Did he open up the open up the ports too much and kill the velocity ? Or where they reshaped in anyway ? The stock ports are large to begin with.... probably too large for stock. Also, if he did enlarge the port's... AND if he was using the Hitchcock cams? He wouldn't have had enough lift to support or take advantage of the larger ports. It doesn't at least LOOK like he had more then .400 lift on the cam , just by looking at the piston and valve relief locations. So if the ports were too big.... and then a larger throttle body was installed....
Lower velocity in the port ... not enough let in by valve lift.... Rev limited to 6200- 6500 lets say,because of the stock bottom end , it being a long stroke, Hydraulic lifter's and a large heavy piston.... HEAVY duel rate springs WITH a heavy stock valve train, to get to a high RPM that he couldn't attain.. now even a little harder and slower to get up there ? Then put a larger throttle body on it . Ummmmmmmm ? I'm thinking, it would have been difficult to find the sweet spot on that throttle . Wide open ..... or do I restrict ? Yeah... A weeee bit over-sized on things, if that is what he did . IMHO anyways. I think the high compression might have saved him a bit though...
Danny...I would agree to your statement - sometimes MUCH might be TOO much !
Neverthelesse, perhaps there will be a chance to have some Weissbier, Sauerbraten or Rouladen together...funny to see how US people with German roots keep with food traditions THUMPS UP !!!
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Danny...I would agree to your statement - sometimes MUCH might be TOO much !
Neverthelesse, perhaps there will be a chance to have some Weissbier, Sauerbraten or Rouladen together...funny to see how US people with German roots keep with food traditions THUMPS UP !!!
Well, that's nothing Hardy. Spring is almost here, the days are getting longer and the sun feels stronger. And... after the MOST important Holiday of the year in March, right around the first day of spring ;) It will be time to spend a few lazy Sunday afternoons down the road at der Deutscher club's beer garden . With the oopah band playing , sporting the Lederhosen. And a WHOLE bunch of beer brands that I can't pronounce ! As well as some of very oddly good Plum wine or Schnapps ?... to go with the excellent food.
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It's very hard to conclude anything based on the small info in the video.
Regarding the head being "maxxed out", this may have referred to the much larger intake valve, and whatever porting he did which didn't get shown.From my point of view, that head didn't look "maxxed out, IMO.
He had his own cams made, probably by megacycle, and I don't know the specs. To do the Ton, it would really only need about .400" lift, if the head flowed well for the lift, and had correct flow speed. The Fireball 535 hits the Ton, and it only lifts .350", and uses a 32mm carb.
I read a comment from Kevin that the bike was able to rev to 7000 rpm, or something like that.
Based on what I have seen shown about the engine, I tend to agree that it was set up for too big for the application. I saw that big intake system didn't fit the frame right, and it was installed looking like it was "drooping", so a curved intake tract resulted, because there wasn't room for it.. I also saw that the big valve looked like it was being shrouded, and probably wouldn't flow the full circumference. The whole intake tract looked a bit too big to me.
But as I said, it is hard to conclude much from the info available. There could be some things we aren't aware of. I wasn't there, and so I am hesitant to second-guess the people who made the effort.
Oh yes, quite right of course... and not enough to go by . :) And if I MAY venture a guess.. strictly based on what we have seen now ? That bike was turning out about in the high 20's to low 30's at the wheel. The fairing was good for about five miles an hour perhaps ? But... I could be wrong though.
Well, it was in the first place a show to make that advertisement video. ;) probably they didn't have much time to do that job either and than often time is bought with money.
Yes, I agree. The whole thing seemed a bit "rushed". What with the Tuning at the site and all...
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It will be time to spend a few lazy Sunday afternoons down the road at der Deutscher club's beer garden . With the oopah band playing , sporting the Lederhosen.
You wear lederhosen to der Deutscher club's beer garden? Now there's an image I can't unsee...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bSByekDDFgtE1rNpniQoi8eb1HJAaqT27FlSwGxxiksz0fRd030J3hBggTCWebM0RpfVYu5GqLQExVgcu1cuGtY6cbBB6QDz0UOygYcc9bRyx5gOJEHEX7oQuul5JPB51K1oasjtii3pAUNzWBywpZZ-JarewQ8t6nGdhG79j49I_rTcfeJEghnTyBnKcYMn-exwXq_80lAxnZGRn0_lShwGAqqCmcrZ-3749sIVjQE9hMpGet-6P7CYWxYa1McE8irFF00z78l_gt9PthwYAzb_9U275aaa0kKMeVtndGqFj9W0mBEBqVcH6RoRZBwXMjxO8i96lKpbJszQi46kCIFcbA97t-aRqh4OFZVGD1vPyqiWxfXs6PYGq2OhNjKaAktpu9VRhuPWE-qsg7QRYhrVP6RKjmtjW3i8PCczAPWSw4L23mH4y-VkJMP5P0GSFoJct9rGKq-iezrxg0JldwGpH-oEPR1jDi27MKUYd7iw--XG8TTMmdAvu095mNQ23VLMo_ALIL6d7rR6XK5bjaOtflVCwOf6sLZjrhPwcd1R0lskEf5IVkqmkM66JGIp8qtv=s30-no)
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OoOhff , me neither ! :o Hahahha ! Not ME wearing it !
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OoOhff , me neither ! :o Hahahha ! Not ME wearing it !
The kilt should do ......
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The kilt should do ......
And I would take on all comer's in the white leg contest to ! ;D
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And I would take on all comer's in the white leg contest to ! ;D
Oooh, now there's something I could give you a run for your money on... :-[
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Oooh, now there's something I could give you a run for your money on... :-[
Is that a challenge brother ? Hahahaha ! ;)
Anyways.... What were we talking about ? OH ! The spacer thing. Yes, more human temps today in the 50's. And same behavior at operating temp idle... leaned out a bit and surgy. So , the "wall of fuel" had to be a little "restructured". Then.... after a little port matched exhaust modification thing. I don't know? Lets call it the " GHG torque tube, better bottom end , anti- reversion extenderizer " ? The Idle was affected again, then a little more "reconstruction". Like I said.... I am bored ! LOL ! I SHOULD takes this thing for a ride ?
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............ I SHOULD takes this thing for a ride ?
Yes, yes you should.
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Holy Sh&T !?! :o Witchcraft seeeeems to work ! A MOST definite improvement that can be felt. Better and snappier throttle response... Better off the line... Better bottom end .... Better mid-range. AND still comes on like gang buster's in the top end with the big header ? There most be some science out there to explain all this ?! ;D ;)
Lets see ? The further distance AWAY the injector is from the valve head.. may be giving that fuel spay some more time to atomize.... Instead of just splattering on the port floor pointed down like that ? The port matched exhaust extension, ...into the header. Keeps the velocity UP at low and mid RPM's , and preserves the pipes good anti-reversion characteristics ? Ummmmmm....
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.....
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Amazin', ain't it?
:)
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Amazin', ain't it?
:)
Hehehehe. Oh yes it is ! THAT little design there, worked quite well in shaving off a few tenths of a second , on an old 78 Camero down south . ;) And cost pennies....
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If you can make that long enough to get all the way to the first bend in the pipe, it should work even better.
:)
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It's right there ;) See that clear spot in the header ? I bet ya that area cleans up a little bit more..
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Latest Dyno pull after another season of hammering the bike... gawd this bottom end IS good. Scooterbob and I figured, that since everyone ELSE has been getting one of those fancy multi angle valve jobs of his, we'd do it for ourselves finally ! Anways, the results are 36 HP and 38 ft lbs. at the wheel peak , at about 5300 rpm's and 4500 rpm's respectively. Gained a bit more in the mid-range , between 3000 and 4000 rpm's.
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Latest Dyno pull after another season of hammering the bike... gawd this bottom end IS good. Scooterbob and I figured, that since everyone ELSE has been getting one of those fancy multi angle valve jobs of his, we'd do it for ourselves finally ! Anways, the results are 36 HP and 38 ft lbs. at the wheel peak , at about 5300 rpm's and 4500 rpm's respectively. Gained a bit more in the mid-range , between 3000 and 4000 rpm's.
Excellent result, mind you I get a sore neck checking the sheet.
Bet you notice that when riding.
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Excellent result, mind you I get a sore neck checking the sheet.
Bet you notice that when riding.
Heard that ! ;)
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Some shot's of Scooterbobs beautiful Multi angle valve job . Love that swirl polish on the intake valve. Chamber and port work ain't to bad either ;).....
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......
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And of course.... a just reword for a hard days spent. A bit of Irish Whiskey and some music to get one in the mood. ;D ;)
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I have mentioned in the past an intake manifold modification .. somewhere back on this long arse thread ?!... That I have been using and testing out in various configurations and in conjunction with ALL the other top end hot rod parts and combinations we have been working on, for these past four or five years now on mine ? We also have been testing it out for at least the last few years on a completely stock C-5 .... both on the road and on the Dyno.
It's a simple vortex generator(s) installed behind the injector in the intake manifold which helps with fuel presentation into the chamber. It helps to atomize the fuel better and it may create a low pressure area of it's leading edge to help with cylinder charging. It was developed by a local long time tuner and natural gas drag racer by the name of Pete Burger. I can tell you that it has certainly helped us with better HP and toque numbers, as well as better throttle response. I can also tell you that is has improved that Bone stock C-5... to about 23-24 HP at the wheel without any other modification done. Also with much better throttle response and shove out of that rear wheel and etc. But most impressively I think for that stock bike, it's done WITHOUT the need for a fuel correction as one would do with a PC-V or an EJK and etc. Anyway's guys , it's been well tested and banged on and I like it and it does it's thing. It not MY mod.. but I was just happy to test and tune on it for a friend and along with everything else we were doing. If there is any interest in it, I would be happy to put you in touch with Pete. He has fittingly called it the "Fin ". Here's are a few pics of the double Fin arrangement that I use .....
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And a couple shots of the single "Fin" arrangement tested on my bike and the Stock C-5.....
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I installed a vortex generator called a Swarp in the intake tract of my 1978 Yamaha SR500, although it sure didn't look like that. The device seemed to increase torque a little in the mid-range and decrease power at "high" revs. It also seemed to improve throttle response slightly. So I kept it in until I sold the bike. I don't think the thing sold very well and a year after it came out I never heard about it again. ???
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Dual fin!!? :o That looks pretty sweet. It must still be experimental.
I only got the single from Pete!
I haven't ridden enough since installation to make a statement yet, but it is a nicely crafted part, made from a stock RE intake. Installation was simple too. :)
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Dual fin!!? :o That looks pretty sweet. It must still be experimental.
I only got the single from Pete!
I haven't ridden enough since installation to make a statement yet, but it is a nicely crafted part, made from a stock RE intake. Installation was simple too. :)
Well.... if it were to ever stop RAINING in the pacific north west ! Hehehehe ! ;) I'm sure Pete would love your input. :) And then if you like... we can swap my double for your single, and you can see how you like it. I KNOW they are both good. ;) We actually put a different version of your's in that stock C-5 first and let the gentleman ride on it for a season... He loved the improvement. THEN... we took it out an tortured him for a season without one. ;D And he clambered to have it put BACK in the whole time. Then YOUR's was developed... and ran in my bike ;) and THEN back into that Stock C-5. He's QUITE happy to not only have one back in , but an improvement over the first one he had.
I installed a vortex generator called a Swarp in the intake tract of my 1978 Yamaha SR500, although it sure didn't look like that. The device seemed to increase torque a little in the mid-range and decrease power at "high" revs. It also seemed to improve throttle response slightly. So I kept it in until I sold the bike. I don't think the thing sold very well and a year after it came out I never heard about it again. ???
I think I know what your talking about ? Like a ring thing with with triangles sticking out into the air flow? No... this is different design. I think it would be fair to call in an airfoil. Where "angle of attack" or where it's installed in the intake is important...considering the shape of the UCE intake port and how the air fuel mixture turns down into and past the valve head. It's also like something you might see on the leading edge of wings on a plane... to help with lift I believe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UlsArvbTeo
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That's the big secret you've been sitting on this whole time? Guess I expected more. Rainbows, unicorns, somethin'. I know the science is there but part of me wants it to look cooler. Maybe I've just been drooling over Mazda's new race car too much lately. That thing looks amazing!
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That's the big secret you've been sitting on this whole time? Guess I expected more. Rainbows, unicorns, somethin'. I know the science is there but part of me wants it to look cooler. Maybe I've just been drooling over Mazda's new race car too much lately. That thing looks amazing!
Hahaha ! Well... what else would you expect from us Scott ? Simple, easy and use what you already got and make it better. Like pretty much everything else we did ? Under a hundred bucks for an easy bolt on part , that add's a few ft lbs and hp, more efficient burn and etc. Without doing anything else to a completely stock bike ? Like I said I was impressed, especially after doing all that we have done and knowing how hard it can be to make HP on these bikes. Now... stick in a stupid piece of metal in the intake and you just picked up three feckin' HP ?! Come on man that ain't fair ! Hahahaha! And plus... not so much of a secret, but we wanted to make sure the damn thing works first ! On the road over time , not just on the Dyno. Pete was doing his smoke tube testing , with different shapes , designs , with single and multiple shapes to suit the Enfield intake and such.... try it out and see how you do and etc. I KNEW a couple years ago that the first design worked.... but Pete's pretty meticulous and wanted to nail down the shape(s) that performed the best for the Enfield. And rightly so I might add. He has used these in other applications... Cars, Bike's, Carts Racers, both on the road and racing. I hear tell of some intake's that have these installed deep inside and away from the prying eye's of track inspectors ;). So anyways, this particular one is not a one size fits all for any type of bike... it was designed and tested specifically for the UCE Enfield with EFI.
I see what you mean ! That RT24-P IS a pretty sick looking Car......
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Youse guyse do good.
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Youse guyse do good.
Yeah, us guys do ah-ight ? Youse ain't too bad yourselves now !.... YOU betcha ! Hehehehe ;)
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Heading back to NY to visit my mom in a few weeks, nice preview of what I'll be hearing ;)
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Those finns look just like the ones in a keihin air striker carbs.
This one is a modified version, that horizontal plate in the middle is an add on.
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Heading back to NY to visit my mom in a few weeks, nice preview of what I'll be hearing ;)
What you MAY NOT be hearing on THAT side of the river, is a whole lot of the "er" sound. Hahaha ! But the vernacular will be similar. ;)
Those finns look just like the ones in a keihin air striker carbs.
This one is a modified version, that horizontal plate in the middle is an add on.
Pretty damn cool . That carb is off of a quad, correct ?
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I think it is from a motocross bike, the picture is from a thumpertalk dirtbike forum.