[spyder_ink]

Greatings RE community,
I am a neophyte rider, neophyte RE owner, as well as first time poster to this forum. I immediately fell in love with the RE brand, its history, and its continuing legacy. I'm also quickly finding that the RE community is dedicated and really feels like a family any time I talk to a fellow RE fan.

My bike is/was a Classic 500 Pegasus edition and, aside from being my spirit animal, the bike is perfection on earth. For reasons I won't get into here (of no fault of my own), it requires a new motor.

Does anyone know, if the Conti GT 535 motor would be a clean swap for the 500 EFI? I know they are very similar, if not identical externally. I have found a used 2014 Conti motor with 4.6k miles on it and believe it might be worth a shot at doing. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge on the matter? Specifically in regards to mounting of the motor in the frame (mounting points on UCE vs Conti 535), as well as matching up of other aspects like intake/exhause and chain etc. I am fairly mechanically inclined as well as patient, even if I have never worked on a motorcycle before.

Any advice, comments, curse words are appreciated. Additionally any resources or references online of folks having done this would be amazing. Thanks in advance.

[ace.cafe]

Should go right in.
There might be some small difference in the ECU program, but not sure about that.

[GlennF]

Just double check the swap is legal in your jurisdiction.

Whats legal for registration renewal in say Oregon may attract a ton of paperwork across the border in California and be totally illegal in the EU.

[spyder_ink]

Should go right in.
There might be some small difference in the ECU program, but not sure about that.

Thanks @ace.cafe,
I'm happy to hear that. I'm still scouring the interwebz to see if I can find some documentation but I'm with you, I think it might work.
I'll def take the bike to get dyno'd/ECU remapped here local in NC. Thanks again!

[spyder_ink]

Just double check the swap is legal in your jurisdiction.

Whats legal for registration renewal in say Oregon may attract a ton of paperwork across the border in California and be totally illegal in the EU.

Thats a good point. I'll check to see what the regs are here in NC. Thanks again!

[ace.cafe]

Thanks @ace.cafe,
I'm happy to hear that. I'm still scouring the interwebz to see if I can find some documentation but I'm with you, I think it might work.
I'll def take the bike to get dyno'd/ECU remapped here local in NC. Thanks again!

The whole unit is externally identical on 500/535.
The only differences are internal, and very few of them.

[Jako]

535 has a larger inlet valve, throttle body and manifold  so you might need either the GT ecu or a power commander to get the tuning correct. 

[Adrian II]

Just double check the swap is legal in your jurisdiction.

Whats legal for registration renewal in say Oregon may attract a ton of paperwork across the border in California and be totally illegal in the EU.

I can't speak for the rest of the EU, but since we are a member of it for few more weeks, the UK does allow engine swaps, you just have to notify change of engine number and any capacity change to  the Driver and Vehicle Licencing Agency, who will issue a revised title document (V5C). Your insurer might also have to be informed. As you say, individual states in the USA seem to have their own rules.

A.

[Guaire]

Yes, the Power Commander V is an option.
  The EJK fuel controller is a cheaper and effective option. It’s easier to program. Downright simple by comparison. There are posts here describing the set up and settings.
  The PCV is ultimately more tunable. You get to decide which one you like.

[axman88]

Yes, the Power Commander V is an option.
  The EJK fuel controller is a cheaper and effective option. It’s easier to program. Downright simple by comparison. There are posts here describing the set up and settings.
  The PCV is ultimately more tunable. You get to decide which one you like.

Why not the Powertronic?  Isn't the Powertronic the only option that retains closed loop O2 sensor feedback?

[Guaire]

Why is that a plus?

[axman88]

Why is that a plus?

Nobody said it was a plus.  I just asked if retention of closed loop operation was a characteristic of the Powertronic, and why that device wasn't listed as an option with the other ECU signal modifying, add-on devices.

[swamp2]

Nobody said it was a plus.  I just asked if retention of closed loop operation was a characteristic of the Powertronic, and why that device wasn't listed as an option with the other ECU signal modifying, add-on devices.

I initiated a thread that got into this over on Tim's forum, there's some useful discussion over there.  I was schooled on why retention of the O2 sensor isn't particularly helpful.  You can find it here...

http://forum.westerncyclesupply.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=68

[axman88]

I initiated a thread that got into …… why retention of the O2 sensor isn't particularly helpful.

Thanks for the link.  An interesting read.  I'll have to go through it in more detail, but, as I read it, GHG was suggesting that his preferred technique was to bypass/remove the narrow band 02 sensor, but then ADD a Wide Band 02 sensor coupled to an Autotuner device?

This may not be true of the RE machines, but I read elsewhere that the way the ECU uses a narrow band sensor is to constantly cycle the injector from rich to lean, while monitoring the 02 output, to keep the Air/Fuel ratio in the preferred zone.

I get the impression that a lot of these devices are sold to people who don't really need them, and the only real benefit is to the device manufacturer, the oil companies and the aftermarket shops.

It's interesting that no matter how much "they" try to limit our environmental impacts, we still find ways around it.

I saw that The Motor Company got slapped with a fairly substantial fine for selling these types of gadgets.  https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/08/18/harley-davidson-epa-emissions-settlement-defeat-devices/88944648/    Perhaps it is India's relatively restrictive vehicle oversight that requires them to retain the 02 sensor and thus the configuration of the Powertronic, vs the EJK.

[swamp2]

Thanks for the link.  An interesting read.  I'll have to go through it in more detail, but, as I read it, GHG was suggesting that his preferred technique was to bypass/remove the narrow band 02 sensor, but then ADD a Wide Band 02 sensor coupled to an Autotuner device?

This may not be true of the RE machines, but I read elsewhere that the way the ECU uses a narrow band sensor is to constantly cycle the injector from rich to lean, while monitoring the 02 output, to keep the Air/Fuel ratio in the preferred zone.

I get the impression that a lot of these devices are sold to people who don't really need them, and the only real benefit is to the device manufacturer, the oil companies and the aftermarket shops.

It's interesting that no matter how much "they" try to limit our environmental impacts, we still find ways around it.

I saw that The Motor Company got slapped with a fairly substantial fine for selling these types of gadgets.  https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/08/18/harley-davidson-epa-emissions-settlement-defeat-devices/88944648/    Perhaps it is India's relatively restrictive vehicle oversight that requires them to retain the 02 sensor and thus the configuration of the Powertronic, vs the EJK.

I think the O2 sensor in the RE works the same way.  Idea is to keep AFR high/emissions low when in closed loop mode.  That is the manufacturers preferred zone, which may not be the owners preferred zone.  It's optimizing emissions and fuel economy over power.  Technically I suppose you could keep the O2 sensor in place in any of the add-on scenarios (EJK, Powertronics, PC-V), but if the objective is to make it run richer and better (more power, cooler) across the range, the stock ECU will defeat the point of the controller and nullify it's effect, at least in closed loop mode.  Faking out the O2 sensor just keeps the stock ECU from trying to lean it out.

Although the bike may run nicely enough when completely stock (even though it could run better), the problem comes when you start modifying the bike, making it breathe better (e.g. intake, exhaust mods) and consequently run naturally even leaner.  The stock ECU map may not have enough range/be programmed to provide a rich enough mixture to keep from hurting the engine.  And even if it's not hurting the engine, you won't be getting all the benefits that the modifications would provide.  That's why the market for the add-on controllers exists.

The AT-200/wideband sensor scenario is the optimum, as you get a closed loop system that will automatically adjust to any variables across the entire riding range to the desired AFR.  Of course that comes with expense.  But if you have a map that's reasonably well matched to your bike configuration, that continual refinement is probably overkill.

If my interpretation of this is correct, credit goes to GHG.  And if I'm incorrectly stating anything, it's just because I'm a dummy.