Author Topic: "Rocker" Bullet 535  (Read 14051 times)

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StreetKleaver

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on: February 04, 2022, 10:38:34 am
Hi guys. I'm Ben from Queensland, Australia. Background is Hot Rods, Kustom Kulture and few custom bikes over the years. Been riding and racing bikes for 25 years. Mainly Enduro and the odd motocross but always had a soft spot for British and classic motorcycles thanks to my late grandfather.
Mechanical Fitter and Boilermaker are my trades, so it goes somewhat hand in hand with my hobbies!  :D

2004 Bullet "E" 500 with 5 Speed Box.

The current specs of it thus far.

Stock Head, Valves, Cams.
Hitchcocks Accralite 535cc +20 piston.
Alloy Barrel.
Hitchcocks Steel rod, roller big end.
All Bottom end bearings replaced with Japanese bearings.
Genuine Mikuni VM32.
Modified Rectangular airbox (larger intake ID) all fully seal TIG welded with DNA filter.
Pazon Electronic Ignition.
Hitchcocks larger pump discs, spindle and worm gear.
The rocker feed pipe lower single section has been replaced with a larger ID pipe to take advantage of this.
A "Bun Breather" style Breather system and separate timing chest Breather filter all with non return valves
5 speed box.
Hitchcocks 5 plate clutch kit.
Gearing is 19/38.

Day I got it :)



First issue of the bat was a crack that had formed in the front rim.



A friend in the Royal Enfield club had a NOS front hub and spoke set. So I whipped up a frame, spun up on the lathe some axle centers and got to work. Manage to true the wheel under 15 tho each way. Good enough for something that probably won't see 100mph!



Next came sorting out the breathers. All breathers bar the crankcase breather hose was blocked off by the previous owner, Which was not good for the gaskets and seals. This thing leaked like a siv.

Got the Hithchcocks crankcase breather/oil return kit.

TIG welded up the old airbox which now is a toolbox and mounted a bulk head fitting and breather filter for the timing chest. This is based off the "Bunn Breather" System. The timing chest breather the Non return valve allows the breather to draw air in through the Filter mounted in the toolbox but doesnt allow oil to be pumped out of the breather.

Also fitted anew seat, I had to turn up some bosses and a hinge for it. But turned out like it belongs there. :)



Nex came the DNA filter for the rectangular airbox. I also welded a larger ID neck onto the airbox along with fully seal TIG welding the whole thing.



Mounted the Genuine Mikuni VM32, also had to turn down the mounting flange, countersink the bolts and use a genuine Mikuni Rubber. To get the carburetor closer to the engine since the cable was having clearance issues but now fits a very snug fit!



Photo of the sealed airbox, back from the powder coaster. All mountedup looking like it belongs there.



Fitted the Hitchcocks oversize pump discs, worm gear and spindle kit. Felt like an age to lap those in!
But what always bothered me was the lower section of the feed pipe. The lower barb fitting that screw into the case is a larger ID than the actual lower section of the feed pipe. So I matched the ID of the case fitting to a new lower section of feed pipe which would be major restriction.



Old vs New Lower section of rocker feed pipe.



Now this was a odd material, I ended up TIG brazing the pipe in, no leaks or cracks! Here's the end result after giving it a light sand to get the chrome coating off.





« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 10:58:51 am by StreetKleaver »
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #1 on: February 04, 2022, 10:40:21 am
The "Tail Up" Look always bothered me. So I did something about it. More time behind the TIG with some Stainless fender struts mounted to the Swing Arm. This went through a few iterations till I rubber mounted the guard to the stainless fender Struts.

Before.



After.



One of the struts cracked. So more was added.



Most original parts were re-used. This is the lower section of the rear guard cut down, with some nuts welded to it. So the rear guard is still very easy to remove. Just unplug the loom, 2 m6 bolts and the lower shock nuts and the whole guard comes off. It's actually easier to remove the rear tyre than the standard setup.



After an extra strut, stiffening bracket and more TIG welding.



And finally after adding some rubber grommets and crush tubes. Mounting the fender to the swing arm gives it that classic look even more so, but really does cop punishment from vibration as the suspension works.

7 Rubber Grommets in total in the whole mounting setup. I've rode it about 1000km's so far with this setup and so far its been solid as a rubber mounted rock.



This job was not particularly fun.
Got a brand new loom. Fixed/Upgraded anything that required on the loom. So of the power and earth wires were just crimped. For example 5x 2.5mm wires going into a single 2.5mm wire with a tiny copper crimp. I replaced the single wire with a 4mm wire and better sorted the multiple wires going into the4mm, flux, soldered and double shrink wrapped. A lot of the bullet connectors were cut off and replaced with Deutsch Plugs. They are a bit bulky, but waterproof and probably the best thing to use automotive wise.



Tucked in the toolbox out of the weather. Pazon Ignition, Lucas Coil, LED flasher relay, Blade fuse holder. All can be unplugged and toolbox removed.



Next came this modification. Converting the A/C headlight circuit to DC and adding a Capacitor.
Side by side is the Lucas Rec/Reg for the Ignition/Blinkers/Horner/Parkers/Tailight and charging circuit.
The lighter colour is just a ebay sourced singal phase Rec/Reg for converting headlight from A/C to D/C.

Capacitor takes the flicker out of the newly added LED Headlight.










Video to go along with it --->https://youtu.be/x-k6eRHzD08<---
« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 10:49:41 am by StreetKleaver »
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #2 on: February 04, 2022, 10:44:50 am
Finally getting close to where its right now.

I nabbed one of these B5 Classic under seat covers off ebay cheap. Gave it a test fit. Definitely wasn't satisfied with the fit.



After some arts and crafts along with some metal sewing...



Nearly there.



Like a Bought One!

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StreetKleaver

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Reply #3 on: February 04, 2022, 10:46:41 am
Another Little modification no one will notice..





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Adrian II

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Reply #4 on: February 04, 2022, 11:05:14 am
Hi Ben,

a load of your pictures are invisible! I tried looking at this page in two different browsers.

Haven't seen a mention of the Bunn breather system for ages, very much a mid-naughties thing.

A.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #5 on: February 04, 2022, 11:06:21 am
Hi Ben,

a load of your pictures are invisible! I tried looking at this page in two different browsers.

Haven't seen a mention of the Bunn breather system for ages, very much a mid-naughties thing.

A.

I cam across a article and documentation of the setup for a Bullet. So I just made up my own version of it.

Ahh google photos might be not playing the game. The GT535 is fine?

***Edit, I had to change a privacy setting** Should work now.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 11:12:01 am by StreetKleaver »
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Adrian II

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Reply #6 on: February 04, 2022, 12:25:14 pm
Seeing 'em just fine now.

If you look at pictures of the Redditch-built Indian Apache 700 twin from 1957/8, you'll see that they also experimented with swinging arm-mounted rear mudguards. Never caught on back then, people were happy with the tail-up look, I guess!

A.
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Mr_84

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Reply #7 on: February 04, 2022, 12:30:16 pm
Holy sh*t that's a lot of custom work! Nice  😎👍


Raymond

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Reply #8 on: February 04, 2022, 12:39:29 pm
Good work, nice looking bike, hope it rides as good as it looks!
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Karl Childers

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Reply #9 on: February 04, 2022, 03:43:48 pm
Thoughtfully conceived and well executed, all those modifications came off well. Very nice!


Paul W

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Reply #10 on: February 04, 2022, 03:53:20 pm
Surely the mudguard, being attached to the swing arm, has considerably increased the unsprung weight.  ;)
Paul W.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #11 on: February 04, 2022, 05:45:56 pm
Beautiful work! Something for us "hammer mechanics" to aspire to, good to know what's possible. Well done!
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Bilgemaster

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Reply #12 on: February 04, 2022, 06:59:47 pm
My hat's off to you. That is some FINE work!
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India. Yet it squeaks by here in Virginia.

 


StreetKleaver

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Reply #13 on: February 04, 2022, 10:27:06 pm
Thanks for the comments chaps. My goal is to stick to proportional "lines" that highlight it's classic design. So mounting the guard on the Swing-arm gives it the classic hardtail look of that era.
I'm 6ft, the seat took to minor adjustments to get in the right spot, Also I went through 3 sets of handlebars just to get the natural feeling when seated. The bars are low and forward enough but without feeling like I'm starting to learn forward. So most of all the things are done so the bike fits me well.

The down and forward proper cafe treatment will get done to my GT535 and similar "era" inspired aesthetics and hand fabricated stuff will get done to that.

Good work, nice looking bike, hope it rides as good as it looks!

Certainly does mate. I have a 2014 GT535 and it leaves that thing behind!

A older picture but I like to get her as low as possible around corners. Sometimes sparks fly. The center stand ends drag and throw sparks. Once they wear down a bit I'll weld some Bis plate ends on there. ;)

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StreetKleaver

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Reply #14 on: February 04, 2022, 10:49:18 pm
Since the whole build is not in the order. Here's something else I missed.

The tail light assembly from previous owner while the idea was ok, the execution was to be desired. A little rough.
It had a cheap Ebay Miller tail light and some duck poo welds holding everything together.  With that HUGE plate with everything screwed to it.



After some chin scratching and visualizing. Once again I took to it with my grinder and TIG welded it all back up, metal finished it and fitted a Lucas 525 tail light.
The big chrome indicators did not stay there long.



Some Black indicators, mounted a little lower. LED bulbs.

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mrunderhill1975a

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Reply #15 on: February 05, 2022, 03:49:51 am
Well done, keep it rolling.  Do you have any tips or suggestions on how to get the wheel lased with such precision?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2022, 03:52:32 am by mrunderhill1975a »


StreetKleaver

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Reply #16 on: February 05, 2022, 04:46:52 am
Well done, keep it rolling.  Do you have any tips or suggestions on how to get the wheel lased with such precision?

It wasn't easy. Just little by little. Gentle adjustments until all spokes were torqued up.
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Mr_84

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Reply #17 on: February 05, 2022, 05:31:27 am
Well done, keep it rolling.  Do you have any tips or suggestions on how to get the wheel lased with such precision?


A couple of tips that work for me , fit all the spokes loosely with an even amount of thread showing . There is a inner and outer spoke on each side making 4 spokes per pattern tighten every 3rd spoke a tiny bit this will happen 4 times to complete the pattern, going around many times doing this little by little will be better than getting greedy, nothing worse than a wheel that is running true side to side but has the dreaded up and down movement. A good thing to note before you start is the off set of the rim to hub some crazy old bikes can be different to what you think , you true your wheel and then fit it to the bike and it's off to one side, not cool! But yes best tip is little by little, good luck


mrunderhill1975a

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Reply #18 on: February 07, 2022, 12:28:44 am
Thanks, my bullet wheels have about 37000 miles on them, and they wobble a bit.  I am reluctant to touch them due to my experience as a pre-teen attempting to true my bicycle wheel.  I still have nightmares!


Karl Childers

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Reply #19 on: February 07, 2022, 01:31:21 am
If you don't already have one a truing stand is the way to go. I have a wheel balancing stand that doubles as one. Working off the bench instead of the bike has its advantages


StreetKleaver

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Reply #20 on: February 19, 2022, 04:37:14 am
Hi guys. A minor update whilst waiting on parts. I was a little worried that the Piston and barrel would need a freshen up.  Ran a compression test. At a smidge over 170psi, I think its safe to leave it alone!
On the way a Price "R" cams, then followed by Hitchcocks competition oversize valves, Samrat Rockers and T6064 push rods.

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Ratz

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Reply #21 on: February 19, 2022, 02:47:02 pm
Hi, thanx for the pictures! I think you did a great job, your Bullet looks the part! Such a sweet bike  8) 8) 8)
And you not only improved the looks of the bike but also the engines reliability. You did all the useful modifications, bigger oilpumps, bearings and so on...
I hope you enjoy her for a long time to come, cheers from Germany,
Ralf
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2014 Continental GT
1996 Suzuki LS 650


Raymond

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Reply #22 on: February 20, 2022, 02:57:42 pm
I'm with Ralf - love this bike.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #23 on: February 23, 2022, 02:32:45 am
Thanks Guys!

The Henry Price "R" cams from the UK arrived today. (Price Part Motorocycles). My hands are full with the GT535 at the moment but I'll install these on the weekend.

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Mr_84

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Reply #24 on: February 23, 2022, 03:50:56 am
Install , ride and report findings here I'm sitting on the edge of my seat already waiting to hear the results of these "R" cams


StreetKleaver

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Reply #25 on: February 23, 2022, 05:27:23 am
Install , ride and report findings here I'm sitting on the edge of my seat already waiting to hear the results of these "R" cams

Haha. Ok Ok!
See how the weather goes. Forecast for rain and possible flooding in my area of SE Queensland at the moment. So we'll see.
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Warwick

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Reply #26 on: February 23, 2022, 08:11:10 pm
Beast!!! Well done :)
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #27 on: February 28, 2022, 10:26:51 pm


Not a successful day. Installed the new Price "R" cams. Had to make a little bit of clearance on the case, installed fine and set the lash. Double checked the timing
Fired it up, started a lot easier than the Indian cams. Nasty clack, clack, clack coming from the head. (more noise than usual)

Whipped the timing cover off again. Double checked and re-set everything, checked timing again. Bolted back together. Fired it up again.

Same again. **Clack Clack Clack**

Popped the rocker covers off. Slowly kicked it over with no spark plug. I could hear the "clack" coming from one of the valves.
Removed the intake valve rocker box and push rod as a process of elimination. Figured out it's the exhaust valve. Makes a nasty clack when it closes. Even when just kicking it over with no plug. With both inlet and exhaust rockers and pushrods removed. No noise. So it's the exhaust valve.

The head is original and has got 50,000+ miles on it. So I'm guessing its due for a rebuild. The exhaust valve has always made a bit of racket. But the new cams being a different profile and slightly higher lift might of amplified the issue, or may even made the valve sticky if they are being lifted past their "wear bedding"?
 
I'd guessing the guide is also worn and sucks oil in because it tends to make plugs look a bit wet/burnt oil at times. Also the top end socket of the push rod is loose. Has a bit of slop and spins around.

Ran another compression test. It's down from 175psi to 130psi.
So something isn't healthy up there, looks like I'll be rebuilding the head sooner rather than later.

**sigh**

At the moment I'm trying to remove the head without force. It's got a lot of glue holding it on!
I try do things in steps so when it comes to tuning it's not a huge change. But looks like it's getting the Hitchcocks Oversize valves now and some port tuning.
Luckily the GT535 is in good shape and I have it to ride.


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AzCal Retred

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Reply #28 on: February 28, 2022, 11:06:47 pm
Nice work!

The head comes off relatively easy IF you pull off the carb mount & tap inside the passage ways, intake & exhaust, alternately with a wood drift.

The spigot isn't the sealing surface. Carbon tends to collect on the outside of the spigot and bond the head to the OD of the spigot.

Maybe some WD40 sprayed into the cylinder will help break the bond from the inside.

Don't pry on the fins!  :o

It'll come off, just keep tapping it upward from inside the ports - ACR -
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #29 on: February 28, 2022, 11:28:40 pm
Nice work!

The head comes off relatively easy IF you pull off the carb mount & tap inside the passage ways, intake & exhaust, alternately with a wood drift.

The spigot isn't the sealing surface. Carbon tends to collect on the outside of the spigot and bond the head to the OD of the spigot.

Maybe some WD40 sprayed into the cylinder will help break the bond from the inside.

Don't pry on the fins!  :o

It'll come off, just keep tapping it upward from inside the ports - ACR -

I learned not to pry on fins as a young chap! Haha.

Older picture, but the head is completely bare at the moment. No Carb, Exhaust, Decomp Valve and Rocker plumbing. I gave up after it not wanting to budge. I've given it a spray of Brake-cleaner around the outside of the gasket, it should soak in a little and let some of that glue go.

I gave up after that. I'll have another crack this afternoon. I don't have a valve spring compressor but I may be able to just to get the valves out at least.
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #30 on: March 01, 2022, 06:02:47 am
Two other methods of using the crank & piston to break the head free:
1) "Indian Rope Trick"; stuff some soft braided nylon thru the spark plug hole with the engine coming up on the compression stroke. Use the KS to make the piston "hydraulic" the head off/loose.
2) Use actual oil. Bring the piston up just before TDC, pump the cylinder full via the spark plug hole, install the plug and kick over.
With the pushrods out either method should work safely.

About the spigot:
In olden tymes it was common to lap the head into the spigot, moving cylinder sealing up to that point instead of a gasket at the base of the spigot. They picked up a bit of compression and eliminated "bonding" the head to the barrel with carbon. Sealing the pushrod tubes becomes the job of a special hand-made gasket or O-ring.

In my last reassembly I packed around the OD of the spigot with copper anti-seize in the hope that this would fill the gap between it and the head recess and not allow hard carbon build up. I'll find out on the next disassembly whether it actually worked or I've just discovered a new way to braze the head to the cylinder..... :o ;D

I plan to lap the head into the spigot next time around, it makes more sense to me sealing-wise. I'll try a bit of custom cut cork composite sheet gasket slathered with Moto-Seal to keep the pushrod tubes sealed. It's just a pushrod motor, if the head isn't stuck to the barrel it comes apart really fast. About the 3rd or 4th time you have something apart it gets easier, right?  ::)
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Adrian II

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Reply #31 on: March 01, 2022, 09:20:27 am
Could be that the washers on the cylinder studs have squashed onto the threads, a known issue. H's used to sell washers allegedly made of better quality steel which don't deform under pressure, and also cylinder studs with the tops machined square to allow you to get a spanner onto them.  Might be worth checking to see if they still have some.

A.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #32 on: March 01, 2022, 10:05:40 am
Two other methods of using the crank & piston to break the head free:
1) "Indian Rope Trick"; stuff some soft braided nylon thru the spark plug hole with the engine coming up on the compression stroke. Use the KS to make the piston "hydraulic" the head off/loose.

That's usually my technique to torque up anything associated with the crank. I'll give it a crack. Another last ditch is tapping in some razer blades around the gasket area. I haven't resorted to that yet.

Good tipe about the spigot!

Could be that the washers on the cylinder studs have squashed onto the threads, a known issue. H's used to sell washers allegedly made of better quality steel which don't deform under pressure, and also cylinder studs with the tops machined square to allow you to get a spanner onto them.  Might be worth checking to see if they still have some.

Just checked they have both of those things. I will be putting in a order shortly for a pair of pushrods, competition valves and possibly valve seats depending how they look when I get the head off and valves out.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #33 on: March 02, 2022, 09:47:23 am
Finally! What A mission that was!
It was a mixture the rope trick. Lots of wriggling and swearing. But got it off.



The crusty head. There's some lovely leverage marks there from previous owner. **sigh**



Valves out. Can see the porting is pretty terrible with the exposed edge on the inlet valve.



The valves. The exhaust valve is well and truly worn with a nice lip towards the end of it's stroke.



Video of how much play the exhaust valve had in the stem/guide

--->https://youtu.be/dex6dgLpGo0<---

As suspected. The exhaust valve was worn on its stem with also a lip worn it where it would reach it's full lift with the stock cams. When I installed the Price "R" cams which have slightly higher lift, the valve would get sticky since its going further wear point mixed with it's wiggle room it would slam shut.

The seats look fine.

I'll be tig welding the deep leverage marks on the head surface then giving it a skim with the mill. I'll tidy up the ports and send the head to my local head reconditioner to install the Hitchcocks competition valves and the inlet opened up to suit.
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Raymond

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Reply #34 on: March 02, 2022, 10:00:47 am
. . . lots of wriggling and swearing . . . lovely leverage marks there from previous owner . . .

I wonder if the PO felt his ears burning as you worked?
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #35 on: March 02, 2022, 10:14:23 am
Now on to the Piston and Cylinder. The good news of my day is the Piston isn't in bad shape at all. The skirts still are showing no signs of wear and is fairly clean for a piston thats done 16,000miles/27,000 kms.
Some typical marks but nothing that's a show stopper. Set of fresh rings and it'll be right to fight another day.

It's a Hitchcocks Accralite 535cc +20 piston.

Right side



Left Side



On to the barrel. There's a old crack on the top fin, another weld job for me....
It starts at cast imperfection, looks like 3-4 little dots and worked its way out to the edge.
Easy fix since I can get to it.






Existing hone marks still present, but pretty well polished. This is the worst scratch on the cylinder, can feel it with my fingernail. Checked the ring gap with the worn rings and it's still under spec. So a light hone, set of new rings on the piston and she'll be good for the rest of the piston and cylinders life.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #36 on: March 02, 2022, 10:15:37 am
I wonder if the PO felt his ears burning as you worked?

Haha! I had to definitely work for it!
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Adrian II

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Reply #37 on: March 02, 2022, 10:27:50 am
Part of the joys of RE ownership are 1) fixing what POs have done, and 2) wondering what they were smoking.

Looking at those marks on the cylinder head joint face, I'm wondering if a piece of plate glass and a couple of sheets of coarse/fine wet and dry sandpaper would be enough. I once bought a brand new head (for an Electra-X) where the joint face was decidedly wavy (not a good advert for milling machines!), but the wet and dry/plate glass sorted it.



You could even go gasket-less for the cylinder head joint. Lap the the top of the cylinder spigot into the recess on the head. That leaves the question of how to seal the pushrod tunnels, but as you have an alloy cylinder barrel, careful use of a hole saw will let you cut O-ring slots. Here's one Bullet Whisperer modified for my Not A Fury.



Losing the gasket will result in a slight compression hike, which with that hi-comp piston already fitted might be more than you're looking for. A spacer under the barrel will compensate if needed.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


StreetKleaver

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Reply #38 on: March 02, 2022, 10:48:15 am
Part of the joys of RE ownership are 1) fixing what POs have done, and 2) wondering what they were smoking.

Looking at those marks on the cylinder head joint face, I'm wondering if a piece of plate glass and a couple of sheets of coarse/fine wet and dry sandpaper would be enough. I once bought a brand new head (for an Electra-X) where the joint face was decidedly wavy (not a good advert for milling machines!), but the wet and dry/plate glass sorted it.

I think the deep ones I'll tack up, hand file then lap them. I have a massive glass table which I lapped my outer chain case on it. Worked a treat.

I'll consider those options. But I have a LOAD of head and base gaskets to choose from. 1.5mm, 1mm and 0.75mm. Along with a couple of thicker and thinner base gaskets.
What came off it was a 0.55mm base gasket and a 0.75mm (approx) head gasket. When the head was healthy compression was measuring at 175psi.

So I may just stick to using them. I'll suss out what I can do at work.

My order is in.
Hitchcocks Competition O/S Valve kit.
The Square head Cylinder stud kit and hardened washers.
Stainless Banjo Bolts, flange nuts etc. Because I like stainless.
New UK made push rods
Samrat Rockers
Accralite 535cc +20 Piston Rings.

So that should freshen it up.
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Paul W

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Reply #39 on: March 02, 2022, 04:59:24 pm
Plate glass is a good flat surface for DIY surface grinding jobs but I've found that good quality kitchen worktop is also a very accurately made flat surface. In the past I successfully resurfaced a small four cylinder cylinder head and other smaller surfacing jobs on what was then my newly fitted garage workbench top, which was made from a spare piece of worktop I had. I spray glued a piece of wet and dry to it, which I just peeled off when finished.
Paul W.


mrunderhill1975a

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Reply #40 on: March 02, 2022, 07:51:38 pm
Adrian II, I agree.


StreetKleaver

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Reply #41 on: March 03, 2022, 01:04:51 am
As it was previously with a 0.75 head gasket and 0.5nn base gasket the compression was 175psi.

I could managed to jet the Carburettor so it wouldn't detonate, but only just. It was a very fine tune. Luckily the fuel RON is Australia is good. Premium is 95 and 98.

If I get 175-180psi of compression again once it's bed in with the same gasket configuration I'll be happy with that. Any higher I'll run into detonation issues.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #42 on: April 04, 2022, 12:30:08 am
Update!

Cylinder fin repaired and Honed. Piston Ring gap spot on!





Got myself one of these. 90L Sandblasting cabinet. But I use Glass Beads Garnet. It's a little more gentle than sand buffs the surface a little more.
Figured it need a little upgrade so whipped up a simple Dust extraction System. Works a treat! Paid itself off.







Head Bead Blasted and the lovely leverage gouges welded up. Ready for the machine shop for a skim.



The new Hitchcocks Oversize valves and Pushrods. Samrat Rockers.



Showing the valve size differences. Quite substantial!



Currently the head is in the shop getting a skim and the valves cut it. I've ported and polished it (no photos of that, since I was back and forth to the cyclinder head shop. Should be ready this week. :)


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Mr_84

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Reply #43 on: April 04, 2022, 08:16:07 am
That's some out the box thinking there with the bead blaster , we often call that kiwi ingenuity but your a bloody Aussie 😆 , the rest of the build looking good 👍😎


StreetKleaver

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Reply #44 on: April 04, 2022, 08:57:53 am
Oi, we can be innovative too across the "Dutch" (ditch)...

 ;) ;) ;) ;D
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #45 on: April 10, 2022, 04:01:39 am
After a few trips back and forth to the head shop from machining to me for porting and polishing. I just tidied up the ports and lumps and bumps. Smoothed areas where it was needed. The casting isn't the greatest with some pits and pockets. But It's complete and a lot better than where it was.



Inlet Port



Exhaust Port



Samrat Rockers and New Hitchcocks Push Rods since the socket of the rocker arm end of the standard exhaust push rod was loose and spinning and had play.



Buttoned up.




So far I've checked the compression prior to first start up. 100psi.
Then one heat cycle up to operating temperature and let it cool down. 110psi.

I'll check again after a gentle ride today and report in.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #46 on: April 10, 2022, 10:47:10 am
Back again after a gentle ride for 50km.

Nothing drastic while I'm bedding the rings in. Just rolling it on between 60-80km/h.
The Price "R" cams do make the valve train a little more noisy. But nothing more than the typical Bullet tappet sounds.

The exhaust note definitely has a different bark now, a bitey crack to it. It's a bit louder too. Throttle response is even better than before.
Power delivery seems strong and linear, before with the standard head and cams in 4th gear (5 speed) rolling 4th up to 80km/h the power delivery would start to sign off around 70km/h then it would be just more rpm and no go.
With the new head and "R" cams rolling on on gently in the same manner 70-80 km/h in 4th gear it is still pulling and isn't ready to sign off yet but at present I'd short shift into 5th. Doesn't even show a sign of laboring like it did before.

After a full tank of fuel to bed the new rings, I'll check the jetting with a few plug chops and do some fine tuning if need be with the carb and ping tune the ignition if it needs it.

Initial compression test before first start was 100psi.
After first heat cycle warmed up to operating temp was 110psi.
Post 50km of gentle riding she's up to 160psi!!!
It's nearly back to where it was at 170psi before the exhaust valve done it's dash.
The exhaust note was getting louder and louder on the way home. ;)

So the rings are bedding in nicely  :D

« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 10:59:36 am by StreetKleaver »
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Adrian II

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Reply #47 on: April 10, 2022, 03:15:15 pm
I'd still have wanted to use the plate glass and wet'n'dry paper on that milled head joint finish, but I'm glad to see it's settling down well. Successful de-plodderization is always rewarding.

All this spot-on performance will now give you the opportunity to test the tensile strength of the Indian alloy con-rod... Henry Price also sells 350 Bullet crankcases converted to 500, should you ever need a set.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


Mr_84

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Reply #48 on: April 10, 2022, 06:43:45 pm


All this spot-on performance will now give you the opportunity to test the tensile strength of the Indian alloy con-rod... Henry Price also sells 350 Bullet crankcases converted to 500, should you ever need a set.

A.

This shouldn't be a problem StreetKleaver already has a steel rod and Japanese bearings , long live the bullet and may its future be strong and enjoyable


Adrian II

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Reply #49 on: April 10, 2022, 07:23:20 pm
In which case, Give it some stick!!!  8)

A.
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Reply #50 on: April 10, 2022, 11:22:41 pm
In which case, Give it some stick!!!  8)

A.

As Mr_84 informs. She has a Iron Belly of updated bearings and the steel conrod. Ready for the power upgrades.

I've tried to cover every base not only for performance, but reliability as well.

All new seals internally. Stainless Qui bolt and Hitchcocks spindle kit with worm gear and Larger pump discs.  The rocker feed plumbing I've modified to take advantage of the higher oil flow. The Samrat rockers oil feed has been drilled a Larger diameter also.

5 speed clutch is updated to the 5 plate with a new inner hub. The only thing I'd like to do in the chain case is update the primary drive chain to the HD Hitchcocks supplied one. Possibly change it to right shift as well.

So the aim was to be the best it can be trying to balance good performance along with reliability.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #51 on: April 23, 2022, 11:41:38 am
So I've out about 500kms down on it now. Rings seem to be bedding in nicely and Compression is a smidge over 170psi after riding it.



Installed a new fuel tap and a fuel filter. Put a 90dg Elbow on the Carburetor fuel inlet fitting. It was a 8mm straight up. Was a absolute pain to route the line. Now it's all neat.
Don't stress, the air lock is gone. Easy to bleed out.



Been out and about.



Just waiting for the short bottle exhaust to show up so I can install that and do some fine tune jetting.

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Paul W

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Reply #52 on: April 23, 2022, 11:54:56 am
That’s a good compression reading. The bike will run well!
Paul W.


Warwick

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Reply #53 on: April 24, 2022, 05:35:26 am
Cool bike :)
2007 Bullet, 1999 Lightning, 2010 Honda VFR1200f, 2019 Interceptor, 2007 Kwaka GPX250R


Raymond

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Reply #54 on: April 24, 2022, 08:22:50 am
In the garage:
2007 Kawasaki W800 SE Polly
1978 Yamaha XS650 Miss November
2003 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Deluxe


StreetKleaver

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Reply #55 on: May 07, 2022, 03:17:24 am
So a simple silencer install completely blew out to a redesign. Typical....  ::)

Was supposed to be a install making the Indian short bottle to fit with my shorter header to replace the hollow Goldstar silencer, which sounds great down low but with it being just like a big hot dog it gets a crackle up higher RPM. I'm not sure how well it performs too. It's all I've had on the bike since owning it.



Installed it, fired it up. Sounded great at idle with a nice thump. As soon as I revved it. It felt choked up and had this weird Pffftt pfffft when backing off. So I did the usual thing and cut it open.
2 internal walls and 3 baffles. It changes direction twice. Very restrictive! So in the bin that baffle goes.



Added a extension so the kick starter doesn't hit the body. Made the end cap removable along with a 2in perforated stainless baffle tube. So it can be repacked. Basically like a nice straight through.
All welded up.



Sand blasted and holes drilled.



2.5 bags of fibreglass fluff later.



Done! Looks a damn treat now!



As for the sound. It has a real nice deep thump at idle. The fiberglass wool takes the tinny hollow crackle out of it while riding. It's still a decent volume but not a offensive one. I'll get a video up when I get a moment.

Cheers

Ben!
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #56 on: May 07, 2022, 03:20:15 am
New Security camera took a nice imagine while I was waiting for her to warm up. ;)
Rockers ride on!

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Karl Childers

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Reply #57 on: May 07, 2022, 04:57:47 am
I like the Ace Cafe gear! I have an Ace sticker on one of my helmets that a good friend brought back from there.


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Reply #58 on: May 07, 2022, 07:15:20 am
Yep like the Ace cafe gear and scene, StreetKleaver now the bullet has been up and running with a bit of a hop up for a wee while how is the beast settling in ?


StreetKleaver

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Reply #59 on: May 07, 2022, 11:01:12 pm
I like the Ace Cafe gear! I have an Ace sticker on one of my helmets that a good friend brought back from there.

I travelled to the UK and France back in 2018. Wherever I go I always collect pins, patches or any sort of memorabilia.
The Brando jacket is 2nd hand but like brand new "Mars Leathers", a very good leather company in Melbourne. It was tailored fit and fits me well!



Yep like the Ace cafe gear and scene, StreetKleaver now the bullet has been up and running with a bit of a hop up for a wee while how is the beast settling in ?

I actually haven't been able to ride as much as I like. I've been on evening shifts for the last 3 weeks. It feels like its pretty well run in. It does need a tweak with the jetting. Needle needs the clip raised a position and just have to check the main jet again with some plug chops. It feels on the rich side now with that porting. But didn't want to touch it until I finished this silencer. Which I have a feeling that will flow a lot better than the gold star. Keeping velocity up since its a straight though baffle not a big long hotdog resonator.
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Mr_84

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Reply #60 on: May 08, 2022, 09:31:00 am
Ace cafe helmet out and about with the bullet today 👍



StreetKleaver

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Reply #61 on: May 08, 2022, 09:57:51 pm
Nice one!

The weather in my part of south east Queensland is cooling down so the leather jacket is being worn more.

I'd like to get a old puddin basin type helmet but the closest thing that meets AU/NZ standards is the M2R Rebel.
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Reply #62 on: June 04, 2022, 04:47:41 am
Bit of an update.

I'm currently on a new tangent. Building a Ace Canister style airbox out of stainless with a built in velocity stack.

Just installed Hitchcocks 90023 High Performance cams. Although they are giving me some tuning woes with the Mikuni Round slide VM32, I'll be replacing it with a Mikuni TM32.
Which I've started a thread seeking any knowledge or advice.

Here's a photo from last weekends DGR. It was late notice for me. So I threw on the jacket and headed out for the ride and made a donation for a good cause!
Hope you all are out on 2 wheels this weekend.
Cheers

Ben

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Karl Childers

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Reply #63 on: June 04, 2022, 01:21:30 pm
Thumbs up! Good cause, great picture, you look the part! To me it's always a plus when both the bike and rider are so dialed in when it comes to vintage Brit bikes.


StreetKleaver

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Reply #64 on: June 05, 2022, 10:49:15 am
Thumbs up! Good cause, great picture, you look the part! To me it's always a plus when both the bike and rider are so dialed in when it comes to vintage Brit bikes.

Thanks mate. The whole era I'm inspired by and I it's how my bikes take shape sticking to that authenticity but with some modern liberties and techniques of course.

Bit of an update. While I'm waiting for my Mikuni TM32 to turn up in the mail. I've started my "Kleaver Can".
The bike original came with the Ace Canister in a box. But it looked like it had fell to bits and suffered a slow death a long time ago.

So this is my iteration. I formed up a bit of 0.9mm Stainless sheet on the slip rollers compared to the 4in/100mm Plumbing Poly pipe coupler the Ace Canister is made from.

It's made to take the same filter I run on my GT535, here's a picture of it I from my GT535 thread.



What I started with. The old Poly Pipe got used as a jig tacking it all together. Got a bit melted. Haha



Where I finished up this afternoon. Filter mounts on the flange nice and easy. There's a stiffner that runs vertical on the back of the can. Stainless and I have a love hate relationship. It doesn't like vibration so choosing your grade and filler wire is crucial.
Bracket will bolt on to the existing filter mount on the frame, Tucks underneath the frame neatly too.

Just waiting for my 2.25"/57mm mandrel bend to arrive along with the donut to make a trumpet that will be  enclosed inside the can.



This week I'll be finishing this off and mounting the Mikuni Tm32.

Cheers guys.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #65 on: June 06, 2022, 07:58:50 pm


Carb is mounted. I did have it running late yesterday evening but had to stop so I wouldn't upset the neighbors.
It's a very snug fit, But actually tucks in under there better than the Mikuni VM32. From the photo angle it looks like it's touching the Fuel tank bracket but there's 5mm of room there.

Running wise, So far I can get it to tick over/idle at a reasonable speed. A little slower than I'd usually set it. Throttle response is 10x better and the rpm hang is still "just" there but negligible. It behaves better with the airbox on but so far I've been getting the slow speed circuit ballpark with the airbox off.

So with my findings with these cams that the slide needs a larger slide opening for it to idle with the Round Slide and Flat slide.
Behavior was better with the leaner slide cutaway with the VM Round slide and larger pilot jet.
The pilot jet is a lot bigger than I was using before and compared to recorded Bullets. At the moment its a 40 Pilot with the air screw out 3 turns. And it's quite happy there. Throttle response is a lot better. I can't "Blip" the throttle like a MX bike but rolling it on quickly stationary it doesn't seem to bog/cough now. Finger cross the TM is doing its thing.

I think I'll have to get the thinner copper head gasket from HMC to bump the compression up that little more just to tidy that low vacuum up.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #66 on: June 09, 2022, 07:46:40 pm
Here's some progress of the new can. The stack fabrication didn't go as smooth as I like. The ID of the Donut was a wall thickness smaller than the 60dg bend 2-1/4" mandrel. So it had to be split 4 ways and trimmed to tighten up the diameter to match the pipe.

A slow fiddly process. Slowly trimming the bend and length, getting the Can mounted in a good spot so rear guard bolt can still be accessed (I like road side user friendly.

Overall inlet track roughly measuring from the center point on the head where the intake valve is 260mm. Where as the GT535 with the Air Kit (my version( is 360mm).

Once again I ran out of daytime hours that keep the neighbors happy. They always think my bikes are "broken". Haha

Here's the process so far.











That's the rough mock up. I'll have it done this afternoon and hopefully get it somewhat ride-able. It's having a photoshoot this weekend!

Ben
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Mr_84

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Reply #67 on: June 10, 2022, 05:57:08 am
That's definitely a little different to my air can as you have swept the velocity stack downward towards the filter , I guess this is the Kleaver (clever) air can not the Mr 84 air can haha .
Nice work as always Ben can't wait to see the finished product . Is this weekends  photo shoot for anything in particular ?


StreetKleaver

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Reply #68 on: June 10, 2022, 12:52:45 pm
All finished! Turned out good!

I'll get it powder coasted this week. Will look like a factory one! :)







It's perfect Queensland winter at the moment. This was shortly after I had been taking it for a test ride at sunset.




« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 01:09:12 pm by StreetKleaver »
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #69 on: June 10, 2022, 12:58:34 pm
That's definitely a little different to my air can as you have swept the velocity stack downward towards the filter , I guess this is the Kleaver (clever) air can not the Mr 84 air can haha .
Nice work as always Ben can't wait to see the finished product . Is this weekends  photo shoot for anything in particular ?

Haha. Thanks mate. I test rode it this arvo. It actually cleaned up the bottom end and the throttle response. Although with these HM cams its still needs a bump in compression. I've ordered the 3-way pinion gear.
Which I'll try on these cams on the advanced position which works out 3dgs advanced on the cams. Which will open and close the intake sooner which will raise my dynamic compression and shift the power down lower just a little.
They are peaky cams, but good for open roads, which is 80% of the roads where I live.

Photo shoot is just a pair of photographers who love Royal Enfields. They're heading up tomorrow for a run and to take snaps of this thing. :)
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Reply #70 on: June 14, 2022, 12:17:40 am
I've seemed to have scared everyone off.
Anyway!
Here's some snaps from our ride over the weekend. One of the gentlemen is a talented RE fanatic photographer. Sorry for the blokes who don't run a high resolution monitor or screen.

Just prior to these snaps she hit 90mph with a rich tune. So there's definitely a beast in there!











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Karl Childers

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Reply #71 on: June 14, 2022, 12:27:05 am
Great Pix! 90mph? Only in my dreams.


Mr_84

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Reply #72 on: June 14, 2022, 08:36:59 am
Theses photos loaded up from the bottom for me eg black n white first , opon first viewing I was enjoying the old way it seemed appropriate as it created as scene  , but then I viewed the color photos and all was enhanced so much more . B/W , colour I like em both 👍


Adrian II

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Reply #73 on: June 14, 2022, 02:36:53 pm
Quote
Just prior to these snaps she hit 90mph with a rich tune. So there's definitely a beast in there!

The original design always has been tunable, though with a stock Chennai 500 engine you'd be hard pressed to tell. Redditch had a scrambler/MX version as well as the more sedate 500 tourer. The power output of yours could be in the same ball park, and if you've got a beefed-up the bottom end to cope, it sounds like you're winning.  :)

A. 
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


StreetKleaver

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Reply #74 on: June 14, 2022, 03:07:19 pm
The original design always has been tunable, though with a stock Chennai 500 engine you'd be hard pressed to tell. Redditch had a scrambler/MX version as well as the more sedate 500 tourer. The power output of yours could be in the same ball park, and if you've got a beefed-up the bottom end to cope, it sounds like you're winning.  :)

A.

I actually chickened out because I ran out of smooth road! Haha.
It had some left in the tank, I'm sure she'd reach the ton this thing but if feels like you're doing double! Haha
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Reply #75 on: June 26, 2022, 11:36:30 am
Last night I popped up the barrel and flicked out the base gasket. It wasn't actually that simple. It was stuck on there like it was going to outlast religion. I won't use Permatex Aviation again! It's rock hard in winter.

Anyway I let the RTV ultra copper silicone set overnight and run a compression test this morning.
It bumped it up to 130psi from 120psi previously. These competition cams dropped the dynamic compression down from 160psi.



3-way adjustable crank pinion is still in transit from Hitchcocks. There's been a delay with postage but should be here early next week. I'm hoping with the 3dg cam advance will clean up the idle vacuum, and a little bump in compression it will restore a little torque and bottom end by shifting the curve a little earlier. Advice from the man Ace-Cafe himself.

Should have it installed in the next few days.
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Reply #76 on: July 13, 2022, 12:18:38 pm
Update.

2 base gaskets installed. Compression is 145-150psi now instead of 165-170.
Bit safer  for our fuel. Previously
Price "R" Cams back in.
The Hitchcocks racing cams were a hell of a lot of fun, but just didn't behave well enough for a street bike. Wouldn't idle well and would get a lot of reversion into the airbox if you rode it around like a Nanna.

Installed the Dayton Velona 80mm Speedo. What a trick bit of gear this is. Since the "mode" and "select" buttons are under the unit where you can't get to them once its mounted in the Nacelle. I folded up a neat little staino panel for the remote "mode" and "set" waterproof buttons underneath the right hand side. Its got some good features.
Km/h & Mp/h. Tacho, Max Speed, Max RPM, Trip 1 & 2, ODO, Redline/Shift Light. Speedo drive is a direct bolt into the existing speedo drive. Tacho pulses wires straight into the Pazon Electronic igntion. Was a fiddly job but well worth it.

Next one the list was whipping up a little temporary mid pipe section to mount the 02 sensor for the AFR gauge.
It's a KOSO Mini 4 AFR gauge. Has a range of 12 to 17. Which is more than enough for tuning a carburetor.  What brought this on is because my local Dyno guy won't touch my bike since its Carbureted and its kick start. Next closest Dyno is 4 hours away. So I'll just do it myself. With the Digital speedo and the AFR. Jetting should be a lot easier with some extra numbers to take on board.
I didn't get to test it all out. It was getting late and I didn't want to upset the neighbors.










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Yinzer

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Reply #77 on: July 14, 2022, 05:02:22 am
Next one the list was whipping up a little temporary mid pipe section to mount the 02 sensor for the AFR gauge.

Most bungs for A/F sensors are less than 8" from the exhaust flange unless the sensor has a built in heater.
Not sure about Koso.

I did the same thing on a car once and got mostly OK but sometimes erratic readings. 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 05:19:04 am by Yinzer »
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1998 Iron Bullet 500 (Shared bike)
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #78 on: July 14, 2022, 09:47:33 am
Most bungs for A/F sensors are less than 8" from the exhaust flange unless the sensor has a built in heater.
Not sure about Koso.

I did the same thing on a car once and got mostly OK but sometimes erratic readings.

I since bit the Bullet and chose function over fashion and flush welded the bung in the first straight section of the header.

It would detect wide open throttle but nothing under 3500rpm.

The bung is now about 8.5" from the head, just after 90dg bend finishes.

It doesn't have a built in heater. It's range is from 11 to 17.
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Yinzer

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Reply #79 on: July 16, 2022, 12:34:52 pm
I since bit the Bullet and chose function over fashion

Tuning with them is like cheating.
I like them but take them back off when I'm satisfied and use the blanking plug.
What kind of numbers are you getting?

I remember spending hours modifying needles to clean up the lean spots at partial throttle.
It takes a lot of patience.  ;)
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #80 on: July 16, 2022, 12:45:11 pm


So I moved the 02 sensor in the recommended location. Unfortunately I had to choose function over fashion this time.
But this time round I was getting a lot more consistent and accurate readings.

No AFR would register at idle. But as soon as the throttle was cracked it would come to life. But tuning the slow circuit is straight forward with Pilot jet sizes. Which I've jumped from 20 to 25.  The mixture screw is 2-3/4 turns out on the sweet spot bordering the limit. But I feel 22.5 will be spot on will get it to 2 turns out.

What I've found is this engine likes the AFR to be at 12. Anything past 12.6 it starts to detonate at higher rpm. But with this AFR kit its lowest/richest reading is 12.2  and Highest/leanest is 17.2 being a narrow band 02 sensor.
It will display "R" for rich anything below 12.2. But, It's still been very helpful because I'm tuning to the cusp of "R" to 12.2 with good results.

Since moving the 02 sensor its been reading the higher RPM range 4000-5000 more accurately. And I've actually had to go up main jet sizes. Currently at a 200 main jet again. Which the AFR still creeps up around 12.6-12.8 and pings between 4000-5000rpm. Not a lot, but enough so you have to roll the throttle back and then ease it on. So I think a 210 main will do the trick.

Needle and needle jet still feels like its on the money. P4 and the 6DH4 2nd clip from the top. The AFR stays steady at 12.1 rolling up to 1/2 and 3/4 throttle. After 3/4 is where it will ping.

Plugs are looking very good. Left is the 200 main pull. Right is the one I've been using all the time. It's wet because on the way home the Negative wire on the coil ring terminal broke. So she sucked in a bit of fuel. I was stuck on the side of the road for a while till I got a lift home. But 15 minutes later it was repaired and away again.



Next test outing I feel this jetting should be pretty well spot on.
22.5 Pilot
P4 Needle Jet
6DH4 Needle 2nd clip position from the top
210 Main.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 12:51:18 pm by StreetKleaver »
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #81 on: July 16, 2022, 12:49:19 pm
Tuning with them is like cheating.
I like them but take them back off when I'm satisfied and use the blanking plug.
What kind of numbers are you getting?

I remember spending hours modifying needles to clean up the lean spots at partial throttle.
It takes a lot of patience.  ;)

I come from a 2 stroke Motocross racing background. I could tune a smoker carburetor with my eyes closed. They respond differently and more easier to tune in my experience.

This definitely feels like cheating. Takes a lot of the plug chops and trial and error out of it. As the above post mentions it seems to like the 12 AFR mark. If you get closer to 13 the plugs get a little too light in colour. Old engines must like a drink, and being air cooled a richer AFR isn't a bad thing.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #82 on: July 17, 2022, 10:03:12 am
Well it's done! Huge relief.
Jetted and tuned the strongest it will ever be.

Final jetting as follows.

220 Main
P4 Needle Jet
6DH4 Needle, 2nd Clip from the top
25 Pilot.
Air mixture screw 2-3/4 turns out.

Ignition timing set at the base set timing.
No detonation at all throttle positions.
Just a tiny bit of pinging short shifting and lugging it on at 2800rpm.

Tried the 22.5 pilot, it was just a little too small. 25 was on the money.

Tried a 210 main and still was just creeping up to the 12.5 AFR zone where pinging could happen.

220 Main stayed a stable a AFR of 12.2.
All throttle positions at 12 to 12.2 AFR.

At cruising 100km/hr with the 220 Main jet it feels like it's effortless. Smaller main jets it felt like it was just labouring that little bit.

Spark plugs are coming out chocolatey brown.

Very happy with the result and wasn't intending it to be a Ton Up machine. But it is.

Just wanted a strong street machine that was comfortable sitting at speeds on the Highway with some reliability upgrades.

Impressed!
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #83 on: July 17, 2022, 12:00:07 pm
StreetKleaver - Very nice work! Great craftsmanship on that air filter cannister fabrication. Thanks for the in-depth write up, it'll be of benefit to others.

That Koso AFR seems a good tool. Is there a minimum distance for the sensor bung? It looks like you ended up at maybe 8" out, would closer have any benefit?

Koso has this unit for about $100 USD, is it the one you used?
https://kosonorthamerica.com/product/mini-air-fuel-ratio-meter-copy/

Again - great work! - ACR -
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Adrian II

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Reply #84 on: July 17, 2022, 02:59:59 pm
I can't interest you in my spare VM28 Mikarb, then?  ;D

Seriously, very good work there, really sorted motor, fast and beefed-up to cope.

Now get yourself a 350 and see what you can do with that!  ;)

A.
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Mr_84

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Reply #85 on: July 17, 2022, 08:46:53 pm
This has been an awesome topic to follow , different cams , carbs air intakes , exhaust changes , bigger valves , changing compression , backwards and forwards through the parts in search of the ultimate power. Thanks for your efforts and documenting it all on this one thread so it's easy to find, now the rest of us can build hot rods and try to catch up haha , cheers mate


StreetKleaver

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Reply #86 on: July 17, 2022, 10:58:58 pm
StreetKleaver - Very nice work! Great craftsmanship on that air filter cannister fabrication. Thanks for the in-depth write up, it'll be of benefit to others.

That Koso AFR seems a good tool. Is there a minimum distance for the sensor bung? It looks like you ended up at maybe 8" out, would closer have any benefit?

Koso has this unit for about $100 USD, is it the one you used?
https://kosonorthamerica.com/product/mini-air-fuel-ratio-meter-copy/

Again - great work! - ACR -

Thanks mate. I'm a bit different in my methods. A lot of it comes from my Hotrod background and racing Dirtbikes.

Thats not the same model as mine. But the AFR range is the same range at 12.1 to 16.9.

Mine I got from digital-speedos.co.uk
Mainly because shipping from US is absolute robbery.
Mine is a Koso Mini 4 AFR. But exactly the same features.

Recommended was 8" from the head, mine was in a neat spot of about 8.5".

Doesn't read at idle (900rpm) which isn't a big deal if you know to set your pilot correctly. As soon as the throttle is cracked it will read.

So I've found with my engine it likes a AFR of 12.1 to 12.2. Which is just the rich limit of the AFR gauge. But still I could jet/tune accurately to it. Other engines may vary. I assume UCE engines would be leaner around 13.

My method was to get it to display between "R" and 12.2. "R" being 12.1.
Anything lower that 12 will display "---".

A wide band setup would be easier. Although nearly triple the price. But I managed to get the result I wanted. In all it took me about a day. And only 3 spark plugs. Which all came out on the side electrode and insulator and nice tan/chocolate brown.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #87 on: July 18, 2022, 12:06:25 am
I can't interest you in my spare VM28 Mikarb, then?  ;D

Seriously, very good work there, really sorted motor, fast and beefed-up to cope.

Now get yourself a 350 and see what you can do with that!  ;)

A.

I actually know a guy who is a Royal Enfield mechanic and raced them for decades. In very bare bones bombed up trim his 350s will easy be Ton Up. Even short stroked them to get them to rev.

His 500s were 115mph.

I'd like to do a fully fledged traditional 350 Cafe racer. One day.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #88 on: July 18, 2022, 12:12:24 am
This has been an awesome topic to follow , different cams , carbs air intakes , exhaust changes , bigger valves , changing compression , backwards and forwards through the parts in search of the ultimate power. Thanks for your efforts and documenting it all on this one thread so it's easy to find, now the rest of us can build hot rods and try to catch up haha , cheers mate

Thanks mate! Well there's some reference material for your build as it progresses too.

Definitely give the 6DH4 Needle a go in our part of the globe. It's got a shorter straight section of the needle before taper starts. It's a recommended needle profile for a 500cc single and  corresponds perfect to these "R" cams.

I wouldn't say it's the ultimate speed machine, it will do "The Ton" given the road is long enough to wind it past 5000rpm. But it can do it.

But its a very strong, capable street machine. Purs along at 100km/hr at 3700rpm with plenty left in the tank to slot her down to 4th, open it up and overtake!  8)

Next endeavour is suspension with cartridge emulators and stiffer springs for the forks. Unsure what rear shocks to use. Also brakes will be getting a look at with new stainless rims.
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Adrian II

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Reply #89 on: July 18, 2022, 12:27:04 am
NJB shocks in the UK have a good reputation and are noticeably cheaper than Hagons. No idea what your shipping costs would be, though.

http://njbshocks.co.uk/#top

A.
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #90 on: July 18, 2022, 12:45:00 am
NJB shocks in the UK have a good reputation and are noticeably cheaper than Hagons. No idea what your shipping costs would be, though.

http://njbshocks.co.uk/#top

A.

Thanks Mate. I'll check them out. Shipping costs from the UK is pretty reasonable. I tend to get parts from there India and Europe these days.
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TonyVanda

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Reply #91 on: July 19, 2022, 09:58:11 am
I've used Ikon shocks on a few bikes and currently have them on my 87 Bullet 350 and they are great. No bone jarrer ever. They are located and made in Australia (Albury) and very easy to deal with.
REgards
Tv
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Adrian II

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Reply #92 on: July 19, 2022, 12:58:09 pm
Cheaper shipping costs, then! Are they available fully-shrouded, or open springs only?

Here are the NJBs I bought for my Redditch 350, though a locally manufactured product may well sway your choice.



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StreetKleaver

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Reply #93 on: August 21, 2022, 12:40:06 am
Hey guys. Sorry I've been a bit slack lately. I haven't updated for a while and a fair bit has happened.

Here she is in her current "iteration"





So my quest for my desired power delivery with cams didn't stop there.
I was never happy with the noise that the Price "R" cams created. I found that something is going on with the bushes. They are made from the Electra X cams reground with steel bushes. When the lash is adjusted and tappets set one of cams tightens up on the base circle and then go slack again. Which tells me one of the cam wheels has a bit of run out. It creates a fair bit of racket when the engine is running clacking away. Louder than usual. Later down the track I'll replace the bushes with phosphor bronze jobs.

The Price "R" cams are very good in power delivery. But were still tapering off by 3500rpm. In my engine configuration they are similar to stock Iron Barrel cams, just they pull further through the midrange and gentle taper off after 3500rpm. Which was close, but not quite what I wanted. Along with the noise they created did concern me.

So my last stab was the Hitchcocks 200180 Performance cams.
Finally! These were it!
They have the same lift to the Price "R" cams, just a little more duration and later inlet valve closing event.
Their characteristics would describe similar to the old Redditch Bullet power delivery.
It lost its off idle thumping bottom end but these cams come on around 2000rpm and don't quit pulling till 4500-5000rpm. It allowed the engine to rev easier and once you get going from a stand still. You don't notice the bottom end loss.
Only its noticeable from a dead standstill.

The HMC 200180 Cams are the 2nd row from the bottom.



Working from the top down.
Standard Indian Cams.
Price "R" Cams.
HMC 200180 Performance Cams.
HMC 90023 Race Cams.

For jetting, I turned it up a notch.
This time around I used the heated 02 sensor my GT535, wired up a simple circuit to turn the heater on and off. I found that with the heater on compared to the un-heated 02 supplied with the AFR kit I'd get better consistent readings at idle and lower throttle openings.
Packed a bag and headed out to my favorite stretch of road. Ironically in front of my old Motocross track I used to race at and ride religiously 20 years ago!

I resorted to a older method I would use tuning main jets on my race bikes. It's more of a "seat of pants" method but with some recorded metrics.

1. Set a point A and Point B (start and finish line)
2. Stop watch in my left hand, in 3rd gear, rolling along at 55km/h which was the speed/rpm the motor would accelerate away from when the throttle is cracked wide open.
3. Hit the timer as I went over Point A, simultaneously pinning the throttle wide open.
4. Finishing at point B, stop the timer and shut the throttle.

I tested each main jet with 3 runs and recorded the average.

With the new Digital Daytona Speedo. It's go some handy features. Such as maximum speed and maximum rpm reached.
So that was 3 metrics I could record.
Elapsed time with the handheld sports stopwatch. Max Speed (Km/h), Max Rpm.
With also the AFR gauge showing me what was going on per main jet change.

All this can be done, just via stopwatch. Or even using a mobile phone app with a GPS signal speedometer. But depending where you are in the world. Aren't entirely accurate.
20 years ago, all I used was a stopwatch and plug chops.

As my friend the Mikuni guru would say. There's only one right main jet. The rest are wrong.
Here's the results as follows. The table implies the above statement.



AFR readings were 12.5 in the higher RPM/Road speeds. Richer 12.3-12.4 lower rpm speeds. Which is good thing at lower travel speeds to keep the air cooled engine cooler.

My experience is with Mikuni and Keihin Carburetors.
Keihin were more "set and forget" where as Mikuni were a little more sensitive but performed that little bit better. My Aussie mates who raced these things tell me the poor old Amal was the first thing to be thrown in the bin when it came to performance. On went the Mikuni round slide. Sorry to say to my English friends!  ;D

On my bench is a 20 tooth front drive sprocket and a new 38 tooth drum sprocket. just waiting on the X-Ring chain to arrive. Then all that will go on.
The bike will easily pull the 20 tooth, it happily revs to 6000rpm with the 19 tooth in top gear if you let it/punish it.

Next tangent is I have a Pre 55 Redditch frame sitting there waiting for me. Build a new set of wheels with stainless rims. Get all this running gear into the Redditch frame with a complete re-spray.
Cheers!

Ben
« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 12:43:34 am by StreetKleaver »
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #94 on: September 02, 2022, 08:23:07 am
Small update. But it may be a controversial one along with topics similar to Engine, Primary Drive and Gearbox oil, Tyre pressures and so on.

I've installed a 20 tooth drive sprocket and new rear sprocket drum along with a DID 530 VX3 "X-Ring" Chain.
Now before anyone gets excited saying O-ring chains don't fit and will rob precious horsepower. Most of which the average rider won't notice the power loss through friction on a torquey 4 stroke and usually its around 1hp with a typical O-ring.
On a small capacity 2 stroke? YES. I always ran HD plain chains on my 125cc motocross race bikes. 

Anyway, X-ring chains are the next step forward. They are slimmer in profile. The standard 530 Heavy Duty chain measures 22.1mm wide compared to the DID 530 X-ring chain measures at 23.5mm. Bugger all difference!
Due to the X profile of the O-ring, there is a lot less contact area on the side plates. Which is less drag. Compared to O-rings, they are compressed and under preload by the side plates along with more contact area on the side plates.
You can even feel how free it is while handling the X-ring chain with your hands compared to a typical O-ring chain.
The X rings act like 2 lipped seals and keep its internal grease in and dust/dirt etc out. So a good advancement!
Another bonus. It's gold.  8)

Next on to the 20 tooth front drive sprocket. Will it pull it? On a standard Bullet. Most likely not.

On my Build? Yep!

I even "checked" by the appropriate test to see if it will wind out in top gear. I got it to 5200rpm and backed off. So that's a yes!
With the whole configuration of this build now its a excellent touring machine. It purrs along at 3600rpm in 5th gear effortlessly sitting on a 100km/hr (62mph).
At 3600rpm its sitting "on the cam" in the meat of its power delivery with the Hitchcocks Performance cams. Which was my ultimate goal.
It's now a excellent highway cruiser without losing it's street performance fun. It's exactly where I wanted it to be!

Next is suspension and brakes!



Chain case clearance. Gearbox Top. Outer Chain case Bottom.




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Warwick

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Reply #95 on: September 02, 2022, 12:17:57 pm
Beautiful bike! Why no RE badge on the tank?
2007 Bullet, 1999 Lightning, 2010 Honda VFR1200f, 2019 Interceptor, 2007 Kwaka GPX250R


StreetKleaver

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Reply #96 on: September 02, 2022, 12:41:56 pm
Beautiful bike! Why no RE badge on the tank?

Thanks mate.

Previous owner damaged the original tank by dropping something on it. Replaced it with a aftermarket tank. Why it doesn't have the logo.

I can get a decal but eventually I'll repaint the whole bike. Same colour scheme though.
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Mr_84

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Reply #97 on: September 02, 2022, 09:30:56 pm
From here it looks like your compression damping is to soft and the rebound damping is to quick on ya shocks  ;D



StreetKleaver

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Reply #98 on: September 03, 2022, 09:02:03 am
From here it looks like your compression damping is to soft and the rebound damping is to quick on ya shocks  ;D

Also known as.... Stock worn out suspension! Haha

Soon my friend!
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Reply #99 on: September 03, 2022, 09:37:57 am
How do you find cold starting? What's your drill? What choke jet are you using?

I'm finding bother getting my 612 bullet (in a similar state of tune, same carb) dialled in for reliable cold start. Choke seems to make little difference, it'll fire up on choke for 2 or 3 revolutions then cut out and give nothing after that. I land up booting it over with the throttle slightly cracked and it'll eventually pick up and run. It starts more easily if i richen the air screw but then idles badly. I have a 32.5 pilot jet which is a lot bigger than yours but my understanding of the starter enricher is that doesn't really come into play when the choke is on? I might try dropping that and see if there's any effect.

I suspect ignition timing is a bit of an issue, I'm running it retarded a couple of degrees back from standard because it pinks quite badly under load otherwise (compression calculated at 10.03:1) but "by the book" more retarded should be better for cold start. Yet it seems to start more easily with it at standard setting. The solution to that might be to restrict the travel of the auto-advance unit so it's a bit more advanced at idle but doesn't advance as far at higher revs. Maybe with a pan-head machine screw tapped into the points backing plate overlapping the "square hole" slightly then filed square but it seems inelegant.

TM32-1
220 main
389 P6 needle, 2nd from top
4.0 slide
40 starter
J8 Jet needle
32.5 pilot


Mr_84

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Reply #100 on: September 03, 2022, 11:05:01 am
My 505cc has similar to Streetkleavers settings

TM32

Pilot 25
Main 220
Needle 6DH4 2nd clip from top
Needle jet P4
Starter jet stock
Slide stock

99% 1st kick cold or hot


stinkwheel

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Reply #101 on: September 03, 2022, 11:20:36 am
Looking like a smaller pilot jet would be a good starting point, might explain a slight bogging coming off 1/4 throttle in town too.


Mr_84

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Reply #102 on: September 03, 2022, 12:23:35 pm
I would also look at the needle and needle jet , at 1/4 throttle the pilot isn’t doing much.

The Findings from StreetKleavers endeavours worked for me , when my engine was stock I was using
25 pilot
195 main
P6 needle jet
5FP17 needle (stock )
The bike performed flawlessly with this setup but when I built my 505cc with H’s large valves and Price R cams it was not so good

I would try as well

P4 needle jet
6HD4 needle


stinkwheel

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Reply #103 on: September 03, 2022, 12:58:15 pm
Although starting is really the main issue so the needle and main shouldn't really be in play there?

i suppose the best thing, which I've been avoiding, would be to get it on a dyno. Get the main and timing set right and work from there.


StreetKleaver

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Reply #104 on: September 17, 2022, 10:44:08 pm
I've now tried some smaller starting jet sizes. The choke aperture is too small for the bike to run on the chock circuit alone.
So the stock start jet is back in it which is a 60.

So I've been using Mr_84's technique and using the choke as a "engine primer."

Choke on, kill switch off.
Massage the engine over with the decomp level 2 or 3 times (I haven't figured the magic amount yet, any more than 4 is too much fuel)
TDC
Key on.
Big kick.

90% of the time it starts first kick.
If it doesn't start first kick. 2nd Kick is usually the winner for me.

I found when I was jetting the carb with the AFR gauge that when the engine was cold, it would read a 14 AFR. Which is not much leaner than its needs when at operating temperature which is 12.5
So the initial first gulps of fuel and air need to be richer just to get it to fire then she's right after that.
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Karl Childers

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Reply #105 on: September 18, 2022, 12:08:40 am
I use the same technique with mine. When it had the Amal I'd put the choke on and use the tickler till the gas flowed out of it then kick it through a few times with the ignition off to draw some fuel into the cylinder, then, key on and it would start one kick. With the Mikuni that's on it now I do pretty much the same, enrichener  lever down several kicks with the spark off and I get the same results.


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Reply #106 on: October 07, 2022, 11:00:34 am
Another little minor creation.

There's Bar End Weights and Bar End Mirrors. Never both together as one or that look any good. So I made my own.
These big chonky heavy boys are from cheap Alliexpress. Nothing but a big slug of steel.

Pictured next to them are some spare adjustable 3in flat mirrors. Currently I had convex glass mirrors on. Why they worked well, cars and traffic looked like they were a lot further away.



What I ended up with. The stems are made of 3 bolts. The socket is the head of a allen cap screw. I drilled the hex out, then milled a flat base. Drilled a M6 through hole so the adjustable mirror could bolt to it.
The stem is a M8 stainless bolt. Heated and bent into shape. The base is a M10 button head allen. Drilled the hex out as well as filed flat edges so a spanner could be used.
Finally drilled and tapped the Bar end weights. All sand blasted and painted with 2k Gloss black paint.







They came up a treat and work very well. None of my body is blocking the view and they don't vibrate at all. The handlebars don't vibrate at all now either. I took it on a 40min long ride afterwards. Usually my right hand get tingly after 15mins. Nothing! Super happy with the result.  8)
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Reply #107 on: October 07, 2022, 11:14:41 am
No on to my next bigger update.

Acquired a Pre-55 Redditch frame. It's in need of repair. The down tube is missing. But I have a spare section there. Luckily I know a Boilermaker (me)  ::)
I had a brief look over it this afternoon with the tape measure. There's only minor subtle differences. Mounting points are the same.
Mainly the rear end of the frame and swing arm is slightly narrower. And the obvious whopping big bolt above the gearbox on the Indian frame.

The main purpose for doing this is to have a Pseudo British Bullet. In Australia it can be registered with cheaper Historic/Vintage rego when the time comes.
I'll get the flat toolboxes and a LH to RH shifter conversion, but that's the extent of the changes. The rest of the bike will be a complete swap once the repairs are done and the frame is sandblasted and painted.

For now I have to suss out what's the best plan of attack to repair it. From the looks how the frame is joined at the tube sockets are heated and then the tubes are inserted and plug welded into place. From that era the welds on those joins look like Oxy/Acetylene brazed. No big deal. It's something I can work with. :)




 

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Adrian II

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Reply #108 on: October 07, 2022, 02:45:34 pm
AFAIK the headstock casting was brazed on. When the frame design changed for the '56 models Redditch briefly had all-welded steel headstocks with a bracing tube underneath (at least on some 350 Bullets), but they reverted to brazed-on malleable iron castings pretty quickly!

Your best bet is probably to make some kind of jig to line everything up spot-on, ideally built around a good frame of exactly the same type, though I suspect an Indian Bullet frame will be close enough. Usually there is no problem fitting Indian Bullet engines and gearboxes (including 5 speed) into Redditch Bullet or twin frames. Likewise I have seen Redditch twin engines in Indian Bullet frames.

You should be able to re-use your engine plates front and rear as well as the centre stand, though it MIGHT be an idea to fit new rear plates if the holes for the centre stand spindle are badly worn. Building up the wear on the old ones with weld and re-drilling sounds like it's within your capabilities, though.

Bearing in mind the '49-53 frame predates the casquette headlamp, will you be looking for a separate top yoke and Lucas-oid headlamp to suit?

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


stinkwheel

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Reply #109 on: October 07, 2022, 03:06:10 pm
Really common to braze frames on Brit bikes. Less heat being banged into the ends of the tubes means it's less likely to affect the hardness/temper of the steel and create stress risers.

Anyone who follows Michael Waller on youtube (who is currently fabricating an otter-style trials frame from scratch around a 350 bullet engine) will undoubtedly be disgusted by the apparent ease with which he casually bronze-TIGs his chromoly tube frames together.


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Reply #110 on: October 07, 2022, 11:15:55 pm
AFAIK the headstock casting was brazed on. When the frame design changed for the '56 models Redditch briefly had all-welded steel headstocks with a bracing tube underneath (at least on some 350 Bullets), but they reverted to brazed-on malleable iron castings pretty quickly!

Your best bet is probably to make some kind of jig to line everything up spot-on, ideally built around a good frame of exactly the same type, though I suspect an Indian Bullet frame will be close enough. Usually there is no problem fitting Indian Bullet engines and gearboxes (including 5 speed) into Redditch Bullet or twin frames. Likewise I have seen Redditch twin engines in Indian Bullet frames.

You should be able to re-use your engine plates front and rear as well as the centre stand, though it MIGHT be an idea to fit new rear plates if the holes for the centre stand spindle are badly worn. Building up the wear on the old ones with weld and re-drilling sounds like it's within your capabilities, though.

I'll build a little fixture to hold everything where it needs to be. Even the old string line will do. I do have a laser setup for this kind of work, I used to build hotrod frames with various options of front/rear suspension and engine + gearbox configurations. Most of which were reproduction A model Ford frames.
Bike frames a relatively easy. In the past I've modified Japanese V twin frames that Twin spar backbone frames to single tubes and gusseted them for use of different tanks. One day I'll post up some past projects I've worked on.

Really common to braze frames on Brit bikes. Less heat being banged into the ends of the tubes means it's less likely to affect the hardness/temper of the steel and create stress risers.

Anyone who follows Michael Waller on youtube (who is currently fabricating an otter-style trials frame from scratch around a 350 bullet engine) will undoubtedly be disgusted by the apparent ease with which he casually bronze-TIGs his chromoly tube frames together.

Bearing in mind the '49-53 frame predates the casquette headlamp, will you be looking for a separate top yoke and Lucas-oid headlamp to suit?

A.

At this stage I'll keep what's already there. Since there's a lot more wiring to try and hide compared to the older girls with the Digital Speedo Etc so I'll keep in Post 53 Casquette Headlamp surround. I might change the switch blocks and relocate some turn signals. But Nothing too drastic.
I'll swap the Bubble Lid Toolboxes to Flat Lids and may even fabricate up a upswept 50s style silencer. But apart from that. What you see now is how it'll stay. Keeping to my "Neo Traditional" thing I have going on. It's not traditional, but its not "modern custom" either. I do like the older vintage styling and my inspiration comes from that Era.

Really common to braze frames on Brit bikes. Less heat being banged into the ends of the tubes means it's less likely to affect the hardness/temper of the steel and create stress risers.

Anyone who follows Michael Waller on youtube (who is currently fabricating an otter-style trials frame from scratch around a 350 bullet engine) will undoubtedly be disgusted by the apparent ease with which he casually bronze-TIGs his chromoly tube frames together.

I'll be doing exactly that too. TIG Brazing. For years I dragged around a Oxy/Acetylene set and barely used it. Prior to moving back to Queensland from NSW I sold it. TIG brazing puts in a lot less heat that and it's far more controllable.
There's a couple of little fittings on this bike I've Tig brazed up. The rocker feed pipes and my "Bunn Breather" style setup. Although there's a particular filler rod I use which is 15% silver. Any higher Silver content and it doesn't play ball.
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Reply #111 on: October 10, 2022, 03:00:24 am
A little update.

The frame is a Redditch 500 Twin frame which send to Mayfairs (Royal Enfield Dealer) in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia in 1952.

The repair section is from a 1949 Bullet 350. Also sent to Mayfairs.
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Reply #112 on: October 16, 2022, 11:25:26 am
A little change over the weekend. Swapped the brown seat for a larger.
Luckily the hinge I fabbed up worked and only needed one hole slotting. Spring mounts all in the same spots. A lot more comfortable!
The Brown seat the padding would dig into may hamstrings after a short while and became uncomfortable.






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Raymond

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Reply #113 on: October 16, 2022, 03:45:59 pm
Classy!
In the garage:
2007 Kawasaki W800 SE Polly
1978 Yamaha XS650 Miss November
2003 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Deluxe


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Reply #114 on: October 16, 2022, 06:39:43 pm
I have that same seat on a different motorcycle, that style has been around since the 1920's and for good reason, they are comfortable and practical. They get even better as the break in and for mine I have a sheepskin I put on it for long rides, it's amazing the difference that sheepskin makes in warm or cold weather.

I like the engraving, did you get that custom done?


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Reply #115 on: October 16, 2022, 10:10:46 pm
I have that same seat on a different motorcycle, that style has been around since the 1920's and for good reason, they are comfortable and practical. They get even better as the break in and for mine I have a sheepskin I put on it for long rides, it's amazing the difference that sheepskin makes in warm or cold weather.

I like the engraving, did you get that custom done?

I was a little reluctant at first. Originally I ordered a Large Lycette seat but India post lost it. The bike had the small Lycette seat whennI bought it but the steel frame underneath used to dig into my backside! So I went the brown seat. It looked better but the actual dished area wasn't that big.

Its just ordered from Ebay in India. They actual made it to order. Thr leather, stitching and engraving is top notch. But the paint on the seat pan isn't. They must of wrapped it up for shipping when the paint hadn't fully dried. So there's a plastic bag texture on it.

Apart from that. Everything else is good. I had to fabricate the hinge. Thr hardware they send is for the UCE frame.
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Reply #116 on: October 16, 2022, 11:25:20 pm
Yeah, those small lycette type seats are pretty uncomfortable over distances. They are more meant for trials bikes where you only sit down for riding between sections (or if you're about to fail a section). The full-size lycette type ones are pretty comfy once they've broken in a bit. My record was a 450 mile day on one (with sheepskin). The springs can be pretty iffy too, I landed up replacing all mine with proper upholstery springs which cost nearly as much as the rest of the seat.

As you found, the Indian paintwork leaves a lot to be desired. I've found paintowrk on Indian parts to be fairly poor quality and indescriminate in its application. I think they dip a lot of stuff. I bought a trials tank that was also painted on the inside (with petrol soluable paint!). At least they put some on though.

I regard Indian paint as transport paint. It's to get the part to you without loads of rust on it, they need painting properly once they arrive.


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Reply #117 on: October 17, 2022, 11:10:00 am
Size comparison compared to my old brown seat. Got to ride it today briefly until the rain hit. It's a little firm in the foam, but should soften up. Feels a lot more comfortable.



Fitted my old brown saddle seat to my mates Tribute Black. He's a bit shorter and is loving the lower seat height.
2 fine examples of 2 different generations of 500s!

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Reply #118 on: October 18, 2022, 12:44:00 pm
Great topic

It's the first time I've had a minute to sit down and read it through, love the ideas and touches you have done.

I have also been into hot rods and the scene for many years, I have just finished my build and hopefully get so riding in soon, looking forward to seeing what comes next.
Oh my dad was one of the original guys that used to frequent the Ace back in the day with mates on Vincent's

 Slappy


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Reply #119 on: December 05, 2022, 12:06:08 am
So my quest for my desired power delivery with cams didn't stop there.
I was never happy with the noise that the Price "R" cams created. I found that something is going on with the bushes. They are made from the Electra X cams reground with steel bushes. When the lash is adjusted and tappets set one of cams tightens up on the base circle and then go slack again. Which tells me one of the cam wheels has a bit of run out. It creates a fair bit of racket when the engine is running clacking away. Louder than usual. Later down the track I'll replace the bushes with phosphor bronze jobs.

The Price "R" cams are very good in power delivery. But were still tapering off by 3500rpm. In my engine configuration they are similar to stock Iron Barrel cams, just they pull further through the midrange and gentle taper off after 3500rpm. Which was close, but not quite what I wanted. Along with the noise they created did concern me.

So my last stab was the Hitchcocks 200180 Performance cams.
Finally! These were it!
They have the same lift to the Price "R" cams, just a little more duration and later inlet valve closing event.
Their characteristics would describe similar to the old Redditch Bullet power delivery.
It lost its off idle thumping bottom end but these cams come on around 2000rpm and don't quit pulling till 4500-5000rpm. It allowed the engine to rev easier and once you get going from a stand still. You don't notice the bottom end loss.
Only its noticeable from a dead standstill.

The HMC 200180 Cams are the 2nd row from the bottom.



Working from the top down.
Standard Indian Cams.
Price "R" Cams.
HMC 200180 Performance Cams.
HMC 90023 Race Cams.

Cheers!

Ben
Happen to have checked the duration @.050” after setting running lash and what the lobe separation angle of the Hitchcock’s cams is as installed on the dots with standard pinion gear? Would be interesting to know duration at various lift points such as @.050”, .100” and .200” if possible. Thank you


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Reply #120 on: December 29, 2022, 08:05:52 am
Happen to have checked the duration @.050” after setting running lash and what the lobe separation angle of the Hitchcock’s cams is as installed on the dots with standard pinion gear? Would be interesting to know duration at various lift points such as @.050”, .100” and .200” if possible. Thank you

Sorry for the delay. I had to use a cam calculator.

HM Iron Barrel Competition 90023 Cams   
Inlet opens BTDC 50   
Inlet closes ABDC 70   
Duration 300   
Lift 0.420   
Centerline 100.00   
Overlap 90   
Seperation 102.50   
Ex Opens BBDC 70   
Ex Closes ATDC 40   
Duration 290   
Lift 0.395   
Centerline 105.00
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Reply #121 on: December 29, 2022, 10:45:47 am
So this point in time came sooner rather than later, which I was not expecting.
The Cylinder is worn out! Piston rings are still sealing at 165psi, but when I stripped the head off to pop on some valve guide seals. I gave the piston a wiggle and had 0.5mm of breathing room.

So the bore is done. That last light hone to get the new rings to bed in was the end of it. Especially being 535 +40 oversize.
Which concludes that venture.



So this is going full steam ahead. The Iron Barrel/ AVL Electra 535.
Should look something like this.

At this point I'm only collecting parts. Still waiting for some items to arrive. Here's what is in store for the Bullet.

***PLONK***







The Barrel (right) is new and the Domed piston is a used Hithchcocks Electra 535 Piston. Instead I'll be using a standard UCE GT535 flat top piston and shortening the Barrel instead to raise the compression.
Bonus is that the Electra Head uses the same valve springs as a UCE. So I can use the Hitchcocks competition valve springs. Still haven't decided on cams yet.

Crank will be a Earlier CDI Thunderbird/Machismo 350 crank. Which means I can still keep my current alternator and chain case setup with possibly the alternator spindle machined. Just it will be rebuild with a new UCE conrod and big end bearing. It also uses UCE oil filters. So quite a few things crossover.
All bottom end bearings will be replaced again in the crank cases. The 350 crank is already lighter around 8-9kgs compared to 10kgs. Then it will just need its balance factor set to suit the heavier 535 piston.

If any of you guys has followed my GT535 thread, I'll be taking this Bullet on a Similar path. Should be good fun and I'll make a thread in the AVL section too since it seems fitting for those guys too.
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Reply #122 on: December 29, 2022, 11:55:39 am
Sorry for the delay. I had to use a cam calculator.

HM Iron Barrel Competition 90023 Cams   
Inlet opens BTDC 50   
Inlet closes ABDC 70   
Duration 300   
Lift 0.420   
Centerline 100.00   
Overlap 90   
Seperation 102.50   
Ex Opens BBDC 70   
Ex Closes ATDC 40   
Duration 290   
Lift 0.395   
Centerline 105.00

Thanks for that info. You can just look at the lobes and tell they are not best suited for the street. Fat egg shape. Long duration, too much overlap. Definitely race upper rpm material. Really is worth looking into having cams made with specs suited for the particular build. So many variables with each bike and intended use and unfortunately not many off the shelf catalog cams as it stands. Just like in the automotive performance world many times a custom grind if possible is a better option. For road use I’d prefer shorter seat duration, good @.050” keeping the overlap within reason, with as much lift as you can fit.
I gather the HMC performance versions are a good option though, seems you are pretty pleased with them so far. Probably can’t go wrong with those. Will be watching your posts on the build.  8)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2022, 12:14:35 pm by 12many »


Adrian II

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Reply #123 on: December 29, 2022, 02:00:02 pm
Someone, somewhere may yet develop THE all-time magic cam profile for the 500 AVL lean burn engine. Put me down for a set when you get a batch ground. However, an off the (used parts) shelf solution which actually works incredibly well with these engines is the humble Redditch touring Bullet or "S" profile cam.

A.
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Reply #124 on: December 29, 2022, 05:35:46 pm
Thanks for that info. You can just look at the lobes and tell they are not best suited for the street. Fat egg shape. Long duration, too much overlap. Definitely race upper rpm material. Really is worth looking into having cams made with specs suited for the particular build. So many variables with each bike and intended use and unfortunately not many off the shelf catalog cams as it stands. Just like in the automotive performance world many times a custom grind if possible is a better option. For road use I’d prefer shorter seat duration, good @.050” keeping the overlap within reason, with as much lift as you can fit.
I gather the HMC performance versions are a good option though, seems you are pretty pleased with them so far. Probably can’t go wrong with those. Will be watching your posts on the build.  8)
I agree with your assessment.
Home of the Fireball 535 !


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Reply #125 on: December 29, 2022, 09:33:34 pm
Thanks for that info. You can just look at the lobes and tell they are not best suited for the street. Fat egg shape. Long duration, too much overlap. Definitely race upper rpm material. Really is worth looking into having cams made with specs suited for the particular build. So many variables with each bike and intended use and unfortunately not many off the shelf catalog cams as it stands. Just like in the automotive performance world many times a custom grind if possible is a better option. For road use I’d prefer shorter seat duration, good @.050” keeping the overlap within reason, with as much lift as you can fit.
I gather the HMC performance versions are a good option though, seems you are pretty pleased with them so far. Probably can’t go wrong with those. Will be watching your posts on the build.  8)

The HMC performance ones were fantastic what I was after. Still enough bottom.end for around town, but very strong midrange and top end.

They aren't too peaky. They start to sing from 2000rpm and sign off by 4500rpm. Which in my area is 80% highway work. Sitting at 3800rpm at 100km/hr.

At the time at purchasing cams, there wasn't much choice. A set from America was 3 times the cost a set from HMC due to shipping costs to Australia. I tried a set of Price R cams. They were very good but not quite there in the top end for what I was after. Also very noisey in the valve train compared to other 3. I'm yet to re-bush those and try again at a later date.

At the time only the racing set was on offer from HMC so I gave them a crack since the Performance set was on back order. Granted They were a lot of FUN once jetted. The thing was a absolute animal! Just not great for the street. Anything under 3500rpm it would get reversion and just not run nice at all. Definitley a racing/track only cam. I've since sold them on.

My GT535 on the other hand has very peaky HMC cams, but with tuning to other areas such as velocity stack length, exhaust length and gearing the engine is exactly where I wanted it. Pull off the bottom is smooth linear pull stronger than a standard GT535, come 3500rpm it pulls like a slapped race horse all the way to 5000rpm and tapers off to redline. Cracked 102mph/164kmh when in standard trim it could bearly break 80mph/130kmh.

I'm not a Googlegook techy, just research, trial and error which I find is most enjoyable. Been tuning my bikes this way for 25 years coming from a 2 stroke Motocross and Enduro racing background.
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Reply #126 on: December 29, 2022, 09:51:33 pm
The HMC performance ones were fantastic what I was after. Still enough bottom.end for around town, but very strong midrange and top end.

They aren't too peaky. They start to sing from 2000rpm and sign off by 4500rpm. Which in my area is 80% highway work. Sitting at 3800rpm at 100km/hr.

At the time at purchasing cams, there wasn't much choice. A set from America was 3 times the cost a set from HMC due to shipping costs to Australia. I tried a set of Price R cams. They were very good but not quite there in the top end for what I was after. Also very noisey in the valve train compared to other 3. I'm yet to re-bush those and try again at a later date.

At the time only the racing set was on offer from HMC so I gave them a crack since the Performance set was on back order. Granted They were a lot of FUN once jetted. The thing was a absolute animal! Just not great for the street. Anything under 3500rpm it would get reversion and just not run nice at all. Definitley a racing/track only cam. I've since sold them on.

My GT535 on the other hand has very peaky HMC cams, but with tuning to other areas such as velocity stack length, exhaust length and gearing the engine is exactly where I wanted it. Pull off the bottom is smooth linear pull stronger than a standard GT535, come 3500rpm it pulls like a slapped race horse all the way to 5000rpm and tapers off to redline. Cracked 102mph/164kmh when in standard trim it could bearly break 80mph/130kmh.

I'm not a Googlegook techy, just research, trial and error which I find is most enjoyable. Been tuning my bikes this way for 25 years coming from a 2 stroke Motocross and Enduro racing background.

Nicely put. Thanks! 🙏


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Reply #127 on: December 29, 2022, 10:37:41 pm
Ben,

I notice the valve heads are looking a bit proud of the combustion chamber of the AVL head. A common thing with these cylinder head is that the bottom edge of the valve seat protrude into the combustion chamber by about 1mm. It's a good idea to cut the seat back so that the top of the seat is flush with the surface of the combustion chamber. Apart from being better practice, it will also improve valve head to piston crown clearance! If you remove the valves you will see what I'm on about.

Strangely enough, on most UCE cylinder heads the valve seats are pocketed to some extent, which is the exact opposite problem.

A.
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Reply #128 on: December 30, 2022, 12:50:52 am
Ben,

I notice the valve heads are looking a bit proud of the combustion chamber of the AVL head. A common thing with these cylinder head is that the bottom edge of the valve seat protrude into the combustion chamber by about 1mm. It's a good idea to cut the seat back so that the top of the seat is flush with the surface of the combustion chamber. Apart from being better practice, it will also improve valve head to piston crown clearance! If you remove the valves you will see what I'm on about.

Strangely enough, on most UCE cylinder heads the valve seats are pocketed to some extent, which is the exact opposite problem.

A.

I see that, and that will be a plan once I tackle the head work. Depending on the condition of the valves and guides they may even stay in there. The inlet seat needs to come out and some welding to build up the area since the seat is proud of the port. Typical Enfield stuff. This will all come later.
 
Got to tackle this bottom end first but the holidays treatment will be the frame swap. Bit of behind the welder making sparks!
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Reply #129 on: December 30, 2022, 03:15:31 pm
I just wonder if a slightly larger CGT535 Inlet valve could be persuaded to fit with a 535 valve seat, since you're planning to remove the original valve seat. This might require a valve head pocket machining in the piston crown, of course.

A.
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Reply #130 on: January 05, 2023, 10:18:56 am
I just wonder if a slightly larger CGT535 Inlet valve could be persuaded to fit with a 535 valve seat, since you're planning to remove the original valve seat. This might require a valve head pocket machining in the piston crown, of course.

A.

Unfortunately with this engine build this time I'm bound by using mostly genuine RE parts since Hitchcocks don't have much on offer for the Electra head. Which is fine. It gives me a goal of making a performance top end using mainly Genuine RE Parts. Crank will be lighter Machismo A350 crank rebuilt with a UCE rod kit. Also I'll run the GT535 piston and crank balance factor to suit it, shorten the Barrel for a 1mm squish. Machine in a decompressor valve and clean up the ports. Similar to what I did to the GT. But mostly all your suggestions ;)

The UCE Competition Valve Springs and collets can be used though. They are identical to the Electra springs. But the UCE vs Electra valves are just that little be shorter on the ends after the collet groove. But nearly identical in every other dimension. Even the Electra inlet Valve is only 1mm smaller vs the GT535 Inlet valve.

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Reply #131 on: January 05, 2023, 11:50:05 am
Given that you'll be adapting another push rod to suit I suspect you can adjust for that without upsetting the geometry too badly. On my current AVL hybrid with "S" cams (and the now unobtainable Samrat ½" stem tappets) I found that the AVL exhaust push rod was the right length for the hybrid's inlet.

Probably best to start that new thread over in the AVL section once your build begins.

A.
Grumpy Brit still seeking 500 AVL Bullet perfection! Will let you know if I get anywhere near...


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Reply #132 on: January 14, 2023, 11:09:21 pm
A update I forgot to mention.

To kick off New Years day I repaired the 1952 Redditch frame. The rear end of these frames are slightly narrower than their Indian counterparts by roughly 10mm.
The repair section is the backbone and down tube from my Indian frame. Which I'll also upgrade the steering stem bearings to a tapered roller bearing.
From the looks the 1952 frame had its down tube cut off to remove the original 500 Twin engine the bike once was out easier. I took the Redditch frame to work to try and "Un-Braze" the cut off section but that joint design stood the test of time. There are locating pins that were drilled out. But since the Steering stem is cast and porous, the Hearth brazing process really gets absorbed by the porous cast socket and really gets locked in there. I had 2 Oxy/Acetylene torches on the spare frame section glowing yellow. Would not let go!

It's why I had to use the the Indian section back bone and down tube. 



Since I'm doing everything from home I didn't have the luxury of using a frame table/Jig Bench. So the most time consuming job was setting everything correctly with the engine mounted then bracing it all prior to welding.
There was 8mm different between datum points I measured from on either frames. Which in fact when I finish molding the 2 frames together the measurements of my datums was smack bang in the middle. It's dead straight.
Which was achieved by levelling the frame horizontally X/Y. Then checking the back bone and down tube with a straight edge and angle gauge its plumb and vertical. String line to check everything is center as well as a laser line (no pictured)



There was about 2-3 hrs of setup for 10 minutes of welding. But the end result was perfect.
Used the existing gearbox Triangle. Re-marked the new hole centres and match drilled them. Trimmed them down and installed. There's just a temporary threaded rod in there for now for fitment testing.



Everything mounted. Amazing how well everything lined up for a frame that was built 52 years apart.
I can see why the Indians did change their frame slightly to speed up production. Their frame can be dropped vertically down straight on to a fully assembled engine. Where as the Redditch frame, you have to man handle swing and twist the frame around to get it mount up. I'd guess on the English production line the engine and gear box would of been separately installed and assembled in the frame.

Here's the finished result.





59 Club UK/Australia
Instagram : @modern_day_rocker


StreetKleaver

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Reply #133 on: January 14, 2023, 11:44:14 pm
I've started the Iron Barrel + Electra X hybrid thread over in the Electra X section since it's more appropriate over there. But as things progress in major stages I'll update in here.

Thread --->https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=34452.0
59 Club UK/Australia
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StreetKleaver

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Reply #134 on: April 23, 2023, 03:00:57 am
Been a while between updates!
The repaired Redditch 1952 frame is all finished and painted with some hardy industrial 2pk acrylic



5 speed LH to RH shift modification done. Brass bush spun up on the lathe and press fit.





I got the "4 speed" special primary chain cover. Which is just the 5 speed without the shifter shaft hole. But the sneaky buggers left out the fact it says "FOR ROYAL ENFIELD". Plugged it up with a weld and dressed it off.





More has been progressing with the Electra/Iron Barrel Hybrid. Can see it over in the Electra/AVL section. :)
59 Club UK/Australia
Instagram : @modern_day_rocker