[Tim 15]

Hi has anyone experienced difficulty changing into 1st or second gear from neutral , also everyone seems to say how smooth the gear changing is but I find it a bit notchy occasionally, it has done only 600 miles, is it normal and does it get better with use.

[Dexter]

Hi has anyone experienced difficulty changing into 1st or second gear from neutral , also everyone seems to say how smooth the gear changing is but I find it a bit notchy occasionally, it has done only 600 miles, is it normal and does it get better with use.

Are you preloading the shift lever with your toe before you pull the clutch to upshift?

[Jack Straw]

Hi Tim, welcome to the forum.

I wouldn't worry too much as the bike is still so new but if the clutch is not properly adjusted it could effect the shifting.

When you engage first from neutral does the bike "jump" a little?  That may indicate a dragging clutch that isn't releasing fully.  Check the free play at the handle bar lever.  The clutch lever should have a small amount of free play like 1/8 inch or a tiny bit more.  Too much free play allows the lever to stop against the hand grip before the clutch is fully released causing hard shifting and in some cases the bike will creep forward even though the clutch lever is pulled fully back.

Basic free-play can be easily adjusted with the thumbwheel at the cable.
 
Many owners have reported smoother shifting after a couple thousand miles.

[BlackIce619]

Just to add to what Jack had mentioned. The times I have experienced these types of issues are also due to the oil used OR too much or not enough oil. In my other motorcycle, if I was low on oil (Harley's leaks oil like a champ), I would immediately feel difficulty in changing gears. The quality of oil used also made it obvious to me of that "butter-shift" gear change.

Moto is still quite new... so just give it that break-in period first and then start to play with it a bit. On the forums, is seems as though things get better as they wear in... 

[8bitopa]

As a newer owner myself (1100 miles) I can say that mine has gotten smoother over time. I haven't gotten a false neutral in a couple hundred miles (used to be at least once daily) and the shifting is way smoother than it was brand new.

Stuart Fillingham talks about using certain oil in his interceptor and claims it removed all shifting issues he faced. Could be a thing.

[5SpeedRacer]

As a newer owner myself (1100 miles) I can say that mine has gotten smoother over time. I haven't gotten a false neutral in a couple hundred miles (used to be at least once daily) and the shifting is way smoother than it was brand new.

Stuart Fillingham talks about using certain oil in his interceptor and claims it removed all shifting issues he faced. Could be a thing.

I ran that oil for a year in mine, only 1500 miles or so but changed it this year for the Elf oil recommended in the owners manual. Big improvement in gear change feel and accuracy.

[NVDucati]

As a newer owner myself (1100 miles) I can say that mine has gotten smoother over time. I haven't gotten a false neutral in a couple hundred miles (used to be at least once daily) and the shifting is way smoother than it was brand new.

Stuart Fillingham talks about using certain oil in his interceptor and claims it removed all shifting issues he faced. Could be a thing.

Hi, I'm quoting you only because you are currently the most recent rider to make this observation/question but certainly not the first. If one would paddle backwards through this forum you will find a number of folks who's bikes have cured themselves with a few hundred miles or a different brand of oil during a service. People chime in with earnest suggestions and me-too'.
   Personally, I don't think steel gears or a minor chemical difference in oil is what a few hundred miles is breaking-in or smoothing out. 

[6504me]

Hi, I'm quoting you only because you are currently the most recent rider to make this observation/question but certainly not the first. If one would paddle backwards through this forum you will find a number of folks who's bikes have cured themselves with a few hundred miles or a different brand of oil during a service. People chime in with earnest suggestions and me-too'.
  Personally, I don't think steel gears or a minor chemical difference in oil is what a few hundred miles is breaking-in or smoothing out. 

Agreed, but clutch friction and drive plates breaking in might...?

[NVDucati]

Agreed, but clutch friction and drive plates breaking in might...?

Maybe.
My opinion has become that we, the riders, break in and smooth out.
Transmissions are not digital, they are mechanical. For the most part they are not automatic, they are manual. The mechanism isn't a dial, its a ratchet. It requires an operator and the operator develops a "touch".  A rider being new or returning or switching brands or even getting new boots is a part of the symphony. It takes a few miles. (says me)

[6504me]

Maybe.
My opinion has become that we, the riders, break in and smooth out.
Transmissions are not digital, they are mechanical. For the most part they are not automatic, they are manual. The mechanism isn't a dial, its a ratchet. It requires an operator and the operator develops a "touch".  A rider being new or returning or switching brands or even getting new boots is a part of the symphony. It takes a few miles. (says me)

So we must become operate in harmony and become one with the machine...  Grasshopper.

That's an interesting observation yet there are those, and I am among them, who worked on and rode every kind and style of motorcycle all day, every day for decades, right and left hand shift, up and down for first, and never missed a gear or reached for the wrong pedal or lever. Must be better firmware?

[chazinga]

I learned to ride about 6-7 years ago.  I swore my first bike had a transmission issue because I often had a devil of a time selecting first from neutral.  Nope, the transmission was fine, the rider was defective.  I was in the habit of holding in the clutch lever while in neutral and with nothing spinning in the tranny first gear would more often than not just refuse to go in. 

The "problem" was "fixed" when I learned not to do that.  Never had another problem on that bike or any other.

Just another possible reason why first could be hard to select. 

[Starpeve]

My GT has always been as smooth as silk, and I note that my gear lever is mounted directly onto the shaft. Could the Interceptor linkages be contributing to the shift problems?

[Haggisman2]

My Interceptor gear change has been silk smooth since the first service, even the occasional false neutral between 5th and 6th went away. I used to own a Bultaco Lobito 175cc that had 1 or 2 false neutrals between each gear depending on how it felt.

[lucky phil]

One issue with shifting and a new bike is riding style. The first few hundred klms/miles keeping the revs lowish and being cautious until one feels at home on the bike creates a false impression of the transmission. Constant mesh motorcycle gearboxes need to spin quite fast to work as intended and when you are new to a new bike you tend to ride cautiously and conservatively short shifting at reduced revs etc. Not the way a transmission works at its best. So they can be clunky and knotchy and noisy when shifting especially in the upper gears and esp the shift between 5th and 6th.
I bought a second hand GSX1100 for a friend about 35 years ago and rode it home and the trans was perfect ( I also owned one as well) he came and picked it up from me and rode away. A week or so later he rang me worried the transmission seemed clunky and noisy and was asking me about my bike and what it was like when I purchased it for him. I asked him when this issued occurred and where he was riding. He said from the city home in the rain. I told him that was the issue, riding a new to him, big bike being extra cautious in the wet. Call me back when you've been on a dry ride. He rang me back a week or so later and all was good.
So the reality is maybe 10% is breaking in the trans and clutch and the rest is the rider loosening up and riding the bike a little more aggressively with a few more revs and speed where the gearbox likes to operate because they are more comfortable on it. Riding any bike around sedately and slowly and upshifting at low/lowish rpm is a recipe for a clunky transmission.   

Ciao 

[YellowDuck]

I've been riding for 34 years and hanging out in internet motorcycle forums since there have been internet motorcycle forums, and this is the first time I have heard this idea about how riding style can shape one's impression of a gearbox.  Makes perfect sense.  I wasn't expecting to learn something so fundamental today.  Special group here, apparently.

[Karl Fenn]

Well it can do if you put you foot on the gear change before disengaging clutch it can cause the issue he describes, but there again the BMW oilheads have a bad clunky gear change it's the way the gears are cut in factory it has nothing to do with riding style.

[lucky phil]

Well it can do if you put you foot on the gear change before disengaging clutch it can cause the issue he describes, but there again the BMW oilheads have a bad clunky gear change it's the way the gears are cut in factory it has nothing to do with riding style.

Unless there is an issue with the clutch inherently clunky gearboxes are a result of the shifting mechanism in the main not so much the gear dogs. The design of the shift drum and its ratio of rotation to shift fork movement is a considerable factor as is the spring resistance in the shifting mechanism and the leverage ratio of the shift lever itself. A mechanism with decently strong springs and a low leverage ratio will shift quicker and therefor smoother than the opposite. So I improved the shifting performance of my Guzzi V11 Sport gearbox to Japanese bike standards by simply adding 12mm to the shift lever actuating arm. This mod reduced the lever travel when shifting and increased the effort on the foot. The result was a slightly firmer shift action which meant that there was more force applied when the internal shift detent spring was overcome during a shift. This resulted in faster shift mechanism actuation and turned a somewhat slowish changing gearbox into a somewhat Japanese standard of shift. The mod was then put into a couple of limited production runs and sold worldwide to a small but appreciative group of owners. 

Ciao 

[8bitopa]

Hi, I'm quoting you only because you are currently the most recent rider to make this observation/question but certainly not the first. If one would paddle backwards through this forum you will find a number of folks who's bikes have cured themselves with a few hundred miles or a different brand of oil during a service. People chime in with earnest suggestions and me-too'.
   Personally, I don't think steel gears or a minor chemical difference in oil is what a few hundred miles is breaking-in or smoothing out. 

Oh I didn't fully buy into the oil thing or I'd have changed it out. The riding in period is there for both me and the motorcycle.

Different note: I had a Harley Road Glide that would start to have a difficult time finding neutral around the time it was due for a full 3-hope oil change.

[Jack Straw]

+1 on lucky phil mentioning riding style.  I've noticed for a long time that when I ride like an old lady (these days that's my normal style) using low revs and just dawdling along the shifting on both my Interceptor and VT Ascot can be a little clunky.
When I'm out in the countryside using more throttle and RPMs my bikes shift smoother.

A while back NVDucati mentioned "lazy foot syndrome" and I've been guilty of not quite releasing the shifter far enough for the ratchet to reset so the upshift doesn't take.  For me this happens when riding in town slowly but not on my favorite roads at a quicker pace.

Another issue that some may dispute is footwear.  Some modern MC boots take protection to such an extreme that one barely feels the control levers.  I had a pair of Alpinestars that were very bulky and really stiff.  I once rode 5 miles with my rear brake lever depressed......I had no idea what was going on but thought I might be running low on fuel.   My rear rotor is still blue on the edges.   When I switched to some Daytona "Old Timers" control responses magically improved.

[agagliardi]

Higher revs when shifting definitely
And mine did improve significantly after break in.

[6504me]

Went out today wanting to focus on my bike's shifting. So far never missed a gear or found a false neutral running Mobil1 15w50 and I have adjusted the shift lever up to accommodate my shoe size. When adjusting the shift lever UP make sure it clears the peg mount and doesn't hit it. If it does a minute with a round file and black magic maker will resolve that.

I have discovered that I can duplicate every complaint in this thread regarding the transmission and shifting.

All I have to do to miss a shift or find a false neutral or get notchy(?) shifting is to shift below 4000 RPM.

Above 4k, which is really where one should be fanning the shift lever on this transmission, I find it shifts perfect... every time... all the time.

Drop below 4k and shifting problems are right there.

As noted in this thread... this is a constant mesh trans and needs to spin to work properly.

For those of you having these problems raise your shift points a bit over 4k and see if your gearbox works better.

And... don't over look what oil you're using and that you clutch is adjusted correctly.

[lucky phil]

I had a BMW K100RS back in the mid 80's, two in fact, both bought from the factory on separate occasions and toured around Europe for 3 months each time. The K100 was a nice torquey engine and would pull top gear(5th) easily at 60kph even 2 up fully loaded. At this speed the transmission was a quite baulky and notchy thing and sometimes wouldn't shift into top gear at all. I mentioned this to my German friend who worked for BMW in Munich and had owned and ridden BMW for 20 years (he was in his 50's and I in my 20's) and he set me straight. You're shifting at too low a road speed esp into 5th gear. Even though the engine will pull the higher gear the gearbox isn't designed to shift well at those low revs and road speed. Took his advice and problem solved entirely. Never forgot that advice.

Ciao   

[6504me]

I had a BMW K100RS back in the mid 80's, two in fact, both bought from the factory on separate occasions and toured around Europe for 3 months each time. The K100 was a nice torquey engine and would pull top gear(5th) easily at 60kph even 2 up fully loaded. At this speed the transmission was a quite baulky and notchy thing and sometimes wouldn't shift into top gear at all. I mentioned this to my German friend who worked for BMW in Munich and had owned and ridden BMW for 20 years (he was in his 50's and I in my 20's) and he set me straight. You're shifting at too low a road speed esp into 5th gear. Even though the engine will pull the higher gear the gearbox isn't designed to shift well at those low revs and road speed. Took his advice and problem solved entirely. Never forgot that advice.

Ciao

Moto-Guzzis were the same... big flywheels and car sized transmissions.

[YellowDuck]

I have had a few instance where 1 was not engaging from N.  I've found that just letting the clutch out then pulling it back in gets it to work.

[lucky phil]

I have had a few instance where 1 was not engaging from N.  I've found that just letting the clutch out then pulling it back in gets it to work.

Depending on the bike and therefore they type of clutch and how much drag it has and also dependant on whether the engine is up to temp or cold affects the selection into 1st at a stand still. A bit of clutch drag keeps the gearbox input shaft turning over which aids selecting gear, albeit with a clunk usually. If you are having issues selecting 1st at a standstill my suggestion is don't hesitate selecting first gear after you pull the clutch in. Pull the clutch and hit the lever without delay and make the selection while the gearbox input shaft is still rotating.

Ciao

[kevinduke]

Hi, do you lift/press the shifter before pulling the clutch lever? It could be a reason why you face hard shifting. Apart from that, several reasons, like excess clutch free play, too much engine oil, bad clutch plates, etc., also create problems in gear shifting. You should read this guide- https://motorcycleninja.com/why-is-it-hard-to-shift-gears-on-motorcycle/

[Racer57]

My RE is the best/smoothest shifting motorcycle I have ever owned. Once your moving, the clutch isn't even needed it shifts so nice. I do use clutch though. Anything with a manual tranny you have to learn what its trying to tell you. If your grinding, missing gears, etc it may be because your not doing what it requires. Ten wheeler and semi trucks tranny can be tough when you first get in them. but after a couple miles you can shift with one finger on the shifter. The OP's issue is most likely clutch adjustment. I have very little faith in the idea that oil makes as much of a difference as some think.

[Ton1959]

Keep an eye on the amount of free play that your clutch has and adjust when required. Give it a few months and the gearchange will be perfect. If it isnt you will have had the problem with previous bikes too is my guess.

[Racer57]

Oh I didn't fully buy into the oil thing or I'd have changed it out. The riding in period is there for both me and the motorcycle.

Different note: I had a Harley Road Glide that would start to have a difficult time finding neutral around the time it was due for a full 3-hope oil change.

The RG primary chain is what needed adjusting. Primary Oil change was only a coincidence due to 10,000 miles.

[RalphG]

Tim:  One old time (consider the source!) test of your clutch's adjustment is done with the engine off. 

First, with the bike in neutral, push it about 10 feet forward.  This will provide a baseline for how the bike feels without any clutch drag.  Then, put the bike in first gear.  Pull in the clutch lever all the way to the grip.  Holding the clutch lever fully back, push the bike forward.  If the bike rolls easily, the clutch is not dragging.  If the bike is a bit difficult to push, your clutch is dragging and requires adjustment.

Since this model uses a "wet" clutch, total disengagement is unlikely and some drag will occur due to oil on the plates.  So, if you get a very slight resistance when pushing the bike in gear, clutch disengaged, that is normal.



Ralph