[AzCal Retred]

I ran into a 1965 Bridgestone 90 "roller" for $65. Rather than resurrect a unmaintainable, unrideable art project, it seems to me that a horizontal single Honda clone of 90cc - 190cc would be a better choice as a power plant. The current 190cc engines make upwards of 18 HP and have 5 speed gearboxes. An 18 HP, 200 pound road burner would be a hoot. Even a 8 HP Trail 90 dual-range motor would be fun. Better than looking for a 50 year old rebuilt 2-stroke crank, functional gearset, suitable 2-stroke carb and the last surviving composite Bridgestone rotary valve in existence. I was surprised to find that Summit Racing had a large selection of small economically-priced tires suitable for this machine. The OEM units are savagely crystallized! 

[Arschloch]

Kindergarden.

[NVDucati]

I'd say go for it. I think I'd take a tape measure with me just to make sure there is enough space between the head and the front wheel. If that is a problem you might consider this path;

[AzCal Retred]

The horizontal is my preference, but maybe better one of these Lifan CG clones 150cc - 250cc units if front wheel clearance is an issue.

[gizzo]

The horizontal is my preference, but maybe better one of these Lifan CG clones 150cc - 250cc units if front wheel clearance is an issue.

Where do you buy one of those? They're currently unobtanium in AU. I need one for my SL125 restomod project...

[AzCal Retred]

Pit bike engines - Amazon or e-bay. Shipping is likely $200 or so. I can drive down to LA and pick one up locally.


https://www.amazon.com/Engine-4-stroke-Vertical-5-Speed-Transmission/dp/B0919LMSXG/ref=asc_df_B0919LMSXG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=608067203717&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16028602463473995197&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031847&hvtargid=pla-1680614683648&psc=1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354008116695?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=354008116695&targetid=1644837434843&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9031847&poi=&campaignid=16743749222&mkgroupid=138744546207&rlsatarget=pla-1644837434843&abcId=9300842&merchantid=459454622&gclid=CjwKCAjwg5uZBhATEiwAhhRLHqBN7CMNa0FxnrIMo9fhO3H3Jl-AwAmXXZ7jOXobynLw0_pKfzuHoRoCkm0QAvD_BwE

Here's a six speed...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225164132201?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1IWeHpiQITXuhFG8CxUiiag62&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=225164132201&targetid=1645685074248&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9031847&poi=&campaignid=16730423415&mkgroupid=135815925780&rlsatarget=pla-1645685074248&abcId=9300841&merchantid=6296724&gclid=CjwKCAjwg5uZBhATEiwAhhRLHmhP0q_DuR8d1dbx0WXsn-HHpLTwVphGUXCJIpbzVhrTXdLMl0KvFRoC3ZoQAvD_BwE

This Zongshen 190 horizontal motor has a 5 speed gearbox - +18 HP - and there is a 4-valve 212cc version...
https://www.amazon.com/Zongshen-ZS190-2-Valve-Engine-Electric/dp/B0B8C5T2MT/ref=asc_df_B0B8C5T2MT/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=598359407273&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2628083815520713964&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031847&hvtargid=pla-1733241561984&psc=1

[cyrusb]

I like the tank badge!!!
    Since you have the tape measure out, how about a little Panigale ??

[Arschloch]

I like the tank badge!!!
    Since you have the tape measure out, how about a little Panigale ??

A Lifan or Zongshen has the advantage that it costs less than a pair of pistons for the panigale, hence AzCal can keep putting a new motor into that moped almost every second week after it sizes to function.

[AzCal Retred]

Tank badge? Nice that it intimates "Built for Speed"! 

I think a Panigale would make the frame assume a crescent shape...

But it should be fine up to maybe 20 HP or so. The SLS front brake looks to be right off a DT1. If the 3.00x17 tire could get some bite, it might prevent you from rolling backwards when stopped on an uphill.

The spring rates are made for someone about 120 pounds max. Should be a plush ride for me until it bottoms out! 

One set of Panigale pistons should cover the project at least 5 times over...and can you imagine that a Panigale rider that would ever need to make payments for parts?
DUCATI PANIGALE PISTONS+CYLINDER 1199/R VERSION , AND LEGGERA VERSION 12022261B
Price: US $2,300.00: $96 for 24 months with PayPal Credit *https://www.ebay.com/itm/323775565078

[gizzo]

and can you imagine that a Panigale rider that would ever need to make payments for parts?[/color]
DUCATI PANIGALE PISTONS+CYLINDER 1199/R VERSION , AND LEGGERA VERSION 12022261B
Price: US $2,300.00: $96 for 24 months with PayPal Credit *https://www.ebay.com/itm/323775565078

Yep, the third owner, the one who bought the most motorbike he could afford, but nothing left over for gear or maintenance. Or the dude who bought one cheap as an insurance write off to build a cool track bike. I think you'll find a lot of broken panigales out there waiting for moneys. I know of a couple....

[AzCal Retred]

If I could score a 25 year old rebuilt body, a small box of talent, a dash of 20:15 eyesight and a pinch of cat-like reflexes, a Panigale might hold some interest. Over here dead & wounded (ex-hero!) Ducati Monsters are plentiful. Same story - money for payments, but when it breaks...

Gizzo - Did those eBay & Amazon links pan out when seen from across the South Pacific? Generally it's easy to spend money...   "There's NO SUBSTITUTE for cubic dollars..."

[gizzo]

Gizzo - Did those eBay & Amazon links pan out when seen from across the South Pacific? Generally it's easy to spend money...   "There's NO SUBSTITUTE for cubic dollars..."

They did work, thanks. Haven't had a close look yet though. I'll wait til I'm at a.desktop.sometimes itss too hard on the phone. Prices looked keen but I imagine shipping will kill it. Thanks.

[Arschloch]

If I could score a 25 year old rebuilt body, a small box of talent, a dash of 20:15 eyesight and a pinch of cat-like reflexes, a Panigale might hold some interest. Over here dead & wounded (ex-hero!) Ducati Monsters are plentiful. Same story - money for payments, but when it breaks...

Gizzo - Did those eBay & Amazon links pan out when seen from across the South Pacific? Generally it's easy to spend money...   "There's NO SUBSTITUTE for cubic dollars..."

I would rather pick a Monster and build a Cafe out of it. Walt Siegl does a decent job on it. However, sincere the west has the most competent and benevolent leaders in world's history and female Mussolini's are just around the corner it's probably a better idea to buy s parashoote and jump out of the plane.

[AzCal Retred]

Monster? Kindergarten stuff. The old 600 Monster, 380 pounds, 53 HP, 120 MPH, Mikunis, already "cafe" as much as you'd possibly need. You can add useless bits & make it heavier, but it's already superbly competent. All it needs is a tank of gas, excellent tires and a proficient rider, no trick to that.   https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/ducati/ducati_monster_600%2096.htm

More better to start with something like one of these and massage it into improved functionality:
MC-N021, 200 pounds, dual discs front, single disc rear. $1400
https://www.powersportsmax.com/product_info.php/cPath/482/products_id/21853
Add this powerplant:
212cc, 4-valve, 5 speed $1200
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154492392299?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1v37xf_nwRaiYicPSVbVC-g31&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=154492392299&targetid=1644837434323&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9031847&poi=&campaignid=16743749222&mkgroupid=138744546207&rlsatarget=pla-1644837434323&abcId=9300842&merchantid=459460965&gclid=CjwKCAjwyaWZBhBGEiwACslQo9iqr1KOhftjV1REnVmOCDVRfbMN4gIcizJUiuJAfTyi-imfbPUX9BoCxqEQAvD_BwE
and you end up with a 200 pound, 20 HP machine that's a hoot to flog around a corner at 10/10ths, all for maybe under $3K. Anyone can whiz around the street at +100 on a modern 500cc - 700cc sportbike, but likely under 10% can actually utilize the performance of these machines or deal with these speeds. The track is the place to sort out the wheat from the chaff. The street's pretty random, 20 HP is a lot more realistic, survivable and fun to ride flat out there.

[Arschloch]

Well it looks way more pleasant than what's leaving the factory now at least. 

[Richard230]

How about ditching that idea and just get one of these:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIHPmZAcbiM

[Arschloch]

The rumours are brewing Duc. may come out with a single, might be a better idea than keeping the "improvements" on the monster going on and on.

[Arschloch]

How about ditching that idea and just get one of these:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIHPmZAcbiM

Why so humble, how about 500hp atleast.

[Richard230]

Why so humble, how about 500hp atleast.

If you want that you will need to invest in a Boss Hog (I think that is what it is called) that is powered by a hopped-up American V-8. Nothing succeeds like excess in the U.S. 

[Arschloch]

If you want that you will need to invest in a Boss Hog (I think that is what it is called) that is powered by a hopped-up American V-8. Nothing succeeds like excess in the U.S. 

If it might be faster than the Busa considering it might excell in excess weight too?

[AzCal Retred]

Wrestling around +600 pounds of bike that only excels at accelerating in a straight line (and decimating your wallet) doesn't have much appeal. Something fun, affordable, not a back-killer to roll around the shop, and satisfying to ride & fettle seems a better use of time & resources. Derottone's highly polished GT535 ticks all these boxes.

Used Hayabusa's are easy to come by, living with one less so. There's not much point to paying for all that "zoom" if it's unlikely you'll use it. Paying $200 to $500 per Z rated tire with a service life of maybe 2,000 miles and new chain & sprocket sets every 4,000 or so gets old quickly. You can't economize on that stuff either unless you have a death wish. Hayabusa's are a game for young guys with money that haven't spent time in an Orthopaedics ward or yet attended a lot of funerals. Boss Hog aka Boss Hoss? mostly a way to separate you from your money. But they are beautiful art in their own way.
https://bosshoss.com/about/

Actually going racing and competing weeds out what hardware works from what doesn't. Building it yourself engages the creative juices and is educational, both worthwhile ends.

[cyrusb]

Wow, I offered up the Paini as a joke..
 Now we are up to American V8"s
 Show a pic of the old girl, if possible maybe a resto is in order.
 History and older bikes is gaining in value every day.
 

[Richard230]

It isn't the Boss Hog that I was thinking of but the BossHoss.  Here is a link that will transport you to their big girl site. If I bought one of these road compactors, I would need two more wheels to keep it upright:  https://bosshoss.com/bikes/

[AzCal Retred]

The Bridgestone's a good frame, tank & wheels. A current production engine makes it functional. Rebuilding a 1965 Bridgestone 90cc trail bike to original spec is pricey & time consuming and plays into a very limited market; it would have to be a "labour of love" which would require an emotional connection that isn't there. The present bumper crop of "cherried out" CT90 Hondas asking $2K - $3K is counterbalanced by a wealth of cheap used bits and quite a few $200 - $400 fairly intact "Barn Finds". If/when the economy tanks, these cherries are just worth their functional value which will be a lot less that when there were folks competing with their spare play money for status symbols.

The Bridgestone's possible value to me is as a very lightweight beater "camp bike". The 90cc Honda dual range transmission would make it useful in hilly terrain as well as on the flats. The Honda powerplant has a universe of readily available bits and is readily replaceable with much more powerful modern clones if that was desired. It essentially becomes a "Honda Sport 90" but with the trail bike dual range, eliminating the need for the Bridgestones dual rear sprockets. It's of very lightweight construction, so actual speed would require better brakes & suspension. Slow is cheap, speed will cost real money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Sport_90

Taking it back to stock trim would require a totally rebuilt power plant/gear set/clutch, a functioning 1965 carb, air box, oil pump, & exhaust system as well as the various control cables ($$$). So far I've just seen engine cases and I don't have a time machine. Bridgestone bits are rare, recreating a highly developed rotary valve 2 stroke is a just so story. The Honda option seems more reality based. If anyone wants to relieve me of this jewel for their own purposes, just speak up, no rush.

That's the real beauty of owning an old Enfield: WE have Hitchcock's. 

[Richard230]

And buying parts from Hitchock's is a lot easier than doing so from RENA. 

[Arschloch]

.... Derottone's highly polished GT535 ticks all these boxes....

Oh..thank you. 

It sure does so for me, as a single cylinder moto. Almost anyone else will prefere a bike with a counter balancers, lesser oil change intervals, easier maintainance, less vibrations, alloy frame and wheels, ABS and EU6 certification and possibly a tripper navigation system that leads you the way to the next whisky bar.

[gizzo]

Monster? Kindergarten stuff. The old 600 Monster, 380 pounds, 53 HP, 120 MPH, Mikunis, already "cafe" as much as you'd possibly need. You can add useless bits & make it heavier, but it's already superbly competent. All it needs is a tank of gas, excellent tires and a proficient rider, no trick to that.   https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/ducati/ducati_monster_600%2096.htm

I see one of those lurking in my garage doorway as I raise a glass of rum n coke to our lamented monarch (it's a public holiday here in her memory, huzzah!).

Like you say, it's enormously competent, fast enough and very comfortable. But like Otto says, they cafe out very nicely and there's so many of them out there, it's not like you're ruining a classic bike. Better than some Chinese POS in my opinion.

Still reckon you're on the right track with the Chinese crate motor in the Bridgestone though. Do it!