Author Topic: Hitchock's carb conversion  (Read 13428 times)

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dickim

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Reply #75 on: November 19, 2021, 12:28:02 am
I hope we never get vehicle inspections in South Australia....

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viczena

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Reply #76 on: November 19, 2021, 02:24:23 pm
I have never been in australia, so my childish mind tells me, that everybody there is driving around with mad max style type of cars and bikes, somehow soldered together from crap from the ditch beside the road.

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viczena

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Reply #77 on: November 19, 2021, 02:40:31 pm
The united states can also be very funny.  I once rented an e-glide from eagleriders, and in a small town in california a police man told me, that i did not have a licence plate on the bike. I looked, and he was right. The company forgot it to install, and I did not look. I asked the police if I am allowed to move on, he mumbled something and left the scene.

Anywhere in Europe i would be nailed for that.
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Harley CVO EGlide, Boss Hoss 502, BMW 1200 RT, Harley Panhead , Harley Davidson &Marlboro Man Bike BD2, Royal Enfield Trials, KTM EXC 500. And some more.


Richard230

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Reply #78 on: November 19, 2021, 02:41:50 pm
I have never been in australia, so my childish mind tells me, that everybody there is driving around with mad max style type of cars and bikes, somehow soldered together from crap from the ditch beside the road.

And don't forget roasting roadkill on the barbie and drinking Fosters beer out of steel cans that they opened with their teeth.  ;)
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Richard230

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Reply #79 on: November 19, 2021, 02:42:57 pm
The united states can also be very funny.  I once rented an e-glide from eagleriders, and in a small town in california a police man told me, that i did not have a licence plate on the bike. I looked, and he was right. The company forgot it to install, and I did not look. I asked the police if I am allowed to move on, he mumbled something and left the scene.

Anywhere in Europe i would be nailed for that.

Our cops really hate paperwork, especially when it involves a foreign visitor.  ;)
2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM Duke 390, 2002 Yamaha FZ1


axman88

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Reply #80 on: November 19, 2021, 05:19:59 pm
The united states can also be very funny.  I once rented an e-glide from eagleriders, and in a small town in california a police man told me, that i did not have a licence plate on the bike. I looked, and he was right. The company forgot it to install, and I did not look. I asked the police if I am allowed to move on, he mumbled something and left the scene.

Anywhere in Europe i would be nailed for that.
Back in the late 80's, there was a thing called "Driveaway transport", that would charge cheap prices to transport cars.  They could charge less because they didn't pay their drivers.  They'd give the cars to anybody who showed up with a valid drivers license who was willing to drive the car, or truck, one way to it's destination.  You would have a generous amount of time to deliver the vehicle.  My buddies and I would get cars and take a vacation in it.  If the car belonged to a private owner, there might be plates on it, if it was a commercial transfer, there might be no plates, only some paperwork.

We were offered a nice clean late model Econoline that was to be delivered to a dealer in Dallas, and decided to take a long weekend trip down to Padre Island, south of Houston.  We were halfway through Arkansas, when I crawled under the car, and disconnected the speedometer.  We didn't want to show up at the destination with with a lot more mileage than the distance from Chicago to Dallas showing on the odometer.  From here on, we'd be using dead reckoning to avoid speeding tickets, a tricky business if you are a young man and doubly risky with no plates.

When we got pulled over in North Texas, we showed the cop the paperwork the company had given us, and the officer was kind enough to let us skate.  My buddy is a pretty clever guy, and at our next fill up he came out of the truck stop with a souvenir Texas state flag.  He taped that Lone star up in the rear window of the van, and it worked great, .. we didn't get stopped again.

We had a fine vacation, and two days before delivery was due, my buddies dropped me off at the Houston airport, so I could take another trip with a young lady I was interested in.  Unfortunately, those guys neglected to calculate the correct point at which to re-connect the speedometer, and ended up spending almost 3 hours circling Dallas, in order to accumulate enough mileage to account for the trip down from Chicago.


gizzo

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Reply #81 on: November 19, 2021, 08:16:59 pm
I have never been in australia, so my childish mind tells me, that everybody there is driving around with mad max style type of cars and bikes, somehow soldered together from crap from the ditch beside the road.
Hee says this like that'd be a bad thing. In the past I've built and owned a sbc powered torana (very small car) a Holden 3ltr 6 powered escort, an XL500 powered VT250 among others. My 30yo daily driver has had its 3.8l Buick engine swapped for a later ecotec. Does mad skids....
OMG I've hurt the value of the car. DILLIGAF?
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Bilgemaster

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Reply #82 on: November 20, 2021, 12:09:08 am
The united states can also be very funny.  I once rented an e-glide from eagleriders, and in a small town in california a police man told me, that i did not have a licence plate on the bike. I looked, and he was right. The company forgot it to install, and I did not look. I asked the police if I am allowed to move on, he mumbled something and left the scene.

Anywhere in Europe i would be nailed for that.

The thing about Germany is that while their official Oompa-Loompas may come across as ultra-officious and rigorously efficient, in actual fact they're just the same goofy species of drop-the-ball boobs likely as not to bugger things up as anywhere else. When I first rode into Germany on my old Norton I crossed over the border from France at Strasbourg. I suppose once a day the Zolltrollen  [= "border trolls"] might do one proper "full examination", and I was that day's lucky winner. I rolled into customs just before midnight, and didn't roll out into Germany until dawn was just breaking. To say it was all a bit "invasive" may be understating it, but I've had worse Tuesday nights. Yet after all of those hours of poking and prodding of both me and my bike and gear, strip-searching, peering up my ass and having me disassemble parts of the bike for a better look, you know what? They forgot to stamp my damned passport!--the one thing  those dummies were supposed to do! Accordingly, with nobody the wiser as to when exactly I had entered the country, I wound up staying for about 6 years or so--"alleged in my own time", as it were. So, hands up everyone who's successfully been an illegal immigrant!

« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 12:13:27 am by Bilgemaster »
So badass my Enfield's actually illegal  in India. Yet it squeaks by here in Virginia.

 


Crabsapper

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Reply #83 on: August 20, 2022, 12:40:47 pm
There are few ways of doing the EFI to carb conversion (UCE models up to 2016 or early 2017 i.e. Euro 3/ BS3), the easier and cheaper way is to retain most the EFI components and install the carburetor and let the EFI fiddle around with the ignition maps since it has no longer any control over fueling.

 The next option is to use the parts off the Indian BS3(Indian equivalent to Euro 3) STD 500 which had a carburetor as well as the multi map ignition curve TCI unit and a TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) fitted to the carburetor. I have tried to put together a parts list of items that are required.

570889/B -VB51 UCD33 carb
570888/A -VB51 TCI Unit multi curve (EFI model already may have this installed)
582601/A -VB51 TPS add on lead (harness to connect the carburetor TPS to TCI unit)
570896/A -VB51 Accelerator cable (Throttle Cable)
570886/B -VB51 Carburetor manifold 570886/B (connects carburetor to cylinder head)
592237/A -Rotor assembly (This replaces the EFI rotor and is from the Carburetor Classic 350 UCE model has only 1 trigger tooth to help the TCI identify TDC, looks somewhat similar to the rotor from the earlier AVL engines. You should be able to reuse existing EFI stator, its often replaced in India since the stator costs like $18)
888311 -Wiring harness kit (from the Classic 350 carburetor model)
RAC00156/A  -Ignition coil main (may not be required if the ignition coil connectors of the EFI model are the same)
147096/A -Auxillary ignition coil  (may not be required if the ignition coil connectors of the EFI model are the same)
594002/A -Cover fuel tap (Pentagon shaped plate that replaces fuel pump assembly for a fuel tap to be fitted)
584668/A -VB51 fuel tap assembly  (UCE 500cc fuel tap)
573140/A -NR61 air filter pipe outlet (Rubber connector to connect carburetor to air filter box)
592173/C -Ammeter  (Ammeter from Classic 350)
560195/C -RH switch (Right Hand Handle bar switch carb model may have small difference in pin configuration)

While these parts sounds very expensive, in India it costs under $270 which are all brand new genuine Royal Enfield parts.

There is a cheaper option, which involves using the wiring loom off something like the AVL Machismo 350/500 (electric start models) and then using any carburetor of your choice, with a Classic 350 TCI unit, leave the TPS connector unused (TCI unit runs off the base map) and use 592237/A -Rotor assembly. This is mostly a plug and play option if using non EFI handle bar switches( up to 2017 Electra 350 or Classic 350 handlebar switches). An additional wire will be needed to connect from the second ignition coil to the TCI unit. The fuel tank adaptor plate, fuel tap as well as the carburetor intake manifold will be required.

Has anybody done this? I'd be interested I  this as an alternative to the Hitchcocks kit.


axman88

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Reply #84 on: August 20, 2022, 03:29:30 pm
Has anybody done this? I'd be interested I  this as an alternative to the Hitchcocks kit.
The young man in  this video is clearly performing the ECU delete / Rotor replacement carb. conversion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmiFgKM_lr8

I get the impression he's done quite a few of these, but I don't understand his language, Hindi perhaps?

If you are able to understand, you can also benefit from his video regarding which carburetor is most suitable, and many others from other presenters as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RNdSTEhRwY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNWhV90TEZg

Here's one with less detail but English subtitles:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGPzAUp_2dU

I'm a little better with French language, but far from able to understand the dialogue as this type of conversion is performed in this french speaking shop:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_z1L3HeESQ

« Last Edit: August 20, 2022, 03:33:04 pm by axman88 »


Crabsapper

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Reply #85 on: August 21, 2022, 10:25:46 am
Thanks for those links. Will check out the videos.  :)

I'm still wondering if anyone outside India has done this and has any reason why it shouldn't be a success.


richard211

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Reply #86 on: August 21, 2022, 10:40:36 am
It's a very straight forward install and it's plug and play. Can easily be done in under a couple of hours, even if one has not done it before.


axman88

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Reply #87 on: August 21, 2022, 06:30:32 pm
I'm still wondering if anyone outside India has done this and has any reason why it shouldn't be a success.
I don't think the guys speaking French are in India.  Gigi Gilbert looks like exactly the type of guy who would take on an EFI to carb conversion of a Royal Enfield though.  Here he is riding a Chiang Jiang sidecar:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0LFoEqqlgY  Doesn't look like they are still building horizontally opposed twins?  And here he is riding Ural hacks through the mountains with a few friends:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pmZzg7MpZw   What a life!
 
Considering that the  350s are essentially the same engine, hung on the same frame, were built with carbs contemporaneously with the 500s and in about 35 times the numbers, I would think that there should be no reason that a conversion shouldn't be a success, if fitted with a suitable carb.

Here in the USA, UCE 350s were not imported in any appreciable quantity, and parts for carbureted UCEs are very rare.  Until  Richard211 was generous enough to list all the numbers, (thanks again) the necessary component information was only available in a very hard to decipher form.

I think the average US owner's UCE spends less time actually running down the road than the average Indian owner's, (EFI won't fail sitting in the garage).  the fuel quality here is good, and it's hard to imagine any mechanic shop being willing to take the job on.  We can hardly get the dealer who sold us our RE to take servicing it seriously, and most would have zero expertise in carbureted UCE machines.  I'd bet that parts like the CDI and rotor would not be available through RENA.  Also, I'd say US riders who can afford a Royal Enfield, can afford the Hitchcocks kit, which is a lot easier to implement, if they have an issue with EFI at all.

In summary, I'd say very little demand, no easy access to parts or information, and no access to professional service has lead to very few EFI machines being modified with the ECU delete, here in the USA.

Even the most passionate EFI haters here on the forum, seem content with keeping their ECU which, although constantly complaining, will still perform it's ignition functions.


richard211

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Reply #88 on: August 21, 2022, 06:45:29 pm
 The RE UCE 500 (UCD 33) carburetor is the key component. In India there has been others that swapped a UDC 33 carburetor from a 200cc motorcycle( because it was cheaper) , however the jets, needle and the emulsion tube is completely different and they have had nothing but trouble getting the UCE500 to start or run right.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #89 on: August 22, 2022, 12:06:36 am
 @ #87: We can hardly get the dealer who sold us our RE to take servicing it seriously
My consignment sale 500 Bullet had amazingly bad prep. I was lucky it ran at all.  A lot of it I chalk up to the current crop of mechanics as just being way too young to have any comprehension of just how demanding & persnickety the older bikes were of maintenance. Most have never seen a manually adjusted pushrod or points. The rotting Indian rubber intake manifold was simply wrapped in black electrical tape and reinstalled, the pushrods were way too tight, the final drive chain was banjo tight.  I probably have more Bullet parts in my cabinet than that dealership. If you aren't doing your own maintenance, your name better be Leno, Gates or Musk...
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