Author Topic: kickstart problem - pawl or spring?  (Read 6667 times)

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AzCal Retred

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Reply #30 on: May 01, 2021, 06:11:26 pm
CONGRATULATIONS! You are an Official SME ( Subject Matter Expert)!  ;D ;D ;D  Fifth time, eh? I think"MacArthur (I will return!)" was sending you a message - 5 speed, 5 tries...  8) 

The new K.S. shaft may need to "bed in" to the new (to it) location, maybe just give it a few rides to find it's place and make elbow room. I'd be hesitant to remove metal. Maybe it's a tight O-ring, I seem to remember mine being a bit lazy for a bit until the new sealing 0-ring ring wore in.

Again - Congratulations! Perseverance furthers, eh? - ACR -

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Willbrunei

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Reply #31 on: May 02, 2021, 04:58:50 am
Thanks for the support Azcal. It’s nice to have people on this forum who understand Enfield stuff.

You were spot on with the ks shaft. Once the new oil had got into the ks shaft bearing, it all freed up and works a treat.

Hopefully enough gearbox work for now....
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AzCal Retred

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Reply #32 on: May 02, 2021, 05:57:55 am
Looks like you're the expert now! If I get a 5-speed I'll be picking your brain. Write down what you did before it fades from short term memory; Paper/Text Doc is your friend, file it away for the future. Soon enough you'll join the "what did I know and when did I know it...?" crowd like the rest of us geezers... :o ;D

Well done, Sir! - ACR -
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Willbrunei

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Reply #33 on: May 02, 2021, 12:43:10 pm
Used to have:
Fs1E; Yamaha V90 step through; MZ125; Harley badged Cagiva 125; Cm250T; DT250; 750 four F2; XS 650; GS400; W650; '07 iron barrel military 500; Royal Alloy TV175

Now have: '22 classic reborn


bt4267

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Reply #34 on: April 29, 2023, 05:54:35 pm
Willbrunei, can you please tell me what mistake you made. I am struggling with the gear box assembly. I am in the US and there are no bullet repair places nearby. I have a 2006 Electra S 5 speed. Also, is there a way to check/ confirm that the assembly is correct before putting everything back together and adding oil.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #35 on: April 29, 2023, 09:58:25 pm
Will's since moved on, but there are many 5-speed mavens here. Read the story of Will's effort & study the parts diagram. Do you have the downloadable Hitchcock's manual or the Snidal manual? YouTube is a great resource also.

"What one man can do, another can do!" ;D
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richard211

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Reply #36 on: April 30, 2023, 05:07:23 am
Here is a detailed video of the 5 speed gearbox assembly.

https://youtu.be/XiO-9GXfCMk


bt4267

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Reply #37 on: April 30, 2023, 01:40:48 pm
Azcal, hope Will is okay. I do have the FSM from Hitchcock. I do not have Snidal -I do see links to buy Snidal in downloadable format for $20. Are those links legit, do you know.
Richard, I have watched this video. I did put the gearbox back but hiw do I say if I did the work correctly before putting everything back together and starting the motorcycle.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #38 on: April 30, 2023, 03:04:33 pm
Will got a new job and moved from Brunei. The bike was too much to take with him internationally, shipping isn't cheap and vehicle laws change.

Why did it get disassembled originally? Did you go in to just replace the KS pawl and some gear guts fell out? I think that's what happened to Will.

There are no guarantees here. The gearbox-in-the-frame reassembly takes some finagling, but many others have done it. The inner cover has bearings in it, so it holds shafts in correct alignment and provides correct end spacing. With the inner cover in place and snugged up you should be able to roll the rear wheel and operate the gear selector. If it's rolling freely, you can hit neutral & have all 5 speeds, you are likely there. Then you final reassemble and CAUTIOUSLY test ride.

If it was stock & worked before, and you just replaced part-for-part, it should work if you haven't flipped something over or transposed a position. Test shaft movement by rotating them as you reassemble. Axial play also can't be excessive, make sure any & all shims are in place. The gearset can't be allowed to "bind up" and go solid when you tighten down the inner cover, castings get cracked that way. Sometimes a soft-faced plastic mallet is needed to tap as you go to help the internal bits settle back in.

Just like a doctor, "do no harm". Study the exploded views carefully & test as you go. It's just a monkey puzzle, right?  ;D  ...and don't forget any gaskets! :o ;D

A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


richard211

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Reply #39 on: April 30, 2023, 03:25:06 pm
Azcal, hope Will is okay. I do have the FSM from Hitchcock. I do not have Snidal -I do see links to buy Snidal in downloadable format for $20. Are those links legit, do you know.
Richard, I have watched this video. I did put the gearbox back but hiw do I say if I did the work correctly before putting everything back together and starting the motorcycle.


If you wanted to check if all of the gears were working correctly, before you do a final assembly and start up the engine, put all of the gearbox components back together including the right hand side cover and the kick lever.
 I would suggest you install the chain that connects the rear wheel sprocket to the gearbox output shaft. The next step would place the clutch centre hub onto the gearbox input shaft. Take the gear lever and temporarily install it on the gear lever shaft.
 From the left side of the motorcycle, put gearbox into first gear position and spin the clutch hub a few time anti clockwise with one hand and use the other to put a little bit of pressure on the rear tyre, it helps if the motorcycle is on its centre stand. We are trying to make sure the gear is being positively engaged. Next put move the gear lever so the gearbox is in neutral, again add some pressure to the rear wheel so it does not spin, but the clutch hub has to spin freely. Every time a gear is selected, e.g first, second, third, forth or fifth, if the clutch hub is rotated the rear wheel will rotate. First gear will take around 3 rotations of the clutch hub for the rear wheel to rotate once and in fifth gear one rotation of the clutch hub will be equal to one rotation of the rear wheel. Once you are satisfied there is no issues, then check the kick start engagement, I usually sit on top of the motorcycle and kick the kick lever slowly and lightly grab the clutch centre, as long as the kick lever is moving downwards, the clutch hub has to spin with no slippage.


bt4267

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Reply #40 on: May 01, 2023, 01:53:32 am
Azcal and Richard thanks for your help. Yes Acal, it was a kicker pawl repair where some gears fell off the layshaft. Now I am struggling to get the gears back in place. I tried what both you and Richard told me. I am hearing 1gearing changing but I am not able to cycle all gears like we normally would when we ride. Looks like the stop pin may be restricting the movement of the rocker shaft assembly. I have the 11.3mm pin. My situation is very similar to that of Will, wonder if I too messed up the order of the shifter fork. The first two forks are so similar but one is longer than the other. I put the longer one first and then the shorter one. Do you guys know if that is the right order?
I was rewatching the video recommended by Richard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiO-9GXfCMk
Looks like the shorter one has to go on first. If any of you have time please glance at the video at the 26minutes and 27 secs spot (ie 27 secs past the 26th minute) and give me your opinion on which fork looks shorter, the one that comes first after the circlip on the selector fork shaft or the one that comes second.



« Last Edit: May 01, 2023, 02:55:05 am by bt4267 »


AzCal Retred

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Reply #41 on: May 01, 2023, 02:53:00 am
Where are you located?

I would use Hitchcock's Parts resource to ID individual parts from the exploded view. The individual pictures provide a clearer view than the parts sketch.

R211 provided a video, YouTube has many Indian contributors. these have been very helpful to me in the past.

Snidal & Hitchcock's manuals show the "power flow" thru the gearbox. Take the time to understand how this system works. The reality is that largely all the commercial shop mechanics that can work on these machines have by now all quit, died or retired. YOU are the default mechanic. The good news is that these machines are relatively user friendly, the bad news is that they like/require a lot more "friendly" than your average Honda. Welcome back to 1935. With the wide ratio 5-speed you have the best transmission you'll get. They'd have thought they'd died & gone to heaven if they had this jewel back in the day.

Again, it's just a mechanical puzzle. It'll succumb to methodical fitment. << https://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/partsbook-pages/1864  >>

Worst case just get a new intact transmission from e-bay. So it's worth about $400 to figure it out, right?  :)  And unless you fix it, it's just a parts bike to the next guy, maybe $1,000 OBO situation. You can do this.

Fit For Royal Enfield With Kick and Gear Lever Used 5 Speed Gear Box
Price:US $357.59
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/374444657447?hash=item572ea40b27:g:0OAAAOSwXgJjt8ny&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8BhIxwRXgLVRsc9ag%2FdhIJHXL2uah0D0IOAFzwvMiVjDwLdK8q6IjGH9qNNIHpIY8eG%2Byig0qbgKGMVG93JptTeNMEcONdOE3DccrZtPO2DZWpiYMLu76PRMOGFQ1vDLdwCbiTLvfHIE1K5cYDpk4nXm%2Bt%2BFELkshKusr3XqyQnJZ9EZrXyPHl1Qdhp92u007IjRrkGHugyrUtRj9EvsS1Dqt%2BBO5BY49XVxsOLiKHPML55WitYeCUyaPAPGvrOdI6G1lEZdWksyG6ehoogxVVCuBtppgpoHiYx3i41nyJTNbbTXMvHmPpQcA%2FS7ZAvNcQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7LZm8_6YQ


A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


bt4267

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Reply #42 on: May 01, 2023, 02:59:04 am
Oh thanks, Axcal, I never thought of that. Thanks for the eBay link. I sure will keep that in mind. I also modified my previous post. If you have time can you pls look at the 26:27th minute of that video.


AzCal Retred

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Reply #43 on: May 01, 2023, 03:44:17 am
That was a great assembly video! The 5 speed is certainly busier than the 4 speed. Everything is easier to assemble on the bench top too. All you can do is keep plugging away. Looks like the gearbox was assembled in neutral position? Probably better to index it that way to start with.

Verify ALL your parts, watch the video 2-4 times to get the pattern. Keep after it!
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


richard211

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Reply #44 on: May 01, 2023, 06:29:30 am
Azcal and Richard thanks for your help. Yes Acal, it was a kicker pawl repair where some gears fell off the layshaft. Now I am struggling to get the gears back in place. I tried what both you and Richard told me. I am hearing 1gearing changing but I am not able to cycle all gears like we normally would when we ride. Looks like the stop pin may be restricting the movement of the rocker shaft assembly. I have the 11.3mm pin. My situation is very similar to that of Will, wonder if I too messed up the order of the shifter fork. The first two forks are so similar but one is longer than the other. I put the longer one first and then the shorter one. Do you guys know if that is the right order?
I was rewatching the video recommended by Richard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiO-9GXfCMk
Looks like the shorter one has to go on first. If any of you have time please glance at the video at the 26minutes and 27 secs spot (ie 27 secs past the 26th minute) and give me your opinion on which fork looks shorter, the one that comes first after the circlip on the selector fork shaft or the one that comes second.

 I have attached a page out of the parts catalogue to make it easier to understand the way the selector forks fit. Part number 12 and 11 should interlock with each other. The selector fork with the flat sides is the one that is installed on the left side(closest to the clutch). When you are reinstalling the selector forks. Look at the parts diagram and compare the location of pins on the selector fork as well.