Author Topic: Premium Gas ?  (Read 8102 times)

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1 Thump

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on: January 29, 2010, 12:21:05 am
Is premium gas the recommended kind of gasoline for th enew AVL Electra 2009.

Also, which engine oil is recommended.


UncleErnie

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Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 02:22:34 am
I don't get the impression these are really high compression engines.  I use 89 octane in all my bikes and they run fine.

The manual recommends 15-40 oil.  Asking for oil advice usually starts pages and pages of debate with long charts and statistics mixed with expert testimony from machinists, mechanics, and Aut Hattie who broke down crossing the outback and rebuilt the bike herself using nothing but her sewing kit and remarked on how nice the cylinders walls looked after 176,000 kilometers.
Personally, I'm using Rotella 15-40.  I may switch to Spectro 20-50 in the summer if I see the jug wavering in the heat of traffic.
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REpozer

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Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 03:06:21 am
You can use any gas you like. Listen to the engine , she will tell you.
I have used 87 octane, but mine seems to run better at a lug on 91.

I am currently using 15-40 truck oil (might be Rotella). I ride in cool wet weather , so oil gets milky, low miles, I change oil for the seasons.

Uncle Ernie is right , asking about oil can start a humerus oil war.
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PhilJ

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Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 10:33:06 pm
OIl RANT Rant rant!!!!
Use any good motorcycle oil. I've been using Amsoil, but I also use BMW 20-50 dino. Same results. But I prefer the Amsoil.


ScooterBob

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Reply #4 on: January 30, 2010, 01:22:16 am
OIL???? A-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-argh!!   ::)
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Ice

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Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 11:23:34 pm
I run premium in my bikes not for the octane but for the quality.

 My Bikes are all carbed and the low octane crap that passes for gasoline these days just does not allow the bikes to run right.

The EFI engines in our cars run fine on the crap gas, they just get lower mileage is all.




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Cabo Cruz

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Reply #6 on: January 31, 2010, 01:26:41 am
2004 (IB) Sixty-5 running on BP (Amoco) Premium (with 1 oz. of Sta-Bil with every tankfull), Amsoil 20W50 (fully synthetic) and Type F ATF (1 qt.) in the primary -- over 10000 miles on the clock.
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1 Thump

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Reply #7 on: February 12, 2010, 08:02:45 pm
2004 (IB) Sixty-5 running on BP (Amoco) Premium (with 1 oz. of Sta-Bil with every tankfull), Amsoil 20W50 (fully synthetic) and Type F ATF (1 qt.) in the primary -- over 10000 miles on the clock.

Whats Sta-bil


bob bezin

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Reply #8 on: February 12, 2010, 09:38:02 pm
sta bil is a gasoline  en stabelizer it is a must in the fall going into winter in the north when the bike sits for months. it keeps the gas from going bad. available at any auto parts counter anywhere. i have started to use sea foam ,another additive that is reported to be beneficial in our bikes cars etc.reduces carbon buildup etc.
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Vince

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Reply #9 on: February 12, 2010, 10:02:01 pm
     Let's talk about gasoline. Octane is a measure of one specific property of gas. That is: how slowly it burns. Gas does not explode instantaneously. Rather, it burns at a controlled rate.  To accommodate this property, the burn has to start before TDC to make use of the power potential. This is why you have spark advance. The spark starts the burn at a predetermined distance before TDC, based on piston speed as well as compression. The higher the piston speed the more advance needed. This is why the the advance is variable. For starting and idle (low RPM) there is less advance. At high speeds  spark advances for more lead time. Octane has nothing to do with any other property of gas. 87 octane and 91 octane from the same manufacturer have the same detergent and stabilization properties. They just burn at a different rate. Enfields generally run great on low octane fuel, especially in a relatively stock state of tune. Unless you you have a built, high compression engine, you shouldn't need premium. If you do, then most likely your timing is advanced for your engine.
     UncleErnie is right. Everyone has their pet oil belief. I, too,  am an oil snob. That being said, let me state: ANYTHING wet and slimy will work. To get better lubrication you first need to discuss viscosity. This is a measure of how fast the oil pours through a specific size hole at a specific temperature over a specific time. It is not a lubricity measure. Modern oils are the delivery medium for the additives. Viscosity tells you how it will distribute throughout the engine at different temperatures. Multi-viscosity oils have synthetic additives that activate under different pressures and temperatures so as to ensure circulation under a wider  variation of conditions than a single viscosity can manage. A 20W50 generally uses a 30W base, with an additive package to enable a portion of it to flow at the same rate as a 20W when cold, and as a 50W when warm. A 10 or 15W40 is usually a 20W base with the additive package.
     Now, once you have decided on the delivery package (viscosity) you have to determine other special needs of your engine. A modern engine with tight tolerances needs oil with the ability to flow in tiny spaces. This is usually accompanied by high oil pressures. Synthetics, with the property of being able to be precisely formulated, can be a real benefit in these conditions. Keep in mind, multi-viscosity oils, because of the synthetic additives , are  semi-synthetic, even if the base is petroleum. Looser, older style engines often do not utilize a lot of the properties of a full synthetic.
     Additionally, you should consider the transmission and clutch. In the new C5/G5 unit construction engines the oil must lubricate these also. Consider that in your car you use a different oil in your engine, transmission (think fiber clutch plates), and rear
end (think gears). Oils for unit construction engines accommodate all three conditions of use. In non-unit engines, particularly older style, lower oil pressure units, the same additives that cushion gears also cushion the greater tolerances.
     This is why I always recommend a premium, motorcycle specific oil. You can double the life of your engine, maybe more, with the right oil. Anything will work, but some work better than others. I never go cheap on oil. I even use these same oils in my truck and van.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 12:44:34 am by Vince »


REpozer

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Reply #10 on: February 12, 2010, 10:30:20 pm
Vince ,I dare you to cross this line...okay , your lucky I'm wearing my Sunday school cloths. ;)

OIL WAR!

I got a 92 Ford Tarus with over 185,000 miles on it. Used NAPA, Wal-Mart, and Advance Auto, Mobil ( petrol)....etc . NEVER had any oil related problems in the engine ..but regular changes.This car is operated in the schedule " B" part of the preventive table.
I know this is not a motorcycle, ( I was an advid user of Castrol 20w-50 back in the early 80's). But I lose no sleep at night doing what I do.

I see people put " the best  oil brand" in , and not keep up on shed maintenance. What good is that? But they sleep good at night knowing they spent a small fortune and have a garbage can of colorful oil bottles to prove they did the "right thing".,as seen on TV.

My faverite snake oil is the 'High Milage", ....Somebody is laughing all the way to bank on that stuff.

Moral of the story is, if you are going to lose sleep at night by using oil that comes from a "gray bottle", then by all means , purchase the oil that comes packaged in the pretty colors you see on the side of a NASCAR and sleep better.

Thanks for the rant.
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ScooterBob

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Reply #11 on: February 12, 2010, 10:55:36 pm
Vince ,I dare you to cross this line...okay , your lucky I'm wearing my Sunday school cloths. ;)

OIL WAR!

I got a 92 Ford Tarus with over 185,000 miles on it. Used NAPA, Wal-Mart, and Advance Auto, Mobil ( petrol)....etc . NEVER had any oil related problems in the engine ..but regular changes.This car is operated in the schedule " B" part of the preventive table.
I know this is not a motorcycle, ( I was an advid user of Castrol 20w-50 back in the early 80's). But I lose no sleep at night doing what I do.

I see people put " the best  oil brand" in , and not keep up on shed maintenance. What good is that? But they sleep good at night knowing they spent a small fortune and have a garbage can of colorful oil bottles to prove they did the "right thing".,as seen on TV.

My faverite snake oil is the 'High Milage", ....Somebody is laughing all the way to bank on that stuff.

Moral of the story is, if you are going to lose sleep at night by using oil that comes from a "gray bottle", then by all means , purchase the oil that comes packaged in the pretty colors you see on the side of a NASCAR and sleep better.

Thanks for the rant.

F@#K Yeah!! Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!! Reminds me of the fellow that I worked with in the Porsche garage - He bought a new 1965 Ford Galaxie with the old FE352 in it. He never - I repeat NEVER put any new oil in the car - ever .... He used "clean" take out oil from any heep that was in the shop that had "good" oil that came out of it. He also used the best quality rinsed out oil filters. The wreck was twenty years old at the time and had about a quarter million miles on it and it had never been apart and ran well - no knocks, no smoke and no leaks ..... Must just be a FORD thing, right? Sorry - HAD to add to the rant - Heeheehee!!  ::)
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REpozer

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Reply #12 on: February 12, 2010, 11:12:40 pm
Truth be told , If I ran a motorcycle service shop ,I would  have some kind of premium motorcycle oil for use and sale.

A few years back I worked at a Chrysler dealership. The Mopar oil change was really bulk motor oil that sold by the gallon to the shop, and delivered off a pump truck into a 500-1000 gallon holding tank at the shop.Same with the ATF. That shop also serviced  with recycled anti freeze ( I didn't agree with that and other things )

Many old timers, brought their Chrysler in to get "factory oil" at the lube station.What a joke.I think the bulk oil was Quaker State. Next purchase , who knows.
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Vince

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Reply #13 on: February 12, 2010, 11:14:58 pm
       Geez, Louise. What part of "ANYTHING wet and slimy will work" wasn't clear? I's like the difference between Ugly Betty and Sandra Bullock. They are both wet and slimy. They both will work. You can have Betty. I'll take Sandra.
     So there!


REpozer

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Reply #14 on: February 12, 2010, 11:22:00 pm
I think Betty is Sandra's sister without the drama. Thanks. :) :
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REpozer

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Reply #15 on: February 13, 2010, 03:06:01 am
Vince , you and Sandra wanna go on a double date with me and Betty?
We can split the cost of a pizza. Our dates might enjoy a RE ride too.
 I like the way you think.
With your brains and my good looks we could corner the market.
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UncleErnie

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Reply #16 on: February 13, 2010, 04:31:16 am
I missed something.
What was it you're backing into a corner?
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Vince

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Reply #17 on: February 13, 2010, 04:47:41 pm
Vince , you and Sandra wanna go on a double date with me and Betty?
We can split the cost of a pizza. Our dates might enjoy a RE ride too.
 I like the way you think.
With your brains and my good looks we could corner the market.
     Great! YOU get to clear this with our wives. While you are doing that I will put on my bullet proof vest.


ScooterBob

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Reply #18 on: February 13, 2010, 04:49:21 pm
      Geez, Louise. What part of "ANYTHING wet and slimy will work" wasn't clear? I's like the difference between Ugly Betty and Sandra Bullock. They are both wet and slimy. They both will work. You can have Betty. I'll take Sandra.
     So there!

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REpozer

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Reply #19 on: February 13, 2010, 06:37:17 pm
     Great! YOU get to clear this with our wives. While you are doing that I will put on my bullet proof vest.
Ya know Vince, there you go again with some good brain work.
Its probably time to ask these two wonderful ladies( Sandra & Betty) to politely leave.I certainly don't want any trouble with your wife or mine.Thanks again.
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REpozer

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Reply #20 on: February 19, 2010, 11:05:08 pm
I did my part too  :o
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 05:28:10 am by REpozer »
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ERC

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Reply #21 on: February 19, 2010, 11:12:29 pm
I knew Sesuna would be here. He or she must be bored. ERC   :'(
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ERC

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Reply #22 on: February 20, 2010, 12:59:35 am
Admin removed Sesuna thanks. ERC
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Ice

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Reply #23 on: February 20, 2010, 03:50:00 pm
Gasolines in the U.S. are a pandoras box of chemical additives, fillers and extenders.

 I am not talking about detergents here. That is a subject for different time,only about reformulates.
 
In the early 1990's The EPA mandated that our motor fuels be reformulated.

 This is done by adding substances that dilute the gas so there is less of it on one gallon. The other part of the equation is altering the chemistry of the fuel by adding various substances to affect what comes out the tailpipe

 The chemicals used to oxygenate gasoline all have their own vaporization rates and burning charachteristics. Last time I checked there were no fewer than fourteen different chemichals in countless combinations being used to reformulate our motor fuel.
 When the mandate was phased in, some of the chemical combinations did not play well with the rubber and sealant compounds used in automotive fuel systems at the time.

 I suspect that the reformulates or combinations thereof used in lower octane
gasolines are just not capable of producing the qualities required to achieve 91 octane.

 Some of them still do not play well with non computer managed or carburetted engines.

 I have seven low and mid compression carburetted engines in my stable.

Understand that they make no more power nor go any faster when run on premium.

But they all do start easier idle better and run smoother when run on premium as compared to regular.

 I have not and will not tune them specifically for premium as I require them to be able to run on whatever gasoline is available in a pinch or should push come to shove.

 
,,,,FWIW.
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REpozer

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Reply #24 on: February 21, 2010, 05:26:41 am
I'll clean up too. ;)
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Ice

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Reply #25 on: March 07, 2010, 05:34:42 am
 I have been running mid grade for two weeks now. Ten cents per gallon cheaper and no ill effects.
 
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UncleErnie

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Reply #26 on: March 07, 2010, 02:43:21 pm
Speaking of cheaper- you all may be quite surprised at how much your gas station is charging you to use a credit card.   Quite a bit cheaper to pay cash.
Run what ya brung


Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Reply #27 on: March 07, 2010, 03:39:33 pm
Ernie, Ernie, Ernie, what am I going to do with you? How do you figure the stations charge more if you don't pay cash?
Sure, if you go to the Enmark station and pay cash for their weasel pi$$ you save a whole 3 cents a gallon, and if you go into Ingles and stand in line and get a gift card, you will save 3 cents a gallon.
All top tier stations in our area have one price posted, and don't vary it for cash or charge.
Now, Uncle Ernie, grab yourself a piece of paper and a crayon, and try to follow this. I'll go slow for you:
The stations in our area are running 5 cents a gallon less for the unbranded than the Top Tier. I am using Texaco, which in our area is 100% gas, no ethanol. I have documented 10% better gas mileage than with the E10. In addition, i use my Chase card, which I pay off every month, and get a 3% rebate. At $2.76 a gallon, 10% better mileage, 3% rebate,  I figure i am spending the equivelant of 36+ cents a gallon less than your cash purchase at the cheap station.






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UncleErnie

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Reply #28 on: March 07, 2010, 04:48:40 pm
Whoa... all those words make me kind of dizzy.

PB on Patton Ave;  Regular is posted on the sign.  I put in my card and press "87" and a different price comes up.  I go in the station and ask what's up.  He tells me they charge 8cents more for credit cards, and the price published is for cash.  Turns out several other gas stations are pulling this little scam.

Maybe they don't do this in Oldpeopleville.  I hear the gas stations down there are special.
Run what ya brung


Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Reply #29 on: March 07, 2010, 05:04:29 pm
Ah, that's right, you are in Waste Asheville. I think the lib tree huggers there charge the extra 8 cents to save the whale or something
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UncleErnie

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Reply #30 on: March 07, 2010, 09:18:36 pm
Speaking of blubber- have'nt caught you spying on  me lately. 
me and Earl went for a little ride today.  Probably still too cold for you...

Having fun, wish you were here.
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Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Reply #31 on: March 07, 2010, 10:28:24 pm
I waved when I went over. Didn't you hear the tomatoes hit the roof?
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Rick O'Shea

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Reply #32 on: March 08, 2010, 12:14:47 am
IN thisssssss corneeeeer; weighing in at ..............
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Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Reply #33 on: March 08, 2010, 12:22:22 am
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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UncleErnie

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Reply #34 on: March 08, 2010, 01:41:20 am
MISTER O'Shea, I've asked 37 questions via e-mail and you haven't said anything.   
Signed, Curious


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